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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Benny B on September 07, 2011, 07:02:23 AM
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Wed, Sep. 07, 2011
The real Reagan might not meet today's GOP standards
Mark Z. Barabak
LOS ANGELES — When eight Republican presidential candidates gather to debate Wednesday night in Simi Valley, one thing seems certain: Lavish tribute will be paid to Ronald Reagan.
That is fitting: The event is being held at Reagan's presidential library and burial ground, high on a bluff overlooking the Santa Susana Mountains.
It's also smart politics. Reagan has become a sainted figure in the GOP who, not incidentally, is the most successful and popular of the party's modern presidents.
But the Reagan reverie overlooks much of the Reagan reality.
As president, the conservative icon approved several tax increases to deal with a soaring budget deficit, repeatedly boosted the nation's debt limit, signed into law a bill granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants and, despite his anti-Washington rhetoric, oversaw an increase in the size and spending of the federal government. Before that, as California governor, he enacted what at the time was the largest state tax increase in American history. He also signed into law one of the nation's most permissive abortion bills. Any Republican who tried that today would be cast out of the party.
The fact that Reagan often took such actions speaks to what, by modern Republican standards, may be one of the greatest heresies of all: Reagan was a pragmatist, willing, when necessary, to cut a deal and compromise.
"He had a strong set of core values and operated off of those," said Stuart Spencer, a Republican strategist who stood by Reagan's side for virtually his entire political career, starting with his first run for governor. "But when push came to shove, he did various things he didn't like doing, because he knew it was in the best interests of the state or country at the time."
Spencer dismissed the current vogue of Reagan revisionism: "A lot of those people running out there don't really understand what he did. It's just a matter of attaching themselves to a winner."
Reagan's transformation from man to myth is, to some degree, calculated. The passage of time almost invariably casts a warm (or at least warmer) glow on recent past presidents. Thanks to their good works, Democrats Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter have risen in the public's esteem. Even Richard Nixon, who resigned in disgrace, has gained in opinion surveys.
In Reagan's case, there has been an orchestrated campaign over the past several years by acolytes eager to glorify his image and affix his name to as many public markers - airports, mountains, roads, bridges, buildings - as possible.
But Reagan is also celebrated because he achieved big things, both domestically, where he revived the nation's flagging self-confidence, and abroad, where he helped drive the Soviet Union to extinction.
After a deep and stubborn recession early on, the economy thrived for much of Reagan's two terms and, though partisans may debate the causes and the ultimate costs of that boomlet, those frothy times compare quite favorably with today's anxiety-ridden environment.
"It wasn't like pushing a button and the machine just took off," said Lou Cannon, a retired Washington Post reporter who wrote several books chronicling Reagan's career, starting with his two terms in Sacramento. "It took some calibration" - the top income tax rate was cut drastically while various tax breaks and loopholes ended - "but Reagan was practical and willing to calibrate."
Many also extol Reagan for his command of the presidency - both its power and trappings - in further contrast, they say, with the current occupant of the White House.
"He came into office with a strong set of principles and, with some digressions and a few failures, fought for them, represented them and stood by them," said Ken Khachigian, a former Reagan speechwriter and political strategist. (Reagan was also a fabulously gifted politician, even if that description made him blanch. "He had a way of seeming steadfast," Khachigian said, "even when he was bending.")
The Republican Party has obviously changed greatly since Reagan first ran for president in 1968, and even since he left office with a 63 percent approval rating in January 1989. It is hard to imagine a governor with Reagan's record on taxes and abortion faring very well in today's GOP, even if he did repudiate those positions.
Reagan's willingness to compromise has also fallen out of favor in a Republican Party fired up by its give-no-quarter tea party ranks.
"People that pragmatic now are what they call RINOs," said Spencer, using the epithet "Republican in Name Only" that is flung by keepers of the faith at those deemed less than pure.
If, however, the Reagan of real life seems less welcome on Wednesday night's debate stage than the Reagan the candidates are likely to conjure, not every admirer seems as ready to restyle the 40th president to suit today's political fashion.
