Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: SmoofCat on March 11, 2012, 09:52:11 PM
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Thank you all so much for helping me critique the cycle through the last week. I have been very absent from the boards this weekend, because my pregnant girlfriend moved into my house. I have my blood pressure issues under control entirely since I started the propanolol, and I firmly believe that my blood pressure was not as much affected by the tren ace as it was by the t3/clen. With that in mind, I am dropping the clen. Please review and critique my cycle. It will last 6 months.
1400 mg tren ace weekly
700 mg primo weekly
700 mg NPP weekly
1 gram of sustanon weekly
15 iu daily of hgh
12.5 mcg of t3, to combo with the gh
20 mg of proviron daily
50 mg of injectable anadrol daily
notes
1. i just got my hands on two kits of serostim, so i am currently running it at 15 iu daily until it runs out, and then am going right back to my blue tops. i am pretty psyched about it. today was the my first day on the serostim, and i ran a full 15 iu, and i have eaten everything i can get my sight on today, had one of the best workouts of my life, and i am about to get the best nights sleep of my life. too bad i only have 2 kits and they will last me under a month.
2. the reason i am running a gram of sustanon weekly is because this is now a heavy cycle, and i am taking 15 iu of serostim daily, and will be taking 15-20 iu of blue tops when the serostim is through. my body is primed to take advantage of the testosterone, and with this much tren ace, primo and npp, i do not think a gram will hurt me. even the pros occasionally up their test to 1.5-2.5 grams weekly. i have been running almost no test for so long, and i think for this upcoming cycle i want to re introduce a higher dose. Also, I am going with sustanon because it is my favorite test, even over prop.
questions:
1. Since I am taking a 6 month break from masteron, because I have been on it for so long, what is a good way to prevent gyno? I really do not want to run arimidex anymore for multiple reasons, and nolvadex does not do the trick. What dosage of letrozole is a good one to run? And would letrozole be good, or does it have negative side affects like arimidex does? The reason I ask about this is because this is going to be the heaviest cycle I have ever run. And in the past, I have relied on either masteron or arimidex for gyno prevention. And I know when I run neither, I do develop very small lumps under my right nipple. So please advise me on a specific protocol for an alternative to arimidex and masteron for gyno prevention, and let me know if letrozole will work. Please be specific.
2. What is everyone's opinion of t3? Does it make sense to run it at this low of a dose? I was specifically told from one of my friends who is qualified for nationals and runs 12 iu daily of pharmacy grade and 6 gram cycles that t3 is extremely important when running this much HGH. I looked for information on this online, and found a bunch of bullshit on other boards that makes no sense. Give it to me straight. Why does t3 help with hgh, and how much should I run daily? Is 12.5 mcg too little or ok (this dose was advised)? I have run t3 with clen in the past to prep for a photo shoot, but i frankly did not know what i was doing back then, and i was not on hgh.
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HRT doseage for t3 is around 25mcg per day. id go with that number. t3 has a sensitive absorption rate, ull will average ~50% or less absorption if taken with food or nutrients.. when taken on an empty stomach, no food for 4 hours before or 1 hour later, water only.. absorption will hover around 90%..
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i love t3 with my 10 iu gh,,slinpimp introduced me to it,,it keep the bloat away and u have more energy through day,,,i really like t3 with my gh
cycle look good smoof,,,15 iu serostim???u lucky bastard!!1 ;D
p.s i have aranged 5 kit of lily humatrope for summer,,this serostim equivalent for us euro guys ;)
p.s2 have u try aromasin for estro?i not liek letro man it eliminate to much estro,,i feel liek weak bitch on it,,,dunno why
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Thank you all so much for helping me critique the cycle through the last week. I have been very absent from the boards this weekend, because my pregnant girlfriend moved into my house. I have my blood pressure issues under control entirely since I started the propanolol, and I firmly believe that my blood pressure was not as much affected by the tren ace as it was by the t3/clen. With that in mind, I am dropping the clen. Please review and critique my cycle. It will last 6 months.
1400 mg tren ace weekly
700 mg primo weekly
700 mg NPP weekly
1 gram of sustanon weekly
15 iu daily of hgh
12.5 mcg of t3, to combo with the gh
20 mg of proviron daily
50 mg of injectable anadrol daily
notes
1. i just got my hands on two kits of serostim, so i am currently running it at 15 iu daily until it runs out, and then am going right back to my blue tops. i am pretty psyched about it. today was the my first day on the serostim, and i ran a full 15 iu, and i have eaten everything i can get my sight on today, had one of the best workouts of my life, and i am about to get the best nights sleep of my life. too bad i only have 2 kits and they will last me under a month.
2. the reason i am running a gram of sustanon weekly is because this is now a heavy cycle, and i am taking 15 iu of serostim daily, and will be taking 15-20 iu of blue tops when the serostim is through. my body is primed to take advantage of the testosterone, and with this much tren ace, primo and npp, i do not think a gram will hurt me. even the pros occasionally up their test to 1.5-2.5 grams weekly. i have been running almost no test for so long, and i think for this upcoming cycle i want to re introduce a higher dose. Also, I am going with sustanon because it is my favorite test, even over prop.
questions:
1. Since I am taking a 6 month break from masteron, because I have been on it for so long, what is a good way to prevent gyno? I really do not want to run arimidex anymore for multiple reasons, and nolvadex does not do the trick. What dosage of letrozole is a good one to run? And would letrozole be good, or does it have negative side affects like arimidex does? The reason I ask about this is because this is going to be the heaviest cycle I have ever run. And in the past, I have relied on either masteron or arimidex for gyno prevention. And I know when I run neither, I do develop very small lumps under my right nipple. So please advise me on a specific protocol for an alternative to arimidex and masteron for gyno prevention, and let me know if letrozole will work. Please be specific.
2. What is everyone's opinion of t3? Does it make sense to run it at this low of a dose? I was specifically told from one of my friends who is qualified for nationals and runs 12 iu daily of pharmacy grade and 6 gram cycles that t3 is extremely important when running this much HGH. I looked for information on this online, and found a bunch of bullshit on other boards that makes no sense. Give it to me straight. Why does t3 help with hgh, and how much should I run daily? Is 12.5 mcg too little or ok (this dose was advised)? I have run t3 with clen in the past to prep for a photo shoot, but i frankly did not know what i was doing back then, and i was not on hgh.
IM NOT AS EXPERIENCED AS YOU, BUT HERE'S MY TAKES.
1. SEROSTIM, USE THE FINAL DAYS OF THE 15IU. IMAGINE GOING FROM SERO TO GENERIC BLUE TOP, THAT'S LIKE 20IU TO 12 IU. YOU'LL NOTICE THAT. START BLUE TOPS, THEN FINAL TOUCHES IS SEROSTIM.
2. GREAT JOB DROPPING CLEN. NO CLEN.
3. PROLACTIN WISE, ID SUGGEST ABOUT 300MG VITAMIN B6, NO CABER. ID SAY USUALLY 100-200 B6 BUT YOU GOT 2.1G OF THE MOST POTENT GYNO THINGS AND THEN A LOT OF FLUCTUATING TEST. 300MG WILL DO YOU FINE. PERHAPS EVEN A LOW DOSE CABER, MAYBE. LIKE .25MG CABER TWICE A WEEK AND 200MG VITAMIN B6 NIGHTLY.
4. DONT USE LETRO UNTIL PRE-COMP AND THE FINAL DAYS OUT. AVOID AI/AE'S EXCEPT PROVI & MAST AND SINCE U TOOK EM OUT, VITAMIN B6 OR LOW DOSE CABER/VITAMIN B6.
5. 12.5MCG T3 IS GOOD.
6. THAT SUST FROM WHERE I THINK IT IS? I HAVEN'T SEEN AN UG TEST MORE RAVED ABOUT, AND I KNOW MANY(ABOUT 10) PEOPLE THAT CLAIM IT'S THE GREATEST TEST THEY'VE EVER USED.
7. WHAT ARE YOUR GOALS FOR THIS? IF IT'S A LEAN BULK, MIGHT I SUGGEST DROPPING SOME TREN AND ADDING MORE PRIMO? AND WHEN IT'S CONTEST TIME, UP THAT TREN AND ADD MASTERON?
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HRT doseage for t3 is around 25mcg per day. id go with that number. t3 has a sensitive absorption rate, ull will average ~50% or less absorption if taken with food or nutrients.. when taken on an empty stomach, no food for 4 hours before or 1 hour later, water only.. absorption will hover around 90%..
Ok good advice thanks. Will definitely do this.
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i love t3 with my 10 iu gh,,slinpimp introduced me to it,,it keep the bloat away and u have more energy through day,,,i really like t3 with my gh
cycle look good smoof,,,15 iu serostim???u lucky bastard!!1 ;D
p.s i have aranged 5 kit of lily humatrope for summer,,this serostim equivalent for us euro guys ;)
p.s2 have u try aromasin for estro?i not liek letro man it eliminate to much estro,,i feel liek weak bitch on it,,,dunno why
Only 2 kits though, and the way I ran into them this Saturday was totally random. My guy who usually is a 2.5-3 hour drive away happened to be at my gym on Saturday training with a mutual friend. The rest of
The story writes itself
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i love t3 with my 10 iu gh,,slinpimp introduced me to it,,it keep the bloat away and u have more energy through day,,,i really like t3 with my gh
cycle look good smoof,,,15 iu serostim???u lucky bastard!!1 ;D
p.s i have aranged 5 kit of lily humatrope for summer,,this serostim equivalent for us euro guys ;)
p.s2 have u try aromasin for estro?i not liek letro man it eliminate to much estro,,i feel liek weak bitch on it,,,dunno why
I can't use aromas in or arimidex etc etc makes me flat and weak
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I don't get it. Didn't you post about kigs that you were on 5IU and tried 10IU and couldn't handle it and now all of a sudden you're on 15IU or REAL pharma GH and you are fine?
