Author Topic: The Government's Inhumane Immigration Policy  (Read 2265 times)

howardroark

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2524
  • Resident Objectivist & Autodidact
The Government's Inhumane Immigration Policy
« on: February 15, 2012, 03:49:43 PM »
http://reason.com/blog/2012/02/15/the-most-vile-and-inhumane-immigration-s

Felipe Montes lived and worked in the United States for nine years. During that time, he held a full-time job, paid his bills, and fathered two children with his wife, Marie. He failed, however, to pay several traffic tickets, or to acquire a driver's license or car insurance. As a result, a 2010 traffic stop ended with Montes being taken to a detention center where he was scheduled for deportation.

Marie Montes gave birth to the couple’s third child while her husband was behind bars. Six weeks later Felipe Montes was deported. Two weeks after that, the Allegheny County child welfare department took all three children from Marie Montes on the grounds that she could not afford to take care of them, and put them in foster care, where two of them have already been abused.

Color Lines, the publication put out by the immigration reform think tank Applied Research Center, interviewed Montes, his wife, and their neighbors in Sparta, North Carolina. “He was a real good guy and as a worker he could do anything,” said Montes’ former boss. “He loved those kids more than anything. We’d be doing tree work and it’d be kind of dangerous and he’d say, ‘I’ll do this but if something happens you have to take care of the kids, ok?’”

“I love my kids to death,” Montes told Color Lines. “When they were born, it’s something so wonderful you can’t explain.”

Apparently, love and dedication doesn’t qualify Montes to be a dad anymore, as the state of North Carolina is putting his children up for adoption:

    Allegheny County has already convinced a judge to end family reunification efforts with Marie Montes. She wants the children to be placed with their father. “If they can’t be with me, I want them to be with him,” she said. “Nobody is a better father than he is.”

    But next week, on February 21, the county’s Department of Social Services plans to ask a judge to cease all efforts to reunify the family and put the children into adoption proceedings with foster families. Though Felipe Montes was his children’s primary caregiver before he was deported and has not been charged with neglect, the child welfare department nonetheless believes that his children, who have now been in foster care for over a year, are better off in the care of strangers than in Mexico with their father.

    For Montes, this feels tantamount to kidnapping.

    “I cannot find the words to tell you how important my kids are to me. I would do anything for them,” he told Colorlines.com, speaking on his cell phone in Mexico while on a break from his job at a farm.

    “In this world there are many injustices. At the very least, I would like them to send my kids to Mexico."



howardroark

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2524
  • Resident Objectivist & Autodidact
Re: The Government's Inhumane Immigration Policy
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2012, 03:52:17 PM »
And to all the dipshits who will inadvertently say "well he should have just come here LEGALLY:"



(right click and select "view image" to see the whole process)

tonymctones

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26520
Re: The Government's Inhumane Immigration Policy
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2012, 04:01:16 PM »
thats fine, then fix the system...

the system being fucked doesnt excuse the fact they came here illegally...

whats wrong is wrong...

howardroark

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2524
  • Resident Objectivist & Autodidact
Re: The Government's Inhumane Immigration Policy
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2012, 05:41:26 PM »
thats fine, then fix the system...

the system being fucked doesnt excuse the fact they came here illegally...

whats wrong is wrong...

Was it wrong for Germans to shelter Jews from the Nazis during WWII? After all, it was illegal.

Shockwave

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 20807
  • Decepticons! Scramble!
Re: The Government's Inhumane Immigration Policy
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2012, 02:08:34 PM »
Was it wrong for Germans to shelter Jews from the Nazis during WWII? After all, it was illegal.
Wrong.
Clearly wrong.

Shockwave

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 20807
  • Decepticons! Scramble!
Re: The Government's Inhumane Immigration Policy
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2012, 02:12:05 PM »
Eye opener reading that chart btw.
System is clearly broken.
And what the fuck is up with deporting the parents and sticking the kids in foster care? Talk about fucked up. If they send the parents back, the kids should go too. It shouldnt be a double whammy, sorry youre going AND were taking your kids from you to stick with some other people that may or may not give a flying fuck about them.

Fucked up on all ends, destroys the kids psychologically, tears families apart.. so fucked up in so many ways.
A family should NEVER be torn apart for that reason.

whork

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6587
  • Getbig!
Re: The Government's Inhumane Immigration Policy
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2012, 02:57:21 PM »
Bump

Roger Bacon

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 20957
  • Roger Bacon tries to be witty and fails
Re: The Government's Inhumane Immigration Policy
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2012, 04:14:39 PM »
Was it wrong for Germans to shelter Jews from the Nazis during WWII? After all, it was illegal.

I think their is a gigantic difference in deporting an illegal immigrant back to their homeland, and deporting a Jew from their homeland to a Concentration Camp......