"You can make someone so iconic and so near divine that you lose the essence of the man," said Craig Shirley, a longtime conservative strategist and Reagan biographer. "If you are faithful and you want to do the man justice, then you have to accept the whole body of knowledge," compromises and all.
"I don't think," Shirley said, "you should cherry-pick history."
Mark Z. Barabak writes for the Los Angeles Times.
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Reagan raised taxes AND turned tail and ran from terrorists who killed US Marines.
He would be laughed out of the Republican party.
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Reagan raised taxes AND turned tail and ran from terrorists who killed US Marines.
He would be laughed out of the Republican party.
Someone needs to bitch slap the taste out your mouth gaybear.
Reagan was ten times the man Barrack Husein Obunghole is.
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Reagan against Saddam/Ghadaffi/Bin Laden would have been epic..
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Reagan wouldn't put up with this bull shit for 5 minutes.....we need an ass kicker like him in office....not some wimp.......Nobama is on his way out.
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Someone needs to bitch slap the taste out your mouth gaybear.
Reagan was ten times the man Barrack Husein Obunghole is.
Harder men than you have tried and it just doesn't take.
Nothing I've said is untrue. People like to rewrite history when hero worship comes into play, but the truth is easy to find.
After the Beirut bombing, Reagan packed it up and went home.
A suicide bomber detonated a truck full of explosives at a U.S. Marine barracks located at Beirut International Airport; 241 U.S. Marines were killed and more than 100 others wounded. They were part of a contingent of 1,800 Marines that had been sent to Lebanon as part of a multinational force to help separate the warring Lebanese factions. (Twice during the early 1980s the U.S. had deployed troops to Lebanon to deal with the fall-out from the 1982 Israeli invasion. In the first deployment, Marines helped oversee the peaceful withdrawal of the PLO from Beirut. In mid-September 1982 -- after the U.S. troops had left -- Israel's Lebanese allies massacred an estimated 800 unarmed Palestinian civilians remaining in refugee camps. Following this, 1,800 Marines had been ordered back into Lebanon.)
In his September 2001 FRONTLINE interview, Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger said the U.S. still lacks "actual knowledge of who did the bombing" of the Marine barracks. But it suspected Hezbollah, believed to be supported in part by Iran and Syria. Hezbollah denied its involvement.
The president assembled his national security team to devise a plan of military action. The planned target was the Sheik Abdullah barracks in Baalbek, Lebanon, which housed Iranian Revolutionary Guards believed to be training Hezbollah fighters. Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger aborted the mission, reportedly because of his concerns that it would harm U.S. relations with other Arab nations. Instead, President Reagan ordered the battleship USS New Jersey, stationed off the coast of Lebanon, to the hills near Beirut. The move was seen as largely ineffective.
Four months after the Marine barracks bombing, U.S. Marines were ordered to start pulling out of Lebanon.
Read more: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/target/etc/cron.html#ixzz1XHOuEVix
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Reagan wouldn't put up with this bull shit for 5 minutes.....we need an ass kicker like him in office....not some wimp.......Nobama is on his way out.
You're literally not even worth arguing with.
You just don't know your history.
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This book will teach you a lot about the ME, especially the war in Lebanon. Of course, you can always just call the author a libtard and write off history, quite a preferred tactic on these boards.
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Harder men than you have tried
Outed.
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Outed.
;D
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You're literally not even worth arguing with.
You just don't know your history.
EXCUSE ME.....HAVE WE MET??? YOU MY FRIEND NEED TO GET WITH IT......IF YOU ARE DEFENDING NOBAMA??? BARACK COULDN'T CARRY REAGAN'S JOCK STRAP!!!
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your danm right i would !!!!!!!!regan for the win !!!
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your danm right i would !!!!!!!!regan for the win !!!
I know right Regan is a hero. The man who took on the Russians. He was a tough son of a bitch. Zero is a pussy worst President we have ever had.
