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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: purenaturalstrength on December 08, 2011, 03:36:40 PM

Title: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on December 08, 2011, 03:36:40 PM
(http://www.true-natural-bodybuilding.com/graf/fibo-april-2009.jpg)

guy on the left is my height (6') yet weighs 220 (i weigh 185) and has 20" arms he says (i have 39.5cm/under16")

bodyfat is about the same i guess

Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: QuakerOats on December 08, 2011, 03:38:41 PM
hes taller than 6 feet and i believe the 20 inch arm claim, those arms are big, compare them to Dennis who's are 22.
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: wes on December 08, 2011, 03:40:13 PM
He might have bigger bones than you so he can carry more size............plus he probably isn`t doing a 5 X 5 routine.  ;D
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on December 08, 2011, 03:41:26 PM
hes taller than 6 feet and i believe the 20 inch arm claim, those arms are big, compare them to Dennis who's are 22.
When I am in my best condition, and that is about all year round unless I didn't work out for awhile because of one reason or the other, my body weight is about 100 kg (220 lbs) at a length of 183 cm (6 feet) and a body fat percentage of about 12%.

http://www.true-natural-bodybuilding.com/aboutme.html
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on December 08, 2011, 03:42:30 PM
He might have bigger bones than you so he can carry more size............plus he probably isn`t doing a 5 X 5 routine.  ;D

if bodyparts splits work for anyone it is actually proof they are juicing


such high volume yet low frequency are counterproductive for natural


i found out myself and saw a lot of people in the gym find out

Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: wes on December 08, 2011, 03:43:55 PM
When I am in my best condition, and that is about all year round unless I didn't work out for awhile because of one reason or the other, my body weight is about 100 kg (220 lbs) at a length of 183 cm (6 feet) and a body fat percentage of about 12%.

http://www.true-natural-bodybuilding.com/aboutme.html
OK,he`s older than you and has been training longer.

Take any two people,same height,all natural,and they will usually look completely different.
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: Hulkotron on December 08, 2011, 03:44:37 PM
I wish someone would max out your ability to post threads.
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on December 08, 2011, 03:45:29 PM
OK,he`s older than you and has been training longer.

Take any two people,same height,all natural,and they will usually look completely different.

that doesn't mean shit and you know it!

classic makebelieve trick to fool new kids


diminishing returns mean there is almost no difference between training 5 years and 15 years naturally
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: wes on December 08, 2011, 03:47:16 PM
if bodyparts splits work for anyone it is actually proof they are juicing


such high volume yet low frequency are counterproductive for natural


i found out myself and saw a lot of people in the gym find out


A closed mind is a terrible thing.

You may respond differently to it today.

Not necessarily high volume,but more reps, with a focus on squeezing and stretching the muscle you are training............and gaining on a split routine hardly means a person is on drugs.

Doing a 5 x 5 routine works great for adding strength and size,but your body will adapt to it and stop responding after a while just like it would on any other type of training.....this is the time to switch things up.
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: wes on December 08, 2011, 03:48:56 PM
that doesn't mean shit and you know it!

classic makebelieve trick to fool new kids


diminishing returns mean there is almost no difference between training 5 years and 15 years naturally
If you know the answers,why ask fucking questions?

GEEZUS!!
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on December 08, 2011, 03:50:29 PM
If you know the answers,why ask fucking questions?

GEEZUS!!

i want getbig to tell me this guy is not natural


but they refuse to do so
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: wes on December 08, 2011, 03:52:17 PM
This is my last response to any of your threads as it seems I`m the only idiot that helps you keep the fucking things going.

I won`t make this mistake again.
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: the trainer on December 08, 2011, 03:52:59 PM
When I am in my best condition, and that is about all year round unless I didn't work out for awhile because of one reason or the other, my body weight is about 100 kg (220 lbs) at a length of 183 cm (6 feet) and a body fat percentage of about 12%.

http://www.true-natural-bodybuilding.com/aboutme.html

do not be afraid of steroids take some anavar tabs stack with creatine for some strong lean gains, you can even put them in a vitamin bottle to hide them from your girlfriend.
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: njflex on December 08, 2011, 03:54:53 PM
This is my last response to any of your threads as it seems I`m the only idiot that helps you keep the fucking things going.

