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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: sync pulse on November 02, 2011, 12:42:09 AM
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Should the military press be restored to Olympic lifting?...They dropped the press in the 1970's because the Russians were cleaning everyone's clock with their expertise in training/pharmacology...
The three lifts were:
- The Snatch (sigh, that name)
- The Clean and Jerk
- The Press
The first two tested primarily reflex and coordination functions; the Press tested primarily how strong you were.
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military press is for pussies, clean and press is for real men
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military press is for pussies, clean and press is for real men
that's obviously what he meant you motherfukcing dumbass
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that's obviously what he meant you motherfukcing dumbass
shut your cockholster captain retardo
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Should the military press be restored to Olympic lifting?...They dropped the press in the 1970's because the Russians were cleaning everyone's clock with their expertise in training/pharmacology...
The three lifts were:
- The Snatch (sigh, that name)
- The Clean and Jerk
- The Press
The first two tested primarily reflex and coordination functions; the Press tested primarily how strong you were.
this is the strongest press ever done in hostory and it sure isnt a damn russian
sure the russian "beat" that record by 2 kilos but look at this knee bend, should have been red lighted/red flagged/ "no lift"
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I think not. Hard to judge + the jerk requires a strong upper body.
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they will probably remove the snatch at some point because he who wins the jerk usually wins the total because the jerk is a much higher number
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The first two tested primarily reflex and coordination functions; the Press tested primarily how strong you were.
This by the way is an utter lie. Or I guess weightlifters squat 400 kg just for fun?
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This by the way is an utter lie. Or I guess weightlifters squat 400 kg just for fun?
lol none squat 400kg ::)
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lol none squat 400kg ::)
Mark Henry did 430 but I guess that was with wraps.
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Mark Henry did 430 but I guess that was with wraps.
he was total shit as far as weightlifting goes
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105 kg weightlifting champ
vs
3rd place finisher in the world's strongest man + team member of the Russian weightlifting team
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Wouldn't it be impossible to judge how much body english is permitted?
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unreal strength in the above vids
there was a moron on here a while back claiming weightlifters weren't that strong !!!????
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claiming weightlifters weren't that strong !!!????
lol.....
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military press is for pussies, clean and press is for real men
Clean and press is for Pierre Cardin suits...
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They dropped the press because of excessive backbend while performing the lift.
It almost looked like a standing incline press.
Some guys leaned back so far it almost seemed like their spines were made out of rubber.............hence,it became so hard to judge a good lift that they simply abolished it altogether.
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105 kg weightlifting champ
vs
3rd place finisher in the world's strongest man + team member of the Russian weightlifting team
Truly impressive and a very strong man, and no I could never equal that when I was at my height of conditioning...but you are comparing apples to oranges...olympic lifts all start with the barbell on the floor.
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They dropped the press because of excessive backbend while performing the lift.
It almost looked like a standing incline press.
Some guys leaned back so far it almost seemed like their spines were made out of rubber.............hence,it became so hard to judge a good lift that they simply abolished it altogether.
This may be a component of the decision,...but my physical education teachers told me that the "smoke filled room" reason was to take the Russians down a notch.
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Yes - would be great.
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Clean and press is for Pierre Cardin suits...
Hahaha, your standards are high!
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To those who think Olympic lifting is technique you obviously never tried to lift anything over your head from the ground. There are no weak champion Olympic lifters. They have incredible power.
The clean and press turned into a standing bench press by the amount of back bend that was used. They also started to use a little kip to begin the press.
The clean and press is an excellent measure of a man's strength. It shows power to clean the weight. The whole body has to have a strong core to stabilize while the press is completed. It's one of the best exercises you can do with a barbell.
I would love to see how many pro bodybuilders could clean 250 lbs and press it over head. I really wonder if anyone could do it of the current guys. I bet Coleman could have but the current guys I wonder.
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Should the military press be restored to Olympic lifting?...They dropped the press in the 1970's because the Russians were cleaning everyone's clock with their expertise in training/pharmacology...
The three lifts were:
- The Snatch (sigh, that name)
- The Clean and Jerk
- The Press
The first two tested primarily reflex and coordination functions; the Press tested primarily how strong you were.