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Updating my site as we speak. Awesome MTB video just uploaded!
www.letskillsometime.com
http://www.letskillsometime.com/review/mtb-world-championships-2011-danny-hart-run/
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Cool site. Does it work in China?
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Cool site. Does it work in China?
what kinda question is that? ;D
and thx! I always spam one post about my site in these offtopic political threads lol.
edit* "11 days, 11 hours and 13 minutes." damn, I just missed 111111
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Reagan wouldn't put up with this bull shit for 5 minutes.....we need an ass kicker like him in office....not some wimp.......Nobama is on his way out.
Who cares what you say, you're too short to vote.
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what kinda question is that? ;D
and thx! I always spam one post about my site in these offtopic political threads lol.
edit* "11 days, 11 hours and 13 minutes." damn, I just missed 111111
Honest question. I'm moving to China next week and I'm curious if it works there.
They usually block anything that links to youtube, so I was wondering.
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Honest question. I'm moving to China next week and I'm curious if it works there.
They usually block anything that links to youtube, so I was wondering.
Oh, sorry. I have no idea..
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Well, unfortunately I probably won't be able to tell you if it is blocked.
Getbig was blocked last time I was there (one year ago). Unless I can get a proxy server set up.
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Well, unfortunately I probably won't be able to tell you if it is blocked.
Getbig was blocked last time I was there (one year ago). Unless I can get a proxy server set up.
(http://i.imgur.com/z6Tqj.gif)
Just download tor browser. Extracts in a mmap and then you just use it from there. and can change ip again by just pressing "new identity"
(https://www.torproject.org/images/tbb-screenshot2.jpg)
https://www.torproject.org/projects/torbrowser.html.en
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Last Real President we had. No Teleprompter needed. Best of my lifetime.
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Who cares what you say, you're too short to vote.
;)
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If any of you pieces of communist shit wonder why Reagan is so beloved and well respected - this speech tells it all.
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(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqwyyxGhzi1qaboh9o1_500.jpg)
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who's gandpa is this? lol!
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Reagan - tear down this wall
Obama - put on that Hijab
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Reagan - tear down this wall
Obama - put on that Hijab
Double FAIL. ::)
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Double FAIL. ::)
You 95ers are a real hoot. Blacks have voted themselves into political irrelevance by accepting the empty promises of poverty pimps, race hustlers, communists, guilt ridden white yuppie phonies, etc.
Blacks voted 88% for mondale in 84! Talk about morons!
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You 95ers are a real hoot. Blacks have voted themselves into political irrelevance by accepting the empty promises of poverty pimps, race hustlers, communists, guilt ridden white yuppie phonies, etc.
Blacks voted 88% for mondale in 84! Talk about morons!
Yet another FAIL. Must be frustrating having such a big mouth, and such a limited skill-set.
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Yet another FAIL. Must be frustrating having such a big mouth, and such a limited skill-set.
Yeah, a real fail when one segment of the population voted 90% or better for the same assholes in lock step as things get worse and worse and worse for them. Real FAIL there no?
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Yeah, a real fail when one segment of the population voted 90% or better for the same assholes in lock step as things get worse and worse and worse for them. Real FAIL there no?
FAIL, yet again. Just can't keep on topic, can you? Should look into getting yourself some ADHD testing. No shame in that.
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FAIL, yet again. Just can't keep on topic, can you? Should look into getting yourself some ADHD testing. No shame in that.
What's a fail Dr. Chimps he's correct on most things. He mite come off a little bit hard but he's right. You're a commie shitbird.
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Yet another FAIL. Must be frustrating having such a big mouth, and such a limited skill-set.
Don't get bitter your failed messiah can't shine RR's shoes.
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(http://i55.tinypic.com/1z6gjmv.jpg)
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Warren Buffet? Really?
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Ronald Reagan wouldn`t be accepted down south. Ever. ;)
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I like this much better than any speech by Reagan.
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And you morons wonder why Reagan is beloved?
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And you morons wonder why Reagan is beloved?
Why did Reagan cut and run from terrorists who killed all those Marines?
