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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Soul Crusher on January 20, 2012, 05:13:51 AM
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Dems propose 'Reasonable Profits Board' to regulate oil company profits
By Pete Kasperowicz - 01/19/12 10:20 AM ET
http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/205085-dems-propose-reasonable-profits-board-to-regulate-oil-company-profits
Six House Democrats, led by Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio), want to set up a "Reasonable Profits Board" to control gas profits.
The Democrats, worried about higher gas prices, want to set up a board that would apply a "windfall profit tax" as high as 100 percent on the sale of oil and gas, according to their legislation. The bill provides no specific guidance for how the board would determine what constitutes a reasonable profit.
The Gas Price Spike Act, H.R. 3784, would apply a windfall tax on the sale of oil and gas that ranges from 50 percent to 100 percent on all surplus earnings exceeding "a reasonable profit." It would set up a Reasonable Profits Board made up of three presidential nominees that will serve three-year terms. Unlike other bills setting up advisory boards, the Reasonable Profits Board would not be made up of any nominees from Congress.
The bill would also seem to exclude industry representatives from the board, as it says members "shall have no financial interests in any of the businesses for which reasonable profits are determined by the Board."
According to the bill, a windfall tax of 50 percent would be applied when the sale of oil or gas leads to a profit of between 100 percent and 102 percent of a reasonable profit. The windfall tax would jump to 75 percent when the profit is between 102 and 105 percent of a reasonable profit, and above that, the windfall tax would be 100 percent. The bill also specifies that the oil-and-gas companies, as the seller, would have to pay this tax.
Kucinich said these tax revenues would be used to fund alternative transportation programs when oil-and-gas prices spike.
"Gas prices continue to rise, creating a hardship for the American people," he said. "At the same time, oil companies are making record profits gouging their customers. This bill would tax only the excess profits and create forward-thinking transportation alternatives."
Specifically, he said the money would be used to fund a tax credit on the purchase of fuel-efficient cars and set up a grant program for mass transit programs when oil-and-gas prices are high.
The bill does not estimate the size of these grants or the amount of money that might be collected through the tax.
Co-sponsoring the bill are five other Democrats: Reps. John Conyers Jr. (Mich.), Bob Filner (Calif.), Marcia Fudge (Ohio), Jim Langevin (R.I.), and Lynn Woolsey (Calif.).
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As much as I hate the idea in principal, the fact that the oil companies wind up with well over 150% profits make this seem like a good deal, as the people running the oil companies seemingly are unable to regulate themselves to a decent profit, instead wanting to gouge everyone for every damn penny they have.
That being said - IMHO, its not our oil companies here that need to be regulated as much as it is the OPEC nations that are charging us out the ass for oil. In my uneducated opinion this is just something to try to parade to people pissed about high gas prices...
"Look, were trying to bring down energy prices! Doesnt matter that Obama just refused to allow crude to come in from Canada, or that he refused permits to drill in the gulf, or that he's forcing coal refineries to shut down! Were trying by regulating the Oil companies (Only the ones at home though, the ones really fucking us are overseas and we cant do a damn thing about them)" ::)
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tough call here.
if US oil companies are making the greatest profits in the history of humanity - yet the US govt is 2-3 years away from bankruptcy - then maybe the tax code and subsidy structure needs looked at ;)
Besides, if you support 1% tax on the oil companies, or a 1% subsudy for them - then ALREADY you support govt interfering with capitalism. So now we're just trying to find what number you consider acceptable.
It's like a girl agreeing she would screw some homeless dude for a million dollars. Then, when asked if she's screw him for $10, she says "No, what kind of girl do you think I am?" Honey, we've already determined that. Now we're just trying to negotiate the price. If you agree the oil companies deserve ANY subsidy or tax break, of if you feel ANY company should pay ANY taxes - then already you support the govt interfering, and you are now a pure capitalist.
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tough call here.
if US oil companies are making the greatest profits in the history of humanity - yet the US govt is 2-3 years away from bankruptcy - then maybe the tax code and subsidy structure needs looked at ;)
Besides, if you support 1% tax on the oil companies, or a 1% subsudy for them - then ALREADY you support govt interfering with capitalism. So now we're just trying to find what number you consider acceptable.
