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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: blacken700 on November 23, 2011, 02:09:31 PM

Title: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: blacken700 on November 23, 2011, 02:09:31 PM
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/dc5e05e8f4/Megyn-Kelly-Pepper-Spray-Thanksgiving?playlist=featured_videos
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: headhuntersix on November 23, 2011, 03:03:57 PM
I guess u didn't here the police transcripts where Pike tells them he's going to mace them and they say "Ok". You're an idiot.
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: avxo on November 23, 2011, 03:15:39 PM
I guess u didn't here the police transcripts where Pike tells them he's going to mace them and they say "Ok". Your an idiot.

I haven't heard the transcript, but even if he did, does that make the use of pepper spray reasonable in this, particular, case anyways? The kids were simply sitting down and offering no resistance of any kind. Note that this is the same Lt. Pike that consciously didn't use pepper spray when he was facing an attacker who lunged at him and his fellow officers armed with scissors.

P.S.: Just out of curiosity, is English a second language or do you just not know how to spell?
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: tonymctones on November 23, 2011, 03:19:39 PM
I haven't heard the transcript, but even if he did, does that make the use of pepper spray reasonable in this, particular, case anyways? The kids were simply sitting down and offering no resistance of any kind. Note that this is the same Lt. Pike that consciously didn't use pepper spray when he was facing an attacker who lunged at him and his fellow officers armed with scissors.

P.S.: Just out of curiosity, is English a second language or do you just not know how to spell?
LOL they werent dispersing, thats not resistance?

I love how ppl try to paint these idiots as innocent ppl just minding their own business. Fact of the matter is they were breaking the law. Now was the reaction equal to the action I dont think so but these morons arent innocent in this.
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: avxo on November 23, 2011, 03:29:33 PM
LOL they werent dispersing, thats not resistance?

I love how ppl try to paint these idiots as innocent ppl just minding their own business. Fact of the matter is they were breaking the law. Now was the reaction equal to the action I dont think so but these morons arent innocent in this.

First of all, get one thing straight: I didn't paint them as anything at all, nor did I make any kind of proclamations about their "innocence" whatever that term might mean in this context. I merely stated the facts - they were sitting down, offering no resistance and no threat. I also pointed out that it seems kind of comical to me that someone who chose to not use pepper spray to tackle a dangerous attacker wielding scissors would choose to use it in this particular situation.

Now as to whether sitting-in was breaking the law, that's by no means certain. Having tents up overnight was a violation of University Regulations, but that's not equivalent to breaking the law.

Have a nice day tonyfootinmouth  ;D
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: tonymctones on November 23, 2011, 03:37:42 PM
First of all, get one thing straight: I didn't paint them as anything at all, nor did I make any kind of proclamations about their "innocence" whatever that term might mean in this context. I merely stated the facts - they were sitting down, offering no resistance and no threat. I also pointed out that it seems kind of comical to me that someone who chose to not use pepper spray to tackle a dangerous attacker wielding scissors would choose to use it in this particular situation.

Now as to whether sitting-in was breaking the law, that's by no means certain. Having tents up overnight was a violation of University Regulations, but that's not equivalent to breaking the law.

Have a nice day tonyfootinmouth  ;D
LOL so not vacating the premises isnt resisting to you? sure thing hoss...::)

they werent simply sitting they were blocking walk ways, forming human chains, disturbing the peace at a college where classes are going on...

sorry moron, facts are facts
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: avxo on November 23, 2011, 04:08:58 PM
LOL so not vacating the premises isnt resisting to you? sure thing hoss...::)

Not according to the California State University guidelines. U.C. Davis is a part of the California State University system.


they werent simply sitting they were blocking walk ways, forming human chains, disturbing the peace at a college where classes are going on...

Even if they were doing all of the above, that's still allowed by University Regulations. What's not allowed is the use of pepper spray the use of pepper spray the way Lt. Pike used it. Per University of California System regulations pepper spray "is to be sprayed in a one second burst. It is not meant to be used repeatedly on an individual, or for long periods of time." and it's use is only appropriate when escalating force in order "to gain control of an unarmed attacker, or to overcome resistance likely to result in injury to either a suspect, a victim, or the officer."

