UPDATED SmoofCat mutation cycle. Please advise and answer the questions i have.

[SmoofCat]

Thank you all so much for helping me critique the cycle through the last week. I have been very absent from the boards this weekend, because  my pregnant girlfriend moved into my house. I have my blood pressure issues under control entirely since I started the propanolol, and I firmly believe that my blood pressure was not as much affected by the tren ace as it was by the t3/clen. With that in mind, I am dropping the clen. Please review and critique my cycle. It will last 6 months.

1400 mg tren ace weekly
700 mg primo weekly
700 mg NPP weekly
1 gram of sustanon weekly
15 iu daily of hgh
12.5 mcg of t3, to combo with the gh
20 mg of proviron daily
50 mg of injectable anadrol daily


notes
1. i just got my hands on two kits of serostim, so i am currently running it at 15 iu daily until it runs out, and then am going right back to my blue tops. i am pretty psyched about it. today was the my first day on the serostim, and i ran a full 15 iu, and i have eaten everything i can get my sight on today, had one of the best workouts of my life, and i am about to get the best nights sleep of my life. too bad i only have 2 kits and they will last me under a month.

2. the reason i am running a gram of sustanon weekly is because this is now a heavy cycle, and i am taking 15 iu of serostim daily, and will be taking 15-20 iu of blue tops when the serostim is through. my body is primed to take advantage of the testosterone, and with this much tren ace, primo and npp, i do not think a gram will hurt me. even the pros occasionally up their test to 1.5-2.5 grams weekly. i have been running almost no test for so long, and i think for this upcoming cycle i want to re introduce a higher dose. Also, I am going with sustanon because it is my favorite test, even over prop.

questions:
1. Since I am taking a 6 month break from masteron, because I have been on it for so long, what is a good way to prevent gyno? I really do not want to run arimidex anymore for multiple reasons, and nolvadex does not do the trick. What dosage of letrozole is a good one to run? And would letrozole be good, or does it have negative side affects like arimidex does? The reason I ask about this is because this is going to be the heaviest cycle I have ever run. And in the past, I have relied on either masteron or arimidex for gyno prevention. And I know when I run neither, I do develop very small lumps under my right nipple. So please advise me on a specific protocol for an alternative to arimidex and masteron for gyno prevention, and let me know if letrozole will work. Please be specific.

2. What is everyone's opinion of t3? Does it make sense to run it at this low of a dose? I was specifically told from one of my friends who is qualified for nationals and runs 12 iu daily of pharmacy grade and 6 gram cycles that t3 is extremely important when running this much HGH. I looked for information on this online, and found a bunch of bullshit on other boards that makes no sense. Give it to me straight. Why does t3 help with hgh, and how much should I run daily? Is 12.5 mcg too little or ok (this dose was advised)? I have run t3 with clen in the past to prep for a photo shoot, but i frankly did not know what i was doing back then, and i was not on hgh.

[tbombz]

HRT doseage for t3 is around 25mcg per day. id go with that number. t3 has a sensitive absorption rate, ull will average ~50% or less absorption if taken with food or nutrients..     when taken on an empty stomach, no food for 4 hours before or 1 hour later, water only.. absorption will hover around 90%..

[madg]

i love t3 with my 10 iu gh,,slinpimp  introduced me to it,,it keep the bloat away and u have more energy through day,,,i really like t3 with my gh


cycle look good smoof,,,15 iu serostim???u lucky bastard!!1

p.s i have aranged 5 kit of lily humatrope for summer,,this serostim equivalent for us euro guys


p.s2 have u try aromasin for estro?i not liek letro man it eliminate to much estro,,i feel liek weak bitch on it,,,dunno why

[nosleep]

Thank you all so much for helping me critique the cycle through the last week. I have been very absent from the boards this weekend, because  my pregnant girlfriend moved into my house. I have my blood pressure issues under control entirely since I started the propanolol, and I firmly believe that my blood pressure was not as much affected by the tren ace as it was by the t3/clen. With that in mind, I am dropping the clen. Please review and critique my cycle. It will last 6 months.

