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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Hugo Chavez on March 22, 2011, 05:30:44 AM

Title: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Hugo Chavez on March 22, 2011, 05:30:44 AM
It's been so long I can't remember, anybody have the data on that?  I seem to remember he did but might be wrong.


My question is not meant to excuse Obama.  I would rather those guys in Libya be left to kill eachother than have us get involved.  Obama should also go through congress imo...  
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: RUDE BUOY on March 22, 2011, 05:35:16 AM
i dont get why he rushing to get involved places like africa and the middle east are fvcked have been for thousands of years. Blood begets blood nothing any outside source claiming to help can do to ever change this. The people of these nations are brought up on a hefty dose of violence and death and in turn a lot of them not all of them return the favor. It saddens me to say but i have agree with your statement let em kill each other it seems they will never be happy until they do
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 22, 2011, 05:39:35 AM
Lybia was diectly ehing trhe bombing of barracks and killing of marines and Reagan retaliated. 

Obama is setting a completely different precedent by saying we are going here to protect the citizens and setting the groundwork for endless wars and police actions all over the place.   

Yemen, Baharain, Ivory Coast, etc are all going through the same thing - is obaa going to sed troop and resources ove there too to protect those people? 

   
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Hugo Chavez on March 22, 2011, 05:51:07 AM
Lybia was diectly ehing trhe bombing of barracks and killing of marines and Reagan retaliated. 

Obama is setting a completely different precedent by saying we are going here to protect the citizens and setting the groundwork for endless wars and police actions all over the place.   

Yemen, Baharain, Ivory Coast, etc are all going through the same thing - is obaa going to sed troop and resources ove there too to protect those people? 

   
I just wanted to know if Reagan attacked other countries without approval from congress.  I don't need any excuses.  I don't agree whatsoever with what Obama has done in this case.  I'm only asking because I had trouble finding absolute info on this and wondered if anyone knew for sure.  I'm not out to bitch slap Reagan, just trying to see if I remember right or not.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 22, 2011, 05:53:56 AM
I just wanted to know if Reagan attacked other countries without approval from congress.  I don't need any excuses.  I don't agree whatsoever with what Obama has done in this case.  I'm only asking because I had trouble finding absolute info on this and wondered if anyone knew for sure.  I'm not out to bitch slap Reagan, just trying to see if I remember right or not.

I know that - I ws just giving yo the diference in rationale. We were retailiating for dead marines, Obama is openin the way for endless war, endless police actions, endless world cop, etc.       
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 22, 2011, 05:55:28 AM
A real President.    Unike the present piece of trash.     

Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: RUDE BUOY on March 22, 2011, 05:55:46 AM
I know that - I ws just giving yo the diference in rationale. We were retailiating for dead marines, Obama is openin the way for endless war, endless police actions, endless world cop, etc.       
he aint the only president to do so
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: loco on March 22, 2011, 06:04:38 AM
i dont get why he rushing to get involved places like africa and the middle east are fvcked have been for thousands of years. Blood begets blood nothing any outside source claiming to help can do to ever change this. The people of these nations are brought up on a hefty dose of violence and death and in turn a lot of them not all of them return the favor. It saddens me to say but i have agree with your statement let em kill each other it seems they will never be happy until they do

Libya is one of the world's 10 richest oil-producing countries.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: RUDE BUOY on March 22, 2011, 06:05:40 AM
Libya is one of the world's 10 richest oil-producing countries.
yah this is true and really what it boils down to now
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: 240 is Back on March 22, 2011, 06:15:54 AM
Bottom line is this....

if youtube was filled with images of 60,000 dead libyan families laid out on the roads, repubs would be crapping their pants screaming about obama for his inaction.

they were going to whine no matter what.  No matter what.  So obama just did what the fck he felt like doing, damn the congress and their opinions.  They've been screaming at the top of their lungs about Michelle's red dress and christmas decorations for 2 years now.  Nobody listens to them anymore when they scream about legit uses of american power, as obama has clearly done here.

Stop fcking crying wolf, and people will notice some illegal obama shit like this. 
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 22, 2011, 06:23:35 AM
 ::)  ::)  ::)
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Hugo Chavez on March 22, 2011, 06:24:16 AM
Not saying I like it but....

Neither McCarthy nor Somin mention, however, the War Powers Act, which was passed in the wake of the Vietnam War in an effort to reign in Presidential war power, but which actually enhances that power greatly and gives the President the ability to commit U.S. military forces without seeking Congressional approval under a wide variety of circumstances. As summarized by Wikipedia, the Act “requires the president to notify Congress within 48 hours of committing armed forces to military action and forbids armed forces from remaining for more than 60 days, with a further 30 day withdrawal period, without an authorization of the use of military force or a declaration of war.”

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/congress-the-president-and-war-powers-under-the-constitution/
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Hugo Chavez on March 22, 2011, 06:28:27 AM
So legally, Obama is in the clear on this as Reagan was.  No, I don't like it either.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 22, 2011, 06:30:01 AM
Bottom line is that Obama himself said in 2007 he was against all of this and it was not constitutional. 


But now the obama dildos are still making excuses for him.   Disgusting.   
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: RUDE BUOY on March 22, 2011, 06:31:08 AM
democracy at its finest boil on o melting pot  ;D
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 22, 2011, 06:31:26 AM
So legally, Obama is in the clear on this as Reagan was.  No, I don't like it either.

Reagan retailiated for dead marines and terrorim directly against our citizens.  Bama is obviously wagging the dog to mask his disastrous economic policies and failures on jobs, energy, healh care, etc.      
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: 240 is Back on March 22, 2011, 06:32:27 AM
::)  ::)  ::)

roll your eyes, but you know i'm right.  

reagan did dirt, then "didn't recall" it.  Bush 1?  LMAO.   clinton got away with tons of shit.  bush did whatever he wanted.  obama's just doing what every other president did.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: RUDE BUOY on March 22, 2011, 06:33:58 AM
roll your eyes, but you know i'm right.  

reagan did dirt, then "didn't recall" it.  Bush 1?  LMAO.   clinton got away with tons of shit.  bush did whatever he wanted.  obama's just doing what every other president did.

he just doin it in all his blackness and thats why people being hard on his ass
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: loco on March 22, 2011, 06:35:02 AM
Not saying I like it but....

Neither McCarthy nor Somin mention, however, the War Powers Act, which was passed in the wake of the Vietnam War in an effort to reign in Presidential war power, but which actually enhances that power greatly and gives the President the ability to commit U.S. military forces without seeking Congressional approval under a wide variety of circumstances. As summarized by Wikipedia, the Act “requires the president to notify Congress within 48 hours of committing armed forces to military action and forbids armed forces from remaining for more than 60 days, with a further 30 day withdrawal period, without an authorization of the use of military force or a declaration of war.”

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/congress-the-president-and-war-powers-under-the-constitution/

Good find Hugo!  I guess this means it's legal and Obama is off the hook as long as the US pulls out of Libya within 60 days, if congress does not authorize this military action.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: 240 is Back on March 22, 2011, 06:36:05 AM
he just doin it in all his blackness and thats why people being hard on his ass

is this true, 33?

i know the use of race in your posts only started a short while back.

obama doesn't see black/white.   he sees elite, and the rest of us poor scrubs.  his skin color is nothing but clever marketing.  

let's face it, obama has become bush, reagan, clinton, etc.  nothing more, nothing less.  unless you have a thread complaining about reagan 'forgetting' shit... piss off.  go take the piss.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: RUDE BUOY on March 22, 2011, 06:37:53 AM
is this true, 33?

i know the use of race in your posts only started a short while back.

obama doesn't see black/white.   he sees elite, and the rest of us poor scrubs.  his skin color is nothing but clever marketing.  

let's face it, obama has become bush, reagan, clinton, etc.  nothing more, nothing less.  unless you have a thread complaining about reagan 'forgetting' shit... piss off.  go take the piss.
i guess if you really look at the states now you could be right there is no race just rich and poor maybe classism is the worlds biggest problem now
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Hugo Chavez on March 22, 2011, 06:38:13 AM
Bottom line is that Obama himself said in 2007 he was against all of this and it was not constitutional. 