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How much are you going to have to eat on that much tren to put size on do you think? I'm with nosleep in that maybe you should drop the tren dose a little in favor of more primo or something, and increase more towards the show?
Otherwise, fuck man that is a mutation cycle for sure.
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I don't get it. Didn't you post about kigs that you were on 5IU and tried 10IU and couldn't handle it and now all of a sudden you're on 15IU or REAL pharma GH and you are fine?
Yeah 6 months ago when I had run no gh for 8 months 5 iu of the real kigs fucking rocked me . But I quickly was up to 15-20 iu of the real Kigs daily because my body adapted. Those kigs were good. 5 iu of them = 15 iu of these blues. They were almostt as good as this serosti
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And yeah I have 2 kits of serostim 126 iu each and I'm going to run 15 iu daily because gh comes and goes. The more the merrier. Fuck it. Not going to dick around w 5 iu of sero daily i would rather just blast it and be done with it, because frankly I may not see pharm grade for a long time.
And the last time I had one kit of serosti
I ran 4 iu daily and the results were great but not mind blowing.
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How much are you going to have to eat on that much tren to put size on do you think? I'm with nosleep in that maybe you should drop the tren dose a little in favor of more primo or something, and increase more towards the show?
Otherwise, fuck man that is a mutation cycle for sure.
You can be In a calorie deficit on tren and still gain muscle. 200 mg daily is apparently the magic number.
I know my cycle seems insane, and one reason is because I have 7 months until I am a father. This surely won't hurt me. And I don't know what te future holds for me in terms
Of anabolics. I have all this amazing gear and gh right now and I want to take it all in one blast cycle per the next 6-7 months. I want to compete twice before I have a kid . I want to run this cycle now, because I am frankly ready to run this cycle.
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Can anyone respond to my letrozole question?
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Can anyone respond to my letrozole question?
FWIW, I have only heard of people using letro to kill gyno when it pops up. It will absolutely crush your estrogen and fuck up your lipids.
I'm not a big fan of running ancillaries "just in case". For example, I always have some exemestane and nolva on hand, but I only needed them twice. The first cycle I ever did was test and dbol and I swole up with water and started getting itchy nips so I ran the nolva and it fixed my shit before gyno could ever set in.
The one time I ever got over a gram of cyp, I was holding water like crazy again, so I got on some exemestane and in about a week I looked a lot better, and had better wood.
So I almost think you should start the cycle as you have it laid out and see what kind of sides you get and go from there. I can run a gram of sust with no problems, it's only when I use a high dose of long estered shit that it fucks me up. Now between the tren and NPP your progesterone might get crazy, so I would do like nosleep said above.
I don't think I would fuck with letro unless you had lumps.
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I don't like Letro, it's too powerful IMO. I think it's great for pre-contest though. I don't use it so i can't really help you with a protocol, but I'm sure someone with better experience will chime in soon.
As for GH and T3; my understanding is that the high GH dose causes your thyroid to slow down and become sluggish. This is why a lot of guys recommend running 25mcg of T3 as a supplement to GH use. I have seen very little medical documentation to prove this, but i do know that my own thyroid has become rather sluggish over the past 18 months that i have been on GH. I go up to 75-100mcg of T3 when i want to cut.
I never liked clen, makes me feel wired and jittery.
This looks like a solid cycle. You are going to be a silverback gorilla.
8)
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If you don't like Arimidex you're probably not going to like Letrozole. They extremely similar, but Letro's total suppression rate is more substantial. If you are Gyno sensitive though, and you obviously know you are you're going to have to do something, especially with what you have planned. Things like caber and B-vit aren't going to protect you at all....not in this case.
All that said, with Adex or Letro, with the amount of gear you're using I see it being unlikely that any AI in a reasonable dose is going to affect you negatively in the manner you described.
If Letro is what you're thinking, you might try 0.5mg/eod and see how that works. If that's not enough, and due to the amount of gear you're using it'll be close, if Gyno symptoms start showing you'll need around 2.5mg/ed for 10-14 days. Once the symptoms fade, back it down to 1mg/ed for about 7 days and then 1mg/eod and hold there for a wk or two....you might be able to slowly ease back down even lower, but obviously 0.5mg/eod would be too low if that didn't work for you early on.
As a side note, just based on something you said and it seems to be a misconception held by a lot of the board...it as best I can tell either stems from something GH15 said incorrectly or was misinterpreted by others...one of the two. You said "even the pros occasionally up their test to 1.5-2.5 grams weekly".....my point....I know of plenty of pros who run a maintenance dose of test at 2g/wk, they don't up it to 2g....that's maintenance. Either way, that's a lot of test.
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I can't use aromas in or arimidex etc etc makes me flat and weak
i hear u brother
ok i not as advance as u but im on more than 5 year,,my advice to u is,,if u dont like aromasin ,,letro will kill u
is TOO strong,,after 2 dose my joint was hurt,,mood fuck all..no strength etc
i wouldnt take it again,,beter aromasin and looking flat imo
what about if u run 12.5mg aromasin eod? this very litle dose maybe wont flaten u
im sory for bad english
respect
madg
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Thats an insane Cycle :o
Have you considered Aromasin for an AI?
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IM NOT AS EXPERIENCED AS YOU, BUT HERE'S MY TAKES.
1. SEROSTIM, USE THE FINAL DAYS OF THE 15IU. IMAGINE GOING FROM SERO TO GENERIC BLUE TOP, THAT'S LIKE 20IU TO 12 IU. YOU'LL NOTICE THAT. START BLUE TOPS, THEN FINAL TOUCHES IS SEROSTIM.
2. GREAT JOB DROPPING CLEN. NO CLEN.
3. PROLACTIN WISE, ID SUGGEST ABOUT 300MG VITAMIN B6, NO CABER. ID SAY USUALLY 100-200 B6 BUT YOU GOT 2.1G OF THE MOST POTENT GYNO THINGS AND THEN A LOT OF FLUCTUATING TEST. 300MG WILL DO YOU FINE. PERHAPS EVEN A LOW DOSE CABER, MAYBE. LIKE .25MG CABER TWICE A WEEK AND 200MG VITAMIN B6 NIGHTLY.
4. DONT USE LETRO UNTIL PRE-COMP AND THE FINAL DAYS OUT. AVOID AI/AE'S EXCEPT PROVI & MAST AND SINCE U TOOK EM OUT, VITAMIN B6 OR LOW DOSE CABER/VITAMIN B6.
5. 12.5MCG T3 IS GOOD.
6. THAT SUST FROM WHERE I THINK IT IS? I HAVEN'T SEEN AN UG TEST MORE RAVED ABOUT, AND I KNOW MANY(ABOUT 10) PEOPLE THAT CLAIM IT'S THE GREATEST TEST THEY'VE EVER USED.
7. WHAT ARE YOUR GOALS FOR THIS? IF IT'S A LEAN BULK, MIGHT I SUGGEST DROPPING SOME TREN AND ADDING MORE PRIMO? AND WHEN IT'S CONTEST TIME, UP THAT TREN AND ADD MASTERON?
Sleep you are the man. I love your advice. As I always say, you are wise beyond your years.
1. Good advice i will take it. I'll run the serostim at the end and by then I will have 2 more kits, meaning 4 kigs of serostim to blast through.
2. Yes I agree. I love the feeling of clen, but it makes me almost too cut (I am already sub 6 percent and 3 weeks out). Also, my heart as most of u know, has some issues w murmurs and palpitations.
3. So what should i do about this tiny bit of gyno that is developing under my right nipple now that the masteron is done? If no Aromasin and no masteron, then would upping my Nolva to 20 mg daily be a terrible idea?
4. I agree. Read more this morning and letro is no go.
5. Agreed. Keeping at at 12.5 after speaking on pm this morning with one of the guys who competes for real on this board and is in the pursuit of the truth himself (agenda free). I ran the 25 mcg concept tbombz presented by him and he said, for my purposes of simply creating synergy w the hgh, keep it at 12.5.
6. Yes sust is from there (: and yes, the buzz about it is correct. Even the man himself told me it is the "most special test" out there. Do not know specifically what this means but trust me when magic happens, you don't question it. This is a VERY special, very different kind of test. The fullness is absurd, yet the waist remains unaffected and somehow the prop is very very apparent in the blend which most sust or omnadren is sorely lacking. So you stay lean in the waist and full everywhere else, provided you are running the right dose and the rest of the stack is good.
Can't emphasize this enough that this sust is magic.
7. Totally good points sleep. My goals are to attain an Arnold / serge nubret type of physique. After lots of research, this was essentially their stack after 74- obviously replace tren ace w parabolan, Npp w deca. This is not 100 percent accurate, but I believe they were on these products essentially after nubret came back from Europe w the suitcases full of parabolan in 74. I want the tren ace that high because I am entering contest mode. This stack will evolve in the months to come ad I will update everyone and fill you in.
