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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: theworm on March 04, 2011, 05:59:20 AM

Title: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: theworm on March 04, 2011, 05:59:20 AM
Question for GH15,

In terms of european vs american BBs (more gym rats and amateurs), someone on another board said europeans rely more on deca (even high dose deca only) cycles whereas more americans rely more on test as evident by this board.

Any credence to this?  I have heard this several times now from several people and several forums...
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: Anglo on March 04, 2011, 11:52:11 AM
 USA USA
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: Meso_z on March 04, 2011, 11:58:48 AM
IMO, it all started when internet experts, gurus and broscientists started suggesting a '2:1' ratio of test/deca.
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: Stavios on March 04, 2011, 12:02:36 PM
IMO, it all started when internet experts, gurus and broscientists started suggesting a '2:1' ratio of test/deca.
Bump !
I myself am a bro scientist and contributed to that for a while  8)
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: lesaucer on March 04, 2011, 12:07:05 PM
IMO, it all started when internet experts, gurus and broscientists started suggesting a '2:1' ratio of test/deca.

its totally retarded
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: Meso_z on March 04, 2011, 12:09:32 PM
Bump !
I myself am a bro scientist and contributed to that for a while  8)
;D
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: smoothasf on March 04, 2011, 12:17:26 PM
Shit I still think that's right
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: lesaucer on March 04, 2011, 12:22:19 PM
the true ratio is 2:1  Tren/other anabolics  ;D
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: Meso_z on March 04, 2011, 12:23:10 PM
When i took deca for the first time i was expecting the "deca dick" everyone was talking about...acne and stuff like that. I took it (with test)...my skin cleared and my sex drive was high.
Im talking 2 yrs ago.
Title: Re: gh15's professional opinion on musclecenter
Post by: Jack T. Cross on March 04, 2011, 02:47:39 PM
There was a thread asking gh15 about musclecenter, the well-built and near-60 Taiwanese bodybuilder, and whether it would appear that musclecenter is in fact dabbling with the very drugs he's supposedly against.  

It was an excellent topic for the opinion page here, and I wonder why it is gone.  I hope you're not SO sensitive, musclecenter, that you'd demand it be deleted.  Why not take a lesson from Bob Chick, and fight the people you disagree with (so to speak), instead of running from the issue?
Title: Re: gh15's professional opinion on musclecenter
Post by: WillGrant on March 04, 2011, 02:50:10 PM
Not natural
Title: Re: gh15's professional opinion on musclecenter
Post by: Jack T. Cross on March 04, 2011, 02:56:09 PM
Not natural

Agreed.  We share the same opinion here, on the ol' Gossip and Opinion page.
Title: Re: gh15's professional opinion on musclecenter
Post by: MONSTER_TRICEPS on March 04, 2011, 03:01:22 PM
I like to dissect girls. Did you know I'm utterly insane?
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: local hero on March 04, 2011, 03:30:51 PM
decca is vastly underated on these boards for some reason,,, great drug, fuck equipona, deccas the real deal..
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: Omega on March 04, 2011, 03:40:19 PM
decca is vastly underated on these boards for some reason,,, great drug, fuck equipona, deccas the real deal..

As Boressen said if he had to chose one steroid if he was on a desert island it would be deca.
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: Stavios on March 04, 2011, 03:45:25 PM
i'll try high doses deca for my off-season
Title: Re: gh15's professional opinion on musclecenter
Post by: kevinf on March 04, 2011, 04:38:00 PM
muscle centers is not natural. he just takes less than 1g total of hormones..which is natural nowdays
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: theworm on March 04, 2011, 05:31:25 PM
in the past, i did deca at 400mg a week and test at 200, and it was a great cycle.  no deca dick, no sides, really loved it.
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: Meso_z on March 05, 2011, 12:28:20 AM
i'll try high doses deca for my off-season
deca dick!!! deca dick!!! omg,,,,, omg!!!!!

