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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Coach is Back! on October 12, 2011, 03:38:47 PM

Title: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 12, 2011, 03:38:47 PM
I need those right now. One of the kids that I train, her mother was in this salon at the time of the shooting.

(CBS/AP)

SEAL BEACH, Calif. - Six people were killed and three were wounded Wednesday in a shooting at a hair salon in a normally sedate Southern California beach community, authorities said.

The six deaths were confirmed and the other three victims were taken to a hospital in critical condition, police Sgt. Steve Bowles told KCAL-TV.

Bowles said a suspect was arrested shortly after the shooting "without incident" about a half-mile from the salon. Officers located the suspect's vehicle and found what they described as multiple weapons in his car.

"The officers identified the vehicle as it was leaving the location," Bowles told the station.

The motive for the shooting was still unclear. Bowles told KCAL 9 the suspect was cooperative and did not resist arrest.

KTLA-TV reports that the suspect was wearing body armor at the time of his arrest.

The shooting was reported at 1:21 p.m. in a cluster of small businesses on Pacific Coast Highway.

The quiet beachfront city of approximately 25,000 residents identifies itself as the Gateway to Southern California's Orange County and is located about 30 miles southeast of Los Angeles.

It is home to Leisure World, a gated senior citizen community of 9,000 people, as well as the Seal Beach Naval Weapons Station military complex. Two-thirds of the city's 13.23 square miles are occupied by the Seal Beach National Wildlife Refuge.



Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on October 12, 2011, 03:44:40 PM
I need those right now. One of the kids that I train, her mother was in this salon at the time of the shooting.

(CBS/AP)

SEAL BEACH, Calif. - Six people were killed and three were wounded Wednesday in a shooting at a hair salon in a normally sedate Southern California beach community, authorities said.

The six deaths were confirmed and the other three victims were taken to a hospital in critical condition, police Sgt. Steve Bowles told KCAL-TV.

Bowles said a suspect was arrested shortly after the shooting "without incident" about a half-mile from the salon. Officers located the suspect's vehicle and found what they described as multiple weapons in his car.

"The officers identified the vehicle as it was leaving the location," Bowles told the station.

The motive for the shooting was still unclear. Bowles told KCAL 9 the suspect was cooperative and did not resist arrest.

KTLA-TV reports that the suspect was wearing body armor at the time of his arrest.

The shooting was reported at 1:21 p.m. in a cluster of small businesses on Pacific Coast Highway.

The quiet beachfront city of approximately 25,000 residents identifies itself as the Gateway to Southern California's Orange County and is located about 30 miles southeast of Los Angeles.

It is home to Leisure World, a gated senior citizen community of 9,000 people, as well as the Seal Beach Naval Weapons Station military complex. Two-thirds of the city's 13.23 square miles are occupied by the Seal Beach National Wildlife Refuge.





It's tragic but prayer doesn't work it's a useless gesture
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: viking1 on October 12, 2011, 03:45:15 PM
It's crazy, Coach.

I'm scared to hear the names of the victims when they're released   :(

This is bad.  
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: #1 Klaus fan on October 12, 2011, 04:05:51 PM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e9/Bison_skull_pile_edit.jpg/767px-Bison_skull_pile_edit.jpg)
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: exocet on October 12, 2011, 04:21:34 PM
I need those right now.

You got it Coach.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: bigdumbbell on October 12, 2011, 04:23:36 PM
um, that looked like a Mexican Salon :X
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: sync pulse on October 12, 2011, 04:24:14 PM
certainly.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: outby43 on October 12, 2011, 04:27:33 PM
I don't pray but I wish their family the best in this tough time.  I don't know what would be harder, losing a loved one unexpectedly or watching them suffer for a few months.  Life sucks sometimes.  :-\
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: leadhead on October 12, 2011, 04:35:37 PM
They're in my prayers Coach.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Obvious Gimmick on October 12, 2011, 04:38:03 PM
Some crazy shit. was watching it ont he news. They got the dude. He will be some whack white dude who just got laid off or burned by a woman.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Fortress on October 12, 2011, 04:38:04 PM
Pray? To what? To whom?

Such a useless activity.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 12, 2011, 04:48:25 PM
Just heard 2 more of the critical died. Her daughter is only 16.

Fortress...did you read the title of the thread?
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: The_Leafy_Bug on October 12, 2011, 04:51:37 PM
Instead of praying why don't you do something more usefull like spend some time with the victims family and try to make them feel better. Prayer is useless and i find it somewhat insulting. It's like saying "please think about me or x person.... hmmm ok done... now lets go look at porn/getbig/spend time doing X destructive activity." Donate some time or charity. Do something other then think.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: StanZoLOL on October 12, 2011, 04:56:31 PM
Instead of praying why don't you do something more usefull like spend some time with the victims family and try to make them feel better. Prayer is useless and i find it somewhat insulting. It's like saying "please think about me or x person.... hmmm ok done... now lets go look at porn/getbig/spend time doing X destructive activity." Donate some time or charity. Do something other then think.

x2
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on October 12, 2011, 05:03:51 PM
Instead of praying why don't you do something more usefull like spend some time with the victims family and try to make them feel better. Prayer is useless and i find it somewhat insulting. It's like saying "please think about me or x person.... hmmm ok done... now lets go look at porn/getbig/spend time doing X destructive activity." Donate some time or charity. Do something other then think.

I agree , prayer is useless because entertaining there is a God it's all contingent on his whims anyway. If God answers the prayers then he's great and omnipotent and kind and just and if he doesn't than it's just God's plan  ???

What does one pray for in a situation like this? their loved ones weren't the one that got shot? if they were they survive? for comfort ? the strength to carry on? If God grants these prayers , how about praying for something useful like striking the gunman down before he murders anyone if God does intervenes in people's lives than like most believers feel , why follow someone with the ability to stop this but does nothing?

Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Obvious Gimmick on October 12, 2011, 05:07:05 PM
not a pray-er either. but maybe this isnt the time to debate that. Coach has been hit with a tragic event and is looking for support. no need to be so militant all the time.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: The_Leafy_Bug on October 12, 2011, 05:08:10 PM
not a pray-er either. but maybe this isnt the time to debate that. Coach has been hit with a tragic event and is looking for support. no need to be so militant all the time.
Not trying to be militant. Merely making a suggestion that would work more in his favor and better the situation. He asked for support so i offered the best advice i could.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: dyslexic on October 12, 2011, 05:10:22 PM
Wow. I have a friend who lives right off of Seal Beach Blvd.


Prayers sent (regardless)


And one day, the kids here will believe in the Power of Prayer.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: The True Adonis on October 12, 2011, 05:10:43 PM
I don't pray but I wish their family the best in this tough time.  I don't know what would be harder, losing a loved one unexpectedly or watching them suffer for a few months.  Life sucks sometimes.  :-\
I`ve been through both and the first one is a bit worse as you don`t expect it.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: BIG ACH on October 12, 2011, 05:11:30 PM
I don't pray either but there's no need for any of you guys' smart ass remarks about 'prayers not working and stuff' in this thread!


My thoughts are with you Coach, I'm sorry.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: The True Adonis on October 12, 2011, 05:12:49 PM
not a pray-er either. but maybe this isnt the time to debate that. Coach has been hit with a tragic event and is looking for support. no need to be so militant all the time.
Oh Bullshit.  There is always time to discuss anything.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on October 12, 2011, 05:15:58 PM
I don't pray either but there's no need for any of you guys' smart ass remarks about 'prayers not working and stuff' in this thread!


My thoughts are with you Coach, I'm sorry.


How is it smart ass to say prayer doesn't work? serious question.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: The True Adonis on October 12, 2011, 05:16:46 PM
What is the proper arbitrary time frame that must pass before we may engage in ridiculing Coach and Prayers?

Its best to ridicule them right as they are taking place so the morons can see the context and the epic uselessness of it.  Let enough time pass and their faulty brain will not understand the point you are trying to make and will somehow rationalize that their prayers actually did something.

Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Fortress on October 12, 2011, 05:17:36 PM
Fortress...did you read the title of the thread?

