Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: KGV on April 10, 2012, 09:08:34 AM
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A waste of money.
There are worthwhile supplements out there, this just isn't one of them. A good mulch-vitamin or something like Juice Plus, a vitamin D supplement, maybe some calcium fish oil and things like that is about all that's really worth your time. Probably cost you less per yr than two months worth of creatine.
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Useless.
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Not applicable in a single recipe.
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I give you permission to post one more topic on Getbig, redemption is your final path.
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titless
Fixed
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let me put it this way, i took it for years in my teens and never made it past 175lbs. you be the judge.
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let me put it this way, i took it for years in my teens and never made it past 175lbs. you be the judge.
If you can't get past 175lb while megadosing creatine then your genetics must suck bro.
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Every individual responds differently to creatine supplementation.
But even for someone who responds well to it (and with creatine, responding "well" might be to simply not shit your drawers every hour), the greatest advantage is in workout-to-workout performance. As in, if you're a strength athlete, it might work best for you. The size gain is water volume which does aid top-end lifting performance. This ability to train with greater poundage (minor as the benefit likely will be) could conceivably help, over time, to build a larger musculature.
It comes down to: what are your goals and how do you "take" to the supplement? Then it's a matter of weighing the cost-to-benefit deal.
I'd say, for most, the money spent on creatine is largely wasteful. But for the hardcore strength athlete, who prizes performance above all, it can be beneficial.
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very useful for responders during carb-loads, i use it all the time with ud2 diet
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Every individual responds differently to creatine supplementation.
But even for someone who responds well to it (and with creatine, responding "well" might be to simply not shit your drawers every hour), the greatest advantage is in workout-to-workout performance. As in, if you're a strength athlete, it might work best for you. The size gain is water volume which does aid top-end lifting performance. This ability to train with greater poundage (minor as the benefit likely will be) could conceivably help, over time, to build a larger musculature.
It comes down to: what are your goals and how do you "take" to the supplement? Then it's a matter of weighing the cost-to-benefit deal.
I'd say, for most, the money spent on creatine is largely wasteful. But for the hardcore strength athlete, who prizes performance above all, it can be beneficial.
I'm in agreement with this, it's helpful for getting a small performance bump or maintaining performance during stressful times like dieting..... And by small, I mean a rep or two, or maybe 5-10lbs on the major lifts.
Also make sure to say well hydrated on it, as I got older I found I was more injury prone on it, if I didn't keep an eye on that.
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If you can't get past 175lb while megadosing creatine then you must not be fat.
fixed
and if you don't believe me, read gh15's numbers about naturals.
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The size gain is water volume
water gains? yes, just what i wanted!
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A waste of money.
There are worthwhile supplements out there, this just isn't one of them. A good mulch-vitamin or something like Juice Plus, a vitamin D supplement, maybe some calcium fish oil and things like that is about all that's really worth your time. Probably cost you less per yr than two months worth of creatine.
Must add magnesium to list. A lot of doctors even saying now hoe the 2 to 1 ratio of cal n mag is horrible. To much calcium builds up in Ur arteries magnesium gets rid of this build up. Along with mag is used for over 300 diff enyzmatic propertys in the body.
If anything besides a multi. extra
Vit d. shown to reverse cancerous cells n prevent all types of cancer. 8000 or more iu day. 500 or more mag. Niacin on its own empty stomach for gh increase n blood pressure n good n bad cholesterol.
Zinc
N I'd say that's about it for stuff that's to low in any multi.
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It made me shit like a fucker
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German or domestic?
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Garbage
Or in other words "balonie" ;D
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Creatine works and works well.
In 2 years of consistent usage when i first started lifting around 17, i went from 165 to 224lb in just under 2 years with visible ab lines (top 2 always) and solid size. Alongside creatine, i always used whey, multi-vitamins, ginseng (vials), weight gainers, ephedrine, vanadyl sulfate, and sublingual GH releasers. Strength and size were in sync. Bench went from 185 for 10-12 reps to 225*9. Squat from 225*10 to 295*10 fairly easy. Deadlift 275lb*10 to 325*8-10. Then i was on my death bed no so long after. And took about 7-8 year lay off from any type of workouts. When i did start back up - started with the whey and creatine again. Got back to former self within about a year. Only 11+ years later did i for the first time use Test/var and now on 2nd cycle. In fact, i can say using creatine is the equivalent of using 500mg test weekly.
Furthermore, I learned on 2nd cycle not to mix Creatine with AAS. It throws all the blood work numbers off, and the muscle cramps and spasms are notorious. My response to any supra-physiological usage of supplements and AAS is explosive, i find. Towards the last 8 weeks of 1st 18wk test e/c cycle added 20mg Anavar, literally things changed within a week. Went from a blow fish look to a solid fish with visible vascularity everywhere except abdominal region.
By the way those thinking of using creatine alongside AAS, don't IMHO. My doctor told me when he initially saw the blood work to start making arrangements. So i started digging a grave about 1 foot each day in the backyard. I got to about 5 feet before the internal medicine specialist said you're within the norm. On top of the blood work, i had everything thoroughly tested including heart, lungs, and liver. ;D
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I have heard time and time again about how guys feel nothing taking creatine. The first time I took German creatine I was amazed at the gains I made. My muscles felt dense and I got stronger quick. The muscles got a tight feel to them and I have heard guys claim they ripped muscles while taking creatine.
I used creatine for many years after that. The main creatine I used was German. When I hear guys say that they didn't get anything from Creatine the explanation I get is that some are responders and some are not. I don't know if I buy that. Could the brand I bought have a little something extra in it? I have since used creatine and suddenly I don't get the same response I use to get all those years. What's different? I really don't know.
On a side note my kidney tests started to come back bad when I had blood work. The doctor told me to stop using creatine and the test improved. Some have said creatine can alter kidney tests but it's a false positive. If this is true, I don't know. I haven't used it in 7 months and I'm willing to use a low dose of maybe 2 to 4 g's.
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Creatine works and works well.
In 2 years of consistent usage when i first started lifting around 17, i went from 165 to 224lb in just under 2 years with visible ab lines (top 2 always) and solid size. Alongside creatine, i always used whey, weight gainers, ephedrine, vanadyl sulfate, and sublingual GH releasers. Strength and size were in sync. Bench went from 185 for 10-12 reps to 225*9. Squat from 225*10 to 295*10 fairly easy. Deadlift 275lb*10 to 325*8-10. Then i was on my death bed no so long after just before 21. And took about 7-8 year lay off from any type of workouts. When i did start back up - started with the whey and creatine again. Got back to former self within about a year. Only 11+ years later did i for the first time use Test/var and now on 2nd cycle. In fact, i can say using creatine is the equivalent of using 500mg test weekly.