Quick pct!!! i tell you pct!!! lol  ;D
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: g101 on March 05, 2011, 12:47:58 AM
loool deca dick thats all bs

i did a deca + tren cycle with no libido problems and they are apparently the "worst" for libido  ::)
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: dustin on March 05, 2011, 01:33:13 AM
If 19-nor dick really does exist it's nothing a little Aspirin, Brazilian whores and Jamaican food can't cure... best to take mutation doses of GHona too, for epic leans. 8) 8)
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: bladerunner on March 05, 2011, 01:57:20 AM
When i took deca for the first time i was expecting the "deca dick" everyone was talking about...acne and stuff like that. I took it (with test)...my skin cleared and my sex drive was high.
Im talking 2 yrs ago.

im on 500mgs of deca a week+100mgs of drol x day(no test)..i have no deca dick,no acne,no water retention,nothing..so far,so good :)
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: Meso_z on March 05, 2011, 02:24:13 AM
im on 500mgs of deca a week+100mgs of drol x day(no test)..i have no deca dick,no acne,no water retention,nothing..so far,so good :)
why do you have my avatar bro? thats creepy. ;D
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: DK II on March 05, 2011, 02:27:02 AM
why do you have my avatar bro? thats creepy. ;D

yeah i was confused as well.
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: Meso_z on March 05, 2011, 02:32:11 AM
yeah i was confused as well.
wtf??
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: Schmoe Buster on March 05, 2011, 02:34:20 AM
1 gram of Deca, Anadrol, just added Tren, plus all i can inject hghona buffet, no libido problems, Deca is a great mass builder, especially off season, contest prep follow gh15 tren,eq,mast, combo ;)
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: Schmoe Buster on March 05, 2011, 02:39:12 AM
why do you have my avatar bro? thats creepy. ;D

He stole my cycle too, obviously a schmoe and a queer ;D
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: DK II on March 05, 2011, 02:42:14 AM
He stole my cycle too, obviously a schmoe and a queer ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: Meso_z on March 05, 2011, 02:59:20 AM
He stole my cycle too, obviously a schmoe and a queer ;D
:-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-\ :-\ :-\
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: theworm on March 05, 2011, 05:25:33 AM
im on 500mgs of deca a week+100mgs of drol x day(no test)..i have no deca dick,no acne,no water retention,nothing..so far,so good :)

just curious, why no test?

I do not use a lot of test cause i am concerned about the sides (hair loss, acne, etc)...    glad to see others doing low to no test and doing great.   
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: Luolamies on March 05, 2011, 06:01:17 AM
im on 500mgs of deca a week+100mgs of drol x day(no test)..i have no deca dick,no acne,no water retention,nothing..so far,so good :)

How long are you going to run this for?
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: bladerunner on March 05, 2011, 06:10:00 AM
How long are you going to run this for?

been on for 2 weeks now..going for 12,so another 10 left:)
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: bladerunner on March 05, 2011, 06:11:11 AM
why do you have my avatar bro? thats creepy. ;D

actually i had this one when you still had Al Pacino's..so i guess i got here 1st ;D ;D
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: bladerunner on March 05, 2011, 06:11:58 AM
He stole my cycle too, obviously a schmoe and a queer ;D
LOOL..
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: bladerunner on March 05, 2011, 06:12:49 AM
yeah i was confused as well.

confused??about what?? :P
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: Meso_z on March 05, 2011, 06:13:02 AM
actually i had this one when you still had Al Pacino's..so i guess i got here 1st ;D ;D
lol i didnt notice that! :D
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: Luolamies on March 05, 2011, 06:14:12 AM
been on for 2 weeks now..going for 12,so another 10 left:)

So you are running 100 mg of Anadrol ed for 12-weeks?

Aren't you worried about any liver issues?
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: DK II on March 05, 2011, 06:15:07 AM
confused??about what?? :P

That Meso threw the Test out.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: Schmoe Buster on March 05, 2011, 06:16:11 AM
So you are running 100 mg of Anadrol ed for 12-weeks?

Aren't you worried about any liver issues?

Ive been on Anadrol for 40 days straight at 100mg per day, liver feels fine, drink lots of water and hope for the best ;D great gains in the gym though ;)
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: bladerunner on March 05, 2011, 06:16:31 AM
just curious, why no test?

I do not use a lot of test cause i am concerned about the sides (hair loss, acne, etc)...    glad to see others doing low to no test and doing great.   

i am actually following Buselmo's and van Bilderass suggestion.and it seems it's working great..
last year i did 500mg test e+250mgs deca x week and i got water retention,now im totally fine..im gonna up the dose to 750mgs deca soon..
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: bladerunner on March 05, 2011, 06:17:43 AM
So you are running 100 mg of Anadrol ed for 12-weeks?

