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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: njanvi on May 26, 2011, 06:59:26 AM

Title: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: njanvi on May 26, 2011, 06:59:26 AM
First, I must say, obviously this is a bodybuilding site and we all here have a certain view of "supplements". To each its own when it comes to using, our bodies, our choice. Personally, I think athletes should be able to use whatever they want. I have no issues with people using. Lance Armstrong however if the allegations are true, technically defrauded the govt (postal service team-remember) and arguably (for a good cause ironically) has defrauded millions of others with a feel good story all based on a lie, not to mentioned blantantly brided foreign officials which is against the law. Lance in my mind is a crook and I have no issues with the govt throwing the book at him.
Do you guys feel differently?

btw, I know people will highlight the cost of the investigation, can't say that I can really defend that, other to say, the law is the law and it cost money to enforce it.
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: supernick on May 26, 2011, 07:16:20 AM
drugs or no drugs,,, he won 7 tour de france's. Its not like the other bikers were not using.
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: delta9mda on May 26, 2011, 07:25:44 AM
drugs or no drugs,,, he won 7 tour de france's. Its not like the other bikers were not using.
exactly. im not saying lance didnt use but he was the most tested rider and never came up positive.
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: Sofa King on May 26, 2011, 07:28:25 AM
Bodybuilding is the only sport/activity where steroid use is more or less an accepted part of it, still illegal but everyone knows that bodybuilders all use just by looking at them and the powers that be don't care.

Other sports need to come out of the closet already and admit it.... say "hey if you don't like it go and start a natural league in the boondocks but if you want to continue to see real competition we're the only game in town."

It's 2011 already... the world isn't flat... wrestling isn't real and athletes use steroids, time to get over it.
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: Tito24 on May 26, 2011, 07:30:24 AM
if i had taken that stuff i could have done 7 tour de frances as wel
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: Dr Dutch on May 26, 2011, 07:31:50 AM
if i had taken that stuff i could have done 7 tour de frances as wel
He could have done it naturally. It would only take longer.
And those drugs are just the finishing 2% after all.... ;)
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: Disgusted on May 26, 2011, 08:39:22 AM
First, I must say, obviously this is a bodybuilding site and we all here have a certain view of "supplements". To each its own when it comes to using, our bodies, our choice. Personally, I think athletes should be able to use whatever they want. I have no issues with people using. Lance Armstrong however if the allegations are true, technically defrauded the govt (postal service team-remember) and arguably (for a good cause ironically) has defrauded millions of others with a feel good story all based on a lie, not to mentioned blantantly brided foreign officials which is against the law. Lance in my mind is a crook and I have no issues with the govt throwing the book at him.
Do you guys feel differently?

btw, I know people will highlight the cost of the investigation, can't say that I can really defend that, other to say, the law is the law and it cost money to enforce it.


So why do you think Lance is a crook?
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: jaejonna on May 26, 2011, 08:44:22 AM
I dont care if he did or didnt, or really anything related to cycling but dont tell us your drug free and then have like 15 guys say you did it in front of him or hell even hooked others up with.
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: Big Worm on May 26, 2011, 08:53:48 AM
First, I must say, obviously this is a bodybuilding site and we all here have a certain view of "supplements". To each its own when it comes to using, our bodies, our choice. Personally, I think athletes should be able to use whatever they want. I have no issues with people using. Lance Armstrong however if the allegations are true, technically defrauded the govt (postal service team-remember) and arguably (for a good cause ironically) has defrauded millions of others with a feel good story all based on a lie, not to mentioned blantantly brided foreign officials which is against the law. Lance in my mind is a crook and I have no issues with the govt throwing the book at him.
Do you guys feel differently?

btw, I know people will highlight the cost of the investigation, can't say that I can really defend that, other to say, the law is the law and it cost money to enforce it.
He did(on steroids)what the others could not do(on steroids).. So what's the big deal? They all were on,so...... it was fair,no?
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: oldtimer1 on May 26, 2011, 08:57:43 AM
So everyone in the Tour de France was using performance drugs?  You guys are nuts.  I'll tell you what's true in bodybuilding.  Everyone in the Olympia is using drugs. If one guy wasn't using in the Tour de France he should be declared the champion. 
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: Big Worm on May 26, 2011, 09:00:28 AM
So everyone in the Tour de France was using performance drugs?  You guys are nuts.  I'll tell you what's true in bodybuilding.  Everyone in the Olympia is using drugs. If one guy wasn't using in the Tour de France he should be declared the champion. 
You think they're not? You're the crazy one..
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: Agnostic007 on May 26, 2011, 09:04:52 AM
He was the most tested athlete in the sport according to reports. It's now a he said she said situation and barring any impirical evidence to say otherwise, he wins. He has the test results on his side, they have their words on their side. It's a non issue at this point.   
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: ManBearPig... on May 26, 2011, 09:08:22 AM