I won`t make this mistake again.
what are u gonna do wes,,,and either way the guy looks like he lifts,but every picture i see i'm not that impressed if he's drugged or not.
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: wes on December 08, 2011, 03:57:18 PM
what are u gonna do wes,,,and either way the guy looks like he lifts,but every picture i see i'm not that impressed if he's drugged or not.
5 X 5 routine bro......only good for power after you use it a while.

I think 5 x 5 should only be used occasionally to gain power on a certain lift,not exclusively for the whole body,but then again.

Just my opinion,but you need to get more blood in the muscle and 5 x5 just ain`t gonna` cut it.
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: ChevChelios on December 08, 2011, 03:57:37 PM
Here is your answers,on his webpage:

"Currently I work since 2003 in one of the biggest pharmaceutical companies of the world,"

Need i say more?
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on December 08, 2011, 03:59:28 PM
5 X 5 routine bro......only good for power after you use it a while.

I think 5 x 5 should only be used occasionally to gain power on a certain lift,not exclusively for the whole body,but then again.

Just my opinion,but you need to get more blood in the muscle and 5 x5 just ain`t gonna` cut it.

MORE BRO SCIENCE! god you are horrible


"if pump or soreness were an indication of growth then all the knuckle heads at gold's gym would be sporting 24" arms" --mike mentzer
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: wes on December 08, 2011, 03:59:31 PM
Here is your answers,on his webpage:

"Currently I work since 2003 in one of the biggest pharmaceutical companies of the world,"

Need i say more?
BINGO!!  ;D
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on December 08, 2011, 04:09:06 PM
sometimes i'd like to beat the truth out of these so-called naturals with a bat
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: QuakerOats on December 08, 2011, 07:55:18 PM
i want getbig to tell me this guy is not natural


but they refuse to do so
he isnt natural, why do you think he is? because he told you? that is big guy, maybe not IFBB  big but way too big to be natural.
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not nat
Post by: Parker on December 08, 2011, 08:07:00 PM
Aren't you 23? Well you've got another 20 some yrs to see if you have maxed out.
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: Max B on December 08, 2011, 08:45:18 PM
if bodyparts splits work for anyone it is actually proof they are juicing


such high volume yet low frequency are counterproductive for natural


i found out myself and saw a lot of people in the gym find out




you're pathetic dude. 
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: BILL ANVIL on December 08, 2011, 09:11:15 PM
Big dude, looks natural too. Big armed, pencil neck dork 20"+
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: Mawse on December 08, 2011, 09:22:54 PM
he comes from a small town which means he's probably natural, also he has been training for 10 years and probably does something like layne norton's PHAT routine or DC training.

anyone can have 20" arms naturally if they just believe in themselves and don't set limits.
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: howardroark on December 08, 2011, 09:24:09 PM
Why are you so crazy jealous about this guy when people routinely tell you he could be natural?
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: aesthetics on December 08, 2011, 09:26:08 PM
if bodyparts splits work for anyone it is actually proof they are juicing


such high volume yet low frequency are counterproductive for natural


i found out myself and saw a lot of people in the gym find out



i don't agree with this. it depends on how much rest you get
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: dyslexic on December 08, 2011, 10:18:59 PM
I....


just....


think this thread is like so many others that suck.
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on December 09, 2011, 12:16:04 AM
he isnt natural, why do you think he is? because he told you? that is big ####, maybe not IFBB  big but way too big to be natural.

guy got a whole website saying he is natural
http://www.true-natural-bodybuilding.com/

and i made alrerady 2 threads about it to see what getbig thinks and surprisingly all getbiggers were like "looks natural, not that lean etc"


was the weirdest thing ever
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: lm on December 09, 2011, 01:28:05 AM
He has so little interest in drugs that he did a PhD in BioChemistry, works for a Pharmaceutical and created a website called "True Natural"... lol
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: Dr Dutch on December 09, 2011, 02:17:10 AM
#### got a whole website saying he is natural
http://www.true-natural-bodybuilding.com/

and i made alrerady 2 threads about it to see what getbig thinks and surprisingly all getbiggers were like "looks natural, not that lean etc"


Jos is natural. And chasing away dudes like Wes will not help you on your quest for info to grow some muscle, sir..
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on December 09, 2011, 02:37:12 AM
Jos is natural. And chasing away dudes like Wes will not help you on your quest for info to grow some muscle, sir..

you keep defending this guy but what is your response to my question in this thread?

