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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Marty Champions on September 26, 2011, 09:01:34 PM

Title: No such thing as dying of "natural causes"
Post by: Marty Champions on September 26, 2011, 09:01:34 PM
why dont they say such and such died of cancer or blockage of heart valve due to lack of fruit intake, they wont say died of cardiac arrest they just tell the masses such and such died of natural causes what a crock of shit this world is. when are people gonna wake up to the lies

why do we let the doctors/big pharma/government lie to us
Title: Re: No such thing as dying of natural causes
Post by: DK II on September 26, 2011, 09:02:38 PM
Johnny Falcon for president!
Title: Re: No such thing as dying of natural causes
Post by: Hulkotron on September 26, 2011, 09:05:27 PM
Johnny how do you explain this observation:

(average human life expectancies around the world)
Title: Re: No such thing as dying of natural causes
Post by: Marty Champions on September 26, 2011, 09:09:26 PM


seriously though i feel sorry for native africans i doubt they are anything like the african americans
Title: Re: No such thing as dying of natural causes
Post by: Agnostic007 on September 26, 2011, 09:18:44 PM


You're an idiot, but I'm a bigger idiot because I KNOW you're an idiot and I still click on threads you start...  ::)
Title: Re: No such thing as dying of natural causes
Post by: Primemuscle on September 26, 2011, 09:20:57 PM
Johnny how do you explain this observation:

(average human life expectancies around the world)

You do realize that life expectancy statistics are weighted by how many people die in infancy, childhood and young adulthood in a given area. Because the mortality rate is very high in Africa this lowers the average life span. If you are going to consider fair comparisons, compare the average lifespan in developed countries and then ask yourself what causes the difference between these countries. For example, why do Canadians live longer than folks in the U.S.?
Title: Re: No such thing as dying of natural causes
Post by: Marty Champions on September 26, 2011, 09:23:42 PM
You're an idiot, but I'm a bigger idiot because I KNOW you're an idiot and I still click on threads you start...  ::)

we're all just robots following the most likeable patterns
Title: Re: No such thing as dying of natural causes
Post by: The Grim Lifter on September 26, 2011, 09:24:49 PM
You do realize that life expectancy statistics are weighted by how many people die in infancy, childhood and young adulthood in a given area. Because the mortality rate is very high in Africa this lowers the average life span. If you are going to consider fair comparisons, compare the average lifespan in developed countries and then ask yourself what causes the difference between these countries. For example, why do Canadians live longer than folks in the U.S.?

When you include Mortality how the fuck is Mexico so high
Title: Re: No such thing as dying of natural causes
Post by: Hulkotron on September 26, 2011, 09:30:31 PM
You do realize that life expectancy statistics are weighted by how many people die in infancy, childhood and young adulthood in a given area. Because the mortality rate is very high in Africa this lowers the average life span. If you are going to consider fair comparisons, compare the average lifespan in developed countries and then ask yourself what causes the difference between these countries. For example, why do Canadians live longer than folks in the U.S.?

The Canada-US expectancy is 2.5 years (80.7 vs 78.3), that is hardly meaningful.  The "difference" is because they made the color cutoff at 80.0 years.

I have no idea what you mean by "fair comparison" or why you made this post really.  Thanks for giving a definition of "life span" I guess.
Title: Re: No such thing as dying of "natural causes"
Post by: Primemuscle on September 26, 2011, 09:30:58 PM
why dont they say such and such died of cancer or blockage of heart valve due to lack of fruit intake, they wont say died of cardiac arrest they just tell the masses such and such died of natural causes what a crock of shit this world is. when are people gonna wake up to the lies

why do we let the doctors/big pharma/government lie to us

So, what do you consider a "natural cause"? If for example an eighty year old dies of congestive heart failure, is that a natural cause? How about someone ninety dying from pneumonia or the flu, are those natural causes? My point is we, all die of something sooner or later. How much sooner or later depends on a couple of things, such as one's genetic predisposition to good or bad health or how well one has taken care of their health throughout their lives.
Title: Re: No such thing as dying of natural causes
Post by: Primemuscle on September 26, 2011, 09:40:41 PM
The Canada-US expectancy is 2.5 years (80.7 vs 78.3), that is hardly meaningful.  The "difference" is because they made the color cutoff at 80.0 years.

I have no idea what you mean by "fair comparison" or why you made this post really.  Thanks for giving a definition of "life span" I guess.

Good point. However, a fair good comparison is one that is made between developed countries where hoards of people aren't dying, often at very young ages, from common curable or treatable diseases, such as is the case in Africa. Another issue that sets Africa apart is that many people die of starvation there where that is fairly uncommon in developed countries. Most of the people today dying from AIDS are Africans because they do not have access to the drugs folks have in developed countries.
Title: Re: No such thing as dying of "natural causes"
Post by: Hulkotron on September 26, 2011, 09:49:36 PM
Well if you control or adjust for everything that causes some people to die younger than others then I suppose the whole graph would be yellow, but then the statistic ceases to represent anything real or meaningful.

