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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Mr. Magoo on September 27, 2011, 07:13:19 PM

Title: Against Capitalism
Post by: Mr. Magoo on September 27, 2011, 07:13:19 PM
Please watch both videos before responding. I know what the most common responses will be and I want them to see what the video has to say first. I want to see what responses people have after watching the video and knowing fully what he is trying to argue.


Title: Re: Against Capitalism
Post by: Fury on September 27, 2011, 07:19:09 PM
25 mins of someone rambling just so you can respond with some pseudo-intellectual argument you've probably spent the last six hours preparing? Pass. ::)
Title: Re: Against Capitalism
Post by: Mr. Magoo on September 27, 2011, 07:21:32 PM
25 mins of someone rambling just so you can respond with some pseudo-intellectual argument you've probably spent the last six hours preparing? Pass. ::)

lmao

that made me laugh  ;D
Title: Re: Against Capitalism
Post by: Freeborn126 on September 28, 2011, 06:01:03 AM
Please watch both videos before responding. I know what the most common responses will be and I want them to see what the video has to say first. I want to see what responses people have after watching the video and knowing fully what he is trying to argue.




Is that guy trying to look like a total douchebag?  Just because you have long gray hair and big glasses doesn't mean you are an intelligent person.
Title: Re: Against Capitalism
Post by: Mr. Magoo on September 28, 2011, 07:38:58 AM
Is that guy trying to look like a total douchebag?  Just because you have long gray hair and big glasses doesn't mean you are an intelligent person.

really now? It's been a day and that's the only response I get? His looks? You've got to be kidding me. He was a well known political philosopher and author who taught political and social philosophy as well as jurisprudence at Oxford for several years.
Title: Re: Against Capitalism
Post by: Soul Crusher on September 28, 2011, 07:51:36 AM
really now? It's been a day and that's the only response I get? His looks? You've got to be kidding me. He was a well known political philosopher and author who taught political and social philosophy as well as jurisprudence at Oxford for several years.

I can honestly say that was one of the most idiotic things I have ever listened to and I feel really bad for kids wasting their money having to be subjected to such nonsense.

Talk about ivory tower bs completely divorced from reality.   
Title: Re: Against Capitalism
Post by: Mr. Magoo on September 28, 2011, 08:19:10 AM
I can honestly say that was one of the most idiotic things I have ever listened to and I feel really bad for kids wasting their money having to be subjected to such nonsense.

Talk about ivory tower bs completely divorced from reality.   

you didn't object to anything he said  ::)

He also discusses your what I think is a "it's impractical" objection beginning at 11:11 of the 2nd video until the end of the 2nd video. Keep in mind "it's impractical" says nothing about whether or not it's desireable.
Title: Re: Against Capitalism
Post by: Soul Crusher on September 28, 2011, 08:21:05 AM
you didn't object to anything he said  ::)

He also discusses your what I think is a "it's impractical" objection beginning at 11:11 of the 2nd video until the end of the 2nd video. Keep in mind "it's impractical" says nothing about whether or not it's desireable.

I desire a lot of things in my mind that are never going to happen and are not at all practicle.  That's why people in the real world dont waste gobs of time on fantasies like this guy is harboring. 

Road to hell is paved with good intentions.   
Title: Re: Against Capitalism
Post by: kcballer on September 28, 2011, 12:09:09 PM
Great post.  Enjoyed it immensely.  You should look up David Harvey's crisis of capitalism.  Fantastically done presentation by a marxist. 
Title: Re: Against Capitalism
Post by: kcballer on September 28, 2011, 12:10:18 PM
Title: Re: Against Capitalism
Post by: Soul Crusher on September 28, 2011, 12:11:05 PM
Great post.  Enjoyed it immensely.  You should look up David Harvey's crisis of capitalism.  Fantastically done presentation by a marxist. 

LMFAO - at least you admit you are a commie 
Title: Re: Against Capitalism
Post by: kcballer on September 28, 2011, 12:17:01 PM
LMFAO - at least you admit you are a commie 

Not a "commie" but i do read and listen to other viewpoints on a topic.  We aren't all pathological lunatics who frequent only the same sources over and over again.
Title: Re: Against Capitalism
Post by: loco on September 28, 2011, 12:29:50 PM
Yes yes, Capitalism is evil.

The alternative is so much better.  Just look at Russia, Cuba, and the PIGS(Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain).  They are doing so much better than the USA.
Title: Re: Against Capitalism
Post by: kcballer on September 28, 2011, 01:14:24 PM
Yes yes, Capitalism is evil.