"do you think it is god given genetics or do you think maybe he took the performance enhancers" --Gregg Valentino


lol
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: Dr Dutch on December 09, 2011, 02:38:43 AM
you keep defending this guy but what is your response to my question in this thread?

"do you think it is god given genetics or do you think maybe he took the performance enhancers" --Gregg Valentino


lol
You know the answer, PNS...
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on December 09, 2011, 02:39:49 AM
You know the answer, PNS...
HA! so you are admitting now


 ::)
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: dj181 on December 09, 2011, 03:37:30 AM
if bodyparts splits work for anyone it is actually proof they are juicing


such high volume yet low frequency are counterproductive for natural


i found out myself and saw a lot of people in the gym find out



So are you saying that a natural needs higher frequency and lower volume?
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: Dr Dutch on December 09, 2011, 06:40:14 AM
HA! so you are admitting now


 ::)
No, PNS, you are in denial...
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: ChevChelios on December 09, 2011, 06:59:04 AM
Here is your answers,on his webpage:

"Currently I work since 2003 in one of the biggest pharmaceutical companies of the world,"

Need i say more?

Need i repeat?LOL,this guy is not natural by miles,he may look for someone but how many natural with 20' inch arms have you seen?FFS people,this is 2012,you have gh15 bible,you are on thunderdome and you keep saying this is natural.Jeez  ::)
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: Max B on December 09, 2011, 07:01:02 AM
Need i repeat?LOL,this guy is not natural by miles,he may look for someone but how many natural with 20' inch arms have you seen?FFS people,this is 2012,you have gh15 bible,you are on thunderdome and you keep saying this is natural.Jeez  ::)

Who cares he looks like shit..:
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: oldtimer1 on December 09, 2011, 07:39:04 AM
The three most important things for steroid free lifters are  genetics, work ethic and a good program in that order.

 I think a lot of steroid free lifters should stop buying bodybuilding magazines because they give false hope to guys that lift without drugs. Half of the magazines are ads for snake oils that don't do anything for bodybuilding.  

In a perfect utopia bodybuilding dream world it would be great to see what the champs look like training off of drugs for a year. Many would look like complete crap.  Would you then take their training advice?

A whole body routine is great for steroid free bodybuilders. Many say this is outdated and a beginners routine. In truth it's way harder to do than a split routine. Try this routine I did yesterday and tell me it's easy.  If it is then up the weight.

1. Power cleans 3 x 3 then 1 x 1
2. Squats 2 x 8
3. lunges 1 x 8
4. standing leg curls 2 x 12
5. dumbbell bench press 2 x 8
6. chins 2 x max
7. low back cable rows 2 x 12
8. military presses 2 x 8 (clean if off the floor to begin)
9. dumbbell laterals 2 x 10
10. barbell curls 2 x 10
11. weighted dips 2 x10
12. hanging leg raises 2 x max
13. pulley ab crunches 2 x 20
14. standing calf raise 2 x15
15. weighted back extensions
16. neck and grip work

It's a brutal routine but working three times a week for just two or three weeks works incredible. You can change the exercises every two or three weeks for change.

There are good splits for naturals.  One of my favorite is Monday-chest and back. Wed. is legs. Friday is delts and arms.  Three, sometimes four exercises a body part for 2 work sets not counting warm ups as needed.
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: BILL ANVIL on December 09, 2011, 10:23:12 AM
The three most important things for steroid free lifters are  genetics, work ethic and a good program in that order.