1400 mg tren ace weekly
700 mg primo weekly
700 mg NPP weekly
1 gram of sustanon weekly
15 iu daily of hgh
12.5 mcg of t3, to combo with the gh
20 mg of proviron daily
50 mg of injectable anadrol daily


notes
1. i just got my hands on two kits of serostim, so i am currently running it at 15 iu daily until it runs out, and then am going right back to my blue tops. i am pretty psyched about it. today was the my first day on the serostim, and i ran a full 15 iu, and i have eaten everything i can get my sight on today, had one of the best workouts of my life, and i am about to get the best nights sleep of my life. too bad i only have 2 kits and they will last me under a month.

2. the reason i am running a gram of sustanon weekly is because this is now a heavy cycle, and i am taking 15 iu of serostim daily, and will be taking 15-20 iu of blue tops when the serostim is through. my body is primed to take advantage of the testosterone, and with this much tren ace, primo and npp, i do not think a gram will hurt me. even the pros occasionally up their test to 1.5-2.5 grams weekly. i have been running almost no test for so long, and i think for this upcoming cycle i want to re introduce a higher dose. Also, I am going with sustanon because it is my favorite test, even over prop.

questions:
1. Since I am taking a 6 month break from masteron, because I have been on it for so long, what is a good way to prevent gyno? I really do not want to run arimidex anymore for multiple reasons, and nolvadex does not do the trick. What dosage of letrozole is a good one to run? And would letrozole be good, or does it have negative side affects like arimidex does? The reason I ask about this is because this is going to be the heaviest cycle I have ever run. And in the past, I have relied on either masteron or arimidex for gyno prevention. And I know when I run neither, I do develop very small lumps under my right nipple. So please advise me on a specific protocol for an alternative to arimidex and masteron for gyno prevention, and let me know if letrozole will work. Please be specific.

2. What is everyone's opinion of t3? Does it make sense to run it at this low of a dose? I was specifically told from one of my friends who is qualified for nationals and runs 12 iu daily of pharmacy grade and 6 gram cycles that t3 is extremely important when running this much HGH. I looked for information on this online, and found a bunch of bullshit on other boards that makes no sense. Give it to me straight. Why does t3 help with hgh, and how much should I run daily? Is 12.5 mcg too little or ok (this dose was advised)? I have run t3 with clen in the past to prep for a photo shoot, but i frankly did not know what i was doing back then, and i was not on hgh.

IM NOT AS EXPERIENCED AS YOU, BUT HERE'S MY TAKES.

1. SEROSTIM, USE THE FINAL DAYS OF THE 15IU. IMAGINE GOING FROM SERO TO GENERIC BLUE TOP, THAT'S LIKE 20IU TO 12 IU. YOU'LL NOTICE THAT. START BLUE TOPS, THEN FINAL TOUCHES IS SEROSTIM.

2. GREAT JOB DROPPING CLEN. NO CLEN.

3. PROLACTIN WISE, ID SUGGEST ABOUT 300MG VITAMIN B6, NO CABER. ID SAY USUALLY 100-200 B6 BUT YOU GOT 2.1G OF THE MOST POTENT GYNO THINGS AND THEN A LOT OF FLUCTUATING TEST. 300MG WILL DO YOU FINE. PERHAPS EVEN A LOW DOSE CABER, MAYBE. LIKE .25MG CABER TWICE A WEEK AND 200MG VITAMIN B6 NIGHTLY.

4. DONT USE LETRO UNTIL PRE-COMP AND THE FINAL DAYS OUT. AVOID AI/AE'S EXCEPT PROVI & MAST AND SINCE U TOOK EM OUT, VITAMIN B6 OR LOW DOSE CABER/VITAMIN B6.

5. 12.5MCG T3 IS GOOD.