It's like a girl agreeing she would screw some homeless dude for a million dollars. Then, when asked if she's screw him for $10, she says "No, what kind of girl do you think I am?" Honey, we've already determined that. Now we're just trying to negotiate the price. If you agree the oil companies deserve ANY subsidy or tax break, of if you feel ANY company should pay ANY taxes - then already you support the govt interfering, and you are now a pure capitalist.
Agree on everything but the girl.
Everyone has a price. If someone offered a mil to fuck my wife once, your damn right she's getting his dick. 1000? No way.
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Agree on everything but the girl.
Everyone has a price. If someone offered a mil to fuck my wife once, your damn right she's getting his dick. 1000? No way.
agreed - but you could and would never stand up and say "I'm a marriage purist and would never allow an open marriage".
The people who say "i fully support capitalism" then are okay with all sorts of govt intervention - then get all mad when people want to slow down oil profits?
No, they support a system of part capitalism, part govt intervention.
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This idea is pure nonsense. It's govt at it's tyrannical worst.
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This idea is pure nonsense. It's govt at it's tyrannical worst.
but you, 33, support SOME govt involvement in taxation and subsidies, right?
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Right on cue, here's the Ron Paul fan to advocate for more central planning. There is no fucking way that you're a RP supporter as he would NEVER be in favor of giving the government the ability to dictate profits for a company.
Last time this country went after "windfall profits" we got the gas lines of the Jimmuh years.
Fuck you.
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Right on cue, here's the Ron Paul fan to advocate for more central planning. There is no fucking way that you're a RP supporter as he would NEVER be in favor of giving the government the ability to dictate profits for a company.
Last time this country went after "windfall profits" we got the gas lines of the Jimmuh years.
Fuck you.
maybe there is a way though - for example, you DONT go after their money with greater taxes, but you DO end the subsidies they receive. In other words, you don't punish them for doing well by taking more of their profits in taxes - but at the same time, you don't let them slide by giving them the free passes.
The US oil industry gets 5 bil a year in subsidies.
The US oil indistry pays 5.7 bil a year in fed income tax.
Since total industry profits are 30 bil a year... I don't see how leaving the taxes alone, but killing the sibsidies, would be a bad thing. Even the evil obama only wants to cut their subsidies by 2 bil a year, leaving 3 bil a year in handouts.
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I stopped reading after it became apparent you're trying to back-track. You didn't advocate ending the subsidies; you came out in favor of straight-up Soviet central planning. You are definitely no Ron Paul supporter as anyone who agrees with his economic viewpoints would never even entertain the idea of giving bureaucrats the ability to dictate a company's profits.
People like you are very dangerous to the future of this republic.
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I stopped reading after it became apparent you're trying to back-track. You didn't advocate ending the subsidies; you came out in favor of straight-up Soviet central planning. You are definitely no Ron Paul supporter as anyone who agrees with his economic viewpoints would never even entertain the idea of giving bureaucrats the ability to dictate a company's profits.
People like you are very dangerous to the future of this republic.
I like the ending "handouts to them" idea though.
If theyre making record profits, no reason to hand them tax payer money when theyre already raking in the cash..
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if you don't want to increase the taxes, that's fine. at the very least, freeze tax hikes. at the best, start lowering them to spurn new business.
But subsidies? I mean, these make no sense ot me. You have an industry making 30 BIL in profits each year - and you STILL give them 5 bil in subsidies each year?
I mean, if there's any industry that doesn't need the hookup, it's the one making the greatest profits in the history of human business.
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I like the ending "handouts to them" idea though.
If theyre making record profits, no reason to hand them tax payer money when theyre already raking in the cash..
I'd end the subsidies to them, the green energy scams and everyone else. If something is worthwhile, private money will find its way there.
But 240 wasn't advocating that. He is now but he wasn't a few posts up.
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i've relaly woken up a lot these last few months to the need to reduce taxes to us corporations - but ONLY to the companies willing to keep the jobs HERE.
