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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: JFree92 on November 04, 2011, 04:38:17 AM

Title: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: JFree92 on November 04, 2011, 04:38:17 AM
I'm only 19 but have ambitions to go far in bodybuilding. I have been lifting for 1 year but most of this has been spent cutting from being a fat kunt. I have been reading info on getbig for a while now and am looking to start on gear sooner rather than later.

However, I lack a natural foundation atm and would not consider myself big in anyway. I have heard contrasting opinions on whether this is a problem or not.

This is my pic

(http://i41.tinypic.com/1584etw.jpg)
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on November 04, 2011, 04:42:15 AM
you need to learn the proper techniques in the main lifts and you have to know how to eat a lot


I think apart from that natural training is probably a waste if you want to be a real bodybuild


maybe do it for a year, by then you have 90% of your natural potential


you may want to use this time to reflect on your "ambitions to go far" because if you can't make it do you really want to load up on hormones like crazy?

all the best

pns approved
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: cross-of-iron on November 04, 2011, 04:43:07 AM
 ::)
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: JFree92 on November 04, 2011, 04:54:51 AM
Yeah pns even if in the future I decide I don't want to bodybuild on the pro stage, I still definitely want to maintain and build on an impressive physique.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on November 04, 2011, 04:57:25 AM
Yeah pns even if in the future I decide I don't want to bodybuild on the pro stage, I still definitely want to maintain and build on an impressive physique.

you should read gh15's "so you want to be a bodybuild" series then.

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=393232.0
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=393700.0

good luck
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: j3di3 on November 04, 2011, 05:01:09 AM
Dude, you look like a teenage girl.

You should train naturally for several years, learn to eat right and train correctly and only then proceed to gear.
These few years will give you the opportunity to figure our if you are really going to stick to training.

Wait until you are 24-25 and then consider taking gear again.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on November 04, 2011, 05:02:38 AM
Dude, you look like a teenage girl.

You should train naturally for several years, learn to eat right and train correctly and only then proceed to gear.
These few years will give you the opportunity to figure our if you are really going to stick to training.

Wait until you are 24-25 and then consider taking gear again.

i asked gh15 and he said by 23 you definitely need to be on it, definitely!!!

21-23 can still get good results with steroids without growth hormone he said

the older you get the more gh you will need

so unless he wants to blow tons of money on gh best not to wait untill too late
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: j3di3 on November 04, 2011, 05:03:59 AM
sometimes i cant figure out if you are serious or being sarcastic, i hope you are being sarcastic this time.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on November 04, 2011, 05:04:58 AM
sometimes i cant figure out if you are serious or being sarcastic, i hope you are being sarcastic this time.


i dont know lol what do i know or what do i care about drugs

lol
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: _bruce_ on November 04, 2011, 05:05:58 AM
Make sure you never enter prison.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: goomba420 on November 04, 2011, 05:10:49 AM

i dont know lol what do i know or what do i care about drugs

lol

you have an obsession with this place u bitch,  join the rest and hop on hormones PUSSY
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: bber on November 04, 2011, 05:13:16 AM
my only advice for you right now

learn how to eat
dont waste your money on supplements besides the basics
dont over train.. get your rest..

do this for a few months you should be able to gain a decent amount.. otherwise you'll be like the many people i see who get on gear straight away, gain like 20lb then have a hard time gaining even with gear in the future lol
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: First Blood on November 04, 2011, 05:19:52 AM
I'm only 19 but have ambitions to go far in bodybuilding. I have been lifting for 1 year but most of this has been spent cutting from being a fat kunt. I have been reading info on getbig for a while now and am looking to start on gear sooner rather than later.

However, I lack a natural foundation atm and would not consider myself big in anyway. I have heard contrasting opinions on whether this is a problem or not.

This is my pic

(http://i41.tinypic.com/1584etw.jpg)

Train for at least 3 years before you consider drugs. Learn the basics and know your body.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: whitewidow on November 04, 2011, 05:49:11 AM
most important thing possible.you should only start the juice when you are about 24-25 and totally plateau out. juice will just get you over the hump where you will continue growth once you hit that plateau but it shouldnt hit you till your 24-25 men grow naturally for a long time. even when you are 24-25 you still can make gains but thats when it starts becomming very hard and you have to turn to anabolics to get bigger and stronger. I think this thread is a joke but Ill post this anyways.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: JFree92 on November 04, 2011, 06:02:35 AM
OK thanks for the replies, didn't mean to be so stupid or whatever lol. I'm just trying to guage some opinions on it. From what I'd read on this forum previously juicing is encouraged greatly no matter where you are with your training etc. Well at least gh15 seems to explicitly promote hormones.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: MORTALCOIL on November 04, 2011, 06:04:55 AM
Gimmicks Inc.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Dr Dutch on November 04, 2011, 06:04:59 AM

(http://i41.tinypic.com/1584etw.jpg)
I think you maxed out training naturally by now..... ::)
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: farrellzach on November 04, 2011, 06:09:32 AM
Well you look like you've never been in the weight room, sorry to say.

The only foundation GH says you need is the one you build with strictly AAS. Then you build off that with GH and slin.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: JFree92 on November 04, 2011, 06:28:38 AM
Yeah I have been training like 11 months but the whole time I have been training in a calorie deficit which is why it looks like I've never touched a weight. I have been bulking for a month or so now though.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: farrellzach on November 04, 2011, 06:34:41 AM
Yeah I have been training like 11 months but the whole time I have been training in a calorie deficit which is why it looks like I've never touched a weight. I have been bulking for a month or so now though.

Get your weight up, learn to eat a lot and then in maybe a year hit the gear if being a great bodybuilder is the goal.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Tito24 on November 04, 2011, 06:41:55 AM
its really sickening how far people think they can come with natural training, people think that for the slightest bit of muscle you have been juicing.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Borracho on November 04, 2011, 06:45:23 AM
I know you wanted to know what gh thought so I dug up a few posts for ya.......


to the 16 year old who wrote this thread. 3 key points you must dial in at the age youre in are:

1) the right training with the right form with the right weight. bodybuilders are NOT powerlifters (in most cases) you will try to go for SUPER  heavy weights to impress the hoe cheerleaders in your school and you will never see your muscles grow. remember this!! work as heavy as YOU can lift, correctly!

2) C A L O R I E S  and at your age I WOULD NOT PAY ATTENTION TO THE CLEAN DIET CRAP. you dont build a thick bodybuilder physiqe by eating clean and dieting. you EAT TO GROW and you eat CLEAN to CUT. always remember this! following a strict diet at your age will eliminate the word HUGE  from future compliments given to you. when you wake up in the morning tell yourself this: muscles do not grow on broiled chiken and brown rice. muscles do not grow on extra lean beef and oats. you need calories MILK, EGGWHITES, STEAKS, ICEREAM, SPAGGETI AND YOU CAN CHEAT YOUR WAY TO ALMOST ANY FOODS OUT THERE.

3) H O R M O N E S: you can be like many of us and start at 18-19 or you can be like many others that never turn pro and stuck at an amatuer show because they started at 30....all depends on your own needs/ambitions. before you start juicing make sure you got a good foundation on you since the drugs will not build it on you!! yes drugs will add 2 more inches on your arm but you will have to work for the next 2 inches past that like a mad man. it is not only the hormones that make the diff! it is a lot of hard calculated work, it is knowing your body, it is knowing your ego! and most important!! knowing your genetics.

(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=178452.0;attach=215066;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=178452.0;attach=215067;image)

letr me add here that steve seriously take a look at your physiqe ,,you SHOULD NEVER TOUCH DRUGS LOOKING THIS WAY ,,NEVER! this  is not developed no foundation what so ever ,,and need more natural size for the use of even 10 mg winstrol,,and im very serious,,you will just ruin your health with out getting big,,mark my words,,




first cycle should always and forever be this exact one im writing here so write copy and paste

anabol thai snake and  arrow dianabol = 30-50mg
testovirons/norma test or if cyp testex ,, one of of those 3  only!! = 500mg
norma hellas nandrolone decanoate  = 400-600mg

letrozole or nolvadex to keep you hard all through cycle with proviron if you got the money for your dick to be super hard when fuckin the local 18 year old whores who will stand in line to sleep with you

thats all you need
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on November 04, 2011, 06:53:43 AM
you have an obsession with this place u bitch,  join the rest and hop on hormones PUSSY
yeah I can't wait to join the rest of you washed up idiots who juiced up thinking they'd one day be a somebody
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: JFree92 on November 04, 2011, 06:54:28 AM
Thanks for that Borracho but I have noticed gh15 has changed his viewpoint seemingly. Recent he said:

foundation is

the time you had in the gymnasium TRAINING with ANABOLIC STEROIDS IN YOUR BLOOD.... IT IS NOT THE ACTUAL TRAINNIG NATURAL ,, TRAINING NATURAL IS PART OF HAVING FOUNDATION ...BUT THE FOUNDATION THAT I TALK ABOUT IS TRAINING + ANABOLIC STEROIDS! ....

WHEN I SAY SOMEONE DOESNT HAVE FOUNDATION IT MEAN THEY JUMPED TOOOOOOOOOOOO FAST ON THE HGH AND INSULINA AND WENT INTO MEGADOSE LAND BEFOREEEE DEVELOPING ENOUGH MUSCLE DENSITY.... DENNNNNNNNNNNNNSITY ....AND ENOUGH MUSCULAR DEVELOPMENT IN GENERAL....AGAIN! IT IS NOT THE DIAMETER OF MUSCLE IT IS THE ACTUAL DEVELOPMENT OF THE MUSCLE THAT PROJECT STRENGTH AND CREATE A BASE ON WHICH ...YES I JUST SAID ON WHICH...ON WHICH YOU CAN BUILD THE RON COLMANS AND THE DORIAN YATES...

PHILSULINA HAD HAPPY DAY YESTERDAY HE IS YOUR BODYBUILD CHAMP MR O BUT HE LACK THE FOUNDATION ,, IM NOT A MEAN PERSON I DONT HATE HIM ,, HE KNOWS I DONT HATE HIM ...I SAID HE WOULD WIN ,, LONG BEFORE HE WON I SAID HE WOULD WIN ,, BUT! HE JUST DOESNT HAVE THE FOUNDATION MY FRIENDS,, SORRY

gh15 approved.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Man of Steel on November 04, 2011, 07:01:20 AM
I'm only 19 but have ambitions to go far in bodybuilding. I have been lifting for 1 year but most of this has been spent cutting from being a fat kunt. I have been reading info on getbig for a while now and am looking to start on gear sooner rather than later.

However, I lack a natural foundation atm and would not consider myself big in anyway. I have heard contrasting opinions on whether this is a problem or not.