No  ;D
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Fortress on October 12, 2011, 05:19:36 PM
I "pray" the shooter gets run over by a dump truck. How's that?
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: BIG ACH on October 12, 2011, 05:29:27 PM

How is it smart ass to say prayer doesn't work? serious question.

Its not smart ass to say prayers don't work... but you know very well, HERE ON GET BIG, ON THIS VERY THREAD, the intent is to be a smart ass!  As I said, I don't pray or believe myself, but there's a time and place for everything, clearly Coach is hurting and he was looking for people who pray to back him up.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on October 12, 2011, 05:37:06 PM
Its not smart ass to say prays don't work... but you know very well, HERE ON GET BIG, ON THIS VERY THREAD, the intent is to be a smart ass!  As I said, I don't pray or believe myself, but there's a time and place for everything, clearly Coach is hurting and he was looking for people who pray to back him up.

I disagree , I said it was tragic but seriously want to know what praying is going to accomplish it's not being a smart ass just pointing out the illogical concept
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: BIG ACH on October 12, 2011, 05:40:25 PM
I disagree , I said it was tragic but seriously want to know what praying is going to accomplish it's not being a smart ass just pointing out the illogical concept

Well - if this was your sincere intent, than you have my apologies! 


But clearly coach thinks it works- so thats what he needed at the time.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: The True Adonis on October 12, 2011, 05:41:54 PM
What does Coach want from us precisely?  There is nothing we can do and its not like he is going to call those people`s families and say, "The True Adonis offered his support but not his prayers because he is an atheist".


I find it to be another Christian ploy to make him feel better about a horrible situation.  
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on October 12, 2011, 05:42:21 PM
Well - if this was your sincere intent, than you have my apologies! 


But clearly coach thinks it works- so thats what he needed at the time.

No need to apologize , It baffles my mind that people ask for prayer after something tragic happens and I honestly don't get how it supposed to be of any comfort.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: The_Leafy_Bug on October 12, 2011, 05:45:28 PM
No need to apologize , It baffles my mind that people ask for prayer after something tragic happens and I honestly don't get how it supposed to be of any comfort.
In conjunction to this, the mere thought of having to ask for it makes it insincere. You are either trying to create obligation, you believe in magic, or both. Praying does nothing. As i said before offer the family moral support. Maybe offer the family member free training or something. Donate some time to them. Give back.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: LittleJ on October 12, 2011, 06:17:28 PM
Any pics of the shooter?
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Reeves on October 12, 2011, 06:29:49 PM
Pray? To what? To whom?

Such a useless activity.

Do you think?  Put them in your thoughts and hope for the best.  Shit!  This is why so many people think poorly of us atheists.  FTN.

Coach, they will be in my thoughts.  I wish the best for them.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: TrueGrit on October 12, 2011, 06:33:11 PM
We got to pray just to make it today.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Obvious Gimmick on October 12, 2011, 06:42:11 PM
Any pics of the shooter?

saw a distant shot on the news. looked like a fat white dude.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: viking1 on October 12, 2011, 06:45:34 PM
(http://media.trb.com/media/photo/2011-10/65376366.jpg)
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: LWGA on October 12, 2011, 06:48:23 PM
What does Coach want from us precisely?  There is nothing we can do and its not like he is going to call those people`s families and say, "The True Adonis offered his support but not his prayers because he is an atheist".


I find it to be another Christian ploy to make him feel better about a horrible situation.  

Given the name of his thread, it's obvious that he wasn't asking anything from those with your mindset.  One could argue that YOU chose to make this an opportunity express/feel better about your perspective.  Of course you're an intelligent fellow.  I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know.  

Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Obvious Gimmick on October 12, 2011, 06:48:56 PM
(http://media.trb.com/media/photo/2011-10/65376366.jpg)

Im smelling a caption this pic thread
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: TrueGrit on October 12, 2011, 06:49:53 PM
(http://media.trb.com/media/photo/2011-10/65376366.jpg)

They could at least button up his shirt. Nobody needs to be seeing that.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: MP on October 12, 2011, 06:51:56 PM
What is the proper arbitrary time frame that must pass before we may engage in ridiculing Coach and Prayers?

You come off as such a dick. Are you not getting laid?
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Man of Steel on October 12, 2011, 08:01:01 PM
Will do.....MOS


Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Man of Steel on October 12, 2011, 08:12:40 PM
What does Coach want from us precisely?  There is nothing we can do and its not like he is going to call those people`s families and say, "The True Adonis offered his support but not his prayers because he is an atheist".


I find it to be another Christian ploy to make him feel better about a horrible situation. 

Oh give me a break.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 12, 2011, 08:15:40 PM
Sorry to say my client's mother didn't make it. Been with the family most of the late afternoon. She was one of the shooting victims.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Big N on October 12, 2011, 08:17:28 PM
I think most people who commented in this thread are missing the point here. Coach wants "some moral support", is it that hard for some of you guys to understand? A few words of encouragement to feel better, or sending your prayers in "spirits" his way etc. There's no need to speculate anything else, and get into a whole another discussion that's irrelevant to this tragedy of broken hearts.

Coach - Feel better dude, hope things work out for the families affected by this tragedy. Keep your head up bro.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: 20inch calves on October 12, 2011, 08:18:51 PM
It's tragic but prayer doesn't work it's a useless gesture

bite your tongue wench. learn to respectful to other people's beliefs.

i will pray coach
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 12, 2011, 08:19:11 PM
Thank you for all that prayed, as for the ones who don't but were kind enough to keep your thoughts, thank you and for those who critiize prayer, it helps give the victims families comfort as they were Christians.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Man of Steel on October 12, 2011, 08:20:28 PM
Sorry to say my client's mother didn't make it. Been with the family most of the late afternoon. She was one of the shooting victims.

Truly sorry Coach.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: 20inch calves on October 12, 2011, 08:21:37 PM
probably an angry ex or something. maybe a mid life crisis? look at the dude i am surprised he didn't kill himself with his man boobs showing >:(
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 12, 2011, 08:25:11 PM
20inch, that's exactly what it was. I've known this lady for the better part of 8 year and her daughter (client) at least that long.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: SF1900 on October 12, 2011, 08:28:48 PM
I don't pray, but my condolences go out to them. Sorry to hear, coach :'( :'(
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: avxo on October 12, 2011, 08:40:07 PM
Sorry to say my client's mother didn't make it. Been with the family most of the late afternoon. She was one of the shooting victims.

Man, think of  all the families who now have to deal with the aftermath of this insanity and cope with the loss of their loved ones... Difficult times ahead for all of them.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 12, 2011, 08:49:55 PM
Yes, just not the family but also the community. Its a very close nit community. I don't know who the other victims are yet, but I was a coach for Seal Beach Pony baseball for 4 years and I'm in that town daily.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: BIG ACH on October 12, 2011, 08:57:25 PM

I'm sorry Coach.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: #1 Klaus fan on October 12, 2011, 08:59:17 PM

How is it smart ass to say prayer doesn't work? serious question.

Inconvinient truth.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Palpatine Q on October 12, 2011, 09:00:44 PM
Not trying to be militant. Merely making a suggestion that would work more in his favor and better the situation. He asked for support so i offered the best advice i could.

or how about you just shut the fuck up and get out of the thread
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Reeves on October 12, 2011, 09:01:13 PM
As to the existence of God or whatever may be "out there" this much is true.  Those that know shit tend to talk the most shit.

Coach, again, I hope all the best for the families of those taken from them.  To my  fellow atheists, either behave or make your dad proud and go fuck your mother again.  WTF you mental eunuchs, loved ones were lost today...
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 12, 2011, 09:02:39 PM
Thank you Reeves. I know I've been lax on getting back to you but I will.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: The True Adonis on October 12, 2011, 09:07:02 PM
What was this scumbag`s motive for ruining these peoples lives?  

Coach, hopefully you can do something to help mitigate their grief if you have the means and time to do so.