Aren't you worried about any liver issues?
im gonna run drol for 8 weeks only
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: bladerunner on March 05, 2011, 06:18:49 AM
That Meso threw the Test out.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

i feel ya ;D ;D
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: Schmoe Buster on March 05, 2011, 06:19:25 AM
im gonna run drol for 8 weeks only

A real man would run it for 12
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: bladerunner on March 05, 2011, 06:20:08 AM
A real man would run it for 12

is that a challenge??
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: bladerunner on March 05, 2011, 06:21:10 AM
lol i didnt notice that! :D

you changed your avatar...this one looks like he can teach a pose or 1 to Kai ;D
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: Luolamies on March 05, 2011, 06:21:42 AM
Ive been on Anadrol for 40 days straight at 100mg per day, liver feels fine, drink lots of water and hope for the best ;D great gains in the gym though ;)

How's your blood pressure?

im gonna run drol for 8 weeks only

Ok, that's still a bit long, but most def. wont kill you, after you drop the a-bombs are you going to replace them with anything?
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: Meso_z on March 05, 2011, 06:23:13 AM
A real man would run it for 12
couple shots of vodka every night would be appropriate too. good luck.  ;D
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: bladerunner on March 05, 2011, 06:24:53 AM
How's your blood pressure?

Ok, that's still a bit long, but most def. wont kill you, after you drop the a-bombs are you going to replace them with anything?

nope,im just gonna stay on deca and maybe a little tren if i have the chance to get myself some
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: bladerunner on March 05, 2011, 06:25:44 AM
couple shots of vodka every night would be appropriate too. good luck.  ;D

just so that the pills can go down smoother
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: Meso_z on March 05, 2011, 06:26:00 AM
nope,im just gonna stay on deca and maybe a little tren if i have the chance to get myself some
what are you running now?
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: bladerunner on March 05, 2011, 06:27:37 AM
what are you running now?

week 1-8 100mgs drol (5 on 2 off)
week 1-12 deca 500mgs (going up to 750 in a couple of weeks)
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: theworm on March 05, 2011, 06:27:51 AM
i am actually following Buselmo's and van Bilderass suggestion.and it seems it's working great..
last year i did 500mg test e+250mgs deca x week and i got water retention,now im totally fine..im gonna up the dose to 750mgs deca soon..


so no test based on someone's suggestion?

whats the reasoning behind it?
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: Schmoe Buster on March 05, 2011, 06:34:58 AM
How's your blood pressure?

Ok, that's still a bit long, but most def. wont kill you, after you drop the a-bombs are you going to replace them with anything?

blood pressure is ok, bit higher than normal of course ;D
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: bladerunner on March 05, 2011, 06:36:29 AM
so no test based on someone's suggestion?

whats the reasoning behind it?


the guys seem to know what they are talking about (for sure they are much more experienced than me),so why not taking their suggestion?
the androgenic/anabolic ratio of drol is better than test,so that should mean better results
quite a few ppl (including friends) are happy and report great results with no test based cycle...so i decided to give it a try
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: Schmoe Buster on March 05, 2011, 06:37:21 AM
couple shots of vodka every night would be appropriate too. good luck.  ;D

washing down a tab of drol with some vodka before the gym = great workout ;D
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: bladerunner on March 05, 2011, 06:38:39 AM
washing down a tab of drol with some vodka before the gym = great workout ;D

fantastic warm up,especially when the treadmills are full
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: DK II on March 05, 2011, 06:50:46 PM
washing down a tab of drol with some vodka before the gym = great workout ;D

Kevin Levrone suggests Jack Daniel's.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: Master Blaster on March 05, 2011, 08:37:36 PM

the guys seem to know what they are talking about (for sure they are much more experienced than me),so why not taking their suggestion?
the androgenic/anabolic ratio of drol is better than test,so that should mean better results
quite a few ppl (including friends) are happy and report great results with no test based cycle...so i decided to give it a try


I would be on 500 mg of test year round if I could. I thought doing anabolics was an excuse to also throw in some test and feel like the world is a happy, and wonderful place.  :)
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: bladerunner on March 06, 2011, 04:07:07 AM
Kevin Levrone suggests Jack Daniel's.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Maybe i could even try some Suntory ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: bladerunner on March 06, 2011, 04:08:47 AM
I would be on 500 mg of test year round if I could. I thought doing anabolics was an excuse to also throw in some test and feel like the world is a happy, and wonderful place.  :)

you might want some weed then ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: DK II on March 06, 2011, 04:19:07 AM
Maybe i could even try some Suntory ;D ;D ;D




Ah i just realized who you are.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


Damn it, i'm getting old...
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: Schmoe Buster on March 06, 2011, 04:32:32 AM



Ah i just realized who you are.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


Damn it, i'm getting old...

