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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: the trainer on January 26, 2012, 08:58:35 AM
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There are two types of bodybuilder, one you believes that you should take your sets to complete failure where your muscles are burnt and you cannot do another rep that is how you build muscle.
Then you have the bodybuilder who believes that you should not take all sets to complete failure, because once you feel a burn in the muscle that is enough and beyond that could lead to injury and over training what do you believe what is your training style.
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There are two types of bodybuilder, one you believes that you should take your sets to complete failure where your muscles are burnt and you cannot do another rep that is how you build muscle.
Then you have the bodybuilder who believes that you should not take all sets to complete failure, because once you feel a burn in the muscle that is enough and beyond that could lead to injury and over training what do you believe what is your training style.
Come again? ???
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There are two types of bodybuilder, one you believes that you should take your sets to complete failure where your muscles are burnt and you cannot do another rep that is how you build muscle.
Then you have the bodybuilder who believes that you should not take all sets to complete failure, because once you feel a burn in the muscle that is enough and beyond that could lead to injury and over training what do you believe what is your training style.
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homo?
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Let's save this thread by having people post the rep range they generally use for upper body and then the rep range they use for lower body.
Begin.
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Come again? ???
Bodybuilders like Sergio oliva believed in the pump so he would do like 20 sets for biceps not to complete failure but focusing on the pump. then you will have other bodybuilders who do each set to complete failure meaning on the last set they struggle to do the last rep and the muscle is completely exhausted.
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homo?
No homo, but if you are looking for homo I can hook you up with big john the hairy bear i am sure he will take care of you.
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Let's save this thread by having people post the rep range they generally use for upper body and then the rep range they use for lower body.
Begin.
Rep range for lower body is one giant set until i cum in a wastebasket
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i go to failure every time with your mom
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going to failure is associated with CNS fatigue, so giving up the last rep makes sense. Especially if you train high volume.
But I dunno if the CNS thing really is true.
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???
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i go to failure every time with your mom
Indeed you do go to failure, you fail to take a shower, you fail to brush your teeth and you fail to get an erection, I would say jump in front of a bus but you would fail that also.
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till--falure--o--the--last--set
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when i first started lifting i trained 7 days per week, 20-40 sets per body part, to failur on every single set. 8-12 rep range.
worked real good for a year and a half or so, after that i made zero gains. would get great pumps, never any forward progress though.
started using gear about 2 years later, made some good progress. after about 6 months on gear, stopped making progress.
changed my training style a year ago to sub failure and lots of rest in between sets. started making progress again.
stopped making progress about 4 months ago. started focusing more on contracting the muscles instead of just feeling them. dropped the weight. still sub failure and still lots of rest between sets. making progress again.
rep range upper bdoy usually about 10 reps. lower body about 15 reps. total colume these days never more than 10 sets for a body part. smaller muscles sometimes just 2 or 3 sets total.
training schedule = every other day. body broken up into two workouts, so everything gets hit every 4th day.
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another gym hero training to failoure
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I go to failure. It wipes me. I leave the gym looking like tired and drawn, like a fucking corpse.
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Non failure is the shit. Never feel weak, never feel sore, always strong!
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Non failure is the shit. Never feel weak, never feel sore, always strong!
it is obvious the strongest guys in the world tend to avoid failure training but who know for muscle growth I doubt it matters for the most part.
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Depends on whether you are natty or not...when I was natural I would cycle my training intensity religiously, always trying to walk the edge between overtraining and growing, it's almost impossible to do..and you have to learn to cut back on your intensity every now and again or you will overtrain. I would always tell people "your enthusiasm outstrips your ability to recover" you have to know when to say "enough" because any trainer worth his salt can bang the weights until he's utterly destroyed...but there's no way in hell you recover from that naturally.
On drugs....different "sport" entirely. The only similarity between training naturally and training "on" is that you use the same weights. Training on gear is simple chemistry...I know now..300mgs. of tren ace a week = 230 lean. if I want to get bigger, I will have to take more drugs...it doesn't matter how I train...assuming you're not a bitch and you work out hard. It's the way it is.
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If you can do 10+ reps your are not lifting enough weight. They more reps you do the more you tax the cardio system and not the muscle. Yes you can grow muscle on using light weights and high reps but you will get there quicker in my opinion if you push higher weight (in good form) over higher reps aslong as the rep range is not stupidly low (1-2) most of the time.
Im my opinion you should lift 2-4 sets depending on how much intensity you can deliver from each set onto the given muscle/muscle group. You should do the given weight until failure, once you can do say 7-10 reps for 3-4 sets you need to increase the weight. Works a treat, you get strong quickly and add size quickly.