But now the obama dildos are still making excuses for him.   Disgusting.   
I'm not an Obama dildo making excuses for him  ::)  I'm just fuking trying to get the goddamed facts straight so I understand what I'm fucking looking at.  Step down buddy.

I agree that Obama is a hypocrite for saying what he said, I was the first person to post that quote from Obama via Michael Moore's website here... no credit given though but everyone repeating it...
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 22, 2011, 06:38:20 AM
is this true, 33?

i know the use of race in your posts only started a short while back.

obama doesn't see black/white.   he sees elite, and the rest of us poor scrubs.  his skin color is nothing but clever marketing.  

let's face it, obama has become bush, reagan, clinton, etc.  nothing more, nothing less.  unless you have a thread complaining about reagan 'forgetting' shit... piss off.  go take the piss.


LOL.  Getbig is not 25 years old you dope.  And I like how you always excuse the misdoings of your messiah and lord savior by trying to go back and find somethinhg else someone else did.  

Yeah, really a  good example for that.   ::)
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: 240 is Back on March 22, 2011, 06:41:11 AM

LOL.  Getbig is not 25 years old you dope.  And I like how you always excuse the misdoings of your messiah and lord savior by trying to go back and find somethinhg else someone else did. 

Yeah, really a  good example for that.   ::)


33,

Do you condemn Reagan for his obvious lies when he said that he had forgotten important details about the Iran-contra affair?

Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Hugo Chavez on March 22, 2011, 06:43:04 AM
Good find Hugo!  I guess this means it's legal and Obama is off the hook as long as the US pulls out of Libya within 60 days, if congress does not authorize this military action.
unfortunately this looks like the case... I seem to remember a few things going down like this before but wanted to make sure I was remembering right.  I thought I remembered people talking about this issue a long time ago and found this reference.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 22, 2011, 06:43:22 AM

33,

Do you condemn Reagan for his obvious lies when he said that he had forgotten important details about the Iran-contra affair?



Yeah, he lied.   Funny - I will call it straight yet you will NEVER condemn a damn thing your messiah does, no matter how bad, no matter how dishonest, no matter how contradictory, you just look back to equivocate it with something someone did in the past.

nice.        
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Hugo Chavez on March 22, 2011, 06:45:58 AM
So basically the only thing you can call Obama out for is being a flip flopper on this...  Unfortunately the count of politicians doing that is mighty high, not counting Ron Paul who I swear to god seems to be absolute in his opinions decade after decade lol..
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 22, 2011, 06:47:36 AM
So basically the only thing you can call Obama out for is being a flip flopper on this...  Unfortunately the count of politicians doing that is mighty high, not counting Ron Paul who I swear to god seems to be absolute in his opinions decade after decade lol..

Reagan consulted the congress before striking lybia, obama did not. 
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Hugo Chavez on March 22, 2011, 06:47:59 AM
Yeah, he lied.   Funny - I will call it straight yet you will NEVER condemn a damn thing your messiah does, no matter how bad, no matter how dishonest, no matter how contradictory, you just look back to equivocate it with something someone did in the past.

nice.        
There's no evidence that Reagan lied.  Epic good dude, don't tarnish his name without proof ok...
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: 240 is Back on March 22, 2011, 06:50:18 AM
There's no evidence that Reagan lied.  Epic good dude, don't tarnish his name without proof ok...

Personally, I believe that Reagan actually "didn't recall" all of those 130 or 150 times under oath.

33 seems to think Reagan was lying. 
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Fury on March 22, 2011, 06:51:02 AM
Obama was strong-armed into this by England, France and the Arab League, compounded by his delusional desire to keep the Arab revolutions rolling. He also set the stage for intervention weeks ago when he opened his suckhole and threw Qaddafi to the wolves.  

So, to all the people justifying his military action, will you support us heading into Syria, Yemen and Bahrain next? After all, all of those countries have violently suppressed protests in the last weeks. 50+ people were killed in a few hours in Yemen the other day.

We can even swing through Africa on the way home, hitting the Congo and Somalia. And, for dessert, we can pop into Colombia and finally eradicate FARC. If we're feeling like cheating on our diet with a late-night snack, we can sneak down to Mexico and pop some Cartel trash!

Can't wait!
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Hugo Chavez on March 22, 2011, 06:51:52 AM
3333, what's up with the Reagan bashing :-\
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Fury on March 22, 2011, 06:53:44 AM
Why do we cherry pick which countries to intervene in? Why have we thrown the Iranian populace to the wolves twice now while we enter a civil war in Libya?
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Hugo Chavez on March 22, 2011, 06:58:05 AM
Why do we cherry pick which countries to intervene in? Why have we thrown the Iranian populace to the wolves twice now while we enter a civil war in Libya?
Good question... wondering the same shit for quite a while... 
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 22, 2011, 06:59:15 AM
Good question... wondering the same shit for quite a while... 


wag the dog
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: 240 is Back on March 22, 2011, 07:01:10 AM
3333, what's up with the Reagan bashing :-\

He called Reagan a liar?  

We all saw his 1984 debate debacle, where he clearly had a memory issue.  We know ABC news was pressred to keep their news stories on his mental issues quiet, for issues of national secuurity.

it's entirely believable that despite all his lawyers and briefings on the matter, he took the stand and suddenly forgot 130 times.

33 doesn't think so tho.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: RUDE BUOY on March 22, 2011, 07:07:25 AM
Why do we cherry pick which countries to intervene in? Why have we thrown the Iranian populace to the wolves twice now while we enter a civil war in Libya?
dont forget the people of Zimbabwe 
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Hugo Chavez on March 22, 2011, 07:14:44 AM
wow, this is the first time I've had one of my threads go two pages in a very long time...  Let me kill this shit now.... FUKUSHIMA!!! BOO!!!!! ;D
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: dario73 on March 22, 2011, 07:14:54 AM
(CNSNews.com) - As a presidential candidate, Sen. Barack Obama (D.-Ill.) emphatically stated that the Constitution does not give the president the authority to unilaterally authorize a military attack unless it is needed to stop an actual or imminent attack on the United States.

Obama made the assertion in a Dec. 20, 2007 interview with the Boston Globe when reporter Charlie Savage asked him under what circumstances the president would have the constitutional authority to bomb Iran without first seeking authorization from Congress.

“The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation,” Obama responded.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Hugo Chavez on March 22, 2011, 07:16:59 AM
(CNSNews.com) - As a presidential candidate, Sen. Barack Obama (D.-Ill.) emphatically stated that the Constitution does not give the president the authority to unilaterally authorize a military attack unless it is needed to stop an actual or imminent attack on the United States.

Obama made the assertion in a Dec. 20, 2007 interview with the Boston Globe when reporter Charlie Savage asked him under what circumstances the president would have the constitutional authority to bomb Iran without first seeking authorization from Congress.