So why do you think Lance is a crook?

yeah i know.  just because of his last name, people automatically assume he's black a crook.
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: Hulkotron on May 26, 2011, 09:11:09 AM
Basically the French are assholes.
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: BayGBM on May 26, 2011, 09:19:46 AM
I am all for PED but you do not enter a contest that is ostensibly drug free while using and then pretend to be a winner.  It's like a steroid user entering a natural BB contest... Not cool. >:(

I do not care how many tests he "passed" I believe his teammates who said they were all using. ::)
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: sync pulse on May 26, 2011, 09:19:56 AM
So he used performance enhancing drugs,...if it was under a doctor's supervision,...so what?
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: BayGBM on May 26, 2011, 09:21:06 AM
Bodybuilding is the only sport/activity where steroid use is more or less an accepted part of it, still illegal but everyone knows that bodybuilders all use just by looking at them and the powers that be don't care.

Other sports need to come out of the closet already and admit it.... say "hey if you don't like it go and start a natural league in the boondocks but if you want to continue to see real competition we're the only game in town."

It's 2011 already... the world isn't flat... wrestling isn't real and athletes use steroids, time to get over it.


Cannot argue with that.  The genie is out of the bottle.
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: Disgusted on May 26, 2011, 09:23:06 AM
I am all for PED but you do not enter a contest that is ostensibly drug free while using and then pretend to be a winner.  It's like a steroid user entering a natural BB contest... Not cool. >:(

I do not care how many tests he "passed" I believe his teammates who said they were all using. ::)

So I guess it must be true since "they said"  ::) Guess no need for a trial.
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: chaos on May 26, 2011, 09:25:16 AM
Lol @ how its always AFTER the fact a teammate jumps up with the info....someone tell that twat that its too late to be a hero and he just comes off as a bitter forgotten teammate.
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: Nails on May 26, 2011, 09:26:05 AM
who cares, its just a dude on a bicycle who peddles in gay ass france
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: Noel Fuller on May 26, 2011, 09:27:05 AM
Worth millions , know worldwide, dates hotties, ya I feel terrible for him.
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: BayGBM on May 26, 2011, 09:38:01 AM
who cares, its just a dude on a bicycle who peddles in gay ass france

x2
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: BayGBM on May 26, 2011, 09:39:40 AM
So I guess it must be true since "they said"  ::) Guess no need for a trial.

You sit around and wait for "a trial" . . . the rest of us have moved on.  ::)
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: CalvinH on May 26, 2011, 09:40:40 AM
Lol @ how its always AFTER the fact a teammate jumps up with the info....someone tell that twat that its too late to be a hero and he just comes off as a bitter forgotten teammate.


"Nothing better then having some friends over and serving some wine and cheese and watching the Tour de France"
 ;) ;D
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: viking1 on May 26, 2011, 09:50:36 AM
Professional Cycling is a very dirty sport. Another multi-million dollar business with BIG money and BIG egos. These teams have the funds to hire the best 'drug doctors' in the world. One(or more) step ahead of the testing protocols year round.  There Doc's have it down to, literally, a two hour window of taking gear that won't be detected during a same day test. It's incredible how dialed in they have it. They're creating gear that the UCI doesn't even have a test for yet.

And Lance, is the basically the leader of the cycling mafia. He has a lot of power and connections to do what he wants.



Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: Donny on May 26, 2011, 09:53:20 AM
ALL money making sports are doped and rigged.
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: Nasty Nate on May 26, 2011, 10:06:28 AM
They were all taking stuff and Lance was the best. These guys dedicate their lives to this sport and will stop at nothing to improve... As soon as one guy hears about something being able to improve his physical ability and that someone else is taking it he's gonna take it too. It's not cheating if you're just levelling the playing field. Bodybuilding is the same as all those sports in that regard. Whoever is willing to put the most work in and dedicate themselves the most deserves it.
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: Heywood on May 26, 2011, 10:25:18 AM
If he has always passed the tests, then what was he taking?