The most important thing to remember is every time you enter the gym and trainin a given body part/group you should be lifting either more weight or increasing the reps from the previous session every time, if you cannot you are either not resting enough or not eating enough 90% of the time. It does not matter if the increase is only 1 rep or 1lb, you are improving every time, getting stronger and eventually you will grow bigger
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Depends on whether you are natty or not...when I was natural I would cycle my training intensity religiously, always trying to walk the edge between overtraining and growing, it's almost impossible to do..and you have to learn to cut back on your intensity every now and again or you will overtrain. I would always tell people "your enthusiasm outstrips your ability to recover" you have to know when to say "enough" because any trainer worth his salt can bang the weights until he's utterly destroyed...but there's no way in hell you recover from that naturally.
On drugs....different "sport" entirely. The only similarity between training naturally and training "on" is that you use the same weights. Training on gear is simple chemistry...I know now..300mgs. of tren ace a week = 230 lean. if I want to get bigger, I will have to take more drugs...it doesn't matter how I train...assuming you're not a bitch and you work out hard. It's the way it is.
Good post!
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if I want to get bigger, I will have to take more drugs...it doesn't matter how I train...assuming you're not a bitch and you work out hard. It's the way it is.
Yup!! 8)
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The most important thing to remember is every time you enter the gym and trainin a given body part/group you should be lifting either more weight or increasing the reps from the previous session every time, if you cannot you are either not resting enough or not eating enough 90% of the time. It does not matter if the increase is only 1 rep or 1lb, you are improving every time, getting stronger and eventually you will grow bigger
bullshit. this is not gonna happen after you have been training a while and it's the same old HIT crap. No one makes increases in a linear fashion from workout to workout unless they are total noobs. you should definately drive up strength as a natural as progressive tension overload is the no 1 driver for muscle growth but no one makes strength gains every workout.
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One thing I`ll add is that in these discussions nobody ever agrees entirely on what`s the best way to train.
Simple solution is to just do what works for you and to always keep an open mind about trying new things.
Some respond best to heavier weight,lower reps,with long breaks in between sets,others,the exact opposite.
Periodization is a smart thing to use as a training tool whether enhanced or natural...........you can`t always go full bore all the time.
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bullshit. this is not gonna happen after you have been training a while and it's the same old HIT crap. No one makes increases in a linear fashion from workout to workout unless they are total noobs. you should definately drive up strength as a natural as progressive tension overload is the no 1 driver for muscle growth but no one makes strength gains every workout.
Agreed!
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Going to failure is a tool to be used. It shouldn't be the basis of your routine. I think teens and trainers in their early twenties should really push the failure envelope. But as someone else posted an experienced trainer can't make strength gains in a linear fashion. After training for 10, 20, or 30 years or more are you still trying for personal bests every training cycle?
If you truly went to failure you wouldn't be able to do a second set anywhere near the first set. If you took a weight and truly failed at 10 reps there should be no way you could get another 10 reps. The problem is many slacker trainers think they went to failure and then they can do the second set again at 10 reps.
Power lifters and Olympic lifters don't train to failure. At the end of their cycle maybe but there is no way they are hitting failure every training session. If the strongest lifters are not going to failure all the time they train why should bodybuilders?
I think a better method is volume. Say you do 5 sets of 8 reps of curls. The first four sets you do 8 reps and the fifth you fail at 6 reps. That is a failure method where training to failure is a tool.
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Good post !!
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Going to failure is a tool to be used. It shouldn't be the basis of your routine. I think teens and trainers in their early twenties should really push the failure envelope. But as someone else posted an experienced trainer can't make strength gains in a linear fashion. After training for 10, 20, or 30 years or more are you still trying for personal bests every training cycle?
If you truly went to failure you wouldn't be able to do a second set anywhere near the first set. If you took a weight and truly failed at 10 reps there should be no way you could get another 10 reps. The problem is many slacker trainers think they went to failure and then they can do the second set again at 10 reps.
Power lifters and Olympic lifters don't train to failure. At the end of their cycle maybe but there is no way they are hitting failure every training session. If the strongest lifters are not going to failure all the time they train why should bodybuilders?
I think a better method is volume. Say you do 5 sets of 8 reps of curls. The first four sets you do 8 reps and the fifth you fail at 6 reps. That is a failure method where training to failure is a tool.
