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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Skip8282 on April 01, 2012, 01:42:02 PM
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Fellow Citizens:
There has been a lot of media attention to the recent incident where George
Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon Martin. This is indeed a tragic situation and has
caused a flood of questions and strong emotions from within our community, the region
and nation. On behalf of the employees of the City of Sanford, Our deepest sympathy
and prayers go out to the family and friends of Trayvon Martin. As a father, I can only
image the pain Trayvon’s family must be going through. The City of Sanford is
committed to insuring that justice is served and, therefore, the City of Sanford has
contacted the United States Attorney General’s Office for assistance in this matter.
In an effort to continue to be as responsive as possible to the public seeking information on
the incident, I have asked Chief Lee to provide answers to some of the most frequently
asked questions regarding this matter. Below are his responses. Please understand that
since this is still an ongoing investigation, the Police Department is limited in what
information it can publicly release.
The men and women of the Sanford Police Department extend our heartfelt
sympathies to the Martin family. This is indeed a tragic situation. The death of
anyone due to violence, especially a 17 year old young man, is morally appalling. As
this incident has generated a lot of media attention, we wanted to provide answers to
some of the most frequently asked questions.
Why was George Zimmerman not arrested the night of the shooting?
When the Sanford Police Department arrived at the scene of the incident, Mr.
Zimmerman provided a statement claiming he acted in self defense which at the time
was supported by physical evidence and testimony. By Florida Statute, law
enforcement was PROHIBITED from making an arrest based on the facts and
circumstances they had at the time. Additionally, when any police officer makes an
arrest for any reason, the officer MUST swear and affirm that he/she is making the
arrest in good faith and with probable cause. If the arrest is done maliciously and in
bad faith, the officer and the City may be held liable.
According to Florida Statute 776.032 :
776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use
of force.—
(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is
justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action
for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law
enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance
of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance
with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have
known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the
term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or
prosecuting the defendant.
(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the
use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the
person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the
force that was used was unlawful. Why weren’t the 911 tapes initially released?
There are exemptions to the public records laws for active criminal intelligence and
for ongoing investigations. In this instance, the 911 calls made by neighbors in the
subdivision, and the non-emergency call made by Mr. Zimmerman are all key to the
investigation by Sanford Police Department. In consultation with the Office of the
State Attorney, the Sanford police department had decided not to release the audio
recordings of the 911 calls due to the ongoing investigation. Many times, specific
information is contained in those recordings which is vital to the integrity of the
investigation. At the time, it was determined that if revealed, the information may
compromise the integrity of the investigation prior to its completion. The 911 tapes
have since been released.
Why did Mr. Zimmerman have a firearm in his possession while acting in the
role of a neighborhood watch member?
Mr. Zimmerman holds a concealed weapon permit issued from the State of Florida.
He is authorized to carry the weapon in a concealed manner wherever Florida
Statute dictates. Neighborhood Watch programs are designed for members of a
neighborhood to be “eyes and ears” for police and to watch out for their neighbors.
They are not members of the Police Department nor are they vigilantes. Training
provided by law enforcement agencies to Neighborhood Watch organizations
stresses non-contact surveillance of suspicious situations and notifying police of
those situations so that law enforcement can respond and take control of the
situation.
Mr. Zimmerman was not acting outside the legal boundaries of Florida Statute by
carrying his weapon when this incident occurred. He was in fact on a personal
errand in his vehicle when he observed Mr. Martin in the community and called the
Sanford Police Department.
If Zimmerman was told not to continue to follow Trayvon, can that be
considered in this investigation?
Yes it will; however, the telecommunications call taker asked Zimmerman “are you
following him”. Zimmerman replied, “yes”. The call taker stated “you don’t need to do
that”. The call taker’s suggestion is not a lawful order that Mr. Zimmerman would be
required to follow. Zimmerman’s statement was that he had lost sight of Trayvon and
was returning to his truck to meet the police officer when he says he was attacked by
Trayvon.
Why was George Zimmerman labeled as “squeaky clean” when in fact he has
a prior arrest history?
In one of the initial meetings with the father of the victim the investigator related to
him the account that Mr. Zimmerman provided of the incident. At that time the
investigator said that Mr. Zimmerman portrayed himself to be “squeaky clean”. We
are aware of the background information regarding both individuals involved in this
event. We believe Mr. Martin may have misconstrued this information.
What about media reenactments of the shooting incident?
Any media reenactments of the shooting incident are purely speculation. To date the
Sanford Police Department has not released any rendition of the events of the
evening to anyone other than the Office of the State Attorney. The renditions we
have seen are not consistent with the evidence in this case.
The Sanford Police Department has conducted a complete and fair investigation of
this incident. We have provided the results of our investigation to the Office of the
State Attorney for their review and consideration for possible criminal prosecution.
Although the Police Department is the target of the troubling questions, let me
assure you we too feel the pain of this senseless tragedy that has dramatically
affected our community. Therefore, as we move forward and strive to answer the
questions that are a point of controversy in the community, we ask for your patience,
understanding and assistance in getting the correct information to the community
We trust that this information is helpful to you.
Norton N. Bonaparte, Jr., ICMA-CM
City Manager
March 23, 2012
http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Zimmerman_Martin_shooting.pdf
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C'mon Mal, help me out bro.
The police haven't released anything except to the DA and the media reenactments are not accurate.
Where's all this "other" evidence that Zimmerman's guilty?
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In case anybody missed this from the city manager:
"The call taker’s suggestion is not a lawful order that Mr. Zimmerman would be
required to follow."
::)
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C'mon Mal, help me out bro.
The police haven't released anything except to the DA and the media reenactments are not accurate.
Where's all this "other" evidence that Zimmerman's guilty?
Bro? Don't patronize him you Triscut.
The other evidence that was not mentioned is as follows: Martin was black.
Verdict: Guilty.
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Bro? Don't patronize him you Triscut.
The other evidence that was not mentioned is as follows: Martin was black.
Verdict: Guilty.
Nah, didn't mean it that way - Mal's a good guy, physician, Steelers fan.
But agreed on the race issue. I don't think Mal's looking at this objectively.
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Nah, didn't mean it that way - Mal's a good guy, physician, Steelers fan.
But agreed on the race issue. I don't think Mal's looking at this objectively.
I know you didn't-- but I wanted to come off like an angry black guy.
lol
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He liked tea and skittles :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P
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Racist post reported
Reason:
Attempting to challenge the traditional guilty verdict whenever a black citizen is murdered by a non-black citizen.
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C'mon Mal, help me out bro.
The police haven't released anything except to the DA and the media reenactments are not accurate.
Where's all this "other" evidence that Zimmerman's guilty?
this is based on a claim by the city manager
Shall we assume he has seen the evidence because he also says "Sanford Police Department has not released any rendition of the events of the evening to anyone other than the Office of the State Attorney"
Shouldn't this say "to my office and the Office of State Attorney"
If not then how is he arriving at this conclusion?
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this is based on a claim by the city manager
Shall we assume he has seen the evidence because he also says "Sanford Police Department has not released any rendition of the events of the evening to anyone other than the Office of the State Attorney"
Shouldn't this say "to my office and the Office of State Attorney"
If not then how is he arriving at this conclusion?
