Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: suckmymuscle on August 06, 2011, 04:49:04 PM
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I think I am the most misunderstood and misquoted poster on Getbig. Some time ago, I made a post in a thread where I attacked the keto diet and got trashed. I do not deny that the keto diet produces improvements in overall health in the short term. My criticism is that I don't believe it is an ideal diet in the long run. I will explain my reasons, and I am willing to have a reasonable debate as long as people make coherent and substantiated points.
Yes, the keto diet does cause improvements in many markers associated with health such as plasma glycemia, systolic blood pressure and even improves blood lipid profile depending on the version of keto diet you do. After all, a diet with no glucose will produce the healthiest levels possible of blood glucose, which is the minimum the body will be getting from gluconeogenesis of protein in the liver.
The other energy substrate will be ketones from the breakdown of long fatty chains also in the liver. Your blood lipid profile will also improve, since both fats and carbohydrates raise blood tryglyceride levels, but fat is much slower to digest and break down, so the amount of fatty acids in the blood might decrease even though you are eating more fat. If you do a version of the keto diet where you get most of your fat from cold-water fish, the improvement in the HDL/LDL ratio might be remarkable.
But the keto diet produces many problems for Humans. We do not digest and assimilate fats and protein as effectively as carbohydrates, and even though long polysaccharide chains are also burdensome for the liver to break down, they are not nearly as burdensome as fats and much less burdensome than protein. Metabolically, all our energy-producing mechanisms at the cellular level, the mitochondria, are geared to utilize chains of saccharides or variants of adenosine for energy. Furthermore, the problems go further than this. Our digestive tracts, digestive enzymes and intestinal tracts cannot effectively process foods laden with protein and fat.
For instance, we have ten times more amylase in our saliva than protease, and the hydrochloric acid in our stomach is too diluted to break down the fibrous protein filaments of meat. Then, our gastro-intestinal tract, which is similar to that of frugivores and folivores, is too long to dispose of large quantities of protein and fat metabolites fast. There is also the issuen of acidosis. Humans have alkaline saliva, and Human cells are slightly alkaline. This is the opposite of a carnivores like a lion, which has an acidic saliva and cells that work better in an acidic medium.Both fats and ptrotein are acid-forming. After all, both fats and proteins are acid-based. Fats are fatty acids, and proteins are made of amino acids. Eating large quantities of both results in the fromation of acidic metabolites, which must be buffered and made alkaline. The body draws carbonate from the bones to accomplish this. Protein breaks down into large quantities or uric acid and creatinine and ammonia. ammonia further breaks down into many inorganic acids that must be buffered. vegetables alkalinize the body, but in a keto diet where you get all your energy from fats andf proteins there isn's enough greesn that can do that.
Being in an acidic state poisons the mitochondria of cells, resulting in accelerated metabolic stress(oxidation). The liver, already strained from gluconeogenesis and fatty acid breakdown, must now deal with large ammounts of ammonia that must be further broeken down. Result: accelerated liver and kidney degeneration. A keto diet thus results in:
- Ostheoporosis
- Gout
- Arthritis
- Accelerated ageing even if infflamation is controlled by ingestion of polynsaturated fats and vitamin E
- Stress and burned out liver and kidneys.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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fail.
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How much muscle could a Gorilla build on the keto diet?
Gorillas strike me as rather fat, maybe he would need a diet soda before.
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I heard Milos is back in Europe. Anyone hear this?
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I heard Milos is back in Europe. Anyone hear this?
no, I what heard is that Milos is back in Europe.
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Good thing I'm on a Cyclical Ketogenic Diet then instead of constant keto..
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I think I am the most misunderstood and misquoted poster on Getbig. Some time ago, I made a post in a thread where I attacked the keto diet and got trashed. I do not deny that the keto diet produces improvements in overall health in the short term. My criticism is that I don't believe it is an ideal diet in the long run. I will explain my reasons, and I am willing to have a reasonable debate as long as people make coherent and substantiated points.
Yes, the keto diet does cause improvements in many markers associated with health such as plasma glycemia, systolic blood pressure and even improves blood lipid profile depending on the version of keto diet you do. After all, a diet with no glucose will produce the healthiest levels possible of blood glucose, which is the minimum the body will be getting from gluconeogenesis of protein in the liver. The other energy substrate will be ketones from the breakdown of long fatty chains also in the liver. Your blood lipid profile will also improve, since both fats and carbohydrates raise blood tryglyceride levels, but fat is much slower to digest and break down, so the amount of fatty acids in the blood might decrease even though you are eating more fat. If you do a version of the keto diet where you get most of your fat from cold-water fish, the improvement in the HDL/LDL ratio might be remarkable.