I can't understand why you don't have a problem with that.
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Why did Reagan cut and run from terrorists who killed all those Marines?
I can't understand why you don't have a problem with that.
Read his diaries and you will learn why he did what he did.
Amazing too - you pieces of garbage on the left trash reagan for that while at the same time attack GWB for going after the terrorists for 9/11.
Go figure. Nothing like the sheer hypocrisy of the far left commie cabal to get a laugh from.
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Read his diaries and you will learn why he did what he did.
Amazing too - you pieces of garbage on the left trash reagan for that while at the same time attack GWB for going after the terrorists for 9/11.
Go figure. Nothing like the sheer hypocrisy of the far left commie cabal to get a laugh from.
The terrorists in Iraq?
You have no clue of history, do you?
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Read his diaries and you will learn why he did what he did.
Amazing too - you pieces of garbage on the left trash reagan for that while at the same time attack GWB for going after the terrorists for 9/11.
You mean the made up ones that allegedly did 9/11?
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And you morons wonder why Reagan is beloved?
PEA BRAIN on a youtube blitz! ::)
If you spent as much time LOOKING FOR A JOB as you do searching out Reagan sound bites, you'd be a lot better off. I guess you're happy continuing to deliver pizzas part time at Uncle Vito's Pizzeria. ::)
Once again, here are the FACTS:
As president, the conservative icon approved several tax increases to deal with a soaring budget deficit, repeatedly boosted the nation's debt limit, signed into law a bill granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants and, despite his anti-Washington rhetoric, oversaw an increase in the size and spending of the federal government. Before that, as California governor, he enacted what at the time was the largest state tax increase in American history. He also signed into law one of the nation's most permissive abortion bills. Any Republican who tried that today would be cast out of the party.
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The terrorists in Iraq?
You have no clue of history, do you?
Really dumbass, you wanted to deploy combat forces into a war with what 5 or more sides...2 muslim factions, christians, druze, syria, Israel etc etc etc. Explain who we would attack. You act like some friggen historian, where were we just 10 years prior. The American people were not going to except getting sucked into Beirut. We had bigger fish to fry in Europe. You act like this was happening in a vacuum. Enjoy China.
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Really dumbass, you wanted to deploy combat forces into a war with what 5 or more sides...2 muslim factions, christians, druze, syria, Israel etc etc etc. Explain who we would attack. You act like some friggen historian, where were we just 10 years prior. The American people were not going to except getting sucked into Beirut. We had bigger fish to fry in Europe. You act like this was happening in a vacuum. Enjoy China.
If you knew the history of OBL, which you obviously you don't, you would understand how ridiculous it is to suggest that Saddam was in league with AQ for 9/11.
They were diametrically opposed forces. OBL wanted to use his forces to remove Saddam from Kuwait, but Kuwait wouldn't go for it.
When American boots touched Saudi ground, we fostered the hate that would push them over the edge.
Do you understand how much militant Islamists forbid kafirs in that land? Neither did Bush I.
And Bush II had to have the Shia/ Sunni split AFTER he invaded Iraq. A truly dumb man, considering you can learn that at literally any junior college.
You're just trying to stroke your ego about Iraq. You've been there so it must have been defending freedom and fighting the terrorists, right?
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Imagine if Obama did something like this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair
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Imagine if Obama did something like this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair
Ever hear of fast and furious? Geez dude. Wake the fuck up. At least a few hundred are already dead.
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Ever hear of fast and furious? Geez dude. Wake the fuck up. At least a few hundred are already dead.
Horrible movie. I hope they don`t make any more of them.
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I know some of you kids are a little too young to remember, but the Reagan era was not all laughs and giggles.
His "voodoo" economics was not just out there, but quite devastating for a few years. He had a method of bottoming out the economy, just to the point of resuscitating it, and creating enough mass hysteria that led to the presumption that he somehow was a solid economic leader.
Reagan wasn't the worst president in washington, but he certainly wasn't a great one either.
"1"
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I know some of you kids are a little too young to remember, but the Reagan era was not all laughs and giggles.