“The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation,” Obama responded.

yes yes, I posted it here days ago and several have been posting it constantly since....  It makes him a flip flopper on opinion but from what i understand, he's legal in what he's doing.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: RUDE BUOY on March 22, 2011, 07:17:02 AM
Teh Libyans had the weapons of mass destruction the whole time and obama had to react man he did it for us man. Obama almost died for us man
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 22, 2011, 07:18:07 AM
yes yes, I posted it here days ago and several have been posting it constantly since....

Yes, guess why Hugo?
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Hugo Chavez on March 22, 2011, 07:19:48 AM
Yes, guess why Hugo?
what?
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 22, 2011, 07:20:54 AM
what?

Why do people keep posting obama's own words on this? 
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Hugo Chavez on March 22, 2011, 07:27:00 AM
Why do people keep posting obama's own words on this? 
well no fucking shit...  It points out what an assbackstabbing flip flopping sack of shit he is.

I'll also point out that I first brought that quote to this board after you had called out Moore.  You had NO COMMENT about that did you?  BB then took the quote and started posting it in other threads and it went from there with the original purpose of it being posted here, lost without a single comment.  I understand how much you guys hate Moore, but at least you could have the balls to admit you were wrong to call him out on what you did when Moore is indeed shooting at Obama on this crap.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: dario73 on March 22, 2011, 07:27:05 AM
yes yes, I posted it here days ago and several have been posting it constantly since....  It makes him a flip flopper on opinion but from what i understand, he's legal in what he's doing.

But, this is the caveat:
does not give the president the authority to unilaterally authorize a military attack unless it is needed to stop an actual or imminent attack on the United States.

What threat is Libya to the USA?  The reason why the left called Bush a war criminial was because to them Iraq was not a threat and had nothing to to do with 911. Why is the left so quiet now?

In order for Obama's actions to be legal he has to show Lybia was going to ATTACK USA.  If he can't prove that then his action was illegal and therefore a war criminal just like the left claimed Bush was a war criminal.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Kazan on March 22, 2011, 07:28:04 AM
yes yes, I posted it here days ago and several have been posting it constantly since....  It makes him a flip flopper on opinion but from what i understand, he's legal in what he's doing.

That is debatable:

From Article I section 8

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress

The POTUS may be CIC, but where is the immanent threat to America or its assets?

241 Marines lost their lives in '82. that was a direct attack/immanent threat to a US asset

This is a link the War Powers Act of 1975 not going to post the whole thing because of the length

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/warpower.asp (http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/warpower.asp)

SEC. 3. The President in every possible instance shall consult with Congress before introducing United States Armed Forces into hostilities or into situation where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances, and after every such introduction shall consult regularly with the Congress until United States Armed Forces are no longer engaged in hostilities or have been removed from such situations.

Now that seems clear and concise

Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Hugo Chavez on March 22, 2011, 07:28:27 AM
But, this is the caveat:
does not give the president the authority to unilaterally authorize a military attack unless it is needed to stop an actual or imminent attack on the United States.

What threat is Libya to the USA?  The reason why the left called Bush a war criminial was because to them Iraq was not a threat and had nothing to to do with 911. Why is the left so quiet now?

In order for Obama's actions to be legal he has to show Lybia was going to ATTACK USA.  If he can't prove that then his action was illegal and therefore a war criminal just like the left claimed Bush was a war criminal.

Yea, I think we all get that... That's what people have been talking about in several threads.  No offense.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Hugo Chavez on March 22, 2011, 07:33:05 AM
That is debatable:

From Article I section 8

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress

The POTUS may be CIC, but where is the immanent threat to America or its assets?

241 Marines lost their lives in '82. that was a direct attack/immanent threat to a US asset
It's not debatable according to the Wars Power Act.  I agree, the president shouldn't be able to do this shit without going through congress.  But legally, I think he is in the clear...
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Kazan on March 22, 2011, 07:35:16 AM
I edited the post you should take a look at the war powers act ( is it unconstitutional? Probably but it on the books)
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: dario73 on March 22, 2011, 07:35:39 AM
Yea, I think we all get that... That's what people have been talking about in several threads.  No offense.

None taken. I couldn't log in the past 4 days and just responded to the first thread I saw. I am late to the game.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Hugo Chavez on March 22, 2011, 07:37:05 AM
I edited the post you should take a look at the war powers act ( is it unconstitutional? Probably but it on the books)
yea, I agree without even looking at your post... but the problem is there and it still leaves Obama legally in the clear on this.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Kazan on March 22, 2011, 07:38:11 AM
yea, I agree without even looking at your post... but the problem is there and it still leaves Obama legally in the clear on this.

Not really because he didn't consult congress
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 22, 2011, 07:38:40 AM
yea, I agree without even looking at your post... but the problem is there and it still leaves Obama legally in the clear on this.

Yes, but under the war powers act he needs to report back to congress and fully account for this as well as future plans.  

Bama is gong to get steam rolled on this by both sides wih only Kerry, McLame, and Lieberman giving him cover.  
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Kazan on March 22, 2011, 07:40:27 AM
Yes, but under the war powers act he needs to report back to congress and fully account for this as well as future plans.  

Bama is gong to get steam rolled on this by both sides wih only Kerry, McLame, and Lieberman giving him cover.  

The key is that the POTUS is supposed to consult congress before introducing US forces, not simply report after
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Hugo Chavez on March 22, 2011, 07:41:22 AM
so you're saying that Obama did not notify Congress within the 48 hours required?  Any links to prove this... Maybe we can nail this down to impeachable right here!
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Kazan on March 22, 2011, 07:45:53 AM
so you're saying that Obama did not notify Congress within the 48 hours required?  Any links to prove this... Maybe we can nail this down to impeachable right here!


(3) in numbers which substantially enlarge United States Armed Forces equipped for combat already located in a foreign nation; the president shall submit within 48 hours to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and to the President pro tempore of the Senate a report, in writing, setting forth--

(A) the circumstances necessitating the introduction of United States Armed Forces;

(B) the constitutional and legislative authority under which such introduction took place; and

(C) the estimated scope and duration of the hostilities or involvement.

(b) The President shall provide such other information as the Congress may request in the fulfillment of its constitutional responsibilities with respect to committing the Nation to war and to the use of United States Armed Forces abroad

I haven't seen any of this information reported, so I really don't know. B could be a real problem in this instance
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: RUDE BUOY on March 22, 2011, 07:48:34 AM
 :)
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: OzmO on March 22, 2011, 07:49:07 AM
What about Grenada?
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Kazan on March 22, 2011, 07:57:05 AM
What about Grenada?

This is another situation( if you believe it to be) of US assets, in this case US citizens put in jeopardy abroad.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Hugo Chavez on March 22, 2011, 07:59:19 AM

(3) in numbers which substantially enlarge United States Armed Forces equipped for combat already located in a foreign nation; the president shall submit within 48 hours to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and to the President pro tempore of the Senate a report, in writing, setting forth--

(A) the circumstances necessitating the introduction of United States Armed Forces;

(B) the constitutional and legislative authority under which such introduction took place; and

(C) the estimated scope and duration of the hostilities or involvement.

(b) The President shall provide such other information as the Congress may request in the fulfillment of its constitutional responsibilities with respect to committing the Nation to war and to the use of United States Armed Forces abroad

I haven't seen any of this information reported, so I really don't know. B could be a real problem in this instance
Yea, that's the trick... we have to show or see that he didn't notify congress in the 48 hour time...  If anyone can show that, we got ourselves a real cause.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: OzmO on March 22, 2011, 08:00:10 AM
This is another situation( if you believe it to be) of US assets, in this case US citizens put in jeopardy abroad.