People die in Africa because it's by-and-large a 3rd-world shithole without enough medicine, food, jobs, money, clean water, clothing, shelter, and education to go around.  That is sort of the whole point.
Title: Re: No such thing as dying of "natural causes"
Post by: Coach is Back! on September 26, 2011, 10:12:24 PM
why dont they say such and such died of cancer or blockage of heart valve due to lack of fruit intake, they wont say died of cardiac arrest they just tell the masses such and such died of natural causes what a crock of shit this world is. when are people gonna wake up to the lies

why do we let the doctors/big pharma/government lie to us

My we buried my grandmother a day before her 100th birthday. She's never had to be on any meds and only went to the doctors when she turned 98. She died of old age....it's natural.
Title: Re: No such thing as dying of natural causes
Post by: Radical Plato on September 26, 2011, 10:20:59 PM
why do Canadians live longer than folks in the U.S.?
Do they live better?
Title: Re: No such thing as dying of "natural causes"
Post by: Radical Plato on September 26, 2011, 10:23:16 PM
All deaths are caused by the process of birth.  Birth and Death are part of Nature - therefore all deaths come about as a causation of nature.
Title: Re: No such thing as dying of "natural causes"
Post by: dyslexic on September 26, 2011, 10:56:17 PM
Insurance companies still say "acts of God" when referring to "natural" disasters... go figure.
Title: Re: No such thing as dying of "natural causes"
Post by: Tapeworm on September 26, 2011, 11:03:48 PM
Insurance companies still say "acts of God" when referring to "natural" disasters... go figure.

Idk why but "Force Majeure" always cracked me up.
Title: Re: No such thing as dying of natural causes
Post by: 20inch calves on September 27, 2011, 12:03:19 AM
Johnny how do you explain this observation:

(average human life expectancies around the world)

thats pretty cool. i would say america's would even be higher if it wasn;t for the obesity epedimic
Title: Re: No such thing as dying of natural causes
Post by: dyslexic on September 27, 2011, 12:08:28 AM
thats pretty cool. i would say america's would even be higher if it wasn;t for the obesity epedimic

America's is actually higher than the Almanac lets on. The obesity epidemic is evolving into a pandemic. Soon the parents will outlive their children due to all the side effects of morbid obesity.

Just a matter of time. Don't matter how much Arnie tries to change their lunches and  outlaw Soda Machines at Public Schools. It just makes the kids MORE rebellious to where they are buying twice the amount on their way to school with their *healthy* lunch money.
Title: Re: No such thing as dying of "natural causes"
Post by: Marty Champions on September 27, 2011, 06:15:41 AM
So, what do you consider a "natural cause"? If for example an eighty year old dies of congestive heart failure, is that a natural cause? How about someone ninety dying from pneumonia or the flu, are those natural causes? My point is we, all die of something sooner or later. How much sooner or later depends on a couple of things, such as one's genetic predisposition to good or bad health or how well one has taken care of their health throughout their lives.

the point being is that it throws off vital statistics for knowledge seekers when docs/morg just classify many deaths as natural causes, they should be more specific

but truth being is that many times they dont even get the cause of death right, the fact is many times its too difficult to tell, and the easy way out is "death by natural causes" because the morg or people that determine cause of death is highly underfuned
Title: Re: No such thing as dying of "natural causes"
Post by: dragonfist on September 27, 2011, 06:20:17 AM
why dont they say such and such died of cancer or blockage of heart valve due to lack of fruit intake, they wont say died of cardiac arrest they just tell the masses such and such died of natural causes what a crock of shit this world is. when are people gonna wake up to the lies

why do we let the doctors/big pharma/government lie to us

If you choked while eating a pincecone, would that be natural?
Title: Re: No such thing as dying of "natural causes"
Post by: Marty Champions on September 27, 2011, 06:45:53 AM
If you choked while eating a pincecone, would that be natural?

choking related death thats even less words than death by natural causes

Title: Re: No such thing as dying of natural causes
Post by: dr.chimps on September 27, 2011, 06:50:36 AM
The Canada-US expectancy is 2.5 years (80.7 vs 78.3), that is hardly meaningful.  The "difference" is because they made the color cutoff at 80.0 years.