Fury

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 21026
  • All aboard the USS Leverage
Re: The Government's Inhumane Immigration Policy
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2012, 04:25:10 PM »
Why do we have to be the only country in the world that opens our borders to everyone?

Go check out what the ultra-liberal EU is doing on the borders of Greece to keep illegal Turks and other Muslims out. Fences and armed patrols. We're the only assholes on the planet that reward people for breaking the law while fucking over those who legally wait years to get in.

Shockwave

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 20807
  • Decepticons! Scramble!
Re: The Government's Inhumane Immigration Policy
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2012, 04:41:37 PM »
Why do we have to be the only country in the world that opens our borders to everyone?

Go check out what the ultra-liberal EU is doing on the borders of Greece to keep illegal Turks and other Muslims out. Fences and armed patrols. We're the only assholes on the planet that reward people for breaking the law while fucking over those who legally wait years to get in.
I dont believe they should be allowed to enter easily -

BUT -

Taking their kids away and putting them into foster homes is pathetic. Parents get deported, kids should go to. Thats a retarded rule all the way around.

JBGRAY

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2038
Re: The Government's Inhumane Immigration Policy
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2012, 05:49:11 PM »
  Putting up fences and armed guards along hundreds of miles of border-region is not going to curb or dissuade illegal immigration....a policy like only serves to placate the anti-immigration populace to further political gain...it is not a practical solution.  Unfortunately, in today's toxic political climate, the illegal immigrants themselves are villainized and depicted as criminal, racists, thugs, and rapists by a not-so-small number of people here in the US and on the other side, politicians pander to them in an effort to get the Hispanic vote (like granting amnesty to Mexicans is going to gain a Puerto Rican's vote, wtf).

There are 3 big reasons for Mexican/Central American illegal immigration.  Here they are

- Currency and wage disparity.  The 5.7 liter Hemi engine is produced in Mexico for use in Ram trucks, Chargers, and Challengers(and it is a crappy motor, btw).  What the workers there make pales in comparison to what workers in factories in the US and Canada make.  More often than not, cutting grass in the US generates much more income than being a skilled factory worker in Mexico.

- The US's insatiable appetite for illegal narcotics.  Where there is demand, supply will follow.....and in the US, people love their drugs.  With this huge demand, it has created the chaos that splashes across the papers everyday about brutal killings and violence throughout Mexico.  With unprecedented violence that Mexico is having a hard time to contain, innocent people(and many not so innocent) stream north to escape the very real drug war.

- Corporations in the US actively recruiting low wage workers, many of whom are here illegally.  You see this everywhere....from agriculture to construction, the workers(except for the bosses and foremen) are almost always uniformly of one nationality(Mexican).  A sad example of this would be the meat packing industry, which, believe it or not, is actually a skilled trade that once employed Americans who made a decent wage from doing it.  Now, unskilled workers are in there processing food that we eat.  It takes many months to actually do a lot of the work in these plants.

Fury

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 21026
  • All aboard the USS Leverage
Re: The Government's Inhumane Immigration Policy
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2012, 06:56:14 PM »
I dont believe they should be allowed to enter easily -

BUT -

Taking their kids away and putting them into foster homes is pathetic. Parents get deported, kids should go to. Thats a retarded rule all the way around.


Yeah, it's pretty dumb to break the families up. I agree with that.

OzmO

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22846
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
Re: The Government's Inhumane Immigration Policy
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2012, 07:04:16 PM »
And to all the dipshits who will inadvertently say "well he should have just come here LEGALLY:"



(right click and select "view image" to see the whole process)

This is such a good example of how the system lacks common sense.  So I gather the government is acting on the fact that the children are American citizens and therefore most be put in he system and because the parents are illegal they don't have the right to take them to Mexico?  That's whacked.

Or is it that the mom refuses to leave? 

tonymctones

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26520
Re: The Government's Inhumane Immigration Policy
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2012, 07:24:43 PM »
Was it wrong for Germans to shelter Jews from the Nazis during WWII? After all, it was illegal.
you have got to be fucking shitting me...

I bet you think that comparing gays to slaves is a reasonable comparison as well...

Fury

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 21026
  • All aboard the USS Leverage
Re: The Government's Inhumane Immigration Policy
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2012, 07:34:57 PM »
Godwin's Law. Thread should have ended half a dozen posts ago.

howardroark

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2524
  • Resident Objectivist & Autodidact
Re: The Government's Inhumane Immigration Policy
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2012, 07:43:53 PM »
you have got to be fucking shitting me...

I bet you think that comparing gays to slaves is a reasonable comparison as well...

I'm using the Nazi analogy to clarify your own moral beliefs. My point simply is that saying that all laws should be be followed at all times simply because the government decides that they should be laws is clearly absurd.