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If you don't like Arimidex you're probably not going to like Letrozole. They extremely similar, but Letro's total suppression rate is more substantial. If you are Gyno sensitive though, and you obviously know you are you're going to have to do something, especially with what you have planned. Things like caber and B-vit aren't going to protect you at all....not in this case.
All that said, with Adex or Letro, with the amount of gear you're using I see it being unlikely that any AI in a reasonable dose is going to affect you negatively in the manner you described.
If Letro is what you're thinking, you might try 0.5mg/eod and see how that works. If that's not enough, and due to the amount of gear you're using it'll be close, if Gyno symptoms start showing you'll need around 2.5mg/ed for 10-14 days. Once the symptoms fade, back it down to 1mg/ed for about 7 days and then 1mg/eod and hold there for a wk or two....you might be able to slowly ease back down even lower, but obviously 0.5mg/eod would be too low if that didn't work for you early on.
As a side note, just based on something you said and it seems to be a misconception held by a lot of the board...it as best I can tell either stems from something GH15 said incorrectly or was misinterpreted by others...one of the two. You said "even the pros occasionally up their test to 1.5-2.5 grams weekly".....my point....I know of plenty of pros who run a maintenance dose of test at 2g/wk, they don't up it to 2g....that's maintenance. Either way, that's a lot of test.
Ok this is incredible advice, thank you.
What do you think my sustanon dose should be in this case then Arnold? With the cycle I have laid out, how much sust would you suggest weekly?
I think I am going to run the Nolva at 10 mg daily through the cycle. Since I dropped masteron, I am feeling minor gyno popping up. I am a smart guy and I address things early on. Now is the time.
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i hear u brother
ok i not as advance as u but im on more than 5 year,,my advice to u is,,if u dont like aromasin ,,letro will kill u
is TOO strong,,after 2 dose my joint was hurt,,mood fuck all..no strength etc
i wouldnt take it again,,beter aromasin and looking flat imo
what about if u run 12.5mg aromasin eod? this very litle dose maybe wont flaten u
im sory for bad english
respect
madg
Good advice. Am deciding between Aromasin at 10 mg eod or nova 1g Ed, again ONLY because I am off masteron!
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I don't like Letro, it's too powerful IMO. I think it's great for pre-contest though. I don't use it so i can't really help you with a protocol, but I'm sure someone with better experience will chime in soon.
As for GH and T3; my understanding is that the high GH dose causes your thyroid to slow down and become sluggish. This is why a lot of guys recommend running 25mcg of T3 as a supplement to GH use. I have seen very little medical documentation to prove this, but i do know that my own thyroid has become rather sluggish over the past 18 months that i have been on GH. I go up to 75-100mcg of T3 when i want to cut.
I never liked clen, makes me feel wired and jittery.
This looks like a solid cycle. You are going to be a silverback gorilla.
8)
I believe the GH with T3 is all bro science. True science says T4 as you are missing that conversion step that is required from T4 from T3 while on GH.
Google it your boarding moderate. lol
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Nolva has been shown to decrease IGF..making your gh less effective..and also may cause less muscle response to hypertrophy..the stealing of gains..maybe aromisin might be better?
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True science says T4 as you are missing that conversion step that is required from T4 from T3 while on GH.
Links?
I know what you are getting at, but would rather not go off tangent with a T3/T4 conversion debate.
8)
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Nolva has been shown to decrease IGF..making your gh less effective..and also may cause less muscle response to hypertrophy..the stealing of gains..maybe aromisin might be better?
you read this on steroid.com lol ?
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Links?
I know what you are getting at, but would rather not go off tangent with a T3/T4 conversion debate.
8)
im pretty sure i remember reading something to that extent before, but the thing is, t3 is really the active hormone, t4 doesnt do much of anything... so it doesnt matter
you read this on steroid.com lol ?
its true actually.. need estrogen for gh to increase growth factors.. as far as how it affects real world results.. idk personally... but in the early 00's a guru, i think it was chad, said that one of his clients had been using nolva with his gh unkowingly.. when chad had him remkove the nolva his weight jumped something like 20lbs.. as if he had never been on gh before..
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you read this on steroid.com lol ?
If anything..i got this from your god that tipped me off about the difference..i thenlooked into some of the literature about it..gh15 claimed that nolva steals gains and in his earlier postings of getbig raved that if you had to use one, that aromasin should be used...then later he switched it to masteron.
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Ok this is incredible advice, thank you.
What do you think my sustanon dose should be in this case then Arnold? With the cycle I have laid out, how much sust would you suggest weekly?
I think I am going to run the Nolva at 10 mg daily through the cycle. Since I dropped masteron, I am feeling minor gyno popping up. I am a smart guy and I address things early on. Now is the time.
If you have some Gyno symptoms now, you need to go ahead and grab some Letro...Nolva cannot reverse these kind of symptoms...not if they're real. If that's the case, I'd jump on that 2.5mg/ed outline I gave as an example before and then go from there.
Your Sust dose may be fine as it is...it wouldn't be for me...I would crash hard with that cycle without a little more test...you might not though....I think you're right on the line. I would consider though injecting your Sust on an every other day basis though if you're not already...some might say it's bro science but it seems to help with Gyno when your doses are smaller on a per injection basis...less to aromatize on the front end. Of course, if you end up needing more and you'll know in about 3 weeks you could easily end up with daily test injections. You start getting into daily test injections of 200-250mg per day with all that other gear and you're walking into a new ballpark most never play in.
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you read this on steroid.com lol ?
You only say that because your vagina starts to bleed at the thought of anyone getting any info off of steroid.com. You know what's funny about that, about yours and GH15's hate about that website? You call it agenda driven, and corrupt, yet know nothing about it. GH15 talks about how the steroid laws of the U.S. are wrong, need to be changed, and you bash steroid.com? Really? The one website on the net that actually has a payed staff that researches every last word put on that site. Further, do you have any idea how much money they spend on steroid education...the right kind of steroid education? How much money they spend promoting positive changes, how often they are in DC or interact with those of that nature.
You guys are idiots and the 100% main reason anabolic steroids are controlled substances and why they'll always be when ignorant fools exist. You're a bigger problem then people like Dr. Gary Wadler.
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im pretty sure i remember reading something to that extent before, but the thing is, t3 is really the active hormone, t4 doesnt do much of anything... so it doesnt matter
its true actually.. need estrogen for gh to increase growth factors.. as far as how it affects real world results.. idk personally... but in the early 00's a guru, i think it was chad, said that one of his clients had been using nolva with his gh unkowingly.. when chad had him remkove the nolva his weight jumped something like 20lbs.. as if he had never been on gh before..
Yeah I don't really care about the hgh with t3 or t4 or cycle debate. The experts and one pro I have spoke to about this have said nothing about t4 and tbombz hits this on the bulls eye in that t3 is the active hormo e so please explain to me if I am missing something, but why would I take t4 instead, given that my dose is so low?
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If you have some Gyno symptoms now, you need to go ahead and grab some Letro...Nolva cannot reverse these kind of symptoms...not if they're real. If that's the case, I'd jump on that 2.5mg/ed outline I gave as an example before and then go from there.
Your Sust dose may be fine as it is...it wouldn't be for me...I would crash hard with that cycle without a little more test...you might not though....I think you're right on the line. I would consider though injecting your Sust on an every other day basis though if you're not already...some might say it's bro science but it seems to help with Gyno when your doses are smaller on a per injection basis...less to aromatize on the front end. Of course, if you end up needing more and you'll know in about 3 weeks you could easily end up with daily test injections. You start getting into daily test injections of 200-250mg per day with all that other gear and you're walking into a new ballpark most never play in.
Oh dude, totally. I am going to inject It ED. Top chef sust is HEAVY on the prop.
And here is what I feel- slightly elevated hardness under right nipple. No lumps yet. Slightly painful to touch.
I am catching this VERY early and this is basically my first time getting any gyno. I have had tingling before, but this is actually developing now.
Someone please lay out a plan for me w the letrozole. Not a preventative plan, but a short response to this gyno symptom. I want to hit it hard and make it disappear.
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Guys, everything will be pinned daily. I am heavily considering sleep's advice of dropping tren from 1400 to 700 and upping primo, however this is not certain. I personally can handle my tren and I am confident that I could even be a smooth cat on 300 mg of tren ace ED ( not sayin I would ever do this, in just saying I am a very calm, collected individual.)
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im pretty sure i remember reading something to that extent before, but the thing is, t3 is really the active hormone, t4 doesnt do much of anything... so it doesnt matter
its true actually.. need estrogen for gh to increase growth factors.. as far as how it affects real world results.. idk personally... but in the early 00's a guru, i think it was chad, said that one of his clients had been using nolva with his gh unkowingly.. when chad had him remkove the nolva his weight jumped something like 20lbs.. as if he had never been on gh before..
It wasn't the hormone as much as the conversion is what is required in your body. Let me look it up.
Growth hormone administration stimulates energy expenditure and extrathyroidal conversion of thyroxine to triiodothyronine in a dose-dependent manner and suppresses circadian thyrotrophin levels: studies in GH-deficient adults.
Jorgensen JO, Moller J, Laursen T, Orskov H, Christiansen JS, Weeke J.
Medical Department M (Endocrinology and Diabetes), Aarhus Kommunehospital, Denmark.