Some twink right?
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: DK II on March 06, 2011, 04:39:30 AM
Some twink right?


 :o :o :o :o



 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D



Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: bladerunner on March 06, 2011, 05:21:30 AM
Some twink right?

yep...just some twink i wuldnt pay attention to  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: Schmoe Buster on March 06, 2011, 05:31:21 AM
yep...just some twink i wuldnt pay attention to  ;D ;D ;D

So you are Mr Nippon?
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: bladerunner on March 06, 2011, 05:32:19 AM
So you are Mr Nippon?

nope..i am too tall for that
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: Schmoe Buster on March 06, 2011, 05:34:27 AM
nope..i am too tall for that

what you are saying is you are over 5 foot? ;D
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: DK II on March 06, 2011, 05:35:54 AM
nope..i am too tall for that

LOL, it's in the rule book, if you're taller than the Gold's Gym protein bar counter, you cannot become Mr Nippon.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: bladerunner on March 06, 2011, 05:37:57 AM
what you are saying is you are over 5 foot? ;D

just like DK mentioned,im taller than their protein counter and that disqualifies me to ever be Mr Nippon..

+Mr Nippon is only natural so definitely we are out of contest here;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: Schmoe Buster on March 06, 2011, 05:41:07 AM
just like DK mentioned,im taller than their protein counter and that disqualifies me to ever be Mr Nippon..

+Mr Nippon is only natural so definitely we are out of contest here;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Yes we are all dirty hormone using over 5 foot tall gaijin, may we burn in hell for not lying and pretending to be natural ::)
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: DK II on March 06, 2011, 05:46:56 AM
Yes we are all dirty hormone using over 5 foot tall gaijin, may we burn in hell for not lying and pretending to be natural ::)

Plus we will never understand japanese culture.  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: bladerunner on March 06, 2011, 05:49:11 AM
Plus we will never understand japanese culture.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

at times i doubt they understand it themselves..but they are very good at using it as an excuse to get away with a whole bunch of s... :( :( :(
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: bladerunner on March 06, 2011, 05:50:06 AM
Yes we are all dirty hormone using over 5 foot tall gaijin, may we burn in hell for not lying and pretending to be natural ::)

we shud start saying our prayers..
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: DK II on March 06, 2011, 05:56:36 AM
at times i doubt they understand it themselves..but they are very good at using it as an excuse to get away with a whole bunch of s... :( :( :(

Yes, i have met quite a few people that use it as an excuse for their own inability to understand other cultures as well.

But overall Japan's a good place.  ;D

Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: bladerunner on March 06, 2011, 06:01:39 AM
Yes, i have met quite a few people that use it as an excuse for their own inability to understand other cultures as well.

But overall Japan's a good place.  ;D



i totally agree
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: Krankenstein on March 06, 2011, 06:18:06 AM
When i took deca for the first time i was expecting the "deca dick" everyone was talking about...acne and stuff like that. I took it (with test)...my skin cleared and my sex drive was high.
Im talking 2 yrs ago.

Ok, so why is it now that I am on 100mg of cyp per week and breaking out like a mother fucker???  (only doing hrt prescribed by doc....not UG....am done with 'bodybuilding' pre se.  Used to be natural but as of a couple months ago I decided to go the hormone route)
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: Luolamies on March 06, 2011, 07:27:37 AM
Ok, so why is it now that I am on 100mg of cyp per week and breaking out like a mother fucker???  (only doing hrt prescribed by doc....not UG....am done with 'bodybuilding' pre se.  Used to be natural but as of a couple months ago I decided to go the hormone route)

EVERYONE reacts differently to steroids...

For example: dianabol 30 mg is absolutely the highest i can go these days, i'm usually on much lower  dosages, say 20 mg and i get the full look, BUT my blood pressure shoots up and i don't allways feel that good...

My training partner was on 80 mg for months and he didn't have ANY bp issues, but then again he didn't even fill out that well, so as far as steroids go, it's just a crap shoot...
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: Krankenstein on March 06, 2011, 11:05:21 AM
EVERYONE reacts differently to steroids...

For example: dianabol 30 mg is absolutely the highest i can go these days, i'm usually on much lower  dosages, say 20 mg and i get the full look, BUT my blood pressure shoots up and i don't allways feel that good...