But the keto diet produces many problems for Humans. We do not digest and assimilate fats and protein as effectively as carbohydrates, and even though long polysaccharide chains are also burdensome for the liver to break down, they are not nearly as burdensome as fats and much less burdensome than protein. Metabolically, all our energy-producing mechanisms at the cellular level, the mitochondria, are geared to utilize chains of saccharides or variants of adenosine for energy. Furthermore, the problems go further than this. Our digestive tracts, digestive enzymes and intestinal tracts cannot effectively process foods laden with protein and fat. For instance, we have ten times more amylase in our saliva than protease, and the hydrochloric acid in our stomach is too diluted to break down the fibrous protein filaments of meat. Then, our gastro-intestinal tract, which is similar to that of frugivores and folivores, is too long to dispose of large quantities of protein and fat metabolites fast. There is also the issuen of acidosis. Humans have alkaline saliva, and Human cells are slightly alkaline. This is the opposite of a carnivores like a lion, which has an acidic saliva and cells that work better in an acidic medium.Both fats and ptrotein are acid-forming. After all, both fats and proteins are acid-based. Fats are fatty acids, and proteins are made of amino acids. Eating large quantities of both results in the fromation of acidic metabolites, which must be buffered and made alkaline. The body draws carbonate from the bones to accomplish this. Protein breaks down into large quantities or uric acid and creatinine and ammonia. ammonia further breaks down into many inorganic acids that must be buffered. vegetables alkalinize the body, but in a keto diet where you get all your energy from fats andf proteins there isn's enough greesn that can do that. Being in an acidic state poisons the mitochondria of cells, resulting in accelerated metabolic stress(oxidation). The liver, already strained from gluconeogenesis and fatty acid breakdown, must now deal with large ammounts of ammonia that must be further broeken down. Result: accelerated liver and kidney degeneration. A keto diet thus results in:
- Ostheoporosis
- Gout
- Arthritis
- Accelerated ageing even if infflamation is controlled by ingestion of polynsaturated fats and vitamin E
- Stress and burned out liver and kidneys.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Proof of above in HEALTHY people....
Also, there is no such thing as an "essential" carbohydrate. Ever ask yourself why that is? There is, however, essential amino acids and fats.
HOLY SHIT....MILOS IS IN EUROPE??? FUCK YOU MUSCLE PHONE FOR NOT INFORMING ME!
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Proof of above in HEALTHY people....
As far as I know, no double-blind, placebo-controlled studies on the long-term health effects of a ketogenic diet have been done on Humans, and the reason for this is that pretty much no one can stand being without carbs for more than a few months. I can provide you an example of how this diet is not healthy. the Eskimo do a year-long ketogenic diet where they eat nothing but sea food, and they have a life expectancy of less than 40 years when they don't have access to modern medicine. They have extremely high rates of artherosclerosis, bowel and intestinal cancer and gout. Conversely, they have low rates of dementia and suffer much lower rates of macular degeneration due to their diet which is very rich in omega-3 fatty acids.
Also, there is no such thing as an "essential" carbohydrate. Ever ask yourself why that is? There is, however, essential amino acids and fats.
Lol, this is irrelevant. The reason why there are essential fats and amino acids is because they are used to build the structure of cells. Carbohydrates are not used to build cells, dummy, so why would they be essential? But we are not debating this. We are debating what is the ideal diet for Humans and the argument that I am making is that a diet where you get your energy mostly from carbs is better for your health and longevity in the long run than a diet where you get your energy mostly from fats and proteins.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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My opinion on the keto diet is that people get blinded by the initial large drop in water weight compared to conventional diets that dont cut carbs.The rest of the insulin spike blah blah stuff is BS in my opinion.Calories in<Calories out.
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Is it true that Milos is in Europe?
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This debate is fucking pointless. If keto did not work than people would not be doing it.
So why debate if it works? It obviously works for some as some use it.
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Is it true that Milos is in Europe?
we can't know for sure
once a youtube video of him in a european supplement store will be produced, THEN and only THEN will we know for sure
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This debate is fucking pointless. If keto did not work than people would not be doing it.
So why debate if it works? It obviously works for some as some use it.
How many people stay in the keto diet indefinitely? Everyone quits eventually because carbs are just much as an energy substrate than either protein or fats. And the keto diet does work to lose bodyfat and even might improve health markers in the short term. Does it work in the long run and does it improve your health overall in the long run? No.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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for me keto would be a nightmare...I dont know any big dudes who use keto.pro or amatuer........unless your a big fat pig...I know tons of girls who have used it and they are also doing 2 hours of cardio while on it, dosent make sence to me and in the end all it did was mess up there metabolisms...me as a trainer would never put anyone on keto.complex carbs are needed by the body for so many reasos and you can get shredded eating them and stay healthy mind and body....
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Bottom line is: it doesn't work any better than a carb based diet at equal kcal levels, in fact it might work even worse since there is more thyroid slowdown.
And who wants to look flat and thus fat?
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so let me get this straight..
is Milos in Europe or is he not?
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so let me get this straight..
is Milos in Europe or is he not?
watching CNN as I type this, still no news about Milos's current situation
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it kills brain cells, dieting makes the brain consume self
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Healthy brain cells can utilize either glucose or ketones.......
I've been using it on and off for 10 years with fantastic results. More recently, I've been on it more than off. The only negatives I've experienced are frequent urination and bad breath. That's what gum is for though....
