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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: howardroark on February 15, 2012, 03:49:43 PM
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http://reason.com/blog/2012/02/15/the-most-vile-and-inhumane-immigration-s (http://reason.com/blog/2012/02/15/the-most-vile-and-inhumane-immigration-s)
Felipe Montes lived and worked in the United States for nine years. During that time, he held a full-time job, paid his bills, and fathered two children with his wife, Marie. He failed, however, to pay several traffic tickets, or to acquire a driver's license or car insurance. As a result, a 2010 traffic stop ended with Montes being taken to a detention center where he was scheduled for deportation.
Marie Montes gave birth to the couple’s third child while her husband was behind bars. Six weeks later Felipe Montes was deported. Two weeks after that, the Allegheny County child welfare department took all three children from Marie Montes on the grounds that she could not afford to take care of them, and put them in foster care, where two of them have already been abused.
Color Lines, the publication put out by the immigration reform think tank Applied Research Center, interviewed Montes, his wife, and their neighbors in Sparta, North Carolina. “He was a real good guy and as a worker he could do anything,” said Montes’ former boss. “He loved those kids more than anything. We’d be doing tree work and it’d be kind of dangerous and he’d say, ‘I’ll do this but if something happens you have to take care of the kids, ok?’”
“I love my kids to death,” Montes told Color Lines. “When they were born, it’s something so wonderful you can’t explain.”
Apparently, love and dedication doesn’t qualify Montes to be a dad anymore, as the state of North Carolina is putting his children up for adoption:
Allegheny County has already convinced a judge to end family reunification efforts with Marie Montes. She wants the children to be placed with their father. “If they can’t be with me, I want them to be with him,” she said. “Nobody is a better father than he is.”
But next week, on February 21, the county’s Department of Social Services plans to ask a judge to cease all efforts to reunify the family and put the children into adoption proceedings with foster families. Though Felipe Montes was his children’s primary caregiver before he was deported and has not been charged with neglect, the child welfare department nonetheless believes that his children, who have now been in foster care for over a year, are better off in the care of strangers than in Mexico with their father.
For Montes, this feels tantamount to kidnapping.
“I cannot find the words to tell you how important my kids are to me. I would do anything for them,” he told Colorlines.com, speaking on his cell phone in Mexico while on a break from his job at a farm.
“In this world there are many injustices. At the very least, I would like them to send my kids to Mexico."
(http://media.reason.com/mc/_external/2012_02/a22eedecdb0ddedabfa2d4ccba2d7988.gif?h=383&w=258)
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And to all the dipshits who will inadvertently say "well he should have just come here LEGALLY:"
(http://reason.com/assets/db/07cf533ddb1d06350cf1ddb5942ef5ad.jpg)
(right click and select "view image" to see the whole process)
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thats fine, then fix the system...
the system being fucked doesnt excuse the fact they came here illegally...
whats wrong is wrong...
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thats fine, then fix the system...
the system being fucked doesnt excuse the fact they came here illegally...
whats wrong is wrong...
Was it wrong for Germans to shelter Jews from the Nazis during WWII? After all, it was illegal.
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Was it wrong for Germans to shelter Jews from the Nazis during WWII? After all, it was illegal.
Wrong.
Clearly wrong.
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Eye opener reading that chart btw.
System is clearly broken.
And what the fuck is up with deporting the parents and sticking the kids in foster care? Talk about fucked up. If they send the parents back, the kids should go too. It shouldnt be a double whammy, sorry youre going AND were taking your kids from you to stick with some other people that may or may not give a flying fuck about them.
Fucked up on all ends, destroys the kids psychologically, tears families apart.. so fucked up in so many ways.
A family should NEVER be torn apart for that reason.
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Bump
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Was it wrong for Germans to shelter Jews from the Nazis during WWII? After all, it was illegal.
I think their is a gigantic difference in deporting an illegal immigrant back to their homeland, and deporting a Jew from their homeland to a Concentration Camp......