I always do that woks well for me bigger muscle group i do 12 first set, decreasing to 10,8 then 6 to failure and get good results from that, small group i do 10,8,6 not always to failure no big weight slow movements very good form i look weak in the gym but strong with my shit off ;)
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Quarterly upright rows is my only work out and I'm a massive gym beast you do the math
what kinda poundages were you throwin up last workout BDB?
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Not a bber but I go to failure on everything. I adjust the weights so I fail on a predetermine rep.
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I fail on the first rep.
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bullshit. this is not gonna happen after you have been training a while and it's the same old HIT crap. No one makes increases in a linear fashion from workout to workout unless they are total noobs. you should definately drive up strength as a natural as progressive tension overload is the no 1 driver for muscle growth but no one makes strength gains every workout.
I never stop increasing either poundage or reps, the only time it decreases is if I where to come off the gear for a break or diet heavily. If you stagnate, from the previous session and only achieve the same as last time which does happen from time to time, take a few days off and eat some high calorie food. You might only increase 1 rep in you entire workout, or achieve 1/2lb more but you always come back stronger with gear in the blood, a solid diet and regular rest. I cannot generate the intensity to get this to work from only 1 set like many HIT advokate, so I tend to do 3-4 sets where I will start at a weight that allows me to do 4-6 reps (It would look something like this at the start Set 1 = 6 Reps, Set 2 = 5 Reps, Set 3 = 4 Reps, Set 4 = 4 Reps) and when I come in next time I would be increasing the reps. Sometimes this may mean just one extra rep on the 1st of 2nd set, others it may be several reps. It depends on the day and what is in the blood.
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if your even somewhat advanced going to true failure is a very dangerous thing you. If you took pro bodybuilders and put them on training like dc or hit advocates they would be dropping like flies.
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if your even somewhat advanced going to true failure is a very dangerous thing you. If you took pro bodybuilders and put them on training like dc or hit advocates they would be dropping like flies.
I agree watching Branch and Co train
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. You defiitely dont need to lift heavy weights or go to failure to get bigger stronger. My incline has gone up nearly 50 pounds in the past year, and not one time during the entire year did I ever have more than 225 on the bar or did I go to failure on any excercise. Training means shit food and drugs are all that matters. I dont know why guys downplay food so much on this board (tbombz..cough) claiming you can eat 1 meal a day and grow lol ::) Well I tried it, for a while I would eat like 2000 calories/ 30 grams of carbs a day on test and anadrol and figured I was a "poor responder" cause I didn't gain weight like I hoped for..as I was living by myself and didn't want to waste my money on food for gear. ...I dirtired up the diet and starting picking me up 5 guys every night :D, bench went up like 75 pounds and weight shot up in 6 months....the beef they put in those burgers is anabolic, probably has tren in it;) Take a look at the guys who eat those things when you come to the south, all very big redneck fellas 250 country boys.
Besides training to failure fries your CNS and you feel like shit within a few weeks. For me.. insomia, lethargy, strength loss, loss of sex drive...anyone else get this? some guys just have a better CNS and can recover better, can get away with training 6 days a week. I feel like shit if I train more than 3 days a week I always get overtrained...
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There's myriad of ways to train and grow. The first question that I think need to be asked is if a trainer is on gear or not. If the answer is no then the second question should be about nutrition. After that I would begin to wonder about training to failure and over training.
As someone who has never used gear I do subscribe to a lower volume/higher intensity style of training. As of late I've had to adjust my training away from that style and still have found some success because I know my body and my nutrition. The folks I've known who used gear didn't have to worry as much about those two things to find some success.
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I fail on the first rep.
lol
I was waiting for someone to say this ;)
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imo too much over thinking about this topic :-\
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Most people are already a failure so I would cut back on over the top intensity.
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People who ramp weight up fast in their workouts and start doing sets of like 4 quick and dirty are complete pussies. The real way to train is to set your muscles on fire. Moderate-heavy ish weight for sets of 20. If you do enough sets like this, you will feel like giving up WAY, WAY more than if you were just trying to be a hero, throwing on a bunch of weight for like 7 reps.
Reps. This is where training gets difficult.
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I fail before I even start the workout lately :(
But anyway: I don't go to failure on all sets because I don't like it and I want to enjoy the training..
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The advantage of intensity failure training is that you can do less sets and get out of the gym quicker.
The advantage of doing more sets and not going to complete failure is since you are doing more sets you can hit the muscles from different angles, so at the end of the day it comes down to personal preferences.