Let us also hope the California Justice system isn`t too kind to such human waste as this.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 12, 2011, 09:12:33 PM
TA, gotta to admit, that's the nicest thing you've said and I agree. This was pre-meditated with muliple counts. Dudes probably going to plead insanity (like the shooter in Az with that congresswoman) but eventually be sentanced to death....which in California would take about 20 years)
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Obvious Gimmick on October 12, 2011, 09:16:42 PM
TA, gotta to admit, that's the nicest thing you've said and I agree. This was pre-meditated with muliple counts. Dudes probably going to plead insanity (like the shooter in Az with that congresswoman) but eventually be sentanced to death....which in California would take about 20 years)

Bingo: Your Honor, my client was blinded by rage caused by his wives infidelity and recent loss of job. I urge you to look at all the good....blah....blah.... ..blah. ::)

with Calif weak legal system, he'll plead to 6 counts of 2nd degree murder, get 150 to life then sit in prison filing lawsuits about how the toilet paper is hurting his ass.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Disgusted on October 12, 2011, 09:17:46 PM
Damn Joe that sucks. Yes I'll say a prayer. Prayer is not useless if it makes one feel better.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: deadz on October 12, 2011, 09:18:10 PM
Seal Beach police said the death toll from the salon shooting has risen to eight people. A ninth victim is in critical condition at Long Beach Memorial Medical Center.

"This could be one of our greatest tragedies," Police Sgt. Steve Bowles said.

The gunman opened fire inside the crowded salon Wednesday, littering the shop with bodies. Police said he acted alone, although investigators said they were still scrambling to piece together what triggered such violence.



Eyewitnesses said that he was targeting his ex-wife and that the two were involved in a custody dispute.

The alleged shooter was apprehended only a few blocks from the Salon Meritage, the Pacific Coast Highway shop that was bustling with customers and stylists when the shooting erupted.

One of the victims was apparently the owner of the salon, Randy Fannin, a relative said.

"Randy is dead," said the owner's niece, Tami Scarcella. "Randy is dead for sure."

A middle-aged Anaheim woman who identified herself as Cindy said she was sitting in the chair getting her hair done by Fannin when a man walked in and started shooting.

"We thought it was maybe firecrackers," she said. "But he just didn't stop. Anybody he saw he was shooting."

"It went boom, boom, boom," she said, speaking outside the taped-off crime scene. "I was afraid he was going to shoot everybody."

The afternoon shooting left the normally placid beach town struggling to make sense of the carnage. A police spokesman said the shooting had put the city and its small police force on unfamiliar ground.

Bowles said the crime scene was horrific. "There are victims throughout the entire salon," he said.

Witnesses and survivors alike were taken to a nearby apartment complex to settle their nerves. Others milled outside the police lines at the neighborhood shopping center, recounting what had happened.

Marissa Pei said she had been at the gym earlier in the day with a friend before bumping into her again outside the shopping center. She was sobbing.

" ''My friend is dead. My friend is dead,' " Pei said the woman told her. "I held her."

Pei said she also spoke to a man married to someone who was at the salon.

"'My baby. She's half of me,' " Pei recalled him saying. " 'Please, God, don't let her be dead.' "

Dion Martini, a manicurist at a nearby salon, said: "This is a shock to the whole community. All of us around here have worked together at one time or another."

Martini was busy with a client herself when she heard sirens and helicopters and knew something was wrong. When she learned a shooting had unfolded in a salon much like hers, she struggled to contain her emotions.

"I've been having chills and had to hold back tears," she said. "I just can't imagine anybody being that sick to go in and do that to anybody."

Dr. James Blake, a dentist, was in his 5th street office doing bridge work on a patient, as his hygienists cleaned other patients' teeth, when he heard what he later learned were gunshots coming from the parking lot outside.

"Then there was a pause and a few more gunshots," said Blake in an interview with The Times. "I didn't see the shooter."

Alarmed, Blake said his staff immediately locked the door to the office until police arrived.

The shooting "definitely was very unexpected" for Seal Beach, said Blake, who's had his office in the shopping center since 1992.

"When you have somebody who just loses it, you can be anywhere and not be safe," he said.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: The True Adonis on October 12, 2011, 09:23:42 PM
TA, gotta to admit, that's the nicest thing you've said and I agree. This was pre-meditated with muliple counts. Dudes probably going to plead insanity (like the shooter in Az with that congresswoman) but eventually be sentanced to death....which in California would take about 20 years)
Nobody deserves to have their rights violated in such a fashion.  Any one of us could have been in that building when that obese hog decided it was time to create such mayhem for no reason whatsoever.  I honestly wish he would have been dealt with then and there as I don`t need to hear a word of "his side of the story".  
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: 20inch calves on October 12, 2011, 09:29:39 PM
Nobody deserves to have their rights violated in such a fashion.  Any one of us could have been in that building when that obese hog decided it was time to create such mayhem for no reason whatsoever.  I honestly wish he would have been dealt with then and there as I don`t need to hear a word of "his side of the story".  

i agree. i don't care what is story is either. they should take him out and put a bullet in his head.

may all the victims RIP
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 12, 2011, 10:46:06 PM
Again TA, we agree.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Max_Rep on October 12, 2011, 10:53:21 PM
Thank you for all that prayed, as for the ones who don't but were kind enough to keep your thoughts, thank you and for those who critiize prayer, it helps give the victims families comfort as they were Christians.

I prayed Joe. I was actually on the 405 right near there when the news broke. What was your clients Mom's name? I listened to Tim Conway, Jr. talk about it all night on KFI AM 640. He kept talking about what a great community Seal Beach is because he lived there for 3 years.

To the victims Rest in God's Glory.  
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 12, 2011, 10:56:52 PM
Thank you Max. Her name was Michelle Fast.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Max_Rep on October 12, 2011, 11:39:29 PM
Updated my post. Rest in Peace Michelle Fast.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: gh15 on October 13, 2011, 01:38:24 AM
i didnt read this,, but let me guess what happened,, sound quite bad,, i dont follow news around local americana since nothnig happen in americana aside from cheating or drunks and in between some pagents and weather,, so let me guess this one tell me if im right,,

this story has something to do with cheating or someone who fucked somebody else and was married or is married ,, it involve generation nothingess whore that cheated on hubby or hubby that was drunk and cheated on the woman ,, am i right?  either something to do with suckin another man cock ,, or fucking him ,, or something of the such ,,

drunks,, whores,, drugs,, the untoled story of americana 2000,, the fall of a nation socially

i know im right ,, dont need to answer


gh15 approved
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: pellius on October 13, 2011, 04:13:35 AM
You had my prayers, Coach. Even before you asked for it.

If only good people, people who have to go through the same background check and training that a cop has to go through, were allowed to carry firearms there would be a whole lot less of this. The only way to stop a man with a gun is another man with a gun.

If someone like that Bench guy was there lives would have been save and there would be no need for a trial. A 200 grain Hydra-shok would have been enough.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: dr.chimps on October 13, 2011, 04:41:18 AM
You had my prayers, Coach. Even before you asked for it.

If only good people, people who have to go through the same background check and training that a cop has to go through, were allowed to carry firearms there would be a whole lot less of this. The only way to stop a man with a gun is another man with a gun.

If someone like that Bench guy was there lives would have been save and there would be no need for a trial. A 200 grain Hydra-shok would have been enough.
Ha! Good people. Nice one.  ;D
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Reeves on October 13, 2011, 06:16:55 AM
i didnt read this,, but let me guess what happened,, sound quite bad,, i dont follow news around local americana since nothnig happen in americana aside from cheating or drunks and in between some pagents and weather,, so let me guess this one tell me if im right,,

this story has something to do with cheating or someone who fucked somebody else and was married or is married ,, it involve generation nothingess whore that cheated on hubby or hubby that was drunk and cheated on the woman ,, am i right?  either something to do with suckin another man cock ,, or fucking him ,, or something of the such ,,

drunks,, whores,, drugs,, the untoled story of americana 2000,, the fall of a nation socially

i know im right ,, dont need to answer


gh15 approved

"Drugs, whores, drugs..."  Sounds more like the bullshit that is today's bodydoping.  And yes, once again I am right.  FTN.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Butterbean on October 13, 2011, 06:35:46 AM
Horrible.  I'm so sorry Coach.  Praying for you and the victim's families and other friends.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Stavios on October 13, 2011, 06:47:22 AM
It's tragic but prayer doesn't work it's a useless gesture

My name is Stavios and I approve this message

aweful story tho
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Stavios on October 13, 2011, 06:50:05 AM
Sorry to say my client's mother didn't make it. Been with the family most of the late afternoon. She was one of the shooting victims.

sucks, poor kid

Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: LittleJ on October 13, 2011, 06:58:54 AM
saw a distant shot on the news. looked like a fat white dude.

