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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: calfzilla on February 20, 2011, 02:13:38 AM
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I'm interested in doing some bench press competitions but I also want to get big. Will training my chest for strength hinder my progress for size?
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no after a few years of training you should train only for strength to get most out of your chest development.
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I'm interested in doing some bench press competitions but I also want to get big. Will training my chest for strength hinder my progress for size?
email me I can get you pointed in the right direction ~
bigbadwolfe900@yahoo.com
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email me I can get you pointed in the right direction ~
bigbadwolfe900@yahoo.com
schmoe alert
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Strength=size, a stronger muscle IS a bigger muscle 8) Do you plan to compete with a bench shirt or to do it raw? Also, what weight class do you plan to be competing in?
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all depends on your genetics
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Strength=size, a stronger muscle IS a bigger muscle 8) Do you plan to compete with a bench shirt or to do it raw? Also, what weight class do you plan to be competing in?
x2.. was just going to write the exact same thing!!..
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email me I can get you pointed in the right direction ~
bigbadwolfe900@yahoo.com
Hey there skinny. what are you weighing these days?
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Hey there skinny. what are you weighing these days?
Ohh you know I'm weighing about "FAT" hahahah!!!! I'm doing the IPA Unity meet in 2 weeks so I'm sitting about 330 back up from 253 2 summers ago and 280 this past summer. Goin at this shit totally 100% clean so got the BW back up a little should hit high 7's at this meet. Far dry from the 900 area I was at 3 yrs ago but hey it is what it is.
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Ohh you know I'm weighing about "FAT" hahahah!!!! I'm doing the IPA Unity meet in 2 weeks so I'm sitting about 330 back up from 253 2 summers ago and 280 this past summer. Goin at this shit totally 100% clean so got the BW back up a little should hit high 7's at this meet. Far dry from the 900 area I was at 3 yrs ago but hey it is what it is.
What gear do you use?
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schmoe alert
Not a Schmoe Tito just an old beat up semi retired pro bench presser who loves to help people get involved in the sport I love.
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What gear do you use?
gear as in Bench Shirts or as in vitamins :)
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gear as in Bench Shirts or as in vitamins :)
As in bench shirt, single double, quadruple denim kevlar reinforced lead rubber band shirt?
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wolfe -
how many lbs will a single ply add to a press? i know there are a million thoughts on this. just wondering yours.
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As in bench shirt, single double, quadruple denim kevlar reinforced lead rubber band shirt?
Double ply Rage X
open back with a 1.5 inch scoop on the collar nothing to fancy and crazy whacked.
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wolfe -
how many lbs will a single ply add to a press? i know there are a million thoughts on this. just wondering yours.
I know guys who have gotten 200 pounds out of a single ply. It will all depend on if it is open back or closed back if you got an open back you can Jack the shit out of them and get a really good pop. Most folks will get like a 100 pounds out of a good single ply though.
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Double ply Rage X
open back with a 1.5 inch scoop on the collar nothing to fancy and crazy whacked.
Whats the difference between open back and full shirt?
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1. Strength does not always = size. If it did bodybuilders would be benching 2000lbs
2. He's talking about a bench press contest. Its power, not strength. There's a big difference.
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1. Strength does not always = size. If it did bodybuilders would be benching 2000lbs
2. He's talking about a bench press contest. Its power, not strength. There's a big difference.
Coach, power meaning explosive strength? tell me more
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Whats the difference between open back and full shirt?
An open back shirt would be like putting a hospital gown on you just slide right into it a closed back you put on like a tee shirt overhead. Open backs can be jacked and pulled down more to give you a better pop of the bottom then a closed back shirt will.
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yo wolf can i email you about bench press training ?? you check pms?
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An open back shirt would be like putting a hospital gown on you just slide right into it a closed back you put on like a tee shirt overhead. Open backs can be jacked and pulled down more to give you a better pop of the bottom then a closed back shirt will.
I know a couple guys that use the full shirts so I was wondering the difference. So you get more out of an open back?
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yo wolf can i email you about bench press training ?? you check pms?
yeah feel free to email if ya wish or PM me either way is fine
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Ive only ever seen open back shirts on the huge strong fuckers (Wolfe)
edit: are they are only legal in multi-ply contests and do lighter divisions use them?
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I know a couple guys that use the full shirts so I was wondering the difference. So you get more out of an open back?