OBJECTIVE: The impact of exogenous GH on thyroid function remains controversial although most data add support to a stimulation of peripheral T4 to T3 conversion. For further elucidation we evaluated iodothyronine and circadian TSH levels in GH-deficient patients as part of a GH dose-response study.
PATIENTS: Eight GH-deficient adults, who received stable T4 substitution due to central hypothyroidism; two patients, who were euthyroid without T4 supplementation were studied separately.
DESIGN: All patients were initially studied after at least 4 weeks without GH followed by 3 consecutive 4-week periods in fixed order during which they received daily doses of 1, 2 and 4 IU of GH/m2 body surface area. The patients were hospitalized for 24 hours at the end of each period.
MEASUREMENTS: Circulating total and free concentrations of T4 and T3, total rT3 and TSH were measured once at the end of each study period. Circadian TSH levels were recorded during the period without GH and during GH treatment with 2 IU GH.
RESULTS: Highly significant GH dose-dependent increases in total and free T3 and a reduction in rT3 were observed. The T3/T4 ratio also increased with increasing GH dosages In seven patients subnormal T3 levels were recorded in the period off GH, despite T4 levels well within the normal range. Resting energy expenditure also increased and correlated with free T3 levels. The circadian TSH levels exhibited a significant nocturnal increase during the period without GH, whereas GH therapy significantly suppressed the TSH levels and blunted the circadian rhythm. The two euthyroid non-T4 substituted patients exhibited qualitatively similar changes in all parameters. CONCLUSIONS: GH administration stimulated peripheral T4 to T3 conversion in a dose-dependent manner. Serum T3 levels were subnormal despite T4 substitution when the patients were off GH but normalized with GH therapy. Energy expenditure increased with GH and correlated with free T3 levels. GH caused a significant blunting of serum TSH. These findings suggest that GH plays a distinct role in the physiological regulation of thyroid function in general, and of peripheral T4 metabolism in particular
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LIKE I SAID VITAMIN B6. NOT NOLVA, NOT AROMASIN, NOT ARIMIDEX, NOT LETRO. VITAMIN B6 AND MAYBE A LOW DOSE OF CABER.
THAT'LL PREVENT THE GYNO.
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LIKE I SAID VITAMIN B6. NOT NOLVA, NOT AROMASIN, NOT ARIMIDEX, NOT LETRO. VITAMIN B6 AND MAYBE A LOW DOSE OF CABER.
THAT'LL PREVENT THE GYNO.
I did not know this. Let me try this out. God I haven't been in a gnc or any supplement store for a Long time.
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I did not know this. Let me try this out. God I haven't been in a gnc or any supplement store for a Long time.
200MG-300MG A DAY. YOUR CASE I'D GO WITH LIKE 200MG A DAY WITH .5MG CABER A WEEK(.25MG TWICE A WEEK). TRY THAT OUT. CAUSE YOU ARE ON A LOT MORE PROGESTINS THEN IVE EVER SEEN. :D
ANYWAYS, THE ONLY RAVE REVIEWS IVE HEARD REGARDING A SIMILAR TEST IS DEFIANT'S TEST E. I'VE HEARD PEOPLE SAY THATS THE BEST TEST E ON THE UGL MARKET, BUT THE BEST OVERALL TEST IS THAT SUSTANON YOU GOT YOUR HANDS ON.
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I did not know this. Let me try this out. God I haven't been in a gnc or any supplement store for a Long time.
You can get B6 from walmart, target, CVS, way cheaper than a GNC that charges you $35 for Muscletech B6-ick with 456% more absorbtion that a sponge
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200MG-300MG A DAY. YOUR CASE I'D GO WITH LIKE 200MG A DAY WITH .5MG CABER A WEEK(.25MG TWICE A WEEK). TRY THAT OUT. CAUSE YOU ARE ON A LOT MORE PROGESTINS THEN IVE EVER SEEN. :D
ANYWAYS, THE ONLY RAVE REVIEWS IVE HEARD REGARDING A SIMILAR TEST IS DEFIANT'S TEST E. I'VE HEARD PEOPLE SAY THATS THE BEST TEST E ON THE UGL MARKET, BUT THE BEST OVERALL TEST IS THAT SUSTANON YOU GOT YOUR HANDS ON.
Heard same thing about defiants test although it was not specified which Esther...
But yeah I encourage anyone who is on the list to get some sust on ur next cycle despite what your previous conceptions of sust or long ester test are. There is a reason top guys have been talking about this specific blend. It's significantly better than any test I have run including human grade because there is zero bloat, c
Great fullness in the upper body, libido through the roof, and no inflation of the waist. It is like prop with insane upper body fullness and it leaves you waist alone
.
This is yet again another magic oil from the fucking man.
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All I can say is I envy you guys on that special little list ;D one day I might get lucky enough.
But back to the the cycle smooth it looks epic if I say so myself! I would agree with sleep to drop the tren down to 700 and up the primo if I was you, my reason being though I get high blood pressure from high tren (usually anything over 700 which I've only done once). But that cycle looks amazing! Keep estrogen in check and you'll be a monster. Good luck bro
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All I can say is I envy you guys on that special little list ;D one day I might get lucky enough.
But back to the the cycle smooth it looks epic if I say so myself! I would agree with sleep to drop the tren down to 700 and up the primo if I was you, my reason being though I get high blood pressure from high tren (usually anything over 700 which I've only done once). But that cycle looks amazing! Keep estrogen in check and you'll be a monster. Good luck bro
Agree . Estrogen and blood pressure are my two concerns right now. Jesus, my body is NOT happy that I dropped the masteron. It loved that shit. Gram of top chef masteron weekly did some serge nubretish things to my body in all seriousness. Fucking unhappy masteron is not a drug you can stay on for more than 6 months. God damn prostate...
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letro is harsher than arimidex. if you don't want to run an AI then cut out the test or d-bol from your cycles
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letro is harsher than arimidex. if you don't want to run an AI then cut out the test or d-bol from your cycles
simple and effective.
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Heard same thing about defiants test although it was not specified which Esther...
But yeah I encourage anyone who is on the list to get some sust on ur next cycle despite what your previous conceptions of sust or long ester test are. There is a reason top guys have been talking about this specific blend. It's significantly better than any test I have run including human grade because there is zero bloat, c
Great fullness in the upper body, libido through the roof, and no inflation of the waist. It is like prop with insane upper body fullness and it leaves you waist alone
.
This is yet again another magic oil from the fucking man.
HIS TEST E.
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Sorry smoof no time to read the whole thread... Cycle could be better tho..
I would recommend
1400mg tren
1050mg sust
1050mg primo
200mg Anadrol
15iu GH
50mcg T3
Wouldnt go any lower on the T3, even up to 75-100 if you want. I don't have time now but do some research if you can on the pathways of T3 and why/how it works as a growth factor, specifically synergistically with androgens, gh, and IGF.
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If you don't like Arimidex you're probably not going to like Letrozole. They extremely similar, but Letro's total suppression rate is more substantial. If you are Gyno sensitive though, and you obviously know you are you're going to have to do something, especially with what you have planned. Things like caber and B-vit aren't going to protect you at all....not in this case.
All that said, with Adex or Letro, with the amount of gear you're using I see it being unlikely that any AI in a reasonable dose is going to affect you negatively in the manner you described.
If Letro is what you're thinking, you might try 0.5mg/eod and see how that works. If that's not enough, and due to the amount of gear you're using it'll be close, if Gyno symptoms start showing you'll need around 2.5mg/ed for 10-14 days. Once the symptoms fade, back it down to 1mg/ed for about 7 days and then 1mg/eod and hold there for a wk or two....you might be able to slowly ease back down even lower, but obviously 0.5mg/eod would be too low if that didn't work for you early on.
As a side note, just based on something you said and it seems to be a misconception held by a lot of the board...it as best I can tell either stems from something GH15 said incorrectly or was misinterpreted by others...one of the two. You said "even the pros occasionally up their test to 1.5-2.5 grams weekly".....my point....I know of plenty of pros who run a maintenance dose of test at 2g/wk, they don't up it to 2g....that's maintenance. Either way, that's a lot of test.
Letro is super strong but it does the trick damn near everytime. Once the nipples start itching, hurting, or getting puffy. Do like AJ said and take .5mg eod. Symptoms usually dissapear within a week or two on this type of dose from almost everyone ive ever known who has used it.
But its pretty harsh so Id back down after the symptoms dissapear to .5mg every 3-5 days for about 2 weeks then just drop it until the symptoms come back if they do at all.
Do you have a history of gyno? If not I wouldnt run anything from the get go unless the nips start acting up.
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LIKE I SAID VITAMIN B6. NOT NOLVA, NOT AROMASIN, NOT ARIMIDEX, NOT LETRO. VITAMIN B6 AND MAYBE A LOW DOSE OF CABER.
THAT'LL PREVENT THE GYNO.
Would the injectable be a lot more effective?
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200MG-300MG A DAY. YOUR CASE I'D GO WITH LIKE 200MG A DAY WITH .5MG CABER A WEEK(.25MG TWICE A WEEK). TRY THAT OUT. CAUSE YOU ARE ON A LOT MORE PROGESTINS THEN IVE EVER SEEN. :D
ANYWAYS, THE ONLY RAVE REVIEWS IVE HEARD REGARDING A SIMILAR TEST IS DEFIANT'S TEST E. I'VE HEARD PEOPLE SAY THATS THE BEST TEST E ON THE UGL MARKET, BUT THE BEST OVERALL TEST IS THAT SUSTANON YOU GOT YOUR HANDS ON.
why are you guys trusting and giving your money to defiant after he sold all those bunk kigs and did nothing to try and make it right ?