There were no attackers (armed or unarmed) to gain control of, nor any resistance that could likely lead to injury.

I'd also note that further down, the University of California System regulations state that the "use of chemical agents [...] shall be limited to the protection of life or property when other means of lawful force are either unsuitable or unavailable."

There was no life or property in danger and in need of protection.

[To preemptively address the criticism that pepper spray isn't a chemical agent, I'd point you to the 1993 Chemical Weapons Convention to which the U.S. is a signatory, that classifies pepper spray as a chemical agent and outlaws its use in war.]


sorry moron, facts are facts

They sure are. The problem is that your "facts" aren't exactly as cut-and-dry as you make them out to be. Rather, they're a mix of fact, conjecture and personal opinions. And you know what they say about opinions...
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: blacken700 on November 23, 2011, 04:28:36 PM
looks like tonymctones got owned on this one  :-[
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: tonymctones on November 23, 2011, 05:07:25 PM
Not according to the California State University guidelines. U.C. Davis is a part of the California State University system.


Even if they were doing all of the above, that's still allowed by University Regulations. What's not allowed is the use of pepper spray the use of pepper spray the way Lt. Pike used it. Per University of California System regulations pepper spray "is to be sprayed in a one second burst. It is not meant to be used repeatedly on an individual, or for long periods of time." and it's use is only appropriate when escalating force in order "to gain control of an unarmed attacker, or to overcome resistance likely to result in injury to either a suspect, a victim, or the officer."

There were no attackers (armed or unarmed) to gain control of, nor any resistance that could likely lead to injury.

I'd also note that further down, the University of California System regulations state that the "use of chemical agents [...] shall be limited to the protection of life or property when other means of lawful force are either unsuitable or unavailable."

There was no life or property in danger and in need of protection.

[To preemptively address the criticism that pepper spray isn't a chemical agent, I'd point you to the 1993 Chemical Weapons Convention to which the U.S. is a signatory, that classifies pepper spray as a chemical agent and outlaws its use in war.]


They sure are. The problem is that your "facts" aren't exactly as cut-and-dry as you make them out to be. Rather, they're a mix of fact, conjecture and personal opinions. And you know what they say about opinions...
LOL please show us your proof for this idiocy...
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: tonymctones on November 23, 2011, 05:15:10 PM
"Sunday, the university television station, AggieTV, interviewed her about Friday's events. She says that police had been asked to "go and remove the equipment" and that "the intent was not to remove the people or disperse the crowd."

Asked whether police were within their rights to spray and arrest protesters, she says, "So technically speaking, the police followed protocol. But what really made us all really wonder is that protocol is not appropriate all the time and mostly is not appropriate at least to be followed the way it was followed, my guess is, when you have a gathering of peaceful students."

from an interview with the president.

sorry hoss you dont have the right to go plop down where ever you want whenever you want.

I agree that their reaction was over zealous to say the least but if asked to leave by authorities, yes you must leave.

You cant sit outside a convient store if the owners ask you to leave either...
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: tonymctones on November 23, 2011, 05:20:00 PM
"According to eye witnesses the police arrived on the scene and were gentle and kind escorting protesters away while focusing calmly on their assignment: removing the tents. This went without incident, until a protester resisted the removal of a tent and put under arrest. As this was unfolding more and more bystanders gathered around the scene. With a few tents left standing a large circle had formed around the police and the protesters. In fact, two rings had formed with the inner ring largely recording the event up close and the outer ring just observing. The other protesters did not agree with the person being arrested and decided to sit on the floor with their arms interlocked (according to UC Berkeley Chancellor Birgeneau this is not an act of non-violent civil disobedience)."

yep sounds like there was absolutely no resistance to me...
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: Hugo Chavez on November 23, 2011, 05:24:19 PM
I guess u didn't here the police transcripts where Pike tells them he's going to mace them and they say "Ok". You're an idiot.
what crawled up your fucking ass lately?  It's a funny or die clip for fuck sake. ::)

You can't even joke with some of these touchy rightwingers lately...  That's not funny!!! take it back!!!! LOL  ::)
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: tonymctones on November 23, 2011, 05:26:16 PM
I dont know why you keep bringing up the security guards, I already told you they acted stupidely

what you cant seem to come to terms with is that just as they did so did the morons protesting.

