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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: mesmorph78 on July 31, 2011, 10:51:56 PM
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I've been watching videos of
JM PRESSES
and
TATE PRESSES
Powerlifting exercises for tris
Has anybody tried these if so do you find them effective??
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Bump for an answer
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Dude, nobody here is as advanced as you, we all need steroids and are much weaker than you.
Answer the question yourself.
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Bump for an answer
I would help but since I started using No One's advice of training arms strictly with cables my arms are bigger than ever
so no presses for me exept for chest
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I would help but since I started using No One's advice of training arms strictly with cables my arms are bigger than ever
so no presses for me exept for chest
What is a sample routine u do with all cables?
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I would help but since I started using No One's advice of training arms strictly with cables my arms are bigger than ever
so no presses for me exept for chest
All cables .. Interesting concept ... Don't know if that would work for me though
What would such a routine look like?
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Ok well I train arms after a big bodypart (like a few sets of triceps after chest and a few sets of biceps after back) Those are straight sets like 8 sets of cable pushdown 6-8 reps each then I am out of there
but once a week, I have a "arm day" where I do a giant sets of 5 exercice for the biceps, I do it 5 times
and same for triceps after that.
(when I say cable, I can also include some machines in that)
for example:
triceps would go like this
1- cable pushdown
2-reverse grip pushdown
3-cable pushdown
4-tricep extension with the machine (also a cable shit)
5- dip machine
first sets are 15, then 12, then 10, then 8, then 6
I know it seems like a homo workout but my arms grow more by doing this then it grows from heavy barbell curls
( I think because I have long arms and my shoulders are strong, my arms don't get involved enough with barbell and dumbell and I maybe tend to swing to much no matter how I do them)
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Yes, done both, find both effective, but like the Tate Press a bit more. I find the Tate worked better for adding mass and was easier to set up and felt more natural. The JM was better for moving up actual press numbers. Helped me a lot with adding a bit of snap to it.
Tate Press-
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JM Press-
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The man it's name after explains it about 4:50 in on this clip-
.
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for some reason, my philosophy on arms, i always respond better if i do a tricep movement, and follow it up with a bicep movement, i feel it puts more blood in the arm, a full circle, and it allows you to be more diverse in your training..........instea d of hammering out all tricep lifts, then going to bicep lifts
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for some reason, my philosophy on arms, i always respond better if i do a tricep movement, and follow it up with a bicep movement, i feel it puts more blood in the arm, a full circle, and it allows you to be more diverse in your training..........instea d of hammering out all tricep lifts, then going to bicep lifts
I like doing both
I get more sore if I train one after the other tho
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an extension is an extension is an extension... try the Tates and JM and see if you like em. If so rotate them in.
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Agree with SZLOL. Also find Tate's are best done one arm at a time and trying to touch the opposite side of the chest, for a slightly different angle, than what was shown in the video. Might try both versions to see what works the best for you, two or one arm.
JM's are really difficult for so many guy's, winding up being closer to a close grip press than an actual JM. If you can master it, without it becoming a press, than more power to you. Good luck.
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JM PRESSES WITH PALMS FACING EACH OTHER...
DO IT ON THE FLOOR, SO YOUR END POSITION SHOULD BE ABOTU 3-5 INCHES ABOVE CHEST...
I DO THESE AND CLOSE GRIP WEIGHTED DIPS AS MY ONLY TRICEP EXERCISE...
GOT IT FROM A PRO...TAKE IT FOR WHAT ITS WORTH.
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JM PRESSES WITH PALMS FACING EACH OTHER...
DO IT ON THE FLOOR, SO YOUR END POSITION SHOULD BE ABOTU 3-5 INCHES ABOVE CHEST...
I DO THESE AND CLOSE GRIP WEIGHTED DIPS AS MY ONLY TRICEP EXERCISE...