My training partner was on 80 mg for months and he didn't have ANY bp issues, but then again he didn't even fill out that well, so as far as steroids go, it's just a crap shoot...

I have no other issues other than the breaking out.....really is fucking annoying.
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: lesaucer on March 06, 2011, 11:12:01 AM
Ok, so why is it now that I am on 100mg of cyp per week and breaking out like a mother fucker???  (only doing hrt prescribed by doc....not UG....am done with 'bodybuilding' pre se.  Used to be natural but as of a couple months ago I decided to go the hormone route)

weird, before i started the sauce i had some acne on shoulders and back all the time.. now i pump up 1500mg test+900mg deca+sdrol and only have like 2 little zits every month...kills the gym and feel like a god.  fuck the medias and their anti-steroids propaganda..
maybe check your estrogen level? if its too high its probably the reason for acne
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: Krankenstein on March 06, 2011, 12:38:55 PM
weird, before i started the sauce i had some acne on shoulders and back all the time.. now i pump up 1500mg test+900mg deca+sdrol and only have like 2 little zits every month...kills the gym and feel like a god.  fuck the medias and their anti-steroids propaganda..
maybe check your estrogen level? if its too high its probably the reason for acne

Thats what one HRT doc in florida told me.  He actually said that I should be doing 200mg/week with arimadex (25mg) EOD.  I dont know if he ever suggests stopping for a while...but thats the program (oh, and with hcg as well...not sure how much)
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: lesaucer on March 06, 2011, 12:46:22 PM
Thats what one HRT doc in florida told me.  He actually said that I should be doing 200mg/week with arimadex (25mg) EOD.  I dont know if he ever suggests stopping for a while...but thats the program (oh, and with hcg as well...not sure how much)

then im pretty sure its the hcg.. lots of guys say they get acne when they use it, logic too because it cause your test level to go up and down. while on test e your levels are pretty much all the time stable.. if I was you i would use hcg only like 2 weeks every 3 months to get the balls working again, also using nolva in that time as it stimulate them in another way too.. also depend if you want kids too, if you do you should stop all this shit.. me i dont so no worry about that.. then again guys like ronnie and levrone got kids after all the abuse so.. your choice
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: Van_Bilderass on March 06, 2011, 12:56:27 PM
then im pretty sure its the hcg.. l

He's not on HCG yet.

If I went on HRT I would probably do this. Don't know if this doc has further updated the protocol, but something like this. The low-dose HCG can actually stabilize T levels.

Quote
My New HCG Protocol Paper
This paper is about to be published in The American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine 2004 Clinical Updates:

AN UPDATE TO THE CRISLER HCG PROTOCOL

By John Crisler, DO

In my paper “My Current Best Thoughts on How to Administer TRT for Men”, published in A4M’s 2004/5 Anti-Aging Clinical Protocols, I introduced a new protocol where small doses of Human Chorionic Gonadotrophin (HCG) are regularly added to traditional TRT (either weekly IM testosterone cypionate or daily cream/gel). The reasons and benefits of this protocol are as follows, along with a new improvement I wish to share:

Any physician who administers TRT will, within the first few months of doing so, field complaints from their patients because they are now experiencing troubling testicular atrophy. Irrespective of the numerous and abundant benefits of TRT, men never enjoy seeing their genitals shrinking! Testicular atrophy occurs because the depressed LH level, secondary to the HPTA suppression TRT induces, no longer supports them. It is well known that HCG—a Luteinizing Hormone (LH) analog—will effectively, and dramatically, restore the testicles to previous form and function. It accomplishes this due to shared moiety between the alpha subunits of both hormones.

So, that satisfies an aesthetic consideration which should not be ignored. Now let’s delve into the pharmacodynamics of the TRT medications. For those employing injectable
testosterone cypionate, the cypionate ester provides a 5-8 day half-life, depending upon the specific metabolism, activity level, and overall health of the patient. It is now well-established that appropriate TRT using IM injections must be dosed at weekly intervals, in order to avoid seating the patient on a hormonal, and emotional, roller coaster. Adding in some HCG toward the end of the weekly “cycle” compensates for the drop in serum androgen levels by the half-life of the cypionate ester. Certainly the body thrives on regularity, and supplementing the TRT with endogenous testosterone production at just the right time—without inappropriately raising androgen OR estrogen (more on that later)—approximates the excellent performance stability of transdermal testosterone delivery systems for those who, for whatever reason or reasons, prefer test cyp.

