Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Soul Crusher on November 05, 2011, 06:32:21 AM
-
After weeks of stonewalling by the Department of Justice, a clearer picture of what its top officials knew about BATFE’s Operation Fast and Furious, and when they knew it, is slowly beginning to emerge.
On Tuesday, Lanny Breuer, Assistant Attorney General for the Department of Justice’s Criminal Division, testified before the Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime and Terrorism about his knowledge of BATFE’s gunwalking operations, and his support for gun control.
In April 2010, Breuer says, he knew that BATFE agents had allowed hundreds of guns to be illegally purchased and smuggled to Mexican drug cartels in 2006 and 2007 as part of Wide Receiver, a Tucson-based operation similar to Fast and Furious, which was hatched out of Phoenix. Nevertheless, nearly a year later, when BATFE was accused of allowing guns to walk in Fast and Furious, Breuer suggested that he was convinced to not consider the allegations seriously. “I recall that both the leadership of ATF and the leadership of the United States Attorney's Offices in Arizona . . . were adamant about the fact that [gunwalking] was not, in fact, a condoned practice,” Breuer said. And as noted last week by the New York Times, last February the Justice Department sent a letter to Congress stating “A.T.F. makes every effort to interdict weapons that have been purchased illegally and prevent their transport into Mexico.”
Seeming to corroborate the 2007 date Breuer mentioned, the Associated Press reported today that a briefing paper prepared in 2007 for then-Attorney General Michael Mukasey “outlined failed attempts by federal agents to track illicitly purchased guns across the border into Mexico.” But why Breuer did not give more attention to the gunwalking claims made against Fast and Furious is as unclear to him as to the rest of the country. “I regret that in April of 2010 that I did not draw the connection between Wide Receiver and Fast and Furious,” Breuer said. “Moreover, I regret that even earlier this year, I didn't draw that connection.”
When it became Sen. Dianne Feinstein’s turn to question Breuer, the zealous anti-gun crusader from California tried to shift the focus of the hearings from battling international crime to battling those of us who support the Second Amendment.
The exchange between the two gun control supporters speaks for itself.
Feinstein: Mr. Breuer, in June of this year, I received a letter from the ATF. . . stating that 29,284 firearms [were] recovered in Mexico in '09 and 2010, and submitted to the ATF Tracing Center. With those weapons, 20,504, or 70 percent, were United States sourced. . . . Is it fair to say that 70 percent of the firearms showing up in Mexico are from the United States?
Breuer: Thank you, Senator, for the question, and for your leadership on this issue. . . . Of the 94,000 weapons that have been recovered in Mexico, 64,000 of those are traced to the United States. We have to do something to prevent criminals from getting those guns, Senator. . . .
Feinstein: . . . .“[W]e have very lax laws when it comes to guns. . . . And so the question comes, do you believe that if there were some form of registration when you purchase these firearms that that would make a difference?
Breuer: I do, Senator. . . . Today, Senator, we are not even permitted to have ATF receive reports about multiple sales of long guns, of any kind of semiautomatic weapon or the like. . . . Very few hunters in the United States or sports people and law-abiding people really need to have semiautomatic weapons or long guns. . . .”
Senator Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), who has been co-leading Congress’ investigation of Fast and Furious with Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.), disagreed with Feinstein’s and Breuer’s claim that 70 percent of guns seized in Mexico come from the United States. “I released a report that I would like to ask be made a part of the record,” Senator Grassley said. “It refutes the numbers referenced early that 70 percent of the guns in Mexico came from the U.S. The answer isn't to clamp down on law abiding citizens or gun dealers.”
While Mr. Breuer’s testimony shined a glimmer of light on who knew what and when they knew it, about the BATFE’s most disastrous operation since the 1993 Waco raid, it obviously did not, nor was it intended to, lead Congress or the American people to a proper understanding of how many firearms have been smuggled to Mexico without BATFE’s help, since the Mexican drug cartels began waging war on their country. As has already been reported, many of the “guns traced to the U.S.” from Mexico were seized in that country many years ago, but have been only recently submitted for tracing at the urging of the BATFE. And to complicate things further, Mexican officials have acquiesced to BATFE’s urgings by submitting multiple trace requests on single guns.
-
Breuer: I do, Senator. . . . Today, Senator, we are not even permitted to have ATF receive reports about multiple sales of long guns, of any kind of semiautomatic weapon or the like. . . . Very few hunters in the United States or sports people and law-abiding people really need to have semiautomatic weapons or long guns. . . .”
Hope and Change !!!!!
