Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure

Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: cephissus on September 17, 2011, 03:28:22 PM

Title: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: cephissus on September 17, 2011, 03:28:22 PM
Can we get a clear definition on this term, once and for all?

How about the distinction between "real muscle" and "fake muscle" too?

 ???
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: Wiggs on September 17, 2011, 03:31:47 PM
Foundation or "base" is lifting without the use of anabolic/androgenic steroids, gh, slin or any other illegal PEDs.

Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: cephissus on September 17, 2011, 03:33:32 PM
So, the muscle you can gain as a natural?  Which as we all know, is not much?

So why is this always mentioned?  What's the big deal?
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: Nilrem on September 17, 2011, 03:34:02 PM
Foundation is generally applied to the face before a woman slathers on the make up.
When using that term in bodybuilding, it's all relative isn't it.
How anyone who uses drugs to enhance their body can say one drug is realer than the other, is beyond me.
When they stop using, they all eventually drop down to their true body weight. So, again, what foundation??
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: The Ugly on September 17, 2011, 03:36:12 PM
It's like "muscle maturity." Means nothing.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: kiwiol on September 17, 2011, 04:05:49 PM
Foundation is emperor gh15's new clothes, which only his pupils can see.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: MikMaq on September 17, 2011, 04:18:29 PM
It's like "muscle maturity." Means nothing.
X2

People like to pretend that this natural base is what keeps expro's from looking like shit, reality is after years of abuse your left with the natural test levels of a 5 year old girl.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: Natural Man on September 17, 2011, 06:22:44 PM
reaching your best on all bodyparts lifting naturally for at least 5 years i guess?
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: Meso_z on September 18, 2011, 01:37:30 AM
Something Levrone did not have.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: BILL ANVIL on September 18, 2011, 06:16:38 AM
Can we get a clear definition on this term, once and for all?

How about the distinction between "real muscle" and "fake muscle" too?

 ???

Your on a bodybuilding forum and you ask a silly question like that? Spend a few more years in the gym then ask what it means.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: gh15 on September 18, 2011, 06:26:14 AM
Foundation or "base" is lifting without the use of anabolic/androgenic steroids, gh, slin or any other illegal PEDs.



NO !

what kind of pupil are you? ? ?

Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: gh15 on September 18, 2011, 06:27:47 AM
NO! what kind of pupil are you? ?
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on September 18, 2011, 06:28:06 AM
NO !

what kind of pupil are you? ? ?



hahahaha what kind of ' teacher ' are you?
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: gh15 on September 18, 2011, 06:28:20 AM
Foundation is emperor gh15's new clothes, which only his pupils can see.

NO! ,, what kind of pupil are you??
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: gh15 on September 18, 2011, 06:29:28 AM
oh i will explain to all of you right now,, after im done with the no what kind of  yada yada balonie...

Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: gh15 on September 18, 2011, 06:35:47 AM
ok ,,

THIS IS IMPORTANT I WROTE IN BIBLE THIS FEW TIMES ,,

foundation is

the time you had in the gymnasium TRAINING with ANABOLIC STEROIDS IN YOUR BLOOD.... IT IS NOT THE ACTUAL TRAINNIG NATURAL ,, TRAINING NATURAL IS PART OF HAVING FOUNDATION ...BUT THE FOUNDATION THAT I TALK ABOUT IS TRAINING + ANABOLIC STEROIDS! ....

WHEN I SAY SOMEONE DOESNT HAVE FOUNDATION IT MEAN THEY JUMPED TOOOOOOOOOOOO FAST ON THE HGH AND INSULINA AND WENT INTO MEGADOSE LAND BEFOREEEE DEVELOPING ENOUGH MUSCLE DENSITY.... DENNNNNNNNNNNNNSITY ....AND ENOUGH MUSCULAR DEVELOPMENT IN GENERAL....AGAIN! IT IS NOT THE DIAMETER OF MUSCLE IT IS THE ACTUAL DEVELOPMENT OF THE MUSCLE THAT PROJECT STRENGTH AND CREATE A BASE ON WHICH ...YES I JUST SAID ON WHICH...ON WHICH YOU CAN BUILD THE RON COLMANS AND THE DORIAN YATES...

PHILSULINA HAD HAPPY DAY YESTERDAY HE IS YOUR BODYBUILD CHAMP MR O BUT HE LACK THE FOUNDATION ,, IM NOT A MEAN PERSON I DONT HATE HIM ,, HE KNOWS I DONT HATE HIM ...I SAID HE WOULD WIN ,, LONG BEFORE HE WON I SAID HE WOULD WIN ,, BUT! HE JUST DOESNT HAVE THE FOUNDATION MY FRIENDS,, SORRY

gh15 approved
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: suckmymuscle on September 18, 2011, 11:00:25 AM
Can we get a clear definition on this term, once and for all?

How about the distinction between "real muscle" and "fake muscle" too?

 ???

  It means nothing. It is just a babble from the queen of trolls, GH15.

  You could say, however, that even among drug-using bodybuilders, those who did compound movements with dumbbells and barbells for many years have a muscle thickness that machine-training bodybuilders lack, especially in their quads, pecs and back.

SUCKMYMUSCLE
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: BILL ANVIL on September 18, 2011, 08:11:30 PM
  It means nothing. It is just a babble from the queen of trolls, GH15.

  You could say, however, that even among drug-using bodybuilders, those who did compound movements with dumbbells and barbells for many years have a muscle thickness that machine-training bodybuilders lack, especially in their quads, pecs and back.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Muscle the comes out at you and has the 'bang' effect when you look at it compared to just bloated soft crap hanging off your bones and looking unimpressive in clothes. Heaths shoulders are no wider than the average joes he stands beside in pictures. The guy can't even be considered huge especially when comparing him to past Olympia competitors and winners.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: gh15 on September 18, 2011, 08:13:41 PM
lol he is not huge with out clothes either,, he is blown up ...big diff between being huge and blown up,, 2 diff things,, the blown up can only come after you already big,, then it works,,

gh15 approved
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on September 18, 2011, 08:19:05 PM
foundation means first you get as big as possible with roids


then you max out with gh added

and only then insulina


virgin muscle is when you immediatly jump on truck loads of all of them


RIGHT?
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: booty on September 18, 2011, 08:21:30 PM
To me building a foundation means training for several years doing the basic compound exercises which build strength and muscle....barbell squats, deadlifts, bench press etc.  And training HARD and HEAVY, using very little machine excercises.  I don't think it's got anything to do with aas.  So many people try to skip building the foundation these days...they just have no idea how important it is.  
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: gh15 on September 18, 2011, 08:22:48 PM
foundation means first you get as big as possible with roids


then you max out with gh added

and only then insulina


virgin muscle is when you immediatly jump on truck loads of all of them


RIGHT?

yes,,and philsulina is virgin muscle that is MAXED!,, this is big problem for bodybuilding,, it became ONLY DRUG AND DRUG RESPONSE as of yesterday,,in other words,, before you even go in a gymnasium ...make sure you got your source and he is good source and legit and have good products....because with out that source you will be N O T H I N G

gh15 approved
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: gh15 on September 18, 2011, 08:24:38 PM
To me building a foundation means training for several years doing the basic compound exercises which build strength and muscle....barbell squats, deadlifts, bench press etc.  And training HARD and HEAVY, using very little machine excercises.  I don't think it's got anything to do with aas.  So many people try to skip building the foundation these days...they just have no idea how important it is.  


what i mean by foundation is,, lifting with anabolic steroids in blood for long enough time to develop good solid structure,, but as of today ....go ahead and jump on all the hgh and insulina you can get your hands on because...if you dont! you will be with good foundation stuck at 200lb ....whiel the gh insulina mega doses will be sitting with jason korea eating some kimchee

gh15 approved
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: asbrus on September 18, 2011, 08:26:49 PM
yes,,and philsulina is virgin muscle that is MAXED!,, this is big problem for bodybuilding,, it became ONLY DRUG AND DRUG RESPONSE as of yesterday,,in other words,, before you even go in a gymnasium ...make sure you got your source and he is good source and legit and have good products....because with out that source you will be N O T H I N G

gh15 approved

H0W EARLY DID PHIL START AND H0W MANY INSULIN IUS IS HE TAKING?
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: slaveboy1980 on September 18, 2011, 08:32:53 PM
H0W EARLY DID PHIL START AND H0W MANY INSULIN IUS IS HE TAKING?

ask Abdul-Khalim Quadrallayev
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: BILL ANVIL on September 18, 2011, 08:38:44 PM
To me building a foundation means training for several years doing the basic compound exercises which build strength and muscle....barbell squats, deadlifts, bench press etc.  And training HARD and HEAVY, using very little machine excercises.  I don't think it's got anything to do with aas.  So many people try to skip building the foundation these days...they just have no idea how important it is.  