I think it was santorum's plan, which he details last night, that sounded very good. APple employs 550k people, but 500k of them are in china.. bad.
so yeah, i'm for raising the taxes IF they get to keep their 5 bil in subsidies.
or lower taxes, if you take away their 5 bil subsidies. either either. you say tomato, i say tomato.
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Is what Apple makes reasonable? How about Google? Intel? GM? Ford?
What about the Airlines? Visa? Mastercard? Goldman Sacks?
This is the dumbest thing ever. And seeing as this is coming out of D.C., that's saying something.
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the idea is that apple would receive a ton of reduced tarrifs and tax breaks to bring the work here.
SUPPOSE the bush tax cuts back in 2001/2 would have ONLY applied to business INSIDE america's borders.
Would all these firms have outsourced? What would american business/mnfg look like today? what investments to domestic infrastructure would we have made? WE're building infra in china, not here.
i like this idea from santy.
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More profits for oil companies = more reinvestment into oil production = lower prices in the future
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More profits for oil companies = more reinvestment into oil production = lower prices in the future
but haven't the US firms enjoyed record profits for a decade now? even as prices soared to $4?
what the heck are they waiting for? lol are they going to 'start' reinvesting next year?
i mean, if subsidies of $5 BILLION aren't enough incentive, what is?
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but haven't the US firms enjoyed record profits for a decade now? even as prices soared to $4?
what the heck are they waiting for? lol are they going to 'start' reinvesting next year?
i mean, if subsidies of $5 BILLION aren't enough incentive, what is?
World oil production has been increasing. It's just that demand-growth has been outpacing supply-growth. If the US opened up its own domestic energy production, I bet you we'd see falling oil prices pretty soon.
World oil production:
(http://www.dani2989.com/matiere1/oil%20production%201860%202000.gif)
(http://www.oilprice.com/uploads/AC244.png)
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howard, i dont think the US will open up production.
obama won't, sure, because he's a liberal wussy, owned by greepeace, etc.
but what bout Bush? what about Bush1 and reagan? why didn't W do it?
I'm pretty sure president Mitt will also make up a reason to let the mid-east keep on ruling the roost when it comes to oil.
Cause bush did whatever the hell bush wanted, you know that... 'i dont care if only me and my dog barnie want this war, we're keeping this war..."
if he wanted domestic drilling, he woudl have had it. IMO, it's just one of those things repubs always yell about but don't really want.
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W didn't do it because he wanted higher gas prices. Anyone remember early 2000s? W increased purchase of petroleum by the SPR because he believed that oil prices were too low. People forget that W was a Big Government RINO.
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Crazy. I hate oil companies almost as much as I hate tobacco companies, but government should not be controlling profits.
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Crazy. I hate oil companies almost as much as I hate tobacco companies, but government should not be controlling profits.
I dont hate oil companies at all.
They provide me a product and service I can't provide on my own at a decent price that saves me time and effort.
Its the disgusting govt I hate who bans drilling, inflates the dollar, adds onerous regulation and blens to the mix etc.
I love exxon/mobile as compared to the thugocracy we have in DC.
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I dont hate oil companies at all.
They provide me a product and service I can't provide on my own at a decent price that saves me time and effort.
Its the disgusting govt I hate who bans drilling, inflates the dollar, adds onerous regulation and blens to the mix etc.
I love exxon/mobile as compared to the thugocracy we have in DC.
Yeah, but the Oil companies are up there. They whole "reasonable price" is BS when theyre making profits in excess of 150%. But when there is no competition, you can charge whatever the hell you want I guess.
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Yeah, but the Oil companies are up there. They whole "reasonable price" is BS when theyre making profits in excess of 150%. But when there is no competition, you can charge whatever the hell you want I guess.
And why is there no competition? Its the govt! The govt makes more per gallon of gasoline on taxes than does the company that actually has its capital and business at risk! ! !
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Crazy. I hate oil companies almost as much as I hate tobacco companies, but government should not be controlling profits.
should the govt be giing 5 billion in essentially free money (subsidies) to oil companies each year?
I mean, that's coming out of our pockets.
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should the govt be giing 5 billion in essentially free money (subsidies) to oil companies each year?
I mean, that's coming out of our pockets.
Hells fucking no, they already gouge us when we buy their products, why the hell should we just hand over our tax money to them?