The alternative is so much better.  Just look at Russia, Cuba, and the PIGS(Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain).  They are doing so much better than the USA.

or look at Sweden and Denmark.   ;)
Title: Re: Against Capitalism
Post by: Fury on September 28, 2011, 03:44:48 PM
or look at Sweden and Denmark.   ;)

Or like I said the last time I responded to this claim of yours (which you unsurprisingly avoided responding to), look at the number of bankrupt socialist states in Europe. Protip: The number of bankrupt socialist failures outweighs the 2 "successful" ones by a ratio of about 10:1.

Hurray, socialism has a 10% success rate!!!!!!!! Huzzah!  ::)

B elarus
I taly (or Ireland)
G ermany

F rance
U nited
K ingdom

U kraine
P ortugal
S pain


The entire EU, the grand socialist experiment that it was, is insolvent and on the verge of total collapse. All that while contributing precisely fuck all to their own defense. Takes a really failed system to blow through money at the rate the Eurotrash socialists have managed to. Now go away, retard.




Bulldoze any African children today, murderer?
Title: Re: Against Capitalism
Post by: Deicide on September 28, 2011, 04:04:00 PM
or look at Sweden and Denmark.   ;)

Scandinavia has mixed economies and furthermore they are tiny and because of that one could argue they are an example of how effective local decentralised government can be because of their size, each one being the size of an American state. Countries that are much larger cannot function on that model.
Title: Re: Against Capitalism
Post by: loco on September 28, 2011, 04:13:42 PM
Scandinavia has mixed economies and furthermore they are tiny and because of that one could argue they are an example of how effective local decentralised government can be because of their size, each one being the size of an American state. Countries that are much larger cannot function on that model.

Good point!

Ron Paul approved!
Title: Re: Against Capitalism
Post by: George Whorewell on September 28, 2011, 04:29:26 PM
Great post.  Enjoyed it immensely.  You should look up David Harvey's crisis of capitalism.  Fantastically done presentation by a marxist. 

Stupid ideas are still stupid, no matter how many times that you and nitwits as ignorant as yourself hold hands in a congratulatory circle jerk of smug leftist unity.

2+2= 4, not 5


Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Against Capitalism
Post by: MuscleMcMannus on September 28, 2011, 04:29:53 PM
You don't need capitalism to have a free market.  Capitalism at it's very core is  anticompetitive, anti-free market, and concentrates wealth into the hands of the few.  Americans are some of the biggest brainwshed idiots on the planet.  Even if capitalism worked and was a fair and equal system where opportunity existed for all..............America hasn't had capitalism........right now we have corporate socialism or fascism
Title: Re: Against Capitalism
Post by: Emmortal on September 28, 2011, 07:26:17 PM
You don't need capitalism to have a free market.  Capitalism at it's very core is  anticompetitive, anti-free market, and concentrates wealth into the hands of the few.  Americans are some of the biggest brainwshed idiots on the planet.  Even if capitalism worked and was a fair and equal system where opportunity existed for all..............America hasn't had capitalism........right now we have corporate socialism or fascism


America isn't the best example to use when talking about capitalism but when it was in full swing (1930's-1970's) America experienced it's lrgest boom in growth in every field.  Yes I'm aware of the wars having a large effect on the economy, but capitalism played its role very clearly even in those events.

The problem is, there isn't any single answer to the issue of which economics model is "best" that statement is quite ludicrous to make as one single system does not trump the other.  When comparing the US to other countries, it's pretty much imposisble to do so as a true parallel as America is unlike any other country in the world in just about every single regard.

The person in this video is pretty much an idiot.  He's painting capitalism as what really is just human nature.  Humans are never satisfied or content with our current states, if we were, we would be no more than dogs.  Give a dog a home, food, and people to play with and it will be the happiest animal on the face of the earth.  No human has ever been content with just that.  It's part of our nature to desire more and that's not something that an economic model will ever change. If we were content with that, we'd all still be living in caves and running around in animal skins.  Capitalism is essentially an extension of true human nature.  It allows for innovation and development, it frees the people from the chains of poverty and allows for prosperity for all of those willing to partake in it.  There's always going to be people who don't amount to much of anything, that's just the facts of life and no economic model will ever allow for a janitor to aquire the same wealth as an investment banker.

While his ideas are nice and fluffy and painted in a pretty package wrapped up in a bow of hope, it's complete bullshit and will never happen because it goes against the very core of what makes us human.
Title: Re: Against Capitalism
Post by: Mr. Magoo on September 28, 2011, 07:28:21 PM
Yes yes, Capitalism is evil.

The alternative is so much better.  Just look at Russia, Cuba, and the PIGS(Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain).  They are doing so much better than the USA.

