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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: MrBigandCut on October 26, 2011, 01:57:40 AM

Title: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: MrBigandCut on October 26, 2011, 01:57:40 AM
Is it just me or is it a fact that anybody doing H.I.T weight training seems to induce good size for major body parts like chest back and legs but arms seem grossly undersized always? Even Dorains arms never seemed as big as they could be? Therefore could we conclude from this that arms in general need more work or sets to make them grow to there full potential! Or is it just a case of adding more oil these days? ;D
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: kevinf on October 26, 2011, 02:59:32 AM
its a case of drugs and genetics you idiot ::)
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: Figo on October 26, 2011, 03:03:19 AM
the mentzers had good arms
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: DK II on October 26, 2011, 03:07:56 AM
the mentzers had good arms

The mentzers had good drugs.  :-*
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: TrueGrit on October 26, 2011, 03:08:29 AM
the mentzers had good arms

But did they actually build them with HIT training? Anecdotal accounts claim they did the same shit as everyone else for a long time before switching.
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: Dr Dutch on October 26, 2011, 03:20:44 AM
Is it just me or is it a fact that anybody doing H.I.T weight training seems to induce good size for major body parts like chest back and legs but arms seem grossly undersized always? Even Dorains arms never seemed as big as they could be? Therefore could we conclude from this that arms in general need more work or sets to make them grow to there full potential! Or is it just a case of adding more oil these days? ;D
Dorians calves were huge too and very underestimated...
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: Meso_z on October 26, 2011, 03:31:38 AM
Fucking stupid "training protocols". Just fucking train.
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: calfzilla on October 26, 2011, 03:34:03 AM
I only use hit because it is quick. I have better things to do than hang in the gym all day. Plus we get the same results from every workout so it dont matter.
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: tlc on October 26, 2011, 03:38:34 AM
I only use hit because it is quick. I have better things to do than hang in the gym all day. Plus we get the same results from every workout so it dont matter.
QFT

Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: Figo on October 26, 2011, 05:17:52 AM
The mentzers had good drugs.  :-*
the mentzers had good dealers  ;)
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: Figo on October 26, 2011, 05:24:44 AM
But did they actually build them with HIT training? Anecdotal accounts claim they did the same shit as everyone else for a long time before switching.
well, thats another thread altogether, a 100+ pager..
mentzer was obviously the biggest proponent and the poster boy for HIT, aside from jones and darden, but aside from the marketing of HIT, did he get there with low volume, dont think so.

then again, yates and mentzer advocated 1 set per exercise, much like cardillo was doing in the 80s too, but people saw them doing 3 sets of an exercise, they claimed it was warm-up sets, and only the final one was a working set... to an observer, it looked pretty much like standard pyramid sets

viator was a great example of someone that marketed HIT, but didnt follow it
 
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: DK II on October 26, 2011, 05:30:38 AM
well, thats another thread altogether, a 100+ pager..
mentzer was obviously the biggest proponent and the poster boy for HIT, aside from jones and darden, but aside from the marketing of HIT, did he get there with low volume, dont think so.

then again, yates and mentzer advocated 1 set per exercise, much like cardillo was doing in the 80s too, but people saw them doing 3 sets of an exercise, they claimed it was warm-up sets, and only the final one was a working set... to an observer, it looked pretty much like standard pyramid sets

viator was a great example of someone that marketed HIT, but didnt follow it
 

Yep, that whole "1 set" only make up is bullshit, you do 3-4 "warm up sets" and then 1 "work set", wtf?
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: Figo on October 26, 2011, 05:38:27 AM
Yep, that whole "1 set" only make up is bullshit, you do 3-4 "warm up sets" and then 1 "work set", wtf?
the theory of HIT was very nice, train your body over a period of 7-10 days, go in, do 1 set of super-heavy curls, and go home.

eat very little food, body only needs 5.0076 grms protein per day, to put on 3.87433 lbs of pure muscle per year, which amounts to 38.7433 lbs in 10 yrs, incidentally 3.87433 lbs is the maximum muscle one can gain in a yr.

if you feel slightly overtrained, take a month or two off

read ayn rand
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: DK II on October 26, 2011, 05:40:21 AM
the theory of HIT was very nice, train your body over a period of 7-10 days, go in, do 1 set of super-heavy curls, and go home.

eat very little food, body only needs 5.0076 grms protein per day, to put on 3.87433 lbs of pure muscle per year, which amounts to 38.7433 lbs in 10 yrs, incidentally 3.87433 lbs is the maximum muscle one can gain in a yr.

if you feel slightly overtrained, take a month or two off

read ayn rand


LOL!!
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: dyslexic on October 26, 2011, 05:43:34 AM
The Mentzer brothers had big arms long before they ever advocated the stolen *theory* of H.I.T.