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it works to paint you into a corner
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As far as I know, no double-blind, placebo-controlled studies on the long-term health effects of a ketogenic diet have been done on Humans, and the reason for this is that pretty much no one can stand being without carbs for more than a few months. I can provide you an example of how this diet is not healthy. the Eskimo do a year-long ketogenic diet where they eat nothing but sea food, and they have a life expectancy of less than 40 years when they don't have access to modern medicine. They have extremely high rates of artherosclerosis, bowel and intestinal cancer and gout. Conversely, they have low rates of dementia and suffer much lower rates of macular degeneration due to their diet which is very rich in omega-3 fatty acids.
Lol, this is irrelevant. The reason why there are essential fats and amino acids is because they are used to build the structure of cells. Carbohydrates are not used to build cells, dummy, so why would they be essential? But we are not debating this. We are debating what is the ideal diet for Humans and the argument that I am making is that a diet where you get your energy mostly from carbs is better for your health and longevity in the long run than a diet where you get your energy mostly from fats and proteins.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
HA HA....resorted to name calling in a thread where you pretty much ask for civility. You can not prove what is the IDEAL diet for humans because there IS NONE. The longevity people would advise REDUCTION in calories. Plain and simple. You pulled some fact about eskimos and their longevity. Wow, impressive. How about look at other nationalities. I asked to prove that the keto diet in people who train is bad. You can't. Plain and simple. Look at people who don't train with the typical food pyramid...obesity levels through the roof. Thats just the tip of the iceberg. Oh, but wait, the keto-type diet is so bad.
Saying that its "irrelevant" that there is no essential carbohydrate is pretty much saying "because I said so" in a debate. The body has this wonderful process called gluconeogenesis because its not that important that we take them in. Fats are used in so many of the body's structure and processes is staggering. The same can be said for proteins/AA's.
Try again.
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SMM can you explain why carbs are "protein sparing" and how they exert this effect? Also, what is the ideal carb intake structure for a natty wanting to compete?
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HA HA....resorted to name calling in a thread where you pretty much ask for civility. You can not prove what is the IDEAL diet for humans because there IS NONE. The longevity people would advise REDUCTION in calories. Plain and simple. You pulled some fact about eskimos and their longevity. Wow, impressive. How about look at other nationalities. I asked to prove that the keto diet in people who train is bad. You can't. Plain and simple. Look at people who don't train with the typical food pyramid...obesity levels through the roof. Thats just the tip of the iceberg. Oh, but wait, the keto-type diet is so bad.
Saying that its "irrelevant" that there is no essential carbohydrate is pretty much saying "because I said so" in a debate. The body has this wonderful process called gluconeogenesis because its not that important that we take them in. Fats are used in so many of the body's structure and processes is staggering. The same can be said for proteins/AA's.
Try again.
Sorry for calling you dummy, but bringing up the fact that there are essential fats and proteins to justify them being a better energy substrate than carbs and drawing the conclusion that therefore a diet with protein and fats but no carbs is better for you is asinine.
And yes, the body can turn proteins into sugars via gluconeogensis. I don't know why you are bringing this up since I addressed this in my post. Gluconeogensis puts an enormous amount of stress in the liver and creates many breakdown products that are highly toxic to the body, like ammonia. The fact that the body needs to turn protein into sugar via gluconeogenesis is exactly the reason why I believe that the ketogenic diet is terrible for you in the long run even though it can improve your health in the short term.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Sorry for calling you dummy, but bringing up the fact that there are essential fats and proteins to justify them being a better energy substrate than carbs and drawing the conclusion that therefore a diet with protein and fats but no carbs is better for you is asinine.
And yes, the body can turn proteins into sugars via gluconeogensis. I don't know why you are bringing this up since I addressed this in my post. Gluconeogensis puts an enormous amount of stress in the liver and creates many breakdown products that are highly toxic to the body, like ammonia. The fact that the body needs to turn protein into sugar via gluconeogenesis is exactly the reason why I believe that the ketogenic diet is terrible for you in the long run even though it can improve your health in the short term.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
sorry I havent read the whole thread
but
what is the ideal distribution of p/c/f in your mind?
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sorry I havent read the whole thread
but
what is the ideal distribution of p/c/f in your mind?
50/30/20 carbs/protein/fat
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Any news on Milos yet?
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Any news on Milos yet?
Why the need to troll, dude? Seriously.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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SMM
You write some good stuff. This is GetBig of course and everyone busts balls, but i like your take on things.
As for the Keto diet, I'm a follower of the Paleo diet. Realistically, humans did not eat tons of meat because they had to kill an animal. Early on I cant imagine the success rate was high, so fruit, vegetables and nuts were most common. That would make the diet carb and fat heavy and protein low. Just a thought.
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it a fucking bitch but it work , will say low carb , th zero carb neuto toxic , anxiety , confusion , 15-30gr carb a good ratio , for someone who has to loose 40 pounds til contest stage
hiit n deadlift cardio then at 6% bodyfat slow cardio to no cardio ,
it more about nail refeed time , once a week it ridiculous , twice a week , or every 4-5th days it more doable
you refeed when things go downhill , insomnia , immune system , mental health
i hate carb ,, why / if i eat carb i slip n fail , i dont stop , i cant stop i get carb addict , fat cut hunger , no carb no temptation
can u b condition on keto ,, yes ,,, can u be mr olympia on keto ,, not at all
keto your always deplete , always flat , u look good after refeed n after gym for a short time , so dont miss refeed for contest stage or your fuck
sodium is an essential , high fat intake also 200gr fat for 250gr bbers , easy , ppls tend to b afraid of fat
60gr protein per meal , make sure extra protein give th carb u need
keto without hgh , primobolan , eq , testo u b freaking small
carb + steroid = side effect n blood pressure
keto u can load steroid n anw u need to load haha
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Realistically, humans did not eat tons of meat because they had to kill an animal. Early on I cant imagine the success rate was high, so fruit, vegetables and nuts were most common. That would make the diet carb and fat heavy and protein low. Just a thought.