I know reading comprehension isn't your strong point - but at least try to follow.
"In an effort to continue to be as responsive as possible to the public seeking information on
the incident, I have asked Chief Lee to provide answers to some of the most frequently
asked questions regarding this matter. Below are his responses."
::)
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In case anybody missed this from the city manager:
"The call taker’s suggestion is not a lawful order that Mr. Zimmerman would be
required to follow."
::)
Ha pwned myself.
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I live in a trailer in Bumfucksville, Florida and watch MSDNC all day. Trust me, I know what happened. Zimmerman is guilty. Lynch him!
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Why are all you libs so desperate to paint this as unjustified.
I'm more than willing to agree that when the facts come out - Zimmerman may have committed murder. But at least let the facts come out.
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I know reading comprehension isn't your strong point - but at least try to follow.
"In an effort to continue to be as responsive as possible to the public seeking information on
the incident, I have asked Chief Lee to provide answers to some of the most frequently
asked questions regarding this matter. Below are his responses."
::)
exactly
he didn't look at the evidence
he only passed along what the police told him
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Why are all you libs so desperate to paint this as unjustified.
I'm more than willing to agree that when the facts come out - Zimmerman may have committed murder. But at least let the facts come out.
Why? Because it allows them to push their agenda.
Here's a link to all the bills the Congressional Black Caucus is introducing as a result of this shooting.
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/219385-house-dems-eye-policy-responses-to-shooting-death-of-trayvon-martin
They couldn't care less about Trayvon. All they care about is using his death to get what they want. The lengths leftists will go to in their attempts to grab power never cease to disgust.
(http://www.bluegrasstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/justified.jpg)
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exactly
he didn't look at the evidence
he only passed along what the police told him
What's your point? Are you accusing Chief Lee of lying about the answers?
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Why are all you libs so desperate to paint this as unjustified.
I'm more than willing to agree that when the facts come out - Zimmerman may have committed murder. But at least let the facts come out.
who knows if it's justified or not
there was virtually no investigation at the time of the event or afterward
all we have so far is CYA but the police
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What's your point? Are you accusing Chief Lee of lying about the answers?
I'm saying the city manager can't present opinion told to him by someone as a fact
this could be fully investigated and proven to be self defense and justified but so far there are no actual facts (at least none in the public domain that I'm aware of) to support that
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Why? Because it allows them to push their agenda.
Here's a link to all the bills the Congressional Black Caucus is introducing as a result of this shooting.
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/219385-house-dems-eye-policy-responses-to-shooting-death-of-trayvon-martin
They couldn't care less about Trayvon. All they care about is using his death to get what they want. The lengths leftists will go to in their attempts to grab power never cease to disgust.
(http://www.bluegrasstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/justified.jpg)
Damn.
Can't argue with that.
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there was virtually no investigation at the time of the event or afterward
The Chief feels otherwise. And can you support this claim of an investigation not occurring?
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I'm saying the city manager can't present opinion told to him by someone as a fact
this could be fully investigated and proven to be self defense and justified but so far there are no actual facts (at least none in the public domain that I'm aware of) to support that
Of course he can - this isn't a court of law.
NO FACTS is the point. Mal was claiming in another thread that Zimmerman is guilty because of "ALL" the other facts. 240's already convicted Zimmerman. Protests are occurring by a bunch of clueless people who don't know the facts!
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The Chief feels otherwise. And can you support this claim of an investigation not occurring?
obviously
I can only say what I've seen on tape from so called "eyewitness" (which they are not as I don't think anyone, to the best of my knowledge saw the atual event)
Martin was killed in this womans backyard and she is called an "eyewitness" though she didn't see the even either, only the aftermath
to my "claim" of "virtually no investigation at the time" I present this womans claim that the cops didn't question her in detail at the time and she had to chase them down to give them her information
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obviously
I can only say what I've seen on tape from so called "eyewitness" (which they are not as I don't think anyone, to the best of my knowledge saw the atual event)
Martin was killed in this womans backyard and she is called an "eyewitness" though she didn't see the even either, only the aftermath
to my "claim" of "virtually no investigation at the time" I present this womans claim that the cops didn't question her in detail at the time and she had to chase them down to give them her information
There was another of a young black kid who said he saw TM on top of him smashing his head into the ground.
The vid is here somewhere.
Basically, unless someone can prove that Zimmerman attacked Trayvon in some way (following him doesnt count), he's going to walk, and thats all there is to it.
IF they can prove that Zimmerman struck/grabbed/attacked TM 1st (unlikely being that Trayvon had him on his back smashing his head into the sidewalk) than he would/should be going to jail.
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obviously
I can only say what I've seen on tape from so called "eyewitness" (which they are not as I don't think anyone, to the best of my knowledge saw the atual event)
Martin was killed in this womans backyard and she is called an "eyewitness" though she didn't see the even either, only the aftermath
to my "claim" of "virtually no investigation at the time" I present this womans claim that the cops didn't question her in detail at the time and she had to chase them down to give them her information
Probably go either way with that. It doesn't seem she saw anything, and she seems to have the opinion (from the reporter saying it), that even if Zimmerman was getting his a$$ kicked, he shouldn't have shot. IDK.
Also, has the DA's office even bothered with her?
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There was another of a young black kid who said he saw TM on top of him smashing his head into the ground.
The vid is here somewhere.
Basically, unless someone can prove that Zimmerman attacked Trayvon in some way (following him doesnt count), he's going to walk, and thats all there is to it.
IF they can prove that Zimmerman struck/grabbed/attacked TM 1st (unlikely being that Trayvon had him on his back smashing his head into the sidewalk) than he would/should be going to jail.
According to Zimmerman and how does that claim in anyway support the idea the idea that Martin was the instigator?
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http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/03/31/MSNBC-Admits-Zimmerman-Head-Injury
Plain to see - he has a gash in his head.
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http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/03/31/MSNBC-Admits-Zimmerman-Head-Injury
Plain to see - he has a gash in his head.
I guess when I see it that will prove he has a gash on this head
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Theres a big article on NBC doing an investigation because they edited the 911 call to appear racist, when in fact the operator asked Zimmerman what color the kid was.
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Today at 12:35
NBC to Internally Investigate Misleading Segment on Zimmerman 911
http://www.nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/04/nbc-investigating-segment-on-zimmerman-call.html?imw=Y
By Brett Smiley
Zimmerman.
NBC disclosed today that it will be launching an internal investigation into a segment about the Trayvon Martin case that appeared on the Today show, in which a call between George Zimmerman and a 911 dispatcher prior to Martin's death was edited in such a way that it portrays Zimmerman as a racial profiler. The editorial decision under review involves the removal of the dispatcher's inquiry about the race of the person Zimmerman was following — Martin. Absent that question, Zimmerman's comments get strung together as if he said, in sequence, "This guy looks like he’s up to no good. He looks black."
The Washington Post provides the full transcript of that part of the call:
Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. Or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about.
Dispatcher: OK, and this guy — is he black, white or Hispanic?
Zimmerman: He looks black.