Ayn Rand and her "objectivism" is a boring philosophy. You may as well read Aliester Crowley's "Book of Lies" while you're at it.


If you really want to know where Mikey started coming up with this stuff, start looking for the writings of Arthur Jones and his Nautilus equipment and the Casey Viator Colorado experiment. (another lie)  ;D
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: Figo on October 26, 2011, 05:45:45 AM
The Mentzer brothers had big arms long before they ever advocated the stolen *theory* of H.I.T.


Ayn Rand and her "objectivism" is a boring philosophy. You may as well read Aliester Crowley's "Book of Lies" while you're at it.


If you really want to know where Mikey started coming up with this stuff, start looking for the writings of Arthur Jones and his Nautilus equipment and the Casey Viator Colorado experiment. (another lie)  ;D
this!
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: MrBigandCut on October 26, 2011, 06:20:26 AM
Mark Dugdales arms were said to basically disappear when he did H.I.T and D Wolfs didnt really grow much either on it! Couldnt ever undestand why so many people listened to a guy who probably only had 11 inch arms or less ie Arthur Jones! Just goes to prove anyone can sell a training system and equipment and you dont have to have 20+ arms to do it! just a strong personality i guess? ??? ??? Still say it does nothin for your arms as arms = more sets & drugs. HIT and drugs not good enough for arms!
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: Figo on October 26, 2011, 06:24:03 AM
jones mustve been a marketing genius, and he had guns ;D

never used a nautilus piece of equipment, but some machines are highly regarded..
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: Dr Dutch on October 26, 2011, 06:38:18 AM
Mark Dugdales arms were said to basically disappear when he did H.I.T and D Wolfs didnt really grow much either on it!


But Dennis' calves got huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge.... . :D
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: MrBigandCut on October 26, 2011, 06:53:48 AM
calves & back definately grow on it ! Dorian classic example  ;D
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: Meso_z on October 26, 2011, 06:55:50 AM
the theory of HIT was very nice, train your body over a period of 7-10 days, go in, do 1 set of super-heavy curls, and go home.

eat very little food, body only needs 5.0076 grms protein per day, to put on 3.87433 lbs of pure muscle per year, which amounts to 38.7433 lbs in 10 yrs, incidentally 3.87433 lbs is the maximum muscle one can gain in a yr.

if you feel slightly overtrained, take a month or two off

read ayn rand
:D
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: farrellzach on October 26, 2011, 07:07:39 AM
the mentzers had good dealers  ;)

The Mentzer's dealers had good drugs
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: MB on October 26, 2011, 07:12:51 AM
The Mentzer brothers had big arms long before they ever advocated the stolen *theory* of H.I.T.


Ayn Rand and her "objectivism" is a boring philosophy. You may as well read Aliester Crowley's "Book of Lies" while you're at it.


If you really want to know where Mikey started coming up with this stuff, start looking for the writings of Arthur Jones and his Nautilus equipment and the Casey Viator Colorado experiment. (another lie)  ;D
Agreed.  Read Arthur Jones and save your time.  Mike made a good living off of Arthur's work.     
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: ipne on October 26, 2011, 07:17:43 AM
who couldn't use bigger arms :)
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: dj181 on October 26, 2011, 07:27:55 AM
AJ supposedly had 17 1/4 inch arms at a bodyweight of 205 at 5'8" and he was a lifetime natural.
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: Jaime on October 26, 2011, 07:35:57 AM
AJ supposedly had 17 1/4 inch arms at a bodyweight of 205 at 5'8" and he was a lifetime natural.
::) ::) ::)



H.i.t is Absolutely fucking useless, cannot overstate that point...

Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: Figo on October 26, 2011, 08:41:49 AM
The Mentzer's dealers had good drugs
mentzers dealers had good chefs
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: Viking11 on October 26, 2011, 08:53:58 AM
The Hit guys used to be known for arms, legs and delts- Viator, Mentzers, Dave Masorakis, but in the case of all but Masorakis who had great balance, they were not noted for great pecs, or lats. So I would flip the original post on its head. 
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: dj181 on October 26, 2011, 09:01:01 AM
When Darden was in his prime he was a torso guy, but you are right when you say that most HIT guys were "limb guys" ie. arms and legs overpowering their torso (chest and back)
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: wes on October 26, 2011, 09:36:03 AM
I saw the Mentzer brothers with Dave Mastorakis in a mall when I was a teen.........they were huge long before using HIT.

HIT sux IMO..............very boring.
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: Viking11 on October 26, 2011, 09:38:10 AM
I saw the Mentzer brothers with Dave Mastorakis in a mall when I was a teen.........they were huge long before using HIT.