I'm not sure I understand it.  What is he supposed to do other than take all the tests?

I mean, what did he do or not do that shows drug use?


Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: Agnostic007 on May 26, 2011, 10:26:06 AM
I am all for PED but you do not enter a contest that is ostensibly drug free while using and then pretend to be a winner.  It's like a steroid user entering a natural BB contest... Not cool. >:(

I do not care how many tests he "passed" I believe his teammates who said they were all using. ::)

I think he probably used them.. but I can't prove it, neither can they.. so unless they can offer some hard evidence, they can't/won't/shouldn't strip him of the wins..
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: Agnostic007 on May 26, 2011, 10:28:02 AM

And Lance, is the basically the leader of the cycling mafia. He has a lot of power and connections to do what he wants.





He didn't his first or second win....
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: TrueGrit on May 26, 2011, 10:32:39 AM

My gut feeling is that it's such a 'dirty' that they were all using. In that case it's a level playing field and he was legitimately the best.


Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: oakman on May 26, 2011, 10:36:34 AM
it shouldnt matter now. Its been years.  And exposing him just shows young children that to achieve his level steroids are the only option.
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: HockeyFightFan on May 26, 2011, 10:47:03 AM
Lance Armstrong is a goddamn american hero, went to France, kicked their euro-fag asses on their home turf, came home and fucked Sheryl Crow.

Period.....end of story.
 ;D
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: viking1 on May 26, 2011, 10:47:33 AM
He didn't his first or second win....

Not as much power back then, but still a lot. By being the "next" American Cyclist to win The Tour, he helped give the bicycle industry a jump start in the US retail market....  and sponsors were doing just about anything that he asked for. Anyone who questioned him would be mysteriously let go or fired. He had a vested interest in Trek Bicycles, Powerbar, Carmicheal Training Systems, etc.

Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: chaos on May 26, 2011, 10:51:43 AM
Hi douchebag writing the book.

::)
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: Donny on May 26, 2011, 11:29:13 AM
Lance Armstrong is a goddamn american hero, went to France, kicked their euro-fag asses on their home turf, came home and fucked Sheryl Crow.

Period.....end of story.
 ;D

well fuck me you American Redneck Asshole
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: local hero on May 26, 2011, 12:14:26 PM
cycling is as reliant on drugs as bodybuilding is, no ones cycling all day and sprinting at the end of it on bannanas and energy bars....

for that matter no ones breaking sprinting records with being swimming in whatever substance is ahead of the game

i could carry this on for almost everysport

i wish i still had the  naivety that some people still have
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: njanvi on May 26, 2011, 12:18:33 PM
You guys are ignoring the elephant in the room.
Look, he was the best cheater in a lot of cheaters, I say good for him. It's his body, he can do with it as he pleases. That said, I guess no different than Roger Clemens, the guy is going around pretending he's the only Saint in a sport full of devils, and he defrauded the government in the process.  That's pretty distasteful and frankly pretty sad!
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: Heywood on May 26, 2011, 12:26:20 PM
Are these IOC level (approved) tests or some other protocol?
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: Dr Dutch on May 26, 2011, 12:47:08 PM
Dr Dutch says: 100% (not 98%) of these TdF cyclists use gear.
Same as Pro (and top amateur) BB.
Cyclists' muscles would just burn away in a week otherwise.

The winners are the ones with the best gear, the best physiological response to gear and the smartest methods of cheating/bribing the controlls.
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: local hero on May 26, 2011, 12:52:48 PM
i agree with the above upto a point, take away the drugs and the same man will win