Furthermore, I learned on 2nd cycle not to mix Creatine with AAS. It throws all the blood work numbers off, and the muscle cramps and spasms are notorious. My response to any supra-physiological usage of supplements and AAS is explosive, i find. Towards the last 8 weeks of 1st 18wk test e/c cycle added 20mg Anavar, literally things changed within a week. Went from a blow fish look to a solid fish with visible vascularity everywhere except abdominal region.
By the way those thinking of using creatine alongside AAS, don't IMHO. My doctor told me when he initially saw the blood work to start making arrangements. So i started digging a grave about a 1 foot each day in the backyard. I got to about 5 feet before the internal medicine specialist said you're within the norm. On top of the blood work, i had everything thoroughly tested including heart, lungs, and liver. ;D
(http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/217/264/66465199_did-not-read_gif.gif)
(http://www.gifsforum.com/images/gif/did%20not%20read/grand/didnt_read_old_school_dance_gif.gif)
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fixed
and if you don't believe me, read gh15's numbers about naturals.
Kidding bro. ;)
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let me put it this way, i took it for years in my teens and never made it past 175lbs. you be the judge.
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and if you don't believe me, read gh15's numbers about naturals.
GH15 numbers apply to meat heads not creatine users, nor any other naturals. His context of #'s is only applicable with competitive athletes (stage ready) and what is possible in terms of weight and bodyfat.
What kind of cookie cutter bullshit is it that you are defending you lack of response to a natural limit offered by your guru GH15?
You just have shits for genetics. Don't blame yourself, blame your parents.
Couldn't get past 175lb? Really?
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Creatine is GARBAGE!
Reason why you should never take creatine :
1) Creatine is ineffective as muscle builder
2) Creatine is ineffective as strenght enhancer
3) Creatine will blur your muscle definition making you hold unwanted water
4) Creatine will give you diarrhea
5) Creatine will fuck up your kidney in the long run
Creatine is the MOST DANGEROUS SUPPLEMENT OUT THERE with pro-hormone and should be banned for sale
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GH15 numbers are fucking spot on for everyone.
fixed to reflect the truth
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It will give you gyno and you'll lose your hair. BE VERY CAREFUL OP!
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Here let me correct a few things for you Max, since getbig mentality is to start pumping in a few grams of androgens a week, soon as one is old enough to walk.
Creatine is ...
Reason why you should take creatine
1) Creatine is ineffective as muscle builder = FALSE This level of bullshit is at the same level as Iraq having WMD's.
2) Creatine is ineffective as strenght enhancer = BULLSHIT - VERY EFFECTIVE
3) Creatine will blur your muscle definition making you hold unwanted water = TRUE while on
4) Creatine will give you diarrhea = TRUE sometimes
5) Creatine will fuck up your kidney in the long run = THAT'S BEEN SAID FOR 20 YEARS. NO EVIDENCE. I've used it for over for over 15 years on/off, no problems.
Creatine is the MOST DANGEROUS SUPPLEMENT (MORE BULLCRAP) OUT THERE with pro-hormone and should be banned for sale
Just because we are all on getbig, we get it -- start ::) shooting up gear early as possible. Not every 17 year old that walks in needs too start of with a cycle of test or anything for that matter. For christ sakes what happened to laying a foundation. If one cannot build a foundation naturally in a certain time and frame, you're in the wrong game.
Let's not all be brainwashed by every GH15 commandment. Yes, he gives great info to beginners and experienced alike, but use it with discretion if you are just starting out. Things were done without GH before and will continue that way long after he's gone. And nor is his approach advocated for every 140lb twink.
Hey, then again who am i to say 3 grams of steroids a week and 25iu of GH ed can't take care of ones mediocre genetics.
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Just because we are all on getbig, we get it -- start ::) shooting up gear early as possible. Not every 17 year old that walks in needs too start of with a cycle of test or anything for that matter. For christ sakes what happened to laying a foundation. If one cannot build a foundation naturally in a certain time and frame, you're in the wrong game.
Let's not all be brainwashed by every GH15 commandment. Things were done without GH before and will continue that way long after he's gone. And nor is it advocated for every 140lb twink.
Hey, then again who am i to say 3 grams of steroids a week and 25iu of GH can't take care of ones shit for genetics.
GTFO calling creatine very effective for strength or muscle building.
What do you own a supplement company?
It's effects are marginal at best, like extremely marginal.
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GTFO calling creatine very effective for strength or muscle building.
Yes, very effective.
Is this threatening your sourcing on GB?
Freedom of speech. So STFU. Everyone has an opinion and it counts. Not just your guru GH15 and you the minions.
What do you own a supplement company?
Yes, since it's so profitable.
...
Look i just sold another 1kg tub and made .10 cents. :o
It's effects are marginal at best, like extremely marginal.
The only thing marginal is your response. Again blame the genetics bro. You are the type who will require 2 grams of gear to even have a response, whereas another user will do fine just with 750mg.
And you douche bags stop turning this into a piss match, because it is something you disagree with. The gentleman simply asked about creatine, we are all trying to give our honest experience with it. So take it for FWIW.
Stop this high school shit "didn't read it" or whatever else the fuck you are doing. Grow the fuck up or GTFO.
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completely useless. I used it for 7 years straight and got nothing out of it. It sure as hell didn't help me when I was natural either for the bulk of that time
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Creatine works and works well.
In 2 years of consistent usage when i first started lifting around 17, i went from 165 to 224lb in just under 2 years with visible ab lines (top 2 always) and solid size. Alongside creatine, i always used whey, multi-vitamins, ginseng (vials), weight gainers, ephedrine, vanadyl sulfate, and sublingual GH releasers. Strength and size were in sync. Bench went from 185 for 10-12 reps to 225*9. Squat from 225*10 to 295*10 fairly easy. Deadlift 275lb*10 to 325*8-10. Then i was on my death bed no so long after. And took about 7-8 year lay off from any type of workouts. When i did start back up - started with the whey and creatine again. Got back to former self within about a year. Only 11+ years later did i for the first time use Test/var and now on 2nd cycle. In fact, i can say using creatine is the equivalent of using 500mg test weekly.