His "voodoo" economics was not just out there, but quite devastating for a few years. He had a method of bottoming out the economy, just to the point of resuscitating it, and creating enough mass hysteria that led to the presumption that he somehow was a solid economic leader.
Reagan wasn't the worst president in washington, but he certainly wasn't a great one either.
"1"
He was a great "leader," for whatever that means as a statement.
He walked, talked, and acted like the leader of the free world which, while his economic policies may or may not have been provided the impetus for America's growth during the 80s, made you feel proud to be part of America...made you (and many other people around the world) believe that America were undoubtable the "good guys" of the cold war.
Whether or not the specific policies he pushed while in power were invariantly beneficial on their own, there is a LOT to be said about the potential for economic growth of a country when 200+ million people believe they are the "good guys" in a global war where their way of life, global freedom, and everyone's right to personal success is thought to be at stake.
As far as I'm concerned, the "policies" of anyone in power end up being nothing more than a new obstacle to avoid as they work to improve their (and their family's) status in society, so I can find numerous faults in Reagans socioeconomic policy, but making an entire nation feel a sense of confidence in it's principles and that their efforts for personal progress has global significance is something rare.
Churchill had it in spades. Reagan's speeches were soaked in it.
The current administration appears to have no understanding of it.
Unfortunately, I think it's going to take a different administration than the current one for that kind of "sense of pride" to have a chance at making a comeback....
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i don't think so, no.
"Artist's Statement
I had already turned in my cartoon Friday afternoon when, Saturday morning, I read the news that Reagan’s health was failing. I began drawing immediately. I have had a rough draft of this cartoon ready for this occasion for years. As the day continued I kept getting e-mails and text messages from friends excitedly anticipating the Gipper’s impending death. Finally Steve, with whom I have planned for over a decade to hold a party on the day of Reagan’s funeral, called me from the track, where he was betting on the Belmont Stakes, to tell me that the old bastard was finally dead. He reported that there had been a perfunctory Moment of Silence, lasting approximately 1.6 seconds, before everyone went back to betting. It was beautiful. As the afternoon went on I got a flood of congratulatory calls from friends around the world—Ben in Boston, Megan and Mike in New York, Berkeley in Baltimore, even Allison in Bulgaria. I e-mailed this cartoon into the City Paper around seven P.M., begging them in the name of our sweet lord and savior Jesus Christ to stop the presses and please run this Wednesday, and then headed down to Baltimore to drink tiny beers and watch The Big Lebowski. The Reagan party will be held at my house this weekend.
Perhaps it may seem insensitive and unpatriotic to some for me to run such an ugly cartoon at this time of national mourning. To those of you who hold this view, I must respectfully say fuck you. Some of my younger readers may not even remember Ronald Regan’s presidency, and I would not want them to be misled by the onslaught of state propaganda they’ll be subjected to this week. Calling him the Great Communicator is like calling Hitler the Great Negotiator, and if we’re going to credit him with winning the Cold War we may as well credit him with the Challenger disaster and the return of Halley’s Comet. Let me tell you what it was really like:
Even at age twelve I could tell that Jimmy Carter was an honest man trying to address complicated issues and Ronald Reagan was a brilcreemed salesman telling people what they wanted to hear. I secretly wept on the stairs the night he was elected President, because I understood that the kind of shitheads I had to listen to in the cafeteria grew up to become voters, and won. I spent the eight years he was in office living in one of those science-fiction movies where everyone is taken over by aliens—I was appalled by how stupid and mean-spirited and repulsive the world was becoming while everyone else in America seemed to agree that things were finally exactly as they should be. The Washington Press corps was so enamored of his down-to-earth charm that they never checked his facts, but if you watched his face when it was at rest, when he wasn’t performing for anyone, you could see him for what he really was—a black-eyed, slit-mouthed, lizard-faced old son-of-a-bitch. He was a bad actor, an informer for McCarthy, and a hired front man for a gang of Texas oilmen, fundamentalist dingbats, and right-wing psychotics out of Dr. Strangelove. He put a genial face on chauvanism, callousness, and greed, and