Wheres 333386?
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: MORTALCOIL on October 13, 2011, 07:00:02 AM
Upon hearing the news, i prayed Coach was in that salon. Didn't work. No prayers do.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Sherief Shalaby on October 13, 2011, 07:02:01 AM
coach is sad because he will lose his client during the mourning period :-X..

just joking to get you out of the bad mood.. sorry for what happened but that's life..
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: #1 Klaus fan on October 13, 2011, 07:28:26 AM
Ha! Good people. Nice one.  ;D

Lets have a gun battle to sort out who are the bad and the good.  ;D
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Wiggs on October 13, 2011, 07:49:00 AM
Im sorry to hear this coach...
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: pellius on October 13, 2011, 07:56:42 AM
Upon hearing the news, i prayed Coach was in that salon. Didn't work. No prayers do.

We have some truly wicked people on this board.

You are one worthless, scummy, piece of shit.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: pellius on October 13, 2011, 07:58:59 AM
Lets have a gun battle to sort out who are the bad and the good.  ;D

The ones who shoot innocent people = Bad
The ones who shoot people who shoot innocent people = Good
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: leadhead on October 13, 2011, 08:04:58 AM
You had my prayers, Coach. Even before you asked for it.

If only good people, people who have to go through the same background check and training that a cop has to go through, were allowed to carry firearms there would be a whole lot less of this. The only way to stop a man with a gun is another man with a gun.

If someone like that Bench guy was there lives would have been save and there would be no need for a trial. A 200 grain Hydra-shok would have been enough.

You're right, the damages could have been minimized by a concealed carrier. These occurrences happen too often these days. I'm still praying for them Coach
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: pellius on October 13, 2011, 08:15:12 AM
Aint that simple.

If an off duty police officer just happened to be in that salon and as soon  as the nut case fired his first shot he then took two slugs into his chest cavity by the off duty officer would that have been a good thing or bad?
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Man of Steel on October 13, 2011, 08:19:54 AM
We have some truly wicked people on this board.


Unfortunately this is true.  You know I actually pray for those on this site almost every night....believers and nonbelievers alike.  

Then I have other moments (moments of sheer weakness) in which the behavior of some makes my blood boil and I'd like to smack the taste outta their mouths.  Then I regain my composure.  So many times I've typed a response, read it, realized I refuse to stoop to that level and delete it.  

The luxury of online anonymity....turns cowards into temporary lions.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: pellius on October 13, 2011, 08:27:58 AM
Unfortunately this is true.  You know I actually pray for those on this site almost every night....believers and nonbelievers alike.  

Then I have other moments (moments of sheer weakness) in which the behavior of some makes my blood boil and I'd like to smack the taste outta their mouths.  Then I regain my composure.  So many times I've typed a response, read it, realized I refuse to stoop to that level and delete it.  

The luxury of online anonymity....turns cowards into temporary lions.

I've had some lengthy discussions with MortalCoil and he really is just a wicked and evil human being. I think he's either a Muslim or atheist. I forget. But he is an unrepentant anti-Semite who would like nothing more than to see Israel eliminated from existence.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: MORTALCOIL on October 13, 2011, 08:31:08 AM
I've had some lengthy discussions with MortalCoil and he really is just a wicked and evil human being. I think he's either a Muslim or atheist. I forget. But he is an unrepentant anti-Semite who would like nothing more than to see Israel eliminated from existence.

You high, right? Anti-semite? Me? The only monotheism for which I do have respect is Judaism (and I won't even get into the many jewish authors I revere- Wittgenstein being at the top probably). Christians and Muslims on the other hand are shallow offsprings. And we never had lenghty discussions you and me. Thank God for that.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: viking1 on October 13, 2011, 08:33:42 AM
What a tragic nightmare for everyone. It really hits close to home, literally. It's gonna be awful when I see/hear the names of the victims...   we're all going to know somebody  :(

Their son has a tough road(and all family, friends involved)..    His mom is now dead and his "dad" killed her...  what a freaking nightmare.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 13, 2011, 08:34:53 AM
Mortacoil is a true piece of shit and I'd bet almost anything that in person he's a fucking coward and wouldn't say a word if he were standing right next to me....how I'd love to have him take me up on that.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: pellius on October 13, 2011, 08:35:57 AM
You high, right? Anti-semite? Me? The only monotheism for which I do have respect is Judaism (and I won't even get into the many jewish authors I revere- Wittgenstein being at the top probably). Christians and Muslims on the other hand are shallow offsprings. And we never had lenghty discussions you and me. Thank God for that.

Do you recognize Israel's right to exist as an independent Jewish State? Yes or no.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: MORTALCOIL on October 13, 2011, 08:37:18 AM
Do you recognize Israel's right to exist as an independent Jewish State? Yes or no.

Yes. Find one of my posts that says otherwise. Try it you liar. Let's see what's worse between someone mocking your (and Coach's) biggotry and a plain liar like you.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: MORTALCOIL on October 13, 2011, 08:39:49 AM
Mortacoil is a true piece of shit and I'd bet almost anything that in person he's a fucking coward and wouldn't say a word if he were standing right next to me....how I'd love to have him take me up on that.

Sure, I'm gonnay fly all the way from Paris to throw punches at a roided neo-con midget. It's not only sizewise that you haven't left kindergarten.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: pellius on October 13, 2011, 08:40:14 AM
Yes. Find one of my posts that says otherwise. Try it you liar. Let's see what's worse between someone mocking your (and Coach's) biggotry and a plain liar like you.

Then I have mistaken you for someone else.

Apologies.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: MORTALCOIL on October 13, 2011, 08:45:38 AM
Then I have mistaken you for someone else.

Apologies.

No harm done.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Disgusted on October 13, 2011, 08:55:45 AM
Very simple, carry a gun if you are able.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Max_Rep on October 13, 2011, 09:11:53 AM
Joe is that Lori hugging someone that I keep seeing on a news clip. They finally released your clients, mothers name this morning. 
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 13, 2011, 09:15:16 AM
Joe is that Lori hugging someone that I keep seeing on a news clip. They finally released your clients, mothers name this morning. 

Not sure, I haven't seen the clip. Where did you see the list of fatalities? I fear we might know others. I was a coach at Seal Beach Pony for 5 years and know many of the families.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: dr.chimps on October 13, 2011, 09:43:59 AM
Then I have mistaken you for someone else.

Apologies.
Good thing then you weren't carrying a gun. Monster act-first, repent-later-kind-of-vigilante personality.   ;)
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: James28 on October 13, 2011, 10:56:06 AM
Instead of praying why don't you do something more usefull like spend some time with the victims family and try to make them feel better. Prayer is useless and i find it somewhat insulting. It's like saying "please think about me or x person.... hmmm ok done... now lets go look at porn/getbig/spend time doing X destructive activity." Donate some time or charity. Do something other then think.

Very good post.

Kneeling down and whispering useless words into the wind which nobody will hear won't help. Donating your time to charity in their memory is the best homage you can pay.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Max_Rep on October 13, 2011, 11:58:11 AM
Not sure, I haven't seen the clip. Where did you see the list of fatalities? I fear we might know others. I was a coach at Seal Beach Pony for 5 years and know many of the families.

I saw a newscast that just named your client say that she had confirmed her mother Michelle Fast was one of the victims. They said that Randy Fannin, the shop owner was confirmed dead by a family member. They said Seal Beach police have not released names of other victims. I saw yet another report that said named the scumbags ex-wife’s Michelle Fournier Dekraai and said she was believed to be in the shop but they weren’t confirming her status. That’s actually 3 people named but not confirmed dead (including Michelle Fast).
 