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Hells fucking no, they already gouge us when we buy their products, why the hell should we just hand over our tax money to them?
See, people can somehow separate 'profits' from 'subsidies'.
It's the same thing. subsidies are handouts. It's like the govt just GIVES the oil companies 5 bil to start things off. Just for the hell of it.
Do the oil companies needs that 5 billion? judging by the fact they are able to make another $25 billion on their own, I'd say NO.
Anyone who says we should continue those subsidies is a tool. obama wants to slasm 2 of the 5 billion, and repubs are all upset. go f yourselves.
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See, people can somehow separate 'profits' from 'subsidies'.
It's the same thing. subsidies are handouts. It's like the govt just GIVES the oil companies 5 bil to start things off. Just for the hell of it.
Do the oil companies needs that 5 billion? judging by the fact they are able to make another $25 billion on their own, I'd say NO.
Anyone who says we should continue those subsidies is a tool. obama wants to slasm 2 of the 5 billion, and repubs are all upset. go f yourselves.
Get rid of the subsidies as well as the regulations banning drilling.
Deal 180?
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agreed- however - i believe NEITHER party will drill in the usa. they'll all talk about it. but it won't happen.
bush didn't. the biggest oil man, congress controlling, do what you please, Bush.
He didn't 'go there'. I dont think the mid east countries want us drilling our own. I think they tell us to hold off, and we do.
Mitt won't drill either, 33. I bet ya $1.
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Get rid of the subsidies as well as the regulations banning drilling.
Deal 180?
Id be interested to see where that went.
I just dont trust CEO's to make decisions fairly when they have a chance to make more money, even when more money wont make a damn bit of difference in their life.
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agreed- however - i believe NEITHER party will drill in the usa. they'll all talk about it. but it won't happen.
bush didn't. the biggest oil man, congress controlling, do what you please, Bush.
He didn't 'go there'. I dont think the mid east countries want us drilling our own. I think they tell us to hold off, and we do.
Mitt won't drill either, 33. I bet ya $1.
Whatever - stop kneepadding obama's disgraceful treasonous presidency.
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go
Whatever - stop kneepadding obama's disgraceful treasonous presidency.
go fuck a warm apple pie, my friend. I'm right here, and you know it. don't accuse me of bullshit after your lord bsuh didn't bother drilling either.
no prez in US history has dug up that oil... and you wanna blame obama. go fuck that pie, champ.
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go
go fuck a warm apple pie, my friend. I'm right here, and you know it. don't accuse me of bullshit after your lord bsuh didn't bother drilling either.
no prez in US history has dug up that oil... and you wanna blame obama. go fuck that pie, champ.
To be fair, from his posts he hated Bush too.
I know I did. And I voted for the man..
Twice.
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To be fair, from his posts he hated Bush too.
I know I did. And I voted for the man..
Twice.
I thought Bush 1st term was ok. His second term was a complete disaster, and Obama took that and went even further.
After 9/11 - we needed to drill drill drill, shut the border, overhaul INS and the State Dept. etc.
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I thought Bush 1st term was ok. His second term was a complete disaster, and Obama took that and went even further.
After 9/11 - we needed to drill drill drill, shut the border, overhaul INS and the State Dept. etc.
Yeah 1st term wasnt bad.
2nd term was crazy.
I think if Obama gets reelected he's gonna go full retard on us, and pull out all the stops.
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I thought Bush 1st term was ok. His second term was a complete disaster, and Obama took that and went even further.
After 9/11 - we needed to drill drill drill, shut the border, overhaul INS and the State Dept. etc.
Bush not drilling after 911 was, to me, the most telling thing.
if 3 collapsed buildings in NYC isn't reason enough to get the fck our of the middle east for oil, what is?
Remember mccain promising no more wars because of oil? Hmmmmm
Bush had every reason in the world to drill domestically. He owned congress, and probably would have gotten many dems on board with "USA brand oil, fck the mid east!"
instead, it was business as usual. And honestly guys, in 20 years, I bet we're still buying from them.
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I dont hate oil companies at all.
They provide me a product and service I can't provide on my own at a decent price that saves me time and effort.