GOT IT FROM A PRO...TAKE IT FOR WHAT ITS WORTH.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_REkgXByDyuU/SVkpo5Z24wI/AAAAAAAACD4/_AHcj8jnLB8/s400/caps-lock-no-tnecessary-all-the-time.jpg)
(http://images42.fotki.com/v1377/photos/1/198974/6900003/capslock1-vi.jpg)
(http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/27530_391704858798_4998_n.jpg)
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As long as you get an extension and a press movement in there, you are adaquately working the tris. I like to do overhead extensions with a rope or dumbbell followed up with close grip dips.
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great info guys
ill try the tate presses today
my main question is does it give good gains
i find my tris are extremely strong and it takes a lot my to break them down and i get used to excercises quite easilyI just want a main meat and potato excercise that packs on the mass.
i find dips and cgb hit my chest which is already very developed, skulls are good but once you start going heavy they bother the elbows
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great info guys
ill try the tate presses today
my main question is does it give good gains
i find my tris are extremely strong and it takes a lot my to break them down and i get used to excercises quite easilyI just want a main meat and potato excercise that packs on the mass.
i find dips and cgb hit my chest which is already very developed, skulls are good but once you start going heavy they bother the elbows
Do you ever do an extension movement straight into a close grip dip, pre-exhaust fashion? Great technique to get the benefit of the strength of your chest but isolate the tricep primarily and make it work.
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Just turn your Thigh-Master 180 degrees...
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Do you ever do an extension movement straight into a close grip dip, pre-exhaust fashion? Great technique to get the benefit of the strength of your chest but isolate the tricep primarily and make it work.
yeah i do do that sometimes gives a great pump but lets say I do 10 to 12 reps then straight into presses , thats 20 reps minimum i dont think that rep range is the optimum for building mass
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for some reason, my philosophy on arms, i always respond better if i do a tricep movement, and follow it up with a bicep movement, i feel it puts more blood in the arm, a full circle, and it allows you to be more diverse in your training..........instea d of hammering out all tricep lifts, then going to bicep lifts
Phil Heath trains them always this way..from his videos, he also explains why.
I trained my arms this way when i stared training..i have to train them since then with this style. Maybe I should start again.
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As far as cable movements..Palumbo recommends to train arms with cables and only.
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??? :-\
[/youtube]
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that's not mesmprph.
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??? :-\
[/youtube]
lol everything that kid does, the form is awful.
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lol everything that kid does, the form is awful.
105's?
Ego, I tell you...
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105's?
Ego, I tell you...
He's probably not yet ready for that weight
Don't think that's all ego he did press it himself at least he's not doing bench press and having a friend pull the weight off him
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105's?
Ego, I tell you...
check out his "skull crushers".....
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Im real advanced yo, I do some triangle pushups
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Im real advanced yo, I do some triangle pushups
Those are quite good used to do them before I joined a gym
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Those are quite good used to do them before I joined a gym
I see what you did there ;D
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I see what you did there ;D
I did nothing just stated a truth
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Tried them both today before back
Tate presses are a little amazed still really felt it in the tricep though
I'm presses I prefer these I felt deep in the tris the incline version is even harder
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With the Tate press where in the routine should it fall?
Ideal sets/reps scheme?
Does it hit lateral medial or long heads most effectively?
Ideal overall routine for triceps mass? Thinking today about doing straight bar pressdowns, tate press, close grip dips. Thoughts anyone??
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With the Tate press where in the routine should it fall?
Ideal sets/reps scheme?
Does it hit lateral medial or long heads most effectively?
Ideal overall routine for triceps mass? Thinking today about doing straight bar pressdowns, tate press, close grip dips. Thoughts anyone??
Tried them today I'd recommend the the jm press over the Tate press
And on my arm day Friday I'm gonna pum my tris full then do jm presses
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Tried them today I'd recommend the the jm press over the Tate press
And on my arm day Friday I'm gonna pum my tris full then do jm presses
Tate Press seems like a lying down version of the tricep kickback....I think Ronnie in one of his vids was doing the tricep kickback standing up, and he was doing the same movement, except starting the movement chest--then out.
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3 sets cable pushdowns, 5-10 reps each, staying at least 1 rep shy of failure. heavy weight, good form. squeeze the tricep at the bottom. repeat every 4-5 days.