Furthermore, I learned on 2nd cycle not to mix Creatine with AAS. It throws all the blood work numbers off, and the muscle cramps and spasms are notorious. My response to any supra-physiological usage of supplements and AAS is explosive, i find. Towards the last 8 weeks of 1st 18wk test e/c cycle added 20mg Anavar, literally things changed within a week. Went from a blow fish look to a solid fish with visible vascularity everywhere except abdominal region.
By the way those thinking of using creatine alongside AAS, don't IMHO. My doctor told me when he initially saw the blood work to start making arrangements. So i started digging a grave about 1 foot each day in the backyard. I got to about 5 feet before the internal medicine specialist said you're within the norm. On top of the blood work, i had everything thoroughly tested including heart, lungs, and liver. ;D
It looks like (from those numbers) that your strength actually went down in relation to your weight with creatine.
Isn't creatine supposed to work really well with anavar?
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I never gained water weight from it
I never lost hair from it
I never got diarear from it
I never had kidney problems from it
I never got results from it
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My theory regarding creatine respond is that it works best for people with low natural oestrogen into blood
They are holding less water normally, which the creatine changes pretty fast
I used it for about 3 weeks when i just started training ( 11 months ago ) and responded really really good ( especially pump at training ) and I was/am skinny kid and naturally not holding much water
I stopped usage because my face became less lean due to water, I hated it so I stopped, but the fact that my face looked different shows that I responded great to the effect of holding more water
Was also 9,99$/ 500g monohydrate from germany
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And you douche bags stop turning this into a piss match, because it is something you disagree with. The gentleman simply asked about creatine, we are all trying to give our honest experience with it. So take it for FWIW.
Stop this high school shit "didn't read it" or whatever else the fuck you are doing. Grow the fuck up or GTFO.
I have a hyper response to all drugs, good and bad lol. Comparing creatine to anabolics is amusing to say the least.
Creatine is useless, perhaps you are confused in regards to the english language and the way you word things.
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I ended up in hospital after a couple weeks taking it. I followed instructions, did not abuse it and drank plenty of water.
My sister who is a pharmacist warned me before taking it how dangerous it is etc I assumed I would be fine.
I now have one functioning kidney.
The Urologists were unsure if it was the creatine that caused it or highlighted it. Not touched it since.
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Ursus almost died for you bitches.
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I ended up in hospital after a couple weeks taking it. I followed instructions, did not abuse it and drank plenty of water.
My sister who is a pharmacist warned me before taking it how dangerous it is etc I assumed I would be fine.
I now have one functioning kidney.
The Urologists were unsure if it was the creatine that caused it or highlighted it. Not touched it since.
Were you injecting the creatine?
... no just kidding. ;D
Sorry to hear bro, never had a problem in all my years. I always used the powder and still do. Never had any underlying problems or any other medical problems. I had to stop while i was on Test, Eq, and Tren due to blood work (high creatinine and eGfr #'s). I stopped and everything was back to normal within 3 weeks.
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completely useless. I used it for 7 years straight and got nothing out of it. It sure as hell didn't help me when I was natural either for the bulk of that time
What took you so long to stop bro?
I usually try things once or twice. If it's a no show. Then you move on.
P.S. One more thing the purple Ks or concrete are not comparable in any way IMHO. They are a waste of time and money.
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1. Buy a tub of Creatine monohydrate and use it for 3 months track your workouts.
2. Workout 3 months without it.
3. Make your own mind up.
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Were you injecting the creatine?
... no just kidding. ;D
Sorry to hear bro, never had a problem in all my years. I always used the powder and still do. Never had any underlying problems or any other medical problems. I had to stop while i was on Test, Eq, and Tren due to blood work (high creatinine and eGfr #'s). I stopped and everything was back to normal within 3 weeks.
LOL @ noc
I took the monohydrate. I remember reading teh pack saying do not take if you had kidney problems. Never had any kidney problems so assumed I was safe though in hindsight I remember a few times in my mid teens being in absolute pain on a Sunday night for some reason in my right hand side of my back (where non functioning kidney is). I put this down to drinking lots of lemonade we got delivered to the house on a Friday and gorging on it whereas it was likely a problem being highlighted by the lemonade or something in lemonade.
I can't take it now. It used to annoy me as it basically makes you 5% stronger year on year.
Training is fun for me now so i do not mind much. My BP and cholesterol is fine though and I recently reduced the amount of rubbish I ate etc and I feel much better for it.
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GH15 numbers apply to meat heads not creatine users, nor any other naturals. His context of #'s is only applicable with competitive athletes (stage ready) and what is possible in terms of weight and bodyfat.
What kind of cookie cutter bullshit is it that you are defending you lack of response to a natural limit offered by your guru GH15?
You just have shits for genetics. Don't blame yourself, blame your parents.
Couldn't get past 175lb? Really?
you see what this fella write here? you see HOW he wrote it?
this is mature way of disagreeing,, this is how you write and you make even fellas who dont agre with you readit and be lik e...oh im talking here to someone with some expericne andbrain ,, why cant this place hav emore like this fella? thi sis exactly what i talk about,, notice how he disagree but...he keep his information and his points in ...he make sure he keep the other fella point of views on ...and he simply knwo who to fucking deliver,, is this that hard to do ? i guess so
cary on ,,
gh15 approved
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Creatine marginally improves strength/power with burst activities (ie powerlifting) and slightly improves muscle recovery in sports medicine/sports nutrition medical studies. Also hydrates the muscle, which is good. Odd thing is that a smaller % of people have no response to creatine. Some get excess water retention. Creatine does not injure the kidneys directly (dehydration can so drink lots of water). Creatine is converted into creatinine and ill informed doctors think the creatine is causing kidney damage because creatinine is elevated. BUN and creatinine are used as markers of kidney function in general medicine. What many don't realize is creatinine is a direct metabolic product of creatine, not a pure specific marker for kidney damage. My creatinine has been 1.6-2.0 on lab tests on creatine, drops to 1.4 within a week of stopping.
For those that say creatine is worthless (other than the 10% of nonresponders), you're comparing it to AAS...which is far more potent...and many of you guys use way to many drugs that may catch up with you later.
