Tricep question for ADVANCED trainers

[Palpatine Q]

Those are quite good used to do them before I joined a gym

Try doing them with your hands on one of those weighted rubber balls they have. Put the ball on the ground and do pushups with your hands on it....holy fucking triceps pump

[mesmorph78]

Try doing them with your hands on one of those weighted rubber balls they have. Put the ball on the ground and do pushups with your hands on it....holy fucking triceps pump

You mean the medicine ball right?

[Palpatine Q]

The one I use is smaller...they come in sizes...I use the 8 pounder...smaller than a medicine ball...but you could try that

[mesmorph78]

Cool I know the one your talking about will use that movement as. A finisher ... Ever tried any of those movements
Tate presses
Or
Jm presses?

[Palpatine Q]

Cool I know the one your talking about will use that movement as. A finisher ... Ever tried any of those movements
Tate presses
Or
Jm presses?

Yes I think they both are stupid...much better moves out there. That's just people having g to do things differently so they can be "advanced"

[Xerxes]

Yes I think they both are stupid...much better moves out there. That's just people having g to do things differently so they can be "advanced"

Told you meso I'm advanced as fuck 

[Vince B]

Gosh, I must be out of the loop like Bob Chick claims! I haven't heard of Tate or JM presses before. When I looked into what they were I wasn't impressed. You really have to be careful with your elbows. It is way too easy to damage the connective tissue there and if you do your elbows will be sore for the rest of your life. I mean sore when you do heavy lifts without warming up.

Larry Scott is probably the best exercise technician in the world. He wasn't a big guy when he started bodybuilding and had to use his mind to find new methods to get bigger. His programs are still extremely advanced training. He also came to understand the details that are effective in exercise form.

His movement lying face up on a bench is safe and effective. He takes an ezy-curl bar and lowers the weight to below his rib cage. Then he brings the bar near his chest until his elbows are pointing to the ceiling. From there he continues this circle until he fully extends his arms at about eye level. He used slow, circular motions and was using over 225 pounds in the movement. You save your elbows if you do it this way.

Larry liked the lying triceps extensions with elbows placed on a pad. Having the triceps in a stretched position is one of the best movement for the triceps. He specified that the pulley should be 5 feet off the floor for the most effective contractions. Yes, that is exactly how high they need to be. The only improvement I would make is to avoid placing the elbows on the pads. If you do rub the elbows on pads you risk injuring the delicate sheath that covers the elbow connective tissue. So keep your elbows a couple of inches clear of the pads. It helps if you have side pads to prevent your arms from moving to the side. Keep your shoulders and head down and steady. Then reach back as far as you can for each rep. Make sure you fully extend all your reps. I recommend aiming for 15 reps after a thorough warmup of many higher rep sets. By doing 15 reps you tend to get a better pump and you don't cheat as much. If you are supersetting biceps you will find that your reps will drop by the 3rd set to about 10 reps which is okay. Do every set to failure but don't let anyone assist you. If assisted reps are necessary for growth you will need them all the time. Simply do from 6 to 10 sets with the maximum resistance. Don't reduce the resistance. If you want to do more reps then rest a bit more between sets. I superset with biceps to get a bigger pump. Do this routine every 4th day. There is no need to do any other triceps work unless you have plateaued.

[ob205]

I believe the jm and Tate presses are good for variety, but were/are mainly for powerlifting (increasing bench).  Lying tricep extensions and decline close grip benches are superior for hypertrophy IMO.

[mesmorph78]

Yes I think they both are stupid...much better moves out there. That's just people having g to do things differently so they can be "advanced"

Ok I have a open mind though and I love training so I'll try anything training wise... The jm presses felt good ... And make sense for me ... My chest is one of my standout bodyparts so close grip benches I feel more in my chest and while extensions are great they ruin the elbows over time and once I start going heavy hurts the elbows
So I'll use jm presses for a while and see how it goes
My tris are quite seasoned so it's something they aren't used to...
Mes

[mesmorph78]

Gosh, I must be out of the loop like Bob Chick claims! I haven't heard of Tate or JM presses before. When I looked into what they were I wasn't impressed. You really have to be careful with your elbows. It is way too easy to damage the connective tissue there and if you do your elbows will be sore for the rest of your life. I mean sore when you do heavy lifts without warming up.