6. THAT SUST FROM WHERE I THINK IT IS? I HAVEN'T SEEN AN UG TEST MORE RAVED ABOUT, AND I KNOW MANY(ABOUT 10) PEOPLE THAT CLAIM IT'S THE GREATEST TEST THEY'VE EVER USED.

7. WHAT ARE YOUR GOALS FOR THIS? IF IT'S A LEAN BULK, MIGHT I SUGGEST DROPPING SOME TREN AND ADDING MORE PRIMO? AND WHEN IT'S CONTEST TIME, UP THAT TREN AND ADD MASTERON?

[SmoofCat]

HRT doseage for t3 is around 25mcg per day. id go with that number. t3 has a sensitive absorption rate, ull will average ~50% or less absorption if taken with food or nutrients..     when taken on an empty stomach, no food for 4 hours before or 1 hour later, water only.. absorption will hover around 90%..

Ok good advice thanks. Will definitely do this.

[SmoofCat]

i love t3 with my 10 iu gh,,slinpimp  introduced me to it,,it keep the bloat away and u have more energy through day,,,i really like t3 with my gh


cycle look good smoof,,,15 iu serostim???u lucky bastard!!1

p.s i have aranged 5 kit of lily humatrope for summer,,this serostim equivalent for us euro guys


p.s2 have u try aromasin for estro?i not liek letro man it eliminate to much estro,,i feel liek weak bitch on it,,,dunno why

Only 2 kits though, and the way I ran into them this Saturday was totally random. My guy who usually is a 2.5-3 hour drive away happened to be at my gym on Saturday training with a mutual friend. The rest of
The story writes itself

[SmoofCat]

i love t3 with my 10 iu gh,,slinpimp  introduced me to it,,it keep the bloat away and u have more energy through day,,,i really like t3 with my gh


cycle look good smoof,,,15 iu serostim???u lucky bastard!!1

p.s i have aranged 5 kit of lily humatrope for summer,,this serostim equivalent for us euro guys


p.s2 have u try aromasin for estro?i not liek letro man it eliminate to much estro,,i feel liek weak bitch on it,,,dunno why

I can't use aromas in or arimidex etc etc makes me flat and weak

[El Diablo Blanco]

I don't get it.  Didn't you post about kigs that you were on 5IU and tried 10IU and couldn't handle it and now all of a sudden you're on 15IU or REAL pharma GH and you are fine?

[SamsonD]

How much are you going to have to eat on that much tren to put size on do you think?  I'm with nosleep in that maybe you should drop the tren dose a little in favor of more primo or something, and increase more towards the show?
Otherwise, fuck man that is a mutation cycle for sure.

[SmoofCat]

I don't get it.  Didn't you post about kigs that you were on 5IU and tried 10IU and couldn't handle it and now all of a sudden you're on 15IU or REAL pharma GH and you are fine?

Yeah 6 months ago when I had run no gh for 8 months 5 iu of the real kigs fucking rocked me . But I quickly was up to 15-20 iu of the real Kigs daily because my body adapted. Those kigs were good. 5 iu of them = 15 iu of these blues. They were almostt as good as this serosti
.

And yeah I have 2 kits of serostim 126 iu each and I'm going to run 15 iu daily because gh comes and goes. The more the merrier. Fuck it. Not going to dick around w 5 iu of sero daily i would rather just blast it and be done with it, because frankly I may not see pharm grade for a long time.

And the last time I had one kit of serosti
 I ran 4 iu daily and the results were great but not mind blowing.

[SmoofCat]

How much are you going to have to eat on that much tren to put size on do you think?  I'm with nosleep in that maybe you should drop the tren dose a little in favor of more primo or something, and increase more towards the show?
Otherwise, fuck man that is a mutation cycle for sure.

You can be In a calorie deficit on tren and still gain muscle. 200 mg daily is apparently the magic number.