He does discuss the practicality of developing an economic democracy beginning at 11:11 in the 2nd video (as I posted to 3333). He says it needs a lot of planning and it would be very difficult to develop, but the key to his argument is that we SHOULD work towards that development. I personally think it is a fault of his that he doesn't develop his idea further to come up with possible economic models. I haven't yet read all that he has written so perhaps he does more in his other works.

By the way, you need to define the word "better". What should be the goal? Highest GDP per capita? Happiness? Etc. He argues in the video (as I'm sure you noticed while watching the clips) that capitalism brings not only GDP but also a lot of misery and unhappiness and this negates any notion of capitalism making a country "better". You need to define what makes one country "better" than another.
Title: Re: Against Capitalism
Post by: George Whorewell on September 29, 2011, 02:42:15 AM
He does discuss the practicality of developing an economic democracy beginning at 11:11 in the 2nd video (as I posted to 3333). He says it needs a lot of planning and it would be very difficult to develop, but the key to his argument is that we SHOULD work towards that development. I personally think it is a fault of his that he doesn't develop his idea further to come up with possible economic models. I haven't yet read all that he has written so perhaps he does more in his other works.

By the way, you need to define the word "better". What should be the goal? Highest GDP per capita? Happiness? Etc. He argues in the video (as I'm sure you noticed while watching the clips) that capitalism brings not only GDP but also a lot of misery and unhappiness and this negates any notion of capitalism making a country "better". You need to define what makes one country "better" than another.

Hey shit for brains--- central planning has never worked anywhere ever. The problem with liberals and self proclaimed online intellectuals, is that none of you can point to any empirical evidence that your pie in the sky vision has ever worked. Want to talk about misery? Do you really want to compare capitalism with the other economic models? At the risk of embarrassing yourself, I strongly suggest that you persist in posting videos rather than commenting on them. 
Title: Re: Against Capitalism
Post by: loco on September 29, 2011, 04:59:26 AM
By the way, you need to define the word "better". What should be the goal? Highest GDP per capita? Happiness? Etc. He argues in the video (as I'm sure you noticed while watching the clips) that capitalism brings not only GDP but also a lot of misery and unhappiness and this negates any notion of capitalism making a country "better". You need to define what makes one country "better" than another.

You are kidding, right?  Are you telling me that it is debatable that the quality of life of the average US resident is better than that of a resident of Cuba, Russia, Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain?    ::)

Title: Re: Against Capitalism
Post by: Not Sure on September 29, 2011, 03:00:35 PM
Starts of interesting, but quickly evolves to diahreha mouth.  Takes wayyyy too long to get to some point, whatever it was...blah blah blah.  

Any financial SYSTEM is an invitation of opression.  " then the unions came about and the capatalists didn't like it, but they couldn't stop it so the unions and public assistance stayed....." or something like that.  DUH!  The dependance on the union/public assistance/govt. is all the same, the capatalists ( money creators,) still win.  Blame banks, govt, who or whatever, the end result is a chosen opression.

Let us all call the video and each other names....marxist, socialist, capatalist, these square wheels shall never roll.  All we have ever been given are square peg answers for a round hole problem, then we argue which square peg should fit the best.  

Quote
Countries that are much larger cannot function on that model

Quote
none of you can point to any empirical evidence that your pie in the sky vision has ever worked

Why not?

WE only kid ourselves that our SYSTEM is better.


  
Title: Re: Against Capitalism
Post by: headhuntersix on September 29, 2011, 03:31:16 PM
You are kidding, right?  Are you telling me that it is debatable that the quality of life of the average US resident is better than that of a resident of Cuba, Russia, Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain?    ::)



This guy is a retard that thinks he's smart.  Things in Ireland are about the same as here..parts of Spain or Portugal..there rest are varying degree's of shithole.
Title: Re: Against Capitalism
Post by: MuscleMcMannus on September 29, 2011, 03:46:18 PM
America isn't the best example to use when talking about capitalism but when it was in full swing (1930's-1970's) America experienced it's lrgest boom in growth in every field.  Yes I'm aware of the wars having a large effect on the economy, but capitalism played its role very clearly even in those events.

The problem is, there isn't any single answer to the issue of which economics model is "best" that statement is quite ludicrous to make as one single system does not trump the other.  When comparing the US to other countries, it's pretty much imposisble to do so as a true parallel as America is unlike any other country in the world in just about every single regard.