It’s hard not to wish a slow-painful torturous death on this POS that lasts 40 days and 40 nights.

I've seen the clip I mentioned a few times now on TV newscasts.

About prayer... prayer is not that this gets undone... it's that the victims are with the Lord and about healing for friends, family and community. Not preaching -- just my belief. By the way some of us who pray ALSO do, do things that contribute as well.

Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 13, 2011, 12:08:09 PM
Thanks David, I just heard Michelle's (Fast) name on the KCAL9 news. This is tough.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: pellius on October 13, 2011, 12:33:28 PM
Good thing then you weren't carrying a gun. Monster act-first, repent-later-kind-of-vigilante personality.   ;)

ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS!!!???

You are equating confusing the various personalities on this board with confusing whether or not someone open fires and starts shooting people is a bad guy? SERIOUSLY?

Let me ask you something. Say after your home was broken into and robbed and your wife and daughter and raped as you watched helplessly and meekly because you didn't believe in preparing yourself for defense. Then you decide to man up and realize part of the duty of a man is to be willing and able to protect himself and his family so you buy a gun and get the same exact training that a police officer would get.

You are now armed with your Glock 22 and happen to be in that salon where a man whips out a handgun and starts shooting people. What would you do?
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: dr.chimps on October 13, 2011, 01:35:27 PM
ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS!!!???

You are equating confusing the various personalities on this board with confusing whether or not someone open fires and starts shooting people is a bad guy? SERIOUSLY?

Let me ask you something. Say after your home was broken into and robbed and your wife and daughter and raped as you watched helplessly and meekly because you didn't believe in preparing yourself for defense. Then you decide to man up and realize part of the duty of a man is to be willing and able to protect himself and his family so you buy a gun and get the same exact training that a police officer would get.

You are now armed with your Glock 22 and happen to be in that salon where a man whips out a handgun and starts shooting people. What would you do?
Guess you missed the emoticon. And your storyline is so preposterously unlikely as to be ridiculous.  :-\
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 13, 2011, 02:30:13 PM
Legalize conceled weapons to law abiding citizens. Unless they are suicidal or truely crazy, it might make people think twice about their actions. They wouldn't know who was carrying and who isn't.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Wiggs on October 13, 2011, 02:31:53 PM
Legalize conceled weapons to law abiding citizens. Unless they are suicidal or truely crazy, it might make people think twice about their actions. They wouldn't know who was carrying and who isn't.

Here in Nevada you can get a conceled weapons permit for here and 33 other states as long as you have no felonies...I have one...All Americans should IMO
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: tbombz on October 13, 2011, 02:37:14 PM
deaths caused by firearms? whats the solution? more firearms of course!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: deadz on October 13, 2011, 02:37:43 PM
Just another day in America.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: dr.chimps on October 13, 2011, 02:40:34 PM
Legalize conceled weapons to law abiding citizens. Unless they are suicidal or truely crazy, it might make people think twice about their actions. They wouldn't know who was carrying and who isn't.
Good idea, Coach. And how do you screen for these!? You can't.   :-\
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: pellius on October 13, 2011, 02:44:02 PM
Guess you missed the emoticon. And your storyline is so preposterously unlikely as to be ridiculous.  :-\

You do not think home invasions take place? There is a case going on right now in Connecticut where the only survivor was the father/husband.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2011-10-13/connecticut-home-invasion-trial/50757076/1

 You do not think there have been cases where someone pulled a gun and was thwarted by an armed citizen? But forget about whether you think it is unlikely. Just answer the question. You always avoid moral questions when it is posed directly like this. Where you, yourself, are put on the line. Your beliefs are put to the test.

Humor me. Play pretend. Answer the question. I always answer any moral dilemma posed to me. I am very secure in my moral foundation. And if I am proved wrong then I am grateful because I would have learned something making me a more wiser and morally clear person.

Answer the question, Dr. Chimps.

NEW HAVEN, Conn. (AP) – A man was convicted Thursday of murdering a woman and her two daughters in a gruesome 2007 home invasion in which family members were tied up, molested, doused in gas and left to die in a fire. He now faces a possible death sentence.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: pellius on October 13, 2011, 02:45:02 PM
Legalize conceled weapons to law abiding citizens. Unless they are suicidal or truely crazy, it might make people think twice about their actions. They wouldn't know who was carrying and who isn't.

Same backgroud check and basic training that allows police officers to carry firearms both on and off duty.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: CARTEL on October 13, 2011, 02:49:05 PM
deaths caused by firearms homicidal dirt bag? whats the solution? more Firearms of course!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fixed
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: pellius on October 13, 2011, 02:51:17 PM
deaths caused by firearms? whats the solution? more firearms of course!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In regard to gun ownership there are only four possible scenarios.

1. Nobody owns a gun. Nobody. Even police officers.
2. Everybody owns a gun.
3. Good people owns guns bad people do not.
4. Bad people owns guns good people do not.

Now forget for the moment, for the sake of argument, whether or not these are real possibilities. In your ideal scenario in today's world which would you choose?

Anybody else, you too Coach, feel free to comment. In today's world what would be you ideal scenario? Whether or not any of these are real possibilities is another issue entirely and will be address.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: pellius on October 13, 2011, 02:52:34 PM
Good idea, Coach. And how do you screen for these!? You can't.   :-\

Sure we do. It is done twice a year all through out the country at our police academies.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: dr.chimps on October 13, 2011, 03:01:31 PM
You do not think home invasions take place? There is a case going on right now in Connecticut where the only survivor was the father/husband.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2011-10-13/connecticut-home-invasion-trial/50757076/1

 You do not think there have been cases where someone pulled a gun and was thwarted by an armed citizen? But forget about whether you think it is unlikely. Just answer the question. You always avoid moral questions when it is posed directly like this. Where you, yourself, are put on the line. Your beliefs are put to the test.

Humor me. Play pretend. Answer the question. I always answer any moral dilemma posed to me. I am very secure in my moral foundation. And if I am proved wrong then I am grateful because I would have learned something making me a more wiser and morally clear person.

Answer the question, Dr. Chimps.

NEW HAVEN, Conn. (AP) – A man was convicted Thursday of murdering a woman and her two daughters in a gruesome 2007 home invasion in which family members were tied up, molested, doused in gas and left to die in a fire. He now faces a possible death sentence.
OK. I'll go along with your lottery-odds scenario. I would pull my H&K and gun the farker down as fast as an old West gunfighter. Sounds silly, doesn't it? Look, despite all your hysteria, and calls to some Homeric macho response, violent crime levels have fallen, and continue to fall, for now almost 20 years. You want to generalize from anecdotal examples like the one Coach cited, fine. I understand, it's human nature. I do it, too. Violence is part of our nature, that's a given, but the lurid examples you cite would occur at such a statistically insignificantly level that 'preparing' for them would be useless.      


/and i always ignore directly posed moral questions!? my beliefs are put to the test!? nice try, but, oh so clumsy. maybe try suckmymuscle?  ;D  
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on October 13, 2011, 03:08:58 PM
deaths caused by firearms? whats the solution? more firearms of course!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No we need less firearms that's the solution  ::)

a person with a concealed carry weapon could have saved people's lives in this situation , couldn't have prevented what happened but could have minimized the damage , you can't stop this type of behavior , you can't legislate it out of existence you can't wish it out either

It's like these feel good laws like ' gun free school zones ' which accomplish nothing other than having legitimate gun owners bared from carrying on school property and wont prevent a single kid/man from going to a school to inflict damage with a gun because at this point they aren't following laws

It's a sad commentary that we have to live like this but it is what it is , in these desperate times unfortunately you have to fight fire with fire.  
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: pellius on October 13, 2011, 03:12:16 PM
OK. I'll go along with your lottery-odds scenario. I would pull my H&K and gun the farker down as fast as an old West gunfighter. Sounds silly, doesn't it? Look, despite all your hysteria, and calls to some Homeric macho response, violent crime levels have fallen, and continue to fall, for now almost 20 years. You want to generalize from anecdotal examples like the one Coach cited, fine. I understand, it's human nature. I do it, too. Violence is part of our nature, that's a given, but the lurid examples you cite would occur at such a statistically insignificantly level that 'preparing' for them would be useless.      