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creatine worked well when i was a natural
it gave me slightly better strength and increased muscular endurance
however it caused me to bloat up quite a bit and retain way too much water in my face so i stopped it
i took 10g daily
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Creatine marginally improves strength/power with burst activities (ie powerlifting) and slightly improves muscle recovery in sports medicine/sports nutrition medical studies. Also hydrates the muscle, which is good. Odd thing is that a smaller % of people have no response to creatine. Some get excess water retention. Creatine does not injure the kidneys directly (dehydration can so drink lots of water). Creatine is converted into creatinine and ill informed doctors think the creatine is causing kidney damage because creatinine is elevated. BUN and creatinine are used as markers of kidney function in general medicine. What many don't realize is creatinine is a direct metabolic product of creatine, not a pure specific marker for kidney damage. My creatinine has been 1.6-2.0 on lab tests on creatine, drops to 1.4 within a week of stopping.
For those that say creatine is worthless (other than the 10% of nonresponders), you're comparing it to AAS...which is far more potent...and many of you guys use way to many drugs that may catch up with you later.
there's lots of different creatines out there and some are complete bunk ("serums" being the top example), personally i prefer micronized monohydrate, the crystals are much smaller and seem to absorb better and i don't get that dreaded stomach upset with it (well less than mono anyways), and it's basically mono which to my understanding is the only one with scientific backing and results. one thing i noticed though is you build a tolerance to it very quickly.
it's a bit tricky to use properly though, there's entire sites dedicated to just creatine and protocols.
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CREAPURE from Germany is the only form of creatine that works for me. The rest were useless.
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you see what this fella write here? you see HOW he wrote it?
this is mature way of disagreeing,, this is how you write and you make even fellas who dont agre with you readit and be lik e...oh im talking here to someone with some expericne andbrain ,, why cant this place hav emore like this fella? thi sis exactly what i talk about,, notice how he disagree but...he keep his information and his points in ...he make sure he keep the other fella point of views on ...and he simply knwo who to fucking deliver,, is this that hard to do ? i guess so
cary on ,,
gh15 approved
wow, you of all people... you the one always talking about danta protein, etc... let me tell you something 15. when i was motherfucking 12 years old i walked into the mall and i saw a poster at the front of gnc. this poster had the upper body of a top bodybuilder level and in big letters it had the word "creatine". IT'S A FUCKING INTENTIONALLY MISLEADING SCAM FOR MONEY!!! and because of this shit i believed for years that my lack of substantial (magazine esque) gains was because i just wasn't training hard enough—bull shit! i had one of the best diets of anyone in my highschool. my mother was a health nut. i knew how to eat and i knew how to exercise. i got to were i was lunging over 200lbs. two plates on each side of the short bar. my legs got no bigger. i watch a video on the internet. ronnie coleman lunging with one fucking plate on each side, but with four times the fucking leg diameter.
has nothing to do with my genetics. when i finally got on hormones i responded like a freak. and i will prove it to you and the other flaming punk that you quoted in a couple weeks i will post a picture. GENETICS MY ASS.
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I take 5 g before work out, 5 g after.
I don't load, I don't cycle.
If I'm not lifting, be it 1 day, or 1 week, I don't take it!
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only with anavar :)
i've heard this being mentioned before, can someone explain to me please?
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wow, you of all people... you the one always talking about danta protein, etc... let me tell you something 15. when i was motherfucking 12 years old i walked into the mall and i saw a poster at the front of gnc. this poster had the upper body of a top bodybuilder level and in big letters it had the word "creatine". IT'S A FUCKING INTENTIONALLY MISLEADING SCAM FOR MONEY!!! and because of this shit i believed for years that my lack of substantial (magazine esque) gains was because i just wasn't training hard enough—bull shit! i had one of the best diets of anyone in my highschool. my mother was a health nut. i knew how to eat and i knew how to exercise. i got to were i was lunging over 200lbs. two plates on each side of the short bar. my legs got no bigger. i watch a video on the internet. ronnie coleman lunging with one fucking plate on each side, but with four times the fucking leg diameter.
has nothing to do with my genetics. when i finally got on hormones i responded like a freak. and i will prove it to you and the other flaming punk that you quoted in a couple weeks i will post a picture. GENETICS MY ASS.
oh im with you on this one friend,, dont have a doubt about it ,, i just like the way he write he giev both sides in somewhat fair way ,, he has THE FUCKING DECENCY to do it ,, i agree with you 100 thouhg
gh15 approved
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completely useless. I used it for 7 years straight and got nothing out of it. It sure as hell didn't help me when I was natural either for the bulk of that time
Quitter.
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Excerpt from gh15...no science explanation if thats what youre looking for.
"oxandrolona = more female drug ,,it is needed to be taken in higher dose to get what you want as a bodybuilr male ,,if you can take 75mg and over 75 to 150mg a day it will lean you out and get the stupid creatine yo utake a purpose because finally you will thicken from within while getting lean and not thicken from the outside,,,aka water retention finaly will be mostly within the muscle and not between muscle and skin like with the stupid creatine"
oh ok, thanks
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What the fuck this thread made me buy creatine
Just ordered german creapure
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it s all water retention. Long term use ruins your kidneys.
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The good thing about water retention is that for me personally it gave like 1 inch to my arms
The bad thing is the retention in face, definately not that lean look
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My experience with creatine over the years has for the most part been negative when it really didnt do much for me. It only worked the best the first time I used it, and I noticed a huge difference in strength gain. Cant remember how much mass it added though, but hey - with strength comes mass, so I guess it helped there as well. But later on it didnt do much for me at all, no matter how many different and popular creatine products I tried. And so in the end I just stopped wasting money on them and quit using them since it didnt really matter if I was on them or not.
Today is a different story though, Ive begun to use creatine again, more specifically Creatine Monohydrate since this is has been proven scientifically to be the best product. And I have to agree, because I actually do see/feel a difference in strength/mass gain when using it. And the best part is that its cheap too! As far as the water retention goes, I cant say to see that much of a difference on them or not, and I certaintly dont have any problem staying lean while on creatine. Its all in the diet folks, and with added cardio as well - it should do the trick regardless if your on creatine or not.
So my conclusion is, creatine is one of those rare products that actually works, and I think its a nice investment if your a bodybuilder.
True approved.
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with strength comes mass
yeah, well not really. for example i have no biceps and i have no problem curling 30 lb dumbells. kai greene also curls 30 lb dumbells, but our biceps—there's no comparison.