But there’s another metabolic reason to employ this protocol. The P450 Side Chain Cleavage enzyme, which converts CHOL into pregnenolone at the initiation of all three metabolic pathways CHOL serves as precursor (the sex hormones, glucocorticoids and mineralcorticoids), is actively stimulated, or depressed, by LH concentrations. It is intuitively consistent that during conditions of lowered testosterone levels, commensurate increases in LH production would serve to stimulate this conversion from CHOL into these pathways, thereby feeding more raw material for increased hormone production. And vice versa. Thus the addition of HCG (which also stimulates the P450scc enzyme) helps restore a more natural balance of the hormones within this pathway in patients who are entirely, or even partially, HPTA-suppressed.

It is important that no more than 500IU of HCG be administered on any given day. There is only just so much stimulation possible, and exceeding that not only is wasteful, doing so has important negative consequences. Higher doses overly stimulate testicular aromatase, which inappropriately raises estrogen levels, and brings on the detrimental effects of same. It also causes Leydig cell desentization to LH, and we are therefore inducing primary hypogonadism while perhaps treating secondary hypogonadism. 250IU QD is an effective, and safe, dose. After all, we are merely replacing that which is lost to inhibition.

In my previous report I recommended 250IU of HCG twice per week for all TRT patients, taken the day of, along with the day before, the weekly test cyp injection. After looking at countless lab printouts, listening to subjective reports from patients, and learning more about HCG, I am now shifting that regimen forward one day. In other words, my test cyp TRT patients now take their HCG at 250IU two days before, as well as the day immediately previous to, their IM shot. All administer their HCG subcutaneously, and dosage may be adjusted as necessary (I have yet to see more than 350IU per dose required).

I made this change after realizing that the previous HCG protocol was boosting serum testosterone levels too much, as the test cyp serum concentrations rise, approaching its peak at roughly the 72 hour mark. The original goal of supporting serum androgen levels with HCG had overshot its mark.

Those TRT patients who prefer a transdermal testosterone, or even testosterone pellets (although I am not in favor of same), take their HCG every third day. They needn’t concern themselves with diminishing serum androgen levels from their testosterone delivery system. These patients will, of course, notice an increase in serum androgen levels above baseline.

While HCG, as sole TRT, is still considered treatment of choice for hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism by many , my experience is that it just does not bring the same subjective benefits as pure testosterone delivery systems do—even when similar serum androgen levels are produced from comparable baseline values. However, supplementing the more “traditional” TRT of transdermal, or injected, testosterone with HCG stabilizes serum levels, prevents testicular atrophy, helps rebalance expression of other hormones, and brings reports of greatly increased sense of well-being and libido. My patients absolutely love it. As time goes on, we are coming to appreciate HCG as a much more powerful--and wonderful--hormone than previously given credit.

Copyright John Crisler, DO 2004. This article may, in its entirety or in part, be reprinted and republished without permission, provided that credit is given to its author, with copyright notice and 2. All Things Male - Center for Men's Health clearly displayed as source. Written permission from Dr. Crisler is required for all other uses.
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: Krankenstein on March 06, 2011, 01:26:13 PM
He's not on HCG yet.

If I went on HRT I would probably do this. Don't know if this doc has further updated the protocol, but something like this. The low-dose HCG can actually stabilize T levels.


The FL guy recommended 500units of HCG every week.....and .5mg of anastrozole EOD
Title: Re: gh15's professional opinion on musclecenter
Post by: Jack T. Cross on March 09, 2011, 10:48:53 AM
muscle centers is not natural. he just takes less than 1g total of hormones..which is natural nowdays

Seriously, he won Mr. Taiwan as a "life time natural".
Title: Re: gh15's professional opinion on musclecenter
Post by: Benoitlapierre on March 09, 2011, 11:54:13 AM
muscle centers is not natural. he just takes less than 1g total of hormones..which is natural nowdays

LMAOL ..
Title: Re: gh15's professional opinion on musclecenter
Post by: Game Time on March 09, 2011, 11:58:21 AM
Who cares?

He is a cool dude who puts up some quality posts. 90% of this boards BBing material comes from the guys posts.

Leave him in peace!!
Title: Re: gh15's professional opinion on musclecenter
Post by: lvtolft on March 09, 2011, 12:03:48 PM
Who cares?

He is a cool dude who puts up some quality posts. 90% of this boards BBing material comes from the guys posts.