You dont get to be an idiot and then act suprised when you get responded to like an idiot...
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: blacken700 on November 23, 2011, 05:28:52 PM


 
Guidelines for the use of pepper spray in the California State University system state that

the use of chemical agents…shall be limited to the protection of life or property when other means of lawful force are either unsuitable or unavailable.
Neither life nor property was endangered by the protest at UC Davis, and many other means of lawful force were available– including arresting the protestors.

The CSU guidelines specifically define the conditions for the use of pepper spray in what the report– rather chillingly– calls “the normal escalation of force”. It defines the appropriate situations as

to gain control of an unarmed attacker, or to overcome resistance likely to result in injury to either a suspect, a victim, or the officer.
Again, there were no attackers here– except the police; and nothing visible seems “likely to result in injury”– except the attack by the police.

Most damning is the contrast between the CSU guidelines and what the UC Davis officers did. The CSU guidelines say that pepper spray

is to be sprayed in a one second burst. It is not meant to be used repeatedly on an individual, or for long periods of time.
The emphasis on “one second burst” is in the original, not my addition. The UC Davis officer maintained a continous stream of pepper spray for far longer, and moved back and forth– that is, he repeatedly sprayed the same individuals.

Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: tonymctones on November 23, 2011, 05:31:16 PM

 
Guidelines for the use of pepper spray in the California State University system state that

the use of chemical agents…shall be limited to the protection of life or property when other means of lawful force are either unsuitable or unavailable.
Neither life nor property was endangered by the protest at UC Davis, and many other means of lawful force were available– including arresting the protestors.

The CSU guidelines specifically define the conditions for the use of pepper spray in what the report– rather chillingly– calls “the normal escalation of force”. It defines the appropriate situations as

to gain control of an unarmed attacker, or to overcome resistance likely to result in injury to either a suspect, a victim, or the officer.
Again, there were no attackers here– except the police; and nothing visible seems “likely to result in injury”– except the attack by the police.

Most damning is the contrast between the CSU guidelines and what the UC Davis officers did. The CSU guidelines say that pepper spray

is to be sprayed in a one second burst. It is not meant to be used repeatedly on an individual, or for long periods of time.
The emphasis on “one second burst” is in the original, not my addition. The UC Davis officer maintained a continous stream of pepper spray for far longer, and moved back and forth– that is, he repeatedly sprayed the same individuals.


AGAIN YOU IDIOT!!!!

I ALREADY SAID THE POLICE WERE STUPID!!!

THAT DOESNT EXCUSE THE IDIOCY OR WRONG DOINGS OF THE PROTESTORS

WHAT PART OF THAT DO YOU MORONS NOT UNDERSTAND, SERIOUSLY?
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: blacken700 on November 23, 2011, 05:34:43 PM
did you not say the police followed protocol
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: tonymctones on November 23, 2011, 05:39:27 PM
did you not say the police followed protocol
I DIDNT SAY THAT THE CHANCELLOR OF UC DAVIS SAID THAT YOU JACK ASS!!!

and she was referring to the decision to use the peppr spray not the application of it, if you read you would have understood that but its painfully apparent you have an extreme aversion to reading hence your youtube obsession.

The police shouldnt have used pepper spray, they shouldnt have used it in the way they did when they decided to use it.

THAT DOESNT EXCUSE THE IDIOCY OR WRONG DOINGS OF THE PROTESTORS

Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: avxo on November 23, 2011, 05:44:08 PM
"Sunday, the university television station, AggieTV, interviewed her about Friday's events. She says that police had been asked to "go and remove the equipment" and that "the intent was not to remove the people or disperse the crowd."