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Why do we have to be the only country in the world that opens our borders to everyone?
Go check out what the ultra-liberal EU is doing on the borders of Greece to keep illegal Turks and other Muslims out. Fences and armed patrols. We're the only assholes on the planet that reward people for breaking the law while fucking over those who legally wait years to get in.
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Why do we have to be the only country in the world that opens our borders to everyone?
Go check out what the ultra-liberal EU is doing on the borders of Greece to keep illegal Turks and other Muslims out. Fences and armed patrols. We're the only assholes on the planet that reward people for breaking the law while fucking over those who legally wait years to get in.
I dont believe they should be allowed to enter easily -
BUT -
Taking their kids away and putting them into foster homes is pathetic. Parents get deported, kids should go to. Thats a retarded rule all the way around.
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Putting up fences and armed guards along hundreds of miles of border-region is not going to curb or dissuade illegal immigration....a policy like only serves to placate the anti-immigration populace to further political gain...it is not a practical solution. Unfortunately, in today's toxic political climate, the illegal immigrants themselves are villainized and depicted as criminal, racists, thugs, and rapists by a not-so-small number of people here in the US and on the other side, politicians pander to them in an effort to get the Hispanic vote (like granting amnesty to Mexicans is going to gain a Puerto Rican's vote, wtf).
There are 3 big reasons for Mexican/Central American illegal immigration. Here they are
- Currency and wage disparity. The 5.7 liter Hemi engine is produced in Mexico for use in Ram trucks, Chargers, and Challengers(and it is a crappy motor, btw). What the workers there make pales in comparison to what workers in factories in the US and Canada make. More often than not, cutting grass in the US generates much more income than being a skilled factory worker in Mexico.
- The US's insatiable appetite for illegal narcotics. Where there is demand, supply will follow.....and in the US, people love their drugs. With this huge demand, it has created the chaos that splashes across the papers everyday about brutal killings and violence throughout Mexico. With unprecedented violence that Mexico is having a hard time to contain, innocent people(and many not so innocent) stream north to escape the very real drug war.
- Corporations in the US actively recruiting low wage workers, many of whom are here illegally. You see this everywhere....from agriculture to construction, the workers(except for the bosses and foremen) are almost always uniformly of one nationality(Mexican). A sad example of this would be the meat packing industry, which, believe it or not, is actually a skilled trade that once employed Americans who made a decent wage from doing it. Now, unskilled workers are in there processing food that we eat. It takes many months to actually do a lot of the work in these plants.
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I dont believe they should be allowed to enter easily -
BUT -
Taking their kids away and putting them into foster homes is pathetic. Parents get deported, kids should go to. Thats a retarded rule all the way around.
Yeah, it's pretty dumb to break the families up. I agree with that.
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And to all the dipshits who will inadvertently say "well he should have just come here LEGALLY:"
(http://reason.com/assets/db/07cf533ddb1d06350cf1ddb5942ef5ad.jpg)
(right click and select "view image" to see the whole process)
This is such a good example of how the system lacks common sense. So I gather the government is acting on the fact that the children are American citizens and therefore most be put in he system and because the parents are illegal they don't have the right to take them to Mexico? That's whacked.
Or is it that the mom refuses to leave?
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Was it wrong for Germans to shelter Jews from the Nazis during WWII? After all, it was illegal.
you have got to be fucking shitting me...
I bet you think that comparing gays to slaves is a reasonable comparison as well...
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Godwin's Law. Thread should have ended half a dozen posts ago.
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you have got to be fucking shitting me...
I bet you think that comparing gays to slaves is a reasonable comparison as well...
I'm using the Nazi analogy to clarify your own moral beliefs. My point simply is that saying that all laws should be be followed at all times simply because the government decides that they should be laws is clearly absurd.
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I have sponsored two people for citizenship from Venezuela. I would support an amnesty provided that the illegal got two citizens to sign a guaranty of payment and put a bond like I had to in the event the illegal became a charge tot he state.