You got it man, thats why there are 200lb guys who look bigger and more impressive than 230lbs guys. quality really makes a difference
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: slaveboy1980 on September 18, 2011, 08:40:35 PM
bullshit...you can build your foundation with machine training. you can use anything as long as you put tension on the muscle.

the point is that you lift for a few years and create a natural foundation before you become a drug pig
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: booty on September 18, 2011, 09:06:04 PM
I don't believe machines build foundation.  Look around at people who mainly do machines over free weights...they rarely have a good foundation.  Machines are for lazy people and alot of people especially really young people are lazy.  It's hard to get underneath a barbell and squat as opposed to leg extensions and leg curls.  Of course I do believe there is a place for machines, only to mix it up and isolate muscle groups more.  However the basis of a good weight training programme should have mostly free weights and compound exercises.  As a personal trainer, I give people programmes with mostly free weights and compound excercises.  Why piss fart around on machines only....that isn't going to get the results or any kind of foundation. 
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: BILL ANVIL on September 18, 2011, 09:07:39 PM
bullshit...you can build your foundation with machine training. you can use anything as long as you put tension on the muscle.

the point is that you lift for a few years and create a natural foundation before you become a drug pig

Nah dude, machines dont build the same kind of huge solid looking mass you get from years of free weights olympic and powerlifting movements. Different strenuous activities build different looking muscle, and bodybuilders today all look the same just because they are all lazy asses that do the same machines and piss poor cable movements and not to mention they're all on the same gear.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: chaos on September 18, 2011, 09:10:10 PM
H0W EARLY DID PHIL START AND H0W MANY INSULIN IUS IS HE TAKING?
Assbruise........still clackin away with no "o" on the keyboard huh?
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: kiwiol on September 18, 2011, 09:57:57 PM
NO! ,, what kind of pupil are you??

Um, I'm not one of your pupils, never been nor wish to be, sorry mate.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: slaveboy1980 on September 19, 2011, 06:07:58 AM
I don't believe machines build foundation.  Look around at people who mainly do machines over free weights...they rarely have a good foundation.  Machines are for lazy people and alot of people especially really young people are lazy.  It's hard to get underneath a barbell and squat as opposed to leg extensions and leg curls.  Of course I do believe there is a place for machines, only to mix it up and isolate muscle groups more.  However the basis of a good weight training programme should have mostly free weights and compound exercises.  As a personal trainer, I give people programmes with mostly free weights and compound excercises.  Why piss fart around on machines only....that isn't going to get the results or any kind of foundation. 

I didn't say that anyone should limit themselves to machines. The point is that the muscle can sense tension, and you can achieve that without using free weights.

You don't have to squat, bench press or deadlift to create a foundation. That is just macho nonsense.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: goomba420 on September 19, 2011, 06:09:10 AM
H0W EARLY DID PHIL START AND H0W MANY INSULIN IUS IS HE TAKING?
The following are the exact dosages of an offseason blast of a current top pro. Hope this puts in perspective the BS pro cycles that get posted every now and then.

Weeks 1-12
--------------
100mg injectable dbol ed (first 8 weeks)
100mg TNE ed
500mg test cyp eod
600mg equipoise eod
200mg test prop ed
200mg NPP ed
25iu humalog before meals and before training
20iu gh injected iv immediately post workout 3x per week, 10iu gh injected IM 2x per week (other 2 training days), 10iu split dose into 5am 5 mid day injected subq on off days

Weeks 13-24
-----------------
100mg TNE ed
750mg test cyp eod
600mg equipoise eod
300mg test prop ed
200mg tren ace ed
25iu humalog before meals, 35iu before training
30iu gh injected iv post workout on all training days, 15iu subq on off days split dose 5am/5 mid day/5 evening

Weeks 25-34
-----------
200mg injectable anadrol ed
150mg TNE ed
1,000mg test cyp eod
600mg equipoise eod
400mg test prop ed
25iu humalog before meals, 40iu before training
35iu injected iv everyday in one shot
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: MikMaq on September 19, 2011, 06:14:28 AM
I didn't say that anyone should limit themselves to machines. The point is that the muscle can sense tension, and you can achieve that without using free weights.

You don't have to squat, bench press or deadlift to create a foundation. That is just macho nonsense.
Agreed I fucked up my shoulder and for me machines are a necessity if I wanna keep going to the gym. The stigma against them is total macho bullshit. Granted only using machines or only doing a limited set of motions is bad for muscle growth. But just because your using weight it don't mean your not limiting yourself.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: Palpatine Q on September 19, 2011, 06:18:09 AM
Machines vs free weights is such a dumbass concept.

your muscles know one thing...contract under a load...they can't "tell" if the weight is round on a bar, or square on a cable....The shit people believe amazes me.

PS.....Dorian favored machines  ;)
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: Dr Dutch on September 19, 2011, 06:21:40 AM
Machines vs free weights is such a dumbass concept.

your muscles know one thing...contract under a load...they can't "tell" if the weight is round on a bar, or square on a cable....The shit people believe amazes me.

PS.....Dorian favored machines  ;)

When he was big already...
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: Tito24 on September 19, 2011, 06:22:25 AM
(http://p1.xhamster.com/000/009/867/396_1000.jpg)
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: BILL ANVIL on September 19, 2011, 06:22:47 AM
Machines vs free weights is such a dumbass concept.

your muscles know one thing...contract under a load...they can't "tell" if the weight is round on a bar, or square on a cable....The shit people believe amazes me.

PS.....Dorian favored machines  ;)

Dorian favored machines later in his career AFTER he built his base with freeweights.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: booty on September 19, 2011, 06:24:09 AM
Dorian favored machines later in his career AFTER he built his base with freeweights.
Exactly!
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: slaveboy1980 on September 19, 2011, 06:24:16 AM
Machines vs free weights is such a dumbass concept.

your muscles know one thing...contract under a load...they can't "tell" if the weight is round on a bar, or square on a cable....The shit people believe amazes me.

PS.....Dorian favored machines  ;)

Yup. For example squats can be an excellent exercises for some people...for others it sucks (for various reasons) and a leg press will be a much better choice. Etc etc.

The muscles will grow if you subject them to progressive tension overload and that can be achieved using a machine just as it can be achieved with free weights.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: Palpatine Q on September 19, 2011, 06:25:02 AM
When he was big already...

He got big from taking steroids, not because the weights he lifted were round instead of square
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: booty on September 19, 2011, 06:28:04 AM
He got big from taking steroids, not because the weights he lifted were round instead of square
You do realise that machines do some of the work for you? 
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: Palpatine Q on September 19, 2011, 06:31:31 AM
You do realise that machines do some of the work for you? 

LOL.....really. hows that?

So If I train my arms to failure with a barbell,they worked harder than if i train my arms to failure with a machine ??

HAHAHAAHAAHAAAAAAAAAA.


Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on September 19, 2011, 06:32:24 AM
yes,,and philsulina is virgin muscle that is MAXED!,, this is big problem for bodybuilding,, it became ONLY DRUG AND DRUG RESPONSE as of yesterday,,in other words,, before you even go in a gymnasium ...make sure you got your source and he is good source and legit and have good products....because with out that source you will be N O T H I N G

gh15 approved


i was thinking about the issue today and like what i said before ^^^^^^ seems true, but i was trying to figure out the physiological process


then i remembered something like steroids=>mostly myofibrillar hypertrophy and GH=>mostly something else (sarcoplasmic?) supposedly GH doesn't increase strength like steroids so that would make sense

and insulina => intramuscular fat


GH + insulina on a physique that's not roided and strength trained to the max => that philsulina BLOOFY look?


how far off am i with this theory ? lol
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: slaveboy1980 on September 19, 2011, 06:34:11 AM
You do realise that machines do some of the work for you? 

What are you talking about? Did you read any of the above posts?

Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: Tito24 on September 19, 2011, 06:35:25 AM
(http://p1-1.xhamster.com/000/009/867/353_1000.jpg)

machine over load on her face.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: booty on September 19, 2011, 06:36:37 AM
LOL.....really. hows that?

