The Keto Diet - Debate on of it works or not?

[DK II]

Any news on Milos yet?

[suckmymuscle]

Any news on Milos yet?

  Why the need to troll, dude? Seriously.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[Hypertrophy]

SMM

You write some good stuff. This is GetBig of course and everyone busts balls, but i like your take on things.

As for the Keto diet, I'm a follower of the Paleo diet. Realistically, humans did not eat tons of meat because they had to kill an animal. Early on I cant imagine the success rate was high, so fruit, vegetables and nuts were most common. That would make the diet carb and fat heavy and protein low. Just a thought.

[Benoitlapierre]

it a fucking bitch but it work , will say low carb , th zero carb neuto toxic , anxiety , confusion , 15-30gr carb a good ratio , for someone who has to loose 40 pounds til contest stage


 hiit n deadlift cardio then at 6% bodyfat slow cardio to no cardio ,

 it more about nail refeed time , once a week it ridiculous , twice a week , or every 4-5th days it more doable

you refeed when things go downhill , insomnia , immune system , mental health

i hate carb ,, why / if i eat carb i slip n fail , i dont stop , i cant stop i get carb addict , fat cut hunger , no carb no temptation

can u b condition on keto ,, yes ,,, can u be mr olympia on keto ,, not at all

keto your always deplete , always flat , u look good after refeed n after gym for a short time , so dont miss refeed for contest stage or your fuck

sodium is an essential , high fat intake also 200gr fat for 250gr bbers , easy , ppls tend to b afraid of fat

60gr protein per meal , make sure extra protein give th carb u need

keto without hgh , primobolan , eq , testo u b freaking small

carb + steroid = side effect n blood pressure

keto u can load steroid n anw u need to load haha

[YoungBlood]

Realistically, humans did not eat tons of meat because they had to kill an animal. Early on I cant imagine the success rate was high, so fruit, vegetables and nuts were most common. That would make the diet carb and fat heavy and protein low. Just a thought.

True, but that's where I stop agreeing with you.

Answer these questions for me:

1) what does "essential" mean, in terms of nutrition?
2) how many essential amino acids are there (conditionally essential need not be included)?
3) How many essential fats are there?
4) How many essential carbohydrates are there?

[suckmymuscle]

True, but that's where I stop agreeing with you.

Answer these questions for me:

1) what does "essential" mean, in terms of nutrition?
2) how many essential amino acids are there (conditionally essential need not be included)?
3) How many essential fats are there?
4) How many essential carbohydrates are there?

  Sigh...I have already addressed this. You can't be for real with this shit. The fact that there are essential fats and proteins but no essential carbs does not mean that fat and proteins are better energy substrates than carbs. The reason why fats and proteins are essential is because they are used to build the structure of cells whilst carbs are not. Why is it that you people focus on completely irrelevant shit?

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[YoungBlood]

  Sigh...I have already addressed this. You can't be for real with this shit. The fact that there are essential fats and proteins but no essential carbs does not mean that fat and proteins are better energy substrates than carbs. The reason why fats and proteins are essential is because they are used to build the structure of cells whilst carbs are not. Why is it that you people focus on completely irrelevant shit?

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Because I think you're reply isn't sound in logic.
Since we're talking irrelevant shit here, can you tell me why you end every post with "SUCKMYMUSCLE," as if none of us can see it with EVERY post of yours, by your avatar?!

[flinstones1]

 50/30/20  carbs/protein/fat

SUCKMYMUSCLE

no no no! a human has no business eating carbohydrates if health is the goal. Fuck it though Id rather watch golden eye than explain why again.

[suckmymuscle]

no no no! a human has no business eating carbohydrates if health is the goal. Fuck it though Id rather watch golden eye than explain why again.

  It's like arguing with a toddler that covers his ears and yells "lalalalalaa" to not listen something he doesen't want to. Why do I even bother? I read your argument and explained to you why you are wrong, but you just pretend like I didn't address your point.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[flinstones1]

 It's like arguing with a toddler that covers his ears and yells "lalalalalaa" to not listen something he doesen't want to. Why do I even bother? I read your argument and explained to you why you are wrong, but you just pretend like I didn't address your point.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

because this is not even up for debate. The human body was not made to function on carbohydrates and everything functions better when in ketosis. Carbs are simply a luxary that we have adapted to. Do you think a caveman would eat some toast and jelly in the wild? he would eat berries, fish, various animal flesh, and nuts. You know this ..obviously your not stupid, but you are indeed making a stupid arguement.