I signed a guaranty that in the event the two people I sponsored became a charge to the state I would be held responsible. Something like that could fly if done right.
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I'm using the Nazi analogy to clarify your own moral beliefs. My point simply is that saying that all laws should be be followed at all times simply because the government decides that they should be laws is clearly absurd.
LOL never said that, never thought it...you may have extrapolated that in error from my post but thats not what I alluded to.
Hyperbole isnt your friend, my friend...one could say the complete opposite of your example to derive a strawman to your stance.
::)
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tony, it does sound like that is what you implied:
thats fine, then fix the system...
the system being fucked doesnt excuse the fact they came here illegally...
whats wrong is wrong...
I said it before and I'll say it again: only because it's illegal doesn't mean that it's wrong.
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Why do we have to be the only country in the world that opens our borders to everyone?
Go check out what the ultra-liberal EU is doing on the borders of Greece to keep illegal Turks and other Muslims out. Fences and armed patrols. We're the only assholes on the planet that reward people for breaking the law while fucking over those who legally wait years to get in.
Are you seriously arguing that the United States should be more like Europe in general and Greece in particular?
I've got some news for you: the free movement of labor across borders is an essential part of free market capitalism and is just as beneficial, if not more so, as the free movement of goods across borders (aka free trade).
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Are you seriously arguing that the United States should be more like Europe in general and Greece in particular?
I've got some news for you: the free movement of labor across borders is an essential part of free market capitalism and is just as beneficial, if not more so, as the free movement of goods across borders (aka free trade).
it's a lot more complicated than that. When you add in, as Ron Paul says, the magnets for illegals, it's way to easy for illegals to squat here and soak up tax dollars
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I have sponsored two people for citizenship from Venezuela. I would support an amnesty provided that the illegal got two citizens to sign a guaranty of payment and put a bond like I had to in the event the illegal became a charge tot he state.
I signed a guaranty that in the event the two people I sponsored became a charge to the state I would be held responsible. Something like that could fly if done right.
Not a bad idea. I like the idea of allowing anyone to become a legal permanent resident as long as they are not given access to the welfare state.
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Not a bad idea. I like the idea of allowing anyone to become a legal permanent resident as long as they are not given access to the welfare state.
See, I can support that. If two citizens sign a personal guaranty of payment and show resources of support for the sponsored immigrant, I am totally cool with that.
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See, I can support that. If two citizens sign a personal guaranty of payment and show resources of support for the sponsored immigrant, I am totally cool with that.
Yup. Unfortunately, the pro-immigration libertarian movement is often confused with the pro-immigration left. What people often don't realize is that the former recognizes that allowing open immigration in the presence of the welfare state is a recipe for disaster, like what's happening in Sweden, Germany, France, and the UK right now.
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tony, it does sound like that is what you implied:
I said it before and I'll say it again: only because it's illegal doesn't mean that it's wrong.
LMFAO,
and the whats wrong is wrong part means what to you?
I completely agree with you the law isnt always right.
The fact is however comparing the two in the way you did is assinine and ignorant. The two situations are completely different.
You havent really given any support as to why them breaking the law in this case is ok...
I assume you will say something like they just wanted a better life. Well does that excuse homeless ppl from moving into the spare bedroom in your house?
see the same idiotic argument could be made from the reverse side...both equally IDIOTIC ::)
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LMFAO,
and the whats wrong is wrong part means what to you?
I completely agree with you the law isnt always right.
The fact is however comparing the two in the way you did is assinine and ignorant. The two situations are completely different.
You havent really given any support as to why them breaking the law in this case is ok...
I assume you will say something like they just wanted a better life. Well does that excuse homeless ppl from moving into the spare bedroom in your house?
see the same idiotic argument could be made from the reverse side...both equally IDIOTIC ::)
Seems like you're worse at analogies than I am.