and cycling is 100% doped, and has been for a very long time

one of the most extreme sports going
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: MadCroc29 on May 26, 2011, 12:53:52 PM
The guys got 1 nut half the natty test of other guys give hime a break
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: OTHstrong on May 26, 2011, 01:12:41 PM
You guys are ignoring the elephant in the room.
Look, he was the best cheater in a lot of cheaters, I say good for him. It's his body, he can do with it as he pleases. That said, I guess no different than Roger Clemens, the guy is going around pretending he's the only Saint in a sport full of devils, and he defrauded the government in the process.  That's pretty distasteful and frankly pretty sad!
Listen, the path he chose in life is made of agony, pain, discomfort day in day out. The man went to hell and back to be number one... This is called class, principle, dedication, discipline, integrity, and drive, the stuff real men are made of and an insignificant nothing like you wants to crucify him. One year of training yields more pain then your entire life's worth combined, fact. Anyone with have a brain knows that any drugs that were taken only puts him on an even playing field anyway. Now that his work is done he lives the glorious life, for everyone of you there is 10 that feel he is a hero, not to mentions fame, fortune for life...but you feel sorry for him.
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: notsureifsrs on May 26, 2011, 01:24:48 PM
Bodybuilding is the only sport/activity where steroid use is more or less an accepted part of it, still illegal but everyone knows that bodybuilders all use just by looking at them and the powers that be don't care.

Other sports need to come out of the closet already and admit it.... say "hey if you don't like it go and start a natural league in the boondocks but if you want to continue to see real competition we're the only game in town."

It's 2011 already... the world isn't flat... wrestling isn't real and athletes use steroids, time to get over it.

Anyone with a brain know that in order to place somewhere at the tour de france you need massive amount of drugs.

It's just that in bodybuilding it's visible directly on the competitor, while in other sports it's visible on the scores.
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: The Abdominal Snoman on May 26, 2011, 01:28:17 PM
Sure Lance Armstrong is a champion. And regardless of allegations you can't take that away from him. And what he's done for the cancer society also deserves mentioning. But the kicker is that Lance Armstrong was supposed to be untouchable. He was protected by the Hierarchy because of the whole Cancer thing. And the reason "they" are now going after him is because he is known to be a complete douchebag. He's supposedly Lou Ferrigno douchyX10.
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: Dreadlifter on May 26, 2011, 02:30:54 PM
Cycling's probably the most drug-fuelled sport out there, has been for many many years. A lot of other sports have it to thank for putting in work on the likes of EPO.
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: The Grim Lifter on May 26, 2011, 02:35:26 PM
They all use many things in cycling. More variation than bodybuilding. Lance was just the best trainer, probably better genetics, also better team in the race.

Athletes from any sport where money is at stake (and even bodybuilding where there's fuck all) use drugs. But people have the belief that steroids = bigger muscles, mainly due to bodybuilders taking them so Lance can get away with saying he's natural. For now.

Remember even in bodybuilding we have douches like Skip saying he's natural at his size. So many many people believe unless you are bigger than him, you are natural. Even movie actors like in Batman/James Bond etc.
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: sync pulse on May 26, 2011, 02:41:10 PM
There are Performance Enhancing Drugs intended for symphonic musicians...the doctor who used to do my bloodwork and write my cypionate prescription told me about them.
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: Largerthanlife on May 26, 2011, 03:13:22 PM
First, I must say, obviously this is a bodybuilding site and we all here have a certain view of "supplements". To each its own when it comes to using, our bodies, our choice. Personally, I think athletes should be able to use whatever they want. I have no issues with people using. Lance Armstrong however if the allegations are true, technically defrauded the govt (postal service team-remember) and arguably (for a good cause ironically) has defrauded millions of others with a feel good story all based on a lie, not to mentioned blantantly brided foreign officials which is against the law. Lance in my mind is a crook and I have no issues with the govt throwing the book at him.
Do you guys feel differently?

btw, I know people will highlight the cost of the investigation, can't say that I can really defend that, other to say, the law is the law and it cost money to enforce it.

dude it's too long ago, no way to get a case together and have it stand trial, Lance's legacy will live forever, the people accusing him of drugs will just get yelled at to shut their mouths.  It's all hearsay, no facts.



Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: Moontrane on May 26, 2011, 04:23:41 PM
Lance Armstrong is a goddamn american hero, went to France, kicked their euro-fag asses on their home turf, came home and fucked Sheryl Crow.