The real question is should everyone in the military be required to do military press or be discharged.
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I love the Clean and Press, but it will never go back in.
Originally, there were 5 weightlifts in Olympic Lifting, the Snatch, C/J, C/P, and 1 handed versions of the C/J and Snatch. That was the original reason for the center knurling on Olympic bars.
While true that the C/P was eliminated partly because of infighting and mistakes in judging, particularly in regards to the amount of back bend, one of the other real reasons was the amount of time it takes to run a show or event, especially with TV being a big thing for the past few decades. It was too much time to run the full 5 lifts, then it became too much time to run the 3 lifts. If you've been to big meets, you've seen that it's a few seconds of excitement, and hours of boredom.
The Clean and Jerk was close enough to the C/p that it stayed, the C/P also had the lazy judging issue, so it was an easy decision. In '72 it was gone.
It's a shame that the C/P didn't stay in the Olympics for the Americans. We actually fielded many great pressers till '72, I mean top 5, World Class lifters. While a technical lift, it's still a bit like the Powerlifts where brute strength can overcome some technique problems.
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I love the Clean and Press, but it will never go back in.
Originally, there were 5 weightlifts in Olympic Lifting, the Snatch, C/J, C/P, and 1 handed versions of the C/J and Snatch. That was the original reason for the center knurling on Olympic bars.
While true that the C/P was eliminated partly because of infighting and mistakes in judging, particularly in regards to the amount of back bend, one of the other real reasons was the amount of time it takes to run a show or event, especially with TV being a big thing for the past few decades. It was too much time to run the full 5 lifts, then it became too much time to run the 3 lifts. If you've been to big meets, you've seen that it's a few seconds of excitement, and hours of boredom.
The Clean and Jerk was close enough to the C/J that it stayed, the C/P also had the lazy judging issue, so it was an easy decision. In '72 it was gone.
It's a shame that the C/P didn't stay in the Olympics for the Americans. We actually fielded many great pressers till '72, I mean top 5, World Class lifters. While a technical lift, it's still a bit like the Powerlifts where brute strength can overcome some technique problems.
How would a standing military press (with minimal "technique") compare to an Olympic press weight wise, assuming you practised both? 75-80%?
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lol none squat 400kg ::)
Yes there are people, and yes raw.
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Why don't gyms have platforms and weights to perform olympic lifts? It doesn't seem like that much investment and it's a great way to train for athletics. Maybe finding a coach to teach the lifts is beyond the capacity of a personal trainer?
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@ StanZoLOL-
Mid 70's, I'd figure.
This was how much back bend was happening sometimes-
(http://jva.ontariostrongman.ca/BACKBE10.gif).
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Why don't gyms have platforms and weights to perform olympic lifts? It doesn't seem like that much investment and it's a great way to train for athletics. Maybe finding a coach to teach the lifts is beyond the capacity of a personal trainer?
Most good Colleges have them.
You won't see them in commercial gyms sometimes because-
1) Wear and tear and noise. A lost lift is noisy and scary to most common folks. Also if a lifter bends a bar it's close to $500+ to replace.
2) Lack of Coaching and Liability. It hard to find coaches for this hobby, or at least good ones. Also from a liability stand point, if some guy gets hurt or loses a bar and hurts someone else, the lawyers will break you.
3) Actual use. In the space that you could put a platform, you could have 2-3 bikes, treadmills, a leg press, etc.... that way more people will use.
:(.
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Im a expert in jerk and clean.
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3) Actual use. In the space that you could put a platform, you could have 2-3 bikes, treadmills, a leg press, etc.... that way more people will use.
:(.
Yeah, I guess a few more bikes are necessary because 63 pieces of cardio equipment aren't enough. It's sad what gyms have become.
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They should include the seated calf raise...
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@ StanZoLOL-
Mid 70's, I'd figure.
This was how much back bend was happening sometimes-
(http://jva.ontariostrongman.ca/BACKBE10.gif).
Pretty crazy. I noticed in some of the later press videos there was a very slight "push" from the legs, too, which given the strength of some of those guys could effect it a lot.
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People turned the 'press' into an incline bench thats why it was dropped.