Of course Zimmerman goes on to follow Martin against the advice of the dispatcher, but in this version of the call, it doesn't appear that he's awkwardly offering the information or in effect, profiling. Zimmerman still might have been, but the truncated call left much less doubt.
The Post's Erik Wemple writes that in a case where few facts are undisputed, it was particularly egregious to misrepresent one of them, the phone call. "To portray that exchange in a way that wrongs Zimmerman is high editorial malpractice well worthy of the investigation that NBC is now mounting."
Meanwhile New York Times media czar David Carr wrote a column today titled "A Shooting, And Instant Polarization," in which he similarly impugned some media coverage of this controversial case.
That the public is rendering its verdict immediately and firmly may be routine, but choosing sides takes on a deeper, more dangerous meaning when race is at the heart of the story. Race as an explosive issue is nothing new, but it’s been staggering to see it simmer and boil over in our hyperdivided media environment where nonstop coverage on the Web and cable television creates a rush to judgment every day.
Partisan politics and far-flung conflicts fit nicely into that world — who’s ahead, who’s behind, should we stay or go? — but racial conflict? Not so much.
That hasn’t stopped many in the media from displaying the same reflexive vigilantism that some are attributing to George Zimmerman, the man who shot Trayvon. All over the Internet and on cable TV, posses are forming, positions are hardening and misinformation is flourishing. Instead of debating how we as a culture are going to proceed, an increasingly partisan system of news and social media has factionalized and curdled.
Carr and Wemple are not the only two to call out partisan media and media at large for mishandling coverage of the Martin case, or misrepresenting specific aspects of it. Nor are NBC or Business Insider (chastised by Carr for mishandling dubious photos) the only two to have erred in their coverage.
We'll end with an exchange from Something's Gotta Give, starring Jack Nicholson (Harry) and Diane Keaton (Erica):
Harry: I have never lied to you. I have always told you some version of the truth.
Erica Barry: The truth doesn't have versions, okay?
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Theres a big article on NBC doing an investigation because they edited the 911 call to appear racist, when in fact the operator asked Zimmerman what color the kid was.
did the 911 Operator tell him to say the word "coon" too?
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did the 911 Operator tell him to say the word "####" too?
So? The only thing that matters is who initiated the physical confrontation. If TM started it - game over Zimm walks.
If not - Zimm will get arrested.
But so far Zimms story is holding up.
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did the 911 Operator tell him to say the word "####" too?
What does that have to do with them editing it to make it sound like he was profiling the kid?
Besides, when I listened to the tape, sounded like "fucking punk" to me. You cant even make it out well enough to prove one way or the other.
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Dude we know the story....
Thug black kid went out looking for a fight and knew that skittles and juice would do it.
Zimmerman was minding his own business just crusing around with a gun.... wasnt looking for trouble...
Black kid got what he asked for
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What does that have to do with them editing it to make it sound like he was profiling the kid?
Besides, when I listened to the tape, sounded like "fucking punk" to me. You cant even make it out well enough to prove one way or the other.
no, the editing thing is exusable but it sounded to me like he said coon
also interesting that the last thing he said Martin was doing was running away from him
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Dude we know the story....
Thug black kid went out looking for a fight and knew that skittles and juice would do it.
Zimmerman was minding his own business just crusing around with a gun.... wasnt looking for trouble...
Black kid got what he asked for
So then it is like the dozens of other killings of blacks all across the coutry every week that "the community" doesnt say shit about?
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Dude we know the story....
Thug black kid went out looking for a fight and knew that skittles and juice would do it.
Zimmerman was minding his own business just crusing around with a gun.... wasnt looking for trouble...
Black kid got what he asked for
Where the fuck do you get this?
I dont think Zimmerman is entirely innocent, not at all.
Its not one scenario or the other, the truth lies in the middle somewhere. The whole thing boils down to who physically attacked who 1st. Thats the whole deal. If Trayvon slugged Zimmerman 1st, than its self defense. If Zimmerman hit Trayvon 1st, then its a crime.
Why do you assume that if we dont want to turn Zimmerman into a cold blooded racist murderer, that somehow means that Trayvon was a "thug black kid looking for a fight"?
::)
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We are still absent of very important facts some of which may never be known.
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no, the editing thing is exusable but it sounded to me like he said ####
also interesting that the last thing he said Martin was doing was running away from him
Yeah I thought the same thing, at the end he said he doesnt know where the kid went. Thats what leads me to believe that he's (at least mostly) telling the truth - remember he said he was almost back at his truck when Trayvon confronted him and punched him.
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Dude we know the story....
Thug black kid went out looking for a fight and knew that skittles and juice would do it.
Zimmerman was minding his own business just crusing around with a gun.... wasnt looking for trouble...
Black kid got what he asked for
Strange...
I thought the story was...
Innocent, gentle, honor roll making, African American went to buy some candy - probably for Grandma, after donating half his money to the March of Dimes.
Evil, racist, Half-White dude stalks him with a gun.
Evil, racist, Half-White dude murders kid.
Evil, racist, cops (and all the other racists in the investigation) cover for evil, racist, Half-White dude.
Half-White dude already looking for next innocent victim.
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Strange...
I thought the story was...
Innocent, gentle, honor roll making, African American went to buy some candy - probably for Grandma, after donating half his money to the March of Dimes.
Evil, racist, Half-White dude stalks him with a gun.
Evil, racist, Half-White dude murders kid.
Evil, racist, cops (and all the other racists in the investigation) cover for evil, racist, Half-White dude.
Half-White dude already looking for next innocent victim.
Racist post reported.
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I give up.
BF's right...I'm convinced it's all about pushing an agenda.
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I give up.
BF's right...I'm convinced it's all about pushing an agenda.
That is what ALWAYS IS!
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I give up.
BF's right...I'm convinced it's all about pushing an agenda.
At this point in this case yes. Its a good set of circumstances for exploitation.
What appears to be a potential racists incident void of complete facts.
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I give up.
BF's right...I'm convinced it's all about pushing an agenda.
I'm convinced it's about parents and a community being upset that an unarmed kid who was not committing any crime was gunned down and the killer is walking free
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I'm convinced it's about parents and a community being upset that an unarmed kid who was not committing any crime was gunned down and the killer is walking free
You're right, assaulting someone because you didn't like him watching/following/calling.the cops on you is not a crime.
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Yeah I thought the same thing, at the end he said he doesnt know where the kid went. Thats what leads me to believe that he's (at least mostly) telling the truth - remember he said he was almost back at his truck when Trayvon confronted him and punched him.
and that the part that makes no sense
the last thing on the 911 call is Martin running away and Zimmerman following him
According to Zimmerman he then walked back to his truck and we're supposed to believe that Martin then ran back up and attacked him......that doesn't make any sense to me and all we can rely on is a guy who could be facing murder charges if he stalked, attacked and then shot this kid
btw - does anyone know how far away from his truck the shooting takes place
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You're right, assaulting someone because you didn't like him watching/following/calling.the cops on you is not a crime.
still not a shred of proof that that's what happened except for Zimmermans story
btw - you think Martin knew the Zimmerman was talking to the cops. How would he have even know that?
stories in the MSM media today say it was Martin who was heard cyring for help (cries which stopped when he was shot)
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So then it is like the dozens of other killings of blacks all across the coutry every week that "the community" doesnt say shit about?
how many times do you need this explained to you
the difference in those cases is that the killers weren't detained by police and then patted on the head and released without charges
if that happened in the other cases you would no doubt see the same outrage
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still not a shred of proof that that's what happened except for Zimmermans story
btw - you think Martin knew the Zimmerman was talking to the cops. How would he have even know that?
stories in the MSM media today say it was Martin who was heard cyring for help (cries which stopped when he was shot)
Youre right - except the neighbors eyewitness statments that Trayvon had him on his back, the fact that he had wounds on the back of his head, and the fact that all of that is consistent with his story.