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the muscle doesnt know whether its pressing or extending..and squeezing at the top/bottom makes no difference.
when you do a new movement it always feels like "it really works"..cos its different.
do some research on how muscles work and how the mechanics of the body works also so you can determine what is good and bad advice and what is just pointless advice.
recommending just cables is pointless advice, for instance.
its coincidental that you benefit from it because its a better fit to your mechanical layout.
for others the reverse would be true.
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3 sets cable pushdowns, 5-10 reps each, staying at least 1 rep shy of failure. heavy weight, good form. squeeze the tricep at the bottom. repeat every 4-5 days.
My tris are way to advanced for that... Wouldn't do anything for me that... I think cables give a pumP
But never built any size for me all my size came from free weight
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My tris are way to advanced for that... Wouldn't do anything for me that... I think cables give a pumP
But never built any size for me all my size came from free weight
Exactly. Like you, my best came from heavy french presses (esp. drop sets!) and behind-the-head seated db presses. Got old, and tendons came and went, mostly went. Still soldiering on. Hammer tricep machine is still aces.
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My tris are way to advanced for that... Wouldn't do anything for me that... I think cables give a pumP
But never built any size for me all my size came from free weight
::)
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larry the legend. a & b = LS
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::)
What's the rolling eyes for jeez 99% of you people here are drug addicts and because you are everyone must be ... Sad
Anyway I'm not dragging this thread into that so people who are hear to talk training I will happily conversate with everything else will be ignored
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Anyone else here that uses these exercises and what are your thought on them gains technique etc
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the muscle doesnt know whether its pressing or extending..and squeezing at the top/bottom makes no difference.
when you do a new movement it always feels like "it really works"..cos its different.
do some research on how muscles work and how the mechanics of the body works also so you can determine what is good and bad advice and what is just pointless advice.
recommending just cables is pointless advice, for instance.
its coincidental that you benefit from it because its a better fit to your mechanical layout.
for others the reverse would be true.
Excellent Post.
"1"
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What's the rolling eyes for jeez 99% of you people here are drug addicts and because you are everyone must be ... Sad
::) i rolled my eyes because you think your too advanced for my suggestion. there is no way possible i oculd have meant anything to do with drug use. thats coming from you, not me. maybe a bit of a fruedian slip on ur part.
your not too advanced to train lower volume, sub failure. in fact the more advanced you get the less volume and the less intensity your muscles can handle. if your truly so advancd then your volume would be dramatically reduced.
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I do JM presses on upper body day.
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the muscle doesnt know whether its pressing or extending..and squeezing at the top/bottom makes no difference.
when you do a new movement it always feels like "it really works"..cos its different.
do some research on how muscles work and how the mechanics of the body works also so you can determine what is good and bad advice and what is just pointless advice.
recommending just cables is pointless advice, for instance.
its coincidental that you benefit from it because its a better fit to your mechanical layout.
for others the reverse would be true.
actually your pretty damn wrong,,,on alot of things look at mesomoprhs triceps you want triceps like you do his routine,,,to get them the triceps knows whats going on your mind tells teh muscle whats going on,,,mesomoprh know sthis if you want larry scott triceps you do his stuff to get them,,,,,,the tricep knows if you do presdown, jdm, etc,,,hence thats why everyones triceps are different,,,,I promise you that you follow mesmoprhs routein you will get triceps like his,,,why else would mesomoprh is asking questions on routines to see what others triceps look like so he can get the same look,,,,,if he hates his triceps.
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::) i rolled my eyes because you think your too advanced for my suggestion. there is no way possible i oculd have meant anything to do with drug use. thats coming from you, not me. maybe a bit of a fruedian slip on ur part.
your not too advanced to train lower volume, sub failure. in fact the more advanced you get the less volume and the less intensity your muscles can handle. if your truly so advancd then your volume would be dramatically reduced.
You misunderstand no one is ever to advanced to learn .. I mean my tris are very seasoned cables do very little for me ... Size wise
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Mesomporph hit it right on the head. The day you think you know-it-all is the day you fail. (GH15 are you listening?)