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why are you guys trusting and giving your money to defiant after he sold all those bunk kigs and did nothing to try and make it right ?
HIS GEAR IS THE BEST IMO.
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smoof as a mu'fukka 8)
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smoof as a mu'fukka 8)
It sure is fuck! Smoothest gear I've ever had. Shit just looks crystal fucken clear.
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Oh dude, totally. I am going to inject It ED. Top chef sust is HEAVY on the prop.
And here is what I feel- slightly elevated hardness under right nipple. No lumps yet. Slightly painful to touch.
I am catching this VERY early and this is basically my first time getting any gyno. I have had tingling before, but this is actually developing now.
Someone please lay out a plan for me w the letrozole. Not a preventative plan, but a short response to this gyno symptom. I want to hit it hard and make it disappear.
That's exactly what I laid out. If Gyno symptoms get bad, Letro is the only thing that has a chance of fixing it...well, that and Cytadren, but you don't want to mess with Cytadren. If Gyno gets bad, Letro at 2.5-mg for 10-14 days, then start dropping down to a comfortable level.
LIKE I SAID VITAMIN B6. NOT NOLVA, NOT AROMASIN, NOT ARIMIDEX, NOT LETRO. VITAMIN B6 AND MAYBE A LOW DOSE OF CABER.
THAT'LL PREVENT THE GYNO.
With the amount of aromatazation he's going to have going on, the caber and B6 isn't going to work...it might help the prolactin issue but it's not going to combat the aromatazation.
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Sorry smoof no time to read the whole thread... Cycle could be better tho..
I would recommend
1400mg tren
1050mg sust
1050mg primo
200mg Anadrol
15iu GH
50mcg T3
Wouldnt go any lower on the T3, even up to 75-100 if you want. I don't have time now but do some research if you can on the pathways of T3 and why/how it works as a growth factor, specifically synergistically with androgens, gh, and IGF.
ok i just did research it, and i would love to hear more about this actually from you. thank you for pointing me in this direction. i actually just read two interesting studies and one article on the exact subject you just presented.
however i am still conflicted about whether or not i should run the 12.5 mg or the 75-100... two different studies have been presented in this thread, both studies back very different ideas about t3 dose while running hgh. interesting. but it leaves me not knowing what dosage to run.
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That's exactly what I laid out. If Gyno symptoms get bad, Letro is the only thing that has a chance of fixing it...well, that and Cytadren, but you don't want to mess with Cytadren. If Gyno gets bad, Letro at 2.5-mg for 10-14 days, then start dropping down to a comfortable level.
With the amount of aromatazation he's going to have going on, the caber and B6 isn't going to work...it might help the prolactin issue but it's not going to combat the aromatazation.
arnold, you definitely have laid out good points. i have gone ahead on gotten a small amount of letrozole to have on hand, and if the gyno symptoms get any worse at all, i will run it EOD for 2 weeks and hopefully it will die down.
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PS, just got back from the gym, and I worked chest and biceps.
I am relatively deep into my pre contest cut, and I bench pressed 455 today for 2 reps, and made it to the first notch on the third (so didn't really complete the third rep, although i didn't need a spotter to get it back to the first notch).
this is pretty fucking good for me considering how deep into this cut I am. Since I dropped all liquid except water, and basically transitioned into a solid food diet, I have dropped down to 220 over the weekend. I am about to drop the hgh in preparation for the contest, and then immediately re start it @ an even higher dosage a few hours after the contest is over (20 iu daily).
so i don't know how you guys feel about a 5'11.75'', 220 lb guy benching 455 for 2 clean, full reps, but i am very happy with it, especially considering that i may be a true 5% body fat now (this is the lowest bf i have ever been, and my waist is almost non existent and completely striated, and my glutes are actually shredded, as in my ass is like an anatomy chart).
this is a testament to the power of this stack, not me. i put in work, yes. but i happen to have found the magic oil.
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75-100 is a nice doseage if your cutting.
i wouldnt run that if your trying to put on size.
itll get in the way a little bit.
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75-100 is a nice doseage if your cutting.
i wouldnt run that if your trying to put on size.
itll get in the way a little bit.
i'm in full pre contest mode, i am under 3 weeks out right now.
adding in the NPP right now is VERY risky business, and if it backfires, then it backfires and i can correct it quickly because i am crafty with diuretics and water manipulation.
but i need to get a bit fuller right now. i am looking very, very lean. i am 220, but for some reason i don't feel like i look it, because i am so striated right now. i do not know if i can drop much more weight, but i am taking out the hgh now, so i may drop 5-10 lbs of water.
i also have just switched to a all solid diet, and added in some melanotan to darken up a bit before the show. i have never used pro tan in the past. i may use it this time around, may not. i get extremely, extremely dark with the aid of tanning beds.
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arnold, you definitely have laid out good points. i have gone ahead on gotten a small amount of letrozole to have on hand, and if the gyno symptoms get any worse at all, i will run it EOD for 2 weeks and hopefully it will die down.
Just keep in mind, if you let the symptoms set in, even if they're not extreme but if they're allowed to exist for a time it's going to be very difficult to get rid of them...in many cases, if this happens there is no amount of Letro in the world that will fix the problem.
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Oh dude, totally. I am going to inject It ED. Top chef sust is HEAVY on the prop.
And here is what I feel- slightly elevated hardness under right nipple. No lumps yet. Slightly painful to touch.
I am catching this VERY early and this is basically my first time getting any gyno. I have had tingling before, but this is actually developing now.
Someone please lay out a plan for me w the letrozole. Not a preventative plan, but a short response to this gyno symptom. I want to hit it hard and make it disappear.
Why does it matter how powerful letro is mg for mg? Can't you simply adjust the dose? It comes in 2.5 tabs. Half a tab 3x/wk or 2x/wk. Or every X days. Can't the dosage simply be adjusted so that some, but not all, estro is controlled. That's a lot of test. Aromatization is happening.
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LIKE I SAID VITAMIN B6. NOT NOLVA, NOT AROMASIN, NOT ARIMIDEX, NOT LETRO. VITAMIN B6 AND MAYBE A LOW DOSE OF CABER.
THAT'LL PREVENT THE GYNO.
How does B6 prevent aromatization? How much do you have to take? Any links to studies to back this up?
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How does B6 prevent aromatization? How much do you have to take? Any links to studies to back this up?
It doesn't, it helps with prolactin metabolism or something
100-600mg a day
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i'm in full pre contest mode, i am under 3 weeks out right now.
adding in the NPP right now is VERY risky business, and if it backfires, then it backfires and i can correct it quickly because i am crafty with diuretics and water manipulation.
but i need to get a bit fuller right now. i am looking very, very lean. i am 220, but for some reason i don't feel like i look it, because i am so striated right now. i do not know if i can drop much more weight, but i am taking out the hgh now, so i may drop 5-10 lbs of water.
i also have just switched to a all solid diet, and added in some melanotan to darken up a bit before the show. i have never used pro tan in the past. i may use it this time around, may not. i get extremely, extremely dark with the aid of tanning beds.
If you are that lean already, instead of adding compounds, you should do a trial run this week. Do you water manipulation and your carb up and see what you look like. I bet if you get enough food in you, you will fill right out.
Also, I talked to bboy yesterday about loading with anadrol, and he said to do it at 10 days out 100-150mg a day. If lean you will not hold water on it, it will all go into the muscle. By two weeks out you should be on some AI anyway to dry out, 2.5 letro EOD, 5 days out 2.5 ED.
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If you are cutting for a contest no npp bro it'll most likely backfire. For me at least all deca does the same...bloats me haha. Your stack you got is perfect bro! Run b6 for gyno, niacin and fish oil for cholesterol, and you're good bro! Curious why you only say 6 months on masteron too? This is my first time on it right now was running a low dose right now think I can go longer then 6?
i'm in full pre contest mode, i am under 3 weeks out right now.
adding in the NPP right now is VERY risky business, and if it backfires, then it backfires and i can correct it quickly because i am crafty with diuretics and water manipulation.
but i need to get a bit fuller right now. i am looking very, very lean. i am 220, but for some reason i don't feel like i look it, because i am so striated right now. i do not know if i can drop much more weight, but i am taking out the hgh now, so i may drop 5-10 lbs of water.
i also have just switched to a all solid diet, and added in some melanotan to darken up a bit before the show. i have never used pro tan in the past. i may use it this time around, may not. i get extremely, extremely dark with the aid of tanning beds.
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If you are cutting for a contest no npp bro it'll most likely backfire. For me at least all deca does the same...bloats me haha. Your stack you got is perfect bro! Run b6 for gyno, niacin and fish oil for cholesterol, and you're good bro! Curious why you only say 6 months on masteron too? This is my first time on it right now was running a low dose right now think I can go longer then 6?
yeah i have heard two different things in this regard.
i have heard from multiple people to drop all NPP and deca about a month out, and i have also heard that staying on a small dose like 350 is no impediment if it is short esther.