-
This man shows why the 2nd amendment is needed:
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/meet-the-oakland-developer-who-used-a-shotgun-to-discourage-occupy-rioters/
Won't be seeing any riots on the scale of London this summer around here.
Feinstein pretty much confirmed what FaF was launched to do.
-
This man shows why the 2nd amendment is needed:
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/meet-the-oakland-developer-who-used-a-shotgun-to-discourage-occupy-rioters/
Won't be seeing any riots on the scale of London this summer around here.
Feinstein pretty much confirmed what FaF was launched to do.
there is no sane reason that anyone needs an assault rifle
-
there is no sane reason that anyone needs an assault rifle
one persons opinion, what sane reason is there to take the right away?
-
there is no sane reason that anyone needs an assault rifle
[/quote
What ia an assault rifle? According to most far leftist tools like yrself, a ruger 10 22 qualifies as an assault rifle.
-
one persons opinion, what sane reason is there to take the right away?
well..the best reason is if you look at Japan and england where there are very strict gun laws,..there are practically NO GUN VIOLENCE CRIMES...gun violence costs us a lot in hospital stays, long term rehab, the buying of wheelchairs due to paralysis, and it really hurts men because we are the main victims of gun violence....
in the most recent statistics, England had 14 deaths from firearms...Japan had 47..the United states had 9,369...all of these in the span of one year..anyone who believes that we should have the right to bear arms, especially assault weapons is insane...look at the statistics....if you continue to argue this point you should leave the thread, delete your account and then kill yourself...the stats don't lie..they are right there for you to see
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms
-
well..the best reason is if you look at Japan and england where there are very strict gun laws,..there are practically NO GUN VIOLENCE CRIMES...gun violence costs us a lot in hospital stays, long term rehab, the buying of wheelchairs due to paralysis, and it really hurts men because we are the main victims of gun violence....
in the most recent statistics, England had 14 deaths from firearms...Japan had 47..the United states had 9,369...all of these in the span of one year..anyone who believes that we should have the right to bear arms, especially assault weapons is insane...look at the statistics....if you continue to argue this point you should leave the thread, delete your account and then kill yourself...the stats don't lie..they are right there for you to see
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms
so you have two ISLANDS, with no neighboring borders that limit guns/prohibit guns.
plenty of illegal guns are in the hands of gang members and ppl all over the country, you think making assualt rifles illegal is all of a sudden going to make them turn them in or throw them away?
if youre pointing to japan and england as an example then you probably are apt to believe that banning all guns is a good way to go. If thats the case you should take your own advice here "delete your account and then kill yourself...the stats don't lie...the stats dont lie"
but your a moronic racists so your logic is undoubtedly flawed
-
Take away the crime committed by ghetto thugs and out nation has very low crime rates.
-
well..the best reason is if you look at Japan and england where there are very strict gun laws,..there are practically NO GUN VIOLENCE CRIMES...gun violence costs us a lot in hospital stays, long term rehab, the buying of wheelchairs due to paralysis, and it really hurts men because we are the main victims of gun violence....
in the most recent statistics, England had 14 deaths from firearms...Japan had 47..the United states had 9,369...all of these in the span of one year..anyone who believes that we should have the right to bear arms, especially assault weapons is insane...look at the statistics....if you continue to argue this point you should leave the thread, delete your account and then kill yourself...the stats don't lie..they are right there for you to see
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms
How about posting fatal knife attacks that have skyrocketed in England over the past 10 years? News flash: people are going to kill people if guns are banned or not.
You also ignore the fact that violent crime across the US has been in rapid decline, even in the recession, over the past 15 years. Without comparing per capita numbers the raw incidents are irrelevant as obviously America will always have more deaths due to population differences.
-
You also forget the cultural and racial aspects of these statistics....Japan is predominantly mono-cultural and mono-racial and combined with being a developed nation with one of the most highly formal educated populace in the world, of course violent crimes are going to be down. Gun violence here in the US is largely concentrated within the inner cities between primarily poor blacks and hispanics (gang and drug-related).
-
so you have two ISLANDS, with no neighboring borders that limit guns/prohibit guns.
plenty of illegal guns are in the hands of gang members and ppl all over the country, you think making assualt rifles illegal is all of a sudden going to make them turn them in or throw them away?
if youre pointing to japan and england as an example then you probably are apt to believe that banning all guns is a good way to go. If thats the case you should take your own advice here "delete your account and then kill yourself...the stats don't lie...the stats dont lie"
but your a moronic racists so your logic is undoubtedly flawed
of course I was waiting for you to use your favorite tactic...deflect by calling names...I try to have decent conversation with you but losers like you don't get it so why bother???...even showing you the hard statistics doesn't sway you at all from your dumbness.....continually calling me a racist...is that all you got????
again it shows you have no critical thinking skills....thanks for continually proving me right on that
-
How about posting fatal knife attacks that have skyrocketed in England over the past 10 years? News flash: people are going to kill people if guns are banned or not.