This is my pic

(http://i41.tinypic.com/1584etw.jpg)
First question I'd ask is what are you trying to accomplish with your training?  Wanna look good in clubs and on the beach for girls?   Stay a natty and just train your butt off.  MHO, at 19 with barely a year of training under you belt you don't need to consider gear at all. 
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on November 04, 2011, 07:02:57 AM
First question I'd ask is what are you trying to accomplish with your training?  Wanna look good in clubs and on the beach for girls?   Stay a natty and just train your butt off.  MHO, at 19 with barely a year of training under you belt you don't need to consider gear at all. 

I'm sorry, but you are spreading lies


You cannot look impressive in clubs while natty, cannot be done

naturals always always look small in clothes
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Borracho on November 04, 2011, 07:06:59 AM
I'm sorry, but you are spreading lies


You cannot look impressive in clubs while natty, cannot be done

naturals always always look small in clothes

That depends who you're standing next to but if its average joes than you can look big if you don't have a narrow frame.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on November 04, 2011, 07:07:37 AM
That depends who you're standing next to but if its average joes than you can look big if you don't have a narrow frame.

oh well i'm narrow that's probably why  :-\

and there's always at least a couple of juiced guidos in the club with shirts that are to small
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Borracho on November 04, 2011, 07:09:20 AM
Thanks for that Borracho but I have noticed gh15 has changed his viewpoint seemingly. Recent he said:

foundation is

the time you had in the gymnasium TRAINING with ANABOLIC STEROIDS IN YOUR BLOOD.... IT IS NOT THE ACTUAL TRAINNIG NATURAL ,, TRAINING NATURAL IS PART OF HAVING FOUNDATION ...BUT THE FOUNDATION THAT I TALK ABOUT IS TRAINING + ANABOLIC STEROIDS! ....

WHEN I SAY SOMEONE DOESNT HAVE FOUNDATION IT MEAN THEY JUMPED TOOOOOOOOOOOO FAST ON THE HGH AND INSULINA AND WENT INTO MEGADOSE LAND BEFOREEEE DEVELOPING ENOUGH MUSCLE DENSITY.... DENNNNNNNNNNNNNSITY ....AND ENOUGH MUSCULAR DEVELOPMENT IN GENERAL....AGAIN! IT IS NOT THE DIAMETER OF MUSCLE IT IS THE ACTUAL DEVELOPMENT OF THE MUSCLE THAT PROJECT STRENGTH AND CREATE A BASE ON WHICH ...YES I JUST SAID ON WHICH...ON WHICH YOU CAN BUILD THE RON COLMANS AND THE DORIAN YATES...

PHILSULINA HAD HAPPY DAY YESTERDAY HE IS YOUR BODYBUILD CHAMP MR O BUT HE LACK THE FOUNDATION ,, IM NOT A MEAN PERSON I DONT HATE HIM ,, HE KNOWS I DONT HATE HIM ...I SAID HE WOULD WIN ,, LONG BEFORE HE WON I SAID HE WOULD WIN ,, BUT! HE JUST DOESNT HAVE THE FOUNDATION MY FRIENDS,, SORRY

gh15 approved.

If you wanna be a pro bb than personally I wouldn't waste anytime. But why would anyone wanna be a pro bber  ???
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: JFree92 on November 04, 2011, 07:10:13 AM
No, not trying to look big in clubs for girls. Much more serious than that. At the moment I want to compete in some way, but even if my goals change in the future in relation to this, I know for sure I want to build and maintain a physique that is much more than is attainable natty.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on November 04, 2011, 07:10:57 AM
If you wanna be a pro bb than personally I wouldn't waste anytime. But why would anyone wanna be a pro bber  ???
if you are a working class smuck making the big money with injecting hormones and flexing in thongs seems appealing
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Xerxes on November 04, 2011, 07:33:59 AM
Your goal in life is to become a bodybuilder?  :-X ??? :'(
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on November 04, 2011, 07:35:22 AM
Your goal in life is to become a bodybuilder?  :-X ??? :'(

at least he has a goal, just not a realistic one


like me i used to want to be a pimp or brothel owner


but realistically


i dont see it happening  :-\
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Xerxes on November 04, 2011, 07:37:40 AM
at least he has a goal, just not a realistic one


like me i used to want to be a pimp or brothel owner


but realistically


i dont see it happening  :-\

You're wrong, it's very realistic, all he has to do is to shave tan and slap on a thong.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: SF1900 on November 04, 2011, 07:39:00 AM
Wow, another gimmick  ::) ::)
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on November 04, 2011, 07:40:29 AM
You're wrong, it's very realistic, all he has to do is to shave tan and slap on a thong.

look at bodybuilding expos, loads of young guys who want to be bodybuilders go there but they all look like twinks


and they are probably my size or bigger


so being a bodybuilder is hard


?

but if you use the right hormones being a bodybuilder is probably a LOT easier than being a pimp or brothel owner
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: JFree92 on November 04, 2011, 07:43:19 AM
Not saying I want to be pro exactly, I'm just saying that I would love to step on stage at one point. And I have the ambition to achieve a physique of a high level.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: goomba420 on November 04, 2011, 07:44:25 AM
Not saying I want to be pro exactly, I'm just saying that I would love to step on stage at one point. And I have the ambition to achieve a physique of a high level.

BUT DO YOU HAVE THE GENETICS
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on November 04, 2011, 07:46:49 AM
Not saying I want to be pro exactly, I'm just saying that I would love to step on stage at one point. And I have the ambition to achieve a physique of a high level.

maybe you should make it a policy to achieve x level of strength or size before you jump on the hormones


like 315 bench 405 squat 495 deadlift

just saying it doesn't make sense to do hormones right off the bat


good luck friend
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Xerxes on November 04, 2011, 07:52:29 AM
What the fuck is this shit? My head hurts, take this shit with you back to /fit/ where it belongs.  :-\

"Hey guys, I don't look like I train but I've decided to be a bodybuilder"

We don't give a shit, everyone here wants to look like a bodybuilder to some degree

See this, this is a guy who WANTS to become a bodybuilder:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=393184.msg5691530#msg5691530 (http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=393184.msg5691530#msg5691530)

Get on the juice, pussy. Or get some other "life goals"
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on November 04, 2011, 07:54:02 AM
What the fuck is this shit? My head hurts, take this shit with you back to /fit/ where it belongs.  :-\

"Hey guys, I don't look like I train but I've decided to be a bodybuilder"

We don't give a shit, everyone here wants to look like a bodybuilder to some degree

See this, this is a guy who WANTS to become a bodybuilder:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=393184.msg5691530#msg5691530 (http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=393184.msg5691530#msg5691530)

Get on the juice, pussy. Or get some other "life goals"

oh i get it, you want him to do some hater reps ::)
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: CalvinH on November 04, 2011, 07:54:11 AM
First question I'd ask is what are you trying to accomplish with your training?  Wanna look good in clubs and on the beach for girls?   Stay a natty and just train your butt off.  MHO, at 19 with barely a year of training under you belt you don't need to consider gear at all. 




You're no gh15 ,man of short shorts.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Tito24 on November 04, 2011, 07:57:32 AM
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: First Blood on November 04, 2011, 08:09:11 AM
Moloko were/are awesome.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: the trainer on November 04, 2011, 08:17:57 AM
I'm only 19 but have ambitions to go far in bodybuilding. I have been lifting for 1 year but most of this has been spent cutting from being a fat kunt. I have been reading info on getbig for a while now and am looking to start on gear sooner rather than later.

However, I lack a natural foundation atm and would not consider myself big in anyway. I have heard contrasting opinions on whether this is a problem or not.

This is my pic

(http://i41.tinypic.com/1584etw.jpg)


Get on steroids but be prepared to stay on for the rest of your life cause once you come off since you have no foundation you will go back to looking like you do now.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Man of Steel on November 04, 2011, 08:24:47 AM
I'm sorry, but you are spreading lies


You cannot look impressive in clubs while natty, cannot be done

naturals always always look small in clothes
LOL and what incentive do I have for lying?  An anonymous kid asked a question and I responded honestly.   
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: CalvinH on November 04, 2011, 08:25:42 AM
LOL and what incentive do I have for lying?  An anonymous kid asked a question and I responded honestly.   



You should know better then to tell the truth here.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on November 04, 2011, 08:26:00 AM
LOL and what incentive do I have for lying?  An anonymous kid asked a question and I responded honestly.   

when i was a clueless noob people told me the things you are telling him


and here i am now a good 5 years later and I still dont look like i lift in clothes
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Man of Steel on November 04, 2011, 08:26:57 AM
No, not trying to look big in clubs for girls. Much more serious than that. At the moment I want to compete in some way, but even if my goals change in the future in relation to this, I know for sure I want to build and maintain a physique that is much more than is attainable natty.

Ok, then you've answered you're own question or better yet you don't really have a question about using.  What you're wanting is someone to say, "go for it kid, start plunging those needles in you."
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: First Blood on November 04, 2011, 08:27:46 AM
The secret is to have many layers of clothes as a natural.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Man of Steel on November 04, 2011, 08:28:00 AM



You're no gh15 ,man of short shorts.

You got that right.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: CalvinH on November 04, 2011, 08:30:49 AM
You got that right.


But nobody can do a pose on the bathtub like you 8)
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: the trainer on November 04, 2011, 08:32:08 AM
If you want to look buff in the club as a natural you have to bulk, if you try to be 6% bodyfat once you put on clothes you will look like a skinny twink in the club.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Man of Steel on November 04, 2011, 08:33:44 AM
when i was a clueless noob people told me the things you are telling him


and here i am now a good 5 years later and I still dont look like i lift in clothes

given this is an anonymous bb board we can never be certain of a few things:

how you're training.
how hard you're training.
how consistently you're training.
whether or not you're a gimmick.

we all speak from personal experience.  I have lousy genetics and achieved a lot naturally.  I've witnessed others doing the same.  If you're a genuine account (not a gimmick) and have truly trained correctly, trained hard and trained consistently for 5 years and look no different in street clothes then you may be an exception to the rule.  either way, I ain't lying. 
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: First Blood on November 04, 2011, 08:34:20 AM
Yeah you will never be bodybuilding big as a natural with low BF%. Some guys may be tall and have a wide frame, but they won't be bodybuilding big in terms of muscle mass.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Man of Steel on November 04, 2011, 08:35:01 AM

But nobody can do a pose on the bathtub like you 8)

And don't you forget it!
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Man of Steel on November 04, 2011, 08:41:35 AM
Yeah you will never be bodybuilding big as a natural with low BF%. Some guys may be tall and have a wide frame, but they won't be bodybuilding big in terms of muscle mass.