made people feel good about being bigots again. He likened Central American death squads to our founding fathers and called the Taliban “freedom fighters.” His legacy includes the dismantling of Franklin Roosevelt’s New Deal, the final dirty win of Management over Labor, the outsourcing of America’s manufacturing base, the embezzlement of almost all the country's wealth by 1% of its citizens, the scapegoating of the poor and black, the War on Drugs, the eviction of schizophrenics into the streets, AIDS, acid rain, Iran-Contra, and, let’s not forget, the corpses of two hundred forty United States Marines. He moved the center of political discourse in this country to somewhere in between Richard Nixon and Augusto Pinochet. He believed in astrology and Armageddon and didn't know the difference between history and movies; his stories were lies and his jokes were scripted. He was the triumph of image over truth, paving the way for even more vapid spokesmodels like George W. Bush. He was, as everyone agrees, exactly what he appeared to be—nothing. He made me ashamed to be an American. If there was any justice in this world his Presidential Library would contain nothing but boys' adventure books and bad cowboy movies, and the only things named after him would be shopping malls and Potter's Fields. Let the earth where he is buried be seeded with salt."
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I know some of you kids are a little too young to remember, but the Reagan era was not all laughs and giggles.
His "voodoo" economics was not just out there, but quite devastating for a few years. He had a method of bottoming out the economy, just to the point of resuscitating it, and creating enough mass hysteria that led to the presumption that he somehow was a solid economic leader.
Reagan wasn't the worst president in washington, but he certainly wasn't a great one either.
"1"
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-gbzmXhyliC0/Tjo2Zx697YI/AAAAAAAAAMQ/rV0dDx-3dys/s1600/Reaganomics.jpg)
(http://www.museumofplay.org/blog/play-stuff/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/reaganomics.jpg)
(http://www.evolvefish.com/fish/media/S-ReaganomicsPonzi.gif)
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!
(http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/attachments/north-american-politics/1907d1297880426-reaganomics-chart_rise_of_super_rich.gif)
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(http://www.politifake.org/image/political/1101/reaganomics-reaganomics-is-still-around-today-political-poster-1294413849.gif)
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(http://benjaminsapiens.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/06_01_04_remembering_reagan.jpg)
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BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!
(http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/attachments/north-american-politics/1907d1297880426-reaganomics-chart_rise_of_super_rich.gif)
Did you actually look at the portion of this graph representing the years Reagan was in office?
Hint: You might want to pick a better decade with which to drop your "BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!" graph, because the Clinton years carry about the same inequality level as the Reagan years.....and both are much lower than the Bush years and the rise of the modern "religious right" Republican party.
Here's a decade by decade breakdown that doesn't take 90 years of data and pretend that a time frame 60 years in and roughly 1/10th of the total data represents the other 9/10ths of the graph's trend line. Of the three Republican-as-President bars, Reagan's has the lowest level of income disparity...
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If any of you pieces of communist shit wonder why Reagan is so beloved and well respected - this speech tells it all.
reagan wasn't perfect. you can cite a powerful speech from a hollywood actor, like you did.
the TOTALITY of his time in office might be 80%. Obama might be 40%. Clinton may have been 70%.
But this whole "Reagan walked on water" thing... well, I'm just glad to see repubs admitting the dude wasn't perfect.
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No one said he walked on water, but compared to what went on in the 70's he was exactly what the nation needed.
Additionally, he had a far left congress to deal with a lot of time. again - read his diaries and stop spinning off of MSNBC created soundbites.
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Additionally, he had a far left congress to deal with a lot of time. again - read his diaries and stop spinning off of MSNBC created soundbites.
So reading a man's diaries is the best way to get an objective view of his actions?
MmmmmmmmmmmmKay ;)
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So reading a man's diaries is the best way to get an objective view of his actions?
MmmmmmmmmmmmKay ;)
As opposed to taking talking points from Madcow like you do? uuugghhh, Yes.