You also ignore the fact that violent crime across the US has been in rapid decline, even in the recession, over the past 15 years. Without comparing per capita numbers the raw incidents are irrelevant as obviously America will always have more deaths due to population differences.
yes violent crime is in rapid decline..so what?....we are talking about gun deaths here...just look at the stats I posted....there is no way a civilized country should have that many gun deaths.....again compare japan to the U.S.
Japan 47
United States over 9,000
do you really think that that level of violence is NORMAL?????
-
of course I was waiting for you to use your favorite tactic...deflect by calling names...I try to have decent conversation with you but losers like you don't get it so why bother???...even showing you the hard statistics doesn't sway you at all from your dumbness.....continually calling me a racist...is that all you got????
again it shows you have no critical thinking skills....thanks for continually proving me right on that
LOL i didnt deflect i answered your idiocy with facts as well...
look at violent crimes for the 3 populations as a whole you dumb ass. Japan doesnt have as violent as a culture as we do.
Look at the knife attacks etc in england and then Im guessing you be advocating the banning of knifes ::)
-
yes violent crime is in rapid decline..so what?....we are talking about gun deaths here...just look at the stats I posted....there is no way a civilized country should have that many gun deaths.....again compare japan to the U.S.
Japan 47
United States over 9,000
do you really think that that level of violence is NORMAL?????
our population is much greater than japans...ONE
TWO our cultures are completely different you jack ass, take it from a japanese person. They are not anywhere near as confrontational or violent as we are.
THREE, there is still plenty of violent acts in Japan. Look up knife attacks etc...
How do you think that taking guns away or assualt rifles away is going to help here in the US?
-
our population is much greater than japans...ONE
TWO our cultures are completely different you jack ass, take it from a japanese person. They are not anywhere near as confrontational or violent as we are.
THREE, there is still plenty of violent acts in Japan. Look up knife attacks etc...
How do you think that taking guns away or assualt rifles away is going to help here in the US?
Of course the cultures are different..that goes without saying....but still the numbers are striking...there is no getting around that or glossing over it....taking away guns will take away some of the impulse to kill.....also you won't be able to kill as many people as you would with an assault rifle
-
Of course the cultures are different..that goes without saying....but still the numbers are striking...there is no getting around that or glossing over it....taking away guns will take away some of the impulse to kill.....also you won't be able to kill as many people as you would with an assault rifle
LOL taking away guns wont take away the impulse to you kill...WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
7 killed in knife attack in japan.
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/jun/09/world/fg-stab9
13 injured in knife attack in japan
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12015165
there are reasons behind stats andre and as a person who aspires to be a docter you need to understand that simply b/c you find a number doesnt mean anything. You need to know why the number is what it is.
Knife attacks happen much more frequently in Japan, taking away guns isnt going to limit the impluse to kill only one outlet in which to do so. If someone wants to kill someone they can just as easily pick up a knife.
what constitutes an assualt rifle for you then? One could kill just as many with a hand gun or semi automatic rifle so are you for banning those as well?
-
Hey andre. - how many murders are committed w semi auto rifles?
-
there is no sane reason that anyone needs an assault rifle
Who are you to decide that?
Ever wonder why Europeans are so good at rioting and destroying other people's property? Try to pull that shit over here, and as that developer in LA just showed, you'll be met with an entirely different response.
Statistics have consistently shown that assault weapons constitute 0.2% of all gun crimes.
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcassaul.html
-
there is no sane reason that anyone needs an assault rifle
You fucking cowardly retard.
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
-
You fucking cowardly retard.
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not
be infringed.
Andre and douchebags like vince and blackass and benny hate the End amendment cause they fear their fellow element in the hood.
-
this will be a great rallying point for repubs in fundraising efforts in 2012. Finally a quote to point to. It's almost been the obama mandate to leave gun rights alone. Some 2nd tier guy mouthing off to win curry with the left base can hurt obama in 2012. I bet this guy is muzzled quickly and we don't hear a repeat of this - and he might even walk back with "what I meant was..."
-
You fucking cowardly retard.