[Moen]

Some serious misinformation here which we have to thank all the quacks out there giving out nutrition advice while not actually having studied at uni for but ok:

Carbs are not "essential" because the body can make them on it's own. Deducing from this that you don't have to eat them is in one word r e t a r d e d.

Secondly, low carb diets cause neurotransmitter levels to plummet. This is once again for the retards NOT what you want to do.

Thirdly low carb diets are known to hamper thyroid functioning, once more for the retards, this is NOT what you want do unless you like to have a hard time getting lean.

[Moen]

because this is not even up for debate. The human body was not made to function on carbohydrates and everything functions better when in ketosis. Carbs are simply a luxary that we have adapted to. Do you think a caveman would eat some toast and jelly in the wild? he would eat berries, fish, various animal flesh, and nuts. You know this ..obviously your not stupid, but you are indeed making a stupid arguement.

One big scientific LOL to you my man

[Moen]

For the people on here that want to read one of the best books on nutrition out there NOT written by a bro-scientist, I highly recommend this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Nutrition-Serious-Athletes-Dan-Benardot/dp/0880118334

There are some short sections on bodybuilding but regardless, the same principles apply to all sports.

I also like the fact the he is a bit sarcastic in his phrasing on bodybuilders thinking they can FORCE the body to utilize more protein by eating boatloads of it. You can only do this (for the retards) with... DRUGS!

[suckmymuscle]

because this is not even up for debate. The human body was not made to function on carbohydrates and everything functions better when in ketosis. Carbs are simply a luxary that we have adapted to. Do you think a caveman would eat some toast and jelly in the wild? he would eat berries, fish, various animal flesh, and nuts. You know this ..obviously your not stupid, but you are indeed making a stupid arguement.

  Holy shit...bwa ha ha ha ha. LOL! So the Human body was not made to function with carbohydrates, huh? Then why do we have ten times more amylase, which breaks down carbohydrates, then protease which breaks down protein? Why is the hydrochloric acid in our stomach ten times more diluted than that of animals that live on meat and fat like lions? Why are our livers, the organ responsible for eliminating the toxic by-products of protein and fat metabolism, much smaller than those of carnivores. Why do we have close to 8 times more Langerhams cells than carnivores? Why is our saliva, skin, blood and urine slightly alkaline, and why when they become acidic, which happens through too much fat and protein ingestion, do we experience several degerative diseases like ostheoporosis, arthrities, gout, acidosis and ammonia poisoning?

  And your second statement is even more ridiculous. We function better when on ketosis? Define better? Sure, our plasma glucose level improves dramatically(obviously) and plasma level of triglycrides might even improve - and on a keto diet where you get your fat exclusively from cold-water oily fish your blood lipid profile might improve dramatically - but your liver, kidneys as well as the mitochondria of all cells of your body will be working overtime. Both gluconeogenesis and glycogenolysis put enormous stress on your liver and your elimination systems which includes your kidneys and in afact all your cells. Your liver will be exhausted from having to be constantly break down long chains of fats into ketones and protein into glucose, your kidneys will be constantly working to eliminate massive amounts of ammonia and uric acid as well as all yout cells - ammonia is poisonous to the mitochondria, so the whole cells of your body will be working overtime to eliminate ammonia - and will be funtioning in an acidic medium. Furthermore, glycerols, which result from the breakdown of fats, are also poisonous to cells and must be eliminated. Then, there is the issue of digestion. Out intestines are too long to dispose of protein and fat in large quantities efficiently. Unlike carbs, which are absorbed quickly, amino acids and fatty acids pass through the intestines slowly as they are of difficult absoption. This results in putrefaction of the amino acids and fats, whih result in increased risk of intestinal cancer and constipation. This also happens with complex carbohydrates that are devoid of fibers, but not nearly as bad as with large amounts of proteins and fats, and this never happens with simple carbs or complex carbs that have fibers.