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Everybody reacts different to different compounds. I bloat like a whale on deca whether it be 250 or 1000 mg. I got a buddy who stays shredded on 750 of deca haha. It's always trial and error on your own.
yeah i have heard two different things in this regard.
i have heard from multiple people to drop all NPP and deca about a month out, and i have also heard that staying on a small dose like 350 is no impediment if it is short esther.
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Everybody reacts different to different compounds. I bloat like a whale on deca whether it be 250 or 1000 mg. I got a buddy who stays shredded on 750 of deca haha. It's always trial and error on your own.
I bloat like a water balloon on 500 mg of deca. My last cycle I got my deca from the one pharmacy is my city that makes it. So it was basically as high quality of gear as one can get.
500 mg of this shit in conjunction with some gh and old style omnadren amps turned me literally from a super cut 215-218, i mean 6%, to a bloated, moon faced 240.
The great thing is that when I switched the deca and omnadren out for tren and masteron and I still had the GH running, I stayed around 240 for a bit, but I just got extremely cut up. Then my next batch of kigtropin was bunk, and the rest is history. Back down to 220-225 almost ASAP.
NPP doesn't bloat me as badly, but the last time I ran it I ran it at a gram. This time I am running it as basically an ancillary at 350 mg per week. It is not the back bone of my cycle. The tren ace and primo are, and I would even dare to say the sustanon is because of the ridiculous hype surrounding this batch of sustanon (it truly is not like any other test, and I have years of experience- tried it all).
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I bloat like a water balloon on 500 mg of deca. My last cycle I got my deca from the one pharmacy is my city that makes it. So it was basically as high quality of gear as one can get.
500 mg of this shit in conjunction with some gh and old style omnadren amps turned me literally from a super cut 215-218, i mean 6%, to a bloated, moon faced 240.
The great thing is that when I switched the deca and omnadren out for tren and masteron and I still had the GH running, I stayed around 240 for a bit, but I just got extremely cut up. Then my next batch of kigtropin was bunk, and the rest is history. Back down to 220-225 almost ASAP.
NPP doesn't bloat me as badly, but the last time I ran it I ran it at a gram. This time I am running it as basically an ancillary at 350 mg per week. It is not the back bone of my cycle. The tren ace and primo are, and I would even dare to say the sustanon is because of the ridiculous hype surrounding this batch of sustanon (it truly is not like any other test, and I have years of experience- tried it all).
Where do I find thus magic sust that we speak of ;D
Yea I did a 750 deca cycle with a gram of pharmacy test and I looked like pot belly pig I got so bloated! Now my staples are masteron, tren, prop, and eq. Getting some primo coming soon cause I've heard nothing but the magic at 700+ so I'm going for it bro
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What exactly is so different about this sustanon bro. I've always really like sustanon. I actually stay fuller but learner at the same time from it. I have only used human grade though. Does this have more prop in it. Is everything else the same
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Can you tell us what the blend of the sust contains smooth? Thanks bro
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What exactly is so different about this sustanon bro. I've always really like sustanon. I actually stay fuller but learner at the same time from it. I have only used human grade though. Does this have more prop in it. Is everything else the same
my assumption? since he is known to cram more mg/ml in his oils than anyone else in the world, and not make it sting, i think the prop is jacked way the fuck up, and everything else remains constant, leaving it at something more like 400 mg/ml than the advertised 350mg/ml. also his powders are simply better than most. and the production is literally the best since some very very famous UGLs from a decade ago.
I am not getting into anymore details as to not let information slip that i should not
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just curiosity
talk about your diet to get this 5%, its not all about drugs
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just curiosity
talk about your diet to get this 5%, its not all about drugs
Ya I would love to hear this. A lot of hard work must go into it.
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just curiosity
talk about your diet to get this 5%, its not all about drugs
you are 100% right, and i have vehemently stood by my claim that you can not eat ALL dirty just because you are on GH, and you can not do NO cardio, just because you are on tren ace.
this community often likes to think in black and whites. we are the extreme, yes. but we also must use our common sense. allow me to explain why a grey area can benefit you more than black and white thinking.
CARDIO
if arnold and franco did a minimum of 30 minutes of cardio daily, and preferred to do 60 minutes, and if flex wheeler does 2 and a half HOURS every day, and if jay cutler does 45 minutes in each training session, then what makes us think that we can get away with no cardio whatsoever? it is good for your heart, and frankly it makes your body look better even during a bulking period or a mutation.
i do 30 minutes of cardio daily. sometimes i do 15, but most days i do 30 minutes. it is not that intense, and generally i will burn off 400-500 calories, and just get a sweat. i opt to use the elliptical, the bike or the stair master, because I'm now too heavy to run for that amount of time and not injure my knee. i used to be a true athlete at one point. i played at the highest level of collegiate sport for one year before an incident i will not discuss here. back then at 195 i could run all day. still hormonized, yes, but not on the compounds i am on now, not with the muscle maturity i have now... big difference between me at 17 and me now in my mid 20s.
but i have ALWAYS done cardio, that is my point. I am genetically lean, a true mesomorph, but cardio has helped me stay this lean. if i did no cardio, i would venture to guess i would be 250 lbs now and a higher bf, maybe 10%. but i do cardio every single day. and i am EXTREMELY happy to be 222 lb @ 5% right now. I would take this ANY day of the week over 250 @ 11%. i am all about graininess and hardness and i HATE bloofiness, and always have. There is no fucking point to be a bloof. Bloofs often try to compete with me in the gym, show me their big 315 lb bench press. i rarely flat bench, but i did have a situation like this earlier in the week, and was with a friend who was taking pictures, and i had a lot of people watching me workout due to the weight i was throwing around. i do not flat bench period, but i know what i am capable of. so i let my ego get the best of me, and thankfully i did not get injured, because i benched 455 (4 45 lb plates on each side of the bar and 1 25 lb plate on each side too) for 2 reps with no spot, clean and slow, and i almost made it to the top notch on the 3rd rep by myself. i am EXTREMELY happy with that considering how low my bf is right now. 455 may not sound impressive to some of you serious bodybuilders here, but realize i am basically completely built on AAS and years of hard work, with minimal GH and no slin.
DIET
sample diet, 2 days ago:
7am- 1.5 cups of oatmeal boiled in non fat milk (this makes a HUGE amount of oatmeal)
6 egg whites, 2 eggs, scrambled in a bit of oil.
16 oz of black coffee
10 iu of GH
9am
1 scoop whey in water (i am at work by this time. i have no option but to use whey. i can not chug egg whites here)
noon
14 oz cooked up chicken, 1 cup of brown rice, vegetables, bit of sour cream, bit of hot sauce, pineapple juice
2pm
1 scoop of whey in water
4pm
roughly 6 "servings" of almonds, which is a huge amount. not salted, just pure, natural almonds. glass of non fat milk. shot of espresso.
7pm
12 oz steak with brown rice. 30 oz of non fat milk.
anadrol.
9:30-11pm
TRAINING
11pm
2 scoops of whey with almond milk, natural peanut butter and a bunch of other stuff from the juice bar in my gym.. comes out to roughly 90 grams of protein.
midnight
vanilla ice cream. not too much. glass of non fat milk.
10 iu of GH .
bed time.
Many days I will eat huge amounts of fish, and oats or brown rice. The amount of tilapia or salmon i cook and eat is insane. Other days it is chicken and brown rice. Other days it is red meat. I depend heavily on meats and oats and brown rice and eggs, non fat milk and yes, whey protein. I unfortunately have to do the whey protein because it is quick, clean and easy, and now I have to be serious about my job (i used to a phd student as of 2 months ago and was only working part time, now i have a kid coming, and i have deferred school indefinitely and due to how much education i have, it was actually very easy to find a good job, and start immediately).
Also I have MULTIPLE cheat meals a week, but I will NEVER eat at a place like mcdonalds. I will cheat with pizza or subway, I will eat some chocolate cake w 1000 calories or something absurd like that, and I do this probably 10 times a week. But for the majority of the meals I am eating "clean". But I don't see what is wrong with 12-16 oz of meat with brown rice. That is the fucking best meal a guy can ask for. Add in some sour cream and hot sauce, and that is just pure decadence to me.
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You ever run stairs for cardio? I run up and down my stairs 100 times. Takes 30 minutes at the most. By the end I'm completely drenched in sweat. Makes you run on your toes to and really builds up the calves. It's great because you can get it over with so quick since you can do it right at home if you have a set of stairs. You can also do it with lighter dumbells in your hands.
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what a big reply :P
very detailed.. and without gh you dont make so much cheat meals right??
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This cat "gets it".
Wonderful information presented here.
Nice to see some thought behind what you do and you look the part to back it up.
I have always believed in eating clean(more or less) for more than one reason and my diet is very similar to yours except i eat cereal before bed instead of ice cream.
8)
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Smoof, no shit that is probably the best post I've ever read on getbig. better than all the drug shit combined.
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You ever run stairs for cardio? I run up and down my stairs 100 times. Takes 30 minutes at the most. By the end I'm completely drenched in sweat. Makes you run on your toes to and really builds up the calves. It's great because you can get it over with so quick since you can do it right at home if you have a set of stairs. You can also do it with lighter dumbells in your hands.
McGrath swears by stairs for cardio (actual stairs not stair master).
I LOVE doing this. Also this gets that lovely burn in your lower abs , like when you go all out on high incline elliptical...
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McGrath swears by stairs for cardio (actual stairs not stair master).