Yes, I've seen the plight of many a juicebox time and again.  They start natty, train hard, start networking with the gearheads casually, start their first cycle, start a more aggresive cycle, start a really aggresive cycle, blow up on the sauce, look great, compete once and place well, compete twice and win a show, compete a third time at a bigger show and take 18th, train harder than ever before, compete a fourth time in another big show and take 17th, realize their pro bb dreams are a pipedream, revert back to personal training for awhile, moonlight as a bouncer, moonlight as a stripper, fall into a downward spiraling party scene, run outta cash, run outta gear, run outta size, quit training altogether (cause what's the point without the chemicals) and then dissappear from the face of the earth......seen a good 8 or 9 examples of some form of this situation.  Do all users end up like this?  Of course not.  Most casually use so they look good in a skintight glitter shirt at clubs.  Pick up a few super fine girls they never could've before and that's about it.  Regardless of rec drug use, bb drug use, etc....all can lead to some form of addiction.  Some folks are way stronger and more controlled than others and avoid the addiction, but the path is a slippery slope and many don't last.

Morality, integrity and values in regards to bb drug use is a non-issue on Getbig.  The attitude is "whatever gets you there is fair play".  In most cases we're dealing with young 20-something kids that have very few responsibilities in life.

I have lifted a lot more than that naturally and I don't look like a bb and never will cause I won't use.  See me at the local grocery store and many will think, "he's a big guy," but put me next to a juicebox with bb lines, density and low bodyfat and there's no comparison LOL!!

Without a doubt.  We look good in the gym, Walmart, Sears, family reunions, etc....., but in a truly competitive bb environment?  LOL!  We're just fat puds.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Hulkotron on November 04, 2011, 08:49:41 AM
You look like shit, hope this helps.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: JFree92 on November 04, 2011, 08:56:00 AM
You look like shit, hope this helps.

I know.

I feel like I should re-phrase my question.

Basically my goal is to be around about 210-220lbs at 6-8%. I want to achieve this by the time I'm 25/26. Therefore I am aware that I will need to be juicing and not only that but most likely on a blast/cruise for my life. I am ok with this but I want to make sure I do everything right and one thing I was worried about was starting the whole process when I look like I do. I was just wondering whether that would be a problem or whether I should devote more time to natural training first.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Hulkotron on November 04, 2011, 08:58:10 AM
I know.

I feel like I should re-phrase my question.

Basically my goal is to be around about 210-220lbs at 6-8%. I want to achieve this by the time I'm 25/26. Therefore I am aware that I will need to be juicing and not only that but most likely on a blast/cruise for my life. I am ok with this but I want to make sure I do everything right and one thing I was worried about was starting the whole process when I look like I do. I was just wondering whether that would be a problem or whether I should devote more time to natural training first.

It's just a meme around here duder, don't take it so hard  8)  Got to have a thick skin on GB.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Man of Steel on November 04, 2011, 09:07:06 AM
I know.

I feel like I should re-phrase my question.

Basically my goal is to be around about 210-220lbs at 6-8%. I want to achieve this by the time I'm 25/26. Therefore I am aware that I will need to be juicing and not only that but most likely on a blast/cruise for my life. I am ok with this but I want to make sure I do everything right and one thing I was worried about was starting the whole process when I look like I do. I was just wondering whether that would be a problem or whether I should devote more time to natural training first.

So you're content with becoming a drug addict for life?  Good luck kid.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Schmoff on November 04, 2011, 09:08:58 AM
12 posts

19 years old

you came here on getbig for gear information

ok


 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: JFree92 on November 04, 2011, 02:50:14 PM
I guess the general consensus is come back in 2 years then.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: First Blood on November 04, 2011, 02:58:50 PM
Man of steel: my post wasn't directed at you, it was a general statement.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: JFree92 on November 04, 2011, 03:35:03 PM
If anyone could direct gh15 to this thread I'd be grateful. I'd like to see what he would say. I'm not looking for someone to tell me to just do it, I'm not looking for an approval, just wanting a mixture of views.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Xerxes on November 04, 2011, 03:46:04 PM
 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Army of One on November 04, 2011, 04:36:57 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Q0rpKTgdL._SS500_.jpg)
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: abijahmaniaco on November 04, 2011, 09:37:12 PM
(http://i41.tinypic.com/1584etw.jpg)

first off, find some pants. :-X
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: abijahmaniaco on November 04, 2011, 09:49:02 PM
but seriously, you know, i um... spent all those years (10 years training) as a natty just busting my balls with unbelievable intensity and consistency and ALWAYS just driving myself further and further and never growing like i wanted to so i would think i was just doing something wrong. i would learn more and more about form and i upped the weight as much as i possibly could THINKING that if i could just do everything right then i would grow! well little did i know, i couldn't grow a lb past 180 no matter what i did. as an example of the extremes i went to: i used to do walking lunges with 225 almost (two plates on each side of the short straight bar) ten on each foot! AS A NATURAL! when top pros don't even do this!

what i'm getting at is all that time spent learning EVERYTHING i could and all this frustration payed off tremendously when i finally learned about gear and started using myself. so i think given my perspective i realized that i am SO MUCH MORE APPRECIATIVE of certain tools than someone who could be just handed everything he needed on a silver platter!

YOU TAKE FOR GRANTED WHAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORK FOR AND THE HARDER YOU HAVE TO WORK FOR SOMETHING THE MORE YOU WILL APPRECIATE IT!!!
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: abijahmaniaco on November 04, 2011, 09:57:55 PM
my only advice for you right now

learn how to eat
dont waste your money on supplements besides the basics
dont over train.. get your rest..

do this for a few months you should be able to gain a decent amount.. otherwise you'll be like the many people i see who get on gear straight away, gain like 20lb then have a hard time gaining even with gear in the future lol

supplements are absolutely useless (in the way of muscle building). FOOD FOOD FOOD. i'm taking zero supplements (aside from glucosamine for my joints) and have gained 18lbs in 3.5 weeks on juice. there's no way i would have gained any more than that with an added sawdust-shake thrown in there. if you want to eat. eat real meat, clean, lean, and mean!
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: JFree92 on November 05, 2011, 01:17:35 AM
Only problem with the 'eat,eat,eat' agenda is that i put on fat really easy.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: WillGrant on November 05, 2011, 01:36:18 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/ZWmvV.jpg)
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: The Grim Lifter on November 05, 2011, 02:34:17 AM
At least 2.5 years, probably 3 or just over. After that if you're not happy with the size you have then fucking juice. At least get the natural gains first, other than experience it makes the juicing much more worthwhile and you will kill those dweebs that juice from the outset.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: JFree92 on November 05, 2011, 04:49:11 AM
Is the main reason I should wait just incase I don't want to use gear anymore, or is there actually a problem posed with starting before your natural base is there or not?
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: abijahmaniaco on November 05, 2011, 08:49:00 AM
BUT DO YOU HAVE THE GENETICS

it's not like there's a way to know this ahead of time...

(http://petesteel.com/PRO'S/nasser%20elotte%20utana.jpg)
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: abijahmaniaco on November 05, 2011, 08:50:06 AM
maybe you should make it a policy to achieve x level of strength or size before you jump on the hormones


like 315 bench 405 squat 495 deadlift

just saying it doesn't make sense to do hormones right off the bat


good luck friend

sounds like a good way to injure yourself ::)

You look like shit, hope this helps.

man, don't listen to this douche. you're lean and that's certainly an accomplishment in the obesity age! plus, you're just a kid. my god...
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: JFree92 on November 05, 2011, 11:46:55 AM
Thanks. I know that I have by no means whatsoever a good physique at the moment. That's pretty much the point of this whole post, I'm wondering whether that is a problem before starting juicing or whether you can build your foundation on AAS like gh15 says.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: abijahmaniaco on November 05, 2011, 01:30:58 PM
When you jump on gear is up to you, but I would definitely not train as a natty for more then three years given your intentions. I say that just bc I made all the gains I was gonna make as a natty from 14 to 17.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: JFree92 on November 05, 2011, 01:39:32 PM
So if i jump on without having a good base, it wouldn't mean that I grow out of proportion or end up looking shitty or anything? The idea of training natty is just to learn your body/diet etc?
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Dr Dutch on November 05, 2011, 01:46:10 PM
What the fuck is this shit? My head hurts, take this shit with you back to /fit/ where it belongs.  :-\

"Hey guys, I don't look like I train but I've decided to be a bodybuilder"

We don't give a shit, everyone here wants to look like a bodybuilder to some degree

See this, this is a guy who WANTS to become a bodybuilder:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=393184.msg5691530#msg5691530 (http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=393184.msg5691530#msg5691530)

Get on the juice, pussy. Or get some other "life goals"
You impress me as quite uptight in this thread, Cyrus. That's not your normal way of posting. You're ok ?
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: hematocritter on November 05, 2011, 01:50:47 PM
Make sure you can gain some muscle natty before jumping on the AAS.
You'll just waste the hormones if you don't know how to grow in the first place.
I speak from experience.
I jumped on right after I started lifting. I didn't know what the hell I was doing. Learn to eat and train first, then jump on.
If you don't know what to do or where to start, hire someone.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Dr Dutch on November 05, 2011, 01:53:17 PM
Make sure you can gain some muscle natty before jumping on the AAS.
You'll just waste the hormones if you don't know how to grow in the first place.
I speak from experience.
I jumped on right after I started lifting. I didn't know what the hell I was doing. Learn to eat and train first, then jump on.
If you don't know what to do or where to start, hire someone.
This is very true. Train your balls off, diet away most of the fat, and when you start a cycle then and eat like there's no tomorrow that stretchmark will be a-plenty....
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: JFree92 on November 05, 2011, 01:58:15 PM
And when I eventually do jump on, do you reccomend blasting and cruising with tren from the off or simple test cycles?
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Dr Dutch on November 05, 2011, 02:01:38 PM
Latter and don't stack at first you gotta be patient and find out how you respond to the individual things and then to the combi's...
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: JFree92 on November 05, 2011, 02:17:59 PM
Thanks very much. So you wouldn't think it wise to follow the advise of gh15 and just jump on blast/cruise for life at the start as apparently you can't keep your gains from cycles.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: First Blood on November 05, 2011, 02:19:50 PM
Train hard and seriously for 3 years before you start or consider using drugs.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Borracho on November 05, 2011, 02:19:57 PM
Thanks very much. So you wouldn't think it wise to follow the advise of gh15 and just jump on blast/cruise for life at the start as apparently you can't keep your gains from cycles.

One step at a time sport!
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Cutlet767 on November 05, 2011, 02:36:56 PM
Thanks very much. So you wouldn't think it wise to follow the advise of gh15 and just jump on blast/cruise for life at the start as apparently you can't keep your gains from cycles.