So If I train my arms to failure with a barbell,they worked harder than if i train my arms to failure with a machine ??

HAHAHAAHAAHAAAAAAAAAA.



Yes a machine keeps the movement in a controlled manner, where as curling with a barbell requires alot more effort.  You use your stabilizing muscles as well during free weights.  Barbell curls are a compound exercise also.  
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on September 19, 2011, 06:36:52 AM
the machines versus free weights is totally irrelevant


it's all about the myofibrilar density of the physique which is only achieved through intense strenth training for years on anabolic steroids

philsulina's muscle is mostly sarcoplasm and intramuscular fat and overall bloofyness


lol



not sure just wild assumptions  ;D
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: slaveboy1980 on September 19, 2011, 06:37:01 AM
If i leg press 500lbs x 12 reps  and work up to 800 for 12 (with good technique)...don't you think that the muscle will grow? (assuming you eat enough etc).
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: booty on September 19, 2011, 06:38:34 AM
What are you talking about? Did you read any of the above posts?


Of course I did. 
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on September 19, 2011, 06:38:56 AM
If i leg press 500lbs x 12 reps  and work up to 800 for 12 (with good technique)...don't you think that the muscle will grow? (assuming you eat enough etc).


resistance is resistance, using machines will not affect the quality of the muscle. it will affect the efficiency of the central nervous system which is irrelevant to bodybuilders and only an issue in (strength) sports
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: slaveboy1980 on September 19, 2011, 06:39:41 AM
Yes a machine keeps the movement in a controlled manner, where as curling with a barbell requires alot more effort.  You use your stabilizing muscles as well during free weights.  Barbell curls are a compound exercise also.  

utter nonsense
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on September 19, 2011, 06:40:44 AM
lol @ barbell curls are a compound exercise, well i noticed this is true far too often  ;D ;D
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: slaveboy1980 on September 19, 2011, 06:41:46 AM

resistance is resistance, using machines will not affect the quality of the muscle. it will affect the efficiency of the central nervous system which is irrelevant to bodybuilders and only an issue in (strength) sports

you don't have to explain it to me. I know. And the whole stabilizing muscle thing is crap. It may have some validity for sport specific training and also remember that no one says you have to limit yourself to all machine training.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: Palpatine Q on September 19, 2011, 06:43:15 AM
Yes a machine keeps the movement in a controlled manner, where as curling with a barbell requires alot more effort.  You use your stabilizing muscles as well during free weights.  Barbell curls are a compound exercise also.  

another term the "geniuses" throw around...Stabilizing muscles.  if i'm training my triceps...I really don't give a fuck if my front delts are recruited....because...I'm training triceps  ;)
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: suckmymuscle on September 19, 2011, 06:43:40 AM
the machines versus free weights is totally irrelevant


it's all about the myofibrilar density of the physique which is only achieved through intense strenth training for years on anabolic steroids

philsulina's muscle is mostly sarcoplasm and intramuscular fat and overall bloofyness


lol



not sure just wild assumptions  ;D

  There are so many wrong statements in this post that I don't even know where to start correcting them...

SUCKMYMUSCLE
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: slaveboy1980 on September 19, 2011, 06:45:07 AM
Of course I did. 

Then you don't understand what fundamentally causes muscle growth. If you did, you would understand that it doesn't matter if you use machines or free weights. The important thing is to use exercises that suit you and that allow you to target the muscles you wanna train + progressive tension overload. (and enough protein and overall calories of course). Stabilizing muscles have nothing to do with it.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: Tito24 on September 19, 2011, 06:45:42 AM
(http://p1-1.xhamster.com/000/009/831/299_1000.jpg)
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on September 19, 2011, 06:47:35 AM
you don't have to explain it to me. I know. And the whole stabilizing muscle thing is crap. It may have some validity for sport specific training and also remember that no one says you have to limit yourself to all machine training.


people think "stabilizing" "stabilizers" etc are magic words but don't realize it's just some isometric contractions to hold a certain position


when doing barbell curls with very strict form you would tense up a lot of muscles to STABILIZE the position of the shoulder and elbow joint but that won't add some magic effect to your bicep stimulation


lololol


anyway if you want to be strong at free weights do free weights
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on September 19, 2011, 06:48:48 AM
 There are so many wrong statements in this post that I don't even know where to start correcting them...

SUCKMYMUSCLE

well i did say it were wild assumptions i dont really know any of this broscience
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: Palpatine Q on September 19, 2011, 06:53:11 AM
Then you don't understand what fundamentally causes muscle growth. If you did, you would understand that it doesn't matter if you  use machines or free weights. The important thing is to use exercises that suit you and that allow you to target the muscles you wanna train + progressive tension overload. (and enough protein and overall calories of course). Stabilizing muscles have nothing to do with it.

it's obvious she believes the muscle comics, I bet she thinks that the nonsense blurb on the cover is true...and that you really can "Explode your your arms to new levels of freakiness!!!!!" with this new "revolutionary" arm routine  ::) :D ::)
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: slaveboy1980 on September 19, 2011, 06:59:49 AM
Another thing i found funny with this macho attitude is that why would anyone use an exercise that doesn't work for someone. Let's say you have very long legs and bad proportions for squats...and all they do is make your ass bigger and lower back hurt...why would you squat if your only goal is to get bigger quads? Find a better tool..focus on leg presses and finish off with leg extensions.

Or you have a 40 year old lady with zero training experience....you don't start her of with squats you put her in the leg press because its much easier to teach and will actually allow her to train her quads from day 1. You may add squats later..or you may not. Anyone who has actually trained people would understand this.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on September 19, 2011, 07:01:18 AM
Another thing i found funny with this macho attitude is that why would anyone use an exercise that doesn't work for someone. Let's say you have very long legs and bad proportions for squats...and all they do is make your ass bigger and lower back hurt...why would you squat if your only goal is to get bigger quads? Find a better tool..focus on leg presses and finish off with leg extensions.

Or you have a 40 year old lady with zero training experience....you don't start her of with squats you put her in the leg press because its much easier to teach and will actually allow her to train her quads from day 1. You may add squats later..or you may not. Anyone who has actually trained people would understand this.


it's all part of the cult of bodybuilding
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: Dr Dutch on September 19, 2011, 07:51:13 AM
He got big from taking steroids, not because the weights he lifted were round instead of square
Ok, you're right..
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: wild willie on September 19, 2011, 07:53:08 AM
So, the muscle you can gain as a natural?  Which as we all know, is not much?

So why is this always mentioned?  What's the big deal?
bro.....you can gain plenty of muscle without the sauce.....but you have to have a better mind frame than that.
Title: The truth about foundation this goes for you GH15
Post by: the trainer on September 19, 2011, 11:28:18 AM
 I have trained many clients over the years, and I have seen clients who after only 6 months of training look way better than guys who have being training for 4 years. So if this client wants to be a pro. I am not going to have him train natural for 5 years then do ass for another 5 years then start blowing up on insulin and gh for 5 more years to be a pro that is 15 years are you insane.
 This would only make sense if he was a teenager, But if this was a 25 year old guy he does not have that amount of time. So after 2 years of natural training he goes on ass for a few years, then he starts to add in the gh and insulin, that is how it is when when time is not your friend.
 By the way all the time that you spent bashing Phil this year he has the last laugh so eat your heart out.
Title: Re: The truth about foundation this goes for you GH15
Post by: purenaturalstrength on September 19, 2011, 11:29:24 AM
this is why guys who train from child like branch warren look the best
Title: Re: The truth about foundation this goes for you GH15
Post by: Schmoff on September 19, 2011, 11:30:47 AM
hi, phisulin

 :D
Title: Re: The truth about foundation this goes for you GH15
Post by: Tito24 on September 19, 2011, 11:30:51 AM
you must be really proud of yourself?
Title: Re: The truth about foundation this goes for you GH15
Post by: purenaturalstrength on September 19, 2011, 11:36:14 AM
I have trained many clients over the years, and I have seen clients who after only 6 months of training look way better than guys who have being training for 4 years. So if this client wants to be a pro. I am not going to have him train natural for 5 years then do ass for another 5 years then start blowing up on insulin and gh for 5 more years to be a pro that is 15 years are you insane.
 This would only make sense if he was a teenager, But if this was a 25 year old guy he does not have that amount of time. So after 2 years of natural training he goes on ass for a few years, then he starts to add in the gh and insulin, that is how it is when when time is not your friend.
 By the way all the time that you spent bashing Phil this year he has the last laugh so eat your heart out.
well i have trained a lot of gymnasts over the years and they say you need to start with the basics so rolls, tumbles, carwheels


but that would take 10 years to work up to the high level moves and when a girl walks in here and she's 25 time is not on our side, so i just let her snort some coke and hype her up to sprint at the springboard, back handspring onto the horse, 1.5 flip with 2.5 twists

i can make a zero into a hero in a few short years using this time sparing approach
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: Tito24 on September 19, 2011, 11:38:58 AM
(http://p1.xhamster.com/000/009/830/582_1000.jpg)

more foundation examples puppils
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: Meso_z on September 19, 2011, 11:42:17 AM
This is "foundation" in my book.