Yeah I will never use a closed back shirt again, to much of a pain to get on and off. The open back shirts will for sure give you a bigger pop out of the hole but lockouts will basicly be the same in both shirts.
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Yeah I will never use a closed back shirt again, to much of a pain to get on and off. The open back shirts will for sure give you a bigger pop out of the hole but lockouts will basicly be the same in both shirts.
Do you still end up with the red marks and bruises on your arms like the closed back shirts?
What do you hit raw vs shirted?
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Wolfe knows more about PW than me in reguards to using equipment (shirts, etc) but to mimmick that (almost) I will do a reverse band bench to help increase bench, along with chains, bands and boards.
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Yes prolly worse with the open backs cause you can pull them down more on the triceps to jack the shirt. My arms were pretty tore up today.
As far as right now I'm not sure what my raw max is I have literally become a Gear Whore and put my shirt on at 405 pounds. But I did do 405 for 10 reps raw about 4 weeks ago so thats the best I can tell ya.
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Ive only ever seen open back shirts on the huge strong fuckers (Wolfe)
edit: are they are only legal in multi-ply contests and do lighter divisions use them?
they have contest for single plys only but most of the mare single ply closed back contests. Most of your multi ply meets are gonna be guys wearing open back shirts.
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Hey coach, Just because "bodybuilders" aren't immensely strong DOES NOT disprove the theroy that strength=size. The absolute best proof of this theroy, is that if said bodybuilder has thicker pecs, delts, and tris, then he has made those muscles stronger. And if part of his training routine is training of a barbell bench press and his pecs, delts, and tris have got bigger and thicker in the process, then his barbell bench press WILL increase. FACT
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Hey coach, Just because "bodybuilders" aren't immensely strong DOES NOT disprove the theroy that strength=size. The absolute best proof of this theroy, is that if said bodybuilder has thicker pecs, delts, and tris, then he has made those muscles stronger. And if part of his training routine is training of a barbell bench press and his pecs, delts, and tris have got bigger and thicker in the process, then his barbell bench press WILL increase. FACT
that made NO sense. of course your going to add some size, but to say that size = strength (as you used in a blanket statement) is wrong. Jason Pegg squatted a legit 1000lbs and is no where near the size of a pro bodybuilder, or state level for that matter.
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Not a Schmoe Tito just an old beat up semi retired pro bench presser who loves to help people get involved in the sport I love.
just kidding big guy ;)
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that made NO sense. of course your going to add some size, but to say that size = strength (as you used in a blanket statement) is wrong. Jason Pegg squatted a legit 1000lbs and is no where near the size of a pro bodybuilder, or state level for that matter.
no
size=strength
not strength=size.
if your big, then your strong. just because your strong doesnt mean yoru big.
btw, this hardly qualifies as a squat
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Powerlifting squats are ass and spinal erector dominate, quad involvement with a powerlifting style squat is nearly non-existant. FYI, Fred "Dr. Squat" Hatfield had pathetically weak quads, but his ass and lower back sure were damn strong ;D Put Pegg on some leg extensions and if he gets stronger and stronger on them, for example going from 150 pounds for 10 reps to 300 pounds for 20 reps, then I guaren-goddamn-tee that he will have MUCH BIGGER quads. Let me put it this way, if he could add 150 pounds on his leg extensions for the same number of reps, say 10 for example, then his quads will be MUCH LARGER.
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I can't post from my computer because of this site being contaminated, I can't see the youtube link but if its of Pegg, its a legit squat. Second, you two....BOTH of you need to learn the difference between power and strength. Start with that. When I read comments like this, I have to actually take it with a grain of salt knowing that your scope of knowledge is limited. After you're the one who thinks a calorie is a calorie no matter who disproves it and the source the proof came from.
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There is a very real correlation between size and strength, in any one particular lifter! If you say, "so and so is much smaller than me yet can lift more", then you haven't thought things through.
And if someone says he doesn't think strength and size go hand in hand then he isn't being honest, or hasn't thought things through. Every bodybuilder takes strength increase as a sign of growth and progress. Say you go in and do 30 reps on the leg extension with 150lbs to failure yet last workout you did 180lbs for the same amount of reps, do you take that as a positive or negative sign? Negative of course. But if you do 200lbs for 30 you know you are doing something right. Right?!