Its the disgusting govt I hate who bans drilling, inflates the dollar, adds onerous regulation and blens to the mix etc.
I love exxon/mobile as compared to the thugocracy we have in DC.
I hate them. I feel like cussing everytime I fill up my car. >:( They have to be the only industry in the country that always has a guaranteed profit margin. Price of oil goes up, gas prices go up. Price of oil goes down, gas prices stay the same or drop a little. They don't take hits like the rest of businesses when the market changes.
Nevertheless, that doesn't mean government should step in and control the profits of a private business.
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should the govt be giing 5 billion in essentially free money (subsidies) to oil companies each year?
I mean, that's coming out of our pockets.
No, but the issue is government control of profits. Not government subsidies.
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I hate them. I feel like cussing everytime I fill up my car. >:( They have to be the only industry in the country that always has a guaranteed profit margin. Price of oil goes up, gas prices go up. Price of oil goes down, gas prices stay the same or drop a little. They don't take hits like the rest of businesses when the market changes.
Nevertheless, that doesn't mean government should step in and control the profits of a private business.
Do you hate the govt for adding endless taxes per gallon?
Do you hate the govt for banning drilling?
Do you hate the govt for devaluing the dollar w prices of oil are based upon?
Do you hate the govt for mandating varying fuel blends adding to refining costs?
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Do you hate the govt for adding endless taxes per gallon?
Do you hate the govt for banning drilling?
Do you hate the govt for devaluing the dollar w prices of oil are based upon?
Do you hate the govt for mandating varying fuel blends adding to refining costs?
Hate? Probably not. Dislike and distrust? Yes to all four questions.
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Hate? Probably not. Dislike and distrust? Yes to all four questions.
See - this is where you need to really see the light of day - the govt is the problem here - not the oil companies.
The thug govt makes more per gallon on gasoline than do the pil companies yet the communists never say a word about it.
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No, but the issue is government control of profits. Not government subsidies.
lol.... but can't we define subsidies are $5 billion free money for that company, from our tax dollars?
Any $1 you give them means they have more profits. We're jsut tacking $5 bil onto their $25 bil paychecks.
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See - this is where you need to really see the light of day - the govt is the problem here - not the oil companies.
The thug govt makes more per gallon on gasoline than do the pil companies yet the communists never say a word about it.
I don't need to see the light of day about taxes. I'm an anti-tax militant. I'm all for reducing the tax burden.
That doesn't excuse oil companies from gouging consumers and not having to ride the economy like every other business.
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I don't need to see the light of day about taxes. I'm an anti-tax militant. I'm all for reducing the tax burden.
That doesn't excuse oil companies from gouging consumers and not having to ride the economy like every other business.
If the govt makes more per gallon net than do the oil companies yet did not a damn thing to deliver it to market, who is gaoging who here?
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Please provide proof of oil companies "gouging" consumers. http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=410575.msg5878435#msg5878435 (http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=410575.msg5878435#msg5878435)
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Please provide proof of oil companies "gouging" consumers. http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=410575.msg5878435#msg5878435 (http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=410575.msg5878435#msg5878435)
Right here:
I hate them. I feel like cussing everytime I fill up my car. >:( They have to be the only industry in the country that always has a guaranteed profit margin. Price of oil goes up, gas prices go up. Price of oil goes down, gas prices stay the same or drop a little. They don't take hits like the rest of businesses when the market changes.
Nevertheless, that doesn't mean government should step in and control the profits of a private business.
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Oil prices fall and gas prices stay the same? Really?? Do you have anything else than anecdotal evidence to prove that? Because where I live (Metro Detroit), gasoline prices fluctuate all the time.
But regarding the divergence of gasoline prices and oil prices, the US government actually runs a protectionist racket for oil refineries. First of all, there have been no new oil refineries built in the US since the late 70s. Secondly, the government places tariffs on refined oil. These two policies together restrict the supply of refined oil inside the US, pushing up its price and increasing profits for the already existing oil refineries. http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=410575.msg5878430#msg5878430 (http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=410575.msg5878430#msg5878430)
So again, this is not a problem of oil companies, but of Big Government.
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And lets not forget the Fed and Tres. Department devaluing the dollar!!!