I have no idea what you mean by "fair comparison" or why you made this post really.  Thanks for giving a definition of "life span" I guess.
A statistician, or actuarialist would see a 2.5 year difference as 'significant.' 
Title: Re: No such thing as dying of natural causes
Post by: PJim on September 27, 2011, 06:55:39 AM
Johnny how do you explain this observation:

(average human life expectancies around the world)

Don't get me started on "do-gooders", the world's fucking full of them! I had a friend like that in School; he went to Africa to "help" the hungry....and they fucking ate him!
Title: Re: No such thing as dying of natural causes
Post by: Hulkotron on September 27, 2011, 08:22:01 AM
A statistician, or actuarialist would see a 2.5 year difference as 'significant.'  

You can't establish significance, statistical or ecological, from a single number, "dr" chimps.  Don't lecture me on this shit.
Title: Re: No such thing as dying of "natural causes"
Post by: Not Sure on September 27, 2011, 08:59:06 AM
Quote
why dont they say such and such died of cancer or blockage of heart valve due to lack of fruit intake, they wont say died of cardiac arrest they just tell the masses such and such died of natural causes what a crock of shit this world is. when are people gonna wake up to the lies

why do we let the doctors/big pharma/government lie to us



No one cares.......why should they, there are more than enough stimulants to distract the eye.   I see with most people that after they get a glimpse of true reality, whatever the subject, the emotional response is subsided and they logically justify why no changes could-would-or should be made, as it would disrupt what they accept as life.

Why do we submit to an oppression known as a financial system?
Title: Re: No such thing as dying of "natural causes"
Post by: Primemuscle on September 27, 2011, 10:01:57 AM
My we buried my grandmother a day before her 100th birthday. She's never had to be on any meds and only went to the doctors when she turned 98. She died of old age....it's natural.

A death like hers is natural. However, people don't just die of old age, no matter how old they are. Something gives out or stops working, usually their heart. IMO any death as a result of disease or ailment is natural. If someone murders you, you commit suicide  or die as a result of an accident, that is unnatural.
Title: Re: No such thing as dying of "natural causes"
Post by: Primemuscle on September 27, 2011, 10:06:23 AM
why dont they say such and such died of cancer or blockage of heart valve due to lack of fruit intake, they wont say died of cardiac arrest they just tell the masses such and such died of natural causes what a crock of shit this world is. when are people gonna wake up to the lies

why do we let the doctors/big pharma/government lie to us

Could it be that you simply want more information (the details) when you read or hear about someone dying? This is a form of morbid curiosity, which most of us express; we want to know how someone else died so we can somehow insure we won't die like they did. I sometimes read the obituaries in the paper. It is annoying when they don't report exactly how a person died. This is specially true when the person is my age or younger.
Title: Re: No such thing as dying of natural causes
Post by: dr.chimps on September 27, 2011, 10:13:54 AM
You can't establish significance, statistical or ecological, from a single number, "dr" chimps.  Don't lecture me on this shit.
Uh, you were the one who said 'The Canada-US [difference in life] expectancy is 2.5 years (80.7 vs 78.3).' Was I supposed to infer you were talking about one Canadian and one American!?  Oh brother.   ::) 

Title: Re: No such thing as dying of natural causes
Post by: CalvinH on September 27, 2011, 10:19:02 AM
Uh, you were the one who said 'The Canada-US [difference in life] expectancy is 2.5 years (80.7 vs 78.3).' Was I supposed to infer you were talking about one Canadian and one American!?  Oh brother.   ::) 




All the shit I've done and put in my body{no homo}and it would be pretty amazing if I died from natural causes....
Title: Re: No such thing as dying of natural causes
Post by: Mr Nobody on September 27, 2011, 02:28:34 PM
A statistician, or actuarialist would see a 2.5 year difference as 'significant.'  
Are you saying we need a individual such as Charles Babbage make the determination?
Title: Re: No such thing as dying of natural causes
Post by: Samourai Pizzacat on September 27, 2011, 02:41:03 PM
You can't establish significance, statistical or ecological, from a single number, "dr" chimps.  Don't lecture me on this shit.

All right, a confidence interval would help, but since the populations of both countries are in the many millions it's perfectly safe to say it is a significant statistic.
Title: Re: No such thing as dying of natural causes
Post by: Primemuscle on September 27, 2011, 02:45:51 PM
All right, a confidence interval would help, but since the populations of both countries are in the many millions it's perfectly safe to say it is a significant statistic.

Isn't it amusing how these threads get side-tracked by these kinds of nuances coming out of some posters personal perspective and gripes?
Title: Re: No such thing as dying of natural causes
Post by: Hulkotron on September 27, 2011, 03:20:25 PM
All right, a confidence interval would help, but since the populations of both countries are in the many millions it's perfectly safe to say it is a significant statistic.

