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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: musclecenter on February 11, 2012, 05:58:52 AM

Title: Phil Heath dumbbell & barbell rows instruction (2012-02-06)
Post by: musclecenter on February 11, 2012, 05:58:52 AM
Title: Re: Phil Heath dumbbell & barbell rows instruction (2012-02-06)
Post by: WOOO on February 11, 2012, 06:07:17 AM
arms are fucking insane
Title: Re: Phil Heath dumbbell & barbell rows instruction (2012-02-06)
Post by: Julio Ceasar on February 11, 2012, 06:15:25 AM
Underhand barbell row will give u better sweap on your lats...that thing was new. : )

Do they belive in that shit self to??
Title: Re: Phil Heath dumbbell & barbell rows instruction (2012-02-06)
Post by: Cutlet767 on February 11, 2012, 06:28:58 AM
Always, ALWAYS looks high as a kite.
Title: Re: Phil Heath dumbbell & barbell rows instruction (2012-02-06)
Post by: Hulkotron on February 11, 2012, 07:35:12 AM
What will happen if I do 4 or 9 repetitions?
Title: Re: Phil Heath dumbbell & barbell rows instruction (2012-02-06)
Post by: purenaturalstrength on February 11, 2012, 07:38:05 AM
if philip had those muscles on this skeleton

(http://i.imgur.com/S0wfQ.jpg)
Title: Re: Phil Heath dumbbell & barbell rows instruction (2012-02-06)
Post by: mesmorph78 on February 11, 2012, 07:40:41 AM
Good poits made by heath....
I prefer the overhad brbell row to the underhand version though
Title: Re: Phil Heath dumbbell & barbell rows instruction (2012-02-06)
Post by: Metabolic on February 11, 2012, 07:48:08 AM
"Lower lats"
Title: Re: Phil Heath dumbbell & barbell rows instruction (2012-02-06)
Post by: DroppingPlates on February 11, 2012, 09:45:46 AM
Good poits made by heath....
I prefer the overhad brbell row to the underhand version though

Me too, you have a stronger grip and when you keep your elbows close to the lats, the difference in activation of lower part of the lats is negligible, compared with the underhand version.
Title: Re: Phil Heath dumbbell & barbell rows instruction (2012-02-06)
Post by: DroppingPlates on February 11, 2012, 09:48:26 AM
"Lower lats"

LOL, yeah anatomically they don't exist, just like the "inner chest". Trainer's broscience at his best  ::)
Title: Re: Phil Heath dumbbell & barbell rows instruction (2012-02-06)
Post by: Tito24 on February 11, 2012, 09:51:26 AM
synthol
Title: Re: Phil Heath dumbbell & barbell rows instruction (2012-02-06)
Post by: Parker on February 11, 2012, 10:41:22 AM
Good poits made by heath....
I prefer the overhad brbell row to the underhand version though
If you take a lok at pics of him from 2006 vs today, you'd see that he has added a lot of thickness back there.
Title: Re: Phil Heath dumbbell & barbell rows instruction (2012-02-06)
Post by: tbombz on February 11, 2012, 01:51:23 PM
Dead wrong on the barbell rows. 45 to 60 degree angle hits Lats best
Title: Re: Phil Heath dumbbell & barbell rows instruction (2012-02-06)
Post by: Parker on February 11, 2012, 02:11:38 PM
Dead wrong on the barbell rows. 45 to 60 degree angle hits Lats best
Uh, T, take a look at his lats...then yours...then his again, take a look at him from 2005 on up.
take a look at his vids.