(http://away.gr/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/money_stack.jpg)
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: BILL ANVIL on September 19, 2011, 01:21:36 PM
He got big from taking steroids, not because the weights he lifted were round instead of square

Bullshit
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: BILL ANVIL on September 19, 2011, 01:29:34 PM
He could quite possibly gain the weight he did by mega dosing and only doing machines ect but his physique would not of looked the way it did by doing so. Would of been more similar to Phil Heaths 'build' than a top tier Olympian. A body built on freeweights compared to one built on machines is gonna look totally different, bodybuilders and powerlifters have been proving this for years and years.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: the trainer on September 19, 2011, 04:56:26 PM
ok ,,

THIS IS IMPORTANT I WROTE IN BIBLE THIS FEW TIMES ,,

foundation is

the time you had in the gymnasium TRAINING with ANABOLIC STEROIDS IN YOUR BLOOD.... IT IS NOT THE ACTUAL TRAINNIG NATURAL ,, TRAINING NATURAL IS PART OF HAVING FOUNDATION ...BUT THE FOUNDATION THAT I TALK ABOUT IS TRAINING + ANABOLIC STEROIDS! ....

WHEN I SAY SOMEONE DOESNT HAVE FOUNDATION IT MEAN THEY JUMPED TOOOOOOOOOOOO FAST ON THE HGH AND INSULINA AND WENT INTO MEGADOSE LAND BEFOREEEE DEVELOPING ENOUGH MUSCLE DENSITY.... DENNNNNNNNNNNNNSITY ....AND ENOUGH MUSCULAR DEVELOPMENT IN GENERAL....AGAIN! IT IS NOT THE DIAMETER OF MUSCLE IT IS THE ACTUAL DEVELOPMENT OF THE MUSCLE THAT PROJECT STRENGTH AND CREATE A BASE ON WHICH ...YES I JUST SAID ON WHICH...ON WHICH YOU CAN BUILD THE RON COLMANS AND THE DORIAN YATES...

PHILSULINA HAD HAPPY DAY YESTERDAY HE IS YOUR BODYBUILD CHAMP MR O BUT HE LACK THE FOUNDATION ,, IM NOT A MEAN PERSON I DONT HATE HIM ,, HE KNOWS I DONT HATE HIM ...I SAID HE WOULD WIN ,, LONG BEFORE HE WON I SAID HE WOULD WIN ,, BUT! HE JUST DOESNT HAVE THE FOUNDATION MY FRIENDS,, SORRY

gh15 approved

Your theory is a bunch of garbage, first a guy with great genes could train for a year and look better than a guy with shitty genes who has being training for 5 years. So this guy enters a local show after  2 years of training win the show, then jumps on the ass to get to the next level, after a few years on the ass he is at national level looking to get his pro card now all his competitors are on gh and insulin. so he has to get on gh and insulin to level the playing field. Guy then wins his pro card so he has to up the dosage to complete with the pros.
 If anybody follows your advice they would train for to 20 to get their pro card and another 5 years to win a competition you out of touch with what it takes to be a bodybuilder today and you are still living in the 90s. Its best if you go to a retirement home sit in a chair and remember the good old days.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: chaos on September 19, 2011, 05:04:23 PM
Chico24 doing some good work in this thread.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: gh15 on September 19, 2011, 09:55:28 PM
Your theory is a bunch of garbage, first a guy with great genes could train for a year and look better than a guy with shitty genes who has being training for 5 years. So this guy enters a local show after  2 years of training win the show, then jumps on the ass to get to the next level, after a few years on the ass he is at national level looking to get his pro card now all his competitors are on gh and insulin. so he has to get on gh and insulin to level the playing field. Guy then wins his pro card so he has to up the dosage to complete with the pros.
 If anybody follows your advice they would train for to 20 to get their pro card and another 5 years to win a competition you out of touch with what it takes to be a bodybuilder today and you are still living in the 90s. Its best if you go to a retirement home sit in a chair and remember the good old days.

my theory is nto a therory it is fact,, and if you knew how to read...and yes you can read gh15 quite well but for some reason you cant understand what you read....if you knoew how to read you would understand! that foundation is AAS + TRAINING,, no natural no nothing,, and the aas + training shoud take place and go few years first ,, philsulina did not do it ,, philsulina climbed on hgh and insulina very fast and you can see it in the blow up i dont even know what to call him,, he is just a blow up micheling man ,, he will colapse like deck of cards...problem is that rigth now he compete against shit,, jason ..old jason which fucked up should have won but fucked up...and dex which really doesnt care much anymore,, rest of them are like philsulina ...NO FOUNDATION,, denise wolfe has foundation but....they just dont like him for some reason and he doesnt look pretty and not enough americano...rest of them are mess

philsulina just won a beauty contest he is pretty boy ,,blew up p[retty but rest assue blew up is the term ! i suggest you take a look at past mr o like heny like dorian like ron ...even little zane ,,check them out to understand what FOUNDATION means

gh15 approved
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: asbrus on September 19, 2011, 10:26:54 PM
my theory is nto a therory it is fact,, and if you knew how to read...and yes you can read gh15 quite well but for some reason you cant understand what you read....if you knoew how to read you would understand! that foundation is AAS + TRAINING,, no natural no nothing,, and the aas + training shoud take place and go few years first ,, philsulina did not do it ,, philsulina climbed on hgh and insulina very fast and you can see it in the blow up i dont even know what to call him,, he is just a blow up micheling man ,, he will colapse like deck of cards...problem is that rigth now he compete against shit,, jason ..old jason which fucked up should have won but fucked up...and dex which really doesnt care much anymore,, rest of them are like philsulina ...NO FOUNDATION,, denise wolfe has foundation but....they just dont like him for some reason and he doesnt look pretty and not enough americano...rest of them are mess

philsulina just won a beauty contest he is pretty boy ,,blew up p[retty but rest assue blew up is the term ! i suggest you take a look at past mr o like heny like dorian like ron ...even little zane ,,check them out to understand what FOUNDATION means

gh15 approved

S0 BASICALLY THE AM0UNT 0F MUSCLE TISSUE 0NE GAINS TRAINING UNDER R0IDS WHICH WILL HAVE A DIFFERENT DENSER L00K T0 THE MUSCLE AS 0PP0SED T0 MUSCLE TISSUE BUILT 0N INSULIN AND GH WHICH WILL G0 AWAY IN A M0NTH.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: gh15 on September 19, 2011, 11:37:46 PM
S0 BASICALLY THE AM0UNT 0F MUSCLE TISSUE 0NE GAINS TRAINING UNDER R0IDS WHICH WILL HAVE A DIFFERENT DENSER L00K T0 THE MUSCLE AS 0PP0SED T0 MUSCLE TISSUE BUILT 0N INSULIN AND GH WHICH WILL G0 AWAY IN A M0NTH.

YES,, philsulina within 60 days with no hgh and insulina shrink to 190lb! read this again ! if try to keep same bodyfat and condition he will shrink down to 190lb ,, he will be unrecognizable ,, you will see him in walmart americana and laugh ,, with shirt on yhou will not thikn he even touch weight,,

THIS HAS BEEN PROVEN SO MANY TIMES,, AND LIKE A CULT OF HOMOS YOU GOT ALWAYS THE VINCES OF ALL KINDS GOING AROUND WITH ALL THE EXMAPLES I SHOW DURING THE YEARS AND MAKE IT SOMETHING ELSE...SOMETHING I NEVER EVEN SUGGESTED!,,I PUT HERE EXAMPLES OF WHAT HAPPEN TO BODY WITH NO INSULINA AND HGH,, I SHOWED HERE PICTURES OF FELLAS WITH! FOUNDATION AND WHAT HAPPEND TO THEM

WITH OUT HGH AND INSULINA THE PROFESIONAL LOSE SIZE SUPER SUPER FAST,, SIZE HE NEVER HAD BECAUSE THE 3 DIMENTIONAL BLOW FROM INSULINA AND GH...IS NOT LEGIT MUSCLE,, IT IS BLOWN UP TISSUE,, IT IS ADDED ,, LIKE WHEN YOU ADD A PART TO A CAR EXTRA...THAT MAKE THE CAR FASTER....