Those westsiders "squatting" huge weights have big guts, big glutes, big erectors, because that's the muscles they use in the lift! They have small quads because they are hardly used. Many pro bodybuilders would kill those guys on Olympic squats or hack-squats. And guess what, the bbers have bigger quads. ;) :D
It's scientifically proven that the cross-sectional area of a muscle is directly related to it's strength. I don't even know why this is debated. Well I do know actually, it's because of misunderstanding the terms in the discussion. People don't understand what the other really means.
An personal example. Bodybuilder I train often squats with a powerlifter. Powerlifter max squats 300lbs more than the bb, in a suit. Even if bb puts on the suit the PLer would still squat 300lbs more since the bb doesn't know how to use the suit. Bodybuilder kills the PLer on narrow stance Olympic squats without gear. Guess who has bigger quads?
Powerlifting involves a lot more than muscular strength. Mainly technique and "angles" due to structure. Doesn't change the fact that a bigger muscle is a stronger muscle all other factors being the same.
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But I did do 405 for 10 reps raw about 4 weeks ago so thats the best I can tell ya.
Bob Chicherillo used to do 20 reps with 405. Fantastic, huh? A guy more concerned with his hair than his bench press numbers. :D
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There is a very real correlation between size and strength, in any one particular lifter! If you say, "so and so is much smaller than me yet can lift more", then you haven't thought things through.
And if someone says he doesn't think strength and size go hand in hand then he isn't being honest, or hasn't thought things through. Every bodybuilder takes strength increase as a sign of growth and progress. Say you go in and do 30 reps on the leg extension with 150lbs to failure yet last workout you did 180lbs for the same amount of reps, do you take that as a positive or negative sign? Negative of course. But if you do 200lbs for 30 you know you are doing something right. Right?!
Those westsiders "squatting" huge weights have big guts, big glutes, big erectors, because that's the muscles they use in the lift! They have small quads because they are hardly used. Many pro bodybuilders would kill those guys on Olympic squats or hack-squats. And guess what, the bbers have bigger quads. ;) :D
It's scientifically proven that the cross-sectional area of a muscle is directly related to it's strength. I don't even know why this is debated. Well I do know actually, it's because of misunderstanding the terms in the discussion. People don't understand what the other really means.
An personal example. Bodybuilder I train often squats with a powerlifter. Powerlifter max squats 300lbs more than the bb, in a suit. Even if bb puts on the suit the PLer would still squat 300lbs more since the bb doesn't know how to use the suit. Bodybuilder kills the PLer on narrow stance Olympic squats without gear. Guess who has bigger quads?
Powerlifting involves a lot more than muscular strength. Mainly technique and "angles" due to structure. Doesn't change the fact that a bigger muscle is a stronger muscle all other factors being the same.
its about damn time you came back to your senses van! ;D
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btw, in that video of pegg squatting, how fucking annoying is some dumb fuck yelling at you trying to make his voice sound deep and manly when you trying to lift? man i cant stand that shit
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Thanks Van, that's exactly what I've been saying all along, but you are able to say it much more elequently than I ;)
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Van, all that means is bob was better conditioned for muscular endurance, far and away from power. Go to a 1RM. Again, I'm referring to power.
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The Coach is all talk but no proof. Probably sells used cars for a living.
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The Coach is all talk but no proof. Probably sells used cars for a living.
Great, another stalker. How much proof would you like? Clinical studies?
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Van, all that means is bob was better conditioned for muscular endurance, far and away from power. Go to a 1RM. Again, I'm referring to power.
Any guy benching 405 for 20 is plenty powerful and strong as all hell. Maybe his transfer to singles, percentage-wise, isn't as impressive as a top powerlifters but there's lots of power there, it's not just muscular endurance. That's if the story is even true, which I doubt. :D
And lots of powerlifters do the "repetition method" regularly.
Chicherillo can count himself among powerlifting royalty. :D
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Great, another stalker. How much proof would you like? Clinical studies?
Lol, quit acting like you've proved any of your lifts, the Hobbit. You just come on here and make claims you never back up.
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There is a very real correlation between size and strength, in any one particular lifter! If you say, "so and so is much smaller than me yet can lift more", then you haven't thought things through.