You shouldn't step into a gym without Tren and GH in your blood.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: JFree92 on November 05, 2011, 02:45:00 PM
lol so many conflicting responses.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: goomba420 on November 05, 2011, 02:46:55 PM
 
lol so many conflicting responses.

man up and start pinning u know u want to
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Dr Dutch on November 05, 2011, 02:48:06 PM
Thanks very much. So you wouldn't think it wise to follow the advise of gh15 and just jump on blast/cruise for life at the start as apparently you can't keep your gains from cycles.
I would dare going against gh15 on this forum, with all his followers I's risk a suicide terrorist attack, but I think he's not a former pro but some wise ass nobody form Jerkwater USA....
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: NYSTATEOFMIND on November 05, 2011, 02:52:42 PM
(http://i41.tinypic.com/1584etw.jpg)

this is exactly whats fucked up about bodybuilding

no offense but it doesnt look like you have ever touched a weight and you are ALREADY looking into juicing? my lawd

build ya foundation first!!!

you start to early and you will look burnt by 24 and then getbig will laugh you off he board for starting juice to early in life

build ya foundation kid..seriously
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Dr Dutch on November 05, 2011, 02:55:21 PM
I still think you're a gimmick but this forum drives people into a paranoid state of mind, so forgive me if I'm wrong and don't take it personally....
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: hematocritter on November 05, 2011, 03:14:13 PM
lol so many conflicting responses.

Use common sense. The people who are saying to jump on are being sarcastic/hardcore/joking.
It would be like just learning how to drive, but rushing out and buying a supercharger for your car. You'll just end up crashing.
Learn to drive, then add the power.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Dr Dutch on November 05, 2011, 03:15:39 PM
Use common sense. The people who are saying to jump on are being sarcastic/hardcore/joking.
It would be like just learning how to drive, but rushing out and buying a supercharger for your car. You'll just end up crashing.
Learn to drive, then add the power.
This, but now I am wondering who's gimmick YOU are...... ::)
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: JFree92 on November 05, 2011, 03:20:49 PM
I'm not a gimmick. I'm just very interested in bb'ing and have been reading forums on here for a while. The general impression I got was that you should start juicing as any time training naturally is wasted time. But to be honest I had my doubts which is why I started this thread.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: NYSTATEOFMIND on November 05, 2011, 03:26:06 PM
I'm not a gimmick. I'm just very interested in bb'ing and have been reading forums on here for a while. The general impression I got was that you should start juicing as any time training naturally is wasted time. But to be honest I had my doubts which is why I started this thread.

STOP TAKING ALL YOUR ADVICE FROM GETBIG!!!

it only seems like a waste when you want to take ya body to the "next level"

but get to level one first before you think about the dark side
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: JFree92 on November 05, 2011, 03:33:39 PM
Getbig seemed like the best place to get advice on juicing. All the other boardings are very hostile towards anyone who starts before the age of 30 and isn't on just a test cycle.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Dr Dutch on November 05, 2011, 03:34:52 PM
Getbig seemed like the best place to get advice on juicing. All the other boardings are very hostile towards anyone who starts before the age of 30 and isn't on just a test cycle.
You are correct. You just have to endure the shit first... ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: JFree92 on November 05, 2011, 03:35:52 PM
I'm here to learn. I'm willing to take the abuse first if its necessary.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Cutlet767 on November 05, 2011, 03:40:28 PM
Look at your body very seriously. Do you REALLY think you can put on muscle without large amounts of anabolics? If after you answered that question and have not started putting in your order for the necessary hormones, I fear that you may have a serious case of retardation. You won't even put on 5lbs of muscle with the genetics you have. And you will be lucky to make it to 180 without GH.

Get a source. And stay on. Be grateful you heard this here before you wasted 4 years using danta protein.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: hematocritter on November 05, 2011, 04:10:45 PM
This, but now I am wondering who's gimmick YOU are...... ::)

I am just a nobody. I came to getbig after seeing GH15 being brought up on just about every other board. I came to see what all the fuss was about, and ended up
reading a lot of old posts and finding some useful information.
But to be honest with you, I am a little weirded out by all this gimmick stuff. Some of it looks to be harmless fun, but from what I've read in some older posts, it is a little scary
to see how many supposedly grown men are on here with alter egos that have been going for 5+ years.
This is my first account on getbig, and I promise you, it will be my only account. I am not into that sort of stuff. I feel the time I spend looking at these type of forums is already
a bad habit, I don't have any desire to create a fake persona to add to that.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: The Grim Lifter on November 05, 2011, 04:12:48 PM
I am just a nobody. I came to getbig after seeing GH15 being brought up on just about every other board. I came to see what all the fuss was about, and ended up
reading a lot of old posts and finding some useful information.
But to be honest with you, I am a little weirded out by all this gimmick stuff. Some of it looks to be harmless fun, but from what I've read in some older posts, it is a little scary
to see how many supposedly grown men are on here with alter egos that have been going for 5+ years.
This is my first account on getbig, and I promise you, it will be my only account. I am not into that sort of stuff. I feel the time I spend looking at these type of forums is already
a bad habit, I don't have any desire to create a fake persona to add to that.

Yeh i remember saying all that too when i was a new poster
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: slaveboy1980 on November 05, 2011, 04:24:18 PM
tranny material
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: JFree92 on November 05, 2011, 04:24:39 PM
OK I think the general persuasion is that I should train natty for 2-3 years more then consider aas when I'm 21/22. I think I'll go with that.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: slaveboy1980 on November 05, 2011, 04:26:37 PM
no you should come full circle and become a woman

tyson will fuck you till you love him
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: JFree92 on November 05, 2011, 04:59:18 PM
Ok..
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: abijahmaniaco on November 05, 2011, 05:31:19 PM
So if i jump on without having a good base, it wouldn't mean that I grow out of proportion or end up looking shitty or anything?

no. i mean, not unless your training is disproportionate. obviously balance all your muscle groups in your weekly split. i shouldn't have to tell you this. you should know this by now.

The idea of training natty is just to learn your body/diet etc?

well yeah and it's to build...  a "foundation". which to be honest idk how much truth there is to this concept. sounds more like bro-science to me. nevertheless, i would say, you should be able to handle consistent high intensity workouts both physically and mentally (which takes some getting used to) and know how to achieve targeted stimulation and accomplish your own mind-muscle connections.

also, something to consider: if you haven't reached your potential height yet. (i believe you said you were 19 and most men grow a little into their early 20's) and you take compounds that aromatize you could sell yourself short height-wise by prematurely closing growth plates. (there is scientific proof of this)

This is very true. Train your balls off, diet away most of the fat, and when you start a cycle then and eat like there's no tomorrow that stretchmark will be a-plenty....

what fat??? the kid has virtually none.

Thanks very much. So you wouldn't think it wise to follow the advise of gh15 and just jump on blast/cruise for life at the start as apparently you can't keep your gains from cycles.

you can keep the muscle if aas just helped you reach your natural limit faster than without. however, anything above that is going to require exogenous hormones to maintain obviously. looking at your body, i'd say, you could do a cycle of test and deca. (i wouldn't even bother with dbol right away) test and deca is the safest most proven cycle there is imo. if you do things right you'll gain between 20 and 30lbs. if you take some clomid + nolva (and optimally some hcg at the end) and jump off gear theoretically you could keep most of that, take four months off, and decide what to do from there. and of course at that point it's either maintain your natural max (that you reached via unnatural methods) or be on hormones for basically the rest of your life like most of us here in the cult.

You shouldn't step into a gym without Tren and GH in your blood.

he's just being silly. tren is not for beginners. and hgh is unnecessary at your age.

Getbig seemed like the best place to get advice on juicing. All the other boardings are very hostile towards anyone who starts before the age of 30 and isn't on just a test cycle.

yeah, you've came to the right place...

Look at your body very seriously. Do you REALLY think you can put on muscle without large amounts of anabolics? If after you answered that question and have not started putting in your order for the necessary hormones, I fear that you may have a serious case of retardation. You won't even put on 5lbs of muscle with the genetics you have. And you will be lucky to make it to 180 without GH.

Get a source. And stay on. Be grateful you heard this here before you wasted 4 years using danta protein.

i have to side with this guy. :-\ after 10 years of training 176lbs was where my body would sit at 5'11". no matter what i did it would never go one lb above 180. like i said before: don't wait more than three years.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: JFree92 on November 05, 2011, 05:54:29 PM
Thanks abijahmaniaco your posts are very helpful. In terms of my height, I'm already just under 6'4 so don't really have any problems in that area and I also believe that my training is dialed in very nicely along with my diet. I still do, however, hold fat around my midsection which really bothers me and I hate bulking just because I feel like I should get rid of that before I bulk - I think it has something to do with the fact that just 9 months ago I looked like this - http://i39.tinypic.com/9rrhu9.jpg. Took me alot to lose that and keep motivating myself but I seriously believe I have what it takes to train and diet consistently. I didn't eat a calorie over 2000 for about 4 months when trying to lose that weight.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: YngiweRhoads on November 05, 2011, 06:09:24 PM
I'm on year 29 of building my natural foundation. Haven't quite got there yet.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: JFree92 on November 05, 2011, 06:12:27 PM
You have a solid build man but see I don't want to wait till I'm 40 or whatever to achieve such a build. I admire your effort and dedication but I feel that if I put a similar level of dedication into my physique with the aid of hormones I could achieve a lot given that I do things right.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: YngiweRhoads on November 05, 2011, 06:17:31 PM
You have a solid build man but see I don't want to wait till I'm 40 or whatever to achieve such a build. I admire your effort and dedication but I feel that if I put a similar level of dedication into my physique with the aid of hormones I could achieve a lot given that I do things right.

Take acid bro, it'll benefit you more than gear.  ;)
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Hulkotron on November 05, 2011, 06:17:54 PM
(http://i41.tinypic.com/1584etw.jpg)

this is exactly whats fucked up about bodybuilding

no offense but it doesnt look like you have ever touched a weight and you are ALREADY looking into juicing? my lawd

build ya foundation first!!!

you start to early and you will look burnt by 24 and then getbig will laugh you off he board for starting juice to early in life

build ya foundation kid..seriously

x2 Yeah if you want to build some muscle maybe try working out for a while first before spending hundreds of dollars on drugs, just a thought.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: JFree92 on November 05, 2011, 06:28:32 PM
Take acid bro, it'll benefit you more than gear.  ;)

I didn't mean to sound offensive..
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Army of One on November 05, 2011, 06:53:06 PM


you can keep the muscle if aas just helped you reach your natural limit faster than without

That goes against everything I have ever read, dos anyone have any studies or articles from well respected experts in the field to prove\disprove this?I have always been led to believe that any drug gains would be lost on ceasing all use of them.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: wes on November 05, 2011, 06:56:20 PM
It`s not a concern at all........building a foundation is overated.