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yeah, well not really. for example i have no biceps and i have no problem curling 30 lb dumbells. kai greene also curls 30 lb dumbells, but our biceps—there's no comparison.
well i think in kai's case the drug abuse is the defining factor.
but strength does generally promote more myofibrillar hypertrophy, i personally believe that it's no coincidence that successful bb'ers like ronnie and dorian were focused much more on strength and almost powerlifting-style routines than doing set after set of moderate weights like kai or cutler. even arnold had fairly impressive squat and dl numbers.
imo "strength" muscle just feels more solid and more permanent. that's just my opinion tho
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yeah, well not really. for example i have no biceps and i have no problem curling 30 lb dumbells. kai greene also curls 30 lb dumbells, but our biceps—there's no comparison.
dont listen to rubish ,, creatine is rubish ,, it is just like any other suplement out there made to get to the parents walet and steal the money in a shady way ... a greay area..by the way just so its clear...fella like rich gaspari is not only a suplement distibuter...he is also DRUG DEALER,, it need to be known ,, it is hwo it is in bodybuild,, thats why no one ever sue anyone for eveyone is a felon in some way or another,,
sue me,, im waiting...
gh15 approved
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dont listen to rubish ,, creatine is rubish ,, it is just like any other suplement out there made to get to the parents walet and steal the money in a shady way ... a greay area..by the way just so its clear...fella like rich gaspari is not only a suplement distibuter...he is also DRUG DEALER,, it need to be known ,, it is hwo it is in bodybuild,, thats why no one ever sue anyone for eveyone is a felon in some way or another,,
sue me,, im waiting...
gh15 approved
Is this even English? Just busting balls. I guess English is a second language for you.
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dont listen to rubish ,, creatine is rubish ,, it is just like any other suplement out there made to get to the parents walet and steal the money in a shady way ... a greay area..by the way just so its clear...fella like rich gaspari is not only a suplement distibuter...he is also DRUG DEALER,, it need to be known ,, it is hwo it is in bodybuild,, thats why no one ever sue anyone for eveyone is a felon in some way or another,,
sue me,, im waiting...
gh15 approved
is ripped.com your site or just an alexa23 scam? every thread about it gets moved or deleted
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I have a hyper response to all drugs, good and bad lol. Comparing creatine to anabolics is amusing to say the least.
Creatine is useless, perhaps you are confused in regards to the english language and the way you word things.
Jaime i'll repeat this again since English is your second language. You know it's never to late too get a GED. If my writing style is too difficult for you to comprehend, i definitely recommend the latter.
As to your genetics blame your parents not yourself for the shitty response. You are a byproduct of a defective gene. Out of the millions of sperm cells, you were the chosen one - unfortunately for you brother. :-\ Remember that you are not alone, there is a certain segment of the population in your state. There are individuals who fail to respond to 2 grams of tren a week. And you think you are somehow segregated and special?
And you think i profit off these so called "claims". ???
Since "agenda" is the protagonist of the day. Let's get on with it.
Those like you who question(ed) my sincerity about creatine monohydrate working very well for over 10 years, before i ever touched hormones -- and thinking I have an agenda? ??? Yes, i do. :o So that you can all go buy it from GNC for $30 for 1kg, and i can greatly profit from it. :-X
No Dante and Sons, EAS, Gaspari or anyone for that matter put a gun too my head to buy and use it. I bought it and used it by virtue of my own freewill, as you all do buying GH and hormones from the various dealers here and elsewhere. I will continue to do so in the future.
And my cerebral capacity limited friend - i wasn't comparing creatine with steroids. I simply gave you my honest experience, and what i thought. If you don't like it go fu*ck yourself.
I am not the one who you should all be worried about profiting, look at your drug dealers soliciting and selling you fake and underdosed HGH and hormones. Remember Jamie, Kami and party bent you over and fuc*ked you in the a$s not the creatine industry. If something doesn't work, i can go get my $30, $40, or whatever back from the seller. Can you do the same once you get fuc*ked over? ::)
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tren > creatine
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well i think in kai's case the drug abuse is the defining factor.
but strength does generally promote more myofibrillar hypertrophy, i personally believe that it's no coincidence that successful bb'ers like ronnie and dorian were focused much more on strength and almost powerlifting-style routines than doing set after set of moderate weights like kai or cutler. even arnold had fairly impressive squat and dl numbers.
imo "strength" muscle just feels more solid and more permanent. that's just my opinion tho
i don't think you're right on this one necessarily. jay said that the most influential thing anyone ever told him was lee haney's famous motto, "stimulate, don't annihilate". remember they were as successful as ronnie and dorian. no, jay didn't win as many o's as dorian, but dorian wasn't runner up for like five years either.
plus ronnie and dorian definitely had way more injuries than jay and haney.
also, it's not about the style of training i feel. just the drugs that give a certain look. i mean, after all, lets be real.
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tren > creatine
Yes this. Shit what's a tub of creatine cost, $50? That's a vial right there LOL! I will say I don't advocate gear until you have 4-5yrs of experience and in that case, creatine is a great supplement
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My experience with creatine over the years has for the most part been negative when it really didnt do much for me. It only worked the best the first time I used it, and I noticed a huge difference in strength gain. Cant remember how much mass it added though, but hey - with strength comes mass, so I guess it helped there as well. But later on it didnt do much for me at all, no matter how many different and popular creatine products I tried. And so in the end I just stopped wasting money on them and quit using them since it didnt really matter if I was on them or not.
Today is a different story though, Ive begun to use creatine again, more specifically Creatine Monohydrate since this is has been proven scientifically to be the best product. And I have to agree, because I actually do see/feel a difference in strength/mass gain when using it. And the best part is that its cheap too! As far as the water retention goes, I cant say to see that much of a difference on them or not, and I certaintly dont have any problem staying lean while on creatine. Its all in the diet folks, and with added cardio as well - it should do the trick regardless if your on creatine or not.
So my conclusion is, creatine is one of those rare products that actually works, and I think its a nice investment if your a bodybuilder.
True approved.
I can attest to that.
It definitely works wonders in the beginning. Then the gains taper off as the body gets saturated. The hyper response was gone after 3-4 cycles completed for 12-16 weeks each time.
Later on after about 2 years of consistent use, it was more of a maintenance approach with it.