  The bottom line is that, due to our physiology, a keto diet produces a lot of problems for us in the long haul, although it can improve our health markers in the short term. We simply do not have the assimilative, metabolic and eliminatins sytems required to live happily ever after in a zero carb diet with lots of protein and fat. Our body is adaptive, and it can and does adapt very well to any diet in the short term. For instance, the keto diet improves blood lipid profile because both fats and carbs raise blood lipid levels, but fat is broken down and enters the bloodstream slower, so in a zero carb diet the amount of tryglycerides drops even though you might be eating more fat. But if you zero fat and eat nothing but carbs, your blood lipd profile will also improve. The Chinese from Southern China, who live on nothing but white rice and vegetables(100% carb diet) have some of the healthiest blood lipd profiles of any people on Earth. The keto diet doe improve your health markers in the short run, but it is not a diet that our physiology is adapted to cope with effectively, so in the long run it is bad for our health.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[JP_RC]

because this is not even up for debate. The human body was not made to function on carbohydrates and everything functions better when in ketosis. Carbs are simply a luxary that we have adapted to. Do you think a caveman would eat some toast and jelly in the wild? he would eat berries, fish, various animal flesh, and nuts. You know this ..obviously your not stupid, but you are indeed making a stupid arguement.

lol, do people still believe in the "caveman" "paleo" bullshit diets?  You know that these "cavemen" you speak of didn't have access to internet or computers either...you might as well throw away yours and never log in to getbig again. They also had no concept of body hygiene, you might as well never shower again and start sporting long dirty hair. lol

Seriously, WTF does how "cavemen" ate have to do with how we eat today?  And FYI there is evidence that very early human civilizations ate grain/cereal based foods too.

[JP_RC]

Some serious misinformation here which we have to thank all the quacks out there giving out nutrition advice while not actually having studied at uni for but ok:

Carbs are not "essential" because the body can make them on it's own. Deducing from this that you don't have to eat them is in one word r e t a r d e d.

Secondly, low carb diets cause neurotransmitter levels to plummet. This is once again for the retards NOT what you want to do.

Thirdly low carb diets are known to hamper thyroid functioning, once more for the retards, this is NOT what you want do unless you like to have a hard time getting lean.

x2.
good post

  Holy shit...bwa ha ha ha ha. LOL! So the Human body was not made to function with carbohydrates, huh? Then why do we have ten times more amylase, which breaks down carbohydrates, then protease which breaks down protein? Why is the hydrochloric acid in our stomach ten times more diluted than that of animals that live on meat and fat like lions? Why are our livers, the organ responsible for eliminating the toxic by-products of protein and fat metabolism, much smaller than those of carnivores. Why do we have close to 8 times more Langerhams cells than carnivores? Why is our saliva, skin, blood and urine slightly alkaline, and why when they become acidic, which happens through too much fat and protein ingestion, do we experience several degerative diseases like ostheoporosis, arthrities, gout, acidosis and ammonia poisoning?

  And your second statement is even more ridiculous. We function better when on ketosis? Define better? Sure, our plasma glucose level improves dramatically(obviously) and plasma level of triglycrides might even improve - and on a keto diet where you get your fat exclusively from cold-water oily fish your blood lipid profile might improve dramatically - but your liver, kidneys as well as the mitochondria of all cells of your body will be working overtime. Both gluconeogenesis and glycogenolysis put enormous stress on your liver and your elimination systems which includes your kidneys and in afact all your cells. Your liver will be exhausted from having to be constantly break down long chains of fats into ketones and protein into glucose, your kidneys will be constantly working to eliminate massive amounts of ammonia and uric acid as well as all yout cells - ammonia is poisonous to the mitochondria, so the whole cells of your body will be working overtime to eliminate ammonia - and will be funtioning in an acidic medium. Furthermore, glycerols, which result from the breakdown of fats, are also poisonous to cells and must be eliminated. Then, there is the issue of digestion. Out intestines are too long to dispose of protein and fat in large quantities efficiently. Unlike carbs, which are absorbed quickly, amino acids and fatty acids pass through the intestines slowly as they are of difficult absoption. This results in putrefaction of the amino acids and fats, whih result in increased risk of intestinal cancer and constipation. This also happens with complex carbohydrates that are devoid of fibers, but not nearly as bad as with large amounts of proteins and fats, and this never happens with simple carbs or complex carbs that have fibers.