A homeless person moving into the spare bedroom in your house involves the violation of your property rights. An immigrant coming to America to find a job and climb the socioeconomic ladder through hard work does not violate anyone's rights. However, preventing that immigrant from coming to America does violate their rights, but it also violates the rights of American citizens. As Harry Browne pointed out: "if we do have programs to close the borders, once again it will affect you more than it will affect the immigrants. They will make you carry an identity card. You will be stopped by policemen and asked to prove that you are a citizen. Your employer will be sanctioned for inadvertently letting an illegal immigrant go to work in your company. It will not keep the immigrants out, but it will be one more nail in the coffin of freedom in the United States for American citizens." http://www.lewrockwell.com/kramer/kramer16.html (http://www.lewrockwell.com/kramer/kramer16.html)
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Seems like you're worse at analogies than I am.
A homeless person moving into the spare bedroom in your house involves the violation of your property rights. An immigrant coming to America to find a job and climb the socioeconomic ladder through hard work does not violate anyone's rights. However, preventing that immigrant from coming to America does violate their rights, but it also violates the rights of American citizens. As Harry Browne pointed out: "if we do have programs to close the borders, once again it will affect you more than it will affect the immigrants. They will make you carry an identity card. You will be stopped by policemen and asked to prove that you are a citizen. Your employer will be sanctioned for inadvertently letting an illegal immigrant go to work in your company. It will not keep the immigrants out, but it will be one more nail in the coffin of freedom in the United States for American citizens." http://www.lewrockwell.com/kramer/kramer16.html (http://www.lewrockwell.com/kramer/kramer16.html)
ahhh the naivete of the academic with little to no life experience. Its a wonderous thing that will happen to your philosophy when reality hits it.
First off we were talking about legality and yes its the same parrellel as they are both breaking the law. You mean you want to draw differences with my analogy but you dont see the difference in comparing nazis to ice agents? FUCKING REALLY???
please do tell what rights of theirs we are violating, if they are taking away the ability US citizens to find jobs or causing them to pay more money in taxes is that not a violation of rights?
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First off we were talking about legality and yes its the same parrellel as they are both breaking the law.
No, they are not parallel. As I pointed out, going to another country to find a job does not violate anyone's rights. Breaking into someone's house does.
You mean you want to draw differences with my analogy but you dont see the difference in comparing nazis to ice agents? FUCKING REALLY???
Please, I know you're too intelligent to resort to stupid strawmen like that.
You know I wasn't comparing ICE agents to Nazis. I was simply pointing out that you can't say that it is wrong in every instance to do something that is "illegal."
please do tell what rights of theirs we are violating, if they are taking away the ability US citizens to find jobs or causing them to pay more money in taxes is that not a violation of rights?
First of all, getting a job does not violate anyone's rights. If that were the case, not only should it be illegal for immigrants to find jobs, it should be illegal for anyone to get a job. After all, if you were chosen for a job over me, wouldn't that violate my rights?
Regardless of the above fact, there is not a limited amount of jobs in the economy. The amount of jobs in the economy is determined by supply, demand, and the wage-rate. Having more people working means that more people are earning incomes with which they can buy goods. So more immigrants working in the US means higher demand for products sold in the US, which means more jobs.
Second of all, had you been reading this thread at all, you would have noticed two things:
1. This article is about a hard-working taxpayer, not a welfare leech, who was deported and whose kids were kidnapped from him by the US government and forcefully put into the welfare state. So, if anything, the government is now receiving less tax money while spending more because it deported this illegal immigrant.
2. I clearly stated that I believe that immigrants should not be given access to the welfare state. That is an important middle ground that bleeding-heart leftists and people who understand economics should be able to agree upon. Of course, it's a compromise that an economic ignoramus such as Lou Dobbs would not be expected to sign on to, but such people represent the minority of Americans. http://www.pollingreport.com/immigration.htm (http://www.pollingreport.com/immigration.htm)
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No, they are not parallel. As I pointed out, going to another country to find a job does not violate anyone's rights. Breaking into someone's house does.
