For Those Who Pray

[Coach is Back!]

Thanks David, I just heard Michelle's (Fast) name on the KCAL9 news. This is tough.

[pellius]

Good thing then you weren't carrying a gun. Monster act-first, repent-later-kind-of-vigilante personality.   

ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS!!!???

You are equating confusing the various personalities on this board with confusing whether or not someone open fires and starts shooting people is a bad guy? SERIOUSLY?

Let me ask you something. Say after your home was broken into and robbed and your wife and daughter and raped as you watched helplessly and meekly because you didn't believe in preparing yourself for defense. Then you decide to man up and realize part of the duty of a man is to be willing and able to protect himself and his family so you buy a gun and get the same exact training that a police officer would get.

You are now armed with your Glock 22 and happen to be in that salon where a man whips out a handgun and starts shooting people. What would you do?

[dr.chimps]

ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS!!!???

You are equating confusing the various personalities on this board with confusing whether or not someone open fires and starts shooting people is a bad guy? SERIOUSLY?

Let me ask you something. Say after your home was broken into and robbed and your wife and daughter and raped as you watched helplessly and meekly because you didn't believe in preparing yourself for defense. Then you decide to man up and realize part of the duty of a man is to be willing and able to protect himself and his family so you buy a gun and get the same exact training that a police officer would get.

You are now armed with your Glock 22 and happen to be in that salon where a man whips out a handgun and starts shooting people. What would you do?

Guess you missed the emoticon. And your storyline is so preposterously unlikely as to be ridiculous. 

[Coach is Back!]

Legalize conceled weapons to law abiding citizens. Unless they are suicidal or truely crazy, it might make people think twice about their actions. They wouldn't know who was carrying and who isn't.

[Wiggs]

Legalize conceled weapons to law abiding citizens. Unless they are suicidal or truely crazy, it might make people think twice about their actions. They wouldn't know who was carrying and who isn't.

Here in Nevada you can get a conceled weapons permit for here and 33 other states as long as you have no felonies...I have one...All Americans should IMO

[tbombz]

deaths caused by firearms? whats the solution? more firearms of course!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[deadz]

Just another day in America.

[dr.chimps]

Legalize conceled weapons to law abiding citizens. Unless they are suicidal or truely crazy, it might make people think twice about their actions. They wouldn't know who was carrying and who isn't.

Good idea, Coach. And how do you screen for these!? You can't.   

[pellius]

Guess you missed the emoticon. And your storyline is so preposterously unlikely as to be ridiculous. 

You do not think home invasions take place? There is a case going on right now in Connecticut where the only survivor was the father/husband.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2011-10-13/connecticut-home-invasion-trial/50757076/1

 You do not think there have been cases where someone pulled a gun and was thwarted by an armed citizen? But forget about whether you think it is unlikely. Just answer the question. You always avoid moral questions when it is posed directly like this. Where you, yourself, are put on the line. Your beliefs are put to the test.

Humor me. Play pretend. Answer the question. I always answer any moral dilemma posed to me. I am very secure in my moral foundation. And if I am proved wrong then I am grateful because I would have learned something making me a more wiser and morally clear person.

Answer the question, Dr. Chimps.

NEW HAVEN, Conn. (AP) – A man was convicted Thursday of murdering a woman and her two daughters in a gruesome 2007 home invasion in which family members were tied up, molested, doused in gas and left to die in a fire. He now faces a possible death sentence.

[pellius]

Legalize conceled weapons to law abiding citizens. Unless they are suicidal or truely crazy, it might make people think twice about their actions. They wouldn't know who was carrying and who isn't.

Same backgroud check and basic training that allows police officers to carry firearms both on and off duty.

[CARTEL]

deaths caused by firearms homicidal dirt bag? whats the solution? more Firearms of course!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fixed

[pellius]

deaths caused by firearms? whats the solution? more firearms of course!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In regard to gun ownership there are only four possible scenarios.

1. Nobody owns a gun. Nobody. Even police officers.
2. Everybody owns a gun.
3. Good people owns guns bad people do not.
4. Bad people owns guns good people do not.

Now forget for the moment, for the sake of argument, whether or not these are real possibilities. In your ideal scenario in today's world which would you choose?

Anybody else, you too Coach, feel free to comment. In today's world what would be you ideal scenario? Whether or not any of these are real possibilities is another issue entirely and will be address.

[pellius]

Good idea, Coach. And how do you screen for these!? You can't.   

Sure we do. It is done twice a year all through out the country at our police academies.

[dr.chimps]

You do not think home invasions take place? There is a case going on right now in Connecticut where the only survivor was the father/husband.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2011-10-13/connecticut-home-invasion-trial/50757076/1

 You do not think there have been cases where someone pulled a gun and was thwarted by an armed citizen? But forget about whether you think it is unlikely. Just answer the question. You always avoid moral questions when it is posed directly like this. Where you, yourself, are put on the line. Your beliefs are put to the test.

Humor me. Play pretend. Answer the question. I always answer any moral dilemma posed to me. I am very secure in my moral foundation. And if I am proved wrong then I am grateful because I would have learned something making me a more wiser and morally clear person.

Answer the question, Dr. Chimps.

NEW HAVEN, Conn. (AP) – A man was convicted Thursday of murdering a woman and her two daughters in a gruesome 2007 home invasion in which family members were tied up, molested, doused in gas and left to die in a fire. He now faces a possible death sentence.