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Mesomporph hit it right on the head. The day you think you know-it-all is the day you fail. (GH15 are you listening?)
gh15 knows it all,,,becuase he has done it all,,you fail to realize this coach
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Yes....of course he has. The judges I'm sure can verify that.
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Those are quite good used to do them before I joined a gym
Try doing them with your hands on one of those weighted rubber balls they have. Put the ball on the ground and do pushups with your hands on it....holy fucking triceps pump
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Try doing them with your hands on one of those weighted rubber balls they have. Put the ball on the ground and do pushups with your hands on it....holy fucking triceps pump
You mean the medicine ball right?
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The one I use is smaller...they come in sizes...I use the 8 pounder...smaller than a medicine ball...but you could try that
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Cool I know the one your talking about will use that movement as. A finisher ... Ever tried any of those movements
Tate presses
Or
Jm presses?
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Cool I know the one your talking about will use that movement as. A finisher ... Ever tried any of those movements
Tate presses
Or
Jm presses?
Yes I think they both are stupid...much better moves out there. That's just people having g to do things differently so they can be "advanced"
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Yes I think they both are stupid...much better moves out there. That's just people having g to do things differently so they can be "advanced"
Told you meso I'm advanced as fuck :D
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Gosh, I must be out of the loop like Bob Chick claims! I haven't heard of Tate or JM presses before. When I looked into what they were I wasn't impressed. You really have to be careful with your elbows. It is way too easy to damage the connective tissue there and if you do your elbows will be sore for the rest of your life. I mean sore when you do heavy lifts without warming up.
Larry Scott is probably the best exercise technician in the world. He wasn't a big guy when he started bodybuilding and had to use his mind to find new methods to get bigger. His programs are still extremely advanced training. He also came to understand the details that are effective in exercise form.
His movement lying face up on a bench is safe and effective. He takes an ezy-curl bar and lowers the weight to below his rib cage. Then he brings the bar near his chest until his elbows are pointing to the ceiling. From there he continues this circle until he fully extends his arms at about eye level. He used slow, circular motions and was using over 225 pounds in the movement. You save your elbows if you do it this way.
Larry liked the lying triceps extensions with elbows placed on a pad. Having the triceps in a stretched position is one of the best movement for the triceps. He specified that the pulley should be 5 feet off the floor for the most effective contractions. Yes, that is exactly how high they need to be. The only improvement I would make is to avoid placing the elbows on the pads. If you do rub the elbows on pads you risk injuring the delicate sheath that covers the elbow connective tissue. So keep your elbows a couple of inches clear of the pads. It helps if you have side pads to prevent your arms from moving to the side. Keep your shoulders and head down and steady. Then reach back as far as you can for each rep. Make sure you fully extend all your reps. I recommend aiming for 15 reps after a thorough warmup of many higher rep sets. By doing 15 reps you tend to get a better pump and you don't cheat as much. If you are supersetting biceps you will find that your reps will drop by the 3rd set to about 10 reps which is okay. Do every set to failure but don't let anyone assist you. If assisted reps are necessary for growth you will need them all the time. Simply do from 6 to 10 sets with the maximum resistance. Don't reduce the resistance. If you want to do more reps then rest a bit more between sets. I superset with biceps to get a bigger pump. Do this routine every 4th day. There is no need to do any other triceps work unless you have plateaued.
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I believe the jm and Tate presses are good for variety, but were/are mainly for powerlifting (increasing bench). Lying tricep extensions and decline close grip benches are superior for hypertrophy IMO.
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Yes I think they both are stupid...much better moves out there. That's just people having g to do things differently so they can be "advanced"
Ok I have a open mind though and I love training so I'll try anything training wise... The jm presses felt good ... And make sense for me ... My chest is one of my standout bodyparts so close grip benches I feel more in my chest and while extensions are great they ruin the elbows over time and once I start going heavy hurts the elbows
So I'll use jm presses for a while and see how it goes
My tris are quite seasoned so it's something they aren't used to...