Asked whether police were within their rights to spray and arrest protesters, she says, "So technically speaking, the police followed protocol. But what really made us all really wonder is that protocol is not appropriate all the time and mostly is not appropriate at least to be followed the way it was followed, my guess is, when you have a gathering of peaceful students."

from an interview with the president.

Actually, those were statements by the UC-Davis Chancellor Linda Katehi, not UC President Mark Yudof. You should try to quote people accurately and correctly.

You will note that I didn't say the police didn't follow protocol. I said that the use of pepper spray was against the stated rules of the University of California System. I understand that this might be too subtle a distinction for you, but it is quite a substantial one.


sorry hoss you dont have the right to go plop down where ever you want whenever you want.

Sure - you can't camp on private property without the owner's permission, for example. But we are talking about government-owned land that is open to the public. We also have explicit University Regulations in the mix that permit protests, and statements by the Administration to the effect of "we fully and unequivocally support your right to protest peacefully." All this changes the calculus considerably.

Note that I do not disagree that UC-Davis can prohibit the use of tents or require permits for such tents. But that doesn't mean that they can limit or control the assembly of people, in general, unless they do so in a completely content-neutral way, which they could not have done in this case. This is well established precedent at the State and Federal levels.


Quote
I agree that their reaction was over zealous to say the least but if asked to leave by authorities, yes you must leave.

Their reaction was more idiotic than overzealous. According to Katehi, they had been told to do it peacefully, and to not do it if there were too many students or if the students were aggressive. In light of the UC-Berkeley incidents, the Police should have known that their actions were under a microscope and would be recorded and posted on the web. But that's a story for another time.

you are wrong about one other thing too. You state unequivocally that if you're asked by authorities to leave then you have to comply. That isn't quite as true as you make it out to be. I know you've probably watched a lot of Matlock reruns and you own a crappy light grey suit, but that your legal analysis skills leave a lot to be desired. You need at least 6 seasons of Law and Order, still.

Quote
You cant sit outside a convient store if the owners ask you to leave either...

They can ask. Doesn't mean you have to. You might be on a public sidewalk. For sure, if you are on private property, you have to comply with the wishes of the property owner, or face trespassing charges when the Police arrive. But the rules are quite different for public properties, like the UC-Davis campus and political protests in particular.
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: tonymctones on November 23, 2011, 05:48:34 PM
Actually, those were statements by the UC-Davis Chancellor Linda Katehi, not UC President Mark Yudof. You should try to quote people accurately and correctly.

You will note that I didn't say the police didn't follow protocol. I said that the use of pepper spray was against the stated rules of the University of California System. I understand that this might be too subtle a distinction for you, but it is quite a substantial one.


Sure - you can't camp on private property without the owner's permission, for example. But we are talking about government-owned land that is open to the public. We also have explicit University Regulations in the mix that permit protests, and statements by the Administration to the effect of "we fully and unequivocally support your right to protest peacefully." All this changes the calculus considerably.

Note that I do not disagree that UC-Davis can prohibit the use of tents or require permits for such tents. But that doesn't mean that they can limit or control the assembly of people, in general, unless they do so in a completely content-neutral way, which they could not have done in this case. This is well established precedent at the State and Federal levels.


Their reaction was more idiotic than overzealous. According to Katehi, they had been told to do it peacefully, and to not do it if there were too many students or if the students were aggressive. In light of the UC-Berkeley incidents, the Police should have known that their actions were under a microscope and would be recorded and posted on the web. But that's a story for another time.

you are wrong about one other thing too. You state unequivocally that if you're asked by authorities to leave then you have to comply. That isn't quite as true as you make it out to be. I know you've probably watched a lot of Matlock reruns and you own a crappy light grey suit, but that your legal analysis skills leave a lot to be desired. You need at least 6 seasons of Law and Order, still.

They can ask. Doesn't mean you have to. You might be on a public sidewalk. For sure, if you are on private property, you have to comply with the wishes of the property owner, or face trespassing charges when the Police arrive. But the rules are quite different for public properties, like the UC-Davis campus and political protests in particular.

first of all i corrected it see the post above yours hoss...

second lets drop the police schtick all together b/c i said in my first post of this thread the police were stupid so youre preaching to the choir.