 I think a lot of steroid free lifters should stop buying bodybuilding magazines because they give false hope to guys that lift without drugs. Half of the magazines are ads for snake oils that don't do anything for bodybuilding.  

In a perfect utopia bodybuilding dream world it would be great to see what the champs look like training off of drugs for a year. Many would look like complete crap.  Would you then take their training advice?

A whole body routine is great for steroid free bodybuilders. Many say this is outdated and a beginners routine. In truth it's way harder to do than a split routine. Try this routine I did yesterday and tell me it's easy.  If it is then up the weight.

1. Power cleans 3 x 3 then 1 x 1
2. Squats 2 x 8
3. lunges 1 x 8
4. standing leg curls 2 x 12
5. dumbbell bench press 2 x 8
6. chins 2 x max
7. low back cable rows 2 x 12
8. military presses 2 x 8 (clean if off the floor to begin)
9. dumbbell laterals 2 x 10
10. barbell curls 2 x 10
11. weighted dips 2 x10
12. hanging leg raises 2 x max
13. pulley ab crunches 2 x 20
14. standing calf raise 2 x15
15. weighted back extensions
16. neck and grip work

It's a brutal routine but working three times a week for just two or three weeks works incredible. You can change the exercises every two or three weeks for change.

There are good splits for naturals.  One of my favorite is Monday-chest and back. Wed. is legs. Friday is delts and arms.  Three, sometimes four exercises a body part for 2 work sets not counting warm ups as needed.

That routine with 3 squares a day will get you big, no doubt.
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: ironneck on December 09, 2011, 10:37:13 AM
a natural looks only impressive to normal people
if you wanna be impressive for big guys you gotta juice
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: Spicoli on December 09, 2011, 12:11:23 PM
sometimes i'd like to beat the truth out of these so-called naturals with a bat

Yea I know what you mean!!! Sometimes I`d like to beat some people with a bat too  :-*
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: Dr Dutch on December 09, 2011, 12:19:19 PM
Yea I know what you mean!!! Sometimes I`d like to beat some people with a bat too  :-*
hahahaha   :D
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: aesthetics on December 09, 2011, 12:34:22 PM
a natural looks only impressive to normal people
if you wanna be impressive for big guys you gotta juice

a natural doesn't even look impressive to most normal people because they are inundiated with cover mags of people juiced up to their gills with hard and dry muscles at 5% bodyfat with tons of photoshop. a natural will never get to 5% bodyfat while still being hard, he'll go flat no matter what he does.
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: ChevChelios on December 09, 2011, 12:39:30 PM
tell that to supplement buyers  ::)
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: PhysiqueNatural on December 09, 2011, 12:59:17 PM
A closed mind is a terrible thing.

You may respond differently to it today.

Not necessarily high volume,but more reps, with a focus on squeezing and stretching the muscle you are training............and gaining on a split routine hardly means a person is on drugs.

Doing a 5 x 5 routine works great for adding strength and size,but your body will adapt to it and stop responding after a while just like it would on any other type of training.....this is the time to switch things up.
Spot on with that post man.
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: Dr Dutch on December 09, 2011, 01:04:32 PM
Spot on with that post man.
Were the hell have you been, PN?  Or did you have a gimmick do the last few months ?
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: ChevChelios on December 09, 2011, 01:05:50 PM
He got owned with his natural claimed status and now he partially recovered... ::)
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: PhysiqueNatural on December 09, 2011, 01:09:11 PM
Were the hell have you been, PN?  Or did you have a gimmick do the last few months ?
No gimmick, i just read the posts and don't post! :)
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: PhysiqueNatural on December 09, 2011, 01:11:10 PM
He got owned with his natural claimed status and now he partially recovered... ::)
I have other things to do like training and focusing on improvements in my physique for example, and i train for myself first always have and always will. ;)
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: Dr Dutch on December 09, 2011, 01:12:36 PM
I think PN can give PNS really good tips !
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: wes on December 09, 2011, 01:13:15 PM
Spot on with that post man.
Thanks bud.   ;)
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: PhysiqueNatural on December 09, 2011, 01:14:35 PM
Thanks bud.   ;)
You know your shit man, if someone listens to your advice they would actually improve.
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: wes on December 09, 2011, 01:17:27 PM
You know your shit man, if someone listens to your advice they would actually improve.
Thanks dude,I try.  :(
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: PhysiqueNatural on December 09, 2011, 01:18:12 PM
I think PN can give PNS really good tips !
If he would ask no problem but the main thing is the dude is very negative and is comparing himself to other athletes, just do your thing what comes out of it comes its still your hard work.
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: wes on December 09, 2011, 01:20:07 PM
If he would ask no problem but the main thing is the dude is very negative and is comparing himself to other athletes, just do your thing what comes out of it comes its still your hard work.
Very true.
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on December 09, 2011, 07:40:51 PM
So are you saying that a natural needs higher frequency and lower volume?