And if someone says he doesn't think strength and size go hand in hand then he isn't being honest, or hasn't thought things through. Every bodybuilder takes strength increase as a sign of growth and progress. Say you go in and do 30 reps on the leg extension with 150lbs to failure yet last workout you did 180lbs for the same amount of reps, do you take that as a positive or negative sign? Negative of course. But if you do 200lbs for 30 you know you are doing something right. Right?!
Those westsiders "squatting" huge weights have big guts, big glutes, big erectors, because that's the muscles they use in the lift! They have small quads because they are hardly used. Many pro bodybuilders would kill those guys on Olympic squats or hack-squats. And guess what, the bbers have bigger quads. ;) :D
It's scientifically proven that the cross-sectional area of a muscle is directly related to it's strength. I don't even know why this is debated. Well I do know actually, it's because of misunderstanding the terms in the discussion. People don't understand what the other really means.
An personal example. Bodybuilder I train often squats with a powerlifter. Powerlifter max squats 300lbs more than the bb, in a suit. Even if bb puts on the suit the PLer would still squat 300lbs more since the bb doesn't know how to use the suit. Bodybuilder kills the PLer on narrow stance Olympic squats without gear. Guess who has bigger quads?
Powerlifting involves a lot more than muscular strength. Mainly technique and "angles" due to structure. Doesn't change the fact that a bigger muscle is a stronger muscle all other factors being the same.
I never doubted the correlation between size and strength, that's not what I was debating.
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Lol, quit acting like you've proved any of your lifts, the Hobbit. You just come on here and make claims you never back up.
Shut up stupid, there are adults talking.
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I never doubted the correlation between size and strength, that's not what I was debating.
Yeah these discussion always get muddled because people are discussing different things and keep misunderstanding eachother. :D
Anyway, big bodybuilders are very strong and very powerful, a lot of times muscularly stronger and even more powerful than top powerlifters. It's just that powerlifting, moving a weight from A to B, involves a lot more than muscular strength and power. It's angles, it's structure, it's technique, it's attitude.
But on a very basic level size = strength. :D
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Shut up stupid, there are adults talking.
Lol, neither your stature nor intellect would cause anyone to mistake you for an adult.
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If one can make a bigger arch, then that will cut down the vertical distance that the bar must be moved in a bp, therefore allowing one to lift greater poundages without necessarily increasing their actual strength. Less distance that the bar must be pressed equals greater the weight that can be pressed.
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A 114 pound powerlifter who squats 455 and benches 315,still only weighs 114 pounds!!!!
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I remember seeing Kara Bohegian at a bench contest put up 402 @ 148. Granted it was shirted but still.
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If one can make a bigger arch, then that will cut down the vertical distance that the bar must be moved in a bp, therefore allowing one to lift greater poundages without necessarily increasing their actual strength. Less distance that the bar must be pressed equals greater the weight that can be pressed.
What you said is true. The further the weight is pushed the more work it takes. What I mean by that is that I'm a fairly skinny guy at 5'8" 175. I have always noticed that big fat guys or just big guys in general don't have to push the weight that far off their chest. I noticed that on a hammer strength bench machine where every one has the same starting point I was able to out "bench" the big benchers cause now the field was a little more level.
There is a big difference between two guys benching 300lbs when one pushes it 24 " to lock out and another is pushing it 15 inches from chest to lockout.
I hate what powerlifting has become with the lifitng suits and incredible high squats. There are guys that are squatting 800lbs with a suit and a shallow squat that couldn't jump up and touch a basketball rim because their legs aren't really that strong.
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A 114 pound powerlifter who squats 455 and benches 315,still only weighs 114 pounds!!!!
brutal range of motion he must have. are we talkin about that one famous midget who competes in PL?
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brutal range of motion he must have. are we talkin about that one famous midget who competes in PL?
The Coach does not compete in PL.
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The Coach does not compete in PL.
;D
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Yeah these discussion always get muddled because people are discussing different things and keep misunderstanding eachother. :D
Anyway, big bodybuilders are very strong and very powerful, a lot of times muscularly stronger and even more powerful than top powerlifters. It's just that powerlifting, moving a weight from A to B, involves a lot more than muscular strength and power. It's angles, it's structure, it's technique, it's attitude.