Leave him in peace!!
Agreed!
Title: Re: gh15's professional opinion on musclecenter
Post by: Meso_z on March 09, 2011, 12:14:34 PM
Leave him alone. (not natural)  ;D
Title: Re: gh15's professional opinion on musclecenter
Post by: The Grim Lifter on March 09, 2011, 01:17:13 PM
Who cares gh15 thinks anyone with any muscle is on everything, or whatever flavour of the month is with him, huge amonuts of GH, huge amounts of Tren etc. To him Musclecenter has been using for 30 years and lying about it. Everyone is a liar remember. If they say they arn't using then they are.
Title: Re: gh15's professional opinion on musclecenter
Post by: HTexan on March 09, 2011, 01:19:20 PM
Not natural
no legs, so could be natural?
Title: Re: gh15's professional opinion on musclecenter
Post by: disco_stu on March 09, 2011, 01:31:19 PM
Who cares gh15 thinks anyone with any muscle is on everything, or whatever flavour of the month is with him, huge amonuts of GH, huge amounts of Tren etc. To him Musclecenter has been using for 30 years and lying about it. Everyone is a liar remember. If they say they arn't using then they are.

x2..


spot on.

its because everyone gh15 knows use some sort of drug, and every gain gh15 has ever made has been the result of using drugs.

the guy uses bb boards as therapy to justify his own reliance on drugs and make him feel like he has accomplished something when in reality he hasnt..

he hasnt learnt anything either- other than drugs make muscles.
Title: Re: gh15's professional opinion on musclecenter
Post by: Cleanest Natural on March 09, 2011, 01:43:57 PM
I think musclecenter is a great guy but yes he uses
Title: Re: gh15's professional opinion on musclecenter
Post by: mass243 on March 09, 2011, 01:46:02 PM
I like to dissect girls. Did you know I'm utterly insane?

Why would it be wrong to give sluts what they want  ???
Title: gh15
Post by: Alexander D on March 09, 2011, 04:51:45 PM
it would be interesting to hear you speak about the gurus in the sport.

ie-

The Chad

Oscar the homo

Handy Rimjob

Chris Asseata

etc

Forgive me "god" if this has already been discussed in your bible

Alex D approved
Title: Re: gh15
Post by: Stavios on March 09, 2011, 05:02:13 PM
please adress gh15 as MR.gh15

thanks

Title: Re: gh15
Post by: claymore on March 09, 2011, 05:35:09 PM
it would be interesting to hear you speak about the gurus in the sport.

ie-

The Chad

Oscar the homo

Handy Rimjob

Chris Asseata

etc

Forgive me "god" if this has already been discussed in your bible

Alex D approved


I'll try to sum it up best I can...think of them as life coaches, if you need one it's pretty pathetic.
Title: Re: gh15
Post by: The Grim Lifter on March 09, 2011, 06:42:56 PM
His opinion on Chad will be biased.
Title: Re: gh15's professional opinion on musclecenter
Post by: Secret Stack on March 09, 2011, 07:27:56 PM
the circle of friends musclecentre is associated with gretaly looks down on drug use. he has built himself as a role model of what longevity and health means and he is a spokeman for that in his country.
musclecentre is in the same category "healthy old men can look good too" as the kyoshi moody guy and natural bodybuilding that he will be finished in his community if it ever got out that he was a user.

is it possible for the human body to secrete the gh levels from the pitary gland at age 60+ to keep such tight and low bf% levels? the testosterone still high as it ever was to maintain muscle fullness like that?
Title: Re: gh15's professional opinion on musclecenter
Post by: Jack T. Cross on March 09, 2011, 08:32:10 PM
Not so much asking whether an "anti-juice" person is using juice or not, but more whether that person has placed himself in a position where he is acting as a hypocritical liar.

MC is a good dude, though...just saying.
Title: Re: gh15's professional opinion on musclecenter
Post by: Master Blaster on March 09, 2011, 09:49:11 PM
x2..


spot on.

its because everyone gh15 knows use some sort of drug, and every gain gh15 has ever made has been the result of using drugs.

the guy uses bb boards as therapy to justify his own reliance on drugs and make him feel like he has accomplished something when in reality he hasnt..

he hasnt learnt anything either- other than drugs make muscles.