Then again i took creatine after about a 7-8 year lay off, and got the same type of response when i first started. Strength and mass gains were quite astounding.
Now it's a mix of hormones and creatine. You can only go to a certain level with creatine usage. My weight and strength never budged after i got to 224lb from the 160s, and 222lb the second time around. Tried mixing them together, it threw all the blood work numbers off. Most importantly, it was very difficult to workout with creatine due to it causing a serious electrolyte imbalance resulting in debilitating spasms and cramps.
Overall, there is a definitely a place for creatine in every weightlifter/BBs arsenal.
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that stuff just bloat you and adds 10 pounds of water. it's the exact opposite of what a bodybuilder would want
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Yes this. Shit what's a tub of creatine cost, $50? That's a vial right there LOL! I will say I don't advocate gear until you have 4-5yrs of experience and in that case, creatine is a great supplement
Man I remember the first time I bought creatine. I was like 18, I wanted to get huge, but not to big u know.. So I got my ass in to GNC and got my creatine. Needed to go to walmart too, to get my grape juice because that digested the shit outta my creatine. Oh man, I was pumped.
Taking supps doesn't do shit for you physique wise, but if anything for beginners, it helps get them into a decent regime. Your all jazzed up because you got your product and you think it will add size and while in this mind frame, you will be paying close attention to your diet and training, you will be doing all the little things better. Total placebo effect, but it works.
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Hell ya Brocty, you couldnt take your creatine without grape juice HAHA! So much wasted money on supplements, holy fuck. I used to drop like $400 a month on that shit, maybe more. Needed my l-glutamine PWO for recovery wtf! I am happy I stayed natty as long as I did but I was spending more $ then I could have on gear. Need my ZMA before bed, increases test levels. I could go on and on
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Jaime i'll repeat this again since English is your second language. You know it's never to late too get a GED. If my writing style is too difficult for you to comprehend, i definitely recommend the latter.
As to your genetics blame your parents not yourself for the shitty response. You are a byproduct of a defective gene. Out of the millions of sperm cells, you were the chosen one - unfortunately for you brother. :-\ Remember that you are not alone, there is a certain segment of the population in your state. There are individuals who fail to respond to 2 grams of tren a week. And you think you are somehow segregated and special?
And you think i profit off these so called "claims". ???
Since "agenda" is the protagonist of the day. Let's get on with it.
Those like you who question(ed) my sincerity about creatine monohydrate working very well for over 10 years, before i ever touched hormones -- and thinking I have an agenda? ??? Yes, i do. :o So that you can all go buy it from GNC for $30 for 1kg, and i can greatly profit from it. :-X
No Dante and Sons, EAS, Gaspari or anyone for that matter put a gun too my head to buy and use it. I bought it and used it by virtue of my own freewill, as you all do buying GH and hormones from the various dealers here and elsewhere. I will continue to do so in the future.
And my cerebral capacity limited friend - i wasn't comparing creatine with steroids. I simply gave you my honest experience, and what i thought. If you don't like it go fu*ck yourself.
I am not the one who you should all be worried about profiting, look at your drug dealers soliciting and selling you fake and underdosed HGH and hormones. Remember Jamie, Kami and party bent you over and fuc*ked you in the a$s not the creatine industry. If something doesn't work, i can go get my $30, $40, or whatever back from the seller. Can you do the same once you get fuc*ked over? ::)
Meltdown.
Hormones>>>>>>>>>>creatine, simple and straightforward.
I don't take hgh, just low dose gear. I'm sorry that me being factual about the merits of creatine upset you so much.
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I have a question :-X
Last time I used creatine my face changed alot because of the water ( a lot less lean )
Im planning to use it again...if I go off creatine after 2 - 3 months will I loose all water again? And is it possible that I get wrinkles forever? ??? ???
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Meltdown.
Hormones>>>>>>>>>>creatine, simple and straightforward.
I don't take hgh, just low dose gear. I'm sorry that me being factual about the merits of creatine upset you so much.
lol
what's a creatine thread doing on here anyway? i mean, is this bodybuilding.com? ::)
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Is this even English? Just busting balls. I guess English is a second language for you.
1100 posts and you're asking this? ::)
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yeah, well not really. for example i have no biceps and i have no problem curling 30 lb dumbells. kai greene also curls 30 lb dumbells, but our biceps—there's no comparison.
Your argument sucks dick. Kai is a drug lab, anyone on drugs can lift light weights and still get huge. Nothing matters while your on drugs... ::)
Gaining strength is very important if you want to get bigger none the less.
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I can attest to that.
It definitely works wonders in the beginning. Then the gains taper off as the body gets saturated. The hyper response was gone after 3-4 cycles completed for 12-16 weeks each time.
Later on after about 2 years of consistent use, it was more of a maintenance approach with it.
Then again i took creatine after about a 7-8 year lay off, and got the same type of response when i first started. Strength and mass gains were quite astounding.
Now it's a mix of hormones and creatine. You can only go to a certain level with creatine usage. My weight and strength never budged after i got to 224lb from the 160s, and 222lb the second time around. Tried mixing them together, it threw all the blood work numbers off. Most importantly, it was very difficult to workout with creatine due to it causing a serious electrolyte imbalance resulting in debilitating spasms and cramps.
Overall, there is a definitely a place for creatine in every weightlifter/BBs arsenal.
Yep, pretty much the same thing with NO Xplode. First time I tried it, I was shocked by the affect I got from it. It was unreal, but then the second time and the times after - it was just meh, and nothing else... The body becomes tolerant to the supplements so you either have to up the dosage, or try something stronger. I still think its a good supplement I use now and then, but mostly for motivation.
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Meltdown.
Hormones>>>>>>>>>>creatine, simple and straightforward.
I don't take hgh, just low dose gear. I'm sorry that me being factual about the merits of creatine upset you so much.
Wow ... that is enlightening Jamie. Tx Einstein for pointing that out. :o
Creatine deserves its own merit as does GH and Anabolic steroids in the drug world.
Next time instead of ranting and whining like a little bitch. Take other peoples experience for what it's worth. We are all here to share and learn. Don't let your biases supersede your good judgement
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Wow ... that is enlightening Jamie. Tx Einstein for pointing that out. :o
Creatine deserves its own merit as does GH and Anabolic steroids in the drug world.