Larry Scott is probably the best exercise technician in the world. He wasn't a big guy when he started bodybuilding and had to use his mind to find new methods to get bigger. His programs are still extremely advanced training. He also came to understand the details that are effective in exercise form.

His movement lying face up on a bench is safe and effective. He takes an ezy-curl bar and lowers the weight to below his rib cage. Then he brings the bar near his chest until his elbows are pointing to the ceiling. From there he continues this circle until he fully extends his arms at about eye level. He used slow, circular motions and was using over 225 pounds in the movement. You save your elbows if you do it this way.

Larry liked the lying triceps extensions with elbows placed on a pad. Having the triceps in a stretched position is one of the best movement for the triceps. He specified that the pulley should be 5 feet off the floor for the most effective contractions. Yes, that is exactly how high they need to be. The only improvement I would make is to avoid placing the elbows on the pads. If you do rub the elbows on pads you risk injuring the delicate sheath that covers the elbow connective tissue. So keep your elbows a couple of inches clear of the pads. It helps if you have side pads to prevent your arms from moving to the side. Keep your shoulders and head down and steady. Then reach back as far as you can for each rep. Make sure you fully extend all your reps. I recommend aiming for 15 reps after a thorough warmup of many higher rep sets. By doing 15 reps you tend to get a better pump and you don't cheat as much. If you are supersetting biceps you will find that your reps will drop by the 3rd set to about 10 reps which is okay. Do every set to failure but don't let anyone assist you. If assisted reps are necessary for growth you will need them all the time. Simply do from 6 to 10 sets with the maximum resistance. Don't reduce the resistance. If you want to do more reps then rest a bit more between sets. I superset with biceps to get a bigger pump. Do this routine every 4th day. There is no need to do any other triceps work unless you have plateaued.

Thanks for the info I've done one of larrys movements the one with the cable while elbows are on the bench
It's ok but my gym is busy very hard to set that all up.
You described an extension he used to do where the  e tension is started from the rib cage?? Do you have any pictures illustrating that movement?

[GroinkTropin]

Question on decline movements- what can be done on decline that is crazy effective?

Decline skull crushers? Close grips?

I am looking for something to fill out my lateral head. Input appreciated.

[GroinkTropin]

Gosh, I must be out of the loop like Bob Chick claims! I haven't heard of Tate or JM presses before. When I looked into what they were I wasn't impressed. You really have to be careful with your elbows. It is way too easy to damage the connective tissue there and if you do your elbows will be sore for the rest of your life. I mean sore when you do heavy lifts without warming up.

Larry Scott is probably the best exercise technician in the world. He wasn't a big guy when he started bodybuilding and had to use his mind to find new methods to get bigger. His programs are still extremely advanced training. He also came to understand the details that are effective in exercise form.

His movement lying face up on a bench is safe and effective. He takes an ezy-curl bar and lowers the weight to below his rib cage. Then he brings the bar near his chest until his elbows are pointing to the ceiling. From there he continues this circle until he fully extends his arms at about eye level. He used slow, circular motions and was using over 225 pounds in the movement. You save your elbows if you do it this way.

Larry liked the lying triceps extensions with elbows placed on a pad. Having the triceps in a stretched position is one of the best movement for the triceps. He specified that the pulley should be 5 feet off the floor for the most effective contractions. Yes, that is exactly how high they need to be. The only improvement I would make is to avoid placing the elbows on the pads. If you do rub the elbows on pads you risk injuring the delicate sheath that covers the elbow connective tissue. So keep your elbows a couple of inches clear of the pads. It helps if you have side pads to prevent your arms from moving to the side. Keep your shoulders and head down and steady. Then reach back as far as you can for each rep. Make sure you fully extend all your reps. I recommend aiming for 15 reps after a thorough warmup of many higher rep sets. By doing 15 reps you tend to get a better pump and you don't cheat as much. If you are supersetting biceps you will find that your reps will drop by the 3rd set to about 10 reps which is okay. Do every set to failure but don't let anyone assist you. If assisted reps are necessary for growth you will need them all the time. Simply do from 6 to 10 sets with the maximum resistance. Don't reduce the resistance. If you want to do more reps then rest a bit more between sets. I superset with biceps to get a bigger pump. Do this routine every 4th day. There is no need to do any other triceps work unless you have plateaued.