First of all, getting a job does not violate anyone's rights. If that were the case, not only should it be illegal for immigrants to find jobs, it should be illegal for anyone to get a job. After all, if you were chosen for a job over me, wouldn't that violate my rights?
Regardless of the above fact, there is not a limited amount of jobs in the economy. The amount of jobs in the economy is determined by supply, demand, and the wage-rate. Having more people working means that more people are earning incomes with which they can buy goods. So more immigrants working in the US means higher demand for products sold in the US, which means more jobs.
Second of all, had you been reading this thread at all, you would have noticed two things:
1. This article is about a hard-working taxpayer, not a welfare leech, who was deported and whose kids were kidnapped from him by the US government and forcefully put into the welfare state. So, if anything, the government is now receiving less tax money while spending more because it deported this illegal immigrant.
2. I clearly stated that I believe that immigrants should not be given access to the welfare state. That is an important middle ground that bleeding-heart leftists and people who understand economics should be able to agree upon. Of course, it's a compromise that an economic ignoramus such as Lou Dobbs would not be expected to sign on to, but such people represent the minority of Americans. http://www.pollingreport.com/immigration.htm (http://www.pollingreport.com/immigration.htm)
lets leave the horrible analogies alone...you still didint tell us what rights we were violating of theirs by not letting them in the country?
Everything is relative my friend this is something you will learn as life slaps those high level philosophies around a little bit. Production capacity is limited which means jobs are limited. Demand is not some ever increasing variable, yes population will increase demand but if that money is sent back to mexico(which a lot of illegals do), or they keep cash instead of having a bank account(again which alot of illegals do).
Whos demand are we stimulating?
Yes creating stricter employment laws does decrease the unemployment rate of citizens. I refer you to I believe it was alabama that recently did this and their drop in unemployment.\
I can agree with you on the situation in question but your theories themselves are off if you ask me.
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1. Kidnapping someone from their home and separating them from their family and their job does not violate anyone's rights? ???
2. The fact that there are practically an unlimited amount of jobs is a matter of basic economics. Supply and demand is equilibriated by the price.
3. Practically every economic analysis of immigration shows a positive correlation between immigration and economic growth. Furthermore, practically every economic analysis of Alabama's immigration laws show a negative correlation between the law and economic performance. Migrant workers have fled the state, and now the construction industry and the agricultural industry has taken huge hits and will be forced to reduce production as a result.
4. Even if every immigrant spent all of their money overseas (which obviously is not the case), then that would still add to the US economy since the balance of payments must always equal zero. Take, for example, the US's huge trade deficits (and current account deficit) that are made up for in large capital account surpluses.
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1. Kidnapping someone from their home and separating them from their family and their job does not violate anyone's rights? ???
2. The fact that there are practically an unlimited amount of jobs is a matter of basic economics. Supply and demand is equilibriated by the price.
3. Practically every economic analysis of immigration shows a positive correlation between immigration and economic growth. Furthermore, practically every economic analysis of Alabama's immigration laws show a negative correlation between the law and economic performance. Migrant workers have fled the state, and now the construction industry and the agricultural industry has taken huge hits and will be forced to reduce production as a result.
4. Even if every immigrant spent all of their money overseas (which obviously is not the case), then that would still add to the US economy since the balance of payments must always equal zero. Take, for example, the US's huge trade deficits (and current account deficit) that are made up for in large capital account surpluses.
I would just like to add to this that what i have read and understand around 50% of illegal workers pay income tax as it's easy to get an IRS number. The others do send money home, but they still have to live so pay taxes on things they buy etc. The fact they send money home is not a bad thing, that's like blaming someone for saving money rather than spending it.
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They're breaking our laws.....what the fuck don't you understand. I don't care about their kids...their families...their jobs...anything. Get the fuck out. We have rules, follow the rules and you can come back.