yes the bodypart splits only came along when the drugs did

elite fitness forums explained this to me
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: wes on December 09, 2011, 08:27:58 PM
yes the bodypart splits only came along when the drugs did

elite fitness forums explained this to me
LOL   :D
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: dj181 on December 10, 2011, 02:47:36 AM
yes the bodypart splits only came along when the drugs did

elite fitness forums explained this to me

You're a prime example of what AJ used to say, and that was that the legs respond fastest to regular training. He said it was because no other exercise approaches squats as far as "intensity of effort" is concerned, and that's why the legs had the fastest response. Do you agree with this statement? Also, does anybody you know follow very abbreviated training (ie. Mentzer's consolidated routine)? And if so, are they making progress on it?
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on December 10, 2011, 02:59:52 AM
You're a prime example of what AJ used to say, and that was that the legs respond fastest to regular training. He said it was because no other exercise approaches squats as far as "intensity of effort" is concerned, and that's why the legs had the fastest response. Do you agree with this statement? Also, does anybody you know follow very abbreviated training (ie. Mentzer's consolidated routine)? And if so, are they making progress on it?
Well I tried bodypart splits for nearly a year and all what happened was a lot of soreness but not a lot of over compensation, in fact my strength regressed and I did not see "hypertrophy" or whatever


I can't find the topic but a couple of very knowledgeable guys on elitefitness agreed on something like this

*bodypart splits use a ton of volume about once a week on every muscle group, this is flawed for the natural because
-the volume will require too much off the body's limited recovery ability, this way chances of overcompensation being achieved are slim if at all

-the frequency is too low, there is too much time in between training the same muscles, this way the overcompensation, if it worked at all will have disappeared again and your strength will be lower again so you are going back and forth at best (in many cases like mine you will actually go backwards)

*the reason this approach of "destroy every muscle into jiggly shit every week" is because of the drugs

this is what they said


these same guys also thought mike mentzer was some sort of scam artist, because the training he used in his day was very similar to HST

while his ideas sound great in theory I have never seen or heard a legitimate success story


and about the "intensity of effort" thing, I do think that with squats, assuming your volume and frequency is at an optimal level, progress proportionally to the effort you put in the training, which can be quite grueling, because a muscle that large requires you to activate a lot more motor units than curls so you really need to isolate your mind from outside distractions and muster all the aggression you can get to go to the maximum effort level

I have not really tried abreviated training but I have read about it in Stuart McRoberts book, problem with his book (beyond brawn) is I found it so repetitive and didnt get much practical directions from it


that's why i went the "5x5" route with glenn pendley/mark rippetoe influenced programs (bill starr influenced)
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: dj181 on December 10, 2011, 03:21:21 AM
Well I tried bodypart splits for nearly a year and all what happened was a lot of soreness but not a lot of over compensation, in fact my strength regressed and I did not see "hypertrophy" or whatever


I can't find the topic but a couple of very knowledgeable guys on elitefitness agreed on something like this

*bodypart splits use a ton of volume about once a week on every muscle group, this is flawed for the natural because
-the volume will require too much off the body's limited recovery ability, this way chances of overcompensation being achieved are slim if at all

-the frequency is too low, there is too much time in between training the same muscles, this way the overcompensation, if it worked at all will have disappeared again and your strength will be lower again so you are going back and forth at best (in many cases like mine you will actually go backwards)