I am a BIG fan of Larry actually. His biceps tri-sets totally changed my arms the last few months.

Is there a video someplace of that extension you are mentioning? Not the stretch, the other one, with a circular motion? I want to try it.

[Vince B]

The problem with doing lying triceps extensions with barbells is that it is easy to injure the elbows. If you lower the bar to above your face you are courting disaster because the triceps have to work really hard to stop the weight from hitting your face. Doing extensions from under the head while lying is also dangerous for the joints. Larry Scott came up with a solution. He starts from the extended position above the chest and uses a fairly close grip. Then he lowers the weight to the top of the tummy and without letting it touch his body he moves it is a 'circle' near his chest until his elbows are pointing straight up. At that point in the movement the bar is going forward but upward. You end up over your face and then continue for more reps in that circular motion. There is no pain if you warm up thoroughly then do them this way. It is a very effective movement and eventually you can handle heavy weights and have larger arms for your hard work. The EZ-Curl bar held in the closest grip takes some of the strain off the wrists so allows more weight to be used. Larry is a very analytical person and has worked out exactly what to do to make exercise more effective.

[Coach is Back!]

The problem with doing lying triceps extensions with barbells is that it is easy to injure the elbows. If you lower the bar to above your face you are courting disaster because the triceps have to work really hard to stop the weight from hitting your face. Doing extensions from under the head while lying is also dangerous for the joints. Larry Scott came up with a solution. He starts from the extended position above the chest and uses a fairly close grip. Then he lowers the weight to the top of the tummy and without letting it touch his body he moves it is a 'circle' near his chest until his elbows are pointing straight up. At that point in the movement the bar is going forward but upward. You end up over your face and then continue for more reps in that circular motion. There is no pain if you warm up thoroughly then do them this way. It is a very effective movement and eventually you can handle heavy weights and have larger arms for your hard work. The EZ-Curl bar held in the closest grip takes some of the strain off the wrists so allows more weight to be used. Larry is a very analytical person and has worked out exactly what to do to make exercise more effective.

1. Did you really just say that?

2. Machines take away from the stress on the connective tissue and place squarely on the muscle itself, it's working backwords. In order to get the muscle stronger, bigger or whatever you have to establish joint integrity FIRST. Again Vince....machines only make you better on THAT machine. Does very little for strength and even less or nothing for athleticism or function.

[MORTALCOIL]

1. Did you really just say that?

2. Machines take away from the stress on the connective tissue and place squarely on the muscle itself, it's working backwords. In order to get the muscle stronger, bigger or whatever you have to establish joint integrity FIRST. Again Vince....machines only make you better on THAT machine. Does very little for strength and even less or nothing for athleticism or function.

You should really stick to these kinds of posts. Your input suddenly becomes relevant.

[Meso_z]

Whats wrong with some cable pushdowns?

[mesmorph78]

Whats wrong with some cable pushdowns?

nothing but they dont build mass .. well for me anyway

[Coach is Back!]

Whats wrong with some cable pushdowns?

Nothing at all. But Vince likes machines for EVERYTHING, IMO, for bodybuilding purposes, machines should be 20% of your training at the most. You want to build thick muscle good old fashion barbells and dumbbells are the key.

[Stavios]

Nothing at all. But Vince likes machines for EVERYTHING, IMO, for bodybuilding purposes, machines should be 20% of your training at the most. You want to build thick muscle good old fashion barbells and dumbbells are the key.

I just don'T understand how pressing a barbell for example, would make your chest thicker than pressing a machine

you basically to the same thing ?

[Vince B]

Here we go with that stupid free weights argument that knuckleheads believe. If you honestly and truly believe this bullshit then of course you will be anti machines. You can show knuckleheads how to train but most won't be able to continue doing the right thing. Sooner rather than later they do variations deviations and use their own ideas. That is why you need a decent brain to make gains. If you don't have the mental capacity make sure your trainer does. Having the right theory is absolutely necessary but hardly sufficient. You also have to carry out the technology by correct application.