Just jump on a boatload of gear from the onset of your "training",and do plenty of crossovers,pulldowns,cable curls,pressdowns,and use the big blue rubber inflatable ball for all of your exercises............... ..........good to go!!
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: JFree92 on November 06, 2011, 01:25:59 AM
So.much.sarcasm
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: gh15 on November 06, 2011, 02:00:08 AM
I'm only 19 but have ambitions to go far in bodybuilding. I have been lifting for 1 year but most of this has been spent cutting from being a fat kunt. I have been reading info on getbig for a while now and am looking to start on gear sooner rather than later.

However, I lack a natural foundation atm and would not consider myself big in anyway. I have heard contrasting opinions on whether this is a problem or not.

This is my pic

(http://i41.tinypic.com/1584etw.jpg)

you need some more natural size,,you are lean but you need some more thickness that can come naturaly even if it is with little fat,, try to get another year in gymnaisum mayeb 2 ,, 20-21 iearly enough for hormones,, you are not 35 here...we talk hee teenager,, another year or 2 and youll be ready ,, but meanwhile get everything right,, this one year get everything right then this time next year start it

you can start right now but it will just bring you to your natural best when you can get ther eyourself  since you are lean enough to get thee,, if you were thin and NOT lean then i would say something diff,, but since you are lean ....get another year and then get on

gh15 approved
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: JFree92 on November 06, 2011, 02:01:34 AM
you need some more natural size,,you are lean but you need some more thickness that can come naturaly even if it is with little fat,, try to get another year in gymnaisum mayeb 2 ,, 20-21 iearly enough for hormones,, you are not 35 here...we talk hee teenager,, another year or 2 and youll be ready ,, but meanwhile get everything right,, this one year get everything right then this time next year start it

you can start right now but it will just bring you to your natural best when you can get ther eyourself  since you are lean enough to get thee,, if you were thin and NOT lean then i would say something diff,, but since you are lean ....get another year and then get on

gh15 approved

Thank you very much. Is there a certain weight/look I should go for before jumping on or just when I feel I hit a big plateau. I'm 6'3, 185lbs just now.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Steve Namat on November 06, 2011, 02:08:57 AM
I'm only 19 but have ambitions to go far in bodybuilding. I have been lifting for 1 year but most of this has been spent cutting from being a fat kunt. I have been reading info on getbig for a while now and am looking to start on gear sooner rather than later.

However, I lack a natural foundation atm and would not consider myself big in anyway. I have heard contrasting opinions on whether this is a problem or not.

This is my pic

(http://i41.tinypic.com/1584etw.jpg)
I would wait because you have no muscles yet and first you have to learn a lot about training and nutrition.

So keep training hard naturally and stay focused!

I started using "supplements" when I was 19...but at that time I was already working so hard eating tons of food for 3 years and looked like this...

5'7" - 169-170 lbs

Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: whitewidow on November 06, 2011, 02:18:04 AM
this thread is a joke! somebody on the other end is laughing theirr as off at you guys responding! that picture is bullshit its a gimmick. If this is true and this kid ran a cycle his liver and kidneys would shutdown! he is no where close to be using AAS. he needs years of training and eating correctly and even then I dont think he would be ready, this is just a joke!
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: gh15 on November 06, 2011, 02:38:32 AM
he is not joking,, i have 100s pms a week and the ones who write and btoher to do so are  very serious ,, he wrote a pm i just chose to answer it here,,no oen would jsut ask for advice just to fool around ,, he is teenager that like working out and bodybuilding

Please can you take a look at my thread and see what you think, I need some good advice and all I seem to be getting is hate.


gh15 approved
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: JFree92 on November 06, 2011, 03:24:50 AM
I don't see why you think this is a gimmick. I don't see what I would gain from doing so? Also, Steve, thanks for your reply.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Dr Dutch on November 06, 2011, 03:30:08 AM
I don't see why you think this is a gimmick. I don't see what I would gain from doing so? Also, Steve, thanks for your reply.
Because it's mass-hysteria-paranoia about gimmicks month at getbig..
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: JFree92 on November 06, 2011, 03:48:34 AM
Well I can assure you this is my first and only account, and I'm just here for advice and to learn.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: abijahmaniaco on November 06, 2011, 05:32:48 AM
That goes against everything I have ever read, dos anyone have any studies or articles from well respected experts in the field to prove\disprove this?I have always been led to believe that any drug gains would be lost on ceasing all use of them.

ok, you ask so i tell, even though god himself already confirmed this above.

this is from, like most of the things i learned initially, llewellyn.

Are the gains from stroid use temporary?

Yes, and no. Steroids can help you do two basic things with regard to muscle growth. First, they can allow you to more rapidly reach your genetic limits for muscle growth. Provided you continue to train actively, eat properly, and use an effective PCT program, you should be able to maintain at your genetic limit indefinitely. So in this regard, the early gains do not have to be temporary.

Later, steroids can allow you to push well beyond your genetic limits. It is important to emphasize this, as extreme physical development cannot be maintained long-term without the repeat administration of anabolic substances. The body will always revert back towards its normal metabolic limits once AAS are removed. In this context, some of the gains will not be permanent.

Steroids do permanently alter the physiology of your muscles by adding more cellular nuclei. With higher nuclei content, each muscle cell can manage it's volume more efficiently, which allows more rapid expansion. Even after a long period of complete abstinence from training and AAS, the nuclei remain. This may provide a "muscle memory" effect, allowing you to reach your genetic limit (perhaps a slightly extended limit) faster than if you had never used AAS in the past So in this regard, there are lasting benefits beyond the temporary increase in muscle size itself.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Army of One on November 06, 2011, 05:44:28 AM
ok, you ask so i tell, even though god himself already confirmed this above.

this is from, like most of the things i learned initially, llewellyn.

Are the gains from stroid use temporary?

Yes, and no. Steroids can help you do two basic things with regard to muscle growth. First, they can allow you to more rapidly reach your genetic limits for muscle growth. Provided you continue to train actively, eat properly, and use an effective PCT program, you should be able to maintain at your genetic limit indefinitely. So in this regard, the early gains do not have to be temporary.

Later, steroids can allow you to push well beyond your genetic limits. It is important to emphasize this, as extreme physical development cannot be maintained long-term without the repeat administration of anabolic substances. The body will always revert back towards its normal metabolic limits once AAS are removed. In this context, some of the gains will not be permanent.

Steroids do permanently alter the physiology of your muscles by adding more cellular nuclei. With higher nuclei content, each muscle cell can manage it's volume more efficiently, which allows more rapid expansion. Even after a long period of complete abstinence from training and AAS, the nuclei remain. This may provide a "muscle memory" effect, allowing you to reach your genetic limit (perhaps a slightly extended limit) faster than if you had never used AAS in the past So in this regard, there are lasting benefits beyond the temporary increase in muscle size itself.

Interesting, so the natural foundation thing is bs\broscience
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: abijahmaniaco on November 06, 2011, 05:45:08 AM
(http://64.19.142.11/www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=401137.0;attach=440124;image)

don't let this image intimidate you, thinking you have to be this big before jumping on hormones. his natural/hormonized status in this pic is debatable. i think even gh15 said he is not natural in this pic. no disrespect to namat but i'll admit i don't believe he's natural here.

you have to realize that a lot of bodybuilders feel that credit is being taken away from them if they acknowledge steroid use despite ALL THE HARD WORK they put in (and this is true). so instead they typically downplay the role of hormones in their success. (or completely deny) lol gustavo badell ;D
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Borracho on November 06, 2011, 05:47:29 AM
ok, you ask so i tell, even though god himself already confirmed this above.

this is from, like most of the things i learned initially, llewellyn.

Are the gains from stroid use temporary?

Yes, and no. Steroids can help you do two basic things with regard to muscle growth. First, they can allow you to more rapidly reach your genetic limits for muscle growth. Provided you continue to train actively, eat properly, and use an effective PCT program, you should be able to maintain at your genetic limit indefinitely. So in this regard, the early gains do not have to be temporary.

Later, steroids can allow you to push well beyond your genetic limits. It is important to emphasize this, as extreme physical development cannot be maintained long-term without the repeat administration of anabolic substances. The body will always revert back towards its normal metabolic limits once AAS are removed. In this context, some of the gains will not be permanent.

Steroids do permanently alter the physiology of your muscles by adding more cellular nuclei. With higher nuclei content, each muscle cell can manage it's volume more efficiently, which allows more rapid expansion. Even after a long period of complete abstinence from training and AAS, the nuclei remain. This may provide a "muscle memory" effect, allowing you to reach your genetic limit (perhaps a slightly extended limit) faster than if you had never used AAS in the past So in this regard, there are lasting benefits beyond the temporary increase in muscle size itself.

Makes sense, but if someone ends up fucking up their endocrine system due to hormone abuse than they'll be worse off in the end.  
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: snexer on November 06, 2011, 07:06:55 AM
Makes sense, but if someone ends up fucking up their endocrine system due to hormone abuse than they'll be worse off in the end.  
that is why you NEVER go off.

your own testosterone production is an inferior mechanism. so who gives a shit about your natty test when you can have the test levels of a 20 year old when your 75
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Borracho on November 06, 2011, 07:15:08 AM
that is why you NEVER go off.

your own testosterone production is an inferior mechanism. so who gives a shit about your natty test when you can have the test levels of a 20 year old when your 75

LOL

I doubt a lot of people who are abusers live to be 75. I wouldn't wanna live that long anyway.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Samourai Pizzacat on November 06, 2011, 09:47:21 AM
Why try to run before you can walk?

Train natural for 2-3 years at the minimum. See how your body changes, you might have completely different ideas/ambitions body-wise in a few years. You can look impressive to the general public as natural.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: JFree92 on November 06, 2011, 11:06:28 AM
OK thanks guys. I decided I'm going to try and bulk natty untill October 2012 and then re-evaluate.

Just one more thing, I've seen a few of you guys state that you think I'm pretty lean but I hold a lot of fat on my back, do you think I should cut this off first before I bulk and what bf is this I'm at now?

(http://i42.tinypic.com/16jeans.jpg)
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: abijahmaniaco on November 06, 2011, 12:04:36 PM
OK thanks guys. I decided I'm going to try and bulk natty untill October 2012 and then re-evaluate.

Just one more thing, I've seen a few of you guys state that you think I'm pretty lean but I hold a lot of fat on my back, do you think I should cut this off first before I bulk and what bf is this I'm at now?