There was obviously resistance which you originally said there was none of, the campus police actually do have the right to ask you to leave if your being a problem and disorderly like they became when they started resisting the removal of their tents...

sorry hoss deal with it....
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 23, 2011, 05:51:25 PM
Cops were stupid fro a PR point of view. 
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: avxo on November 23, 2011, 05:52:27 PM
[...] according to UC Berkeley Chancellor Birgeneau this is not an act of non-violent civil disobedience [...]

Just a small note: The opinion of the Chancellor of UC-Berkeley on whether an act is or is not non-violent civil disobedience is no more relevant than the opinion of the Chancellor of UC-Davis.
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 23, 2011, 05:53:49 PM
Just a small note: The opinion of the Chancellor of UC-Berkeley on whether an act is or is not non-violent civil disobedience is no more relevant than the opinion of the Chancellor of UC-Davis.

The cops IMHO acted stupidly , to borrow an Obama term, for using a highly emotionally charged tactic that they should have known was not going to work. 


Dumb dumb dumb.   
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: tonymctones on November 23, 2011, 05:54:08 PM
LOL at you trying to degrade me when you create straw men for arguments.

If your standing outside a convient store the owners have the right to have you removed. I didnt say the side walk did I moron?

you dont have the right to protest wherever and whenever you want...plain and simple

yes you have the right to peaceful assembly, you have the right to free speech but those rights end where my rights begin.

And if youre causing a disturbance on campus and I think even a jack ass like you can concede this is a disturbance you can be removed.

Do you think this kind of even is conducive to the learning of those students in class?

do you think it hinders the professors ability to hold a class?
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: avxo on November 23, 2011, 05:55:04 PM
first of all i corrected it see the post above yours hoss...

Cool - didn't see your post until after I posted.

There was obviously resistance which you originally said there was none of, the campus police actually do have the right to ask you to leave if your being a problem and disorderly like they became when they started resisting the removal of their tents...

I don't know that I would say there was obviously resistance, and I would be very very hesitant to label a sit-in as resistance (even non-violent). But ultimately, none of our opinions matters. The only opinions that will matter, in the end, are those of the Appellate Judges.
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: tonymctones on November 23, 2011, 05:55:33 PM
Just a small note: The opinion of the Chancellor of UC-Berkeley on whether an act is or is not non-violent civil disobedience is no more relevant than the opinion of the Chancellor of UC-Davis.
wonderful, can we drop the police side now your preaching to the choir broham...

Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: tonymctones on November 23, 2011, 05:57:42 PM
Cool - didn't see your post until after I posted.

I don't know that I would say there was obviously resistance, and I would be very very hesitant to label a sit-in as resistance (even non-violent). But ultimately, none of our opinions matters. The only opinions that will matter, in the end, are those of the Appellate Judges.

HAHAHAH HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF GHANDI? do yourself a favor and look up what kind of "resistence" he was known for...goodness gracious....

what about the student that resisted the tent being taken down? you know the one that got arrested and started the whole sit in?

let me guess you didnt know about that kid, right?

you didnt read any of my posts, right?

you didnt do any research before spouting off at the mouth, right?
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 23, 2011, 06:01:59 PM
the OWS movement is doing stuff right out of Rules for Radicals.    They love when the police overreact since it gives them PR victories. 
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: tonymctones on November 23, 2011, 06:02:32 PM
Cops were stupid fro a PR point of view.  
without a doubt, if the chancellor told them not to remove them only the tents they should have done that and only arrested the ones who tried to stop them like the one student.

Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: tonymctones on November 23, 2011, 06:05:24 PM
the OWS movement is doing stuff right out of Rules for Radicals.    They love when the police overreact since it gives them PR victories. 
yup and these morons were no different...

Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 23, 2011, 06:06:21 PM
without a doubt, if the chancellor told them not to remove them only the tents they should have done that and only arrested the ones who tried to stop them like the one student.



see, me, I am more PR and tactically minded.    I would have had the cameras rolling and have a few local business people show up with job applications and start talking to these people on camera.   Have a few schiff types there.   Have a few business people there to engage in debate.  


that would be guerilla tactics to destroy these people.  

Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 23, 2011, 06:08:01 PM
yup and these morons were no different...



I read all of Saul Alinsky books and know what these thugs are doing.   I read sun tzu, I read Machiavelli, I know what these thugs are up to.   


to defeat them, you need to think like them.   The idiot cops have no idea what they are doing. 
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: avxo on November 23, 2011, 06:08:50 PM
LOL at you trying to degrade me when you create straw men for arguments.

You are the one making blanket statements... don't blame me for challenging them.

If your standing outside a convient store the owners have the right to have you removed. I didnt say the side walk did I moron?

Oh no! Name-calling... I've been defeated!  ::)

you dont have the right to protest wherever and whenever you want...plain and simple

In public places you actually can pretty much do exactly that up to (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Up_to) health and hazard provisions.


do you think it hinders the professors ability to hold a class?

Having taught at a University with people protesting (not an Occupy protest, mind you) quite loudly I can tell you that my ability to teach a class is not hindered. To be fair, all the classes I teach this semester are on the second and third floors and none of the classrooms have windows. It can be a mild annoyance, but all in all, I've found most protests at my University to be fairly 'mild' and pedestrian affairs.
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: avxo on November 23, 2011, 06:12:37 PM
HAHAHAH HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF GHANDI? do yourself a favor and look up what kind of "resistence" he was known for...goodness gracious....

what about the student that resisted the tent being taken down? you know the one that got arrested and started the whole sit in?

let me guess you didnt know about that kid, right?

you didnt read any of my posts, right?

you didnt do any research before spouting off at the mouth, right?

I knew all about that kid. Going by what I've read (I have no first-hand knowledge of the facts) I have no problem with his arrest, and I didn't think it was an issue, hence my not mentioning it. As for the sit-in -- regardless of why it started -- I don't think that it was in any way, shape or form a threat or even out of order.
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 23, 2011, 06:14:30 PM
Protesting is good.    Protesting is people letting off steam for real or perceived grievances.   I would rather these people protest like they have than killing people or burning cars and buildings.  

That being said, there is a limit, and antagonizing a situation w peppery spray against non violent people is simply not productive one bit.  

I say this as someone who disagrees with OWS. 
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: Skeletor on November 23, 2011, 06:43:28 PM
Lol epic backfire for tonymctones on this one.

Btw, what's a "convient store"?
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 23, 2011, 06:48:21 PM
Lol epic backfire for tonymctones on this one.

Btw, what's a "convient store"?

see - to me it's more a tactical situation.  does pepper spraying these people help or hurt?   the cop in the clip hurt the cause IMHO to discredit these morons. 

These OWS people are fng idiots and ignoring the root cause of the problem.  They blame the symptom, not the cause, and anything bolstering their cause is not ok with me. 
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: Skeletor on November 23, 2011, 06:55:05 PM
I think it's not the police's job to discredit anyone (though they often do that). The OWS protesters might discredit themselves with their actions and statements but personally I think the police reacted in an inappropriate and excessive manner, not just counterproductive. Sure that pepper spraying might cause some people to feel sympathy for the protesters but for me it's more disconcerting how police react so excessively nowadays.
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 23, 2011, 06:57:12 PM
Exactly.   I don't support this police state crap.   that cop looked like he was enjoying this!   


see - even though I think OWS is stupid, I don't support cops acting like this at all.   Not cool at all. 
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: tonymctones on November 24, 2011, 09:11:51 AM
I knew all about that kid. Going by what I've read (I have no first-hand knowledge of the facts) I have no problem with his arrest, and I didn't think it was an issue, hence my not mentioning it. As for the sit-in -- regardless of why it started -- I don't think that it was in any way, shape or form a threat or even out of order.
so you knew all about the kid yet you still said they werent offereing any kind of resistence at all?

LFMAO really?

you look up ghandi yet kid?


Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: tonymctones on November 24, 2011, 09:14:17 AM
Lol epic backfire for tonymctones on this one.