True, but that's where I stop agreeing with you.
Answer these questions for me:
1) what does "essential" mean, in terms of nutrition?
2) how many essential amino acids are there (conditionally essential need not be included)?
3) How many essential fats are there?
4) How many essential carbohydrates are there?
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True, but that's where I stop agreeing with you.
Answer these questions for me:
1) what does "essential" mean, in terms of nutrition?
2) how many essential amino acids are there (conditionally essential need not be included)?
3) How many essential fats are there?
4) How many essential carbohydrates are there?
Sigh...I have already addressed this. You can't be for real with this shit. The fact that there are essential fats and proteins but no essential carbs does not mean that fat and proteins are better energy substrates than carbs. The reason why fats and proteins are essential is because they are used to build the structure of cells whilst carbs are not. Why is it that you people focus on completely irrelevant shit?
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Sigh...I have already addressed this. You can't be for real with this shit. The fact that there are essential fats and proteins but no essential carbs does not mean that fat and proteins are better energy substrates than carbs. The reason why fats and proteins are essential is because they are used to build the structure of cells whilst carbs are not. Why is it that you people focus on completely irrelevant shit?
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Because I think you're reply isn't sound in logic.
Since we're talking irrelevant shit here, can you tell me why you end every post with "SUCKMYMUSCLE," as if none of us can see it with EVERY post of yours, by your avatar?!
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50/30/20 carbs/protein/fat
SUCKMYMUSCLE
no no no! a human has no business eating carbohydrates if health is the goal. Fuck it though Id rather watch golden eye than explain why again.
(http://por-img.cimcontent.net/api/assets/bin-201107/57279a5abf3cbcc9e43a2e5ba6cfcac6.jpg)
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no no no! a human has no business eating carbohydrates if health is the goal. Fuck it though Id rather watch golden eye than explain why again.
(http://por-img.cimcontent.net/api/assets/bin-201107/57279a5abf3cbcc9e43a2e5ba6cfcac6.jpg)
It's like arguing with a toddler that covers his ears and yells "lalalalalaa" to not listen something he doesen't want to. Why do I even bother? I read your argument and explained to you why you are wrong, but you just pretend like I didn't address your point.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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It's like arguing with a toddler that covers his ears and yells "lalalalalaa" to not listen something he doesen't want to. Why do I even bother? I read your argument and explained to you why you are wrong, but you just pretend like I didn't address your point.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
because this is not even up for debate. The human body was not made to function on carbohydrates and everything functions better when in ketosis. Carbs are simply a luxary that we have adapted to. Do you think a caveman would eat some toast and jelly in the wild? he would eat berries, fish, various animal flesh, and nuts. You know this ..obviously your not stupid, but you are indeed making a stupid arguement.
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Some serious misinformation here which we have to thank all the quacks out there giving out nutrition advice while not actually having studied at uni for but ok:
Carbs are not "essential" because the body can make them on it's own. Deducing from this that you don't have to eat them is in one word r e t a r d e d.
Secondly, low carb diets cause neurotransmitter levels to plummet. This is once again for the retards NOT what you want to do.
Thirdly low carb diets are known to hamper thyroid functioning, once more for the retards, this is NOT what you want do unless you like to have a hard time getting lean.
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because this is not even up for debate. The human body was not made to function on carbohydrates and everything functions better when in ketosis. Carbs are simply a luxary that we have adapted to. Do you think a caveman would eat some toast and jelly in the wild? he would eat berries, fish, various animal flesh, and nuts. You know this ..obviously your not stupid, but you are indeed making a stupid arguement.
One big scientific LOL to you my man
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For the people on here that want to read one of the best books on nutrition out there NOT written by a bro-scientist, I highly recommend this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Nutrition-Serious-Athletes-Dan-Benardot/dp/0880118334 (http://www.amazon.com/Nutrition-Serious-Athletes-Dan-Benardot/dp/0880118334)
There are some short sections on bodybuilding but regardless, the same principles apply to all sports.
I also like the fact the he is a bit sarcastic in his phrasing on bodybuilders thinking they can FORCE the body to utilize more protein by eating boatloads of it. You can only do this (for the retards) with... DRUGS!
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because this is not even up for debate. The human body was not made to function on carbohydrates and everything functions better when in ketosis. Carbs are simply a luxary that we have adapted to. Do you think a caveman would eat some toast and jelly in the wild? he would eat berries, fish, various animal flesh, and nuts. You know this ..obviously your not stupid, but you are indeed making a stupid arguement.