Mes
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Gosh, I must be out of the loop like Bob Chick claims! I haven't heard of Tate or JM presses before. When I looked into what they were I wasn't impressed. You really have to be careful with your elbows. It is way too easy to damage the connective tissue there and if you do your elbows will be sore for the rest of your life. I mean sore when you do heavy lifts without warming up.
Larry Scott is probably the best exercise technician in the world. He wasn't a big guy when he started bodybuilding and had to use his mind to find new methods to get bigger. His programs are still extremely advanced training. He also came to understand the details that are effective in exercise form.
His movement lying face up on a bench is safe and effective. He takes an ezy-curl bar and lowers the weight to below his rib cage. Then he brings the bar near his chest until his elbows are pointing to the ceiling. From there he continues this circle until he fully extends his arms at about eye level. He used slow, circular motions and was using over 225 pounds in the movement. You save your elbows if you do it this way.
Larry liked the lying triceps extensions with elbows placed on a pad. Having the triceps in a stretched position is one of the best movement for the triceps. He specified that the pulley should be 5 feet off the floor for the most effective contractions. Yes, that is exactly how high they need to be. The only improvement I would make is to avoid placing the elbows on the pads. If you do rub the elbows on pads you risk injuring the delicate sheath that covers the elbow connective tissue. So keep your elbows a couple of inches clear of the pads. It helps if you have side pads to prevent your arms from moving to the side. Keep your shoulders and head down and steady. Then reach back as far as you can for each rep. Make sure you fully extend all your reps. I recommend aiming for 15 reps after a thorough warmup of many higher rep sets. By doing 15 reps you tend to get a better pump and you don't cheat as much. If you are supersetting biceps you will find that your reps will drop by the 3rd set to about 10 reps which is okay. Do every set to failure but don't let anyone assist you. If assisted reps are necessary for growth you will need them all the time. Simply do from 6 to 10 sets with the maximum resistance. Don't reduce the resistance. If you want to do more reps then rest a bit more between sets. I superset with biceps to get a bigger pump. Do this routine every 4th day. There is no need to do any other triceps work unless you have plateaued.
Thanks for the info I've done one of larrys movements the one with the cable while elbows are on the bench
It's ok but my gym is busy very hard to set that all up.
You described an extension he used to do where the e tension is started from the rib cage?? Do you have any pictures illustrating that movement?
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Question on decline movements- what can be done on decline that is crazy effective?
Decline skull crushers? Close grips?
I am looking for something to fill out my lateral head. Input appreciated.
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Gosh, I must be out of the loop like Bob Chick claims! I haven't heard of Tate or JM presses before. When I looked into what they were I wasn't impressed. You really have to be careful with your elbows. It is way too easy to damage the connective tissue there and if you do your elbows will be sore for the rest of your life. I mean sore when you do heavy lifts without warming up.
Larry Scott is probably the best exercise technician in the world. He wasn't a big guy when he started bodybuilding and had to use his mind to find new methods to get bigger. His programs are still extremely advanced training. He also came to understand the details that are effective in exercise form.
His movement lying face up on a bench is safe and effective. He takes an ezy-curl bar and lowers the weight to below his rib cage. Then he brings the bar near his chest until his elbows are pointing to the ceiling. From there he continues this circle until he fully extends his arms at about eye level. He used slow, circular motions and was using over 225 pounds in the movement. You save your elbows if you do it this way.
Larry liked the lying triceps extensions with elbows placed on a pad. Having the triceps in a stretched position is one of the best movement for the triceps. He specified that the pulley should be 5 feet off the floor for the most effective contractions. Yes, that is exactly how high they need to be. The only improvement I would make is to avoid placing the elbows on the pads. If you do rub the elbows on pads you risk injuring the delicate sheath that covers the elbow connective tissue. So keep your elbows a couple of inches clear of the pads. It helps if you have side pads to prevent your arms from moving to the side. Keep your shoulders and head down and steady. Then reach back as far as you can for each rep. Make sure you fully extend all your reps. I recommend aiming for 15 reps after a thorough warmup of many higher rep sets. By doing 15 reps you tend to get a better pump and you don't cheat as much. If you are supersetting biceps you will find that your reps will drop by the 3rd set to about 10 reps which is okay. Do every set to failure but don't let anyone assist you. If assisted reps are necessary for growth you will need them all the time. Simply do from 6 to 10 sets with the maximum resistance. Don't reduce the resistance. If you want to do more reps then rest a bit more between sets. I superset with biceps to get a bigger pump. Do this routine every 4th day. There is no need to do any other triceps work unless you have plateaued.