Btw, what's a "convient store"?
LOL what the fuck are you talking about?

what have i been proven wrong on?

him and blacken want to keep yelling about the cops when i already said I agree with them, IN MY FIRST POST ON THE THREAD.

these morons cant seem to come to terms with the fact the students did resist and were not following the rules.

that doesnt excuse the police's actions either way but lets be adults about this and not think these moron protestors are innocent in this.
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: avxo on November 24, 2011, 10:51:28 AM
so you knew all about the kid yet you still said they werent offereing any kind of resistence at all?

LFMAO really?

you look up ghandi yet kid?

LOL @ kid ::)

It is well established precedent that there is a significant legal difference between resisting actively, as tent-boy did, and resisting passively and non-violently, as the kids who were sitting down did.

It's unclear to me why tent-boy is relevant to this discussion, given that we are talking about the pepper-spray incident. Even if his attempted arrest caused the other students to start a sit-in, it's still largely irrelevant.

What's next? You'll want to mention the weather? Or perhaps the dinner served the night before by one of the bystanders?
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: tonymctones on November 24, 2011, 10:56:34 AM
LOL @ kid ::)

It is well established precedent that there is a significant legal difference between resisting actively, as tent-boy did, and resisting passively and non-violently, as the kids who were sitting down did.

It's unclear to me why tent-boy is relevant to this discussion, given that we are talking about the pepper-spray incident. Even if his attempted arrest caused the other students to start a sit-in, it's still largely irrelevant.

What's next? You'll want to mention the weather? Or perhaps the dinner served the night before by one of the bystanders?
b/c its all part of the same event you moron!!!

if you dont think thats relevant then you must not think the chancellors words to the police are relevant? oh wait that supports your case so of course you do!!!

again bringing up the police, THEY WERE IN THE WRONG!!!!!

SO WERE THE IDIOTS PROTESTING!!!

GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD!!!

Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: avxo on November 24, 2011, 11:01:45 AM
b/c its all part of the same event you moron!!!

if you dont think thats relevant then you must not think the chancellors words to the police are relevant? oh wait that supports your case so of course you do!!!

again bringing up the police, THEY WERE IN THE WRONG!!!!!

SO WERE THE IDIOTS PROTESTING!!!

GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD!!!

Can you text-yell a little louder? I'm hard of text-hearing.

I don't think the words of the Chancellor are relevant vis-à-vis the incident itself: they're an ex-post facto assessment and evaluation of the event. They are relevant in understanding the position of the University Administration.

We don't disagree that the police are in the wrong, or that the student who tried to stop the Officers from dismantling a tent is in the wrong. Things are a little less clear when it comes to the kids who sat down.
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: 240 is Back on November 24, 2011, 12:05:51 PM
seriously, you could take spongebob off the air, and ppl would protest.  ppl are going to protest every 2 or 3 years.  they like it.  makes them hot, gives them some passionate sex or a reason to live, etc, that that's cool.

Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: tonymctones on November 24, 2011, 12:06:08 PM
Can you text-yell a little louder? I'm hard of text-hearing.

I don't think the words of the Chancellor are relevant vis-à-vis the incident itself: they're an ex-post facto assessment and evaluation of the event. They are relevant in understanding the position of the University Administration.

We don't disagree that the police are in the wrong, or that the student who tried to stop the Officers from dismantling a tent is in the wrong. Things are a little less clear when it comes to the kids who sat down.
agreed, now why did it take you so long to understand that?

the reason for the all caps is b/c you obviously werent reading or understanding the posts

youre a professor? I would hate to be in your class if your students have just as hard of a time getting you to understand such a clear point as this.

The students undoubtedly resisted(even if it was non violent) something you said didnt happen. Did the police respond in an equivlent manner, OBVIOUSLY they didnt.

but to say that the protestors didnt play a role in the escalation of the situation by their own wrong doing is disingenous. I understand their pov my university raised tuition every damn year I was there and it pissed me off everytime as well. That doesnt make resisting or forming human chains and blocking pathways etc ok...