I know my cycle seems insane, and one reason is because I have 7 months until I am a father. This surely won't hurt me. And I don't know what te future holds for me in terms
Of anabolics. I have all this amazing gear and gh right now and I want to take it all in one blast cycle per the next 6-7 months. I want to compete twice before I have a kid . I want to run this cycle now, because I am frankly ready to run this cycle.

[SmoofCat]

Can anyone respond to my letrozole question?

[SamsonD]

Can anyone respond to my letrozole question?

FWIW, I have only heard of people using letro to kill gyno when it pops up.  It will absolutely crush your estrogen and fuck up your lipids.

I'm not a big fan of running ancillaries "just in case".  For example, I always have some exemestane and nolva on hand, but I only needed them twice.  The first cycle I ever did was test and dbol and I swole up with water and started getting itchy nips so I ran the nolva and it fixed my shit before gyno could ever set in.
The one time I ever got over a gram of cyp, I was holding water like crazy again, so I got on some exemestane and in about a week I looked a lot better, and had better wood.

So I almost think you should start the cycle as you have it laid out and see what kind of sides you get and go from there.  I can run a gram of sust with no problems, it's only when I use a high dose of long estered shit that it fucks me up.  Now between the tren and NPP your progesterone might get crazy, so I would do like nosleep said above.
I don't think I would fuck with letro unless you had lumps.

[Overload]

I don't like Letro, it's too powerful IMO. I think it's great for pre-contest though. I don't use it so i can't really help you with a protocol, but I'm sure someone with better experience will chime in soon.

As for GH and T3; my understanding is that the high GH dose causes your thyroid to slow down and become sluggish. This is why a lot of guys recommend running 25mcg of T3 as a supplement to GH use. I have seen very little medical documentation to prove this, but i do know that my own thyroid has become rather sluggish over the past 18 months that i have been on GH. I go up to 75-100mcg of T3 when i want to cut.

I never liked clen, makes me feel wired and jittery.

This looks like a solid cycle. You are going to be a silverback gorilla.

[Arnold jr]

If you don't like Arimidex you're probably not going to like Letrozole. They extremely similar, but Letro's total suppression rate is more substantial. If you are Gyno sensitive though, and you obviously know you are you're going to have to do something, especially with what you have planned. Things like caber and B-vit aren't going to protect you at all....not in this case.

All that said, with Adex or Letro, with the amount of gear you're using I see it being unlikely that any AI in a reasonable dose is going to affect you negatively in the manner you described.

If Letro is what you're thinking, you might try 0.5mg/eod and see how that works. If that's not enough, and due to the amount of gear you're using it'll be close, if Gyno symptoms start showing you'll need around 2.5mg/ed for 10-14 days. Once the symptoms fade, back it down to 1mg/ed for about 7 days and then 1mg/eod and hold there for a wk or two....you might be able to slowly ease back down even lower, but obviously 0.5mg/eod would be too low if that didn't work for you early on.

As a side note, just based on something you said and it seems to be a misconception held by a lot of the board...it as best I can tell either stems from something GH15 said incorrectly or was misinterpreted by others...one of the two. You said "even the pros occasionally up their test to 1.5-2.5 grams weekly".....my point....I know of plenty of pros who run a maintenance dose of test at 2g/wk, they don't up it to 2g....that's maintenance. Either way, that's a lot of test.

[madg]

I can't use aromas in or arimidex etc etc makes me flat and weak

i hear u brother

ok i not as advance as u but im on more than 5 year,,my advice to u is,,if u dont like aromasin ,,letro will kill u

is TOO strong,,after 2 dose my joint was hurt,,mood fuck all..no strength etc

i wouldnt take it again,,beter aromasin  and looking flat imo

what about if u run 12.5mg aromasin eod? this very litle dose maybe wont flaten u

im sory for bad english

respect
madg

[CAPTAIN INSANO]

Thats an insane Cycle 

Have you considered Aromasin for an AI?

[SmoofCat]

IM NOT AS EXPERIENCED AS YOU, BUT HERE'S MY TAKES.