I dont know if he knew he was talkign to the cops and it doesnt matter. What mattered was who attacked who - and the evidence points to TM attacking Zimmerman.
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Youre right - except the neighbors eyewitness statments that Trayvon had him on his back, the fact that he had wounds on the back of his head, and the fact that all of that is consistent with his story.
I dont know if he knew he was talkign to the cops and it doesnt matter. What mattered was who attacked who - and the evidence points to TM attacking Zimmerman.
again - there is zero evidence of who attacked who
I haven't seen any statement from someone who witnessed that and even if it were true it doesn't constitute proof of who was the aggressor
We've already discussed the alleged injury to his head and that (IMO) doesn't proof anything either
probably no point in going over the same ground again
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again - there is zero evidence of who attacked who
I haven't seen any statement from someone who witnessed that and even if it were true it doesn't constitute proof of who was the aggressor
We've already discussed the alleged injury to his head and that (IMO) doesn't proof anything either
probably no point in going over the same ground again
Agreed. Ill just let you know where it came from.
My belief is that what was witnessed followed with the story followed with the injury. It adds up. Usually when someone just makes a story up out of the blue, it doesnt fit in with the evidence surrounding it.
The cut to the back of the head, the witness saying TM was on top of him hitting him, and the story that TM confronted him and then attacked him - usually the aggressor (with the element of suprise) will take the other man to the ground, which is again in line with the evidence. Unless Zimmerman was just a terrible fighter or a total idiot, I dont see Zimmerman attacking TM and then TM reversing it and beating the shit out of him that quickly.
Speculation on my part yes, but speculation within the evidence.
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Agreed. Ill just let you know where it came from.
My belief is that what was witnessed followed with the story followed with the injury. It adds up. Usually when someone just makes a story up out of the blue, it doesnt fit in with the evidence surrounding it.
The cut to the back of the head, the witness saying TM was on top of him hitting him, and the story that TM confronted him and then attacked him - usually the aggressor (with the element of suprise) will take the other man to the ground, which is again in line with the evidence. Unless Zimmerman was just a terrible fighter or a total idiot, I dont see Zimmerman attacking TM and then TM reversing it and beating the shit out of him that quickly.
Speculation on my part yes, but speculation within the evidence.
I might be more likely to believe Zimmerman story if there was an eyewitness to the beginning of the confrontation or the shooting
I have problem with the fact that Martin was running away
Why would someone run away and then turn around and run back and start a fight
that makes no sense to me
Also, you'd think the cops could figure out if Martin was shot while lying on his back as opposed to sitting on top of Zimmerman.
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I might be more likely to believe Zimmerman story if there was an eyewitness to the beginning of the confrontation or the shooting
I have problem with the fact that Martin was running away
Why would someone run away and then turn around and run back and start a fight
that makes no sense to me
Also, you'd think the cops could figure out if Martin was shot while lying on his back as opposed to sitting on top of Zimmerman.
Thats why I said Im pretty sure they corroborated that he was on top of Zimmerman when he was shot. I could be wrong however. Even if Zimmerman pursued Trayvon, thats still no crime - if he chased him down and confronted him, its still who attacked 1st, thats kind of why I think he's telling the truth, why would he lie about that? It wouldnt matter where he was at, it wouldnt matter if he chased him down the road of if Trayvon confronted him at his truck. Plus they should have been able to tell from distance to his truck from the shooting if he chased him.
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Why are all you libs so desperate to paint this as unjustified.
I'm more than willing to agree that when the facts come out - Zimmerman may have committed murder. But at least let the facts come out.
Wise position.
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Thats why I said Im pretty sure they corroborated that he was on top of Zimmerman when he was shot. I could be wrong however. Even if Zimmerman pursued Trayvon, thats still no crime - if he chased him down and confronted him, its still who attacked 1st, thats kind of why I think he's telling the truth, why would he lie about that? It wouldnt matter where he was at, it wouldnt matter if he chased him down the road of if Trayvon confronted him at his truck. Plus they should have been able to tell from distance to his truck from the shooting if he chased him.
I can think of one very obvious reason
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I can think of one very obvious reason
Go for it. I cant imagine that if Trayvon attacked him, it would matter if he was standing by his truck or down the road. And again, I feel like the media would have pounced all over it if he had said he was almost back to his truck and the shooting occured way down the road from the truck.
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Go for it. I cant imagine that if Trayvon attacked him, it would matter if he was standing by his truck or down the road. And again, I feel like the media would have pounced all over it if he had said he was almost back to his truck and the shooting occured way down the road from the truck.
to avoid being charged with murder or homicide
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to avoid being charged with murder or homicide
But its not murder or homicide if he followed and confronted Trayvon and TM attacked him, its only murder if Zimmerman attacked him. Zimmerman could very well have followed TM down the road, only to have TM attack him. (But like I said, Im pretty sure the media would have had a field day if the body was a long ways from the truck, so that part of Zimmermans story seems to add up.)
Could be that TM took off originally, and then decided to confront him after he saw Zimmerman use the phone.
All speculation, but it really does seem to match up with Zimmermans story more than any other option at this point. :-\
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But its not murder or homicide if he followed and confronted Trayvon and TM attacked him, its only murder if Zimmerman attacked him. Zimmerman could very well have followed TM down the road, only to have TM attack him. (But like I said, Im pretty sure the media would have had a field day if the body was a long ways from the truck, so that part of Zimmermans story seems to add up.)
Could be that TM took off originally, and then decided to confront him after he saw Zimmerman use the phone.
All speculation, but it really does seem to match up with Zimmermans story more than any other option at this point. :-\
and you asked why he would lie about it and that's your answer
to avoid being charged with murder or homicide
how far from the truck did the shooting take place?
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But its not murder or homicide if he followed and confronted Trayvon and TM attacked him, its only murder if Zimmerman attacked him. Zimmerman could very well have followed TM down the road, only to have TM attack him. (But like I said, Im pretty sure the media would have had a field day if the body was a long ways from the truck, so that part of Zimmermans story seems to add up.)
Could be that TM took off originally, and then decided to confront him after he saw Zimmerman use the phone.
All speculation, but it really does seem to match up with Zimmermans story more than any other option at this point. :-\
Let me kind of understand you, IF Zimmerman followed him, making it obvious he was following him, got out of his truck and confronted him and Trayvon, feeling himself being in a position of danger defended himself by physical means, you're okay with the deadly force response?