Holy shit...bwa ha ha ha ha. LOL! So the Human body was not made to function with carbohydrates, huh? Then why do we have ten times more amylase, which breaks down carbohydrates, then protease which breaks down protein? Why is the hydrochloric acid in our stomach ten times more diluted than that of animals that live on meat and fat like lions? Why are our livers, the organ responsible for eliminating the toxic by-products of protein and fat metabolism, much smaller than those of carnivores. Why do we have close to 8 times more Langerhams cells than carnivores? Why is our saliva, skin, blood and urine slightly alkaline, and why when they become acidic, which happens through too much fat and protein ingestion, do we experience several degerative diseases like ostheoporosis, arthrities, gout, acidosis and ammonia poisoning?
And your second statement is even more ridiculous. We function better when on ketosis? Define better? Sure, our plasma glucose level improves dramatically(obviously) and plasma level of triglycrides might even improve - and on a keto diet where you get your fat exclusively from cold-water oily fish your blood lipid profile might improve dramatically - but your liver, kidneys as well as the mitochondria of all cells of your body will be working overtime. Both gluconeogenesis and glycogenolysis put enormous stress on your liver and your elimination systems which includes your kidneys and in afact all your cells. Your liver will be exhausted from having to be constantly break down long chains of fats into ketones and protein into glucose, your kidneys will be constantly working to eliminate massive amounts of ammonia and uric acid as well as all yout cells - ammonia is poisonous to the mitochondria, so the whole cells of your body will be working overtime to eliminate ammonia - and will be funtioning in an acidic medium. Furthermore, glycerols, which result from the breakdown of fats, are also poisonous to cells and must be eliminated. Then, there is the issue of digestion. Out intestines are too long to dispose of protein and fat in large quantities efficiently. Unlike carbs, which are absorbed quickly, amino acids and fatty acids pass through the intestines slowly as they are of difficult absoption. This results in putrefaction of the amino acids and fats, whih result in increased risk of intestinal cancer and constipation. This also happens with complex carbohydrates that are devoid of fibers, but not nearly as bad as with large amounts of proteins and fats, and this never happens with simple carbs or complex carbs that have fibers.
The bottom line is that, due to our physiology, a keto diet produces a lot of problems for us in the long haul, although it can improve our health markers in the short term. We simply do not have the assimilative, metabolic and eliminatins sytems required to live happily ever after in a zero carb diet with lots of protein and fat. Our body is adaptive, and it can and does adapt very well to any diet in the short term. For instance, the keto diet improves blood lipid profile because both fats and carbs raise blood lipid levels, but fat is broken down and enters the bloodstream slower, so in a zero carb diet the amount of tryglycerides drops even though you might be eating more fat. But if you zero fat and eat nothing but carbs, your blood lipd profile will also improve. The Chinese from Southern China, who live on nothing but white rice and vegetables(100% carb diet) have some of the healthiest blood lipd profiles of any people on Earth. The keto diet doe improve your health markers in the short run, but it is not a diet that our physiology is adapted to cope with effectively, so in the long run it is bad for our health.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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because this is not even up for debate. The human body was not made to function on carbohydrates and everything functions better when in ketosis. Carbs are simply a luxary that we have adapted to. Do you think a caveman would eat some toast and jelly in the wild? he would eat berries, fish, various animal flesh, and nuts. You know this ..obviously your not stupid, but you are indeed making a stupid arguement.
lol, do people still believe in the "caveman" "paleo" bullshit diets? You know that these "cavemen" you speak of didn't have access to internet or computers either...you might as well throw away yours and never log in to getbig again. They also had no concept of body hygiene, you might as well never shower again and start sporting long dirty hair. lol
Seriously, WTF does how "cavemen" ate have to do with how we eat today? And FYI there is evidence that very early human civilizations ate grain/cereal based foods too.
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Some serious misinformation here which we have to thank all the quacks out there giving out nutrition advice while not actually having studied at uni for but ok:
Carbs are not "essential" because the body can make them on it's own. Deducing from this that you don't have to eat them is in one word r e t a r d e d.
Secondly, low carb diets cause neurotransmitter levels to plummet. This is once again for the retards NOT what you want to do.
Thirdly low carb diets are known to hamper thyroid functioning, once more for the retards, this is NOT what you want do unless you like to have a hard time getting lean.
x2.
good post
Holy shit...bwa ha ha ha ha. LOL! So the Human body was not made to function with carbohydrates, huh? Then why do we have ten times more amylase, which breaks down carbohydrates, then protease which breaks down protein? Why is the hydrochloric acid in our stomach ten times more diluted than that of animals that live on meat and fat like lions? Why are our livers, the organ responsible for eliminating the toxic by-products of protein and fat metabolism, much smaller than those of carnivores. Why do we have close to 8 times more Langerhams cells than carnivores? Why is our saliva, skin, blood and urine slightly alkaline, and why when they become acidic, which happens through too much fat and protein ingestion, do we experience several degerative diseases like ostheoporosis, arthrities, gout, acidosis and ammonia poisoning?