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They're breaking our laws.....what the fuck don't you understand. I don't care about their kids...their families...their jobs...anything. Get the fuck out. We have rules, follow the rules and you can come back.
Back to this retarded argument... So you think it is always wrong to break laws? So it was wrong for Germans to hide Jews from the Nazis?
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I'm neither a German, nor a Jew. I live in 21st Century America....and when u cross my border, a border I have defended for 19 of my 37 years.......I have every right to shoot you, deport you....break up ur family, imprison you etc etc etc. I don't care.
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1. Kidnapping someone from their home and separating them from their family and their job does not violate anyone's rights? ???
2. The fact that there are practically an unlimited amount of jobs is a matter of basic economics. Supply and demand is equilibriated by the price.
3. Practically every economic analysis of immigration shows a positive correlation between immigration and economic growth. Furthermore, practically every economic analysis of Alabama's immigration laws show a negative correlation between the law and economic performance. Migrant workers have fled the state, and now the construction industry and the agricultural industry has taken huge hits and will be forced to reduce production as a result.
4. Even if every immigrant spent all of their money overseas (which obviously is not the case), then that would still add to the US economy since the balance of payments must always equal zero. Take, for example, the US's huge trade deficits (and current account deficit) that are made up for in large capital account surpluses.
LOL so basically you have not grounds to say were violating their rights but “feel” like we are? That’s very progressive of you…
Yes sir I know how supply and demand equilibrium are found. Its also basic economics that there are constraints on both supply and demand and elasticity of demand. Its also basic economics that different types of markets have basic constraints that they must deal with. You try to paint such a broad brush its ridiculous again very high level stuff, very randian of you also
Im not denying that immigrants don’t help the economy, you see in science proving one theory doesn’t disprove the other. That doesn’t mean there wouldn’t be a bigger impact if we had them come here legally does it?
Nobody is saying not to allow immigrants, yet another strawman argument…
Youre assuming that the money sent back somehow finds its way back to the US in investments. It equals zero b/c funds/assets etc are swept in and out of the account(I cant remember the name, it’s the last line item in the BOP) for the difference and statistical discrepancies not b/c there is an exact balancing act between the capital and current.
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Back to this retarded argument... So you think it is always wrong to break laws? So it was wrong for Germans to hide Jews from the Nazis?
LOL roark, not all laws are just but you havent given any reasoning to justify your stance that rights have been violeted by the laws being enforced here.
What rights of the deported person were violated, specifically what rights?
not just i feel its wrong...
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However, preventing that immigrant from coming to America does violate their rights,
I usually agree with you, but I think you're wrong here.
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I'm neither a German, nor a Jew. I live in 21st Century America....and when u cross my border, a border I have defended for 19 of my 37 years.......I have every right to shoot you, deport you....break up ur family, imprison you etc etc etc. I don't care.
YOUR border? You own all of America? ???
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YOUR border? You own all of America? ???
Every nation has a right to determine who enters and leaves.
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LOL roark, not all laws are just but you havent given any reasoning to justify your stance that rights have been violeted by the laws being enforced here.
What rights of the deported person were violated, specifically what rights?
not just i feel its wrong...
What rights? No rights of yours would be violated if some government thugs kidnapped you and sent you hundreds of miles away, while kidnapping your kids and putting them into an abusive "welfare" system?
I don't intend to launch into a treatise on what does and does not constitute individual rights, if you want to know I suggest you read this (http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/individual_rights.html).
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Every nation has a right to determine who enters and leaves.
So 51% can prevent the other 49% from leaving? Can anyone say Cuba?
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So 51% can prevent the other 49% from leaving? Can anyone say Cuba?
No - you are taking it to. Extremes. Every nation jas a interest in preventing criminals , terrorists, pedos, etc from coming in.
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LOL so basically you have not grounds to say were violating their rights but “feel” like we are? That’s very progressive of you…
Not at all. Another strawman argument.
Yes sir I know how supply and demand equilibrium are found. Its also basic economics that there are constraints on both supply and demand and elasticity of demand.