In other words he learned EVERYTHING!!! That = EVERYTHING

when you get it?

drug = muscle

damn you fuckers are slow to accept the truth

liitle tiny cut muscle = natural

moderte, to slightly elevated muscle = highly toxic, highly powerfull haladrol/Superdrol/ M1T actual steroids, strongest ones that are made

muscle = drug = EVERY TRUTH about bodybuilding

once you know the truth, its like you are talking to little children   :-\
Title: Re: gh15's professional opinion on musclecenter
Post by: Master Blaster on March 09, 2011, 09:54:49 PM
drug free

(http://img.timeinc.net/time/photoessays/2009/mr_universe/mr_universe_02.jpg)

HOPE THAT FUCKING HELPS YOU FUCKING IDIOTS!
Title: Re: gh15's professional opinion on musclecenter
Post by: The Grim Lifter on March 09, 2011, 10:19:25 PM
In other words he learned EVERYTHING!!! That = EVERYTHING

when you get it?

drug = muscle

damn you fuckers are slow to accept the truth

liitle tiny cut muscle = natural

moderte, to slightly elevated muscle = highly toxic, highly powerfull haladrol/Superdrol/ M1T actual steroids, strongest ones that are made

muscle = drug = EVERY TRUTH about bodybuilding

once you know the truth, its like you are talking to little children   :-\

He also said you can only gain 10 pounds naturally. I gained over 45 before i stopped going anywhere naturally then started juicing.

A lot of what he says is excellent, it's his lack of understanding that he does not know everything, that he has been hanging around massive drug users his whole bodybuilding life and can't see other points of view.

If Drug = Muscle

then

More Drugs = More Muscle and this isn't always the case

It also means

No Drugs = No Muscle and this isn't true

There is more to it than just that.
Title: Re: gh15's professional opinion on musclecenter
Post by: titusisback on March 09, 2011, 10:21:48 PM
I think musclecenter is a great guy but yes he uses

x2
Title: Re: gh15's professional opinion on musclecenter
Post by: Firemuscle on March 09, 2011, 10:22:52 PM
drug free

(http://img.timeinc.net/time/photoessays/2009/mr_universe/mr_universe_02.jpg)

HOPE THAT FUCKING HELPS YOU FUCKING IDIOTS!

 Exactly.
Title: Re: gh15's professional opinion on musclecenter
Post by: musclecenter on March 09, 2011, 10:33:12 PM
Welcome all you young punks to troll me old-fart here ;)
And post what you want :)

Title: Re: gh15's professional opinion on musclecenter
Post by: Firemuscle on March 09, 2011, 10:36:55 PM
Welcome all you young punks to troll me old-fart here ;)
And post what you want :)



 Awesome music bro  :-X
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: theworm on March 12, 2011, 08:11:11 AM
no word from GH15 on the original question????
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: Tito24 on March 12, 2011, 08:11:36 AM
(http://www.pileup.com/babyart/blog-images3/hsaio1.jpg)
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: el numero uno on March 12, 2011, 06:01:32 PM
Welcome all you young punks to troll me old-fart here ;)
And post what you want :)



wtf? is that your cock in the preview of the vid? (yes, homo :-*)
Title: Re: gh15's professional opinion on musclecenter
Post by: Jaime on March 13, 2011, 03:08:40 AM
In other words he learned EVERYTHING!!! That = EVERYTHING

when you get it?

drug = muscle

damn you fuckers are slow to accept the truth

liitle tiny cut muscle = natural

moderte, to slightly elevated muscle = highly toxic, highly powerfull haladrol/Superdrol/ M1T actual steroids, strongest ones that are made

muscle = drug = EVERY TRUTH about bodybuilding

once you know the truth, its like you are talking to little children   :-\



GH15 thinks that you max out after putting 10lbs on, that your arms are maxed after a year and about an inch. You lose all muscle after stopping traning for a month...... et cetera.....

In short he knows absolutley nothing about training, What he does know about is the bodybuilding scene and drugs.

He hugely generalizes. He has zero experience with natural training and thinks that everyone is genetically identical.

He is borderline retarded with his viewpoints. I imagine it's down to his missgivings about the industry and the way he built his own physique.
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: dyslexic on March 13, 2011, 03:13:20 AM
i'll try high doses deca for my off-season

That's "deca-duribolina" to you my friend...
Title: Re: ? for GH15... European vs American BB
Post by: Jack T. Cross on March 16, 2011, 09:59:37 PM
no word from GH15 on the original question????

Maybe gh15's trying to spare MC's feelings. lol

And in Taiwan, you can get all kinds of good shit for cheap.  Honestly, I can say MC is a bodybuilder until death - so especially at his age, there is NO FUCKING WAY HE'S NATURAL.