I remember reading in Tip O'Neil's book about Reagan telling him it was to get people's mind off of the marines killed in Lebanon.  Just what I read lol.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: whork25 on March 22, 2011, 08:00:44 AM
Just a couple a weeks ago there was posts with Obama not getting any respect in the middle-east and that Bush was so feared and respected bla bla..

Maybe he took offence?
After all Trump cant attack him on being weak and afraid of confrontation anymore

Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 22, 2011, 08:02:37 AM
Just a couple a weeks ago there was posts with Obama not getting any respect in the middle-east and that Bush was so feared and respected bla bla..

Maybe he took offence?
After all Trump cant attack him on being weak and afraid of confrontation anymore



You think this garners respect for Obama?  ha ha ha ha 
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Hugo Chavez on March 22, 2011, 08:03:29 AM
What about Grenada?
I was thinking there were a few examples of this but I couldn't find proof online...  The search engines are harder and harder to use these days, geared toward giving you a million results rather than letting you pin it down with all the right keywords...  I keep getting results from the major search engines that don't even have the words I searched for in the document.  fuckers...
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: whork25 on March 22, 2011, 08:04:59 AM
If he is disrespected for not starting any wars and promote peace like you argued then this must give him respect and ffear from the middle east surely.
He has shown to be willing to start wars even without the congress it seems.

The man got cujones
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 22, 2011, 08:06:40 AM
If he is disrespected for not starting any wars and promote peace like you argued then this must give him respect and ffear from the middle east surely.
He has shown to be willing to start wars even without the congress it seems.

The man got cujones


Yeah, being pushed into a war because Hillary, Samantha Powers, and Susan Rice yelled at you before heading off to a vacation will get respect.   ::)  ::)
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Kazan on March 22, 2011, 08:06:48 AM
Just a couple a weeks ago there was posts with Obama not getting any respect in the middle-east and that Bush was so feared and respected bla bla..

Maybe he took offence?
After all Trump cant attack him on being weak and afraid of confrontation anymore



The whole thing makes the US look its amateur hour
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Kazan on March 22, 2011, 08:09:41 AM
If he is disrespected for not starting any wars and promote peace like you argued then this must give him respect and ffear from the middle east surely.
He has shown to be willing to start wars even without the congress it seems.

The man got cujones

Why do you think all this shit is going on in the ME all of the sudden? After all the apology tours........ They saw Obama as weak and gambled that the  would not intervene. Still don't see the logic in this action.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: whork25 on March 22, 2011, 08:10:57 AM
Okay Obama stays out of Libya while the French(of all people lol) and the British(our closest allies) attacks? All right-wingers would be screaming traitor, pussy, leaving our allies behind, soft on foreign policy bla..bla..

He goes in and he is a war-mongerer.

Got it.

I have taken side with the right many times in here but now you are just like little children whining...
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 22, 2011, 08:12:26 AM
What part of broke, two wars already, and siding with jihadi's do yuo not grasp?

And are you willing to go to lybia yourself and fight side by side with those people?
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Hugo Chavez on March 22, 2011, 08:13:19 AM
Okay Obama stays out of Libya while the French(of all people lol) and the British(our closest allies) attacks? All right-wingers would be screaming traitor, pussy, leaving our allies behind, soft on foreign policy bla..bla..

He goes in and he is a war-mongerer.

Got it.

I have taken side with the right many times in here but now you are just like little children whining...
BULLSHIT!!!... I would be happy as fuck if those guys did all this shit on their own without us...  Anybody bitched about that I would be happy to tell them off.  If France and those guys wanted this, them them fucking go do it.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Kazan on March 22, 2011, 08:14:08 AM
Okay Obama stays out of Libya while the French(of all people lol) and the British(our closest allies) attacks? All right-wingers would be screaming traitor, pussy, leaving our allies behind, soft on foreign policy bla..bla..

He goes in and he is a war-mongerer.

Got it.

I have taken side with the right many times in here but now you are just like little children whining...

Really, then give me one good reason why the US is bombing Libya. Please enlighten us all, otherwise this is a waste of time, $, and possible US lives.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: whork25 on March 22, 2011, 08:17:18 AM
We need to support our allies, simple as that.

The British have supported us in Afghanistan and Irak as well
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Kazan on March 22, 2011, 08:23:35 AM
We need to support our allies, simple as that.

The British have supported us in Afghanistan and Irak as well

I can see your logic here, but what threat does Libya pose to the UK? They were just dealing with Gaddafi, release a terrorist for oil. Did Gaddafi renege on the deal? There has to be more of a reason than what is being reported.

And who exactly are these rebels? We don't know shit about them, but are ready to clear the way for them to take over? Something stinks about this whole deal.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 22, 2011, 08:25:40 AM
WAG THE DOG! 
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: whork25 on March 22, 2011, 08:29:53 AM
I can see your logic here, but what threat does Libya pose to the UK? They were just dealing with Gaddafi, release a terrorist for oil. Did Gaddafi renege on the deal? There has to be more of a reason than what is being reported.

And who exactly are these rebels? We don't know shit about them, but are ready to clear the way for them to take over? Something stinks about this whole deal.

No threat what so ever.
I believe the reason was the fact that Gaddafi was about to commit genocide hiring african mercenaries for the job. He also said in a speak that the people of Libya would pay for the rebellion.
But this is politics so i completely agree with you there is other interests at work here just like with Irak.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: blacken700 on March 22, 2011, 08:30:05 AM
The White House

Office of the Press Secretary

For Immediate Release March 21, 2011 Letter from the President regarding the commencement of operations in Libya
TEXT OF A LETTER FROM THE PRESIDENT TO THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES AND THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE OF THE SENATE

March 21, 2011

Dear Mr. Speaker: (Dear Mr. President:)

At approximately 3:00 p.m. Eastern Daylight Time, on March 19, 2011, at my direction, U.S. military forces commenced operations to assist an international effort authorized by the United Nations (U.N.) Security Council and undertaken with the support of European allies and Arab partners, to prevent a humanitarian catastrophe and address the threat posed to international peace and security by the crisis in Libya. As part of the multilateral response authorized under U.N. Security Council Resolution 1973, U.S. military forces, under the command of Commander, U.S. Africa Command, began a series of strikes against air defense systems and military airfields for the purposes of preparing a no-fly zone. These strikes will be limited in their nature, duration, and scope. Their purpose is to support an international coalition as it takes all necessary measures to enforce the terms of U.N. Security Council Resolution 1973. These limited U.S. actions will set the stage for further action by other coalition partners.

United Nations Security Council Resolution 1973 authorized Member States, under Chapter VII of the U.N. Charter, to take all necessary measures to protect civilians and civilian populated areas under threat of attack in Libya, including the establishment and enforcement of a "no-fly zone" in the airspace of Libya. United States military efforts are discrete and focused on employing unique U.S. military capabilities to set the conditions for our European allies and Arab partners to carry out the measures authorized by the U.N. Security Council Resolution.

Muammar Qadhafi was provided a very clear message that a cease-fire must be implemented immediately. The international community made clear that all attacks against civilians had to stop; Qadhafi had to stop his forces from advancing on Benghazi; pull them back from Ajdabiya, Misrata, and Zawiya; and establish water, electricity, and gas supplies to all areas. Finally, humanitarian assistance had to be allowed to reach the people of Libya.