(http://i42.tinypic.com/16jeans.jpg)

yeah, i can see some fat now in this photo. well, keep in mind the more muscle you have the easier it is to get ripped. so just clean up the diet (cutting out empty calories) and train. if you wanna accelerate the process throw in some cardio optimally at a separate time from your weight training.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: gh15 on November 06, 2011, 12:06:37 PM
Well I can assure you this is my first and only account, and I'm just here for advice and to learn.

whats yoru weight? and height
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: JFree92 on November 06, 2011, 12:15:12 PM
just under 6'4 and I weigh 185lbs. I used to weigh 240 in that pic I posted earlier in the thread.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: gh15 on November 06, 2011, 12:17:45 PM
just under 6'4 and I weigh 185lbs. I used to weigh 240 in that pic I posted earlier in the thread.

you will blow up to 260lb 8-10% on hormones,, one day you will beteh biggest fella in your gymnasium andall around,,not sure competetive,, but from your build...you will blow up crazy one day,,give it some more natural time,, but rememebr what i toldf you when you sit in that gym in 6 years with your weekly coctail waitress ,, remember what good old gh15 told you back in 2011,, you wil blow up big time


gh15 approved
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Dr Dutch on November 06, 2011, 12:18:20 PM
just under 6'4 and I weigh 185lbs. I used to weigh 240 in that pic I posted earlier in the thread.
you were 240 in tis pic ?  
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: JFree92 on November 06, 2011, 12:20:02 PM
lol no sorry meant this pic - http://i39.tinypic.com/9rrhu9.jpg
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Swlabr on November 06, 2011, 12:20:10 PM
you will blow up to 260lb 8-10% on hormones,, one day you will beteh biggest fella in your gymnasium andall around,,not sure competetive,, but from your build...you will blow up crazy one day,,give it some more natural time,, but rememebr what i toldf you when you sit in that gym in 6 years with your weekly coctail waitress ,, remember what good old gh15 told you back in 2011,, you wil blow up big time


gh15 approved

Can everyone blow up like that, or is this féllá special?
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Dr Dutch on November 06, 2011, 12:21:10 PM
lol no sorry meant this pic - http://i39.tinypic.com/9rrhu9.jpg
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: gh15 on November 06, 2011, 12:22:17 PM
this fella is special ,, you have here daddy waddy in a way ,, those fellas on hormone blow up to such impressive level ,, not competetive but gymnasium level,, they always have their little coctail waitres ro stripper next to them they change them every few weeks,, but yes this fella status of height and he is umm nto ripped since not much muscle but he is leaner much leaner than average fellas...so height and weight on him right now,, he iwll blow 260 on hormones and good 260

gh15 approved
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: JFree92 on November 06, 2011, 12:22:51 PM
you will blow up to 260lb 8-10% on hormones,, one day you will beteh biggest fella in your gymnasium andall around,,not sure competetive,, but from your build...you will blow up crazy one day,,give it some more natural time,, but rememebr what i toldf you when you sit in that gym in 6 years with your weekly coctail waitress ,, remember what good old gh15 told you back in 2011,, you wil blow up big time


gh15 approved

Thanks, that gives me great motivation. Do you think that training till around the end of 2012 natural is enough time or should I give it longer. I just find it hard to permabulk without worrying about the fat. I feel like I'm sitting at around 13% atm
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: gh15 on November 06, 2011, 12:24:30 PM
Thanks, that gives me great motivation. Do you think that training till around the end of 2012 natural is enough time or should I give it longer. I just find it hard to permabulk without worrying about the fat. I feel like I'm sitting at around 13% atm

you shudl pretty easily be 210-220lb naturaly at 12-14% ,,get there first

then on hormones you will really look impressive and fresakish

gh15 approved
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Swlabr on November 06, 2011, 12:25:12 PM
On an unrelated note:

Are oats gh15 approved? Oats (and rice) are my only sources of carbs.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: gh15 on November 06, 2011, 12:25:47 PM
On an unrelated note:

Are oats gh15 approved? Oats (and rice) are my only sources of carbs.

yes they are,, only write it 400 time in bible

gh15 approved
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Swlabr on November 06, 2011, 12:26:08 PM
,, lol,,
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Dr Dutch on November 06, 2011, 12:27:10 PM
you shudl pretty easily be 210-220lb naturaly at 12-14% ,,get there first

then on hormones you will really look impressive and fresakish

gh15 approved
Looks like our little friend got himself a guru........good luck I mean that !    :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: JFree92 on November 06, 2011, 12:27:21 PM
you shudl pretty easily be 210-220lb naturaly at 12-14% ,,get there first

then on hormones you will really look impressive and fresakish

gh15 approved

Ok thanks. I'll try and keep getbig updated, if they want to know that is. Am I right in saying I'm around 12-14 just now?
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: gh15 on November 06, 2011, 12:30:00 PM
you are 12% but not much muscle so you cant see it  as well as othr 10-12%,,ned more muscle,, when density come and thicknes come yuo will see it better,, you can easily do it by the wsay ,,easly!

gh15 approved
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: gh15 on November 06, 2011, 12:34:57 PM
dont diregard fat,, you ae not in mid singles,, but! eat eat eat and eat good calories in ,, in your case since you are natural still you will need good calories and on the clock eating ,, every 2-3 hours boom a meal,, it will put you in the 210 zone then from then on go freaky

gh15 approved
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: JFree92 on November 06, 2011, 12:38:21 PM
Ok but I'll try and stop being a pussy about my love handles. Every time I bulk I always feel like stopping because of them. Probably due to my fear of getting fat again like I used be.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Steve Namat on November 06, 2011, 12:40:28 PM
(http://64.19.142.11/www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=401137.0;attach=440124;image)

don't let this image intimidate you, thinking you have to be this big before jumping on hormones. his natural/hormonized status in this pic is debatable. i think even gh15 said he is not natural in this pic. no disrespect to namat but i'll admit i don't believe he's natural here.

you have to realize that a lot of bodybuilders feel that credit is being taken away from them if they acknowledge steroid use despite ALL THE HARD WORK they put in (and this is true). so instead they typically downplay the role of hormones in their success. (or completely deny) lol gustavo badell ;D
Being a bodybuilder is impossible without gear...for most of the guys even the beach body is impossible naturally. But if you are totally beginner...you don't need gear...

Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Kulutues on November 06, 2011, 12:44:33 PM
Steve...not everyone is 5 foot 2 inches tall like you and fills out after 1 week of training
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: gh15 on November 06, 2011, 12:47:26 PM
Steve...not everyone is 5 foot 2 inches tall like you and fills out after 1 week of training

nothing to do with filing out,, only picture that could pass for natural is the first one from left,, rest...if you know hormones ,, if you make money of bodybuild like i do ....you would know the chages in the face ,, the skin changes ,, the lean muscula rgrowth with less bodyfat ...only come from hormones,,

i told you before 170 5'10! 6% is best you will see as natursal ,, true natural ,, for a 5'7 it is 150,, maybe 155 if reallly !!! reallllllllllllllly lucky an wear heavy shoes lol

gh15 approved
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Steve Namat on November 06, 2011, 12:48:59 PM
Steve...not everyone is 5 foot 2 inches tall like you and fills out after 1 week of training
LOL!
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Steve Namat on November 06, 2011, 12:50:24 PM
nothing to do with filing out,, only picture that could pass for natural is the first one from left,, rest...if you know hormones ,, if you make money of bodybuild like i do ....you would know the chages in the face ,, the skin changes ,, the lean muscula rgrowth with less bodyfat ...only come from hormones,,

i told you before 170 5'10! 6% is best you will see as natursal ,, true natural ,, for a 5'7 it is 150,, maybe 155 if reallly !!! reallllllllllllllly lucky an wear heavy shoes lol

gh15 approved
Yea of course... 1st pic natural, 2nd not... And the funny thing is, the bodyweight was the same...
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: gh15 on November 06, 2011, 12:53:30 PM
bodyweight has nothing to do with hormonal usage,, indoniaisn  fella of mine,, spoke about him before,, coimpeted 140s 150s...5'7 wiped floor with 180s ,, he was 148 on stage looked like ebony moutain of muscles,,

bodyweight has nothnig to do with hormonal usage,, hgh will take a physiqe and make it look night and day on same body weight,,

as i said before...you can hav e195 lb and then you can HAVE 195lb!  ,, with out hgh 210lb will ben smaller than 195 lb fella same height ....he wil be smaller as in less lean muscle

gh15 approved
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Steve Namat on November 06, 2011, 12:58:44 PM
hgh will take a physiqe and make it look night and day on same body weight,,
That's what I'm sayin...it's interesting how can you look so much better at the same bodyweight, with better condition and muscularity.

Haven't used gh at that time tho.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: wes on November 06, 2011, 01:03:29 PM
you were 240 in tis pic ? 
You have no business using steroids........fuck what anyone else tells you.

Train for a few years and build some size,then see what your genetic potential looks like.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Fitness4Life on November 06, 2011, 01:07:04 PM
mackauly kulkin ?
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: wes on November 06, 2011, 01:11:01 PM
Looking for that magic pill without having to do the necessary work.


Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: wes on November 06, 2011, 01:12:08 PM
mackauly kulkin ?
(http://d1o107.telia.com/~u139602049/macknowing.jpeg)
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Fitness4Life on November 06, 2011, 01:15:11 PM
(http://d1o107.telia.com/~u139602049/macknowing.jpeg)

lmao, exact replica!  oh god, culkin on steroids here he comes
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: apply85 on November 06, 2011, 01:26:47 PM
steve still thinks we are stupid
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Steve Namat on November 06, 2011, 01:28:13 PM
steve still thinks we are stupid
Yes, many of you...including you. But it's still a good place tho.  ;D
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Hulkotron on November 06, 2011, 01:29:05 PM
Being a bodybuilder is impossible without gear...for most of the guys even the beach body is impossible naturally. But if you are totally beginner...you don't need gear...



Looks like you about doubled your arm size there Steve.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: apply85 on November 06, 2011, 01:32:14 PM
Yes, many of you...including you. But it's still a good place tho.  ;D

I'm sorry you looked like absolute shit without drugs, really I am, more like skeleton of shit lol
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Steve Namat on November 06, 2011, 01:37:12 PM
I'm sorry you looked like absolute shit without drugs, really I am, more like skeleton of shit lol
Anyway I won two shows that year...including the junior nationals... Mr. "100 pound pulldown in yo face". LOL!
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: apply85 on November 06, 2011, 01:56:07 PM
Anyway I won two shows that year...including the junior nationals... Mr. "100 pound pulldown in yo face". LOL!

once again I'm sorry u looked like shit without drugs, im sorry your own insecurites turned u into a life time liar, sorry again that you never even had a chance to grow up to be an honest person
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Cutlet767 on November 06, 2011, 04:28:06 PM
GH15 is full of shit telling you to "train naturally". You can't build shit naturally, he knows and agrees, but as usual contradicts himself like a fucking retard. Have you seen the TRUE natural limit he says people can reach? And you want to spend 3 years building that? hahahahahahahaha.