YOU ARE ACTUALY CAPABLE OF FOLLOWING THE FALL OF A BODYBUILDER STARTING WEEK 1 WITH NO HGH AND INSULINA ,,,WEEK 1!  IT IS NOT AS EASY TO SEE BUT IN THE PICTURES YOU WILL SEE LESS SEPERATION THEN ADDED WATER AND FAT...THEN SHRINKAGE IN LEAN MUSCLE NOT IN PARTICULAR DIAMAETERT OF MUSCLE BUT OVER ALL,, YOU BECOME LESS LEAN ...AND SMALLER WHILE INCREASING EITHER THE WATER WEIGHT OR FAT WEIGHT OR BOTH! DEPENDING ON THE BODYBUILDER AND HOW MUCH AAS HE IS STILL ON,,

i swear fellas here have no concept to what bodybuild is,, they dont know a from z,, im amazed with the balonie i see ,, actualy saying i have heard fella saying philsulina is a good A GOOD mr o !,, this is a joke! if you wanted the average black fella with good muscle bellies and amazing respond to hormones as mr o ...then you got it ,, but to say he work hard? WHAT ARE YOU FUCKING INSANE? work  hard? have you ever seen the fella train ? work hard??

profesional bodybuilders have no time to work hard,, not now days,, its digestion of DRUGS,, of drugs! and respond to them ,, if you were lucky enough to build foundation you wil be the beter bodybuild,, the problam is this generation has no foundation ,, so ofcourse who will you give o to? to the best of the worst,, to the one who can be the best pretty boy with inflated insulina and hgh mega dose muscle,,

half of the fellas who talk here have no idea about bodybuilding,, it is sad,, many of them have no idea abotu how major part drugs play in al levels of bodybuilding and how important it is to have foundation inorder to create something that is worth admiration,,

it comes to a very simple analogy,,again music

remember britney whore spears? remember what i told you about her? 1996...when she came up 1997 thats whee your generation started free fall,, remember? remember the monica and clinton? remember the world then? this is where free fall started,, this is where philsulina grew in ....this is the times....he is product of insinx,, of jenny mcarthy,, of carmen electric,, he is a product of those ....it comes with the teritory,, he can play piano from morning to night,, it is part of where he is from ,, the generation!,, and the way he got to be me o is exactly the way britney whore spears got to be a pop star....

generation N O T H I N G N E S S

and i assure you that one day the truth wil come of what is inside philsulina arms....which will be exactly what inside jason cutler arms and all the other ifbb and top npc ,, you will realize it again when its out and you can see it ...like with jason ,,


peptides RUINED AND DESTROYED BODYBUILDING,, it went from perfection called lee hainey ...to this nonesense of inflated nothing called philsulina heath,,
if you like it then you have it ,,but rest assure i garentee you ..you will nevber see any advanced phil heath with veins poping crazy ron colman style ,, or with peaks and freaky shape muscle seperation that look like rock but with meteor edges,, it will neve be colman like freakiness,, it will never be dorian like density and driness,, it will never be hainey like foundation and it will never be like frank zane perfection ,, it also wont be like arnold like powerful,, and it wont be even jason like broadness and thickness

it will always be 50cents like blow up ,, because he is exactly what 50 cents like physiqe is...only BLOWN UP WITH INSULINA AND GH TO A MEGA DOSING LEVEL,, this is a black physiqe with no foundation ,, athletic...from playing sports that BLEW THE FUCK UP ON INSULIN AAND HGH ,, IT IS CHEMICAL EXPERIEMENT THAT WENT WELL...FOR HOW LONG? NOT TOO LONG,, WHY? BECAUSE THE CHEMICAL EXPERIEMENT WASNT DONE ON A FREAK OF NATURE LIKE RON COLMAN WHICH CAN LAST...IT WAS DONE ON FELLA FROM GENERATION NOTHINGNESS THAT WANTED TO BR MR O...THAT WANTED TO BE GOOD IN SOME SPORT... AND DECIDED BODYBUILD WILL BE IT,, HE RESPONDED VERY WELL TO HGH AND INSULINA AND YOU GOT THE FINAL PRODUCT,,

HE LOOKK EXACTLY LIKE A GOOD SUPPLEMENT DANTA AND SON PRODUCT,,,NICE SHINEY LABEL VERY MARVELOUS,, CELL TECK LABEL...THIS IS THE OUTSIDE,, BUT THE INSIDE....NOT SO MUCH,,

time will tell ,, best golf player in the world...tiger woods...yuo see how good he is with out gh..and with little pressure,, you see how good this zero is,, best golf player in the world....lol GENETATION NOTHINGNESS!,,

best players of generation nothingness

gh15 approved
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: cephissus on September 20, 2011, 12:12:40 AM
lol 50 cent

i remember seeing 50 cent in those videos and wondering why his abs looked so weird.  why he looked like he was coated in rubber or something.  despite his massive size, it unnerved me even then, as a little kid who couldn't even imagine he might be on steroids.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: goomba420 on September 20, 2011, 05:44:17 AM
I guess Dennis needed to vent after being forced to call Phil best mr o ever
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: Jaime on September 20, 2011, 07:03:10 AM
Groink is bang on in this thread. Sentient muscles lololol

Also there is no such thing as a foundation differential between roids and gh/slin. Someone Gh15 references a lot Kevin Levrone proved this. He mainly built his physique on AS in the early years and lifted very heavy, as soon as he went off he looked like he didnt train. There was no ripped to shreds steel like 180lb physique hiding underneath the drugs.

Foundation is having good genetics and building a solid natural base, no fucking argument.

GH is semi retarded on this issue. If any current pro stops megadosing they will all shrink just as quickly as Phil.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: BILL ANVIL on September 20, 2011, 07:11:34 AM
Groink is bang on in this thread. Sentient muscles lololol

Also there is no such thing as a foundation differential between roids and gh/slin. Someone Gh15 references a lot Kevin Levrone proved this. He mainly built his physique on AS in the early years and lifted very heavy, as soon as he went off he looked like he didnt train. There was no ripped to shreds steel like 180lb physique hiding underneath the drugs.

Foundation is having good genetics and building a solid natural base, no fucking argument.

GH is semi retarded on this issue. If any current pro stops megadosing they will all shrink just as quickly as Phil.

Then why did alot of the oldschool guys who loved training and had powerlifting bases hold some of their mass and barrel chests long after they retired? Not everyone shrinks down to fuck all when they retire.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: Jaime on September 20, 2011, 07:14:33 AM
Then why did alot of the oldschool guys who loved training and had powerlifting bases hold some of their mass and barrel chests long after they retired? Not everyone shrinks down to fuck all when they retire.


Genetics and or still using.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: the trainer on September 20, 2011, 07:32:22 AM
my theory is nto a therory it is fact,, and if you knew how to read...and yes you can read gh15 quite well but for some reason you cant understand what you read....if you knoew how to read you would understand! that foundation is AAS + TRAINING,, no natural no nothing,, and the aas + training shoud take place and go few years first ,, philsulina did not do it ,, philsulina climbed on hgh and insulina very fast and you can see it in the blow up i dont even know what to call him,, he is just a blow up micheling man ,, he will colapse like deck of cards...problem is that rigth now he compete against shit,, jason ..old jason which fucked up should have won but fucked up...and dex which really doesnt care much anymore,, rest of them are like philsulina ...NO FOUNDATION,, denise wolfe has foundation but....they just dont like him for some reason and he doesnt look pretty and not enough americano...rest of them are mess

philsulina just won a beauty contest he is pretty boy ,,blew up p[retty but rest assue blew up is the term ! i suggest you take a look at past mr o like heny like dorian like ron ...even little zane ,,check them out to understand what FOUNDATION means

gh15 approved

You are the one that is missing the point, do you want a bodybuilding to only take ass, while his competitors are taking gh and insulin and beating him in competition and getting sponsors and he is getting no where. pro bodybuilding is a job and a big investment, so you have to blow up as fast as possible make some money win some competition and get off those drugs so you do not lose your health.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: BILL ANVIL on September 20, 2011, 07:23:41 PM

Genetics and or still using.