Although Qadhafi's Foreign Minister announced an immediate cease-fire, Qadhafi and his forces made no attempt to implement such a cease-fire, and instead continued attacks on Misrata and advanced on Benghazi. Qadhafi's continued attacks and threats against civilians and civilian populated areas are of grave concern to neighboring Arab nations and, as expressly stated in U.N. Security Council Resolution 1973, constitute a threat to the region and to international peace and security. His illegitimate use of force not only is causing the deaths of substantial numbers of civilians among his own people, but also is forcing many others to flee to neighboring countries, thereby destabilizing the peace and security of the region. Left unaddressed, the growing instability in Libya could ignite wider instability in the Middle East, with dangerous consequences to the national security interests of the United States. Qadhafi's defiance of the Arab League, as well as the broader international community moreover, represents a lawless challenge to the authority of the Security Council and its efforts to preserve stability in the region. Qadhafi has forfeited his responsibility to protect his own citizens and created a serious need for immediate humanitarian assistance and protection, with any delay only putting more civilians at risk.

The United States has not deployed ground forces into Libya. United States forces are conducting a limited and well-defined mission in support of international efforts to protect civilians and prevent a humanitarian disaster. Accordingly, U.S. forces have targeted the Qadhafi regime's air defense systems, command and control structures, and other capabilities of Qadhafi's armed forces used to attack civilians and civilian populated areas. We will seek a rapid, but responsible, transition of operations to coalition, regional, or international organizations that are postured to continue activities as may be necessary to realize the objectives of U.N. Security Council Resolutions 1970 and 1973.

For these purposes, I have directed these actions, which are in the national security and foreign policy interests of the United States, pursuant to my constitutional authority to conduct U.S. foreign relations and as Commander in Chief and Chief Executive.

I am providing this report as part of my efforts to keep the Congress fully informed, consistent with the War Powers Resolution. I appreciate the support of the Congress in this action.

BARACK OBAMA
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 22, 2011, 08:31:24 AM
How could he appreciate the support of the congress when there was none to begin with?   
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: whork25 on March 22, 2011, 08:33:46 AM
The United States has not deployed ground forces into Libya. United States forces are conducting a limited and well-defined mission in support of international efforts to protect civilians and prevent a humanitarian disaster.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 22, 2011, 08:37:20 AM
The United States has not deployed ground forces into Libya. United States forces are conducting a limited and well-defined mission in support of international efforts to protect civilians and prevent a humanitarian disaster.

 ::)  ::)

Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Kazan on March 22, 2011, 08:39:30 AM
The United States has not deployed ground forces into Libya. United States forces are conducting a limited and well-defined mission in support of international efforts to protect civilians and prevent a humanitarian disaster.

The United States has not deployed ground forces(Yet) into Libya. United States forces are conducting a limited and well-defined mission in support of international efforts to protect the oil fields and prevent oil prices from going any higher

there fixed it for :P
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: RUDE BUOY on March 22, 2011, 08:42:18 AM
The United States has not deployed ground forces(Yet) into Libya. United States forces are conducting a limited and well-defined mission in support of international efforts to protect the oil fields and prevent oil prices from going any higher

there fixed it for :P
so in other words .......
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Hugo Chavez on March 22, 2011, 08:43:35 AM
The United States has not deployed ground forces into Libya. United States forces are conducting a limited and well-defined mission in support of international efforts to protect civilians and prevent a humanitarian disaster.
LOL, looks more like they sold the idea of just a no fly zone and then went under the fine type of the deal to launch an all out shock and awe campaign.  Bush formed his coalitions by paying states millions and Obama with his UN buddies by tricking them lol...  nice....

Seriously, why the fuck are we helping a group that hates us to overthough a leader that hates us?  How fucking retarded is that?  Those guys can kill eachother without our help.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: whork25 on March 22, 2011, 08:44:35 AM
The United States has not deployed ground forces(Yet) into Libya. United States forces are conducting a limited and well-defined mission in support of international efforts to protect the oil fields and prevent oil prices from going any higher

there fixed it for :P

 :D
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Hugo Chavez on March 22, 2011, 08:46:13 AM
"May I suggest a 50 mile evacuation zone around Obama's Nobel Peace Prize."
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Kazan on March 22, 2011, 08:46:47 AM
The funniest part of this whole thing is the UN citing humanitarian crisis as their reason for action, shit most of their policies foment humanitarian crisis, while their officials accept bribes and slave out kids.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 22, 2011, 08:47:51 AM
The funniest part of this whole thing is the UN citing humanitarian crisis as their reason for action, shit most of their policies foment humanitarian crisis, while their officials accept bribes and slave out kids.

X 100
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: RUDE BUOY on March 22, 2011, 08:48:02 AM
The funniest part of this whole thing is the UN citing humanitarian crisis as their reason for action, shit most of their policies foment humanitarian crisis, while their officials accept bribes and slave out kids.
bah most of us are to distracted to be bothered by what they do behind the scenes just the way they like it  ;D
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: 240 is Back on March 22, 2011, 09:01:18 AM
i heard this morning that we don't give a shit about slaughters in any country that doesn't export either oil or terrorism

True or false?


And if false, please give examples of US interventions to save lives where neither was present.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: RUDE BUOY on March 22, 2011, 09:03:17 AM
i heard this morning that we don't give a shit about slaughters in any country that doesn't export either oil or terrorism

True or false?


And if false, please give examples of US interventions to save lives where neither was present.
the Saskatchewan civil war things got real yo thanks for you guy's help 
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Straw Man on March 22, 2011, 09:04:14 AM
Lybia was diectly ehing trhe bombing of barracks and killing of marines and Reagan retaliated.  
Obama is setting a completely different precedent by saying we are going here to protect the citizens and setting the groundwork for endless wars and police actions all over the place.  

Yemen, Baharain, Ivory Coast, etc are all going through the same thing - is obaa going to sed troop and resources ove there too to protect those people?    

?

what bombing of barraks are you talking about

Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Kazan on March 22, 2011, 09:09:09 AM
?

what boming of barraks are you talking about



1983, 241 Marines killed when the barracks in Beirut truck bombed
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Hugo Chavez on March 22, 2011, 09:09:50 AM
?

what boming of barraks are you talking about


He's confused.  Don't stress him over it, just post the wiki link for him to read.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Straw Man on March 22, 2011, 09:12:27 AM
1983, 241 Marines killed when the barracks in Beirut truck bombed

I assumed ( I remember it because I was a senior in highschool and we talked about it extensively in civics class) it was that but wasn't aware that Libya had anything to do with that

Reagan didn't bomb Libya until 1986 and supposedly in retaliation over a terrorist bombing on a nightclub in Germany
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: blacken700 on March 22, 2011, 09:13:42 AM
 air strikes were in retaliation  for Berlin disco bombing
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Straw Man on March 22, 2011, 09:14:48 AM
He's confused.  Don't stress him over it, just post the wiki link for him to read.

funny - I assumed he would do a little research before posting - if for no other reason then to check what he already "knows" to make sure it's correct

Reagans response to the direct attack on our marines was basically to cut and run

Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: blacken700 on March 22, 2011, 09:15:16 AM
i think he had a bachman moment  ;D
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Hugo Chavez on March 22, 2011, 09:16:11 AM
I assumed ( I remember it because I was a senior in highschool and we talked about it extensively in civics class) it was that but wasn't aware that Libya had anything to do with that

Reagan didn't bomb Libya until 1986 and supposedly in retaliation over a terrorist bombing on a nightclub in Germany
exactly
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Hugo Chavez on March 22, 2011, 09:19:51 AM
The bombing still involved US servicemen he just got the events mixed up.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 22, 2011, 09:22:32 AM
The bombing still involved US servicemen he just got the events mixed up.