No, it isn't.  The entire populations of the USA and Canada aren't dead at the moment, so those aren't relevant numbers for this problem (nor are these lifespan data drawn from every single person who dies in a country; they are drawn from much smaller samples).  Even more importantly, lifespan data are not normally distributed, which renders things like "mean" and "standard deviation" conceptually meaningless and makes "significance" a very complicated problem. 

A statistician with any degree of competence would not look at the average lifespans of USA and Canada and say "yep that's significant, Canadians live longer" because he/she would understand these issues and would realize it's a much more complicated problem than looking at a colored graph.  That's all my point is.  Most people would not consider living two years longer when you're in the late-70s range to be meaningful.  It could or could not be "significant", I don't know, but you can't simply glean this from looking at a number and making a post on getbig.com.

Title: Re: No such thing as dying of natural causes
Post by: Mr Nobody on September 27, 2011, 05:26:28 PM
seriously though i feel sorry for native africans i doubt they are anything like the african americans
8)
Title: Re: No such thing as dying of "natural causes"
Post by: The Abdominal Snoman on September 27, 2011, 09:23:24 PM
Cancer can only grow when its feed carbs/sugar etc. Eliminate that and you will never get cancer. ;)
Title: Re: No such thing as dying of natural causes
Post by: Primemuscle on September 27, 2011, 09:49:38 PM
Most people would not consider living two years longer when you're in the late-70s range to be meaningful. 

Although my late seventies is still a decade away, I can say that the older one gets, the more precious life feels. Wait until your contemporaries start dropping off from one illness or another, it really brings one's mortality home. Every day we wake up alive seems meaningful. Living another two and a half years when you in your late seventies is like a miracle. I will admit that when I was twenty something, I didn't give any thought to living to be almost eighty years old. This begs the question, how old are you that you can be so cavalier about others life spans?
Title: Re: No such thing as dying of natural causes
Post by: Hulkotron on September 27, 2011, 09:56:45 PM
Although my late seventies is still a decade away, I can say that the older one gets, the more precious life feels. Wait until your contemporaries start dropping off from one illness or another, it really brings one's mortality home. Every day we wake up alive seems meaningful. Living another two and a half years when you in your late seventies is like a miracle. I will admit that when I was twenty something, I didn't give any thought to living to be almost eighty years old. This begs the question, how old are you that you can be so cavalier about others life spans?

I'm talking about statistics which you seem to know nothing about (hence why you are drawing statements out of context and trying to set up straw men), not your personal experiences and rose-colored glasses.  Give it a rest.
Title: Re: No such thing as dying of natural causes
Post by: Primemuscle on September 27, 2011, 10:24:36 PM
I'm talking about statistics which you seem to know nothing about (hence why you are drawing statements out of context and trying to set up straw men), not your personal experiences and rose-colored glasses.  Give it a rest.

It isn't clear why you are being so rude to me here. I merely replied to your statement suggesting that most people in their late seventies do not find an extra couple of years of life meaningful. What better way to explain that you are most likely wrong about this, then to give a personal example.

Furthermore, it was you who posted the world map which displayed life expectancy by country. In a later post, you acknowledged that Africa is a third world shit hole (I believe that's the words you used).

It's pretty clear why most folks who live in Africa don't live long. What is not so simple to determine is why some folks living in some developed countries live longer than folks living in other developed countries. Hence, my asking the question about Canada verses the U.S.

And again, how old are you?
Title: Re: No such thing as dying of "natural causes"
Post by: the trainer on September 28, 2011, 07:27:52 AM
why dont they say such and such died of cancer or blockage of heart valve due to lack of fruit intake, they wont say died of cardiac arrest they just tell the masses such and such died of natural causes what a crock of shit this world is. when are people gonna wake up to the lies

why do we let the doctors/big pharma/government lie to us

You are 100% correct, we are slowing killing ourselves living in polluted cities and eating processed food.Does the average getbigger realize that everytime he eats he is most likely committing suicide.
Title: Re: No such thing as dying of "natural causes"
Post by: Primemuscle on September 28, 2011, 11:42:07 AM
You are 100% correct, we are slowing killing ourselves living in polluted cities and eating processed food.Does the average getbigger realize that everytime he eats he is most likely committing suicide.

While you may be right, it is interesting that we most folks are living longer than anytime in history. However, I do believe the issue of obesity has reversed this somewhat in recent years. The average life span has more than doubled since the 1600s.

During the early 1600s in England, life expectancy was only about 35 years, largely because two-thirds of all children died before the age of four. The average life expectancy in Colonial America was under 25 years in the Virginia colony, and in New England about 40% of children failed to reach adulthood. During the Industrial Revolution, the life expectancy of children increased dramatically. The percentage of children born in London who died before the age of five decreased from 74.5% in 1730-1749 to 31.8% in 1810-1829.