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
no one here is a retard you stupid homo fuck..I know the constitution....but I'm quite sure the founding fathers never saw a machine gun or uzi before....I don't think they meant for us to have rocket launchers...all I'm saying is that murder would be much less if there were strict gun control...I am not so much opposed to guns per se, but there is no reason I can think of for a citizen to have an assault rifle or machine gun
-
Andre and douchebags like vince and blackass and benny hate the End amendment cause they fear their fellow element in the hood.
actually the fear is on your side....thats your justification for having guns
-
I remember the 92 riots and crown heights.
-
I remember the 92 riots and crown heights.
you seem to have a very nice vivid memory of all the black riots and a not so good memory of all the white ones that have taken place across the country
-
I remember the 92 riots and crown heights.
try rioting like that in texas. LMAO. There was ZERO looting in my trailer park after hurrican charley flooded the place and shut off power for a week.
we sat on the porch drinking warm pepsi, eating doritos, playing cards with shotguns leaning against the house.
The drifters went elsewhere.
-
you seem to have a very nice vivid memory of all the black riots and a not so good memory of all the white ones that have taken place across the country
[/quote
What was the last violent white riot that occurred? ]
-
no one here is a retard you stupid homo fuck..I know the constitution....but I'm quite sure the founding fathers never saw a machine gun or uzi before....I don't think they meant for us to have rocket launchers...all I'm saying is that murder would be much less if there were strict gun control...I am not so much opposed to guns per se, but there is no reason I can think of for a citizen to have an assault rifle or machine gun
How convenient of you to ignore the post that refutes your stupid claim.
Who are you to decide that?
Ever wonder why Europeans are so good at rioting and destroying other people's property? Try to pull that shit over here, and as that developer in LA just showed, you'll be met with an entirely different response.
Statistics have consistently shown that assault weapons constitute 0.2% of all gun crimes.
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcassaul.html
Assault weapons are not prevalent in gun crime. Go ask the average person if they know how to get their hands on an uzi. ::)
-
Take away the crimes committed by inner city ghetto thugs and the numbers drop like a rock.
-
no one here is a retard you stupid homo fuck..I know the constitution....but I'm quite sure the founding fathers never saw a machine gun or uzi before....I don't think they meant for us to have rocket launchers...all I'm saying is that murder would be much less if there were strict gun control...I am not so much opposed to guns per se, but there is no reason I can think of for a citizen to have an assault rifle or machine gun
LOL no brain child, gun murders would be less, other types of murders would sky rocket.
You arent more apt to kill someone b/c you own a gun dumb ass...
-
LOL no brain child, gun murders would be less, other types of murders would sky rocket.
You arent more apt to kill someone b/c you own a gun dumb ass...
stalker reported....correction.. ..DUMB stalker reported
-
stalker reported....correction.. ..DUMB stalker reported
Andre - want to go to the range w me one day? I will let you go pin up the targets while i get everything ready at the stands.
Deal?
-
Andre - want to go to the range w me one day? I will let you go pin up the targets while i get everything ready at the stands.
Deal?
hahahah...FUNNY ;D
-
hahahah...FUNNY ;D
-
stalker reported....correction.. ..DUMB stalker reported
hmmm, I gave you at least one more poor attempt to make your idiotic point before resulting to this...
Guess im giving you more credit than I should
-
Yeah...for a supposed doctor, he's a fucking retard. But as it turns out douchbag libs like him will never be able to take our guns away. I just dropped $2500 on a new AR. I have all the bells and whistles...its better then porn. So whether its the zombie apocalypse or douchbag libs trying to overthrough the gov....I'm good. More guns less crime...more guns less chance of a left wing overthrow. I really wish u idiots would try something like that...like ur presidents' best buddy Ayers.
-
Holder to call for tighter gun control in Fast & Furious testimony tomorrow
Share
9
POSTED AT 9:58 PM ON NOVEMBER 7, 2011 BY ALLAHPUNDIT
PRINTER-FRIENDLY
Why not? We pay for having a terrible federal government every day. Why should this be any different just because it involves lost rights instead of lost money?
Seriously, though, having Obama’s AG mumble about more gun regulation in front of a mic will accomplish two things. One: It’s bound to worry all sorts of swing-state gun owners in Pennsylvania and Ohio once word of his testimony gets around, which is all to the good for election day next year. Two: The more gun owners perk up about Holder’s testimony, the more public interest there’s bound to be in Fast & Furious. And hey — there actually is room for a smart new gun law here if Congress is willing to take it up. I call it the “DOJ Shouldn’t Walk Guns to Psychotic Mexican Drug Cartels Act of 2011.” The text reads, in full, “The DOJ shouldn’t walk guns to psychotic Mexican drug cartels.”
I’m thinking that would be a party-line vote in the House.