With so many kind acts of peace in that region over their peaceful history, its hard to keep track sometimes.  But like I said t involved retaliating for dead marines.   

So I guess now the libs in favor of this equate dead marines in thesame level of important as jihadis, al quada, etc since those "rebels" are filled to grills with jidadist elements.  .     
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: kcballer on March 22, 2011, 09:22:39 AM
Wow this is actually a solid thread.  Good points on both sides and not a spam attack of Obama pictures and youtubes.  Congrats getbig some actual debate!

My 2 cents.  I agree with the position taken by Obama.  I've said all along that if this has NATO support or UN support then we should act.  The US however, can not be drawn into this as the only combatant.  There are still a ton of issue that need to be worked out, but as has been posted, i believe inaction would have led to a mass genocide of the rebels.  
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Neurotoxin on March 22, 2011, 09:23:47 AM

A real President.    Unike the present piece of trash.    




Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Hugo Chavez on March 22, 2011, 09:24:35 AM
With so many kind acts of peace in that region over their peaceful history, its hard to keep track sometimes.  But like I said t involved retaliating for dead marines.   

So I guess now the libs in favor of this equate dead marines in thesame level of important as jihadis, al quada, etc since those "rebels" are filled to grills with jidadist elements.  .     
It's ok to actually say, "oops, sorry, I got that wrong"  I've done it several times.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Hugo Chavez on March 22, 2011, 09:26:08 AM
Wow this is actually a solid thread.  Good points on both sides and not a spam attack of Obama pictures and youtubes.  Congrats getbig some actual debate!

My 2 cents.  I agree with the position taken by Obama.  I've said all along that if this has NATO support or UN support then we should act.  The US however, can not be drawn into this as the only combatant.  There are still a ton of issue that need to be worked out, but as has been posted, i believe inaction would have led to a mass genocide of the rebels.  
You missing the old days here too?  We had threads going like this all the time for a while...  But it kinda fell to shit...
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 22, 2011, 09:26:36 AM
It's ok to actually say, "oops, sorry, I got that wrong"  I've done it several times.

I mixed up the terrorist acts.  Ooopsss.   I'm now PWNED!  
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Straw Man on March 22, 2011, 09:28:48 AM
The bombing still involved US servicemen he just got the events mixed up.

yep so the "rationale" he thought he was giving you was completely wrong

and Reagans response was (per Wiki - though again I recall the events myself)

Quote
The U.S. Marines were moved offshore where they could not be targeted. On February 7, 1984, President Reagan ordered the Marines to begin withdrawing from Lebanon. Their withdrawal was completed on February 26, four months after the barracks bombing; the rest of the multinational force was withdrawn by April 1984.

I can only imagine the 100's of vitriolic posts from 333 if this was Obama's response to such an event
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Hugo Chavez on March 22, 2011, 09:29:58 AM
I mixed up the terrorist acts.  Ooopsss.   I'm now PWNED!  
::)  It's not ownage making a mistake, the ownage comes if you don't own up to it.  We all goof, the problem is when we try to cover it up.  It's all good, no ownage for admitting a mistake.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Straw Man on March 22, 2011, 09:31:54 AM
::)  It's not ownage making a mistake, the ownage comes if you don't own up to it.  We all goof, the problem is when we try to cover it up.  It's all good, no ownage for admitting a mistake.

I agree

not ownage

but definitely a pattern of carelessness
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Hugo Chavez on March 22, 2011, 09:33:39 AM
I agree

not ownage

but definitely a pattern of carelessness
I got no beef whatsoever, he owned it, it's all good, we all screw up...  one issue at a time.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: blacken700 on March 22, 2011, 09:36:27 AM
I mixed up the terrorist acts.  Ooopsss.   I'm now PWNED!  


new hamshire, Massachusetts, continent, country it's all good, your in good company  ;D
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Straw Man on March 22, 2011, 09:38:06 AM
I got no beef whatsoever, he owned it, it's all good, we all screw up...  one issue at a time.

I'm not belaboring the point (not beyond here at least)

I'm sure he'll do something similar again soon enough

Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Hugo Chavez on March 22, 2011, 09:45:42 AM
I'm not belaboring the point (not beyond here at least)

I'm sure he'll do something similar again soon enough


maybe, but I don't think it's important to go there.  This was really a minor oops and he owned up to it.  That's the part that I would love to see more of on this board.  There are thousands of threads here that go on and on because someone is trying to cover up for their error.  3333 is good in my book on this occation and I hope others follow his example.  Few people own up to their goofs here.  I wish more would...  I always have and have never been attacked for admitting a mistake.  I would love for others to do the same as it would really benefit the overall debate on this forum.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Fury on March 22, 2011, 09:46:46 AM
We need to support our allies, simple as that.

The British have supported us in Afghanistan and Irak as well

No, we don't. The British govt. was up to its neck in the negotiations for releasing the Lockerbie bomber for oil. The only reason France and England are doing anything at all is because they have oil interests at stake, not because they actually care about the people. But unlike France and England, Libya is of no strategic value to the US.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Fury on March 22, 2011, 09:48:55 AM
And for all you pathetic advocates of this intervention on the basis that it's preventing a "humanitarian crisis", does that mean you're also advocating for military interventions in Bahrain, Yemen, Syria, Iran, China and other countries because the ones listed are brutalizing their people as we speak.

Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Straw Man on March 22, 2011, 09:52:32 AM
maybe, but I don't think it's important to go there.  This was really a minor oops and he owned up to it.  That's the part that I would love to see more of on this board.  There are thousands of threads here that go on and on because someone is trying to cover up for their error.  3333 is good in my book on this occation and I hope others follow his example.  Few people own up to their goofs here.  I wish more would...  I always have and have never been attacked for admitting a mistake.  I would love for others to do the same as it would really benefit the overall debate on this forum.

I already agreed it was not ownage

I'd like to see more factual debate of this board and less of the nonsense that seems to be the norm on this board
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Dos Equis on March 22, 2011, 09:56:29 AM
(CNSNews.com) - As a presidential candidate, Sen. Barack Obama (D.-Ill.) emphatically stated that the Constitution does not give the president the authority to unilaterally authorize a military attack unless it is needed to stop an actual or imminent attack on the United States.

Obama made the assertion in a Dec. 20, 2007 interview with the Boston Globe when reporter Charlie Savage asked him under what circumstances the president would have the constitutional authority to bomb Iran without first seeking authorization from Congress.

“The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation,” Obama responded.


Hoisted by his own petard. 
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: RUDE BUOY on March 22, 2011, 09:57:15 AM
And for all you pathetic advocates of this intervention on the basis that it's preventing a "humanitarian crisis", does that mean you're also advocating for military interventions in Bahrain, Yemen, Syria, Iran, China and other countries because the ones listed are brutalizing their people as we speak.


amen
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 22, 2011, 10:00:16 AM
amen

How about we intervene in Camden, Detroit, Bed Stuy, St. louis, Compton, etc?
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Fury on March 22, 2011, 10:01:55 AM
amen

It's a pathetic double standard. Especially coming from places like the UN, who sat there and did nothing while hundreds of thousands of native black Darfurians were genocided by the Arab Muslim janjaweed. Now THAT was an event that warranted intervention.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: RUDE BUOY on March 22, 2011, 10:22:03 AM
How about we intervene in Camden, Detroit, Bed Stuy, St. louis, Compton, etc?
how bout we dont make guns liquor and drugs available with a block of each other in those areas
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: loco on March 22, 2011, 10:25:25 AM
Not saying I like it but....