*the reason this approach of "destroy every muscle into jiggly shit every week" is because of the drugs

this is what they said


these same guys also thought mike mentzer was some sort of scam artist, because the training he used in his day was very similar to HST

while his ideas sound great in theory I have never seen or heard a legitimate success story


and about the "intensity of effort" thing, I do think that with squats, assuming your volume and frequency is at an optimal level, progress proportionally to the effort you put in the training, which can be quite grueling, because a muscle that large requires you to activate a lot more motor units than curls so you really need to isolate your mind from outside distractions and muster all the aggression you can get to go to the maximum effort level

I have not really tried abreviated training but I have read about it in Stuart McRoberts book, problem with his book (beyond brawn) is I found it so repetitive and didnt get much practical directions from it


that's why i went the "5x5" route with glenn pendley/mark rippetoe influenced programs (bill starr influenced)

Thanks for the detailed answer man. Back in AJ's early writing he said that muscle de-compensation starts to occur after 96 hours of no training. What do you think about that statement?
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on December 10, 2011, 03:29:17 AM
Thanks for the detailed answer man. Back in AJ's early writing he said that muscle de-compensation starts to occur after 96 hours of no training. What do you think about that statement?
well i do think your strength gain will indeed disappear again if you train on monday you would need to train that exercise definitely again by fridayn that's why all those 5x5 programs do squats, benches and rows on monday and friday. they will do forexample 5x5 squats on monday, 1x5 squat on friday and the other way round with bench press

Like I said I tried the whole "leg day", "chest day" and all you are doing is wasting your recovery ability for nothing, because your revocery period will be longer than the overcompensation time frame


arthur dreshler, author of the the weightlifting encyclopedia make a brilliant point about this


he said something like

"think about weightlifting like adaptation in general, for example the way you develop caluses on the hands...when you work in the garden once in a while you will not get calluses, when you work too much all of the sudden you will get blisters and by the time the blister healed the callus inducing effect will be gone and the hand will be soft again. it is only when you work just enough and with the right frequency that you will see a steady callus build up. this is the same way with everything in adaptation, training effect and recovery is similar"

(same with tanning, sun burn, etc etc)

Title: does growth hormone cause, hands, feet, and skull to grow?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on December 10, 2011, 04:58:39 AM
I have big feet I don't want them to be bigger it looks like clown feet
Title: Re: does growth hormone cause, hands, feet, and skull to grow?
Post by: WillGrant on December 10, 2011, 04:59:14 AM
You make posts like a clown
Title: Re: does growth hormone cause, hands, feet, and skull to grow?
Post by: wes on December 10, 2011, 04:59:32 AM
TERRIBLE GIMMICK

 :'(
Title: Re: does growth hormone cause, hands, feet, and skull to grow?
Post by: WillGrant on December 10, 2011, 05:03:02 AM
Ungaying thread

(http://i.imgur.com/DLTjN.jpg)
Title: Re: does growth hormone cause, hands, feet, and skull to grow?
Post by: wes on December 10, 2011, 05:05:53 AM
Thank you Will.  :)
Title: Re: does growth hormone cause, hands, feet, and skull to grow?
Post by: WillGrant on December 10, 2011, 05:08:10 AM
Thank you Will.  :)
;)

(http://i.imgur.com/qa0xp.jpg)
Title: Re: does growth hormone cause, hands, feet, and skull to grow?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on December 10, 2011, 05:10:51 AM
Ungaying thread

(http://i.imgur.com/DLTjN.jpg)

subpar glute-ham tie in and no ham development whatsoever


the illusion of roundness is just created by excessive lordosis

superior:
(http://www.bodybuildbid.com/bodypics/fempics/murray/mur2.jpg)
Title: Re: does growth hormone cause, hands, feet, and skull to grow?
Post by: purenaturalstrength on December 10, 2011, 05:30:33 AM
it's a legitimate question, why not address it properly
Title: Re: does growth hormone cause, hands, feet, and skull to grow?
Post by: wes on December 10, 2011, 05:32:24 AM
it's a legitimate question, why not address it properly