The person in this video is pretty much an idiot.  He's painting capitalism as what really is just human nature.  Humans are never satisfied or content with our current states, if we were, we would be no more than dogs.  Give a dog a home, food, and people to play with and it will be the happiest animal on the face of the earth.  No human has ever been content with just that.  It's part of our nature to desire more and that's not something that an economic model will ever change. If we were content with that, we'd all still be living in caves and running around in animal skins.  Capitalism is essentially an extension of true human nature.  It allows for innovation and development, it frees the people from the chains of poverty and allows for prosperity for all of those willing to partake in it.  There's always going to be people who don't amount to much of anything, that's just the facts of life and no economic model will ever allow for a janitor to aquire the same wealth as an investment banker.

While his ideas are nice and fluffy and painted in a pretty package wrapped up in a bow of hope, it's complete bullshit and will never happen because it goes against the very core of what makes us human.

What utter bullshit.  You need to get your facts straight.  The peak of American middle class propserity was in the 50s.  And that was a point in time in which the unions were the strongest and the rich were taxed the most, CEO's paid the least etc.  You cannot take the entire span of 40 years and call the 1930s-70s fruits of capitalism.  That is intellectually dishonest and an utter farce.   The robber baron days are probably the best example of laissez faire capitalism. 
Title: Re: Against Capitalism
Post by: MuscleMcMannus on September 29, 2011, 03:54:00 PM
You take a county like Norway and the people own 70% of the natural resources in which all the money they make is put into a 300+ billin dollar sovereign wealth fund to invest and use how the country sees fit.  Now many people claim that Norway is a country rich in natural resources with relatively small population.  This is bullshit.  We have the entire state of Alaska which probably has 100 times the natural resources and oil reserves that Norway has.  We could do the same thing with our natural resources.  Instead we have private multinational corporations that control everything in the USA.  They own the mines, the timerland. the oil, coal, gas, ALL OF IT!  The American people are witnessing the complete destruction of not only their wealth but the wealth of their kids by these corporate oligarchs.  EVERY SINGLE AMERICAN should own a piece of this country.  Natural resources belong to ALL OF US not a handful of rich and powerful people.  What made America great is the mentality of ownership.  Owning our land, owning our the means of production.  And this is exactly what needs to happen on a LARGE scale.  We are ALLL TINY LITTLE CAPITALISTS that should have some sort of ownership in every aspect of natural resources.  Like Norway.  We should only let a minority percentage of our resources be owned by private companies. 

Title: Re: Against Capitalism
Post by: Fury on September 29, 2011, 04:28:54 PM
Who is a stupider fuck? MusclesMcAnus the bedpan cleaner or Mr. Magoo, the community college student?

I'm not surprised that a union thug like McAnus, whose sole purpose in life is to bankrupt as many hospitals as he can (while sucking what he can out of the government, to boot), is praising the parasitical union thugs and their leaders with their $400k salaries.  ::)
Title: Re: Against Capitalism
Post by: Mr. Magoo on September 29, 2011, 05:10:37 PM
Who is a stupider fuck? MusclesMcAnus the bedpan cleaner or Mr. Magoo, the community college student?

I'm not surprised that a union thug like McAnus, whose sole purpose in life is to bankrupt as many hospitals as he can (while sucking what he can out of the government, to boot), is praising the parasitical union thugs and their leaders with their $400k salaries.  ::)

I go to a university

for free too  :D
Title: Re: Against Capitalism
Post by: Soul Crusher on September 29, 2011, 05:12:11 PM
I go to a university

for free too  :D

it's obvious you are getting exactly what you are paying for.   
Title: Re: Against Capitalism
Post by: Mr. Magoo on September 29, 2011, 05:13:40 PM
it's obvious you are getting exactly what you are paying for.   

haha, and just what university did you get a free ride to? And what no-name law school did you go to again?

gayer than a "i'm smarter than you!" argument
Title: Re: Against Capitalism
Post by: Soul Crusher on September 29, 2011, 05:15:36 PM
haha, and just what university did you get a free ride to? And what no-name law school did you go to again?

gayer than a "i'm smarter than you!" argument



Oh relax.  It was a joke.
Title: Re: Against Capitalism
Post by: Sizwe on September 29, 2011, 07:19:16 PM
I like this guy, we should nationalize everything...including my debt.
Title: Re: Against Capitalism
Post by: Emmortal on September 29, 2011, 11:32:30 PM
What utter bullshit.  You need to get your facts straight.  The peak of American middle class propserity was in the 50s.  And that was a point in time in which the unions were the strongest and the rich were taxed the most, CEO's paid the least etc.  You cannot take the entire span of 40 years and call the 1930s-70s fruits of capitalism.  That is intellectually dishonest and an utter farce.   The robber baron days are probably the best example of laissez faire capitalism. 