Bullshit, I know older dudes that used to be avid weightlifters that still have big arms and barrel chests combined with old man strength and they all have the same thing in common, they used freeweights all there lives. And all these juiceheads I see who only use machines and immediately shrink right down to fuck all as soon as they toss the needle, there's so many I cant even count its ridiculous.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on September 20, 2011, 08:17:55 PM
Bullshit, I know older dudes that used to be avid weightlifters that still have big arms and barrel chests combined with old man strength and they all have the same thing in common, they used freeweights all there lives. And all these juiceheads I see who only use machines and immediately shrink right down to fuck all as soon as they toss the needle, there's so many I cant even count its ridiculous.

another mad man who thinks free weights are magical
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: BILL ANVIL on September 20, 2011, 08:22:12 PM
another mad man who thinks free weights are magical

Dude, they build a far more superior physique than machines ever could.  
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on September 20, 2011, 08:23:29 PM
Dude, they build a far more superior physique than machines ever could.  
no they don't all they are superior for is building a blocky midsection
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: booty on September 20, 2011, 08:23:55 PM
Dude, they build a far more superior physique than machines ever could.  
Fully agree. 
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: gh15 on September 20, 2011, 08:26:56 PM
You are the one that is missing the point, do you want a bodybuilding to only take ass, while his competitors are taking gh and insulin and beating him in competition and getting sponsors and he is getting no where. pro bodybuilding is a job and a big investment, so you have to blow up as fast as possible make some money win some competition and get off those drugs so you do not lose your health.

hey,, i didnt say you dont ned to do insulina and gh ,, i keep rpeating myself like a damn parrot ,, yes YOU HAVE TO DO THEM NOW DAY ,, this is why im disgusted with the all process, the insulina ruin bodybuilding,, ofcourse you have to do mega dose gh and insulina otherwize you wont get no where...duh??

gh15 approved
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: BILL ANVIL on September 20, 2011, 08:27:23 PM
no they don't all they are superior for is building a blocky midsection

How can you attest to that? You can't. Thats bullshit.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: Palpatine Q on September 20, 2011, 08:40:10 PM
Fully agree. 

Shut the fuck up you stupid whore

It's dogmatic nonsense

weight is weight
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: Palpatine Q on September 20, 2011, 08:42:23 PM
How can you attest to that? You can't. Thats bullshit.

any more than you can attest that they build superior physiques

It's an old, tired belief.....those of us who are free thinkers and don't ascribe to things because it's the "thing to do" see things differently
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: BILL ANVIL on September 20, 2011, 09:22:39 PM
any more than you can attest that they build superior physiques

It's an old, tired belief.....those of us who are free thinkers and don't ascribe to things because it's the "thing to do" see things differently

I can attest to it from living proof, and not just me. You train the way you want, but think of what you could have been if only you had just included basic power training movements into your routine all these years  ;)
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: booty on September 20, 2011, 09:24:43 PM
Shut the fuck up you stupid whore

It's dogmatic nonsense

weight is weight
No fuckface.  Go back to your machine only training, you lazy ass. 
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: flinstones1 on September 21, 2011, 02:06:50 AM
No fuckface.  Go back to your machine only training, you lazy ass.  

Booty I dont know you so Im not trying to start a comfronation with you, but If muscle is a result of time under tension, caloric surplus, and hormones  I really cant see how training with machines builds muscle any slower, the only thing free weights work is stabalizing muscles and improove coordination to a larger degree which migh be beneficial to a football player but bodybuilders are not going to be running any 40 yard dashes any time soon. ;)  Not to be an asskisser backpeddlar to Groink Im just using him as an example because he mentioned he uses machines mostly, but  his muscle density rivals spike's and Spike is the real deal.  True it could be Groinks result of years of heavy training to get that density on less drugs than Spike, but how much more denser would he or SPike  be if they trained with free weights exclusively?  Spike uses machines almost exclusively as well. No One, you saw his pic thick  lean dense muscle, pretty sure he hinted he used machines in a recent post but Ill have to ask him.

Now lets look at  tbombz who benches over 400 pounds I believe and curls 135 for sets of 10 (strict) while he is a very solid dude I am sure he would admit there are some older guys in this thread who have much more density and harder muscle than him,  who use machines exclusively.  Not to say these people  are not older than him and or have more drug use under their belt, but is  goes to show none of this shit really matters, like gh15 said its all chemical ;) I think if training matters at all, TIME is what matters, not how. The question is when it comes to a young aspiring bodybuilder trying to get massive, is this the same concept with drugs or is it completely opposite? Tbombz would say yes, but Im sure Phil Heath would say no :D Disgusted or van your thoughts?  Tbombz said I can get to pro size on one compound :) (by the way  I dont mean any disrespect to tbombz asking him for advice and posting it openly Im not trying to be a bitch, I just think some of his beliefs and views have the potential  to start some good arguments discussions)
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: io856 on September 21, 2011, 02:12:51 AM
Look at the backs onstage at this Olympia.. in general theres a lack of back thickness particularly in the traps.

Then look at how they are training back these days. Mostly machines.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: cephissus on September 21, 2011, 02:42:54 AM
When I first saw phil I thought he looked like a bloofy michelin man.  What I realized recently, however, is I've only ever really seen phil on stage or off season.  There are different types of bodybuilders, and I think phil is in the "when he goes off-season, he goes WAY off-season" camp, much like levrone was said to be.

The comparisons to levrone initially shocked me.  Kevin looks absolutely sick in countless pictures... but then I noticed something... on stage he didn't really appear that much different from heath.  I've been looking at a lot of videos of him lately and honestly I don't see the big difference: striations, detail, "dryness" or "graininess," skin, etc. They don't look much different.

Now, in training videos or edited magazine photos, kevin looks amazing.  But I haven't really seen any training / magazine shots of phil.  And when I do, he always seems to be off-season or, well, clearly not near contest condition.  On the other hand, kevin always looks like he's in contest condition on videos.  Maybe this is because, after all this time, only the good pictures and videos of kevin remain?  All the off-season bloofiness has disappeared?  Maybe in ten or fifteen years all that will remain of phil is the magazine shots and contest videos, and all the bloofy random off-season crap will have disappeared?

Now, I'm not saying anything about phil's narrowness, or ridiculous arms, or any of that, but when it comes to muscle quality, and the assertions that he has a different look because he "has no foundation" (ie used lots of gh/slin in addition to aas very early on -- glad we could clear up that term), I can't see it.  He doesn't look much different from kevin or shawn ray to me with regard to muscle quality, detail, skin, "density," etc.  In fact, he really doesn't look all that much different from anyone except for a couple (Dexter Jackson, Munzer, Dorian) who are particularly noted for their conditioning.

While I can appreciate the clarification of "foundation," I can't really see much difference in a muscle's appearance between someone who allegedly jumped on slin/gh early and someone who didn't.

Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: w8m8 on September 21, 2011, 04:06:01 AM
No fuckface.  Go back to your machine only training, you lazy ass. 

LOL ... fuckface ? lazy ass ?


How about YOU post up some valid studies and proof of what you claim ?

You should be able to do that with you being a "trainer" and all .... right ?

This isn't MD where you can just baste someone and get by with batting your eyelashes at the mods ... post your evidence of what you claim .. bet you can't
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: Super Natural on September 21, 2011, 04:32:46 AM
.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: Jaime on September 21, 2011, 04:44:29 AM
Bullshit, I know older dudes that used to be avid weightlifters that still have big arms and barrel chests combined with old man strength and they all have the same thing in common, they used freeweights all there lives. And all these juiceheads I see who only use machines and immediately shrink right down to fuck all as soon as they toss the needle, there's so many I cant even count its ridiculous.



Err i said foundation is genetics and natural training in my post genius. Muscles arent "aware", they are not fucking sentient, you lift heavy shit up they get stronger and bigger. Doing compound movements and free weight exercises just recruits lots of muscle groups that you aren't specifically trying to hit.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: RustyTrenbolona on September 21, 2011, 05:03:54 AM
Quote from: booty link=topic=395404.msg5594152#msg5594152 date=
Fully agree. 