/and i always ignore directly posed moral questions!? my beliefs are put to the test!? nice try, but, oh so clumsy. maybe try suckmymuscle?  ;D  

No it is not silly. And it's not lottery odds scenario when a gun was use to prevent a violent crime. You just don't hear about in the main stream media because it doesn't suit their agenda.

And whether or not crime has gone down is irrelevant. It's still too high for my taste. How about you?

And you really believe that defending yourself against a craze killer are "calls to some Homeric macho response"?

You may consider a craze gunman gunning down innocent people "statistically insignificantly" but there are some people that got up this morning who's lives will never be the same that would beg to differ.

And it wasn't clumsy. I just made that up so that I could be sure you'd answer.
  
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: dr.chimps on October 13, 2011, 03:14:17 PM
Sure we do. It is done twice a year all through out the country at our police academies.
Not impressed. Suicide, especially for males, is almost always hidden, and those that are 'crazy' (certainly not a medical term) can be masked with other pathological traits, particularly socially dominant ones. Oh, and the  levels of stress, alcoholism, poor marriage success, and suicide rates for police? Not good. Play baseball with a lot of cops and corrections officers...the stories, the stories.  
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: dr.chimps on October 13, 2011, 03:23:32 PM
No it is not silly. And it's not lottery odds scenario when a gun was use to prevent a violent crime. You just don't hear about in the main stream media because it doesn't suit their agenda.

And whether or not crime has gone down is irrelevant. It's still too high for my taste. How about you?

And you really believe that defending yourself against a craze killer are "calls to some Homeric macho response"?

You may consider a craze gunman gunning down innocent people "statistically insignificantly" but there are some people that got up this morning who's lives will never be the same that would beg to differ.

And it wasn't clumsy. I just made that up so that I could be sure you'd answer.
Look, commit a crime, do the time. I have no problem with that. Punish the bad guys/gals to the full extent of the law - excellent! I'm not naive, nor am I apologetic about such horrid events. However, I don't play the race game like 3.14, nor do I believe in the death penalty, which doesn't work on any level except for the need for a sense of society revenge.  We live in the violence/crime-'freest' times in known history - let's just try to keep some perspective, is all I'm saying. 
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: pellius on October 13, 2011, 03:31:42 PM
Not impressed. Suicide, especially for males, is almost always hidden, and those that are 'crazy' (certainly not a medical term) can be masked with other pathological traits, particularly socially dominant ones. Oh, and the  levels of stress, alcoholism, poor marriage success, and suicide rates for police? Not good. Play baseball with a lot of cops and corrections officers...the stories, the stories.  

I'm not sure I understand your point. Coach was essentially making a point that qualified people should be allowed to carry firearms. You replied how do we do that. My response is that we already do. Are you implying that policemen should not be allowed to carry firearms.

And don't flatter yourself. I am not trying to impress you. I come from a different perspective when it comes to moral issues. I truly want to know what is right. How do we make good people? How do I become a good person? I have a vested interest in knowing what is right and good? So I welcome any and challenges because it doesn't matter to me if I am proved right or wrong. If I'm no one can refute me that it reinforces my belief that I am on the right track. If I am proven wrong then I am a wiser and better person. And like I said, I have a vested interest to being on the right path. You seem more concerned with just winning an argument or debate.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Ursus on October 13, 2011, 03:33:55 PM
Religion seems to rile athiests up no end!
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 13, 2011, 03:35:13 PM
It absolutely does.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on October 13, 2011, 03:38:36 PM
Religion seems to rile athiests up no end!

Yeah it does and what a great time we live in where we can criticize it without fear of reprisals from the Church

 
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on October 13, 2011, 03:40:11 PM
It absolutely does.

With good reason , religion is offensive , outdated and obnoxious.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 13, 2011, 03:42:58 PM
Aww, well that's just too bad isn't it?
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Ursus on October 13, 2011, 03:46:12 PM
I do not go round getting wound up at athiests yet they seem pretty annoyed at me privately expressing my beliefs in a secluded building with other like minded people.

Crazy!
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on October 13, 2011, 03:46:56 PM
Aww, well that's just too bad isn't it?

Not really , it's a great time you can publicly mock your absurd beliefs and not have to worry about being labeled a heretic , or a witch and suffer the consequences for it


Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: pellius on October 13, 2011, 03:49:51 PM
Look, commit a crime, do the time. I have no problem with that. Punish the bad guys/gals to the full extent of the law - excellent! I'm not naive, nor am I apologetic about such horrid events. However, I don't play the race game like 3.14, nor do I believe in the death penalty, which doesn't work on any level except for the need for a sense of society revenge.  We live in the violence/crime-'freest' times in known history - let's just try to keep some perspective, is all I'm saying. 

I'm not sure what you mean about the "race game" in regard this incident. Or what you mean by "Playing it."

You believe in punishment don't you? You just stated that you did? Why? Because it is a deterrent. That's obvious. And it should be obvious that the harsher the punishment the bigger the deterrent. Any given infraction would be viewed quite differently if the consequence was a literal slap on the hand, or getting your hand chopped off.

What's worse? Life in prison or death? I know some claim it's life in prison even though most everyone sentence to the death penalty fight for their lives to get off death row. What if we say that if you murder someone on odd days of the month the most you can get is life in prison and if you murder someone on even days you will get the death penalty.

Of course getting the death penalty in the US court system is quite different than getting the death penalty from the Mexican Mafia. The latter is a bit more prompt in carrying out their sentence and therefore far more effective.  

Death, in it's finality, therein lies it deterrence. And virtually all punishment is a form of retribution, i.e., punishment.

I'll give you some arguments for the death penalty but I think we are high jacking Coach's thread. But it is important and related to this thread because it addresses the very real issue of how do we reduce incidences like these. These shoot outs, use to be called "going postal" because it all started in the late 1980s early 1990s when people started shooting up innocent people seem to come disproportionately from those working for the USPS. This is a very recent phenomenon. And there's a reason for it.

If it's OK with Coach to use this thread to discuss issues like gun control, death penalty, deterrence, crime and punishment then I'll wait for his permission. I'm already late but will check back later.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: pellius on October 13, 2011, 03:52:55 PM
I do not go round getting wound up at athiests yet they seem pretty annoyed at me privately expressing my beliefs in a secluded building with other like minded people.

Crazy!

You are secure in your beliefs. You are secure in the fact that there are others that differ from you. In general, the contrast between a believer and a non believer is glaring and speaks volumes on where a person's heart lies. That one considers it a "great time" in mocking others that differ from them.

You're a good man, Ursus. I've always considered you one of the more decent people on this board and I believe it is because of your religiosity.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on October 13, 2011, 03:53:09 PM
I do not go round getting wound up at athiests yet they seem pretty annoyed at me privately expressing my beliefs in a secluded building with other like minded people.

Crazy!

Nope you have atheists all wrong , I can only speak for myself , however I feel I can speak for a lot of atheists that you have the freedom to believe what ever fairy tale you'd like in the privacy of your own home , place of worship

Yet we ( I'm taking some liberties here ) get annoyed when YOU people push your religion on the rest of us and the rest of society , in the forms of laws that prevent stem cell research , gay marriage , teaching pseudoscience in our schools ( creationsism ) , trying to pass laws that interject your religious garbage onto the rest of society

Keep your fairy tale to yourself and we've got no problems.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: The True Adonis on October 13, 2011, 03:54:20 PM
Grandpappy told my pappy, back in my day, son
A man had to answer for the wicked that he done
Take all the rope in Texas
Find a tall oak tree, round up all of them bad boys
Hang them high in the street for all the people to see
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Coach is Back! on October 13, 2011, 03:59:28 PM
Do what you gotta do ND it only makes us stronger and makes you people look like idiots.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on October 13, 2011, 04:00:38 PM
You are secure in your beliefs. You are secure in the fact that there are others that differ from you. In general, the contrast between a believer and a non believer is glaring and speaks volumes on where a person's heart lies.