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Let me kind of understand you, IF Zimmerman followed him, making it obvious he was following him, got out of his truck and confronted him and Trayvon, feeling himself being in a position of danger defended himself by physical means, you're okay with the deadly force response?
Depends on the circumstances. If he confronted Trayvon and was simply asking questions (I.E. wasnt intimidating or threatening), then yes.
Obviously if he went at Trayvon with intent thats a little different. But if thats the case, than IMHO this isnt self defense.
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Let me kind of understand you, IF Zimmerman followed him, making it obvious he was following him, got out of his truck and confronted him and Trayvon, feeling himself being in a position of danger defended himself by physical means, you're okay with the deadly force response?
Simply talking to someone or asking them a question or two isnt reason to defend yourself physically...
If zimmerman attacked him then TM had every right to defend himself. Just like zimmerman had every right to go see what TM was up to if he looked like he was up to no good.
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Simply talking to someone or asking them a question or two isnt reason to defend yourself physically...
If zimmerman attacked him then TM had every right to defend himself. Just like zimmerman had every right to go see what TM was up to if he looked like he was up to no good.
I think he was referring more the the grey area of if Zimmerman followed him, got out of the truck and threatened him or Trayvon was worred that Zimmerman may be trying to mug him or hurt him. (doubtful juding from the 911 call, IMHO, seems more like Zimmerman had given up looking for him at the end of the 911 call.)
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I think he was referring more the the grey area of if Zimmerman followed him, got out of the truck and threatened him or Trayvon was worred that Zimmerman may be trying to mug him or hurt him. (doubtful juding from the 911 call, IMHO, seems more like Zimmerman had given up looking for him at the end of the 911 call.)
Well the thing is there is no evidence to suggest that he did threaten TM so why even bring it up?
I agree sounds like zimmerman took the advice from the 911 operator and was on his way back to his truck and was confronted himself.
I dont really blame TM thinking back to his age I might have done the same thing if I noticed a guy following me. That being said it wouldnt have made it right and if thats the way it happened zimmerman had every right to defend himself if he felt his life was in jeopardy.
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He lied, IMO, about "he looks to be on drugs and I just saw him pull soemthing from his waistband". He said that shit so the police would arrive faster. They would show up ready to blast, beliving there was some smacked-out nutjab waving around a gun. Already he was lying to police because it served his desires.
Can we agree on that? if you had ot bet your fcking life on it, would you say he probably *embellished* just a bit with the drama queen shit? Yes or no.
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Well the thing is there is no evidence to suggest that he did threaten TM so why even bring it up?
I agree sounds like zimmerman took the advice from the 911 operator and was on his way back to his truck and was confronted himself.
I dont really blame TM thinking back to his age I might have done the same thing if I noticed a guy following me. That being said it wouldnt have made it right and if thats the way it happened zimmerman had every right to defend himself if he felt his life was in jeopardy.
Been wondering myself...the agenda...
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He lied, IMO, about "he looks to be on drugs and I just saw him pull soemthing from his waistband". He said that shit so the police would arrive faster. They would show up ready to blast, beliving there was some smacked-out nutjab waving around a gun. Already he was lying to police because it served his desires.
Can we agree on that? if you had ot bet your fcking life on it, would you say he probably *embellished* just a bit with the drama queen shit? Yes or no.
WTF? We can all agree that what? He said "it looks like he has something in his hands" (Skittles), no where did he infer it was a firearm. That was you. He said "It was raining, and hes just kinda walking around, looking around, looks like hes on drugs". He was just telling the dispatcher what he was witnessing. YOURE the one putting intent into his words, thats what YOU hear. Not what the rest of us hear.
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zimmerman had a felony arrest for assault on a cop, and a domestic abuse charge. Trayvon had no violent history.
chemically, treyvon had no drugs in his blood. Zimmerman had done state-ordered alcohol abuse classes and wasn't tested for BAC that night.
location-wise, zimmerman pursued treyvon for 2 blocks after hanging up - treyvon was almost home when he got shot. zimmerman's house was on the other side of the complex.
the lead investigator woudl have charged zimmerman, if the police chief and state prosecutor hadn't rushed in to stop him. ANyone wanna bet zimmerman's judge dad called the prosecutor that night? ;)
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Been wondering myself...the agenda...
what "agenda' and by whom ?
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WTF? We can all agree that what? He said "it looks like he has something in his hands" (Skittles), no where did he infer it was a firearm. That was you. He said "It was raining, and hes just kinda walking around, looking around, looks like hes on drugs". He was just telling the dispatcher what he was witnessing. YOURE the one putting intent into his words, thats what YOU hear. Not what the rest of us hear.
actually, he said 3 steps - he has something in his waistband. He is pulling it out. He has something in his hand. 3 steps to drawing a weapon - textbook legal CCW shoot, homie ;) That shit is all over the survivalist boards. the gun nuts know it. You detail the steps of him drawing so it's a legal shoot. adding 'he looks to be on drugs' helps too lol.
he knew exactly what to say to have cops shot up in felony arrest mode. you know it. you can play naive and say "no, i think he really believed it" - then you have to tell us why this man would chase an armed high man two blocks into the darkness. He woudln't.
I just wish we could have a little honesty here. I think the shoot was legal technicaly and zimmerman shouldn't be charged - but i do think he should be charged for being a lying fuck and do 2 years fo robstruction and lying to police. he's making shit tougher for permit holders for 20 years, and good fcking luck getting stand-your-ground in the other 30 states after this ass-hat abused it.
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zimmerman had a felony arrest for assault on a cop, and a domestic abuse charge. Trayvon had no violent history.
chemically, treyvon had no drugs in his blood. Zimmerman had done state-ordered alcohol abuse classes and wasn't tested for BAC that night.
location-wise, zimmerman pursued treyvon for 2 blocks after hanging up - treyvon was almost home when he got shot. zimmerman's house was on the other side of the complex.
the lead investigator woudl have charged zimmerman, if the police chief and state prosecutor hadn't rushed in to stop him. ANyone wanna bet zimmerman's judge dad called the prosecutor that night? ;)
Where are you getting this 2 blocks after he hung up? How do you know where he was when he hung up? Where was his truck? Have you even read the full transcript of the call? Where are you getting these locations when he couldnt even tell the dispatcher exactly where he was? Where are these facts coming from?
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what "agenda' and by whom ?
check the MSNBC thread about them editing the 911 call and youll have your answer ;)
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Where are you getting this 2 blocks after he hung up? How do you know where he was when he hung up? Where was his truck? Have you even read the full transcript of the call? Where are you getting these locations when he couldnt even tell the dispatcher exactly where he was? Where are these facts coming from?
nbc news showed the aerial map of the park today. i'll look for the link. they broke down each step of the call "i'm at the clubhouse, i'll meet you at the mailboxes" They then showed where the body was found, two blocks away. it was one block over from trayon's house. zimmerman lived on the opposite side of the park and was at about the furthest point from his house. The shot could have been heard at trayvon's house, easily. I'll look for it.