Just don't waste time. I guess put in 3-4 weeks, learn the ropes a bit, and then get busy with some quality HG gear, and a shit load of food. Stop fucking around. The clever ones start early while the rest just look like shit and complain.

And LOL @ PCT, fuck outta here. This is easily the biggest scam in bodybuilding. You think You can make steroid gains, get lean as fuck on steroids, and then come off and keep any real physique? You think that if you start off squatting 225 1rm, gain several lbs of muscle and up it to 315-365 for a bunch, you can come off and live happily ever after?

Look, your genetics are shit. And the earlier you just start getting serious about bbing the better. Acquire the necessary anabolics and get your shit together kid.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: gh15 on November 06, 2011, 04:46:17 PM
GH15 is full of shit telling you to "train naturally". You can't build shit naturally, he knows and agrees, but as usual contradicts himself like a fucking retard. Have you seen the TRUE natural limit he says people can reach? And you want to spend 3 years building that? hahahahahahahaha.

Just don't waste time. I guess put in 3-4 weeks, learn the ropes a bit, and then get busy with some quality HG gear, and a shit load of food. Stop fucking around. The clever ones start early while the rest just look like shit and complain.

And LOL @ PCT, fuck outta here. This is easily the biggest scam in bodybuilding. You think You can make steroid gains, get lean as fuck on steroids, and then come off and keep any real physique? You think that if you start off squatting 225 1rm, gain several lbs of muscle and up it to 315-365 for a bunch, you can come off and live happily ever after?

Look, your genetics are shit. And the earlier you just start getting serious about bbing the better. Acquire the necessary anabolics and get your shit together kid.

185lb 6'4 = 145lb 5'10 ,,he is 12% little less

even the worse genetic fella in the world can be more than 145lb 12% 5;10 ,, this is 30-35lb under the natural limit i establish in bible AND! since he is 12%....this is much more,,, he is about 40-45lb under his natural limit

so dont put word in my mouth,, im never wrong,, if i say he can go natural that mean he can go natural atleats for 25-30more lb

gh15 approved
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Cutlet767 on November 06, 2011, 05:14:06 PM
185lb 6'4 = 145lb 5'10 ,,he is 12% little less

even the worse genetic fella in the world can be more than 145lb 12% 5;10 ,, this is 30-35lb under the natural limit i establish in bible AND! since he is 12%....this is much more,,, he is about 40-45lb under his natural limit

so dont put word in my mouth,, im never wrong,, if i say he can go natural that mean he can go natural atleats for 25-30more lb

gh15 approved

Correction: You are always wrong. 145 at 12% 5'10 is clinically underweight. 30lbs lol... what you consider a natural physique is not worth 2 fucking years training for. You already know, all naturals look like shit. This is the result of natural bbing being a waste of time. You have said this forever, so gtfo, and stop back pedalling. This fucker SHOULD start gearing up in a couple months at most, and you KNOW it. Stop dancing around the issue....
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: apply85 on November 06, 2011, 05:14:44 PM
with steroids he can just put on those 30 lb faster
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Cutlet767 on November 06, 2011, 05:16:25 PM
with steroids he can just put on those 30 lb faster

Exactly.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: The Grim Lifter on November 06, 2011, 05:18:59 PM
GH15 is full of shit telling you to "train naturally". You can't build shit naturally, he knows and agrees, but as usual contradicts himself like a fucking retard. Have you seen the TRUE natural limit he says people can reach? And you want to spend 3 years building that? hahahahahahahaha.

Just don't waste time. I guess put in 3-4 weeks, learn the ropes a bit, and then get busy with some quality HG gear, and a shit load of food. Stop fucking around. The clever ones start early while the rest just look like shit and complain.

And LOL @ PCT, fuck outta here. This is easily the biggest scam in bodybuilding. You think You can make steroid gains, get lean as fuck on steroids, and then come off and keep any real physique? You think that if you start off squatting 225 1rm, gain several lbs of muscle and up it to 315-365 for a bunch, you can come off and live happily ever after?

Look, your genetics are shit. And the earlier you just start getting serious about bbing the better. Acquire the necessary anabolics and get your shit together kid.

OP ignore this dumbshit.

You can make great gains clean for a few years. Why waste cycles getting to a point which you can do clean and then capitalise on with anabolics.

Secondly, you can keep the mass off gear. Maybe not the level gh15 hit, but you can keep a hell of a lot and the above post is written by someone who hasn't done it. Until you juice and clean out while training and eating correctly you have no idea.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: gh15 on November 06, 2011, 05:25:49 PM
Correction: You are always wrong. 145 at 12% 5'10 is clinically underweight. 30lbs lol... what you consider a natural physique is not worth 2 fucking years training for. You already know, all naturals look like shit. This is the result of natural bbing being a waste of time. You have said this forever, so gtfo, and stop back pedalling. This fucker SHOULD start gearing up in a couple months at most, and you KNOW it. Stop dancing around the issue....

not true,, you just goign to fuck him up he will fuck himself up at this weight not because hormoens are bad ofr you ..they are good! but because he is not ready ,, his bones are not ready for this,, he is fragile i keep telling you this ,, do whatever i put out my recomendation ,,he need more thickness on him and it can easily be achieved he can put those 20-25 lb in a year ,, he is also 19....nothign will happen if he start at 20-21 this is early enough

gh15 approved
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Hulkotron on November 06, 2011, 05:38:25 PM
Whose gimmick is this Cutlet character?
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: asbrus on November 06, 2011, 09:19:34 PM
Exactly.

Y0U ARE A FUCKING IDI0T.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: growing1221 on November 06, 2011, 10:49:16 PM
you shudl pretty easily be 210-220lb naturaly at 12-14% ,,get there first

then on hormones you will really look impressive and fresakish

gh15 approved
im confused gh. i thought we wanted to be single digit bf before starting hormones? Im sitting at 210lbs 6'2'' at 12-14%bf, i was going to cut to single digit bf then start cycle, or should i just start now?
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: JFree92 on November 07, 2011, 12:11:06 AM
not true,, you just goign to fuck him up he will fuck himself up at this weight not because hormoens are bad ofr you ..they are good! but because he is not ready ,, his bones are not ready for this,, he is fragile i keep telling you this ,, do whatever i put out my recomendation ,,he need more thickness on him and it can easily be achieved he can put those 20-25 lb in a year ,, he is also 19....nothign will happen if he start at 20-21 this is early enough

gh15 approved

This makes sense to me. I'm gonna put another year in and see what happens.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: gh15 on November 07, 2011, 12:43:26 AM
im confused gh. i thought we wanted to be single digit bf before starting hormones? Im sitting at 210lbs 6'2'' at 12-14%bf, i was going to cut to single digit bf then start cycle, or should i just start now?

his case is diff he is 6'4 185 lb ....comon fellas ,, this is someone who need more natural time,, to bring up everything to some kind of foundation before going on hotmones,, he may be 205-210 and 9-10% bodyfat when all said and doen naturaly ,, he is 6'4 this is very tall

then he can start hormones

gh15 approved
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: wes on November 07, 2011, 12:50:40 AM
No raw beginner should even use D-Bol.............they don`t even have a clue how to train.

This kid doesn`t look as if he could do 10 full squats with 95 pounds....no offense to him at all,but at his stage,or should I say "non-stage" he needs to eat like a horse,do basic big exercises,and train 4 X a week.

Anyone telling him to use immediately is just a perfect example of generation nothinngness personified.

Use a ton of shit if you want,but not when you have no training experience and are a buck 50 at 6'4".
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: whitewidow on November 07, 2011, 02:07:43 AM
not true,, you just goign to fuck him up he will fuck himself up at this weight not because hormoens are bad ofr you ..they are good! but because he is not ready ,, his bones are not ready for this,, he is fragile i keep telling you this ,, do whatever i put out my recomendation ,,he need more thickness on him and it can easily be achieved he can put those 20-25 lb in a year ,, he is also 19....nothign will happen if he start at 20-21 this is early enough

gh15 approved

this kid isnt ready for creatine! this thread is intended to be a joke leave it alone. someone is laughing at everybody answering this stupid thread nobody who looks like that would possibly think of using gear yet! they would seriously be retarded! they dont even look like they train with heavy weights are even light weights. maybe a soccer player. If it is for real train natural and eat about 7,000 calories daily along with 2 grams of protein per pound and start using some vitargo and tribex along with daily training. maybe even hire a trainer if you are serious about getting bigger. no shame in getting a trainer as long as they are a serious BB trainer.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: wes on November 07, 2011, 02:21:05 AM
I'm not a complete noob in the gym. Over my year of training I believe like I have learned alot. I can squat 240lbs for a few reps at my max and can DB press 100lbs for 5. But the whole time I've been cutting as I say and is very hard for me to gain muscle/strength with a lack of calories
Cutting what  ???
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: JFree92 on November 07, 2011, 02:26:45 AM
Fat, I used to weigh 240lbs
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: whitewidow on November 07, 2011, 03:20:26 AM
I'm not stupid and I know how to train.