HIT sux IMO..............very boring.
WES, what year was that?
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: chess315 on October 26, 2011, 10:38:35 AM
i have noticed the same thing low volume works alright for big muscles not so much for small ones
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: First Blood on October 26, 2011, 10:42:36 AM
I don't like HIT because it's too focused on training to failure. It's very easy to burn out when you train to failure, even if the volume is very low. When you go beyond failure with forced reps etc it also increases the risk of injury.

That being said there are many different types of HIT routines. Some are better than others so it's kinda pointless to discuss this issue in detail unless you define exactly what type of routine is being discussed.

Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: PJim on October 26, 2011, 10:44:24 AM
I train HIT religiously and my arms are my best bodypart.
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: First Blood on October 26, 2011, 10:46:47 AM
I also think drugs change a lot. I don't think what Arnold or Mentzer did is appropriate for natural trainees. Neither extreme is the best choice. The 'truth' lies somewhere in-between.
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: MrBigandCut on October 26, 2011, 03:25:59 PM
Most of the guys like Menzor etc got big arms on volume before they did HIT. The guys like Yates etc who have only done HIT have undeveloped arms compared to the rest of them is my agrument!  8)
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: wes on October 26, 2011, 03:31:52 PM
WES, what year was that?
Early 70`s James.
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: berblexer on October 26, 2011, 03:37:43 PM
Dorian did HIT and his arms were shit
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: L.L on October 26, 2011, 03:53:22 PM
high volume is what always has worked for me..
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: slaveboy1980 on October 26, 2011, 03:56:05 PM
high, low blabaababalalallala

it's all drugs

how the pros train is irrelevant
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: DK II on October 26, 2011, 09:26:27 PM
high, low blabaababalalallala

it's all drugs

how the pros train is irrelevant

qft
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: WillGrant on October 26, 2011, 09:47:55 PM
AJ supposedly had 17 1/4 inch arms at a bodyweight of 205 at 5'8" and he was a lifetime natural.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: Sherief Shalaby on October 26, 2011, 10:32:33 PM
Is it just me or is it a fact that anybody doing H.I.T weight training seems to induce good size for major body parts like chest back and legs but arms seem grossly undersized always? Even Dorains arms never seemed as big as they could be? Therefore could we conclude from this that arms in general need more work or sets to make them grow to there full potential! Or is it just a case of adding more oil these days? ;D

so why were dorian's triceps very good?!!.. in general weak parts are mainly due to bad genetics.. i think if a training method is good for a certain part it can be good for any part!!..
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: dyslexic on October 26, 2011, 11:48:32 PM
so why were dorian's triceps very good?!!.. in general weak parts are mainly due to bad genetics.. i think if a training method is good for a certain part it can be good for any part!!..


I actually thought about that for a moment....
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: g101 on October 26, 2011, 11:58:21 PM
lol..
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: Figo on October 27, 2011, 12:13:17 AM
MM: "..now you see, Paul, if you were doing my methods your arms would be bigger.."

PD: "but Mike, then I'd have to like train, and stuff, you know what I mean..."

MM: " the change of the winds spouts the yearning for the maximum of the loss of the dividends of the yesteryear... shit! dropped my cigarrette.."
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: breakmore on October 27, 2011, 12:55:08 AM
MM: "..now you see, Paul, if you were doing my methods your arms would be bigger.."

PD: "but Mike, then I'd have to like train, and stuff, you know what I mean..."

MM: " the change of the winds spouts the yearning for the maximum of the loss of the dividends of the yesteryear... shit! dropped my cigarrette.."
Hahaha, that shit is so true.
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: First Blood on October 27, 2011, 08:05:06 AM
high, low blabaababalalallala

it's all drugs

how the pros train is irrelevant

I have learnt that the hard way. I used to overanalyze how the pros trained ( I still sometimes make the mistake tho lol) but I have now understood that it really doesn't matter. It's all about consistent hormonization and eating sufficient calories to sustain growth. Of course, if you want to compete you need to train on a consistent basis. But the training does not need to be anything special if you take enough drugs.

Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: First Blood on October 27, 2011, 08:10:52 AM
so why were dorian's triceps very good?!!.. in general weak parts are mainly due to bad genetics.. i think if a training method is good for a certain part it can be good for any part!!..

I think Dorian's biceps was a weak body part due to genetics. I'm sure he tried all kinds of things to improve his biceps. I also remember he said that his forearms often would take over from the biceps during biceps exercises. So proper exercise selection is something that will vary between different people and is probably more important than the exact amount of sets he did.

Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: SaltShaker on October 27, 2011, 08:20:48 AM
H I T is a good changeup... i wouldnt do it long term
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: Palpatine Q on October 27, 2011, 08:32:23 AM
AJ supposedly had 17 1/4 inch arms at a bodyweight of 205 at 5'8" and he was a lifetime natural.