And your second statement is even more ridiculous. We function better when on ketosis? Define better? Sure, our plasma glucose level improves dramatically(obviously) and plasma level of triglycrides might even improve - and on a keto diet where you get your fat exclusively from cold-water oily fish your blood lipid profile might improve dramatically - but your liver, kidneys as well as the mitochondria of all cells of your body will be working overtime. Both gluconeogenesis and glycogenolysis put enormous stress on your liver and your elimination systems which includes your kidneys and in afact all your cells. Your liver will be exhausted from having to be constantly break down long chains of fats into ketones and protein into glucose, your kidneys will be constantly working to eliminate massive amounts of ammonia and uric acid as well as all yout cells - ammonia is poisonous to the mitochondria, so the whole cells of your body will be working overtime to eliminate ammonia - and will be funtioning in an acidic medium. Furthermore, glycerols, which result from the breakdown of fats, are also poisonous to cells and must be eliminated. Then, there is the issue of digestion. Out intestines are too long to dispose of protein and fat in large quantities efficiently. Unlike carbs, which are absorbed quickly, amino acids and fatty acids pass through the intestines slowly as they are of difficult absoption. This results in putrefaction of the amino acids and fats, whih result in increased risk of intestinal cancer and constipation. This also happens with complex carbohydrates that are devoid of fibers, but not nearly as bad as with large amounts of proteins and fats, and this never happens with simple carbs or complex carbs that have fibers.
The bottom line is that, due to our physiology, a keto diet produces a lot of problems for us in the long haul, although it can improve our health markers in the short term. We simply do not have the assimilative, metabolic and eliminatins sytems required to live happily ever after in a zero carb diet with lots of protein and fat. Our body is adaptive, and it can and does adapt very well to any diet in the short term. For instance, the keto diet improves blood lipid profile because both fats and carbs raise blood lipid levels, but fat is broken down and enters the bloodstream slower, so in a zero carb diet the amount of tryglycerides drops even though you might be eating more fat. But if you zero fat and eat nothing but carbs, your blood lipd profile will also improve. The Chinese from Southern China, who live on nothing but white rice and vegetables(100% carb diet) have some of the healthiest blood lipd profiles of any people on Earth. The keto diet doe improve your health markers in the short run, but it is not a diet that our physiology is adapted to cope with effectively, so in the long run it is bad for our health.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Another good post.
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x2.
good post
Another good post.
your an idiot too. For the last time, there is no debate. Carbs do absolutely NOTHING to benefit the human body. Not only do carbohydrates lower the immune system,dry out the skin, compromise insulin sensitivity,trigger a host of diseases like diabetes ..they also dramatically accelerate the aging process. Now I eat carbs too because I like that taste :) but dont try to justify your daily habits as optimal. Now fruit, dairy and sweet potatoes is another story and has a host of documented health benefits. whole fat dairy has many health benefits from protection against diabetes to raising igf levels...but higher igf levels are linked to cancer so dairy is a double edged sword/ The reality is most food is a double edged sword. Spinach is high in oxalic acid but it has been shown to reverse signs of aging. Blueberries are one of the most powerful fruits known to man, but there is some belief that large amounts of fructose can increase glycation in humans. Sweet Potatoes are full of antioxidants and beta carotene but are also high in trypsin inhibitors which actually inhibit the digestion of protein. Animals fed a diet high in trypsin inhibitors often become ill and fail to grow properly. Peanut butter contains an phtoestrogen/alfatoxin which is liver toxic but peanuts (like grapes and blueberries) are one of the few foods in nature that are rich in reversatol.
as far as brown rice and oatmeal? Get out. We are omnivores and our body requires soft soluble fiber from those found in fruit and vegetables. Grains should be eaten by one thing only..birds.
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your an idiot too. For the last time, there is no debate. Carbs do absolutely NOTHING to benefit the human body. Not only do carbohydrates lower the immune system,dry out the skin, compromise insulin sensitivity,trigger a host of diseases like diabetes ..they also dramatically accelerate the aging process. Now I eat carbs too because I like that taste :) but dont try to justify your daily habits as optimal. Now fruit, dairy and sweet potatoes is another story and has a host of documented health benefits. whole fat dairy has many health benefits from protection against diabetes to raising igf levels...but higher igf levels are linked to cancer so dairy is a double edged sword/ The reality is most food is a double edged sword. Spinach is high in oxalic acid but it has been shown to reverse signs of aging. Blueberries are one of the most powerful fruits known to man, but there is some belief that large amounts of fructose can increase glycation in humans. Sweet Potatoes are full of antioxidants and beta carotene but are also high in trypsin inhibitors which actually inhibit the digestion of protein. Animals fed a diet high in trypsin inhibitors often become ill and fail to grow properly. Peanut butter contains an phtoestrogen/alfatoxin which is liver toxic but peanuts (like grapes and blueberries) are one of the few foods in nature that are rich in reversatol.
as far as brown rice and oatmeal? Get out. We are omnivores and our body requires soft soluble fiber from those found in fruit and vegetables. Grains should be eaten by one thing only..birds.
excellent fucking post.
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No retarded post, hampering neurotransmitter production and decreasing thyroid output are not benefits to the human body in my book lol
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Most of the stuff he says is also not true. Carbohydrates drying out the skin, are you fo real nigga ???