You are correct about the 50's being the strongest for the middle class, and you also name exactly what caused the downward trend from capitalism to corporatism and fascism: unions.

What's intellectually dishonest is claiming unions were the cause of Americas prosperity when in fact they were the turning point in causing the deep economic cacner we see today.  Unions should have been abolished with the typewriter, they were useful for a period but serve no purpose.
Title: Re: Against Capitalism
Post by: MuscleMcMannus on September 30, 2011, 01:49:18 PM
You are correct about the 50's being the strongest for the middle class, and you also name exactly what caused the downward trend from capitalism to corporatism and fascism: unions.

What's intellectually dishonest is claiming unions were the cause of Americas prosperity when in fact they were the turning point in causing the deep economic cacner we see today.  Unions should have been abolished with the typewriter, they were useful for a period but serve no purpose.

Bullshit.  Believe what you want.  You are the typical clueless fucking American who has no concept of economic fact.  What destroyed America was free trade, corporate greed and our politicians selling us out to countries like China where are exports are heavily taxed and their imports are not.

All you have to do is look at Germany.  They have some of the strongest auto unions in the world.  Right now they have 6.6% unemployment rate and the German people have a quality of life most Americans can only dream of.  But I'm sure you'll blame that on some bullshit excuse. 

I realize unions have become corrupt just like government and corporate America.  But you don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.   
Title: Re: Against Capitalism
Post by: MuscleMcMannus on September 30, 2011, 01:52:12 PM
Who is a stupider fuck? MusclesMcAnus the bedpan cleaner or Mr. Magoo, the community college student?

I'm not surprised that a union thug like McAnus, whose sole purpose in life is to bankrupt as many hospitals as he can (while sucking what he can out of the government, to boot), is praising the parasitical union thugs and their leaders with their $400k salaries.  ::)

Stupider?  LOL...........
Title: Re: Against Capitalism
Post by: Soul Crusher on September 30, 2011, 01:53:56 PM
Hey MM - reading Suskinds' book about Obama called "Confidence Men" and he disses males in your profession specifically when discussing the jobs crisis w Krueger and Goolsbee.     
Title: Re: Against Capitalism
Post by: MuscleMcMannus on September 30, 2011, 01:57:28 PM
Hey MM - reading Suskinds' book about Obama called "Confidence Men" and he disses males in your profession specifically when discussing the jobs crisis w Krueger and Goolsbee.      

I go to work like any other hardworking middle class American and pay my taxes........nonunion hospital.  I've seen more shit when it comes to life, pain, suffering etc. than most could fucking imagine.  Most people have no fucking clue what goes on in a hospital.  I can't stand all the bullshit government bureaucracy that goes on in healthcare and it's ridiculous how anti free market hospitals and healthcare is nowadays.  But that's how it is in just about every aspect of our economy nowadays.  Government is picking the winners and the losers with tax breaks, subsidies, etc.  Defense, agriculture, healthcare, finance, real estate, construction.  Just about every sector of our economy is heavily subsidized to some extent.  

And I'm an RN not a fucking nurse's aide like Obama was quoted as criticizing.  But what the fuck do you expect from some fucking homo like him?  As if his cocksucking ass has ever worked a hard day in his life.  He's a fucking clown along with just about every past and present administration for the last 50 years.  Both dem and republicans.  One and the same.
Title: Re: Against Capitalism
Post by: Soul Crusher on September 30, 2011, 02:06:40 PM
I go to work like any other hardworking middle class American and pay my taxes........nonunion hospital.  I've seen more shit when it comes to life, pain, suffering etc. than most could fucking imagine.  Most people have no fucking clue what goes on in a hospital.  I can't stand all the bullshit government bureaucracy that goes on in healthcare and it's ridiculous how anti free market hospitals and healthcare is nowadays.  But that's how it is in just about every aspect of our economy nowadays.  Government is picking the winners and the losers with tax breaks, subsidies, etc.  Defense, agriculture, healthcare, finance, real estate, construction.  Just about every sector of our economy is heavily subsidized to some extent.  

And I'm an RN not a fucking nurse's aide like Obama was quoted as criticizing.  But what the fuck do you expect from some fucking homo like him?  As if his cocksucking ass has ever worked a hard day in his life.  He's a fucking clown along with just about every past and present administration for the last 50 years.  Both dem and republicans.  One and the same.



The quote in the book is ridiculous to be honest, as are many others.   I just shook my head in disgust reading his BS. 

the book is pretty nasty to be honest - talks about Geither, Summers, and this guy from UBS called Wolff who got obama in w the wall street mafia from day 1.