And you "supposedly" have a brain but you swallow everything H.I.T. related wholesale and without question
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: Sherief Shalaby on October 27, 2011, 08:49:44 AM
I think Dorian's biceps was a weak body part due to genetics. I'm sure he tried all kinds of things to improve his biceps. I also remember he said that his forearms often would take over from the biceps during biceps exercises. So proper exercise selection is something that will vary between different people and is probably more important than the exact amount of sets he did.



imo dorian's biceps (before tearing his left) were ok.. not the same level as his triceps and forearms but still ok.. better than levron's and shawn's from the front for example!!..
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: First Blood on October 27, 2011, 08:52:12 AM
imo dorian's biceps (before tearing his left) were ok.. not the same level as his triceps and forearms but still ok.. better than levron's and shawn's from the front for example!!..

When I say weak, I mean in relation to his other bodyparts. Certainly, Yates had pretty big arms! His left arm was always lagging behind his right arm tho. Even before his biceps tear in 94.
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: Sherief Shalaby on October 27, 2011, 08:58:05 AM
And you "supposedly" have a brain but you swallow everything H.I.T. related wholesale and without question

but i seriously have been training my whole body including arms only one set per exercise during the last 2 years.. so for biceps or triceps it's only 4-5 sets and as you know my arms are great ;D..

i was once talking with my dear friend sawmi about HIT and how it worked fine with me and his opinion was that after so many years of training any training method gives nearly the same result!!.. i kinda agree with him..
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: MrBigandCut on October 27, 2011, 08:58:20 AM
If only Dorians arms were as proportionately as big as someone like Lee Priest he would have had the full package? I know Lee is renowned for doing 20 sets for Bis and Tris? Put then again Lee doesnt have the Back & Chest of Yates. I presume both take similar amounts of hormones to achieve there goal so maybe there is something in doing more sets for arms to make them grow more? Or is it a simply case that Lee just does more oil in them then Yates did?  ???
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: Sherief Shalaby on October 27, 2011, 09:00:05 AM
When I say weak, I mean in relation to his other bodyparts. Certainly, Yates had pretty big arms! His left arm was always lagging behind his right arm tho. Even before his biceps tear in 94.

before tearing his left it was just of a very different shape than the right!!.. as if they didnt belong to the same person.. same with jay cutler..
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: Sherief Shalaby on October 27, 2011, 09:02:32 AM
If only Dorians arms were as proportionately as big as someone like Lee Priest he would have had the full package? I know Lee is renowned for doing 20 sets for Bis and Tris? Put then again Lee doesnt have the Back & Chest of Yates. I presume both take similar amounts of hormones to achieve there goal so maybe there is something in doing more sets for arms to make them grow more? Or is it a simply case that Lee just does more oil in them then Yates did?  ???

nither this nor that it's simply he has better arms (especially) biceps gentics than dorian!!..
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: Figo on October 27, 2011, 09:08:35 AM
Or is it a simply case that Lee just does more oil in them then Yates did?  ???
its a case of genetically better arms and oil
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: SaltShaker on October 27, 2011, 09:10:24 AM
And you "supposedly" have a brain but you swallow everything H.I.T. related wholesale and without question
Gey groink, whats your diet/cardio like?
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: Palpatine Q on October 27, 2011, 02:51:51 PM
but i seriously have been training my whole body including arms only one set per exercise during the last 2 years.. so for biceps or triceps it's only 4-5 sets and as you know my arms are great ;D..

i was once talking with my dear friend sawmi about HIT and how it worked fine with me and his opinion was that after so many years of training any training method gives nearly the same result!!.. i kinda agree with him..

QFT....all the same shit

if YOU know how to train
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: g101 on October 27, 2011, 04:22:04 PM
waiting gh15's answer  :D ;D
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: Viking11 on November 01, 2011, 12:58:52 PM
Early 70`s James.
Oh. They were all well into the Jones stuff by then. Still genetic freaks though. I train as hard and after 20 plus years still don't match up with them.
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: buffbong on November 01, 2011, 01:37:15 PM
 The idea of doing only one set training protocal isn't ideal for developing a balanced body. But Mike did get us thinking about how many sets are actually needed. For example this would be my high intensity bicep routine done after shoulder training. That is every set.
Standing dumbell curls 2x6-8
E-z bar preacher curls 2x8
Hammer wrist curls    2x10     
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: DK II on November 01, 2011, 02:55:56 PM
The idea of doing only one set training protocal isn't ideal for developing a balanced body. But Mike did get us thinking about how many sets are actually needed. For example this would be my high intensity bicep routine done after shoulder training. That is every set.
Standing dumbell curls 2x6-8
E-z bar preacher curls 2x8
Hammer wrist curls    2x10     

what's your cycle?
Title: Re: H I T and arm size?????
Post by: buffbong on November 01, 2011, 03:38:41 PM
Haha never touched a thing in my life....