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actually, he said 3 steps - he has something in his waistband. He is pulling it out. He has something in his hand. 3 steps to drawing a weapon - textbook legal CCW shoot, homie ;) That shit is all over the survivalist boards. the gun nuts know it. You detail the steps of him drawing so it's a legal shoot. adding 'he looks to be on drugs' helps too lol.
he knew exactly what to say to have cops shot up in felony arrest mode. you know it. you can play naive and say "no, i think he really believed it" - then you have to tell us why this man would chase an armed high man two blocks into the darkness. He woudln't.
I just wish we could have a little honesty here. I think the shoot was legal technicaly and zimmerman shouldn't be charged - but i do think he should be charged for being a lying fuck and do 2 years fo robstruction and lying to police. he's making shit tougher for permit holders for 20 years, and good fcking luck getting stand-your-ground in the other 30 states after this ass-hat abused it.
No he didnt. He said "He has his hands in his waistband" No where did he say he was pulling something out. Jesus fucking christ dude.
Heres a hint - this is the call
OK, is he White, Black, or Hispanic?
Zimmerman:
He looks black.
911 dispatcher:
Did you see what he was wearing?
Zimmerman:
Yeah, a dark hoodie like a gray hoodie. He wore jeans or sweat pants and white tennis shoes. He’s here now … he’s just staring. [00:42]
911 dispatcher:
He’s just walking around the area, the houses? OK.
Zimmerman:
Now he’s staring at me. [00:48]
911 dispatcher:
OK, you said that’s 1111 Retreat View or 111?
Zimmerman:
That’s the clubhouse.
911 dispatcher:
He’s near the clubhouse now?
Zimmerman:
Yeah, now he’s coming toward me. He’s got his hands in his waist band.
And he’s a black male.[1:03]
911 dispatcher:
How old would you say he is?
Zimmerman:
He’s got something on his shirt. About like his late teens.911 dispatcher:
Late teens?
Zimmerman:
Uh, huh.
Something’s wrong with him. Yep, he’s coming to check me out.
He’s got something in his hands. I don’t know what his deal is. [01:20]
911 dispatcher:
Let me know if he does anything, OK?
Zimmerman:
OK.
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When you read the whole transcript in context without inferencing your own shit - it looks an awful lot like he's just describing the dude, what he's wearing, how he looks, and what he's carrying.
Youre the one 240 that keeps putting in shit like "He was pulling something out of his waistband, he was trying to make it seem like he had a gun"
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nbc news showed the aerial map of the park today. i'll look for the link. they broke down each step of the call "i'm at the clubhouse, i'll meet you at the mailboxes" They then showed where the body was found, two blocks away. it was one block over from trayon's house. zimmerman lived on the opposite side of the park and was at about the furthest point from his house. The shot could have been heard at trayvon's house, easily. I'll look for it.
Is this the same NBC that edited the call to make it sound racist? Yeah, good job with that one.
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Narrative Fail: George Zimmerman Weighs 170 Pounds Not 240 Pounds, Trayvon Martin 160…
Either the NY Times needs to tear out the front page or they have just delivered an epic fail. In either case, they have delivered a tilt to the scales of justice.
In a long attempt to detail the night of the Trayvon Martin killing they include this description of the fatal scuffle:
However it started, witnesses described to the 911 dispatcher what resulted: the neighborhood watch coordinator, 5-foot-9 and 170 pounds, and the visitor, 6-foot-1 and 150, wrestling on the ground.
To my knowledge nobody anywhere has ever suggested that Zimmerman weighed 170 pounds [His friend did on March 27!]. I would say that the low bid I have seen is 220, although some people did remark that he looked smaller than they expected in the infamous ABC video taken the night he was brought in.
Trayvon Martin is consistently described as 140 lbs, although the police report had him at 160. The Sanford PD initial police report listed a weight for Martin but not Zimmerman; in retrospect, that will rank as one of the biggest blunders of their investigation.
http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2012/04/is-the-ny-times-breaking-news-or-breaking-wind.html
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Is this the same NBC that edited the call to make it sound racist? Yeah, good job with that one.
yes, i'm sure they fabricated the map
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yes, i'm sure they fabricated the map
Im going with your logic, youre the one that said that if a man "exaggerates" once (let alone lies), that everything they have to say on the subject is discredited.
Lord help you if that logic follows, hell if that were true, youd have discredited yourself with the 1st post on this subject.
And unlike your take on Zimmermans "60 seconds", NBC is actually launching an internal investigation into the matter. Just saying.
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Im going with your logic, youre the one that said that if a man "exaggerates" once (let alone lies), that everything they have to say on the subject is discredited.
Lord help you if that logic follows, hell if that were true, youd have discredited yourself with the 1st post on this subject.
And unlike your take on Zimmermans "60 seconds", NBC is actually launching an internal investigation into the matter. Just saying.
I stopped taking anything 240 says seriously years ago. He's a chronic liar and you'll rarely find him telling the truth about anything. Just a complete snake.
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Im going with your logic, youre the one that said that if a man "exaggerates" once (let alone lies), that everything they have to say on the subject is discredited.
lol - but he didn't exaggerate what he had for breakfast. He's exaxggerating the exact shit he killed the kid for.
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lol - but he didn't exaggerate what he had for breakfast. He's exaxggerating the exact shit he killed the kid for.
oh, gee, I didn't know that eating breakfast was the same adrenaline level as having your head split open on a curb. Oh, almost.forgot, his DAD said that, and its a non issue anyeayam
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oh, gee, I didn't know that eating breakfast was the same adrenaline level as having your head split open on a curb. Oh, almost.forgot, his DAD said that, and its a non issue anyeayam
then he should say he didn't know. unless you think his dad the judge was just making that shit up? are you accusing dad of lying now? I thought he said the kid told him the beatdown went on for 60 seconds. Now you say dad is lying?
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then he should say he didn't know. unless you think his dad the judge was just making that shit up? are you accusing dad of lying now? I thought he said the kid told him the beatdown went on for 60 seconds. Now you say dad is lying
I'm saying
a.it doesn't fucking matter. It has NO bearing on anything.
B.he probably just guessed, because the police probably asked him to give a TIME,
And
C.his dad may have been estimating, we don't know. And you can't possibly expect someone to give you an accurate time on which they were getting their head split open.
Hell you don't even know if he said that to his dad, and het you're ready to jump to all these conclusions about something that HAS NOTHING to do WITH ANYTHING. If the fight lasted 30 seconds it makes him no more or less guilty than if it lasted 20 fucking minutes.
You are becoming a very sad man Rob, find a new point, cause this one is worthless
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Zimmerman is a 21st century spadassinicide, (someone who manipulates people into initiating physical confrontations they have no hope of winning, and thus legally murdering them)…I know this statement will infuriate many of you…But the situation fulfills the definition exactly.
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Zimmerman is a 21st century spadassinicide, (someone who manipulates people into initiating physical confrontations they have no hope of winning, and thus legally murdering them)…I know this statement will infuriate many of you…But the situation fulfills the definition exactly.
It may very well be true. But theres no real proof of it, and he's innocent until proven guilty.
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Why does the media keep showing 6 year old pics of Trayvon? The period of innocence for that drug dealer died a looooooong time ago.