What may work better for you, may not work better for him---but then again, he's on a ton of shit, so what ever work him.
Title: Re: Phil Heath dumbbell & barbell rows instruction (2012-02-06)
Post by: purenaturalstrength on February 11, 2012, 02:20:34 PM
Dead wrong on the barbell rows. 45 to 60 degree angle hits Lats best
that sounds like bro science friend

the only thing the lats do is pull the upper arm to the torso


the more upright, the lower the range of motion
Title: Re: Phil Heath dumbbell & barbell rows instruction (2012-02-06)
Post by: DroppingPlates on February 11, 2012, 02:46:47 PM
that sounds like bro science friend

the only thing the lats do is pull the upper arm to the torso


the more upright, the lower the range of motion


That's the big mistake many people make. They make it rather look like a shrug, than a row movement.
Title: Re: Phil Heath dumbbell & barbell rows instruction (2012-02-06)
Post by: purenaturalstrength on February 11, 2012, 02:52:08 PM
That's the big mistake many people make. They make it rather look like a shrug, than a row movement.

they just swing it by cheating and getting more upright even, then bringing their torso to the barbell when it's coming up

lol
Title: Re: Phil Heath dumbbell & barbell rows instruction (2012-02-06)
Post by: tbombz on February 11, 2012, 03:42:08 PM
Uh, T, take a look at his lats...then yours...then his again, take a look at him from 2005 on up.
take a look at his vids.

What may work better for you, may not work better for him---but then again, he's on a ton of shit, so what ever work him.
drugs and genetic response to drugs...    This pure biomechanics.. Lays engage more strongly during rows when at a 45 degree angle.. Going down to closer to 90 disengages oats and puts more focus on upper back muscles... 


that sounds like bro science friend

the only thing the lats do is pull the upper arm to the torso


the more upright, the lower the range of motion

no, this is basic anatomy. Yes, less range of motion, but more focus on lats. Upper back and lats are two different things. When leaned over to 90 you aren't hitting lats your making it an upper back movement.



http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/lifestyles/2010-md-spring-seminar/2663-gaspari-nutrition-presents-the-md-seminar-dorian-yates-backtraining.html


Title: Re: Phil Heath dumbbell & barbell rows instruction (2012-02-06)
Post by: che on February 11, 2012, 03:53:37 PM


I do my barbell rows on a bench.

(http://legendstrengthperformance.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/barbell-row-bench2.jpg?w=450&h=270)
Title: Re: Phil Heath dumbbell & barbell rows instruction (2012-02-06)
Post by: PJim on February 11, 2012, 04:55:41 PM
drugs and genetic response to drugs...    This pure biomechanics.. Lays engage more strongly during rows when at a 45 degree angle.. Going down to closer to 90 disengages oats and puts more focus on upper back muscles... 

 no, this is basic anatomy. Yes, less range of motion, but more focus on lats. Upper back and lats are two different things. When leaned over to 90 you aren't hitting lats your making it an upper back movement.



http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/lifestyles/2010-md-spring-seminar/2663-gaspari-nutrition-presents-the-md-seminar-dorian-yates-backtraining.html




One of the few things I agree with you on.
Title: Re: Phil Heath dumbbell & barbell rows instruction (2012-02-06)
Post by: chess315 on February 11, 2012, 06:49:12 PM
I like underhanded better just hard to strap into so mostly do overhand :/
Title: Re: Phil Heath dumbbell & barbell rows instruction (2012-02-06)
Post by: Stavios on February 11, 2012, 06:54:09 PM

I do my barbell rows on a bench.

(http://legendstrengthperformance.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/barbell-row-bench2.jpg?w=450&h=270)

I fuck your mom on a bench
Title: Re: Phil Heath dumbbell & barbell rows instruction (2012-02-06)
Post by: che on February 11, 2012, 06:57:02 PM
I fuck your mom on a bench
I thought we were friends
Title: Re: Phil Heath dumbbell & barbell rows instruction (2012-02-06)
Post by: aesthetics on February 11, 2012, 06:58:59 PM
Dead wrong on the barbell rows. 45 to 60 degree angle hits Lats best

it's impossible to be at a 90 degree angle if you are moving any kind of weight with the barbell but i think 90 degree for 1 hand dumb bell works best for the lats. you just have to have a mind-muscle concentration on how you are moving your arms, pulling the elbows back and up while contracting the lats as opposed to just trying to lift the weight "up" - that works the best for hitting lats in my opinion
Title: Re: Phil Heath dumbbell & barbell rows instruction (2012-02-06)
Post by: Stavios on February 11, 2012, 07:03:20 PM
I thought we were friends

we are more than friends

we are brothers

brothers of cock
Title: Re: Phil Heath dumbbell & barbell rows instruction (2012-02-06)
Post by: DroppingPlates on February 11, 2012, 07:20:04 PM

I do my barbell rows on a bench.