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So did anyone ever break his back? looks quite dangerous
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Most good Colleges have them.
You won't see them in commercial gyms sometimes because-
1) Wear and tear and noise. A lost lift is noisy and scary to most common folks. Also if a lifter bends a bar it's close to $500+ to replace.
2) Lack of Coaching and Liability. It hard to find coaches for this hobby, or at least good ones. Also from a liability stand point, if some guy gets hurt or loses a bar and hurts someone else, the lawyers will break you.
3) Actual use. In the space that you could put a platform, you could have 2-3 bikes, treadmills, a leg press, etc.... that way more people will use.
:(.
Yep - good equipment is pricey! An Eleiko bar + 40kg in weights costs around 800 €.
I have to agree with the gyms' policies - just wasted money in relation to what folks would be using it for.... imagine a dreaded up right rower using Eleiko to pump his bulging side delts.
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:D Eleiko upright rows.
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As a guy who attends olympic lifting meets regularly they are so freaking slow, long and boring as it is with TWO lifts I couldn't imagine how long they would take with three.
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Yes there are people, and yes raw.
i meant no olympic lifter does it and no one does it high bar full depth
not in any recordings around the world has it happened only in questionable fables and tales of strength
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As a guy who attends olympic lifting meets regularly they are so freaking slow, long and boring as it is with TWO lifts I couldn't imagine how long they would take with three.
About the same length as a 3 lift PL meet? ;) LOL Your gym is very cool, btw.
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i meant no olympic lifter does it and no one does it high bar full depth
Now you are just moving the goal posts.
Mark Henry, a weightlifter, squatted 430 kg. Period. So there must be many others too.
And a parallel squat might be a full squat for some lifters.
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Now you are just moving the goal posts.
Mark Henry, a weightlifter, squatted 430 kg. Period. So there must be many others too.
MARK HENRY DID NOT HIGH BAR FULL SQUAT 430 KG
MARK HENRY WAS FAR FAR FROM ELITE WEIGHTLIFTER
just putting that out there
but he did actually do that and he was a huge strong motherfukcer no doubt
just find your statements misleading
also there are not many who did the same not by a long shot
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One of the best articles I've read on the press- http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/JSH/JSH2001/JSH2803/JSH2803d.pdf .
It's long, but good and the pictures are great.
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I dropped a 245# clean from shoulder height last week, no platform, steel plates......massive boom! :D
Tomorrow is cleans again.......wonder how I'll do? ;D
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olympic lifters are the best athletes in the world, imo. The amount of power, precision, concentration, that it takes for something so precise (throwing 400 pounds over your head) is mind boggling. I did a competition when I was 16, snatch was 225 clean and jerk was around 250. I could probably clean and jerk 400 pounds by now if I was taking the amount of drugs I'm on and trained for it.
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olympic lifters are the best athletes in the world, imo. The amount of power, precision, concentration, that it takes for something so precise (throwing 400 pounds over your head) is mind boggling. I did a competition when I was 16, snatch was 225 clean and jerk was around 250. I could probably clean and jerk 400 pounds by now if I was taking the amount of drugs I'm on and trained for it.
my best snatch was 110kg and clean and jerk was 135kg at 82kg bw 182cm height maybe a year or two ago
i quit and lost interest
only strength train now
sometimes i want to try it again but the competitive aspect of it was a pain in the ass with the fukcing annoying team mates and the competitions that eat up an entire saturday
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my best snatch was 110kg and clean and jerk was 135kg at 82kg bw 182cm height maybe a year or two ago
i quit and lost interest
only strength train now
sometimes i want to try it again but the competitive aspect of it was a pain in the ass with the fukcing annoying team mates and the competitions that eat up an entire saturday
yeah fuck that shit WAYYY too much work.
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Clean and press seems like a stupid olympic lift as the weight you can clean is so vastly heavier than the weight you can press without cheating. Not sure what they were expecting.