Period.....end of story.
 ;D


And one of the Olsen twins.  ;D
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: chris-a on May 26, 2011, 04:37:27 PM
There are Performance Enhancing Drugs intended for symphonic musicians...the doctor who used to do my bloodwork and write my cypionate prescription told me about them.

they're all on beta blockers...
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: The Abdominal Snoman on May 26, 2011, 06:21:38 PM
Some people have stated that Lance is so fucked in the head that he had some sort of underground Doc cut off one of his balls and draft up phony reports about Lance having Cancer. Lance did this because he knew he would then be allowed to take synthetic hormones to make up for the lost ball. And then go on and win a shit load of events.
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: Wiggs on May 26, 2011, 06:59:32 PM
Armstrong is a fraud and a cheater just like most of them.  Are you tell me that Lance Armstrong is better than everyone else that is juiced up when he's natural?  Ha ha....not likely....I never liked that smug sum bitch. 
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: johnnynoname on May 26, 2011, 07:00:52 PM
Armstrong is a fraud and a cheater just like most of them.  Are you tell me that Lance Armstrong is better than everyone else that is juiced up when he's natural?  Ha ha....not likely....I never liked that smug sum bitch. 


if Lance reads this he will go nut
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: The Abdominal Snoman on May 26, 2011, 07:02:02 PM
Armstrong is a fraud and a cheater just like most of them.  Are you tell me that Lance Armstrong is better than everyone else that is juiced up when he's natural?  Ha ha....not likely....I never liked that smug sum bitch. 

I believe Lance did what everyone else was doing. However Liar Lance needs to be drawn to the flame and burnt. Liars have no place in this matrix with the truth seekers.
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: Largerthanlife on May 26, 2011, 07:14:11 PM
Armstrong is a fraud and a cheater just like most of them.  Are you tell me that Lance Armstrong is better than everyone else that is juiced up when he's natural?  Ha ha....not likely....I never liked that smug sum bitch. 

Wiggs they all lie and cheat, it is no different than Ronnie claiming to be all natural, it is well known they are all using shit, if it's out there they are using it.

Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: Natural Man on May 26, 2011, 07:55:12 PM
dude it's too long ago, no way to get a case together and have it stand trial, Lance's legacy will live forever as long as someone younger with better drugs doesnt do even better, the people accusing him of drugs will just get yelled at to shut their mouths.  It's all hearsay, no facts.




fixed.
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: hmontaq on May 27, 2011, 02:08:00 AM
The French hate that an American wins it and they tested him constantly. Clean everytime...

But like its been said... EVERYONE on the Olympian stage! Testing? Yea right!
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: cephissus on May 27, 2011, 02:33:30 AM

if Lance reads this he will go nut

 ;D
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: #1 Klaus fan on May 27, 2011, 04:35:01 AM
I am all for PED but you do not enter a contest that is ostensibly drug free while using and then pretend to be a winner.  It's like a steroid user entering a natural BB contest... Not cool. >:(

I do not care how many tests he "passed" I believe his teammates who said they were all using. ::)

I don't know what to think. It's obviously wrong to cheat, but you are a sucker if you don't, you know?
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: closeline on May 27, 2011, 04:35:46 AM
drugs or no drugs,,, he won 7 tour de france's. Its not like the other bikers were not using.

BUT!!!!!!!!!


he was allowed to tested positiv and the test was x-filed while others had to manouver around testing

he took much more , nowing he wouldn t be punished like others

ULLRICH was much better and would have beaten him any day on the same amount of drugs

the armstrong wins were fixed
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: DK II on May 27, 2011, 05:46:26 AM
(http://cdn-community2.livestrong.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/9/10/c981f7be-e46c-4245-aa9d-d61ae110a264.Full.jpg)

Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: hmontaq on May 27, 2011, 09:57:20 AM
Probably been drug tested more than ANY other athlete in history
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: johnnynoname on May 27, 2011, 10:31:40 AM
;D

thank you for getting that one
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: Largerthanlife on May 27, 2011, 10:35:07 AM
BUT!!!!!!!!!


he was allowed to tested positiv and the test was x-filed while others had to manouver around testing

he took much more , nowing he wouldn t be punished like others

ULLRICH was much better and would have beaten him any day on the same amount of drugs

the armstrong wins were fixed

he had his chance, crashed though
Title: Re: Lance Armstrong- Feel bad for him?
Post by: Heywood on May 27, 2011, 10:36:06 AM
Chris Benoit was tested and passed the WWE's steroid tests right before he killed his family and committed suicide.

He could have won a b/b contest without much difficulty, yet he always passed the tests.

There are protocols that don't mean you are "clean", just not "abusing" under some definition, such as large variation in hormone levels.