Title: Re: does growth hormone cause, hands, feet, and skull to grow?
Post by: Swlabr on December 10, 2011, 05:33:12 AM
;D
Title: Re: does growth hormone cause, hands, feet, and skull to grow?
Post by: Tito24 on December 10, 2011, 05:48:14 AM
will is a great poster , hell be the next one on the payroll of ron avidan.
Title: yesterday after my squats I went straight into loading up on alcohol and party
Post by: purenaturalstrength on December 10, 2011, 06:26:33 AM
will i still have some training effect tho?
Title: Re: yesterday after my squats I went straight into loading up on alcohol and party
Post by: Swlabr on December 10, 2011, 06:27:12 AM
Only if you're on hormones. If not, no, your body is in a catabolic state, say goodbye to your gains.
Title: Re: yesterday after my squats I went straight into loading up on alcohol and party
Post by: purenaturalstrength on December 10, 2011, 06:32:50 AM
Only if you're on hormones. If not, no, your body is in a catabolic state, say goodbye to your gains.

ah fuck
Title: Re: yesterday after my squats I went straight into loading up on alcohol and party
Post by: Swlabr on December 10, 2011, 06:33:49 AM
ah fuck

Yeah. How much did you squat?
Title: Re: yesterday after my squats I went straight into loading up on alcohol and party
Post by: wes on December 10, 2011, 06:36:02 AM
will i still have some training effect tho?
(http://www.fugly.com/media/IMAGES/Random/please_die.jpg)
Title: Re: yesterday after my squats I went straight into loading up on alcohol and party
Post by: purenaturalstrength on December 10, 2011, 06:37:45 AM
Yeah. How much did you squat?
5x5x150kg

my best is 5x5x155 but was in a regression period recently now improving again
Title: Re: yesterday after my squats I went straight into loading up on alcohol and party
Post by: dustin on December 10, 2011, 06:38:54 AM
I don't drink a ton but I have been getting buzzed a little more often than in the past. I haven't noticed anything yet, but then again I'm on dem dere hormonas.

I just have a couple stiff drinks in the evening with a fine marijuana cigarette to unwind.
Title: Re: yesterday after my squats I went straight into loading up on alcohol and party
Post by: purenaturalstrength on December 10, 2011, 06:39:20 AM
(http://www.fugly.com/media/IMAGES/Random/please_die.jpg)

You're just angry because I scorned your bro science advice
Title: Re: yesterday after my squats I went straight into loading up on alcohol and party
Post by: Swlabr on December 10, 2011, 06:40:03 AM
5x5x150kg

my best is 5x5x155 but was in a regression period recently now improving again

How long have you been training?
Title: Re: yesterday after my squats I went straight into loading up on alcohol and party
Post by: purenaturalstrength on December 10, 2011, 06:40:09 AM
I don't drink a ton but I have been getting buzzed a little more often than in the past. I haven't noticed anything yet, but then again I'm on dem dere hormonas.

I just have a couple stiff drinks in the evening with a fine marijuana cigarette to unwind.

i drank 2 beers and i believe 3 cans of whiskey cola mixture
Title: Re: yesterday after my squats I went straight into loading up on alcohol and party
Post by: purenaturalstrength on December 10, 2011, 06:41:59 AM
How long have you been training?

a long time  :-X

but at least the squats were high bar full depth with no belt or knee stuff

maybe next year start pumping hormones in my body like the rest of getbig

but first think it through like an old jew
Title: Re: yesterday after my squats I went straight into loading up on alcohol and party
Post by: Swlabr on December 10, 2011, 06:43:10 AM
a long time  :-X

but at least the squats were high bar full depth with no belt or knee stuff

maybe next year start pumping hormones in my body like the rest of getbig

but first think it through like an old jew

lol

Me - training for 1.5 years or so - 150x14 squat, 180x6.