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your an idiot too. For the last time, there is no debate. Carbs do absolutely NOTHING to benefit the human body. Not only do carbohydrates lower the immune system,dry out the skin, compromise insulin sensitivity,trigger a host of diseases like diabetes ..they also dramatically accelerate the aging process. Now I eat carbs too because I like that taste :) but dont try to justify your daily habits as optimal. Now fruit, dairy and sweet potatoes is another story and has a host of documented health benefits. whole fat dairy has many health benefits from protection against diabetes to raising igf levels...but higher igf levels are linked to cancer so dairy is a double edged sword/ The reality is most food is a double edged sword. Spinach is high in oxalic acid but it has been shown to reverse signs of aging. Blueberries are one of the most powerful fruits known to man, but there is some belief that large amounts of fructose can increase glycation in humans. Sweet Potatoes are full of antioxidants and beta carotene but are also high in trypsin inhibitors which actually inhibit the digestion of protein. Animals fed a diet high in trypsin inhibitors often become ill and fail to grow properly. Peanut butter contains an phtoestrogen/alfatoxin which is liver toxic but peanuts (like grapes and blueberries) are one of the few foods in nature that are rich in reversatol.
as far as brown rice and oatmeal? Get out. We are omnivores and our body requires soft soluble fiber from those found in fruit and vegetables. Grains should be eaten by one thing only..birds.
Carbohydrate consumption does NOT cause diabetes. Are you for real with this?
Its been shown and its a fact that obesity is the main culprit for diabetes in normal people, carbs have little to do with it....overeating and becoming overweight has everything to do with it.
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Most of the stuff he says is also not true. Carbohydrates drying out the skin, are you fo real guy ???
He believes in "cavemen" diets....I think that explains what he posted. :-\
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your an idiot too. For the last time, there is no debate. Carbs do absolutely NOTHING to benefit the human body. Not only do carbohydrates lower the immune system,dry out the skin, compromise insulin sensitivity,trigger a host of diseases like diabetes ..they also dramatically accelerate the aging process. Now I eat carbs too because I like that taste :) but dont try to justify your daily habits as optimal. Now fruit, dairy and sweet potatoes is another story and has a host of documented health benefits. whole fat dairy has many health benefits from protection against diabetes to raising igf levels...but higher igf levels are linked to cancer so dairy is a double edged sword/ The reality is most food is a double edged sword. Spinach is high in oxalic acid but it has been shown to reverse signs of aging. Blueberries are one of the most powerful fruits known to man, but there is some belief that large amounts of fructose can increase glycation in humans. Sweet Potatoes are full of antioxidants and beta carotene but are also high in trypsin inhibitors which actually inhibit the digestion of protein. Animals fed a diet high in trypsin inhibitors often become ill and fail to grow properly. Peanut butter contains an phtoestrogen/alfatoxin which is liver toxic but peanuts (like grapes and blueberries) are one of the few foods in nature that are rich in reversatol.
as far as brown rice and oatmeal? Get out. We are omnivores and our body requires soft soluble fiber from those found in fruit and vegetables. Grains should be eaten by one thing only..birds.
Like a toddler covering his ears and screaming "lalalaalalalal" when a grown up tells him something he doesen't want to listen...
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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excellent fucking post.
. Your ok too, sry I gave you shit ;)
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The only respectful defense I have ever come across for the keto diet is the issue of glycemic control for diabetics. With this, defenders of the keto diet have a real point. It is hard to control blood sugar levels on a diet that includes carbs even using very low glycemic carbs. But such a diet, whilst improving diabetes, will create a lot of other problems. I think that eating no more than 20% to 40% of calories from very low glycemic carbs, like cream of rye and whole oats, with protein and fibers to further low the glycemic load of the carbs, will keep blood sugar at levels healthy even for a diabetic, and will avoid most of the digestive, metabolic and eliminative problems that come from too much fat and protein.
Also, whilst a keto diet might stop and even reverse diabetes, remember that it is a diet rich in saturated fats that gets you diabetic in the first place so at least some versions of the keto diet, like Atkinson's, will not only not improve diabetes but probably worsen it even without carbs in the diet. A diet very rich in sugar seldom makes you diabetic if you don't also eat tons of saturated fats. Saturated fats increase insulin resistence, decrease cells permeability to insulin and increase glucagon levels.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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. Your ok too, sry I gave you shit
You are just plain wrong. Period. I have explained in exact and precise detail why you are wrong, and it is your choice to behave like a toddler and act like you haven't been corrected.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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bump for the current location of milos. let's get to the bottom of this
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Carbohydrate consumption does NOT cause diabetes. Are you for real with this?
Its been shown and its a fact that obesity is the main culprit for diabetes in normal people, carbs have little to do with it....overeating and becoming overweight has everything to do with it.
So skinny people cant get diabetes? ::) Look around you every single one of you are fucking insulin resistant. In fact 95 percent of this people on this board do not respond to insulin and I blame the goverment food industry. Do you think it is coincidence that gh15 does not give you insulin protocols? Do you think he gives a fuck if one of you in Alabama goes hypo? Im gonna tell you the REAAALLL reason he does not give you insulin advice. ]..AMERICANS do not respond to insulin 90% of the time and he knows it[/b[/b]]. This is a secret only few of us know. There will be no American bodybuilder on getbig, who will break 240 pounds lean 5'10 because of this reason. Mark my words you guys will just not respond well to it. . 10 years from now you guys will sit and curse the day of gh15 when your stuck at 220 ,blame your genetics, cry yourself to sleep, but in the end you have nobody to blame but your momma for not giving you right nutrition while she was out till midnight like casey anthony while you should of been sucking on her titty ;).