  The bottom line is that, due to our physiology, a keto diet produces a lot of problems for us in the long haul, although it can improve our health markers in the short term. We simply do not have the assimilative, metabolic and eliminatins sytems required to live happily ever after in a zero carb diet with lots of protein and fat. Our body is adaptive, and it can and does adapt very well to any diet in the short term. For instance, the keto diet improves blood lipid profile because both fats and carbs raise blood lipid levels, but fat is broken down and enters the bloodstream slower, so in a zero carb diet the amount of tryglycerides drops even though you might be eating more fat. But if you zero fat and eat nothing but carbs, your blood lipd profile will also improve. The Chinese from Southern China, who live on nothing but white rice and vegetables(100% carb diet) have some of the healthiest blood lipd profiles of any people on Earth. The keto diet doe improve your health markers in the short run, but it is not a diet that our physiology is adapted to cope with effectively, so in the long run it is bad for our health.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Another good post.

[flinstones1]

x2.
good post

Another good post.

your an idiot too. For the last time, there is no debate. Carbs do absolutely NOTHING to benefit the human body. Not only do carbohydrates lower the immune system,dry out the skin, compromise insulin sensitivity,trigger a host of diseases like diabetes ..they also dramatically accelerate the aging process.  Now I eat carbs too because I like that taste but dont try to justify your daily habits as optimal.  Now fruit, dairy and sweet potatoes is another story and has a host of documented  health benefits.  whole fat dairy  has many health benefits from protection against diabetes to raising igf levels...but higher igf levels are linked to cancer so dairy is a double edged sword/ The reality is most food is a double edged sword. Spinach is high in oxalic acid but it has been shown to reverse signs of aging. Blueberries are one of the most powerful fruits known to man, but there is some belief that large amounts of fructose can increase glycation in humans. Sweet Potatoes are full of antioxidants and beta carotene but are also high in trypsin inhibitors which actually inhibit the digestion of protein. Animals fed a diet high in trypsin inhibitors often become ill and fail to grow properly. Peanut butter contains  an phtoestrogen/alfatoxin which is liver toxic but peanuts (like grapes and blueberries) are one of the few foods in nature that  are rich in reversatol.

 as far as brown rice and oatmeal? Get out. We are omnivores and our body requires soft soluble fiber from those found in fruit and vegetables. Grains should be eaten by one thing only..birds.

[b-boy]

your an idiot too. For the last time, there is no debate. Carbs do absolutely NOTHING to benefit the human body. Not only do carbohydrates lower the immune system,dry out the skin, compromise insulin sensitivity,trigger a host of diseases like diabetes ..they also dramatically accelerate the aging process.  Now I eat carbs too because I like that taste but dont try to justify your daily habits as optimal.  Now fruit, dairy and sweet potatoes is another story and has a host of documented  health benefits.  whole fat dairy  has many health benefits from protection against diabetes to raising igf levels...but higher igf levels are linked to cancer so dairy is a double edged sword/ The reality is most food is a double edged sword. Spinach is high in oxalic acid but it has been shown to reverse signs of aging. Blueberries are one of the most powerful fruits known to man, but there is some belief that large amounts of fructose can increase glycation in humans. Sweet Potatoes are full of antioxidants and beta carotene but are also high in trypsin inhibitors which actually inhibit the digestion of protein. Animals fed a diet high in trypsin inhibitors often become ill and fail to grow properly. Peanut butter contains  an phtoestrogen/alfatoxin which is liver toxic but peanuts (like grapes and blueberries) are one of the few foods in nature that  are rich in reversatol.

 as far as brown rice and oatmeal? Get out. We are omnivores and our body requires soft soluble fiber from those found in fruit and vegetables. Grains should be eaten by one thing only..birds.

excellent fucking post.