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Depends on whether you are natty or not...when I was natural I would cycle my training intensity religiously, always trying to walk the edge between overtraining and growing, it's almost impossible to do..and you have to learn to cut back on your intensity every now and again or you will overtrain. I would always tell people "your enthusiasm outstrips your ability to recover" you have to know when to say "enough" because any trainer worth his salt can bang the weights until he's utterly destroyed...but there's no way in hell you recover from that naturally.
On drugs....different "sport" entirely. The only similarity between training naturally and training "on" is that you use the same weights. Training on gear is simple chemistry...I know now..300mgs. of tren ace a week = 230 lean. if I want to get bigger, I will have to take more drugs...it doesn't matter how I train...assuming you're not a bitch and you work out hard. It's the way it is.
never thought I would learn something from a Groink's post 8) Coach Wes and Groink are the most knowladgable guys on the board for training they have the most years under their belt...more so than gh15 because he used hormones his whole life since teenager. groink trained years naturally so he knows both worlds!
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The advantage of intensity failure training is that you can do less sets and get out of the gym quicker.
The advantage of doing more sets and not going to complete failure is since you are doing more sets you can hit the muscles from different angles, so at the end of the day it comes down to personal preferences.
True!
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. You defiitely dont need to lift heavy weights or go to failure to get bigger stronger. My incline has gone up nearly 50 pounds in the past year, and not one time during the entire year did I ever have more than 225 on the bar or did I go to failure on any excercise. Training means shit food and drugs are all that matters. I dont know why guys downplay food so much on this board (tbombz..cough) claiming you can eat 1 meal a day and grow lol ::) Well I tried it, for a while I would eat like 2000 calories/ 30 grams of carbs a day on test and anadrol and figured I was a "poor responder" cause I didn't gain weight like I hoped for..as I was living by myself and didn't want to waste my money on food for gear. ...I dirtired up the diet and starting picking me up 5 guys every night :D, bench went up like 75 pounds and weight shot up in 6 months....the beef they put in those burgers is anabolic, probably has tren in it;) Take a look at the guys who eat those things when you come to the south, all very big redneck fellas 250 country boys.
Besides training to failure fries your CNS and you feel like shit within a few weeks. For me.. insomia, lethargy, strength loss, loss of sex drive...anyone else get this? some guys just have a better CNS and can recover better, can get away with training 6 days a week. I feel like shit if I train more than 3 days a week I always get overtrained...
i never said you can eat likea bird and grow, if you only eat one meal per day it better include a couple pounds of meat and a boatload of carbs and fats. literally. not a 12 ounce steak, not a 16 ounce steak, but like 40 ounces of meat. ive always said you need about a gram of protein per lb of lean body weight. and ive never downplayed the importance of calories. some sedentary people might be able to get by on 2500 cals and grow, but most people need 3000 or more. the amount of mmeals per day really doesnt matter. meat digests so very slowly, if you ate all of it one meal it would take over a day to digest anyways.
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never thought I would learn something from a Groink's post 8) Coach Wes and Groink are the most knowladgable guys on the board for training they have the most years under their belt...more so than gh15 because he used hormones his whole life since teenager. groink trained years naturally so he knows both worlds!
Thanks bro,but are you insinuating that me,Groink,and Coach are old ???
;D
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People are still so clueless. ;D
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People who ramp weight up fast in their workouts and start doing sets of like 4 quick and dirty are complete pussies. The real way to train is to set your muscles on fire. Moderate-heavy ish weight for sets of 20. If you do enough sets like this, you will feel like giving up WAY, WAY more than if you were just trying to be a hero, throwing on a bunch of weight for like 7 reps.
Reps. This is where training gets difficult.
Bollocks, the burn has nothing to do with muscle growth stimulation. Run on a treadmill for 60 mins and your calfs will burn, do they grow...no they do not, actually they will prob shrink!
Go back to basics and understand what a muscle does..it moves a joint or series of joints and causes movement. That muscles is only as big or as strong as it needs to be to do the job. You increase the propeties of its day to day task such as increasing resistance that it requires to do this and is must adapt. It may grow denser by increasing more fibres but eventually in must grow in size to account for the large loads it must lift on a regular basis.
You can stimulate muscle in many ways but lets face it, you who advise higher reps and less weight are juiced up to the gills and train often, more often than you could recover under normal recovery situations. The drugs are doing the work...
What I am saying is I do not say this way does not work, I am saying that if you actually pushed yourself and trained harder you would achieve these results in less time and increasing weight or reps every time from the previous session is the most accurate way under normal training conditions to achieve this..
Did I lift more or the same for more..YES..did my body adapt to do this...YES...eventually will this lead to increased muscle/bone/tendon size..YES
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I go to failure but i do not lift as heavy as i used to. I go a bit lighter and very controlled but go until i can't do any more.