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Why does the media keep showing 6 year old pics of Trayvon? The period of innocence for that drug dealer died a looooooong time ago.
You know what i love most in this - the same gang of incompetent drones like benny, straw, 240, mal, blackass, et al who were all fluked up on the birth control nonsense now moved to this inconsequential issue all while avoiding the most prescient issues of the day.
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You know what i love most in this - the same gang of incompetent drones like benny, straw, 240, mal, blackass, et al who were all fluked up on the birth control nonsense now moved to this inconsequential issue all while avoiding the most prescient issues of the day.
Fuck you bitch. You post some of the most idiotic shit on the site. says your 80k posts...
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Fuck you bitch. You post some of the most idiotic shit on the site. says your 80k posts...
Yes I do, and I freely admit that. But this issue has been one where people completely are avoiding the actual facts of the matter in place of emotionalism.
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Yes I do, and I freely admit that. But this issue has been one where people completely are avoiding the actual facts of the matter in place of emotionalism.
Shut the fuck up chump. Its not an emotional. Its a fucking forum and none of us are working this case as an official. So we can inject our emotional response. Its not like its going to have an outcome on it. Its not unlike you Posting bullshit about $200/day... to envoke an emotional response. Or the whole Swat team Bullshit. Or your Bullshit letter saying your hike was from obama care...that actually turned out to be a result of something totally unrelated. Youre a fucking liar. But on top of that, you still post retarded shit like "the presidents playing golf". Who gives a shit. Or the fact that you ignore whatever is suits your agenda.. So you can go home, dim the lights, turn on some slow music, light some candles and go fuck yourself.
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Shut the fuck up chump. Its not an emotional. Its a fucking forum and none of us are working this case as an official. So we can inject our emotional response. Its not like its going to have an outcome on it. Its not unlike you Posting bullshit about $200/day... to envoke an emotional response. Or the whole Swat team Bullshit. Or your Bullshit letter saying your hike was from obama care...that actually turned out to be a result of something totally unrelated. Youre a fucking liar. But on top of that, you still post retarded shit like "the presidents playing golf". Who gives a shit. Or the fact that you ignore whatever is suits your agenda.. So you can go home, dim the lights, turn on some slow music, light some candles and go fuck yourself.
LOL. Everyone is getting massive premiuim hikes due to KenyaCare.
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check the MSNBC thread about them editing the 911 call and youll have your answer ;)
for all you know it was edited at just prior to airing to save a few seconds.....something that happens every day
an edit of a tape is not nearly enough information to draw some sweeping conclusion about a nefarious agenda
if they find out it was a conscious decision in an attempt to mislead then there might be something to it but so far we don't have that info
Given that the full call, transcripts etc.. and you can hear Zimmerman say "coon" later in the call it's not much of a smoking gun that they edited out a few seconds of the call
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for all you know it was edited at just prior to airing to save a few seconds.....something that happens every day
an edit of a tape is not nearly enough information to draw some sweeping conclusion about a nefarious agenda
if they find out it was a conscious decision in an attempt to mislead then there might be something to it but so far we don't have that info
Given that the full call, transcripts etc.. and you can hear Zimmerman say "####" later in the call it's not much of a smoking gun that they edited out a few seconds of the call
LOL. as Dan rather would say "Fake but accurate" right?
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LOL. as Dan rather would say "Fake but accurate" right?
nothing fake about it
stuff gets edited all the time, usually to save time (yes, they count seconds on TV)
I don't think they should have done it but it's impossible to draw a conclusion as to motive/agenda...unless of course you're the worlds worst lawyer and then it's ironclad proof of a vast conspiracy
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nothing fake about it
stuff gets edited all the time, usually to save time (yes, they count seconds on TV)
I don't think they should have done it but it's impossible to draw a conclusion as to motive/agenda...unless of course you're the worlds worst lawyer and then it's ironclad proof of a vast conspiracy
Right. ::) ::)
Speaking of bad lawyers - Obama does not even remember Marbury vs. Madison.
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A brief moment of sanity from 333 ?
Fuck you bitch. You post some of the most idiotic shit on the site. says your 80k posts...
Yes I do, and I freely admit that. But this issue has been one where people completely are avoiding the actual facts of the matter in place of emotionalism.
[/quote
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Lol. I donno the more I hear about this case the more I think neighborhood watchman shouldnt be carrying guns. Zimmerman may have been in A life threatening situation, but how is that going to be proven?
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Lol. ::)
which part are you laughing at
we don't know why they edited it
If it was solely to try to make it sound racist there was no reason to do that because the Zimmerman said fucking c00n a few seconds later
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Very true. We dont know the exact reason why they edited it. I have my guesses but they are sepculative. I am laughing at you. Lol. At least your argumemt is different than the other turds on here. And i find the way you laid it out funny. And i find the guess that they edited it for time, very funny. Although one cannot prove your theory wrong it is funny, to me.
Lets get back to the facts of the shooting. And lets focus on the statements made by the responders on the scene. Lets see the statement from the paramedics that treated him at the scene. Lets here from the policeman, what is their statements? I have yet to see someone lay out a good argument as to the facts of the case. Only the uneducated, regurgitating media machinations and hyping up racial tension. My main argument is not to defend zim. It is to state the unlikelyhood of a cover up/ conspiracy involving states attorney, the police department, the paramedics that responded on the scene, the hospital where he was treated... Would you speak to whether yo believe in this cover up/ conspiracy?
feel free to share whatever you've got
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Wanting to hear from you.
about what
I've commented on the tape and also on this event
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Zimmerman neighbor on robberies by ‘young black men’ before Trayvon shooting: ‘If you plant corn,
Yahoo! News ^ | April 3, 2012 | Dylan Stableford
Posted on April 3, 2012 3:06:59 PM EDT by Free ThinkerNY
George Zimmerman's Sanford, Fla., neighbor, said the neighborhood watchman protected his residence from a potential burglary several weeks before the shooting of Trayvon Martin.
Frank Taaffe, a former neighborhood watch captain, told CNN that his house was in the process of being robbed on Feb. 2, but Zimmerman called Sanford police, who thwarted the robbery.
"My house was being robbed, and George on his nightly rounds watched this burglary in progress, called Sanford P.D., waited for them, and helped ensure that nothing bad happened to my house," Taaffe said. "And it's documented in the 911 call for February 2. That was my residence that George Zimmerman helped stop." Zimmerman shot and killed Martin on Feb. 26.
"Neighbor-hood, that's a great word," Taaffe said.
Taaffe said that "young black males" were the perpetrators in the attempted robbery of his home. "We had eight burglaries in our neighborhood all perpetrated by young black males in the 15 months prior to Trayvon being shot," Taaffe said. "It would have been nine."
Taaffe denied that he told the New York Times that burglaries were done by "Trayvon-like dudes with their pants down."
"I never said that," he said. "I never used that term."
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
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You didnt answer my question about cover up conspiracy.
no way to draw a conclusion about either at this point
my spec is on ineptitude and cya
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You think it is down to mishandled by the police and exagerations by zimmerman, to cover his ass? And that the police are now trying to cover up their mishandling of the case?