But on a very basic level size = strength. :D
no these discussions always get muddled because idiots who dont know shit about getting big chime in with bullshit about how "weight doesnt matter", "the muscle cant tell how much weight its lifting, just when it fails", "the key to getting big is hard work to failure" blah blah blah blah blah
NO
and we must come to a solid agreement on this so we can start spreading the truth ont his board and others... like gh15was at first confronted with so many detractors untill finally everyone saw the truth... we must do the same for training. yes, drugs are absolutely essential, yes some guys with insane genetics and lots of durgs can get huge by pumping their muscles, BUT anyone who is big is strong, and you have to be strong before you can be big, and thus the way to get big (if your not a guy with insane genetics and a ton of gear) is to POWERLIFT with bodybuilding form untill youve got beastly strength, then you can work on adding reps and sets.
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no these discussions always get muddled because idiots who dont know shit about getting big chime in with bullshit about how "weight doesnt matter", "the muscle cant tell how much weight its lifting, just when it fails", "the key to getting big is hard work to failure" blah blah blah blah blah
NO
and we must come to a solid agreement on this so we can start spreading the truth ont his board and others... like gh15was at first confronted with so many detractors untill finally everyone saw the truth... we must do the same for training. yes, drugs are absolutely essential, yes some guys with insane genetics and lots of durgs can get huge by pumping their muscles, BUT anyone who is big is strong, and you have to be strong before you can be big, and thus the way to get big (if your not a guy with insane genetics and a ton of gear) is to POWERLIFT with bodybuilding form untill youve got beastly strength, then you can work on adding reps and sets.
It's kinda like arm wrestling...
I was at a bench-press-your-weight-for -reps contest with MIke Matarazzo years ago. It was never the "big" guys who won. IT was always someone who looked like he barely worked out.
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It's kinda like arm wrestling...
I was at a bench-press-your-weight-for -reps contest with MIke Matarazzo years ago. It was never the "big" guys who won. IT was always someone who looked like he barely worked out.
yes, we all know theres alot of small guys out there who are strong. guess what? that proves nothing! if they want to get bigger, they have to get stronger.
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When you are talking about power lifting there is also a strong neural component (recruiting all motor units, firing them all at max rates, antagonistic muscle activity) that comes with heavy training and also helps explain why some powerlifters aren't as big as some bodybuilders yet are much "stronger" (i.e. have bigger one-rep maxes). The size of a muscle defines its maximum isometric force capacity, but not how much force it actually generates. That is up to the nervous system (and a couple other things).
This is also why newbie lifters get stronger every workout even though they aren't getting any bigger. The nervous system adapts much faster than the muscular system.
Bodybuilders also pump all sorts of oils and fluids into their muscles so there's that too.
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no these discussions always get muddled because idiots who dont know shit about getting big chime in with bullshit
Says the guy that juiced for years to break the 200# barrier. ;)
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Says the guy that juiced for years to break the 200# barrier. ;)
Let's keep this positive okay. How is Chaos this afternoon/evening?
BE/STAY/ACT POSITIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Says the guy that juiced for years to break the 200# barrier. ;)
::) i was a leanish 185 before juicing, and have hovered between 220-250 since being on juice.
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Let's keep this positive okay. How is Chaos this afternoon/evening?
BE/STAY/ACT POSITIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Average. How are you tonight?
::) i was a leanish 185 before juicing, and have hovered between 220-250 since being on juice.
Then my statement was correct..... :)
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Average. How are you tonight?
Then my statement was correct..... :)
you said it took years of juice to break 200. incorrect.
if you were my height youd be 170, and your fat
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you said it took years of juice to break 200. incorrect.
if you were my height youd be 170, and your fat
LMFAO!! If I was your height? LOL, I'd have to shrink several inches.........and I haven't been 170 since 9th grade............LOL @ uppity midgets getting their gyno all ruffled over some juice remarks!!! ;D
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LMFAO!! If I was your height? LOL, I'd have to shrink several inches.........and I haven't been 170 since 9th grade............LOL @ uppity midgets getting their gyno all ruffled over some juice remarks!!! ;D
ROTFLMAO...hahahahahahah!