Only person I see doing it is Stavios or myself ...its because in Israeli food and Canadaian food they are made with more pure ingredientss . Notice Obama has not taken high fructose corn syrup off the market.. American goverment is killing every single one of you and you dont even know it. It sits right on the shelf when you walk in the kitchen and in your bluebell icecream....how harmful is high fructose corn syrup?..that stuff is used to induce diabetes mellitus in animals.
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So skinny people cant get diabetes? ::) Look around you every single one of you are fucking insulin resistant. In fact 95 percent of this people on this board do not respond to insulin and I blame the goverment food industry. Do you think it is coincidence that gh15 does not give you insulin protocols? Do you think he gives a fuck if one of you in Alabama goes hypo? Im gonna tell you the REAAALLL reason he does not give you insulin advice. ]..AMERICANS do not respond to insulin 90% of the time and he knows it[/b[/b]]. This is a secret only few of us know. There will be no American bodybuilder on getbig, who will break 240 pounds lean 5'10 because of this reason. Mark my words you guys will just not respond well to it. . 10 years from now you guys will sit and curse the day of gh15 when your stuck at 220 ,blame your genetics, cry yourself to sleep, but in the end you have nobody to blame but your momma for not giving you right nutrition while she was out till midnight like casey anthony while you should of been sucking on her titty ;).
Only person I see doing it is Stavios or myself ...its because in Israeli food and Canadaian food they are made with more pure ingredientss . Notice Obama has not taken high fructose corn syrup off the market.. American goverment is killing every single one of you and you dont even know it. It sits right on the shelf when you walk in the kitchen and in your bluebell icecream....how harmful is high fructose corn syrup?..that stuff is used to induce diabetes mellitus in animals.
Skinny people get diabetes becaue it is hereditary. reasonable consumption of carbs DOES NOT cause diabetes. Eating way too many carbs, being sedentary and just a lazy fat fuck can also cause diabetes.
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Skinny people get diabetes becaue it is hereditary. reasonable consumption of carbs DOES NOT cause diabetes. Eating way too many carbs, being sedentary and just a lazy fat fuck can also cause diabetes.
this is correct. I was just trying to proove a point to suckmycockle
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So skinny people cant get diabetes? ::) Look around you every single one of you are fucking insulin resistant. In fact 95 percent of this people on this board do not respond to insulin and I blame the goverment food industry. Do you think it is coincidence that gh15 does not give you insulin protocols? Do you think he gives a fuck if one of you in Alabama goes hypo? Im gonna tell you the REAAALLL reason he does not give you insulin advice. ]..AMERICANS do not respond to insulin 90% of the time and he knows it[/b[/b]]. This is a secret only few of us know. There will be no American bodybuilder on getbig, who will break 240 pounds lean 5'10 because of this reason.
true
but the bigger you get, the leaner you get, the more sensitive you get. so while most arent responsive to insulin now, once they max out their frame with roids and get lean, they should be able to get some growth out of slin.
btw, ill prove you wrong about that prediction
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true
but the bigger you get, the leaner you get, the more sensitive you get. so while most arent responsive to insulin now, once they max out their frame with roids and get lean, they should be able to get some growth out of slin.
btw, ill prove you wrong about that prediction
Be'hatzlacha, Taylor :-*
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Lower overall calories while keeping protein high = get leaner and maintain size. It really isn't that complicated lol.
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So skinny people cant get diabetes? ::) Look around you every single one of you are fucking insulin resistant. In fact 95 percent of this people on this board do not respond to insulin and I blame the goverment food industry. Do you think it is coincidence that gh15 does not give you insulin protocols? Do you think he gives a fuck if one of you in Alabama goes hypo? Im gonna tell you the REAAALLL reason he does not give you insulin advice. ]..AMERICANS do not respond to insulin 90% of the time and he knows it[/b[/b]]. This is a secret only few of us know. There will be no American bodybuilder on getbig, who will break 240 pounds lean 5'10 because of this reason. Mark my words you guys will just not respond well to it. . 10 years from now you guys will sit and curse the day of gh15 when your stuck at 220 ,blame your genetics, cry yourself to sleep, but in the end you have nobody to blame but your momma for not giving you right nutrition while she was out till midnight like casey anthony while you should of been sucking on her titty ;).
Only person I see doing it is Stavios or myself ...its because in Israeli food and Canadaian food they are made with more pure ingredientss . Notice Obama has not taken high fructose corn syrup off the market.. American goverment is killing every single one of you and you dont even know it. It sits right on the shelf when you walk in the kitchen and in your bluebell icecream....how harmful is high fructose corn syrup?..that stuff is used to induce diabetes mellitus in animals.
There is your answer:
Skinny people get diabetes becaue it is hereditary. reasonable consumption of carbs DOES NOT cause diabetes. Eating way too many carbs, being sedentary and just a lazy fat fuck can also cause diabetes.
Plus, I'm not insulin resistant. Are you trolling?