I am a BIG fan of Larry actually. His biceps tri-sets totally changed my arms the last few months.
Is there a video someplace of that extension you are mentioning? Not the stretch, the other one, with a circular motion? I want to try it.
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The problem with doing lying triceps extensions with barbells is that it is easy to injure the elbows. If you lower the bar to above your face you are courting disaster because the triceps have to work really hard to stop the weight from hitting your face. Doing extensions from under the head while lying is also dangerous for the joints. Larry Scott came up with a solution. He starts from the extended position above the chest and uses a fairly close grip. Then he lowers the weight to the top of the tummy and without letting it touch his body he moves it is a 'circle' near his chest until his elbows are pointing straight up. At that point in the movement the bar is going forward but upward. You end up over your face and then continue for more reps in that circular motion. There is no pain if you warm up thoroughly then do them this way. It is a very effective movement and eventually you can handle heavy weights and have larger arms for your hard work. The EZ-Curl bar held in the closest grip takes some of the strain off the wrists so allows more weight to be used. Larry is a very analytical person and has worked out exactly what to do to make exercise more effective.
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The problem with doing lying triceps extensions with barbells is that it is easy to injure the elbows. If you lower the bar to above your face you are courting disaster because the triceps have to work really hard to stop the weight from hitting your face. Doing extensions from under the head while lying is also dangerous for the joints. Larry Scott came up with a solution. He starts from the extended position above the chest and uses a fairly close grip. Then he lowers the weight to the top of the tummy and without letting it touch his body he moves it is a 'circle' near his chest until his elbows are pointing straight up. At that point in the movement the bar is going forward but upward. You end up over your face and then continue for more reps in that circular motion. There is no pain if you warm up thoroughly then do them this way. It is a very effective movement and eventually you can handle heavy weights and have larger arms for your hard work. The EZ-Curl bar held in the closest grip takes some of the strain off the wrists so allows more weight to be used. Larry is a very analytical person and has worked out exactly what to do to make exercise more effective.
1. Did you really just say that?
2. Machines take away from the stress on the connective tissue and place squarely on the muscle itself, it's working backwords. In order to get the muscle stronger, bigger or whatever you have to establish joint integrity FIRST. Again Vince....machines only make you better on THAT machine. Does very little for strength and even less or nothing for athleticism or function.
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1. Did you really just say that?
2. Machines take away from the stress on the connective tissue and place squarely on the muscle itself, it's working backwords. In order to get the muscle stronger, bigger or whatever you have to establish joint integrity FIRST. Again Vince....machines only make you better on THAT machine. Does very little for strength and even less or nothing for athleticism or function.
You should really stick to these kinds of posts. Your input suddenly becomes relevant.
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Whats wrong with some cable pushdowns?
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Whats wrong with some cable pushdowns?
nothing but they dont build mass .. well for me anyway
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Whats wrong with some cable pushdowns?
Nothing at all. But Vince likes machines for EVERYTHING, IMO, for bodybuilding purposes, machines should be 20% of your training at the most. You want to build thick muscle good old fashion barbells and dumbbells are the key.
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Nothing at all. But Vince likes machines for EVERYTHING, IMO, for bodybuilding purposes, machines should be 20% of your training at the most. You want to build thick muscle good old fashion barbells and dumbbells are the key.
I just don'T understand how pressing a barbell for example, would make your chest thicker than pressing a machine
you basically to the same thing ?