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yeah fuck that shit WAYYY too much work.
yep and sometimes i wonder "and for what" i mean it's cool but is it really so much cooler as a big bench or big squat
i donno...
the way of training is also pretty unproductive for naturals because of the massive amount of work your legs do on the snatch and the clean and then you're supposed to do a squats workout
i mean really
no wonder i plateaud so fucking hard it's over training to the max
still cool sport but not worth it if you're not on roids imho
you end up with huge quads and a preteens boy body all over
this is the case for 95% of amateurs in that sport
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One of the best articles I've read on the press- http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/JSH/JSH2001/JSH2803/JSH2803d.pdf .
It's long, but good and the pictures are great.
Interesting 8)
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yep and sometimes i wonder "and for what" i mean it's cool but is it really so much cooler as a big bench or big squat
i donno...
the way of training is also pretty unproductive for naturals because of the massive amount of work your legs do on the snatch and the clean and then you're supposed to do a squats workout
i mean really
no wonder i plateaud so fucking hard it's over training to the max
still cool sport but not worth it if you're not on roids imho
you end up with huge quads and a preteens boy body all over
this is the case for 95% of amateurs in that sport
yes! big huge quads and a huge ass with a shit upper body is what you end up with. I was like why the fuck am I going to do front squats with 500 pounds every day, and people not even be able to tell i workout. Vs take shitloads of drugs, train like a pussy 3 times a week, never do squats and deadlifts, but actually look like a bodybuilder down the road. The choice was easy for me...
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yes! big huge quads and a huge ass with a shit upper body is what you end up with. I was like why the fuck am I going to do front squats with 500 pounds every day, and people not even be able to tell i workout. Vs take shitloads of drugs, train like a pussy 3 times a week, never do squats and deadlifts, but actually look like a bodybuilder down the road. The choice was easy for me...
even without drugs lifting 3 times a week training the whole body will give a much better physique and all around strength
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even without drugs lifting 3 times a week training the whole body will give a much better physique and all around strength
I'm not sure full body workouts are optimal for bodybuilding. I know they were popular in the 40s and 50s before drug use became widespread but I mean even with all the drug use that is going on there has to be a reason as to why bodybuilders split up the workouts.
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I'm not sure full body workouts are optimal for bodybuilding. I know they were popular in the 40s and 50s before drug use became widespread but I mean even with all the drug use that is going on there has to be a reason as to why bodybuilders split up the workouts.
full body workout is the best choice for the natural lifter, countless "vets" will tell you the same
the reason is simple
body part splits have too much volume all at once and at the same time not enough frequency
at least that's my understanding
and i tried both and found a lot better results with full body approach. and with full body i dont mean garbage like layne norton i mean good old 5x5 shit
peace
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full body workout is the best choice for the natural lifter, countless "vets" will tell you the same
the reason is simple
body part splits have too much volume all at once and at the same time not enough frequency
at least that's my understanding
and i tried both and found a lot better results with full body approach. and with full body i dont mean garbage like layne norton i mean good old 5x5 shit
peace
Very few big guys (in bodybuilding) use full body workouts anymore, natural or not.
I think a 2-way split would be a better option and would allow you to train bodyparts twice a week. Research suggests this as an optimal frequency for non newbies. The big problem with full body workouts is that it's very difficult to train all of your body in one workout. Quality simply goes down after a few exercises and it's hard to do enough volume for every body part. You don't want to do too much volume but not too little either.
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I think a 2-way split would be a better option and would allow you to train bodyparts twice a week. Research suggests this as an optimal frequency for non newbies. The big problem with full body workouts is that it's very difficult to train all of your body in one workout. Quality simply goes down after a few exercises and it's hard to do enough volume for every body part. You don't want to do too much volume but not too little either.
the typical 5x5 routine will have you squat, bench and row hard twice a week, and deadlift + military press once a week
pretty good deal
they add assistance exercises here and there but that's the main idea
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the typical 5x5 routine will have you squat, bench and row hard twice a week, and deadlift + military press once a week
pretty good deal
they add assistance exercises here and there but that's the main idea
Yeah I'm aware of the type of routine you are talking about (there are many variations of it and bill starr was/is a big advocate for it), but it's not really a bodybuilding routine. Not saying you can't add mass using it, of course you can but if it was the best way then more bodybuilders would be using it.