Neither McCarthy nor Somin mention, however, the War Powers Act, which was passed in the wake of the Vietnam War in an effort to reign in Presidential war power, but which actually enhances that power greatly and gives the President the ability to commit U.S. military forces without seeking Congressional approval under a wide variety of circumstances. As summarized by Wikipedia, the Act “requires the president to notify Congress within 48 hours of committing armed forces to military action and forbids armed forces from remaining for more than 60 days, with a further 30 day withdrawal period, without an authorization of the use of military force or a declaration of war.”

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/congress-the-president-and-war-powers-under-the-constitution/

Though Obama seems to be operating by the law, I still think this law is unconstitutional.  Many laws in the US seem to be.  Sometimes it seems people in the US government wipe their butts with the US constitution.  That can't end well.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 22, 2011, 10:26:29 AM
Though Obama seems to be operating by the law, I still think this law is unconstitutional.  Many laws in the US seem to be.  Sometimes it seems people in the US government wipe their butts with the US constitution.  That can't end well.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: GigantorX on March 22, 2011, 10:50:56 AM
And for all you pathetic advocates of this intervention on the basis that it's preventing a "humanitarian crisis", does that mean you're also advocating for military interventions in Bahrain, Yemen, Syria, Iran, China and other countries because the ones listed are brutalizing their people as we speak.



The govt. will pick and chose, simple as that. Libya has oil and access to waterways, we don't buy the oil but a few of our allies do. There is your answer, although Bahrain is home to the 5th fleet.

This just seems so clusterfuckish from the lead up, the justification (was there one?) the allies involved and the Arab Leage going one way then another.

The problems with this are many: How long do we continue this attacks/no fly zone? Are ground forces really off the table? What are the aims of this operation? Is it to topple the Col. or bomb stuff, blow up SAM sites? If it isn't to topple the Col., then why are we even bothering with this? Who are the rebels and what are their intentions? What do they want at the end of all of this? Will they be friendly towards the West or a wild card?

And really, have any of these questions been answered? What the fuck is going on? I can't see this ending well and having a lasting positive effect. If the "coalition" (NATO? UN? WTF?) bombs and bombs and bombs and the Col. is still in charge at the end....that won't look very good on an already shaky resume. As BF said, if we don't intervene in other countries that are in the same situation, how will that look? What will the Arab Street and the world say/react to us leaving non-oil exporting countries alone to die in a revolutionary fire?

This isn't good. If France/UK want the oil then go get it. We shouldn't be bombing Libya, at least not under some real, real, real shaky pretense and no clear goals and no clear outs and no clear plan.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Hugo Chavez on March 22, 2011, 10:59:52 AM
Though Obama seems to be operating by the law, I still think this law is unconstitutional.  Many laws in the US seem to be.  Sometimes it seems people in the US government wipe their butts with the US constitution.  That can't end well.
yea, a lot of people have had a beef with that for a long time.  It goes way back.  Obama is just the latest to pile on.

But here's the way it goes: I've been protesting, bitching, posting, writing about this shit for 15 years or so.  I'm starting to get up there in age, have a family and becoming less and less involved as time goes on.  The next gen is coming along and while they seem to be totally fucking oblivious to me, I assume they are going to start bitching too...  Only problem with that is they are inherriting a government more out of control and a world more out of control than I started with.  It's WTF for me, but the norm for them.  Down the road, the WTF for them will be OMFG for me and I'll be an old man.

The one thing I've tried to tell people is to judge things by the direction it sets and see what's next to come.  To try to think about what is next if we allow this or that to happen.  I've spent years being laughed at and mocked for that...  I don't know what else there is to do or say, it's feels pointless and perhaps that's the years and age setting in.  It is what it is but some people tried...
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Option D on March 22, 2011, 11:22:08 AM
Teh Libyans had the weapons of mass destruction the whole time and obama had to react man he did it for us man. Obama almost died for us man


BOOOM!!!! AN IM OUT DIS BITCH!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 22, 2011, 11:26:04 AM

BOOOM!!!! AN IM OUT DIS BITCH!!!!!!!!!!!

Wrong you asswipe and obama dildo and 95% er, Gadaffi gave them up over the past 8 years and has cooperated with giving up radical islamists in Libya. 

Of course yur master, hero, messiah, and lord savior can't have that since he supports the MB elements within the rebels, so now gadaffi must o since it advances jihad, islamism, etc.     
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Fury on March 22, 2011, 11:26:52 AM

BOOOM!!!! AN IM OUT DIS BITCH!!!!!!!!!!!

He's being facetious.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: RUDE BUOY on March 22, 2011, 11:27:21 AM
He's being facetious.
undeed
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: loco on March 22, 2011, 11:49:07 AM
(CNSNews.com) - As a presidential candidate, Sen. Barack Obama (D.-Ill.) emphatically stated that the Constitution does not give the president the authority to unilaterally authorize a military attack unless it is needed to stop an actual or imminent attack on the United States.

Obama made the assertion in a Dec. 20, 2007 interview with the Boston Globe when reporter Charlie Savage asked him under what circumstances the president would have the constitutional authority to bomb Iran without first seeking authorization from Congress.

“The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation,” Obama responded.


This just shows that the President of the USA is not the one in charge.  Who is?  I don't know.  

Maybe the world is run by powerful bankers who are occasionally visited by extraterrestrials who tell them in general what to do.  The bankers take care of the details.  The rest of us are just ants.  
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Hugo Chavez on March 22, 2011, 11:51:56 AM
wow, Im not sure what just happened lol...
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: loco on March 22, 2011, 11:59:09 AM
wow, Im not sure what just happened lol...

All joking aside, it does show that Obama is not in charge.  He is doing a lot of the same Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld did.  He is doing a lot that goes against everything he ever said or supposedly believes.   I know politicians often say one thing and then do another, but this is different.  Obama is often acting like a far right wing, neo-con, neo-capitalist, teabagger.  
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: tu_holmes on March 22, 2011, 12:00:53 PM
While I know this isn't an answer to the question about Reagan, but I'm pretty sure ALL of the Vietnam conflict was simply a police action dictated by the Presidents at the time.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Option D on March 22, 2011, 12:03:12 PM
Wrong you asswipe and obama dildo and 95% er, Gadaffi gave them up over the past 8 years and has cooperated with giving up radical islamists in Libya. 

Of course yur master, hero, messiah, and lord savior can't have that since he supports the MB elements within the rebels, so now gadaffi must o since it advances jihad, islamism, etc.     


lol.. shut up fag...lol
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: RUDE BUOY on March 22, 2011, 12:03:40 PM

lol.. shut up fag...lol
BOOMZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Option D on March 22, 2011, 12:05:07 PM
He's being facetious.

i was joking..man you "US Vs. THEM" dudes are wound pretty tight..
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 22, 2011, 12:05:32 PM

lol.. shut up fag...lol

I'm not defending Gadaffi, but get the fucking record straight moron.    
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Option D on March 22, 2011, 12:06:20 PM
I'm not defending Gadaffi, but get the fucking record straight moron.    


still i have no clue of what youre talking about.. but at any rate...


shut up fag
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: OzmO on March 22, 2011, 12:06:50 PM
All joking aside, it does show that Obama is not in charge.  He is doing a lot of the same Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld did.  He is doing a lot that goes against everything he ever said or supposedly believes.   I know politicians often say one thing and then do another, but this is different.  Obama is often acting like a far right wing, neo-con, neo-capitalist, teabagger.  