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Here we go with that stupid free weights argument that knuckleheads believe. If you honestly and truly believe this bullshit then of course you will be anti machines. You can show knuckleheads how to train but most won't be able to continue doing the right thing. Sooner rather than later they do
variations deviations and use their own ideas. That is why you need a decent brain to make gains. If you don't have the mental capacity make sure your trainer does. Having the right theory is absolutely necessary but hardly sufficient. You also have to carry out the technology by correct application.
The exercise I showed is the best that I have used for triceps by far. If you have a proper set up like we have at our gym then you can get a great workout. I have to stress that exercise execution is paramount for gains. Most guys use heavy weights and do all manner of cheating to lift the weight. They aren't using triceps but other muscles to do the lifting. The result is they use big weights but have no gains on the triceps. I can't tell you how many guys I have corrected so that they can do it properly. If you cheat your muscles you won't cause any hypertrophy. It is always about severe tension on the target muscle repeated many, many times. Whatever you do to achieve this isn't important. The goal is to make the target muscle extremely sore the next few days. Then train them again before the soreness is gone.
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I just don'T understand how pressing a barbell for example, would make your chest thicker than pressing a machine
you basically to the same thing ?
Machine will make your chest even bigger because you need far less of the small stabilizer muscles and can use more weight, plus it's safer.
For myself, i like a good mix of everything and i go by how i feel. Some machines will put more pressure on joints because you can't evade though.
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I just don'T understand how pressing a barbell for example, would make your chest thicker than pressing a machine
you basically to the same thing ?
The same prime movement is the same but with machines you recruit little other motor units to stabilize, using "free" weight you have to recruit more motor units (muscle fibers) to stablize the primary movement. Take a hammer strength bench press (which I like) get under it, go up go down don't have to stabilize the shoulders, very little of the rhombiods (because the machine is fixed), etc. Now go to a conventional bench press and see how much harder you have to work and the muscle groups that have to be recruited to help stabilize that load, all the way from the hips to the rotator cuffs, rhomboids, triceps, low back..damn near everything. Muscle gets stronger and bigger by more recruitment of motor units using one primary lift.
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Here we go with that stupid free weights argument that knuckleheads believe. If you honestly and truly believe this bullshit then of course you will be anti machines. You can show knuckleheads how to train but most won't be able to continue doing the right thing. Sooner rather than later they do variations deviations and use their own ideas. That is why you need a decent brain to make gains. If you don't have the mental capacity make sure your trainer does. Having the right theory is absolutely necessary but hardly sufficient. You also have to carry out the technology by correct application.
The exercise I showed is the best that I have used for triceps by far. If you have a proper set up like we have at our gym then you can get a great workout. I have to stress that exercise execution is paramount for gains. Most guys use heavy weights and do all manner of cheating to lift the weight. They aren't using triceps but other muscles to do the lifting. The result is they use big weights but have no gains on the triceps. I can't tell you how many guys I have corrected so that they can do it properly. If you cheat your muscles you won't cause any hypertrophy. It is always about severe tension on the target muscle repeated many, many times. Whatever you do to achieve this isn't important. The goal is to make the target muscle extremely sore the next few days. Then train them again before the soreness is gone.
This is one of those things where is really is no debate Vince.
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The same prime movement is the same but with machines you recruit little other motor units to stabilize, using "free" weight you have to recruit more motor units (muscle fibers) to stablize the primary movement. Take a hammer strength bench press (which I like) get under it, go up go down don't have to stabilize the shoulders, very little of the rhombiods (because the machine is fixed), etc. Now go to a conventional bench press and see how much harder you have to work and the muscle groups that have to be recruited to help stabilize that load, all the way from the hips to the rotator cuffs, rhomboids, triceps, low back..damn near everything. Muscle gets stronger and bigger by more recruitment of motor units using one primary lift.
Great answer.
Do you think machines can help you overcoming a plateau on a lift, let's say bench press? With you above explanation, i see that hardly the possibility, because only chest and maybe triceps have to work on the machine, leaving the additional muscles out.
But reality shows me that using a machine for a while makes me stronger in the free weight lift.