(http://legendstrengthperformance.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/barbell-row-bench2.jpg?w=450&h=270)

Here, we need to put a normal bench on two step platforms. It looks primitive, but it does the job
Title: Re: Phil Heath dumbbell & barbell rows instruction (2012-02-06)
Post by: purenaturalstrength on February 12, 2012, 02:12:37 AM
drugs and genetic response to drugs...    This pure biomechanics.. Lays engage more strongly during rows when at a 45 degree angle.. Going down to closer to 90 disengages oats and puts more focus on upper back muscles... 

 no, this is basic anatomy. Yes, less range of motion, but more focus on lats. Upper back and lats are two different things. When leaned over to 90 you aren't hitting lats your making it an upper back movement.



http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/lifestyles/2010-md-spring-seminar/2663-gaspari-nutrition-presents-the-md-seminar-dorian-yates-backtraining.html




dorian yates is not proof

not that i dont believe i can be wrong, i would just like to see some evidence other than a pro claiming this and that
Title: Re: Phil Heath dumbbell & barbell rows instruction (2012-02-06)
Post by: kyomu on February 12, 2012, 02:17:25 AM
He doesnt look like a O in gym AT ALL.
Title: Re: Phil Heath dumbbell & barbell rows instruction (2012-02-06)
Post by: DroppingPlates on February 12, 2012, 02:53:35 AM
This douche/gym clown calls himself "Big Lou"  ::) (the real Lou should kick his ass for that)
Check his barbell rows shrugs  :-\
 
Title: Re: Phil Heath dumbbell & barbell rows instruction (2012-02-06)
Post by: aesthetics on February 12, 2012, 03:06:06 AM
yate's rows  :)
Title: Re: Phil Heath dumbbell & barbell rows instruction (2012-02-06)
Post by: oldnik on February 12, 2012, 06:22:15 AM
Yates Row to an insane back
Title: Re: Phil Heath dumbbell & barbell rows instruction (2012-02-06)
Post by: PJim on February 12, 2012, 06:28:46 AM
dorian yates is not proof

not that i dont believe i can be wrong, i would just like to see some evidence other than a pro claiming this and that

Anatomically speaking he is bang on from my studies at University. It puts you in a mechanically stronger position where you've got the added benefit of balance. For the lats to engage your spine needs to be arched, if you were at 90 degrees as Heath said you'd be asking for trouble trying to create that curvature whilst at that angle.
Title: Re: Phil Heath dumbbell & barbell rows instruction (2012-02-06)
Post by: Metabolic on February 12, 2012, 06:32:01 AM
Anatomically speaking he is bang on from my studies at University. It puts you in a mechanically stronger position where you've got the added benefit of balance. For the lats to engage your spine needs to be arched, if you were at 90 degrees as Heath said you're asking for trouble trying to create that curvature whilst at that angle.
"It puts you in a mechanically stronger position where you've got the added benefit of balance"

This much is true, still, following that line of thought the best row is a cable row.
Title: Re: Phil Heath dumbbell & barbell rows instruction (2012-02-06)
Post by: PJim on February 12, 2012, 06:42:08 AM
"It puts you in a mechanically stronger position where you've got the added benefit of balance"

This much is true, still, following that line of thought the best row is a cable row.