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If the govt makes more per gallon net than do the oil companies yet did not a damn thing to deliver it to market, who is gaoging who here?
Both.
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Both.
How much should the oil companies be able to profit? 5%? 10%? 15%?
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Oil prices fall and gas prices stay the same? Really?? Do you have anything else than anecdotal evidence to prove that? Because where I live (Metro Detroit), gasoline prices fluctuate all the time.
But regarding the divergence of gasoline prices and oil prices, the US government actually runs a protectionist racket for oil refineries. First of all, there have been no new oil refineries built in the US since the late 70s. Secondly, the government places tariffs on refined oil. These two policies together restrict the supply of refined oil inside the US, pushing up its price and increasing profits for the already existing oil refineries. http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=410575.msg5878430#msg5878430 (http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=410575.msg5878430#msg5878430)
So again, this is not a problem of oil companies, but of Big Government.
Gas prices fluctuate here all the time. But what I've seen countless times is gas prices rise because of "tensions in the Middle East," rise in oil prices, etc., but almost never see an in-kind reduction when tensions decrease or the price of oil drops. So what I see is a spike of 20 cents, followed by a reduction of 10 cents, spike of 15, reduction of 5, etc., usually with a new set point for "low" gas prices.
But the fact is they maintain their profit margin no matter what. What other business or industry does this? They're like a cartel.
The problem is both the industry and the government.
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How much should the oil companies be able to profit? 5%? 10%? 15%?
Whatever the market dictates.
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Gas prices fluctuate here all the time. But what I've seen countless times is gas prices rise because of "tensions in the Middle East," rise in oil prices, etc., but almost never see an in-kind reduction when tensions decrease or the price of oil drops. So what I see is a spike of 20 cents, followed by a reduction of 10 cents, spike of 15, reduction of 5, etc., usually with a new set point for "low" gas prices.
But the fact is they maintain their profit margin no matter what. What other business or industry does this? They're like a cartel.
The problem is both the industry and the government.
The problem is the devaluation of the dollar via the Fed and restrictions the govt places on both supply as well as the refinment and differeing blends.
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Whatever the market dictates.
The govt distorts the market via regulation, taxation, mandate, etc.
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Gas prices fluctuate here all the time. But what I've seen countless times is gas prices rise because of "tensions in the Middle East," rise in oil prices, etc., but almost never see an in-kind reduction when tensions decrease or the price of oil drops. So what I see is a spike of 20 cents, followed by a reduction of 10 cents, spike of 15, reduction of 5, etc., usually with a new set point for "low" gas prices.
But the fact is they maintain their profit margin no matter what. What other business or industry does this? They're like a cartel.
The problem is both the industry and the government.
This. Exactly the same thing here - "Middle east tension" causes the price to jump 40 cents - 2 weeks later when the tension eases it drops maybe 15 cents, and they proclaim gas prices are coming down. Then 2 weeks later they jump another 20 cents, due to hurricanes or whatever they can find... then it drops 5 cents after "whatever it is" is over, and the price never again will reach anywhere NEAR what it was...
Its purely greed on the part of the Oil companies. They know that when they jack up the price, all they have to do is lower it 5% and people breathe a sigh of relief thinking "Well its coming back down" but it never really comes back down.
The fact they say this and show profits so outrageous proves the fact they are gouging.
The problem is 2 things - lack of competition, and governmental regulations.
Free market rules dont apply when there is no competition.
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This. Exactly the same thing here - "Middle east tension" causes the price to jump 40 cents - 2 weeks later when the tension eases it drops maybe 15 cents, and they proclaim gas prices are coming down. Then 2 weeks later they jump another 20 cents, due to hurricanes or whatever they can find... then it drops 5 cents after "whatever it is" is over, and the price never again will reach anywhere NEAR what it was...
Its purely greed on the part of the Oil companies. They know that when they jack up the price, all they have to do is lower it 5% and people breathe a sigh of relief thinking "Well its coming back down" but it never really comes back down.
The fact they say this and show profits so outrageous proves the fact they are gouging.
The problem is 2 things - lack of competition, and governmental regulations.
Free market rules dont apply when there is no competition.
Agree.