What a stupid girl. Must be a really shit trainer. Tryin to suck up to "bodybuilders" with the old freeweights argument. Dont worry slutface, there will always be a fool for u somewhere. 
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: WillGrant on September 21, 2011, 05:50:28 AM
Though I have chucked abuse at Booty I have just given in and whacked off a huge load over her pics  :o
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on September 21, 2011, 05:58:53 AM
How can you attest to that? You can't. Thats bullshit.

it's logical, say you squat for legs, ok ok that works but the obliques are gonna get huge from keeping the torso rigid under the barbell, widening the waist and contributing to the blocky squatter look all weightlifters have


look at these two high level weightlifters, one tiny, one pretty big, both have that brick looking torso


this is caused by squats


fact

(http://users.telenet.be/tom.goegebuer/images/Santa%20Domingo06/SD%20Dolega&me.jpg)
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: BILL ANVIL on September 21, 2011, 06:17:30 AM
it's logical, say you squat for legs, ok ok that works but the obliques are gonna get huge from keeping the torso rigid under the barbell, widening the waist and contributing to the blocky squatter look all weightlifters have


look at these two high level weightlifters, one tiny, one pretty big, both have that brick looking torso


this is caused by squats


fact

(http://users.telenet.be/tom.goegebuer/images/Santa%20Domingo06/SD%20Dolega&me.jpg)


That TOTALLY depends on genetics and body type. I have a small waist and could probably squat for the rest of my life without worrying about having a waist as wide as my shoulder. Freeweights in every movements gives you that blocky solid look ie delts back and chest, which is why they are needed to get the best gains. Machine users just dont know what they're missing.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on September 21, 2011, 06:19:16 AM

That TOTALLY depends on genetics and body type. I have a small waist and could probably squat for the rest of my life without worrying about having a waist as wide as my shoulder. Freeweights in every movements gives you that blocky solid look ie delts back and chest, which is why they are needed to get the best gains. Machine users just dont know what they're missing.

then why isn't there a single weightlifter with a small waist and wide shoulders?
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: BILL ANVIL on September 21, 2011, 06:22:44 AM
then why isn't there a single weightlifter with a small waist and wide shoulders?

Look at all the guys from the 60's, they were all bodybuilders that based their training on heavy freeweight movements and looked great. Wide waists cant be partially blamed on drug abuse, not just squats.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on September 21, 2011, 06:24:47 AM
Look at all the guys from the 60's, they were all bodybuilders that based their training on heavy freeweight movements and looked great. Wide waists cant be partially blamed on drug abuse, not just squats.

so how come the tiny natural weightlifters have wide waists as well? like the guy in the left of the pic
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: BILL ANVIL on September 21, 2011, 06:27:34 AM
so how come the tiny natural weightlifters have wide waists as well? like the guy in the left of the pic

Hus shoulders are narrow as hell, and doesnt seem to have the genes for wide shoulders so that makes his waist look even wider. Genetics my friend, and looks like a personal problem for him.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: asbrus on September 21, 2011, 06:44:44 AM
then why isn't there a single weightlifter with a small waist and wide shoulders?

BULL SHIT. THERE ARE MANY. G0 WATCH VIDS. DIMAS IS AN EXAMPLE.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on September 21, 2011, 07:43:37 AM
BULL SHIT. THERE ARE MANY. G0 WATCH VIDS. DIMAS IS AN EXAMPLE.
nope

(http://ironmind-store.com/images/PS-PDN1_f.jpg)
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: Jaime on September 21, 2011, 07:45:45 AM
Heavy squatting, deads are hugely overrated.

You end up hickening up a load of bodyparts that visually shouldnt be thick.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on September 21, 2011, 07:46:40 AM
Heavy squatting, deads are hugely overrated.

You end up hickening up a load of bodyparts that visually shouldnt be thick.


this is what i said, it's true but people refuse to accept this
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: Man of Steel on September 21, 2011, 07:46:48 AM
ok ,,

THIS IS IMPORTANT I WROTE IN BIBLE THIS FEW TIMES ,,

foundation is

the time you had in the gymnasium TRAINING with ANABOLIC STEROIDS IN YOUR BLOOD.... IT IS NOT THE ACTUAL TRAINNIG NATURAL ,, TRAINING NATURAL IS PART OF HAVING FOUNDATION ...BUT THE FOUNDATION THAT I TALK ABOUT IS TRAINING + ANABOLIC STEROIDS! ....

WHEN I SAY SOMEONE DOESNT HAVE FOUNDATION IT MEAN THEY JUMPED TOOOOOOOOOOOO FAST ON THE HGH AND INSULINA AND WENT INTO MEGADOSE LAND BEFOREEEE DEVELOPING ENOUGH MUSCLE DENSITY.... DENNNNNNNNNNNNNSITY ....AND ENOUGH MUSCULAR DEVELOPMENT IN GENERAL....AGAIN! IT IS NOT THE DIAMETER OF MUSCLE IT IS THE ACTUAL DEVELOPMENT OF THE MUSCLE THAT PROJECT STRENGTH AND CREATE A BASE ON WHICH ...YES I JUST SAID ON WHICH...ON WHICH YOU CAN BUILD THE RON COLMANS AND THE DORIAN YATES...

PHILSULINA HAD HAPPY DAY YESTERDAY HE IS YOUR BODYBUILD CHAMP MR O BUT HE LACK THE FOUNDATION ,, IM NOT A MEAN PERSON I DONT HATE HIM ,, HE KNOWS I DONT HATE HIM ...I SAID HE WOULD WIN ,, LONG BEFORE HE WON I SAID HE WOULD WIN ,, BUT! HE JUST DOESNT HAVE THE FOUNDATION MY FRIENDS,, SORRY

gh15 approved

drug addict hogwash
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: G_Thang on September 21, 2011, 07:48:49 AM
Can we get a clear definition on this term, once and for all?

his foundation lie in the holy mountain.  selah, selah.

Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: slaveboy1980 on September 21, 2011, 08:10:59 AM
No fuckface.  Go back to your machine only training, you lazy ass.  

get the fuck out of here. You ain't talking to some stupid client. and who said anything about machine only training....machines, free weights...they are tools and you need to pick the right ones for you.

groink is a lazy ass huh? he has probably been training longer than you have been alive you cum saturated sub human whore.


ohh i forgot...you're that 55 year old cum dumpster over at md right?...
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: slaveboy1980 on September 21, 2011, 08:14:29 AM
Heavy squatting, deads are hugely overrated.

You end up hickening up a load of bodyparts that visually shouldnt be thick.

they can be very good exercises but certainly not a must for a bodybuilder.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: Palpatine Q on September 21, 2011, 09:00:11 AM
I can attest to it from living proof, and not just me. You train the way you want, but think of what you could have been if only you had just included basic power training movements into your routine all these years  ;)

I use free weights plenty...and i use machines plenty....I didn't say one was better than the other...i say they are both good.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: Palpatine Q on September 21, 2011, 09:01:58 AM
No fuckface.  Go back to your machine only training, you lazy ass. 

who said i use machines only, you vapid whore ?

I have forgotten more about training than you know, you toxic twat
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: BILL ANVIL on September 21, 2011, 09:44:12 AM
Heavy squatting, deads are hugely overrated.

You end up hickening up a load of bodyparts that visually shouldnt be thick.


Bodyparts that visually shouldnt be thick? Why wouldn't you want thick powerful looking muscles even if you do have to sacrifice a little aesthetics? Not everybody wants to look like Flex Wheeler and have arms the same size as their waist and be a weakling in the gym.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: Jaime on September 21, 2011, 01:54:57 PM

Bodyparts that visually shouldnt be thick? Why wouldn't you want thick powerful looking muscles even if you do have to sacrifice a little aesthetics? Not everybody wants to look like Flex Wheeler and have arms the same size as their waist and be a weakling in the gym.


Well i have a very delicate bonestructure and i lift heavier than nearly everyone i see, i would rather stay a bit weaker at squatting and keep my tiny waist thanks. Gymnastics, judo for strength, who the fuck goes around squatting things in real life imao. Real good way to fuck your joints up though.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: flinstones1 on September 21, 2011, 03:21:39 PM

Bodyparts that visually shouldnt be thick? Why wouldn't you want thick powerful looking muscles even if you do have to sacrifice a little aesthetics? Not everybody wants to look like Flex Wheeler and have arms the same size as their waist and be a weakling in the gym.

could of sworn I saw a video of flex incline benching 315 for 10  pretty easily. He wasn't as weak as some of you are making him out to be.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on September 21, 2011, 03:30:42 PM
could of sworn I saw a video of flex incline benching 315 for 10  pretty easily. He wasn't as weak as some of you are making him out to be.