It works but i'm not picking up heavy weights. I'm going through the movements with all the focus on the muscle not the joints. I look much better doing this, too heavy and i was looking worse.
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I go to failure but i do not lift as heavy as i used to. I go a bit lighter and very controlled but go until i can't do any more.
It works but i'm not picking up heavy weights. I'm going through the movements with all the focus on the muscle not the joints. I look much better doing this, too heavy and i was looking worse.
BINGO
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the hardest thing people have a hard time letting go is that super heavy weight isn't the best way to train for muscular growth
you learn this with time.
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the hardest thing people have a hard time letting go is that super heavy weight isn't the best way to train for muscular growth
you learn this with time.
X1000000
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Bodybuilders like Sergio oliva believed in the pump so he would do like 20 sets for biceps not to complete failure but focusing on the pump. then you will have other bodybuilders who do each set to complete failure meaning on the last set they struggle to do the last rep and the muscle is completely exhausted.
throw down 5 or 10 anadrol or 20 dbol tabs at a time like Sergio, and "the Pump" brings on a whole new meaning. Than add pain killers into the mix and WTF becomes the norm :-\
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throw down 5 or 10 anadrol or 20 dbol tabs at a time like Sergio, and "the Pump" brings on a whole new meaning. Than add pain killers into the mix and WTF becomes the norm :-\
;D
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another gym hero training to failoure
looks like Juan Morel's squat form.
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Bollocks, the burn has nothing to do with muscle growth stimulation. Run on a treadmill for 60 mins and your calfs will burn, do they grow...no they do not, actually they will prob shrink!
Go back to basics and understand what a muscle does..it moves a joint or series of joints and causes movement. That muscles is only as big or as strong as it needs to be to do the job. You increase the propeties of its day to day task such as increasing resistance that it requires to do this and is must adapt. It may grow denser by increasing more fibres but eventually in must grow in size to account for the large loads it must lift on a regular basis.
You can stimulate muscle in many ways but lets face it, you who advise higher reps and less weight are juiced up to the gills and train often, more often than you could recover under normal recovery situations. The drugs are doing the work...
What I am saying is I do not say this way does not work, I am saying that if you actually pushed yourself and trained harder you would achieve these results in less time and increasing weight or reps every time from the previous session is the most accurate way under normal training conditions to achieve this..
Did I lift more or the same for more..YES..did my body adapt to do this...YES...eventually will this lead to increased muscle/bone/tendon size..YES
when your on juice the body just responds differently. what works best as a natural isnt necessarily going to be the best on sauce. also, as you get bigger, your body isnt able to handle as much damage. focusing on form, squeezing the muscle, varying the rep ranges, doing slow negatives ... these are important on juice. not how much you lift. at least, thats my experience.
on the issue about calf growth from running on a tredmill. the biggest calfs ive ever seen have been on football players and sprinters. check out the quads and hammies on some pro athletes dude, even just endurance athletes. theres something to be said for high rep training when it comes to the lower body.
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the hardest thing people have a hard time letting go is that super heavy weight isn't the best way to train for muscular growth
you learn this with time.
Yes, but the problem is when you start going heavy is what works. When you get stronger you need to learn to back off a bit. It's hard to do mentally until you know it's the best way.
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There are two types of bodybuilder, one you believes that you should take your sets to complete failure where your muscles are burnt and you cannot do another rep that is how you build muscle.
Then you have the bodybuilder who believes that you should not take all sets to complete failure, because once you feel a burn in the muscle that is enough and beyond that could lead to injury and over training what do you believe what is your training style.
For myself at least to go to failure on the main set of every exercise.
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Upper Body: For me, I always do a warm-up set 15 reps average with approx. 70% of my current maximum "working set" weight, then working up to the max. weights which I'll do about 3 sets of 10 reps with. After this, depending on energy level- I'll do "descending sets" using 5lb less each time (or 10lb IF I'm in a hurry) and just burn the muscle group until you could literally melt butter on it... always striving for at least 8 to 10 reps on each set!!
Lower Body: For Quads, Hams, Calves, a warm up set again with 70% of max, this time doing 20 reps, increasing weight each set keeping 15 reps as an average. 2 to 3 sets of 15 reps with MAX WEIGHT as the "Working Sets". NO DESCENDING SETS for lower body, the weights being much heavier than upper body sufficient for stimulation.
*** Exception to all this is ABS, I prefer sets of 50 reps, 5 to 7 sets- 2 different exercises SUPER-SETTED.