there is a diffrence between lifting weights and training like a bodybuilder!It takes more than a year to learn how to train like a bodybuilder. personally I think this thread is a joke. I never said you were stupid but at your age it wouldnt hurt to hire a trainer. not one of those shitty bally fitness trainers or 24hr fitness trainers as 90% of them do not train like a bodybuilder and are just fit. those gyms do not like hiring big bodybuilder type looking guys they rather hire somebody who has a pretty boy beach body look. but there are some hardcore gyms and trainers you could hire to help you out. there is no shame in getting a trainer if they know how to train like a bodybuilder they are good to help you get through workouts. get someone serious and get very serious yourself start reading about fast and slow twitch muscles learn how your body reacts to diffrent training routines. Trust me you are years away from androgenic anabolic steroid use. before you use steroids you need to get your training and diet 110% at 19 yrs old you have years to still gain naturally. you also need to study nutrition as that is a very important part of bodybuilding. you need to be eating 6,000 calories a day! and make sure it is mainly good foods at least 2 grams of protein per pound. If you work it is very hard to eat like this hopefully you still live at home and can take advantage of eating off of your parents dime. because when you move out it gets very expensive to eat like this trust me I was a year older then you when I moved out and I realized I was spedning 15$-20$ a day just on myself thats around 600$ a month just on food so take advantage of living at home if you still do. I remeber those days when I was young 20 yrs old and it was hard paying rent and paying that much for food I had to eat more protein shakes for awhile till I was able to save up more money. I would say your at least 4 years away from using anabolic steroids you can still make alot of natural gains at your age. a 19yr old has a very high natural testosterone level as long as you stay away from drugs and smoking,drinking. you can still put alot of muscle on your frame naturally dont even thin about taking steroids for about 4 years trust me you want to wait till you are 110% completely done growing you might think you are but you are not. if you train harder and learn how to train like a bodybuilder, eat right(6-8) meals a day(around 6,000 calories a day) flex your muscles alot sounds stupid but it will help. constantly flex your muscles when you are just sitting at home and have nothing to do. I would say you could put on cose to 15-25 pounds on your physique naturally or maybe with a little help from some OTC supplements. Vitargo cgl is a good product, a good tribulus product and a multi vitamin do not mess with prohormones as AAS is probably safer and cheaper. I waited till I was 24 close to 25 before I did my first cycle and I am glad I did because even at 23 years old I stuck a great diet and ate alot of good foods and gained 8 pounds of muscle naturally then when I hit mid 24 I did a turinabol only cyccle and got 18 pounds after just the 3rd week. I only used it for 5-6 weeks but I put on 21 pound but once I got rid of the water and a tad of fat I yielded 12 pounds of pure lean muscle. then i got into Test and pretty much everything. my first year on gear I took alot of steroids. I was just so interested in what kind of effect i would get and to tell you the truth i was dissapointed with alot of steroids as they sounded way better than they actually were they still worked but I didnt get a whole lot stronger some lifts I got about a 20% increase but some I did not. more like 15% increase. so I learned very quickly steroids were not magic. no matter what I always got size but strength wise do not expect a miracle. maybe a 20% increase in some of your lifts.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: BOUNCER DAVE on November 07, 2011, 03:21:01 AM
"I'm not stupid and I know how to train."


It does not show.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Fitness4Life on November 07, 2011, 03:22:17 AM
I'm not stupid and I know how to train.

I see your type everyday at the gym, do what everyone is telling you, train hard, get the diet right, do some intense groundwork for 1 year to 2.  You have to do this, want to take stuff?  Get your protein powder, make sure your protein mostly comes from food, and get a decent preworkout.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: wes on November 07, 2011, 04:06:26 AM
I see your type everyday at the gym, do what everyone is telling you, train hard, get the diet right, do some intense groundwork for 1 year to 2.  You have to do this, want to take stuff?  Get your protein powder, make sure your protein mostly comes from food, and get a decent preworkout.
Great advice!!

Follow this or just fuck off.

End of gimmicks thread!!
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: whitewidow on November 07, 2011, 04:07:51 AM

OK I see more what you're getting at now. I already do alot of that stuff and have to spend most of my money on food (I'm a student now.) I've given up drinking and I have never smoked. I sacrifice alot of things in my student life to do this. I spend most of my nights learning about different training methods and nutrition and I'm aware of things such as slow twitch muscle fibres and how best to activate them with your training. I count all my calories and plan my diet every week before I buy the food. Although I look alot worse than any average gym rat I honestly believe I know alot more than all of them, but I just haven't had the time to start bulking yet and put it all into practice. The thing I don't do which you mentioned is eat 6k cal per day. I just don't see how I could get away with that. I eat 2500 atm and feel like I'm scared to eat any more due to putting on fat. The fat I hold on my back which is visible in my pic is really irritating to me.
[/quote

I got the calories by eating homemade protein shakes and eating at fastfood joints. no fries but what i do is go to carls jr. or burgerking a place where they flame broil the meat and get a flame broiled chicken sandwich completely plain and I toss the top part of the bun and kind of fold it and eat just the patty and the lower bun I also buy a burger and do the same thing I order it plain and only eat the burger patty and half the bun. make sure its a patty that is flame broiled and not deep fried. this is a good way to get protein and calories. and it is inexpensive. I also make my own shake I buy some cytosport protein powder usually chocolate and I add granola some flax seed, some peanut butter, a scoop of ice cream and some nancys plain yogurt. It actually taste great and are very easy to eat they taste good and this will get you more protein and calories in you and fairly clean protein,carbs and fats. only thing that is somewhat bad is the ice cream and the peanut butter but they are both great foods to gain weight on the plain yogurt and granola are very good for you. I usually eat one of these pre and post workout. I said 2 grams of protein a pound but 1.5 grams of protein is enough. if you do go on cycle later on in life eat 2 grams of protein per pounds. I know how it is being stuck at a certain weight and you just cannot seem to break through that weight but it will eventually happen just stay patient and keep training hard and eating right. Now when I talked about going to carls jr. or  burgerking that is only because they flame broil their meat and offer a all white meat chicken breast wich are actually very good just order them plain no sauces no toppings only HALF of the bun. just fold that bitch in half and eat it get two sandwiches one chicken breast and one hamburger. or you can just eat the pattys. I prefer at least eating the bottom bun. I also use about a packet of salt on each sandwich. salt makes me more vascular and that is why I do that plus it adds my craving for water. fast food joints are fine as long as you go to one that flame broils their burgers never get anything fried or deep fried. eventually you will gain weight. but you have to be patient and get used to eating alot wich does take time believe me I wanted to start using steroids way before I started at 24 but I did get 8 pounds naturally between the age of 21 and 24. when I was 19 to 21 I got about 10-15 pounds naturally. the worst is when you get 21 then you really think your done growing naturally but believe me just wait till mid 20's. you will have a great foundation at that age and will be done growing naturally.then hit the juice and you wont have joint problems and will gain better because you will be stronger and used to eating the needed foods.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: JFree92 on November 07, 2011, 04:34:48 AM
What did you do regarding the problem of fat whilst bulking for so long.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: Borracho on November 07, 2011, 07:02:46 AM
there is a diffrence between lifting weights and training like a bodybuilder!It takes more than a year to learn how to train like a bodybuilder. personally I think this thread is a joke. I never said you were stupid but at your age it wouldnt hurt to hire a trainer. not one of those shitty bally fitness trainers or 24hr fitness trainers as 90% of them do not train like a bodybuilder and are just fit. those gyms do not like hiring big bodybuilder type looking guys they rather hire somebody who has a pretty boy beach body look. but there are some hardcore gyms and trainers you could hire to help you out. there is no shame in getting a trainer if they know how to train like a bodybuilder they are good to help you get through workouts. get someone serious and get very serious yourself start reading about fast and slow twitch muscles learn how your body reacts to diffrent training routines. Trust me you are years away from androgenic anabolic steroid use. before you use steroids you need to get your training and diet 110% at 19 yrs old you have years to still gain naturally. you also need to study nutrition as that is a very important part of bodybuilding. you need to be eating 6,000 calories a day! and make sure it is mainly good foods at least 2 grams of protein per pound. If you work it is very hard to eat like this hopefully you still live at home and can take advantage of eating off of your parents dime. because when you move out it gets very expensive to eat like this trust me I was a year older then you when I moved out and I realized I was spedning 15$-20$ a day just on myself thats around 600$ a month just on food so take advantage of living at home if you still do. I remeber those days when I was young 20 yrs old and it was hard paying rent and paying that much for food I had to eat more protein shakes for awhile till I was able to save up more money. I would say your at least 4 years away from using anabolic steroids you can still make alot of natural gains at your age. a 19yr old has a very high natural testosterone level as long as you stay away from drugs and smoking,drinking. you can still put alot of muscle on your frame naturally dont even thin about taking steroids for about 4 years trust me you want to wait till you are 110% completely done growing you might think you are but you are not. if you train harder and learn how to train like a bodybuilder, eat right(6-8) meals a day(around 6,000 calories a day) flex your muscles alot sounds stupid but it will help. constantly flex your muscles when you are just sitting at home and have nothing to do. I would say you could put on cose to 15-25 pounds on your physique naturally or maybe with a little help from some OTC supplements. Vitargo cgl is a good product, a good tribulus product and a multi vitamin do not mess with prohormones as AAS is probably safer and cheaper. I waited till I was 24 close to 25 before I did my first cycle and I am glad I did because even at 23 years old I stuck a great diet and ate alot of good foods and gained 8 pounds of muscle naturally then when I hit mid 24 I did a turinabol only cyccle and got 18 pounds after just the 3rd week. I only used it for 5-6 weeks but I put on 21 pound but once I got rid of the water and a tad of fat I yielded 12 pounds of pure lean muscle. then i got into Test and pretty much everything. my first year on gear I took alot of steroids. I was just so interested in what kind of effect i would get and to tell you the truth i was dissapointed with alot of steroids as they sounded way better than they actually were they still worked but I didnt get a whole lot stronger some lifts I got about a 20% increase but some I did not. more like 15% increase. so I learned very quickly steroids were not magic. no matter what I always got size but strength wise do not expect a miracle. maybe a 20% increase in some of your lifts.


This stuff hurts my eyes....can you please start writing in paragraphs. I'm sure I'm not the only one that just skips over your posts.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: JFree92 on November 07, 2011, 09:02:50 AM
OK I'll just let you guys know that I'm going to bulk up until the end of 2012 then post my progress on here if you'd be interested.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: wes on November 07, 2011, 09:05:04 AM
OK I'll just let you guys know that I'm going to bulk up until the end of 2012 then post my progress on here if you'd be interested.
(http://www.someworthwhilequotes.com/images/graphics/applause.gif)


Only took you 8 pages.
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: nosleep on November 07, 2011, 12:44:35 PM
DUDE...THAT KID SHOULD JUST GET ON A STRENGTH PROGRAM LIKE BIG BEYOND BELIEF, EAT FOR HIS APPETITE...ONCE HE GETS THAT STRENGTH FOUNDATION, UNDERSTANDS WHAT FOODS HE EATS..MAYBE A YEAR, YEAR-HALF IDK..WHATEVER IT IS...THEN JUMP IN THE ALLL-YOU CAN EAT HORMONA BUFFET.

 :D
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: JFree92 on November 07, 2011, 01:55:42 PM
Strength program eh..why not train mainly for hypertrophy instead of strength?
Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: jaejonna on November 07, 2011, 01:58:53 PM
hahahah I can't believe you guy's think this 'tit' is being real. ..haha Generation nothigness always looking for a short cut.

Title: Re: How important is it to build a natural foundation before starting on gear?
Post by: goomba420 on November 07, 2011, 02:04:23 PM
hahahah I can't believe you guy's think this 'tit' is being real. ..haha Generation nothigness always looking for a short cut.



why the fuck not? people use shortcuts all the time. sorry if this individual doesnt want to devote 2-3 years of his life doing nothing but eating chicken and rice every two hours