“Today, I would like to correct some of the inaccurate — and irresponsible — accusations surrounding Fast and Furious,” Holder’s prepared testimony reads. “Some of the overheated rhetoric might lead you to believe that this local, Arizona-based operation was somehow the cause of the epidemic of gun violence in Mexico. In fact, Fast and Furious was a flawed response to, not the cause of, the flow of illegal guns from the United States into Mexico.”
In his testimony, Holder also advocates for new gun-control laws that he says would have halted, or at least prevented, Operation Fast and Furious. Holder echoes California Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein’s comments from last week, when she argued that stricter gun laws would have stopped law enforcement agents from facilitating the sale of guns to Mexican drug cartels.
“Unfortunately, earlier this year the House of Representatives actually voted to keep law enforcement in the dark when individuals purchase multiple semi-automatic rifles and shotguns in Southwest border gun shops,” Holder’s written testimony declares. “Providing law enforcement with the tools to detect and disrupt illegal gun trafficking is entirely consistent with the constitutional rights of law-abiding citizens and it is critical to addressing the public safety crisis on the Southwest border.”
The idea that we need to regulate the wider population more tightly in order to prevent catastrophically moronic operations by the feds gives me a warm glow deep in my libertarian heart. And I do mean catastrophic: Watch this new clip from ace CBS reporter Sharyl Atkisson updating the death toll from gunwalking. It’s not just Brian Terry.
WTF!
-
you seem to have a very nice vivid memory of all the black riots and a not so good memory of all the white ones that have taken place across the country
I'm not being funny here, I can't think of any white riots (as we know them, looting etc...)?
???
-
Yeah...for a supposed doctor, he's a fucking retard. But as it turns out douchbag libs like him will never be able to take our guns away. I just dropped $2500 on a new AR. I have all the bells and whistles...its better then porn. So whether its the zombie apocalypse or douchbag libs trying to overthrough the gov....I'm good. More guns less crime...more guns less chance of a left wing overthrow. I really wish u idiots would try something like that...like ur presidents' best buddy Ayers.
its not about being Liberal or Conservative..its about COMMON SENSE......we have to stop the proliferation of guns and we have to stop accepting gun deaths as NORMAL..its not...we need to do something to ban gun sales....plain as that..I showed you the stats...you can't justify over 9,000 gun deaths in a country in one year.... as I have said, I can accept handguns, but NO ONE should have an assault rifle or uzi or anything like that
-
I'm not being funny here, I can't think of any white riots (as we know them, looting etc...)?
???
then you're just as dumb as 3333...lets leave it at that
-
its not about being Liberal or Conservative..its about COMMON SENSE......we have to stop the proliferation of guns and we have to stop accepting gun deaths as NORMAL..its not...we need to do something to ban gun sales....plain as that..I showed you the stats...you can't justify over 9,000 gun deaths in a country in one year.... as I have said, I can accept handguns, but NO ONE should have an assault rifle or uzi or anything like that
How about the Constitution you fucking moron!
COMMON SENSE would dictate society placing a muzzle over your ignorant mouth, but the USC protects your right to free speech.
and if you want to stop gun crimes, stop blaming whitey - and focus on the ghetto thug morons who are the main cause of this problem.
-
How about the Constitution you fucking moron!
COMMON SENSE would dictate society placing a muzzle over your ignorant mouth, but the USC protects your right to free speech.
and if you want to stop gun crimes, stop blaming whitey - and focus on the ghetto thug morons who are the main cause of this problem.
first off we all know about the constitution you dumb retard.....but AGAIN the founding fathers didn't wish for us to be able to have assault weapons.....and also the constitution says we have the right to bear arms "in a well-regulated militia"......that meaning has been twisted over the years
also I would not use words like "ignorance" if I were you....you are the most ignorant post-padding dick on here...in your small mind, white people do no wrong.....
-
first off we all know about the constitution you dumb retard.....but AGAIN the founding fathers didn't wish for us to be able to have assault weapons.....and also the constitution says we have the right to bear arms "in a well-regulated militia"......that meaning has been twisted over the years
also I would not use words like "ignorance" if I were you....you are the most ignorant post-padding dick on here...in your small mind, white people do no wrong.....
USSC has already ruled that you are wrong.
And what is an assault rifle BTW you ignorant twat?
-
then you're just as dumb as 3333...lets leave it at that
Could you please enlighten me on a few of these white riots?
???
-
Could you please enlighten me on a few of these white riots?
???
I sincerely apologize!! I found a photo of one of these white riots!!!
(http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/kurhan/kurhan0904/kurhan090400374/4780779-happy-shopping-people-isolated-over-white-background.jpg)