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41760
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: The Government's Inhumane Immigration Policy
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2012, 07:53:50 PM »
I have sponsored two people for citizenship from Venezuela.   I would support an amnesty provided that the illegal got two citizens to sign a guaranty of payment and put  a bond like I had to in the event the illegal became a charge tot he state. 

I signed a guaranty that in the event the two people I sponsored became a charge to the state I would be held responsible.  Something like that could fly if done right. 

tonymctones

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26520
Re: The Government's Inhumane Immigration Policy
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2012, 07:58:30 PM »
I'm using the Nazi analogy to clarify your own moral beliefs. My point simply is that saying that all laws should be be followed at all times simply because the government decides that they should be laws is clearly absurd.
LOL never said that, never thought it...you may have extrapolated that in error from my post but thats not what I alluded to.

Hyperbole isnt your friend, my friend...one could say the complete opposite of your example to derive a strawman to your stance.

::)

howardroark

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2524
  • Resident Objectivist & Autodidact
Re: The Government's Inhumane Immigration Policy
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2012, 08:22:45 PM »
tony, it does sound like that is what you implied:

thats fine, then fix the system...

the system being fucked doesnt excuse the fact they came here illegally...

whats wrong is wrong...

I said it before and I'll say it again: only because it's illegal doesn't mean that it's wrong.

howardroark

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2524
  • Resident Objectivist & Autodidact
Re: The Government's Inhumane Immigration Policy
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2012, 08:25:08 PM »
Why do we have to be the only country in the world that opens our borders to everyone?

Go check out what the ultra-liberal EU is doing on the borders of Greece to keep illegal Turks and other Muslims out. Fences and armed patrols. We're the only assholes on the planet that reward people for breaking the law while fucking over those who legally wait years to get in.

Are you seriously arguing that the United States should be more like Europe in general and Greece in particular?

I've got some news for you: the free movement of labor across borders is an essential part of free market capitalism and is just as beneficial, if not more so, as the free movement of goods across borders (aka free trade).

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41760
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: The Government's Inhumane Immigration Policy
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2012, 08:27:22 PM »
Are you seriously arguing that the United States should be more like Europe in general and Greece in particular?

I've got some news for you: the free movement of labor across borders is an essential part of free market capitalism and is just as beneficial, if not more so, as the free movement of goods across borders (aka free trade).

it's a lot more complicated than that.   When you add in, as Ron Paul says, the magnets for illegals, it's way to easy for illegals to squat here and soak up tax dollars

howardroark

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2524
  • Resident Objectivist & Autodidact
Re: The Government's Inhumane Immigration Policy
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2012, 08:27:45 PM »
I have sponsored two people for citizenship from Venezuela.   I would support an amnesty provided that the illegal got two citizens to sign a guaranty of payment and put  a bond like I had to in the event the illegal became a charge tot he state. 

I signed a guaranty that in the event the two people I sponsored became a charge to the state I would be held responsible.  Something like that could fly if done right. 

Not a bad idea. I like the idea of allowing anyone to become a legal permanent resident as long as they are not given access to the welfare state.

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41760
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: The Government's Inhumane Immigration Policy
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2012, 08:30:08 PM »
Not a bad idea. I like the idea of allowing anyone to become a legal permanent resident as long as they are not given access to the welfare state.

See, I can support that.   If two citizens sign a personal guaranty of payment and show resources of support for the sponsored immigrant, I am totally cool with that.   

howardroark

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2524
  • Resident Objectivist & Autodidact
Re: The Government's Inhumane Immigration Policy
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2012, 08:35:26 PM »
See, I can support that.   If two citizens sign a personal guaranty of payment and show resources of support for the sponsored immigrant, I am totally cool with that.   

Yup. Unfortunately, the pro-immigration libertarian movement is often confused with the pro-immigration left. What people often don't realize is that the former recognizes that allowing open immigration in the presence of the welfare state is a recipe for disaster, like what's happening in Sweden, Germany, France, and the UK right now.

tonymctones

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26520
Re: The Government's Inhumane Immigration Policy
« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2012, 08:46:38 PM »
tony, it does sound like that is what you implied:

I said it before and I'll say it again: only because it's illegal doesn't mean that it's wrong.
LMFAO,

and the whats wrong is wrong part means what to you?

I completely agree with you the law isnt always right.

The fact is however comparing the two in the way you did is assinine and ignorant. The two situations are completely different.

You havent really given any support as to why them breaking the law in this case is ok...

I assume you will say something like they just wanted a better life. Well does that excuse homeless ppl from moving into the spare bedroom in your house?

see the same idiotic argument could be made from the reverse side...both equally IDIOTIC ::)