Cable rows are good but I find that they would work rhomboids and traps due to the nature of the movement. If you really want to work lats like Heath suggests, nothing beats a good pre-exhaust with a set of pullovers driving with the elbows straight into palms up pulldowns.
Title: Re: Phil Heath dumbbell & barbell rows instruction (2012-02-06)
Post by: Metabolic on February 12, 2012, 06:56:21 AM
Cable rows are good but I find that they would work rhomboids and traps due to the nature of the movement. If you really want to work lats like Heath suggests, nothing beats a good pre-exhaust with a set of pullovers driving with the elbows straight into palms up pulldowns.

I concurr, no elbow flexion (ie, pullovers) is the best, but, when speaking of rows, the most advantageous position is a cable or machine row as you have no need for stabilization from your lower body, which again, may or may not be what you want, for our purposes it mostly is.

"they would work rhomboids and traps due to the nature of the movement"

The nature of the movement is the same, unless we understand different things from cable rows.
Title: Re: Phil Heath dumbbell & barbell rows instruction (2012-02-06)
Post by: PJim on February 12, 2012, 07:10:58 AM
I concurr, no elbow flexion (ie, pullovers) is the best, but, when speaking of rows, the most advantageous position is a cable or machine row as you have no need for stabilization from your lower body, which again, may or may not be what you want, for our purposes it mostly is.

"they would work rhomboids and traps due to the nature of the movement"

The nature of the movement is the same, unless we understand different things from cable rows.

It depends on what type of row you are doing. Are we talking one with a chest-pad which restricts the weight pulling your torso forward or a more free row? Are you rowing to the chest like a standard row or are you rowing to the stomach? I find that there are benefits to both but never seem to gain a peak contraction in my lats like I would on pulldown movements.
Title: Re: Phil Heath dumbbell & barbell rows instruction (2012-02-06)
Post by: Metabolic on February 12, 2012, 07:14:54 AM
It depends on what type of row you are doing. Are we talking one with a chest-pad which restricts the weight pulling your torso forward or a more free row? Are you rowing to the chest like a standard row or are you rowing to the stomach? I find that there are benefits to both but never seem to gain a peak contraction in my lats like I would on pulldown movements.

Well, rows are not a Lat targetted movement, they are a general back exercise, so we agree on that too.  Pulldowns will be better engaging lats. 

I am talking about cable rows, not the padded machine, rowing it the exact same way as I would a barbell just seated.
Title: Re: Phil Heath dumbbell & barbell rows instruction (2012-02-06)
Post by: PJim on February 12, 2012, 07:16:46 AM
Well, rows are not a Lat targetted movement, they are a general back exercise, so we agree on that too.  Pulldowns will be better engaging lats. 

I am talking about cable rows, not the padded machine, rowing it the exact same way as I would a barbell just seated.

Funnily enough I normally end a back workout with the cable rows that Dorian suggested with the long bar keeping the elbows high.
Title: Re: Phil Heath dumbbell & barbell rows instruction (2012-02-06)
Post by: mesmorph78 on February 12, 2012, 08:01:01 AM
there is no such thing Yates row
dorian was genetically blessed in regard to back.....
if that was another guy or pro doing rows almost standing up...straight up he would be ridiculed
but as usual people are sheep
Title: Re: Phil Heath dumbbell & barbell rows instruction (2012-02-06)
Post by: che on February 12, 2012, 08:18:32 AM
there is no such thing Yates row
dorian was genetically blessed in regard to back.....
if that was another guy or pro doing rows almost standing up...straight up he would be ridiculed
but as usual people are sheep

I have to agree with my friend M78.
Title: Re: Phil Heath dumbbell & barbell rows instruction (2012-02-06)
Post by: PJim on February 12, 2012, 08:30:17 AM
there is no such thing Yates row
dorian was genetically blessed in regard to back.....
if that was another guy or pro doing rows almost standing up...straight up he would be ridiculed
but as usual people are sheep


Maybe they would, but to be fair at least Dorian tries to explain logically the reasoning as to why he did them the way he did.