Start hormonising, you pussy.
Title: Re: yesterday after my squats I went straight into loading up on alcohol and party
Post by: Borracho on December 10, 2011, 06:46:11 AM
i drank 2 beers and i believe 3 cans of whiskey cola mixture

hahah you animal.
Title: Re: yesterday after my squats I went straight into loading up on alcohol and party
Post by: wes on December 10, 2011, 06:54:58 AM
i drank 2 beers and i believe 3 cans of whiskey cola mixture
(http://www.my-two-cents.net/forenpix/come-on-how-gay-is-that.jpg)
Title: Re: yesterday after my squats I went straight into loading up on alcohol and party
Post by: booty on December 10, 2011, 06:56:59 AM
i drank 2 beers and i believe 3 cans of whiskey cola mixture
Did you eat after you trained? 
Title: Re: yesterday after my squats I went straight into loading up on alcohol and party
Post by: purenaturalstrength on December 10, 2011, 06:59:48 AM
Did you eat after you trained? 

no nothing only drinking

 :-\

but i stuffed all day so figured it was still digesting so it wouldnt matter?
Title: Re: yesterday after my squats I went straight into loading up on alcohol and party
Post by: booty on December 10, 2011, 07:03:02 AM
no nothing only drinking

 :-\

but i stuffed all day so figured it was still digesting so it wouldnt matter?
When you say stuffed, what did you eat that day?  Diet is extremely important if you want to gain lean muscle mass.  It's okay to have a couple of drinks now and then, but you probably should have eaten a good nutrious meal first. 
Title: Re: yesterday after my squats I went straight into loading up on alcohol and party
Post by: purenaturalstrength on December 10, 2011, 07:06:44 AM
When you say stuffed, what did you eat that day?  Diet is extremely important if you want to gain lean muscle mass.  It's okay to have a couple of drinks now and then, but you probably should have eaten a good nutrious meal first. 

breakfast 2 cups of oats blended with water and protein shake, then pasta with rice a couple hours later then 3 chicken pasta/rice meals at work

about 3000kcal probably
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: oldtimer1 on December 10, 2011, 08:12:52 AM
Whole routines are ideal for natural trainers. Splits work too.  In splits there are over laps of training bodyparts. You can't really isolate the body to well.  Lets take a typical split.  One day is chest and back. The next is legs and the last is delts/arms.  When you train chest and back there is absolutely no way you can train them without training the tricep, bicep with some delt involvement.  Doing deadlifts on chest and back day you are training legs.  On delt and arm day lets say one of your tricep exercises are weighted dips or close grips. You are then training chest too.  So split routines you are still hitting the other bodyparts.

Whole body routines are constantly given the beginner status but as I said previous I think it's way harder than split routines.
Title: Re: does growth hormone cause, hands, feet, and skull to grow?
Post by: g101 on December 10, 2011, 09:34:42 AM
depends on dose, how long you use gh for and most importantly purity/quality of the GH
Title: Re: does growth hormone cause, hands, feet, and skull to grow?
Post by: wes on December 10, 2011, 09:37:25 AM
depends on dose, how long you use gh for and most importantly purity/quality of the GH
(http://www.hedweb.com/animimag/parrot.jpg)
Title: Re: does growth hormone cause, hands, feet, and skull to grow?
Post by: Archer77 on December 10, 2011, 09:38:15 AM
Thank you Will.  :)

x2
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: Per Se on December 10, 2011, 09:39:01 AM
(http://www.true-natural-bodybuilding.com/graf/fibo-april-2009.jpg)

guy on the left is my height (6') yet weighs 220 (i weigh 185) and has 20" arms he says (i have 39.5cm/under16")

bodyfat is about the same i guess



I've seen this guy's website.  He looks big.  But he doesn't look in any way outstanding.  I don't believe that he has awesome genetics.  Just a guy who's been training hard for a long time.
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: Per Se on December 10, 2011, 09:40:39 AM
If he would ask no problem but the main thing is the dude is very negative and is comparing himself to other athletes, just do your thing what comes out of it comes its still your hard work.

Agreed.
Title: Re: if you all agree I'm maxed out naturally, does that mean this guy is not natty?
Post by: JZMB on December 10, 2011, 03:33:36 PM
anything over 14'' for me is hormonized  ::)