Elasticity of demand has literally nothing to do with the argument at hand.
Its also basic economics that different types of markets have basic constraints that they must deal with.
You're clearly not getting the argument here. More labor supply = lower nominal wage rate = equilibrium (no unemployment).
You try to paint such a broad brush its ridiculous again very high level stuff very randian of you also
::)
Please, tell me ONE thing you know about Ayn Rand. That's right... you can't.
Im not denying that immigrants don’t help the economy, you see in science proving one theory doesn’t disprove the other. That doesn’t mean there wouldn’t be a bigger impact if we had them come here legally does it?
Another point that has nothing to do with the argument at hand.
Nobody is saying not to allow immigrants, yet another strawman argument…
I never claimed that that's what you claimed.
Youre assuming that the money sent back somehow finds its way back to the US in investments. It equals zero b/c funds/assets etc are swept in and out of the account(I cant remember the name, it’s the last line item in the BOP) for the difference and statistical discrepancies not b/c there is an exact balancing act between the capital and current.
Yes, basic international economics. Balance of payments must equal zero. So even if every penny immigrants earned was sent overseas, it would be make it back to the US.
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No - you are taking it to. Extremes. Every nation jas a interest in preventing criminals , terrorists, pedos, etc from coming in.
If a criminal or terrorist enters the country, then you arrest them either way. This has nothing to do with immigration laws. You're making a non-argument.
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If a criminal or terrorist enters the country, then you arrest them either way. This has nothing to do with immigration laws. You're making a non-argument.
We should not have to wait till another crime is committed by a immigrant pedo.
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We should not have to wait till another crime is committed by a immigrant pedo.
I don't get what you're saying. If a criminal enters the country, then you arrest them. This isn't an issue of immigration, but of (rational) law enforcement.
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I don't get what you're saying. If a criminal enters the country, then you arrest them. This isn't an issue of immigration, but of (rational) law enforcement.
The opens border crowd largely is against rational LE.
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The opens border crowd largely is against rational LE.
And that has to do with what I'm arguing how exactly?
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What rights? No rights of yours would be violated if some government thugs kidnapped you and sent you hundreds of miles away, while kidnapping your kids and putting them into an abusive "welfare" system?
I don't intend to launch into a treatise on what does and does not constitute individual rights, if you want to know I suggest you read this (http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/individual_rights.html).
I suggest you come forward with the rights of their we are violating...
As of now you just seem to "feel" its wrong.
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Not at all. Another strawman argument.
Elasticity of demand has literally nothing to do with the argument at hand.
You're clearly not getting the argument here. More labor supply = lower nominal wage rate = equilibrium (no unemployment).
::)
Please, tell me ONE thing you know about Ayn Rand. That's right... you can't.
Another point that has nothing to do with the argument at hand.
I never claimed that that's what you claimed.
Yes, basic international economics. Balance of payments must equal zero. So even if every penny immigrants earned was sent overseas, it would be make it back to the US.
holy shit ive had to much to drink to go over your quote/response debacle but first.
Your whole premise is based on the argument we are violating their rights. WHAT RIGHTS ARE WE VIOLATING???
HOLY FUCK YOURE A RETARD....
first of all the contraints on both supply and demand negate your argument
also you have heard of the the statistical discrepancy right and the fact that the current and capital account dont magically equal out...AGAIN YOU JACK ASS, there is another account Ill pull my old notes and get you the exact name that the govt pulls or puts foreign reserves, golds etc in and out of to balance the BOP account...
YOU DO KNOW THAT RIGHT?
yes the BOP must equal but that doesnt mean that the capital and current are what make it equal...
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Here you go Roark, notice the official reserves line item at the bottom of the table. Notice how the line directly above that named "balance" is not zero.
Now read the first few sentences in the paragraph paying special attention to the words "deficit" and "surplus"
The BOP does equal out but not just b/c there is some magical balancing act in the credits/debits of the capital/current.