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Yeah I'm aware of the type of routine you are talking about (there are many variations of it and bill starr was/is a big advocate for it), but it's not really a bodybuilding routine. Not saying you can't add mass using it, of course you can but if it was the best way then more bodybuilders would be using it.
i was doing a bodybuilding routine for a year and noticed my strength wasn't increasing then i said hey maybe if i do a routine that increases bench squat deadlift it would be better than this for bodybuilding
but i dont know
i guess natural bodybuilding is just a scam and at least you can gain some strength naturally :-\
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i was doing a bodybuilding routine for a year and noticed my strength wasn't increasing then i said hey maybe if i do a routine that increases bench squat deadlift it would be better than this for bodybuilding
but i dont know
i guess natural bodybuilding is just a scam and at least you can gain some strength naturally :-\
I don't know either :D. Some say this, other say that. The more I read the more confused I get. I should start using drugs and stop researching (reading studies etc). ;D
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I don't know either :D. Some say this, other say that. The more I read the more confused I get. I should start using drugs and stop researching (reading studies etc). ;D
once you're on steroids you know everything
;D
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shut your cockholster captain retardo
That's pretty damn funny.
"Cockholster" ha ha.
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once you're on steroids you know everything
;D
Drug users seem to discuss training much less than us naturals. I have checked some roid forums and no one gives a crap about training, all they discuss is drugs.
I wish it was legal and I wasn't such a big pussy. :D
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Drug users seem to discuss training much less than us naturals. I have checked some roid forums and no one gives a crap about training, all they discuss is drugs.
I wish it was legal and I wasn't such a big pussy. :D
if the law is what's keeping you from taking them why not go to a doctor who specializes in competitive sports
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if the law is what's keeping you from taking them why not go to a doctor who specializes in competitive sports
It's not only the law, I'm also afraid of the side effects (hair loss is high on the list). And where I live you can't go to a doctor to get it legally.
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It's not only the law, I'm also afraid of the side effects (hair loss is high on the list).
it speeds up hair loss in those prone to it, if you have a perfect head of hair right now you will probably not experience it
anyway it's sort of ridiculous to use roids unless you can make the pros
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it speeds up hair loss in those prone to it, if you have a perfect head of hair right now you will probably not experience it
anyway it's sort of ridiculous to use roids unless you can make the pros
I go back and forth on the issue. One day I'm thinking it's not worth it, the next day I'm thinking what is the point of training if I can't grow anymore (motivation to train really goes down). I can probably get a bit stronger but I can't add many more grams of muscle naturally.
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I go back and forth on the issue. One day I'm thinking it's not worth it, the next day I'm thinking what is the point of training if I can't grow anymore (motivation to train really goes down). I can probably get a bit stronger but I can't add many more grams of muscle naturally.
that's why it makes more sense to focus on strength
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that's why it makes more sense to focus on strength
At the end of the day I don't care about strength :D. Well not beyond it* being the primary driver of growth (or rather a proxy for muscle tension) for a natural. But I'm pretty much maxed out when it comes to the amount of muscle I can carry naturally.
*progressive strength gains
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At the end of the day I don't care about strength :D. Well not beyond it* being the primary driver of growth (or rather a proxy for muscle tension) for a natural. But I'm pretty much maxed out when it comes to the amount of muscle I can carry naturally.
*progressive strength gains
then you need steroids or another hobby, like patronizing prostitutes or playing the piano
peace
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then you need steroids or another hobby, like patronizing prostitutes or playing the piano
peace
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking too. And just focus on 3x45min maintenance sessions per week.
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Yeah, that's what I'm thinking too. And just focus on 3x45min maintenance sessions per week.
go for it, find something satisfying like sex with chocolate women
or play the piano, everybody is impressed with a dude who can bust out beethoven symphonia on the piano
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go for it, find something satisfying like sex with chocolate women
or play the piano, everybody is impressed with a dude who can bust out beethoven symphonia on the piano
I'm already a guitar god. Well, at least in my own mind. :D
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I'm already a guitar god. Well, at least in my own mind. :D
nothing like the piano my friend
lol just kidding
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I'm already a guitar god. Well, at least in my own mind. :D
Any youtube links?