OK. I'll go along with your lottery-odds scenario. I would pull my H&K and gun the farker down as fast as an old West gunfighter. Sounds silly, doesn't it? Look, despite all your hysteria, and calls to some Homeric macho response, violent crime levels have fallen, and continue to fall, for now almost 20 years. You want to generalize from anecdotal examples like the one Coach cited, fine. I understand, it's human nature. I do it, too. Violence is part of our nature, that's a given, but the lurid examples you cite would occur at such a statistically insignificantly level that 'preparing' for them would be useless.      


/and i always ignore directly posed moral questions!? my beliefs are put to the test!? nice try, but, oh so clumsy. maybe try suckmymuscle?    

[NarcissisticDeity]

deaths caused by firearms? whats the solution? more firearms of course!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No we need less firearms that's the solution  

a person with a concealed carry weapon could have saved people's lives in this situation , couldn't have prevented what happened but could have minimized the damage , you can't stop this type of behavior , you can't legislate it out of existence you can't wish it out either

It's like these feel good laws like ' gun free school zones ' which accomplish nothing other than having legitimate gun owners bared from carrying on school property and wont prevent a single kid/man from going to a school to inflict damage with a gun because at this point they aren't following laws

It's a sad commentary that we have to live like this but it is what it is , in these desperate times unfortunately you have to fight fire with fire.  

[pellius]

OK. I'll go along with your lottery-odds scenario. I would pull my H&K and gun the farker down as fast as an old West gunfighter. Sounds silly, doesn't it? Look, despite all your hysteria, and calls to some Homeric macho response, violent crime levels have fallen, and continue to fall, for now almost 20 years. You want to generalize from anecdotal examples like the one Coach cited, fine. I understand, it's human nature. I do it, too. Violence is part of our nature, that's a given, but the lurid examples you cite would occur at such a statistically insignificantly level that 'preparing' for them would be useless.      


/and i always ignore directly posed moral questions!? my beliefs are put to the test!? nice try, but, oh so clumsy. maybe try suckmymuscle?    

No it is not silly. And it's not lottery odds scenario when a gun was use to prevent a violent crime. You just don't hear about in the main stream media because it doesn't suit their agenda.

And whether or not crime has gone down is irrelevant. It's still too high for my taste. How about you?

And you really believe that defending yourself against a craze killer are "calls to some Homeric macho response"?

You may consider a craze gunman gunning down innocent people "statistically insignificantly" but there are some people that got up this morning who's lives will never be the same that would beg to differ.

And it wasn't clumsy. I just made that up so that I could be sure you'd answer.
  

[dr.chimps]

Sure we do. It is done twice a year all through out the country at our police academies.

Not impressed. Suicide, especially for males, is almost always hidden, and those that are 'crazy' (certainly not a medical term) can be masked with other pathological traits, particularly socially dominant ones. Oh, and the  levels of stress, alcoholism, poor marriage success, and suicide rates for police? Not good. Play baseball with a lot of cops and corrections officers...the stories, the stories.  

[dr.chimps]

No it is not silly. And it's not lottery odds scenario when a gun was use to prevent a violent crime. You just don't hear about in the main stream media because it doesn't suit their agenda.

And whether or not crime has gone down is irrelevant. It's still too high for my taste. How about you?

And you really believe that defending yourself against a craze killer are "calls to some Homeric macho response"?

You may consider a craze gunman gunning down innocent people "statistically insignificantly" but there are some people that got up this morning who's lives will never be the same that would beg to differ.

And it wasn't clumsy. I just made that up so that I could be sure you'd answer.

Look, commit a crime, do the time. I have no problem with that. Punish the bad guys/gals to the full extent of the law - excellent! I'm not naive, nor am I apologetic about such horrid events. However, I don't play the race game like 3.14, nor do I believe in the death penalty, which doesn't work on any level except for the need for a sense of society revenge.  We live in the violence/crime-'freest' times in known history - let's just try to keep some perspective, is all I'm saying. 

[pellius]

Not impressed. Suicide, especially for males, is almost always hidden, and those that are 'crazy' (certainly not a medical term) can be masked with other pathological traits, particularly socially dominant ones. Oh, and the  levels of stress, alcoholism, poor marriage success, and suicide rates for police? Not good. Play baseball with a lot of cops and corrections officers...the stories, the stories.  

I'm not sure I understand your point. Coach was essentially making a point that qualified people should be allowed to carry firearms. You replied how do we do that. My response is that we already do. Are you implying that policemen should not be allowed to carry firearms.

And don't flatter yourself. I am not trying to impress you. I come from a different perspective when it comes to moral issues. I truly want to know what is right. How do we make good people? How do I become a good person? I have a vested interest in knowing what is right and good? So I welcome any and challenges because it doesn't matter to me if I am proved right or wrong. If I'm no one can refute me that it reinforces my belief that I am on the right track. If I am proven wrong then I am a wiser and better person. And like I said, I have a vested interest to being on the right path. You seem more concerned with just winning an argument or debate.

[Ursus]

Religion seems to rile athiests up no end!

[Coach is Back!]

It absolutely does.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Religion seems to rile athiests up no end!

Yeah it does and what a great time we live in where we can criticize it without fear of reprisals from the Church

 

[NarcissisticDeity]

It absolutely does.

With good reason , religion is offensive , outdated and obnoxious.

[Coach is Back!]

Aww, well that's just too bad isn't it?

[Ursus]

I do not go round getting wound up at athiests yet they seem pretty annoyed at me privately expressing my beliefs in a secluded building with other like minded people.

Crazy!