Next time instead of ranting and whining like a little bitch. Take other peoples experience for what it's worth. We are all here to share and learn. Don't let your biases supersede your good judgement
Look Randy good fellow.
I wrote a two sentence summary of the relative merits of creatine, where as you had a 5000 word meltdown over it. For it's price and potency in comparison to alternatives it's pretty much useless.
If you wish to believe otherwise then go ahead.
You are being a real bitch over this.
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Your argument sucks dick. Kai is a drug lab, anyone on drugs can lift light weights and still get huge. Nothing matters while your on drugs... ::)
lol that's my entire point. it's all drugs bro.
Gaining strength is very important if you want to get bigger none the less.
notice this contradicts your previous sentence...
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Look Randy good fellow.
I wrote a two sentence summary of the relative merits of creatine, where as you had a 5000 word meltdown over it. For it's price and potency in comparison to alternatives it's pretty much useless.
If you wish to believe otherwise then go ahead.
You are being a real bitch over this.
Sometimes it takes 5000 words - even 10000 words to explain things to dumb witted fellows like you. You are a special case, and deserve special attention.
And what alternative? We are simply comparing the efficacy of creatine among users, not against your low dosed gear.
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Sometimes it takes 5000 words - even 10000 words to explain things to dumb witted fellows like you. You are a special case, and deserve special attention.
And what alternative? We are simply comparing the efficacy of creatine among users, not against your low dosed gear.
it's not gonna make you get big. and that's what this place is about. end of thread.
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lol that's my entire point. it's all drugs bro.
notice this contradicts your previous sentence...
Yes it may seem that way, but what I ment was, for naturals especially, gaining strength is a must for making decent progress in the gym. Juicers dont need to rely on strength as much as naturals, but of course it would make logical sense that they benefit from it as well. They can just get more away with it by lifting lighter compared to a natural.
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Look Randy good fellow.
I wrote a two sentence summary of the relative merits of creatine, where as you had a 5000 word meltdown over it. For it's price and potency in comparison to alternatives it's pretty much useless.
If you wish to believe otherwise then go ahead.
You are being a real bitch over this.
Set these bitches straight Jaime. All he's saying is in the grand scheme and for the money, it's a waist. And he's right. I wish someone set me straight when I thought my creatine/glutamine/ZMA stack was gonna get me jacked! Although to be fair my genetics are so awesome I really could gain from that stuff. ;D So unless your genetic elite, don't bother with creatine
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Set these bitches straight Jaime. All he's saying is in the grand scheme and for the money, it's a waist. And he's right. I wish someone set me straight when I thought my creatine/glutamine/ZMA stack was gonna get me jacked! Although to be fair my genetics are so awesome I really could gain from that stuff. ;D So unless your genetic elite, don't bother with creatine
it works fine for what it is, and it's cheap as shit like 10 bukcs a mo avg, and you can take it without fucking up your HPTA, closing your growth plates and other nasty ass sides. not every 15 year old wanting to get abs for dem bishes needs to be hopped up on juice. if i started gear at the same time as i started working out i'd be like 5'6 instead of 6'3"
i don't get why people here don't understand the merits of learning your body, learning about nutrition and working out and building a solid strength foundation rather than just drugging their brains out till they develop palumbo gut. not everyone that exercises is a 20-something shmoe with no prospects other than being the local freakshow.
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Creapure Creatine Monohydrate
Tribulus (Tribex or Tribestan)
HMB
Add a good whey protein powder and work out hard. You'll get 80% of steroid results and you won't be walking around with thin, wispy, combed over balding hair; shrunken nuts and backne. ;)
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what's your opinion of tribulus terrestris?
Steroid or not?
works or not?
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what's your opinion of tribulus terrestris?
Steroid or not?
works or not?
Not a steroid. It's a test booster. You have to get the Bulgarian.
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Not a steroid. It's a test booster. You have to get the Bulgarian.
i've heard tribulus is useless, could you expound on this "bulgarian" a bit?
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Yes it may seem that way, but what I ment was, for naturals especially, gaining strength is a must for making decent progress in the gym. Juicers dont need to rely on strength as much as naturals, but of course it would make logical sense that they benefit from it as well. They can just get more away with it by lifting lighter compared to a natural.
ok ok it may improve strength some initially FOR NATURAL. but so what? you will be able to bench this or that? your guy friends who you work out with might be impressed a little. that doesn't mean the muscle is there. that doesn't mean you look a bodybuilder. that doesn't mean women will notice you. doesn't mean shit. useless.
and doesn't matter how a juicer lifts. as long as he stimulates the muscle.
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tribulis is fucking useless, i can say creatine works , your training goes more smooth but thats about it.
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ok ok it may improve strength some initially FOR NATURAL. but so what? you will be able to bench this or that? your guy friends who you work out with might be impressed a little. that doesn't mean the muscle is there. that doesn't mean you look a bodybuilder. that doesn't mean women will notice you. doesn't mean shit. useless.
and doesn't matter how a juicer lifts. as long as he stimulates the muscle.
Its not uselsess, as a natural you get your hands on whatever supplement that works and make the best out of it. You dont NEED proteinpowder either, but you use it to maximize/optimize your gains - simple as that!
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Its not uselsess, as a natural you get your hands on whatever supplement that works and make the best out of it. You dont NEED proteinpowder either, but you use it to maximize/optimize your gains - simple as that!
my personal theory regarding juicers and why they lose so much mass when going off, is because the mass isn't really mass.
we all know about sarcoplasmic vs myfibrillar hypertrophy, i feel like if you juice your brains out and just lift for moderate reps, well sure you're getting a lot of sarcoplasmic tissue but it's not permanent, you're not making the CNS and nerve adaptations so when you go off it just disappears....they body doesn't like massive growth in short periods of time it prefers homeostasis and SLOW adaptations.
although with new peptides being release like HIFs and VEGFs, and NGFs we could trick the body into making more solid muscle, basically like strength training in a vial, though you would still have the issue of the bones and tendons not strengthening. i know when they use electroshock stimulation on lab rats to grow muscle there is still the issue of tendons not strengthening. same with gear, that's why there's so many injuries, muscle and strength blows up but tendons stay the same. of course you can mitigate that with deca though.
sorry if im rambling the idea of "controlled evolution" so to speak is one of great interest to me. ;D
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my personal theory regarding juicers and why they lose so much mass when going off, is because the mass isn't really mass.
oh my god you're a fucking retard.