I LOVE doing this. Also this gets that lovely burn in your lower abs , like when you go all out on high incline elliptical...
Nothing beats actual stairs man give it a shot sometime. When I'm done with the 100 reps. I put my hands on the fifth step and do alternating mountain climber on the third or fourth step. Like 30 reps 3-4 sets. You will be athletic again after a few weeks of that trust me.
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you are 100% right, and i have vehemently stood by my claim that you can not eat ALL dirty just because you are on GH, and you can not do NO cardio, just because you are on tren ace.
this community often likes to think in black and whites. we are the extreme, yes. but we also must use our common sense. allow me to explain why a grey area can benefit you more than black and white thinking.
CARDIO
if arnold and franco did a minimum of 30 minutes of cardio daily, and preferred to do 60 minutes, and if flex wheeler does 2 and a half HOURS every day, and if jay cutler does 45 minutes in each training session, then what makes us think that we can get away with no cardio whatsoever? it is good for your heart, and frankly it makes your body look better even during a bulking period or a mutation.
i do 30 minutes of cardio daily. sometimes i do 15, but most days i do 30 minutes. it is not that intense, and generally i will burn off 400-500 calories, and just get a sweat. i opt to use the elliptical, the bike or the stair master, because I'm now too heavy to run for that amount of time and not injure my knee. i used to be a true athlete at one point. i played at the highest level of collegiate sport for one year before an incident i will not discuss here. back then at 195 i could run all day. still hormonized, yes, but not on the compounds i am on now, not with the muscle maturity i have now... big difference between me at 17 and me now in my mid 20s.
but i have ALWAYS done cardio, that is my point. I am genetically lean, a true mesomorph, but cardio has helped me stay this lean. if i did no cardio, i would venture to guess i would be 250 lbs now and a higher bf, maybe 10%. but i do cardio every single day. and i am EXTREMELY happy to be 222 lb @ 5% right now. I would take this ANY day of the week over 250 @ 11%. i am all about graininess and hardness and i HATE bloofiness, and always have. There is no fucking point to be a bloof. Bloofs often try to compete with me in the gym, show me their big 315 lb bench press. i rarely flat bench, but i did have a situation like this earlier in the week, and was with a friend who was taking pictures, and i had a lot of people watching me workout due to the weight i was throwing around. i do not flat bench period, but i know what i am capable of. so i let my ego get the best of me, and thankfully i did not get injured, because i benched 455 (4 45 lb plates on each side of the bar and 1 25 lb plate on each side too) for 2 reps with no spot, clean and slow, and i almost made it to the top notch on the 3rd rep by myself. i am EXTREMELY happy with that considering how low my bf is right now. 455 may not sound impressive to some of you serious bodybuilders here, but realize i am basically completely built on AAS and years of hard work, with minimal GH and no slin.
DIET
sample diet, 2 days ago:
7am- 1.5 cups of oatmeal boiled in non fat milk (this makes a HUGE amount of oatmeal)
6 egg whites, 2 eggs, scrambled in a bit of oil.
16 oz of black coffee
10 iu of GH
9am
1 scoop whey in water (i am at work by this time. i have no option but to use whey. i can not chug egg whites here)
noon
14 oz cooked up chicken, 1 cup of brown rice, vegetables, bit of sour cream, bit of hot sauce, pineapple juice
2pm
1 scoop of whey in water
4pm
roughly 6 "servings" of almonds, which is a huge amount. not salted, just pure, natural almonds. glass of non fat milk. shot of espresso.
7pm
12 oz steak with brown rice. 30 oz of non fat milk.
anadrol.
9:30-11pm
TRAINING
11pm
2 scoops of whey with almond milk, natural peanut butter and a bunch of other stuff from the juice bar in my gym.. comes out to roughly 90 grams of protein.
midnight
vanilla ice cream. not too much. glass of non fat milk.
10 iu of GH .
bed time.
Many days I will eat huge amounts of fish, and oats or brown rice. The amount of tilapia or salmon i cook and eat is insane. Other days it is chicken and brown rice. Other days it is red meat. I depend heavily on meats and oats and brown rice and eggs, non fat milk and yes, whey protein. I unfortunately have to do the whey protein because it is quick, clean and easy, and now I have to be serious about my job (i used to a phd student as of 2 months ago and was only working part time, now i have a kid coming, and i have deferred school indefinitely and due to how much education i have, it was actually very easy to find a good job, and start immediately).
Also I have MULTIPLE cheat meals a week, but I will NEVER eat at a place like mcdonalds. I will cheat with pizza or subway, I will eat some chocolate cake w 1000 calories or something absurd like that, and I do this probably 10 times a week. But for the majority of the meals I am eating "clean". But I don't see what is wrong with 12-16 oz of meat with brown rice. That is the fucking best meal a guy can ask for. Add in some sour cream and hot sauce, and that is just pure decadence to me.
Great post man!!!
It's funny that you made this thread, I'm going to forward it to two of my competitors. Early this wk I was getting on both of them for slacking on their cardio and I actually said if Ronnie Coleman has to do it what makes you think you're special? Spot on man!
The idea that cardio is going to hurt your gains and progress is retarded....people assume they'll lose a bunch of muscle when dieting or won't gain as much in the off-season...again, it's retarded. If you're taking hormones, this isn't going to happen, not in any case.
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Nothing beats actual stairs man give it a shot sometime. When I'm done with the 100 reps. I put my hands on the fifth step and do alternating mountain climber on the third or fourth step. Like 30 reps 3-4 sets. You will be athletic again after a few weeks of that trust me.
Nobody asked me, may I interject?....ok thanks ;D
I run stadium steps two to three times per week.
100% effort for 15 minutes. Exhausted. I make strange noises from the agony when i get to the top.....FEEL LIKE A KING!
Hardens the WHOLE BODY, especially legs.
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you are 100% right, and i have vehemently stood by my claim that you can not eat ALL dirty just because you are on GH, and you can not do NO cardio, just because you are on tren ace.
this community often likes to think in black and whites. we are the extreme, yes. but we also must use our common sense. allow me to explain why a grey area can benefit you more than black and white thinking.
CARDIO
if arnold and franco did a minimum of 30 minutes of cardio daily, and preferred to do 60 minutes, and if flex wheeler does 2 and a half HOURS every day, and if jay cutler does 45 minutes in each training session, then what makes us think that we can get away with no cardio whatsoever? it is good for your heart, and frankly it makes your body look better even during a bulking period or a mutation.
i do 30 minutes of cardio daily. sometimes i do 15, but most days i do 30 minutes. it is not that intense, and generally i will burn off 400-500 calories, and just get a sweat. i opt to use the elliptical, the bike or the stair master, because I'm now too heavy to run for that amount of time and not injure my knee. i used to be a true athlete at one point. i played at the highest level of collegiate sport for one year before an incident i will not discuss here. back then at 195 i could run all day. still hormonized, yes, but not on the compounds i am on now, not with the muscle maturity i have now... big difference between me at 17 and me now in my mid 20s.
but i have ALWAYS done cardio, that is my point. I am genetically lean, a true mesomorph, but cardio has helped me stay this lean. if i did no cardio, i would venture to guess i would be 250 lbs now and a higher bf, maybe 10%. but i do cardio every single day. and i am EXTREMELY happy to be 222 lb @ 5% right now. I would take this ANY day of the week over 250 @ 11%. i am all about graininess and hardness and i HATE bloofiness, and always have. There is no fucking point to be a bloof. Bloofs often try to compete with me in the gym, show me their big 315 lb bench press. i rarely flat bench, but i did have a situation like this earlier in the week, and was with a friend who was taking pictures, and i had a lot of people watching me workout due to the weight i was throwing around. i do not flat bench period, but i know what i am capable of. so i let my ego get the best of me, and thankfully i did not get injured, because i benched 455 (4 45 lb plates on each side of the bar and 1 25 lb plate on each side too) for 2 reps with no spot, clean and slow, and i almost made it to the top notch on the 3rd rep by myself. i am EXTREMELY happy with that considering how low my bf is right now. 455 may not sound impressive to some of you serious bodybuilders here, but realize i am basically completely built on AAS and years of hard work, with minimal GH and no slin.
DIET
sample diet, 2 days ago:
7am- 1.5 cups of oatmeal boiled in non fat milk (this makes a HUGE amount of oatmeal)
6 egg whites, 2 eggs, scrambled in a bit of oil.
16 oz of black coffee
10 iu of GH
9am
1 scoop whey in water (i am at work by this time. i have no option but to use whey. i can not chug egg whites here)
noon
14 oz cooked up chicken, 1 cup of brown rice, vegetables, bit of sour cream, bit of hot sauce, pineapple juice
2pm
1 scoop of whey in water
4pm
roughly 6 "servings" of almonds, which is a huge amount. not salted, just pure, natural almonds. glass of non fat milk. shot of espresso.
7pm
12 oz steak with brown rice. 30 oz of non fat milk.
anadrol.
9:30-11pm
TRAINING
11pm
2 scoops of whey with almond milk, natural peanut butter and a bunch of other stuff from the juice bar in my gym.. comes out to roughly 90 grams of protein.
midnight
vanilla ice cream. not too much. glass of non fat milk.
10 iu of GH .
bed time.