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LMFAO!! If I was your height? LOL, I'd have to shrink several inches.........and I haven't been 170 since 9th grade............LOL @ uppity midgets getting their gyno all ruffled over some juice remarks!!! ;D
exactly, you saying anyting about braking 200lbs is retarded, because at your height youd have to be 4% bodyfat to have even a remotely noticeable amount of muscle at 200lbs. for those of us who arent ogres, 200lbs at a decent bodyfat is actually a good, thick weight. notice you dont deny youd be 170 at my height. :) (btw in 9th grade i was 230 ;) )
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no these discussions always get muddled because idiots who dont know shit about getting big chime in with bullshit about how "weight doesnt matter", "the muscle cant tell how much weight its lifting, just when it fails", "the key to getting big is hard work to failure" blah blah blah blah blah
NO
and we must come to a solid agreement on this so we can start spreading the truth ont his board and others... like gh15was at first confronted with so many detractors untill finally everyone saw the truth... we must do the same for training. yes, drugs are absolutely essential, yes some guys with insane genetics and lots of durgs can get huge by pumping their muscles, BUT anyone who is big is strong, and you have to be strong before you can be big, and thus the way to get big (if your not a guy with insane genetics and a ton of gear) is to POWERLIFT with bodybuilding form untill youve got beastly strength, then you can work on adding reps and sets.
Seriously dude....don't even go there.
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::) i was a leanish 185 before juicing, and have hovered between 220-250 since being on juice.
lol someone please post that pic of the fatso riding the bicycle!!
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exactly, you saying anyting about braking 200lbs is retarded, because at your height youd have to be 4% bodyfat to have even a remotely noticeable amount of muscle at 200lbs. for those of us who arent ogres, 200lbs at a decent bodyfat is actually a good, thick weight. notice you dont deny youd be 170 at my height. :) (btw in 9th grade i was 230 ;) )
Honestly, at my leanest I fluctuated between 217-220 lbs......I was obsessed with bbing and I was extremely lean......at that weight I looked like a fucking stick, big fuckin deal, I had abs...whoopty doo!!! So at 200lbs, I looked like I was dying......I have huge joints so it takes more mass to fill up the space.....if that makes sense.....my wrists are 8 1/2". ;)
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lol someone please post that pic of the fatso riding the bicycle!!
lol
heres you
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=363181.0;attach=398952;image)
heres me
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lol
heres you
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=363181.0;attach=398952;image)
heres me
at zero juice, and thats a waist you could only dream about you flaming obese faggotsexual
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Any guy benching 405 for 20 is plenty powerful and strong as all hell. Maybe his transfer to singles, percentage-wise, isn't as impressive as a top powerlifters but there's lots of power there, it's not just muscular endurance. That's if the story is even true, which I doubt. :D
And lots of powerlifters do the "repetition method" regularly.
Chicherillo can count himself among powerlifting royalty. :D
Van both of those guys are World Record holders in the bench press. The first one Jeremy Hoornstra is one of the best all time Raw benchers ever. Has a high 600 raw bench and broke a 20 some year old record back in 06 at the New England Record Breakers meets. He did 635 in the 242 class in a tee shirt.
The other guy Ryan Kennelly is the Biggest all time shirted bencher in the world with a 1080 shirted bench in contest and a 675 bench in a tee shirt in a contest. Both very very strong guys.
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Van both of those guys are World Record holders in the bench press. The first one Jeremy Hoornstra is one of the best all time Raw benchers ever. Has a high 600 raw bench and broke a 20 some year old record back in 06 at the New England Record Breakers meets. He did 635 in the 242 class in a tee shirt.
The other guy Ryan Kennelly is the Biggest all time shirted bencher in the world with a 1080 shirted bench in contest and a 675 bench in a tee shirt in a contest. Both very very strong guys.
I think you need to go back and read the thread........he makes the statement that Chick had claimed to bench 405X20 and he was comparing him to the best benchers in the world. ;)
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If one can make a bigger arch, then that will cut down the vertical distance that the bar must be moved in a bp, therefore allowing one to lift greater poundages without necessarily increasing their actual strength. Less distance that the bar must be pressed equals greater the weight that can be pressed.
I totally agree here. I will arch like a mofo and stick my belly out as far as I can to cut the distance. The shortest distance between point A to point B is what I shoot for.
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I think you need to go back and read the thread........he makes the statement that Chick had claimed to bench 405X20 and he was comparing him to the best benchers in the world. ;)
Yep my Bad see that now!!! I thought he was talkn about those two not having a transfer to singles.
Sorry Van :(
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Yep my Bad see that now!!! I thought he was talkn about those two not having a transfer to singles.
Sorry Van :(
Van is a pretty knowledgeable guy.