The exercise I showed is the best that I have used for triceps by far. If you have a proper set up like we have at our gym then you can get a great workout. I have to stress that exercise execution is paramount for gains. Most guys use heavy weights and do all manner of cheating to lift the weight. They aren't using triceps but other muscles to do the lifting. The result is they use big weights but have no gains on the triceps. I can't tell you how many guys I have corrected so that they can do it properly. If you cheat your muscles you won't cause any hypertrophy. It is always about severe tension on the target muscle repeated many, many times. Whatever you do to achieve this isn't important. The goal is to make the target muscle extremely sore the next few days. Then train them again before the soreness is gone.

[DK II]

I just don'T understand how pressing a barbell for example, would make your chest thicker than pressing a machine

you basically to the same thing ?

Machine will make your chest even bigger because you need far less of the small stabilizer muscles and can use more weight, plus it's safer.

For myself, i like a good mix of everything and i go by how i feel. Some machines will put more pressure on joints because you can't evade though.

[Coach is Back!]

I just don'T understand how pressing a barbell for example, would make your chest thicker than pressing a machine

you basically to the same thing ?

The same prime movement is the same but with machines you recruit little other motor units to stabilize, using "free" weight you have to recruit more motor units (muscle fibers) to stablize the primary movement. Take a hammer strength bench press (which I like) get under it, go up go down don't have to stabilize the shoulders, very little of the rhombiods (because the machine is fixed), etc. Now go to a conventional bench press and see how much harder you have to work and the muscle groups that have to be recruited to help stabilize that load, all the way from the hips to the rotator cuffs, rhomboids, triceps, low back..damn near everything. Muscle gets stronger and bigger by more recruitment of motor units using one primary lift.

[Coach is Back!]

Here we go with that stupid free weights argument that knuckleheads believe. If you honestly and truly believe this bullshit then of course you will be anti machines. You can show knuckleheads how to train but most won't be able to continue doing the right thing. Sooner rather than later they do variations deviations and use their own ideas. That is why you need a decent brain to make gains. If you don't have the mental capacity make sure your trainer does. Having the right theory is absolutely necessary but hardly sufficient. You also have to carry out the technology by correct application.

The exercise I showed is the best that I have used for triceps by far. If you have a proper set up like we have at our gym then you can get a great workout. I have to stress that exercise execution is paramount for gains. Most guys use heavy weights and do all manner of cheating to lift the weight. They aren't using triceps but other muscles to do the lifting. The result is they use big weights but have no gains on the triceps. I can't tell you how many guys I have corrected so that they can do it properly. If you cheat your muscles you won't cause any hypertrophy. It is always about severe tension on the target muscle repeated many, many times. Whatever you do to achieve this isn't important. The goal is to make the target muscle extremely sore the next few days. Then train them again before the soreness is gone.

This is one of those things where is really is no debate Vince.

[DK II]

The same prime movement is the same but with machines you recruit little other motor units to stabilize, using "free" weight you have to recruit more motor units (muscle fibers) to stablize the primary movement. Take a hammer strength bench press (which I like) get under it, go up go down don't have to stabilize the shoulders, very little of the rhombiods (because the machine is fixed), etc. Now go to a conventional bench press and see how much harder you have to work and the muscle groups that have to be recruited to help stabilize that load, all the way from the hips to the rotator cuffs, rhomboids, triceps, low back..damn near everything. Muscle gets stronger and bigger by more recruitment of motor units using one primary lift.

Great answer.

Do you think machines can help you overcoming a plateau on a lift, let's say bench press? With you above explanation, i see that hardly the possibility, because only chest and maybe triceps have to work on the machine, leaving the additional muscles out.

But reality shows me that using a machine for a while makes me stronger in the free weight lift.

[Vince B]

The same prime movement is the same but with machines you recruit little other motor units to stabilize, using "free" weight you have to recruit more motor units (muscle fibers) to stablize the primary movement. Take a hammer strength bench press (which I like) get under it, go up go down don't have to stabilize the shoulders, very little of the rhombiods (because the machine is fixed), etc. Now go to a conventional bench press and see how much harder you have to work and the muscle groups that have to be recruited to help stabilize that load, all the way from the hips to the rotator cuffs, rhomboids, triceps, low back..damn near everything. Muscle gets stronger and bigger by more recruitment of motor units using one primary lift.

I call bullshit on this. A little learning is a dangerous thing for some people. The personal training business is a sham and disgrace as far as I am concerned.