Many days I will eat huge amounts of fish, and oats or brown rice. The amount of tilapia or salmon i cook and eat is insane. Other days it is chicken and brown rice. Other days it is red meat. I depend heavily on meats and oats and brown rice and eggs, non fat milk and yes, whey protein. I unfortunately have to do the whey protein because it is quick, clean and easy, and now I have to be serious about my job (i used to a phd student as of 2 months ago and was only working part time, now i have a kid coming, and i have deferred school indefinitely and due to how much education i have, it was actually very easy to find a good job, and start immediately).
Also I have MULTIPLE cheat meals a week, but I will NEVER eat at a place like mcdonalds. I will cheat with pizza or subway, I will eat some chocolate cake w 1000 calories or something absurd like that, and I do this probably 10 times a week. But for the majority of the meals I am eating "clean". But I don't see what is wrong with 12-16 oz of meat with brown rice. That is the fucking best meal a guy can ask for. Add in some sour cream and hot sauce, and that is just pure decadence to me.
Great post!
Can you tell us, if you know it offhand, the macros you used above? I find as I get older the way more strict and carb attentive I have to be.
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Great post!
Can you tell us, if you know it offhand, the macros you used above? I find as I get older the way more strict and carb attentive I have to be.
i don't know anything about macros. i go by feel. never have counted a carb in my life.
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I CAN BE VERY SPECIFIC WITH DIET. MY GAMEPLAN REVOLVES AROUND MY DIET, I'M THAT PRONE TO THE WATERY LOOK.
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i don't know anything about macros. i go by feel. never have counted a carb in my life.
lucky man! lol I need to so I can make the proper adjustments.
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lucky man! lol I need to so I can make the proper adjustments.
i don't understand. what kind of stack are you on? i don't think people are understanding me. if you are on 100 mg of tren ace daily or more, along with other AAS, and you are doing 30 minute of cardio a day like i do, you absolutely don't need to count macros.
you just go by the mirror. and the mirror at times says you are getting TOO ripped, and to eat something dirty to counteract dipping below an already non existent waist.
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How will you approach the last few weeks with nutrition for competition? Sounds like your a "feel it out" type guy with prep, but will you likely cut out all cheat meals towards the end? Maybe leave a few in there depending how full or flat? You sound pretty lean now so obviously what your doing is working. I just know going from that 5-4 can be a little tricky.
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i don't understand. what kind of stack are you on? i don't think people are understanding me. if you are on 100 mg of tren ace daily or more, along with other AAS, and you are doing 30 minute of cardio a day like i do, you absolutely don't need to count macros.
you just go by the mirror. and the mirror at times says you are getting TOO ripped, and to eat something dirty to counteract dipping below an already non existent waist.
I find that the older I get, the more I design my cycles around the least amount of pinning I do. I don;t know how, but I have an insane amount of scar tissue built in my glutes. Some spots I literally can not push any oil in. In different spots it will take a full 3-5 mins to inject 3ccs. It's quite literally, a pain in the ass.
With using such voluminous amounts of injections, can you actually lay out your injecting protocol? I wan to run heavier cycles but The only viable places are now my delts and the lucky spots of my glutes (no homo). Shooting short esters into my quads cripples me. If you could putline where and when, and also how much you inject, it would be very much appreciated!
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I find that the older I get, the more I design my cycles around the least amount of pinning I do. I don;t know how, but I have an insane amount of scar tissue built in my glutes. Some spots I literally can not push any oil in. In different spots it will take a full 3-5 mins to inject 3ccs. It's quite literally, a pain in the ass.
With using such voluminous amounts of injections, can you actually lay out your injecting protocol? I wan to run heavier cycles but The only viable places are now my delts and the lucky spots of my glutes (no homo). Shooting short esters into my quads cripples me. If you could putline where and when, and also how much you inject, it would be very much appreciated!
That's starting to become a problem for me to. I hit the same spots everytime. High corners of the glutes. I'm rapidly building up scar tissue especially over the last year. I inject eod even with long esters. Helps keep bloat down I noticed. Right now I have a pocket filled up with oil. Almost like a knot. I put two and half cc's of test and primo into scar tissue. It's taking awhile to absorb.
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i dunno why people don't rotate injection sites. it actually makes your arms look better if you do it right because the oil gives your biceps/tris more of a pop.
also, there's always sub-q
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That's starting to become a problem for me to. I hit the same spots everytime. High corners of the glutes. I'm rapidly building up scar tissue especially over the last year. I inject eod even with long esters. Helps keep bloat down I noticed. Right now I have a pocket filled up with oil. Almost like a knot. I put two and half cc's of test and primo into scar tissue. It's taking awhile to absorb.
how do you plan on dealing with this? do massages loosen up the tissue? think about it, you're going to be on at least test for the rest of ur life so plan it out now.... ive always wondered this with pros, they never come off and for close to 6 months out of the year they are injecting ED and most ONLY shoot steroids in their glutes contrary to popular beliefs.
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i dunno why people don't rotate injection sites. it actually makes your arms look better if you do it right because the oil gives your biceps/tris more of a pop.
also, there's always sub-q
I actually always rotate my glutes, delts, and sometimes quads. For some reason, my glutes have taken the most damage by far.
I wasn't aware of going sub-q with oils. Is this something you do yourself?
I was always too scared to try my bis and tris. I'm guessing you shouldn't go more than 1cc? I've shot 3ccs in my delts before with no problems, so I guess you could do more in the bis/tris.
Thanks bro.
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Everytime I try doing a delt shot or something it gets painful as fuck for 2-3 days.
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I shoot ED year round.
I am not always on AAS, but I use oil based antioxidants and other supplements that require IM injection.
Sites started turning into scar tissue badly, so I started getting creative with site rotation.....
pecs, bi's, calves, glutes, hip, quads (in parts that you typically don't shoot into), rear delts, and side delts.
I tried Tri's and it just hurt badly every time, must be too many nerves there. I hear a guy has atrophy of his
tri from site injecting there and hitting a nerve, so I just stay away.
One thing I noticed lately is that there seems to be less scar tissue. What I changed was mixing my shots with
curcumin (the supplement). I don't know how or why, but it makes everything go in smoother and that site won't
have that crackle and popping the next time I got to shoot into it.
Curcumin is said to repair muscle damage, so that has got to be what is going on. Most people take it orally, and
they say bioavailability is very poor. Shooting it IM with AAS might cause some healing as the depot dissipates.
Another one that helps reduce scar tissue is Lipostabil Choline. I recently ran out of that and no longer have a source
for it, I am a little disappointed. Not only does it reduce scar tissue, it burns fat and fixes cholesterol.
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I've only pinned each of my glutes once in my whole juicing life.
I do ED shots most of the time with tren and prop. Right now just M-W-F Prop and EQ. I stick to front/side/rear delts, biceps, quads(all up and down the sweep, lots of spots). I've done everything except calves and hams and these are my favourite spots, plenty of rotation here.
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Thanks for the info guys!
I need to start focusing on my quads more. I had one bad experience where my knee swelled up to the size of a basketball and it has scared me ever since.
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I actually always rotate my glutes, delts, and sometimes quads. For some reason, my glutes have taken the most damage by far.
I wasn't aware of going sub-q with oils. Is this something you do yourself?
I was always too scared to try my bis and tris. I'm guessing you shouldn't go more than 1cc? I've shot 3ccs in my delts before with no problems, so I guess you could do more in the bis/tris.
Thanks bro.
yeah, i do sub-q. depending on bodyfat levels, it's very easy. upper quad, side of glute and upper glute/back tie-in have a lot of fat there. i do sub-q injections with everything but test perfectly fine. with test it felt like i was getting gyno flare ups which is pretty rare for me with test.
tris can hold 1 cc of oil easily, long head is easiest way to do it. biceps can get a little sore when using 1cc but depends a lot on what oil is used. never get any pain from EQ/nandro
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I've only pinned each of my glutes once in my whole juicing life.
I do ED shots most of the time with tren and prop. Right now just M-W-F Prop and EQ. I stick to front/side/rear delts, biceps, quads(all up and down the sweep, lots of spots). I've done everything except calves and hams and these are my favourite spots, plenty of rotation here.
calves are the fucking worst. everything hurts when injecting into calves. never tried hamstrings, kept hitting too many veins so i didn't bother.
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Anyone that injects calves has to be nuts.
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Thanks for the info guys!
I need to start focusing on my quads more. I had one bad experience where my knee swelled up to the size of a basketball and it has scared me ever since.
they're my fav honestly. so big and easy to pin. go in slowly, inject very slowly and rotate the sites on your quads. ie: don't fucking pin the same damn spot over and over. i never have problems doin it this way. trial and error though, believe me when i first started pinning quads id go in fast, hit a nerve fuckin inject fast walk around feelin crippled lol... quads arent delts you gotta treat em with care
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I've never had a problem with quad injections, maybe I'm doing it wrong? ???
;D
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I've hit everything but quads hams and calves, biceps get some pain when holding oil but Delta can hold a ton, there's days where ill pin oil and growth in both delts pain free
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Anyone that injects calves has to be nuts.
whats so hard about delts, ass, quads, traps, start over.
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whats so hard about delts, ass, quads, traps, start over.
Was it uncomfortable to pin traps your first time?
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Was it uncomfortable to pin traps your first time?
Uncomfortable because i can't do shit with my left hand and injecting my right trap was difficult plus i have to use a mirror. Not specially painful. I wouldn't inject winstrol in the traps though. But oils yep.