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The same prime movement is the same but with machines you recruit little other motor units to stabilize, using "free" weight you have to recruit more motor units (muscle fibers) to stablize the primary movement. Take a hammer strength bench press (which I like) get under it, go up go down don't have to stabilize the shoulders, very little of the rhombiods (because the machine is fixed), etc. Now go to a conventional bench press and see how much harder you have to work and the muscle groups that have to be recruited to help stabilize that load, all the way from the hips to the rotator cuffs, rhomboids, triceps, low back..damn near everything. Muscle gets stronger and bigger by more recruitment of motor units using one primary lift.
I call bullshit on this. A little learning is a dangerous thing for some people. The personal training business is a sham and disgrace as far as I am concerned.
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I call bullshit on this. A little learning is a dangerous thing for some people. The personal training business is a sham and disgrace as far as I am concerned.
At the moment, i can't decide who's the bigger idiot, you or him, but you have a slight advantage at the moment, "Vinve".
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The problem with doing lying triceps extensions with barbells is that it is easy to injure the elbows. If you lower the bar to above your face you are courting disaster because the triceps have to work really hard to stop the weight from hitting your face. Doing extensions from under the head while lying is also dangerous for the joints. Larry Scott came up with a solution. He starts from the extended position above the chest and uses a fairly close grip. Then he lowers the weight to the top of the tummy and without letting it touch his body he moves it is a 'circle' near his chest until his elbows are pointing straight up. At that point in the movement the bar is going forward but upward. You end up over your face and then continue for more reps in that circular motion. There is no pain if you warm up thoroughly then do them this way. It is a very effective movement and eventually you can handle heavy weights and have larger arms for your hard work. The EZ-Curl bar held in the closest grip takes some of the strain off the wrists so allows more weight to be used. Larry is a very analytical person and has worked out exactly what to do to make exercise more effective.
Perfect thanks. Also watching his hyper growth videos. Thankfully they are free...but there are some gems in there all the same.
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all my mass and density from free weights... machines i use as finishing movements
no contest
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2:25 IN, HOW EFFECTIVE IS THIS FOR CHEST? WHERE CAN I BUY THESE??? HARD TO USE OR NO???
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Great answer Vince way to bash without backing your arguement. I thought you were some kind hypertrophy expert. Ok Vince, I'll humor you, what part of that fact is bullshit?
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all my mass and density from free weights... machines i use as finishing movements
no contest
Agreed, free weights are best. The only machines I use are lat pulldown, leg press and hamstring curls,..for the rest of my body I do all free weight. It may be my broscience speaking, but I just feel better stimulation with free weights, machines and cables seem kind of awkward, not giving proper loading and quite frankly easier to do in most cases.
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Great answer Vince way to bash without backing your arguement. I thought you were some kind hypertrophy expert. Ok Vince, I'll humor you, what part of that fact is bullshit?
Vince and "backing" shouldn't be in the same sentence. Sounds outright creepy.
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Haha, "my tris are way too advanced for that", oh brother ::)
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@ hulktron......who said that??
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@ hulktron......who said that??
"mesmorph" a few pages back, just catching up on this thread.
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I guess Vince is ignoring my question.
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LARRY SCOTT IS THE FCKING MAN
LOTS OF GREAT IDEAS/ANGLES I GOT FROM HIS VIDEOS
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I guess Vince is ignoring my question.
Much like you are ignoring mine?
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What question?
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"mesmorph" a few pages back, just catching up on this thread.
As in my tris are seasoned and that wouldn't do anything for them... What's your input to this thread to troll...
Usual getbig loser
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??? :-\
[/youtube]
Is that really necessary..? This guy almost cracked his Phucking chest plate,trying to do those thing's..!
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Is that really necessary..? This guy almost cracked his Phucking chest plate,trying to do those thing's..!
;D ;D ;D
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2:25 IN, HOW EFFECTIVE IS THIS FOR CHEST? WHERE CAN I BUY THESE??? HARD TO USE OR NO???
https://larryscott.com/products/equipment/varied/hanging_rings