[Moen]

No retarded post, hampering neurotransmitter production and decreasing thyroid output are not benefits to the human body in my book lol

[Moen]

Most of the stuff he says is also not true. Carbohydrates drying out the skin, are you fo real nigga 

[JP_RC]

your an idiot too. For the last time, there is no debate. Carbs do absolutely NOTHING to benefit the human body. Not only do carbohydrates lower the immune system,dry out the skin, compromise insulin sensitivity,trigger a host of diseases like diabetes ..they also dramatically accelerate the aging process.  Now I eat carbs too because I like that taste but dont try to justify your daily habits as optimal.  Now fruit, dairy and sweet potatoes is another story and has a host of documented  health benefits.  whole fat dairy  has many health benefits from protection against diabetes to raising igf levels...but higher igf levels are linked to cancer so dairy is a double edged sword/ The reality is most food is a double edged sword. Spinach is high in oxalic acid but it has been shown to reverse signs of aging. Blueberries are one of the most powerful fruits known to man, but there is some belief that large amounts of fructose can increase glycation in humans. Sweet Potatoes are full of antioxidants and beta carotene but are also high in trypsin inhibitors which actually inhibit the digestion of protein. Animals fed a diet high in trypsin inhibitors often become ill and fail to grow properly. Peanut butter contains  an phtoestrogen/alfatoxin which is liver toxic but peanuts (like grapes and blueberries) are one of the few foods in nature that  are rich in reversatol.

 as far as brown rice and oatmeal? Get out. We are omnivores and our body requires soft soluble fiber from those found in fruit and vegetables. Grains should be eaten by one thing only..birds.

Carbohydrate consumption does NOT cause diabetes. Are you for real with this?
Its been shown and its a fact that obesity is the main culprit for diabetes in normal people, carbs have little to do with it....overeating and becoming overweight has everything to do with it.

[JP_RC]

Most of the stuff he says is also not true. Carbohydrates drying out the skin, are you fo real guy 

He believes in "cavemen" diets....I think that explains what he posted. 

[suckmymuscle]

your an idiot too. For the last time, there is no debate. Carbs do absolutely NOTHING to benefit the human body. Not only do carbohydrates lower the immune system,dry out the skin, compromise insulin sensitivity,trigger a host of diseases like diabetes ..they also dramatically accelerate the aging process.  Now I eat carbs too because I like that taste but dont try to justify your daily habits as optimal.  Now fruit, dairy and sweet potatoes is another story and has a host of documented  health benefits.  whole fat dairy  has many health benefits from protection against diabetes to raising igf levels...but higher igf levels are linked to cancer so dairy is a double edged sword/ The reality is most food is a double edged sword. Spinach is high in oxalic acid but it has been shown to reverse signs of aging. Blueberries are one of the most powerful fruits known to man, but there is some belief that large amounts of fructose can increase glycation in humans. Sweet Potatoes are full of antioxidants and beta carotene but are also high in trypsin inhibitors which actually inhibit the digestion of protein. Animals fed a diet high in trypsin inhibitors often become ill and fail to grow properly. Peanut butter contains  an phtoestrogen/alfatoxin which is liver toxic but peanuts (like grapes and blueberries) are one of the few foods in nature that  are rich in reversatol.

 as far as brown rice and oatmeal? Get out. We are omnivores and our body requires soft soluble fiber from those found in fruit and vegetables. Grains should be eaten by one thing only..birds.

  Like a toddler covering his ears and screaming "lalalaalalalal" when a grown up tells him something he doesen't want to listen...

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[flinstones1]

excellent fucking post.

. Your ok too, sry I gave you shit

[suckmymuscle]

  The only respectful defense I have ever come across for the keto diet is the issue of glycemic control for diabetics. With this, defenders of the keto diet have a real point. It is hard to control blood sugar levels on a diet that includes carbs even using very low glycemic carbs. But such a diet, whilst improving diabetes, will create a lot of other problems. I think that eating no more than 20% to 40% of calories from very low glycemic carbs, like cream of rye and whole oats, with protein and fibers to further low the glycemic load of the carbs, will keep blood sugar at levels healthy even for a diabetic, and will avoid most of the digestive, metabolic and eliminative problems that come from too much fat and protein.

  Also, whilst a keto diet might stop and even reverse diabetes, remember that it is a diet rich in saturated fats that gets you diabetic in the first place so at least some versions of the keto diet, like Atkinson's, will not only not improve diabetes but probably worsen it even without carbs in the diet. A diet very rich in sugar seldom makes you diabetic if you don't also eat tons of saturated fats. Saturated fats increase insulin resistence, decrease cells permeability to insulin and increase glucagon levels.

SUCKMYMUSCLE