1. SEROSTIM, USE THE FINAL DAYS OF THE 15IU. IMAGINE GOING FROM SERO TO GENERIC BLUE TOP, THAT'S LIKE 20IU TO 12 IU. YOU'LL NOTICE THAT. START BLUE TOPS, THEN FINAL TOUCHES IS SEROSTIM.

2. GREAT JOB DROPPING CLEN. NO CLEN.

3. PROLACTIN WISE, ID SUGGEST ABOUT 300MG VITAMIN B6, NO CABER. ID SAY USUALLY 100-200 B6 BUT YOU GOT 2.1G OF THE MOST POTENT GYNO THINGS AND THEN A LOT OF FLUCTUATING TEST. 300MG WILL DO YOU FINE. PERHAPS EVEN A LOW DOSE CABER, MAYBE. LIKE .25MG CABER TWICE A WEEK AND 200MG VITAMIN B6 NIGHTLY.

4. DONT USE LETRO UNTIL PRE-COMP AND THE FINAL DAYS OUT. AVOID AI/AE'S EXCEPT PROVI & MAST AND SINCE U TOOK EM OUT, VITAMIN B6 OR LOW DOSE CABER/VITAMIN B6.

5. 12.5MCG T3 IS GOOD.

6. THAT SUST FROM WHERE I THINK IT IS? I HAVEN'T SEEN AN UG TEST MORE RAVED ABOUT, AND I KNOW MANY(ABOUT 10) PEOPLE THAT CLAIM IT'S THE GREATEST TEST THEY'VE EVER USED.

7. WHAT ARE YOUR GOALS FOR THIS? IF IT'S A LEAN BULK, MIGHT I SUGGEST DROPPING SOME TREN AND ADDING MORE PRIMO? AND WHEN IT'S CONTEST TIME, UP THAT TREN AND ADD MASTERON?

Sleep you are the man. I love your advice. As I always say, you are wise beyond your years.

1. Good advice i will take it. I'll run the serostim at the end and by then I will have 2 more kits, meaning 4 kigs of serostim to blast through.

2. Yes I agree. I love the feeling of clen, but it makes me almost too cut (I am already sub 6 percent and 3 weeks out). Also, my heart as most of u know, has some issues w murmurs and palpitations.

3. So what should i do about this tiny bit of gyno that is developing under my right nipple now that the masteron is done? If no Aromasin and no masteron, then would upping my Nolva to 20 mg daily be a terrible idea?

4. I agree. Read more this morning and letro is no go.

5. Agreed. Keeping at at 12.5 after speaking on pm this morning with one of the guys who competes for real on this board and is in the pursuit of the truth himself (agenda free). I ran the 25 mcg concept tbombz presented by him and he said, for my purposes of simply creating synergy w the hgh, keep it at 12.5.

6. Yes sust is from there (: and yes, the buzz about it is correct. Even the man himself told me it is the "most special test" out there. Do not know specifically what this means but trust me when magic happens, you don't question it. This is a VERY special, very different kind of test. The fullness is absurd, yet the waist remains unaffected and somehow the prop is very very apparent in the blend which most sust or omnadren is sorely lacking. So you stay lean in the waist and full everywhere else, provided you are running the right dose and the rest of the stack is good.

Can't emphasize this enough that this sust is magic.

7. Totally good points sleep. My goals are to attain an Arnold / serge nubret type of physique. After lots of research, this was essentially their stack after 74- obviously replace tren ace w parabolan, Npp w deca. This is not 100 percent accurate, but I believe they were on these products essentially after nubret came back from Europe w the suitcases full of parabolan in 74. I want the tren ace that high because I am entering contest mode. This stack will evolve in the months to come ad I will update everyone and fill you in.

[SmoofCat]

If you don't like Arimidex you're probably not going to like Letrozole. They extremely similar, but Letro's total suppression rate is more substantial. If you are Gyno sensitive though, and you obviously know you are you're going to have to do something, especially with what you have planned. Things like caber and B-vit aren't going to protect you at all....not in this case.