(http://www.craigboyce.com/w/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Baby_Facepalm1.jpg)
(http://cdn.head-fi.org/d/d0/d0cdc180_EpicFacePalm.jpg)
(http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv29/tim_dallinger/Jokes/polar_face_palm.jpg)
the muscle is lost bc the hormone levels no longer match the level of muscularity.
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oh my god you're a fucking retard.
the muscle is lost bc the hormone levels no longer match the level of muscularity.
ok i might not have phrased it the best way.
but there's MUCH more to it than just hormone levels. nerve growth, CNS adaptation, activity levels of that muscle, vein growth, etc. of course if the driving force behind your muscle growth is massive amounts of hormones, then you will lose it once those hormones disappear.
try reading some anatomy journals it's good for you. ;)
i know lots of guys that kept a lot of their mass while being off aas for a month or two, obviously we're not talking ifbb size but still pretty big.
yeah yeah i know, liar filts trenbolona insulina ghona etc etc
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my personal theory regarding juicers and why they lose so much mass when going off, is because the mass isn't really mass.
we all know about sarcoplasmic vs myfibrillar hypertrophy, i feel like if you juice your brains out and just lift for moderate reps, well sure you're getting a lot of sarcoplasmic tissue but it's not permanent, you're not making the CNS and nerve adaptations so when you go off it just disappears....they body doesn't like massive growth in short periods of time it prefers homeostasis and SLOW adaptations.
although with new peptides being release like HIFs and VEGFs, and NGFs we could trick the body into making more solid muscle, basically like strength training in a vial, though you would still have the issue of the bones and tendons not strengthening. i know when they use electroshock stimulation on lab rats to grow muscle there is still the issue of tendons not strengthening. same with gear, that's why there's so many injuries, muscle and strength blows up but tendons stay the same. of course you can mitigate that with deca though.
sorry if im rambling the idea of "controlled evolution" so to speak is one of great interest to me. ;D
aside from your theory in the first line, i have to admit i'm impressed by your ambition to do your homework. not typical generation nothingness haphazardly hopping on whatever hormones you can get your hands on. good for you.
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aside from your theory in the first line, i have to admit i'm impressed by your ambition to do your homework. not typical generation nothingness haphazardly hopping on whatever hormones you can get your hands on. good for you.
yes! that is all i was trying to say basically, get your money's worth out of your body and your gear
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I've just finished a two week experiment and taken creatine monohydrate from prolab.
I believe I got a pump easier from my workouts and that they stayed a bit longer. (maybe that was just in my head?) But as far as muscle and weight gain I saw nothing and I actually even dropped a pound.
Not worth taking just for better pumps.
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I've just finished a two week experiment and taken creatine monohydrate from prolab.
I believe I got a pump easier from my workouts and that they stayed a bit longer. (maybe that was just in my head?) But as far as muscle and weight gain I saw nothing and I actually even dropped a pound.
Not worth taking just for better pumps.
Are you in good shape (no homo)? Did you notice any water retention?
I'm thinking of dropping the creatine if it means less water retention.
Anyone had any success using potassium to tighten up?
Edit. I guess you didn't gain much fluid if you dropped a pound of bodyweight...
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certainly not in bad shape, I noticed no visible difference atall, no bloat, nothing! Funny thing is I actually felt bigger, more pumped and heavier, it must have been purely psychological.
Are you in good shape (no homo)? Did you notice any water retention?
I'm thinking of dropping the creatine if it means less water retention.
Anyone had any success using potassium to tighten up?
Edit. I guess you didn't gain much fluid if you dropped a pound of bodyweight...
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Why all the comments about "for the money" in terms of creatine? It costs very little.
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certainly not in bad shape, I noticed no visible difference atall, no bloat, nothing! Funny thing is I actually felt bigger, more pumped and heavier, it must have been purely psychological.
ok, you said that you ended up losing one pound on the scale, but did your body comp change?
maybe you gained muscle while losing fat at the same time
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possible, I did actually think the other day my pecs feel denser and harder but that could have been because I changed up my pec routine slightly and not to do with the creatine....
ok, you said that you ended up losing one pound on the scale, but did your body comp change?
maybe you gained muscle while losing fat at the same time
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certainly not in bad shape, I noticed no visible difference atall, no bloat, nothing! Funny thing is I actually felt bigger, more pumped and heavier, it must have been purely psychological.
I see, thanks for your input! Guess I'll continue taking the stuff... at least until the tub is empty. 8)
Just to make this post a bit more interesting...
"In conclusion, the present study demonstrates for the first time that creatine supplementation in combination with strength training amplifies the training-induced increase in satellite cell number and myonuclei concentration in human skeletal muscle fibres, thereby allowing an enhanced muscle fibre growth in response to strength training." - http://jp.physoc.org/content/573/2/525.abstract
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no problem, I've still got a tub and a half left, not sure whether to continue with it tbh.
I see, thanks for your input! Guess I'll continue taking the stuff... at least until the tub is empty. 8)
Just to make this post a bit more interesting...
"In conclusion, the present study demonstrates for the first time that creatine supplementation in combination with strength training amplifies the training-induced increase in satellite cell number and myonuclei concentration in human skeletal muscle fibres, thereby allowing an enhanced muscle fibre growth in response to strength training." - http://jp.physoc.org/content/573/2/525.abstract
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I see, thanks for your input! Guess I'll continue taking the stuff... at least until the tub is empty. 8)
Just to make this post a bit more interesting...
"In conclusion, the present study demonstrates for the first time that creatine supplementation in combination with strength training amplifies the training-induced increase in satellite cell number and myonuclei concentration in human skeletal muscle fibres, thereby allowing an enhanced muscle fibre growth in response to strength training." - http://jp.physoc.org/content/573/2/525.abstract
Hi Ron.
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I think it works. That said, I cant really tell a difference when I take it until I stop taking it. The effects are very gradual.
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just eat and lift... pretty simple
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Well, it is probably one of the only supplements to have been proven scientifically to work. Yes, its effects have been studied in major universities (harvard, yale, cornell).
With that said, its not going to make you look like ronnie coleman either. IF you are going to buy a supplement, Id say youre safest bet is creatine in terms of a supplement actually working (though the amount of benefit will depend on the person).
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Hi Ron.
Well, hello there young man. Would you happen to be interested in trying some creatine? It'll make you a real stud. :P