He wasn't , people take something on Getbig and run with it , Flex wasn't lazy per sa he just wasn't focused , Flex said that once he retired from bodybuilding that he would never touch another weight in his life most likely said in a precontest depleted state and people read into what they wanted

Flex came on like a lion early in his career but got distracted easily with all his success and wasn't as focused , and at times relied on his genetics but lazy I don't think that's fair

This is like 455 impressive

Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on September 21, 2011, 03:34:04 PM

Well i have a very delicate bonestructure and i lift heavier than nearly everyone i see, i would rather stay a bit weaker at squatting and keep my tiny waist thanks. Gymnastics, judo for strength, who the fuck goes around squatting things in real life imao. Real good way to fuck your joints up though.

This guy squatted and kept his small waist
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on September 21, 2011, 03:36:37 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: Hulkotron on September 21, 2011, 03:38:31 PM
.

Clearly the product of hammer strength chest press; should have done barbell bench but unfortunately it is now too late. :'(
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: WillGrant on September 21, 2011, 05:23:21 PM
This guy squatted and kept his small waist
Fuck - Lee was impressive alright  8) and yes it's genetics, if you are doomed to be wide hipped along with waist then it's about thinking what exercises stimulate the area.

(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=395404.0;attach=430692;image)
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: Palpatine Q on September 21, 2011, 05:33:25 PM
This guy squatted and kept his small waist

It's ggenetic....if you have a small hip girdle and squats stimulate your quads,,,,,squat like a mofo.

if you are thick hipped....squatting will only make it worse...so  avoid them like the plague.....unless you are a brainwashed dolt who insists on squatting. I actually prefer they do, so they never make progress and i look better  :D
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: WillGrant on September 21, 2011, 05:46:55 PM
It's ggenetic....if you have a small hip girdle and squats stimulate your quads,,,,,squat like a mofo.

if you are thick hipped....squatting will only make it worse...so  avoid them like the plague.....unless you are a brainwashed dolt who insists on squatting. I actually prefer they do, so they never make progress and i look better  :D
This
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: Parker on September 21, 2011, 06:00:32 PM

Bodyparts that visually shouldnt be thick? Why wouldn't you want thick powerful looking muscles even if you do have to sacrifice a little aesthetics? Not everybody wants to look like Sabrewulf and have arms the same size as their waist and be a weakling in the gym.
Fixed as you were talking about this guy
(http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters3/sabrewulf-end1.jpg)
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: Palpatine Q on September 21, 2011, 06:15:29 PM
This

Yup....you gotta work with what you got...and some dudes just will NEVER have the full thick quads and slim waist....most of us in fact, but don't be stupid and make your proportions worse for the sake of being "hardcore"  ::) ::)
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: asbrus on September 23, 2011, 08:16:56 AM
nope

(http://ironmind-store.com/images/PS-PDN1_f.jpg)

0H YAH THAT'S Y0UR PR00F. I SEE N0 SL0PING DELTS BUT SQUARED INSTEAD AND A SMALL WAIST. DIMAS HAS WIDE BR0AD SH0ULDERS AND S0 D0 MANY 0THER 0LYMPIC WEIGHTLIFTERS.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: dyslexic on September 23, 2011, 08:30:21 AM
You can build a good, thick, strong foundation of solid and NATURAL muscle fibers before you decide to start juicing. The question is: "How long can you hold out?"

If you don't put in a good solid 2-5 years, and you decide to start juicing right out of the pen (pin?) ~ whatever you gain will easily be lost.


Most young kids nowdays don't have the balls or commitment to stick with a good natural "base/foundation" protocol. Everyone wants everything YESTERDAY!


I put in 6 years of solid lifting. All food and rest, no drugs, no supps, just heavy lifting. I still have that muscle today. Actually, I have more.


I had managed to get up to 220 @ 16% bodyfat with 19 inch arms. Then I dieted down to 176 with 16 inch arms. I realized that I had over-dieted and over-exercised (cardio/aerobics) ~ I was doing too much competitive swimming to gain muscle (bodybuilder type muscle) and I had to physically be pulled out of the pool.

I regained up to around 182 with 17" arms naturally... and then I did my first cycle. I blew up to 196 with 18.5" arms and a total 8 pack ab set up.

I did this cycle a couple of times and finally settled down to a natural status of 182 @ 10% bodyfat. My arms are somewhere around 17" and my abs are in place. I'm also a lot older now.


Been lifting for nearly 18 years and swimming for 38.


I would love to be looking like Jose Raymond or Ronnie Rockel, but once you get to be my age, you know it's only going to end you. I might as well start smoking and drinking.


Who wants to wake up dead? (I think I was too good of friends with Don Youngblood)
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on September 23, 2011, 10:59:58 AM
0H YAH THAT'S Y0UR PR00F. I SEE N0 SL0PING DELTS BUT SQUARED INSTEAD AND A SMALL WAIST. DIMAS HAS WIDE BR0AD SH0ULDERS AND S0 D0 MANY 0THER 0LYMPIC WEIGHTLIFTERS.

broad shoulders you say now because you respect the guy, but narrow shoulders you say when you see phil heath......

his waist is about as wide as his shoulders


(http://tnation.t-nation.com/forum_images/auto/r/350x0/8/9//890083.1137681494293.photo_1_4.jpg)
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: dyslexic on September 23, 2011, 12:22:22 PM
What is he lobbin' on?
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: BILL ANVIL on September 23, 2011, 02:18:30 PM
broad shoulders you say now because you respect the guy, but narrow shoulders you say when you see phil heath......

his waist is about as wide as his shoulders


(http://tnation.t-nation.com/forum_images/auto/r/350x0/8/9//890083.1137681494293.photo_1_4.jpg)

But check out that midsection, looks to have an extremely strong core- The look of a wide waist and abs like that is a sign of strength. Theres a big difference between a GH gut with abs and a powerpack set of abs. Squats give you a solid looking stomach that sticks out like a ninja turtle's. 
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: flinstones1 on September 23, 2011, 03:05:02 PM
dimas was incredible. There are videos of him training,  front squatting 600 pounds with no wraps, no belt. Effortless.  OVerall I would say Weightlifters are probably the most explosive, most powerful  athletes on the planet.


Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: asbrus on September 24, 2011, 08:56:32 AM
dimas was incredible. There are videos of him training,  front squatting 600 pounds with no wraps, no belt. Effortless.  OVerall I would say Weightlifters are probably the most explosive, most powerful  athletes on the planet.




AGREE. DIMAS BEST BACK SQUAT WAS IN THE HIGH 700'S AT A B0DY WEIGHT 0F 185. HERE IS A VID 0F CHAKAR0V D0ING 600 LBS F0R 3 REPS.

Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on October 31, 2011, 05:08:53 PM
dimas was incredible. There are videos of him training,  front squatting 600 pounds with no wraps, no belt. Effortless.  OVerall I would say Weightlifters are probably the most explosive, most powerful  athletes on the planet.




LOL!!!!!!!!!!! ABSOLUTELY NOT!


Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: dyslexic on October 31, 2011, 05:17:19 PM
"Foundation" is like learning to drive a Toyota Corolla manual for a few years and then graduating little by little to faster and faster cars..

The stupidest father in the world would put his un-experienced son in a Pantera as his very first car.


Making funeral arrangements would be more along the lines of "reality"


Build a foundation of muscle. Something solid. Put in your time. Do the work. Don't cheat or look for short-cuts. Just work your ass off for a good 5 years.


Then... whatever. You'll still be a douche, so don't rule that out of the equation.
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: Nails on October 31, 2011, 05:28:06 PM
Foundation is something ugly bitches put on their face to be able to step out of their home without being thrown rocks at and called names
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: apply85 on October 31, 2011, 05:32:45 PM
powerlifters have wide wastes and narrow shoulders, the advantages in leverage should be obvious
Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: slaveboy1980 on October 31, 2011, 08:22:31 PM
foundation means that you waste years training natural

Title: Re: What does "foundation" mean?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on November 01, 2011, 04:33:58 AM
foundation means that you waste years training natural



and natural means anabolic steroids without growth hormone and insulina