Yeah i have always believed foreign policy changes little from president to president.  
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: RUDE BUOY on March 22, 2011, 12:07:00 PM

still i have no clue of what youre talking about.. but at any rate...


shut up fag
so dis man a ass pirate?
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Option D on March 22, 2011, 12:08:06 PM
so dis man a ass pirate?

no doubts.. man o man.. i bet hes the type of guy that... ......hahahahahahaha
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 22, 2011, 12:09:41 PM
no doubts.. man o man.. i bet hes the type of guy that... ......hahahahahahaha

Hope & Change!

2012 "It could have been worse"


ha ha a ha!!! 
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Option D on March 22, 2011, 12:11:17 PM
Hope & Change!

2012 "It could have been worse"


ha ha a ha!!! 

hey Richard Simmons
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: RUDE BUOY on March 22, 2011, 12:11:30 PM
no doubts.. man o man.. i bet hes the type of guy that... ......hahahahahahaha
lol the good ole days
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Option D on March 22, 2011, 12:16:24 PM
for sure.. this tiny takes teh protien from Tap...
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: RUDE BUOY on March 22, 2011, 12:39:07 PM
for sure.. this tiny takes teh protien from Tap...
are you saying that 333 is the kinda guy who is the first to suggest playing hide the sausage in the bun at poker night?
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 22, 2011, 12:42:35 PM
are you saying that 333 is the kinda guy who is the first to suggest playing hide the sausage in the bun at poker night?

Option FAIL is again left to nothing but insults as kneepadding obama has failed once again.   
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: 240 is Back on March 22, 2011, 12:44:24 PM
33,

do you agree with beach bum that this is not illegal action on obama's part?
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: RUDE BUOY on March 22, 2011, 12:44:57 PM
Option FAIL is again left to nothing but insults as kneepadding obama has failed once again.   
obama is a shady fuck just like all that were before him
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Option D on March 22, 2011, 12:50:13 PM
rude.. this fuckin assclown ignores the fact that i say i disagree with just about everything obama had done.. like 48 times i said that to this prick...but because he is with the All Or none shit.. he feels i kneepad obama..

this fag comes on here and makes up blatant lies.. but im the fucked up one
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 22, 2011, 12:52:36 PM
rude.. this fuckin assclown ignores the fact that i say i disagree with just about everything obama had done.. like 48 times i said that to this prick...but because he is with the All Or none shit.. he feels i kneepad obama..

this fag comes on here and makes up blatant lies.. but im the fucked up one


LMFAO 

Holla! 
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: RUDE BUOY on March 22, 2011, 01:11:42 PM
rude.. this fuckin assclown ignores the fact that i say i disagree with just about everything obama had done.. like 48 times i said that to this prick...but because he is with the All Or none shit.. he feels i kneepad obama..

this fag comes on here and makes up blatant lies.. but im the fucked up one
lol i feel you man our generation can talk about this bullshit till we are blue in the face but the only reason we can talk about such things so in depth is because the way news and what everyone does is so accessible now a days. These fools in office have been shady and only out for their own best interests since the words don't tread on me were first uttered obama aint the first he aint the last
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: whork25 on March 23, 2011, 01:49:58 AM
And for all you pathetic advocates of this intervention on the basis that it's preventing a "humanitarian crisis", does that mean you're also advocating for military interventions in Bahrain, Yemen, Syria, Iran, China and other countries because the ones listed are brutalizing their people as we speak.



From a humanitarian/christian stand-point yes
Using common sence no
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: whork25 on March 23, 2011, 01:51:05 AM
No, we don't. The British govt. was up to its neck in the negotiations for releasing the Lockerbie bomber for oil. The only reason France and England are doing anything at all is because they have oil interests at stake, not because they actually care about the people. But unlike France and England, Libya is of no strategic value to the US.

Afghanistan and Irak has no strategic value to the British either so..
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: loco on March 23, 2011, 05:34:09 AM
Yeah i have always believed foreign policy changes little from president to president.  

Not just foreign policy.  Like Clinton and like Bush, Obama is doing nothing to regulate derivatives.  That's a huge part of what destroyed the economy, and it will destroy the economy again soon if nothing is done about this.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: whork25 on March 23, 2011, 05:51:45 AM
Not just foreign policy.  Like Clinton and like Bush, Obama is doing nothing to regulate derivatives.  That's a huge part of what destroyed the economy, and it will destroy the economy again soon if nothing is done about this.

Good point sir
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Option D on March 23, 2011, 06:21:31 AM
Not just foreign policy.  Like Clinton and like Bush, Obama is doing nothing to regulate derivatives.  That's a huge part of what destroyed the economy, and it will destroy the economy again soon if nothing is done about this.

Explain please...
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: kcballer on March 23, 2011, 09:27:42 AM
wow, Im not sure what just happened lol...

And just like that we have the spam pictures, the youtubes, insults etc

All we need is the 'mobacca' reference and et pictures to make this thread complete. 

Come on 333 you know you want to...
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Fury on March 23, 2011, 09:29:32 AM
Afghanistan and Irak has no strategic value to the British either so..

There you go again rationalizing Obama's actions by comparing him to Bush, the guy you far-lefties say was the worst president ever, you illiterate high-school dropout.
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: loco on March 23, 2011, 09:47:06 AM
Explain please...

Sure:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/warning/view/
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Option D on March 23, 2011, 10:31:10 AM
so you think government intervention/regulation should have exisited in the stock market?
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 23, 2011, 10:32:16 AM
so you think government intervention/regulation should have exisited in the stock market?

We had an effective one that Clinton got rid of due to Geithner, Summers, Rubin, Greenspan 
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: loco on March 23, 2011, 10:33:45 AM
so you think government intervention/regulation should have exisited in the stock market?

Not necessarily for the entire stock market.  For the derivatives market?  Definitely!
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: GigantorX on March 23, 2011, 10:37:23 AM
So after reading/listening to whats going on in Libya I've learned that:

1.)The French are in charge? Is it NATO? The U.S. will use force for a little bit then stop? The Arab League wanted a no fly zone until the NFZ included blowing stuff up? No wait, it's the UN that's running the show, right?

2.)There is no clearly stated goal or outcome that has been stated. It's a humanitarian mission but Obama said it was time for the good Col. to go, but now he has said this isn't about deposing the Col. Is it because of oil in general? Or is it because the French want their oil company Total (spelling) to be back in the saddle?

3.)The Germans want nothing to do with it.

4.)Even with the "Coalitions" help the rebels are being pushed back.

5.) Because of 4, the rebels are asking for more "help".

6.)Obama has now stated that the international community has an absolute obligation to intervene in any scenario where a nations leader is attacking the civilian population with the military. This opens up a gigantic can of worms.


7.)And another huge questions that has yet to be, and probably won't be, answered: What constitutes a "humanitarian mission"? How do we know that the Col. is slaughtering civilians in far flung Libyan towns? Is a nations leader fighting armed rebels an actions against civilians?

We are several days into major offensive actions and the "partners" in this mission have yet to even agree upon a command structure. What the fuck is going on?
Title: Re: Didn't Reagan go off attacking other nations without approval of congress?
Post by: andreisdaman on March 23, 2011, 11:30:39 AM
Reagan was an awesome president..he attacked Libya....I think he also attacked Panama...or was that Bush I?