All that said, with Adex or Letro, with the amount of gear you're using I see it being unlikely that any AI in a reasonable dose is going to affect you negatively in the manner you described.

If Letro is what you're thinking, you might try 0.5mg/eod and see how that works. If that's not enough, and due to the amount of gear you're using it'll be close, if Gyno symptoms start showing you'll need around 2.5mg/ed for 10-14 days. Once the symptoms fade, back it down to 1mg/ed for about 7 days and then 1mg/eod and hold there for a wk or two....you might be able to slowly ease back down even lower, but obviously 0.5mg/eod would be too low if that didn't work for you early on.

As a side note, just based on something you said and it seems to be a misconception held by a lot of the board...it as best I can tell either stems from something GH15 said incorrectly or was misinterpreted by others...one of the two. You said "even the pros occasionally up their test to 1.5-2.5 grams weekly".....my point....I know of plenty of pros who run a maintenance dose of test at 2g/wk, they don't up it to 2g....that's maintenance. Either way, that's a lot of test.

Ok this is incredible advice, thank you.

What do you think my sustanon dose should be in this case then Arnold? With the cycle I have laid out, how much sust would you suggest weekly?

I think I am going to run the Nolva at 10 mg daily through the cycle. Since I dropped masteron, I am feeling minor gyno popping up. I am a smart guy and I address things early on. Now is the time.

[SmoofCat]

i hear u brother

ok i not as advance as u but im on more than 5 year,,my advice to u is,,if u dont like aromasin ,,letro will kill u

is TOO strong,,after 2 dose my joint was hurt,,mood fuck all..no strength etc

i wouldnt take it again,,beter aromasin  and looking flat imo

what about if u run 12.5mg aromasin eod? this very litle dose maybe wont flaten u

im sory for bad english

respect
madg

Good advice. Am deciding between Aromasin at 10 mg eod or nova 1g Ed, again ONLY because I am off masteron!

[El Diablo Blanco]

I don't like Letro, it's too powerful IMO. I think it's great for pre-contest though. I don't use it so i can't really help you with a protocol, but I'm sure someone with better experience will chime in soon.

As for GH and T3; my understanding is that the high GH dose causes your thyroid to slow down and become sluggish. This is why a lot of guys recommend running 25mcg of T3 as a supplement to GH use. I have seen very little medical documentation to prove this, but i do know that my own thyroid has become rather sluggish over the past 18 months that i have been on GH. I go up to 75-100mcg of T3 when i want to cut.

I never liked clen, makes me feel wired and jittery.

This looks like a solid cycle. You are going to be a silverback gorilla.

I believe the GH with T3 is all bro science.  True science says T4 as you are missing that conversion step that is required from T4 from T3 while on GH.

Google it your boarding moderate.  lol

[volcnnxn]

Nolva has been shown to decrease IGF..making your gh less effective..and also may cause less muscle response to hypertrophy..the stealing of gains..maybe aromisin might be better?

[Overload]

True science says T4 as you are missing that conversion step that is required from T4 from T3 while on GH.

Links?

I know what you are getting at, but would rather not go off tangent with a T3/T4 conversion debate.

[g101]

Nolva has been shown to decrease IGF..making your gh less effective..and also may cause less muscle response to hypertrophy..the stealing of gains..maybe aromisin might be better?

you read this on steroid.com lol ?

[tbombz]

Links?

I know what you are getting at, but would rather not go off tangent with a T3/T4 conversion debate.

im pretty sure i remember reading something to that extent before, but the thing is, t3 is really the active hormone, t4 doesnt do much of anything...  so it doesnt matter

you read this on steroid.com lol ?

its true actually.. need estrogen for gh to increase growth factors.. as far as how it affects real world results.. idk personally... but in the early 00's a guru, i think it was chad,  said that one of his clients had been using nolva with his gh unkowingly.. when chad had him remkove the nolva his weight jumped something like 20lbs.. as if he had never been on gh before..