Christians in particular are like vegetarians , they just can't be happy with their decision they have to force it on everyone else

If your religion was all it was cracked up to be it would be content that it's the right philosophy and let people find it on their own but then again it has a long history of forced conversions of many indigenous peoples , that speaks volumes on where their heart lies , the great thing is they can't get away with that anymore.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Ursus on October 13, 2011, 04:02:06 PM
Nope you have atheists all wrong , I can only speak for myself , however I feel I can speak for a lot of atheists that you have the freedom to believe what ever fairy tale you'd like in the privacy of your own home , place of worship

Yet we ( I'm taking some liberties here ) get annoyed when YOU people push your religion on the rest of us and the rest of society , in the forms of laws that prevent stem cell research , gay marriage , teaching pseudoscience in our schools ( creationsism ) , trying to pass laws that interject your religious garbage onto the rest of society

Keep your fairy tale to yourself and we've got no problems.

I went to a Roman Catholic school therefore was with other like minded people. Did you know that faith schools have been shown to educate to a much higher standard - surely thats a good thing!

I force my religion on no one. Religion is a personal thing for me not something that you scream and shout about.

You are wrong about me and my faith. Gay marrige does not bother me. Nor do people who believe in creationism in its most literal form. Simply because I do not believe something does not mean I get offended when others do.

My religion should offend no one unless they go looking and try to take offence. I do not force my religion on anyone - not my friends or family

Thank you Pellius!
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: dr.chimps on October 13, 2011, 04:03:05 PM
I'm not sure I understand your point. Coach was essentially making a point that qualified people should be allowed to carry firearms. You replied how do we do that. My response is that we already do. Are you implying that policemen should not be allowed to carry firearms.

And don't flatter yourself. I am not trying to impress you. I come from a different perspective when it comes to moral issues. I truly want to know what is right. How do we make good people? How do I become a good person? I have a vested interest in knowing what is right and good? So I welcome any and challenges because it doesn't matter to me if I am proved right or wrong. If I'm no one can refute me that it reinforces my belief that I am on the right track. If I am proven wrong then I am a wiser and better person. And like I said, I have a vested interest to being on the right path. You seem more concerned with just winning an argument or debate.

Hmm. You interpolate far too much. My point regarding Coach's post was that we can make efforts, towards being 'qualified,' like a police force, but trying to 'qualify' morality or sanity is no guarantee against future horrifics. To think otherwise, would be fool-hardy.

And, I only flatter myself self-deprecatingly, and I never (rarely, is more likely) look to impress. My writing style sometimes suggest this, tho. Please excuse this. As to morality, being proved right or wrong, or  or winning or losing an argumnet or debate, as you say, is philosophically interesting but, ultimately, illusory. Each of us, every one of us, is at any one time capable of the utmost evil as well as grace. You can't 'make' good people, nor can you, yourself, have a 'vested' interest in 'good' anymore than you can in 'evil.' I'm not a religious person, as you might have surmised, but I ran into someone years back (who is [was/now dead] a religious figure) who told me 'We're all unredeemed sinners...so try not to be c*nty all the time.' You could do worse.  :)
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: dr.chimps on October 13, 2011, 04:04:19 PM
I do not go round getting wound up at athiests yet they seem pretty annoyed at me privately expressing my beliefs in a secluded building with other like minded people.

Crazy!
Then, they are not worth your effort getting wound up.  :)

Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Ursus on October 13, 2011, 04:04:56 PM
Then, they are not worth your effort getting wound up.  :)



Agreed!
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: pellius on October 13, 2011, 04:06:07 PM
Grandpappy told my pappy, back in my day, son
A man had to answer for the wicked that he done
Take all the rope in Texas
Find a tall oak tree, round up all of them bad boys
Hang them high in the street for all the people to see

I'm glad you are on this thread because at least you will take on a challenge. Do you believe in private gun ownership? Do you believe, in general, that all else being equal, being a religious person will make you more likely to be good than being an atheist or someone without any values system outside of themselves in which they are held accountable to. Also, I post a question to Tbombz earlier on this thread about the various scenarios with regard to gun ownership and challenge anyone to give their views. People generally balk at this because they think it's some kind of trick. If you are sincere and secure in your beliefs you cannot be tricked.

Now I'm really late
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on October 13, 2011, 04:07:29 PM
Do what you gotta do ND it only makes us stronger and makes you people look like idiots.

It doesn't make you stronger , it highlights the ridiculousness of your belief , and you talk about looking like an idiot? it would be to simple to highlight all the things that make believers look like idiots but you get the point.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: dr.chimps on October 13, 2011, 04:13:54 PM
I'm not sure what you mean about the "race game" in regard this incident. Or what you mean by "Playing it."

You believe in punishment don't you? You just stated that you did? Why? Because it is a deterrent. That's obvious. And it should be obvious that the harsher the punishment the bigger the deterrent. Any given infraction would be viewed quite differently if the consequence was a literal slap on the hand, or getting your hand chopped off.

What's worse? Life in prison or death? I know some claim it's life in prison even though most everyone sentence to the death penalty fight for their lives to get off death row. What if we say that if you murder someone on odd days of the month the most you can get is life in prison and if you murder someone on even days you will get the death penalty.

Of course getting the death penalty in the US court system is quite different than getting the death penalty from the Mexican Mafia. The latter is a bit more prompt in carrying out their sentence and therefore far more effective.  

Death, in it's finality, therein lies it deterrence. And virtually all punishment is a form of retribution, i.e., punishment.

I'll give you some arguments for the death penalty but I think we are high jacking Coach's thread. But it is important and related to this thread because it addresses the very real issue of how do we reduce incidences like these. These shoot outs, use to be called "going postal" because it all started in the late 1980s early 1990s when people started shooting up innocent people seem to come disproportionately from those working for the USPS. This is a very recent phenomenon. And there's a reason for it.

If it's OK with Coach to use this thread to discuss issues like gun control, death penalty, deterrence, crime and punishment then I'll wait for his permission. I'm already late but will check back later.
You know exactly what I'm referring to when I mention 3.14 and race.

The death penalty has been shown in study after study, across nationalities, to serve as no deterrence to violent crime. None. And really, prison is no deterrent either - it's now a super, big business, and just puts bad people away and out of sight.    
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on October 13, 2011, 04:17:18 PM
I went to a Roman Catholic school therefore was with other like minded people. Did you know that faith schools have been shown to educate to a much higher standard - surely thats a good thing!


I force my religion on no one. Religion is a personal thing for me not something that you scream and shout about.


You are wrong about me and my faith. Gay marrige does not bother me. Nor do people who believe in creationism in its most literal form. Simply because I do not believe something does not mean I get offended when others do.

My religion should offend no one unless they go looking and try to take offence. I do not force my religion on anyone - not my friends or family

Thank you Pellius!

Quote
I went to a Roman Catholic school therefore was with other like minded people. Did you know that faith schools have been shown to educate to a much higher standard - surely thats a good thing!

educate to a higher standard by denying evolution and the scientific method? You and I have a very different definition of the term ' higher standard '

Quote
I force my religion on no one. Religion is a personal thing for me not something that you scream and shout about.

Your religion forces it's self on everyone it can , although they feel they are the ones now under attack  ::) your religion is the problem if you don't force your point of view on the rest of us then more power to you , I have no problem with you

Quote
You are wrong about me and my faith. Gay marrige does not bother me. Nor do people who believe in creationism in its most literal form. Simply because I do not believe something does not mean I get offended when others do.

I'm glad you can think for yourself about gay marriage , and I have no problem with people believing something I don't , the offense if when they try and push it on others , like prayer in public school ( which anyone can do anyway under their breaths , or out loud in recess ) like trying to get equal time for ' intelligent design ' , preventing stem cell research , abortion , etc ,

This behavior offends me , believe your fairy tales all you'd like when you try and make them public policy and force them on the rest of us , is what I hate

Quote
My religion should offend no one unless they go looking and try to take offence. I do not force my religion on anyone - not my friends or family

Wrong again , your religion is offensive when it's attempting to dictate how others live , you personally aren't pushing it but your religion is as previously stated.

Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: tbombz on October 13, 2011, 04:24:50 PM
In regard to gun ownership there are only four possible scenarios.

1. Nobody owns a gun. Nobody. Even police officers.
2. Everybody owns a gun.

3. Good people owns guns bad people do not.
4. Bad people owns guns good people do not.

Now forget for the moment, for the sake of argument, whether or not these are real possibilities. In your ideal scenario in today's world which would you choose?

Anybody else, you too Coach, feel free to comment. In today's world what would be you ideal scenario? Whether or not any of these are real possibilities is another issue entirely and will be address.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: #1 Klaus fan on October 13, 2011, 04:36:33 PM
Here in Nevada you can get a conceled weapons permit for here and 33 other states as long as you have no felonies...I have one...All Americans should IMO

And those who were stopped by the police for speeding 30 years ago deserve to get a shotgun shot to the head in execution style. Don't you understand they are just controlling you with this system?
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: The True Adonis on October 13, 2011, 04:41:13 PM
You know exactly what I'm referring to when I mention 3.14 and race.

The death penalty has been shown in study after study, across nationalities, to serve as no deterrence to violent crime. None. And really, prison is no deterrent either - it's now a super, big business, and just puts bad people away and out of sight.    
I don`t agree with the Death Penalty, however I think there are certain cases, such as this when guilt is clear that it can be implemented swiftly.  I am aware of the costs of the appeals and a Capital Trial, however these can be lowered for cases such as these and the firing squad can be ready by the end of the month.  What use does this shitbag have sitting in Prison wasting 50-800 grand plus of the taxpayers money (cost of incarceration depending on how long he lives).  There is nothing to be gained here and he revoked his right to live by taking down nine others.

Also, Prison does separate the animals from the rest of us, but what else is there to do with them?  I favor work camps, chain gang type labor for these people, let them pay for their crimes by fixing things for the society they chose to turn their backs on.  Letting all of them sit in cells does not do us any good and its quite the waste of money.

Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Ursus on October 13, 2011, 04:45:14 PM
FYI my school did not deny evolution at all  In religion I remember learning about the Big Bang Theory etc

Whether you believe religion or not or view it as far fetched as LOTR if you learned the stories and regurgatated it in exams whether or not you believed it and done well it counted as a qualification!

How am I forcing my religion on others?

A personal opinion I have on abortion is that often it is carried out too late when pretty much for all intents and purposes it is a little human - It is more moral issue killing something that looks so much like a human being. Not religion based at all for me personally.

Like I said before any way I went to a Roman Catholic Grammar School - ie it was for Roman Catholics mainly. In integrated schools no religion is taught or if it is it is a general overview of all religions etc.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Max_Rep on October 13, 2011, 04:49:14 PM
How about taking these stupid debates to another thread and give the victims some respect.

Another Victim Identified

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/10/seal-beach-shooting-christy-wilson.html  

Seal Beach shooting: Victim testified for suspect's ex-wife

October 13, 2011 |  2:32 pm
 
Friends identified another victim of the Seal Beach shooting rampage as Christy Wilson, a lifelong Lakewood resident and mother of three who worked at the salon.

Linda Stewart, 45, a longtime friend who works at a salon in Huntington Beach, said Wilson was creative, energetic and friendly and was part of a close-knit family. She had worked at the salon for many years and was an expert nail artist. In her spare time, she made and sold jewelry.

"She was everybody's friend," Stewart said. "She had not one enemy, ever."

Wilson was a friend of Michelle Fournier, the ex-wife of alleged shooter Scott Evans Dekraai. Witnesses said Fournier was the target of the shooting and one of the eight who died.

KTLA News reported Wilson was in court on Tuesday, testifying at a custody hearing on Fournier's behalf. Her husband, Paul Wilson, said his wife stood up for her friend because she thought it was the right thing to do.

On Thursday, Stewart put out a call on her Facebook page for people to give gifts of food to the Wilson family, but within a few hours, she was so overwhelmed by responses that she began asking people to donate to the funeral costs instead. She said she is now considering starting a jewelry line in Wilson's honor, with proceeds to go to assist victims of domestic violence.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Mr. Magoo on October 13, 2011, 04:51:07 PM
How about taking these stupid debates to another thread and give the victims some respect.

I agree with this.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: dr.chimps on October 13, 2011, 04:51:21 PM
I don`t agree with the Death Penalty, however I think there are certain cases, such as this when guilt is clear that it can be implemented swiftly.  I am aware of the costs of the appeals and a Capital Trial, however these can be lowered for cases such as these and the firing squad can be ready by the end of the month.  What use does this shitbag have sitting in Prison wasting 50-800 grand plus of the taxpayers money (cost of incarceration depending on how long he lives).  There is nothing to be gained here and he revoked his right to live by taking down nine others.

Also, Prison does separate the animals from the rest of us, but what else is there to do with them?  I favor work camps, chain gang type labor for these people, let them pay for their crimes by fixing things for the society they chose to turn their backs on.  Letting all of them sit in cells does not do us any good and its quite the waste of money.
There certainly have been exceptions -ie. when the defendent pleads guilty and waives all rights and asks for the death penalty. Very, very rare. And death by firing squad is still only on the books in Oklahoma, Gary Gilmore history, aside. And no, having a death penalty inmate in and among, or killed by the general population, has long been known to be verboten. The state/union must exact it's revenge.  

Very costly, very lengthy, very stupid, and yet very, very popular among the voting public is the death penalty.
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: Ursus on October 13, 2011, 04:52:00 PM
How about taking these stupid debates to another thread and give the victims some respect.

Another Victim Identified

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/10/seal-beach-shooting-christy-wilson.html  

Seal Beach shooting: Victim testified for suspect's ex-wife

October 13, 2011 |  2:32 pm
 
Friends identified another victim of the Seal Beach shooting rampage as Christy Wilson, a lifelong Lakewood resident and mother of three who worked at the salon.

Linda Stewart, 45, a longtime friend who works at a salon in Huntington Beach, said Wilson was creative, energetic and friendly and was part of a close-knit family. She had worked at the salon for many years and was an expert nail artist. In her spare time, she made and sold jewelry.

"She was everybody's friend," Stewart said. "She had not one enemy, ever."

Wilson was a friend of Michelle Fournier, the ex-wife of alleged shooter Scott Evans Dekraai. Witnesses said Fournier was the target of the shooting and one of the eight who died.

KTLA News reported Wilson was in court on Tuesday, testifying at a custody hearing on Fournier's behalf. Her husband, Paul Wilson, said his wife stood up for her friend because she thought it was the right thing to do.

On Thursday, Stewart put out a call on her Facebook page for people to give gifts of food to the Wilson family, but within a few hours, she was so overwhelmed by responses that she began asking people to donate to the funeral costs instead. She said she is now considering starting a jewelry line in Wilson's honor, with proceeds to go to assist victims of domestic violence.

Why not lock the thread?
Title: Re: For Those Who Pray
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on October 13, 2011, 04:52:35 PM
FYI my school did not deny evolution at all  In religion I remember learning about the Big Bang Theory etc

Whether you believe religion or not or view it as far fetched as LOTR if you learned the stories and regurgatated it in exams whether or not you believed it and done well it counted as a qualification!

How am I forcing my religion on others?

A personal opinion I have on abortion is that often it is carried out too late when pretty much for all intents and purposes it is a little human - It is more moral issue killing something that looks so much like a human being. Not religion based at all for me personally.

Like I said before any way I went to a Roman Catholic Grammar School - ie it was for Roman Catholics mainly. In integrated schools no religion is taught or if it is it is a general overview of all religions etc.

My bad , I forgot that the Pope endorses evolution and the Big bang

I agree that you personally aren't forcing your religion on people but they are

I don't agree with abortion ( I have three children ) but I'm all for people who want to get them and I agree that there is a point of no return

Like I said I don't care who believes what until they start trying to dictate their beliefs as public policy or effects me in anyway