I believe this is the narrative suppoted by some. Not sure if this is you or not, but if it is. I have to disagree.
fine with me
If you've got some compelling info then feel free to share
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Zimmerman was a vigilante and not a Neighborhood Watchman.
"Zimmerman also blatantly violated major principles of the Neighborhood Watch manual, ABC News has learned.
The manual, from the National Neighborhood Watch Program, states: "It should be emphasized to members that they do not possess police powers, and they shall not carry weapons or pursue vehicles. They should also be cautioned to alert police or deputies when encountering strange activity. Members should never confront suspicious persons who could be armed and dangerous..."
According to Chris Tutko, the director of the National Neighborhood Watch Program, there are about 22,000 registered watch groups nationwide, and Zimmerman was not part of a registered group -- another fact the police were not aware of at the time of the incident."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/neighborhood-watchman-killed-trayvon-martin-neighborhood-watch-guidelines/story?id=15955985#.T2f8wczBp7w
""I'm disappointed that people are trying to put blame onto the program when it's not the program's fault," said Wendy Dorival, who coordinates volunteer programs, including Neighborhood Watch, for the Sanford police. "Neighborhood Watch is not what took his life away"...."
"...Neighborhood Watch, by contrast, is less formal and is run by residents — although volunteers in both programs are told not to confront anyone. Their job is to observe and describe suspicious people or cars to law officers and help make their neighbors aware of problems.
"We tell people, 'Don't be a hero,'" Dorival said. "Don't risk it.""
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-24/news/os-trayvon-martin-neighborhood-watch-20120321_1_zimmerman-community-ties-neighborhood-watch
Zimmerman was supposedly on his way to Target and was legally allowed to carry a firearm as he had a concealed carry weapons permit. I do not know if Zimmerman normally carried a gun with him when he was on Neighborhood Watch patrol. If he did and certainly when he spotted Trayvon, he disregard key parts of his training. Don't confront and don't carry a weapon. The second he stepped out of his SUV, Zimmerman became a vigilante. Maybe his neighbor explains his actions best:
"I think any time you use a weapon, there are certain anger issues working," Taaffe said. "I think he had fed-up issues. He was mad as hell and wasn't going to take it anymore."
http://motherjones.com/politics/2012/03/what-happened-trayvon-martin-explained
On a side note, until such time as Zimmerman is formally arrested for commission of a felony, he can carry a gun.
"The department shall suspend a license if the licensee is arrested or formally charged with a felony. The suspension will last until the case is over."
http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2012/03/despite-groups-demand-adam-putnam-says-he-cant-suspend-concealed-carry-permit-of-trayvon-martins-sho.html
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So he wasn't in a registered NW program?
Interesting.
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actually, he said 3 steps - he has something in his waistband. He is pulling it out. He has something in his hand. 3 steps to drawing a weapon - textbook legal CCW shoot, homie ;) That shit is all over the survivalist boards. the gun nuts know it. You detail the steps of him drawing so it's a legal shoot. adding 'he looks to be on drugs' helps too lol.
he knew exactly what to say to have cops shot up in felony arrest mode. you know it. you can play naive and say "no, i think he really believed it" - then you have to tell us why this man would chase an armed high man two blocks into the darkness. He woudln't.
I just wish we could have a little honesty here. I think the shoot was legal technicaly and zimmerman shouldn't be charged - but i do think he should be charged for being a lying fuck and do 2 years fo robstruction and lying to police. he's making shit tougher for permit holders for 20 years, and good fcking luck getting stand-your-ground in the other 30 states after this ass-hat abused it.
More solid logic from you.
It was a justified shoot, but it ruins it for all the other justified shoots. ::)
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It was a justified shoot, but it ruins it for all the other justified shoots. ::)
It's exactly the case. In FL, you can have a perfectly legal shoot - in a situation that you go out of your way to create - and you stay out of jail.
I can walk up and down the street in cracktown insulting people's mothers until someone knocks me down. Then I can shoot them. And as long as I claim to police "I feared for my life", it's legal.
Did you see the Tampa Bay Times coming at permits now? And that state senator (I think that was his title) calling out Rick Scott for permits? Watch and see, it's only starting. Gun rights will erode thanks to this assclown zimmerman who violated the neighborhood watch rulebook he claimed to live by. Dude wanted to play hero, and he's gonna fuuck up permit rights. Watch and see.
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By the way, zimmerman's father claimed his son was beaten for 60 seconds. And he had one laceration on his head. That's frickin incredible. He should be a pro boxer or UFC fighter or something. 60 seconds of smashing head on concrete and he has one boo-boo. Serious toughness there.
or, his dad's a fcking liar. it's one of the two ;)
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By the way, zimmerman's father claimed his son was beaten for 60 seconds. And he had one laceration on his head. That's frickin incredible. He should be a pro boxer or UFC fighter or something. 60 seconds of smashing head on concrete and he has one boo-boo. Serious toughness there.
or, his dad's a fcking liar. it's one of the two ;)
Jesus Christ, cut it out with the 60 second bullshit, no one cares.
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Jesus Christ, cut it out with the 60 second bullshit, no one cares.
yeah.. screw all that... real statements and shit....hella facts... screw that shit... we got his side of the story and thats good enough for me ;D
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http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/04/05/CNN-Coon-Cold-Zimmerman
Another leftist lie debunked.
Zimmerman = winning.
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yeah.. screw all that... real statements and shit....hella facts... screw that shit... we got his side of the story and thats good enough for me ;D
Statements by who, the Dad? Yeah, cause his dads the one thats gonna be on trial... Maybe if you paid attention you'd see that it was his DAD that said that. :-\ ::)
I see youre really worried about those REAL STATEMENTS, lol.
Still waiting on the "known facts" that point towards him being guilty.
Not to mention its something that has nothing to do with the case.
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Statements by who, the Dad? Yeah, cause his dads the one thats gonna be on trial... Maybe if you paid attention you'd see that it was his DAD that said that. :-\ ::)
I see youre really worried about those REAL STATEMENTS, lol.
Still waiting on the "known facts" that point towards him being guilty.
Not to mention its something that has nothing to do with the case.
and who do you think told his dad?... ??? you think his pops came up with that out of the blue..
And from the "known Facts" i think he needs to be arrested and tried just as anyone who killed someone with a record of police and domestic violence
Guy with gun sees kid with juice...
Guy with gun kills kid with juice...
Guy with gun says kid with juice attacked him first..
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and who do you think told his dad?... ??? you think his pops came up with that out of the blue..
And from the "known Facts" i think he needs to be arrested and tried just as anyone who killed someone with a record of police and domestic violence
Guy with gun sees kid with juice...
Guy with gun kills kid with juice...
Guy with gun says kid with juice attacked him first..
If Zimmerman wanted to kill him - why get in a street altercation at all?
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If Zimmerman wanted to kill him - why get in a street altercation at all?
Ah. Hmmm. Eh. Because he was black? This is what is being portrayed by the shameless media.
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If Zimmerman wanted to kill him - why get in a street altercation at all?
HE DID
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HE DID
::) ::)