Tell these morons to go to another college if they are that pissed off. Ppl dont seem to understand that they are patrons of the same shit their protesting. Same with OWS bullshit, these idiots cant seem to stop using the services and products of the companies their protesting long enought to see the IRONY.

stop using their shit, stop attending that college if youre that upset about their actions.
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: tonymctones on November 24, 2011, 12:07:16 PM
seriously, you could take spongebob off the air, and ppl would protest.  ppl are going to protest every 2 or 3 years.  they like it.  makes them hot, gives them some passionate sex or a reason to live, etc, that that's cool.
well I guess that makes it all ok and rational ppl should just sit back and let these morons youre describing act an ass then?

Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: 240 is Back on November 24, 2011, 02:15:25 PM
well I guess that makes it all ok and rational ppl should just sit back and let these morons youre describing act an ass then?



yes.  exactly.  let them act like asses.

but allowing them to dominate the political conversation... paul ryan getting his tampon all soacked with "these mobs are terrifying"... STFU pussies.  Man up, let the idiots protest their spongebob or iraq or wall street, or whatever.

Trueth is, they legitimize the idiots by acting all concerned.  Beck dedicating his airtime to trashing them gives them power.  I see it as 300 idiots in a park camping out and whining.  Who gives a shit?  When Rush talks about them for ten million listeners, suddenly they matter.
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: tonymctones on November 24, 2011, 02:20:31 PM
yes.  exactly.  let them act like asses.

but allowing them to dominate the political conversation... paul ryan getting his tampon all soacked with "these mobs are terrifying"... STFU pussies.  Man up, let the idiots protest their spongebob or iraq or wall street, or whatever.

Trueth is, they legitimize the idiots by acting all concerned.  Beck dedicating his airtime to trashing them gives them power.  I see it as 300 idiots in a park camping out and whining.  Who gives a shit?  When Rush talks about them for ten million listeners, suddenly they matter.
they arent just camping out, they are breaking laws, damaging property, wasting tax dollars etc...

if all they were doing was what you say that would be one thing but they arent.
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 24, 2011, 02:29:16 PM
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1255999_Pepper_Spraying_Cop_meme.html


Lmao at the pics. 
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: 240 is Back on November 24, 2011, 03:19:06 PM
they arent just camping out, they are breaking laws, damaging property, wasting tax dollars etc...

if all they were doing was what you say that would be one thing but they arent.

then arrest them for the misdemeanors and lock them up.

But really, there are people selling crack and smack on the corners and police ignore that shit on a dialy basis.  These wussies are camping in parks, whining and tweeting.  Not nearly as serious.  yet I don't see Beck crying about drug epidemics in poor neighborhoods.

The crimes are small, but i'm all for locking them up.  But crying about the potential for 'mob violence' is sheer bitch-made.  And you know it.
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: Skeletor on November 24, 2011, 03:26:55 PM
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1255999_Pepper_Spraying_Cop_meme.html


Lmao at the pics. 

Lol, lots of great pictures, that fat cop is the perfect meme material.
I liked this one:
(http://i40.tinypic.com/5me734.jpg)
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 24, 2011, 04:00:24 PM
Lol, lots of great pictures, that fat cop is the perfect meme material.
I liked this one:
(http://i40.tinypic.com/5me734.jpg)

I'm on a iPad, so cant post pics, but some are just wrong.    The one w  the birth certificate is funny.
Title: Re: Megyn Kelly Pepper Spray Thanksgiving
Post by: blacken700 on November 24, 2011, 05:34:54 PM
New Yorker Nick Douglas created an online petition to get Megyn Kelly to "eat or drink a full dose of pepper spray on national television," and it has already attracted more than 15,000 signatures.

Why would anyone want Kelly to do that?

Well, it all started when the anchor made some controversial comments to Bill O'Reilly on Monday's edition of "The O'Reilly Factor." The two Fox hosts were discussing the UC Davis police that pepper-sprayed protesters affiliated with the Occupy movement.

Kelly said that peppery spray is "a food product essentially," sparking a great deal of ire from those who know one thing -- pepper spray is nothing like food.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/23/us-foxnews-id...
 :D