Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: willie mosconi on April 26, 2012, 07:56:11 PM
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For whatever reason, I've always felt like squats are not the best leg exercise for me. Long ago I gave up on them- I think I don't do them with proper form and have always felt that leg presses, hacks, reverse hacks, and various squat machines give me a better leg workout. However, I still envy those guys that can step under the squat rack and handle some heavy poundages. It motivated me to start doing squats again last year, but I started to injure my lower back (old injury from about 10 years ago re-surfaced).
So, do you guys think you can get a great leg workout with squats or is in the lack of squats in a leg workout insurmountable as a flaw? Opinions?
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I haven't squatted this year, and dont plan on since I don't want a hip replacement.
squats are a great exercise, probably the best for total leg size but if you cant squat properly then why bother with something that hurts you.
i use the horizontal leg press and variations of hip belt squats and my legs are a little smaller than when I was a 700lb squatter, but I'm not a broken mess of injuries all the time now either.
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have you tried front squats? For sure doing heavy leg presses, hack squats and leg extensions you could gain some good size.
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fuck squats. don't do shit for me. then again... nothing does. :'(
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I always start my leg workout with about 4-5 'warm up sets' of squats, going from 30 reps with the bar to 10 reps with about 20kg less than my max.
I then do 3 sets of 6 reps of my absolute heaviest (without compromising form) - as soon as I feel like i'm doing a half rep on my last rep - i'll lower the weight.
BUT - i feel like my upper leg size come from the rest of my workout:
4 sets heavy as I can possible go for 12 reps on the lying leg press (plate loaded one)
3 sets of quad raises
3 sets of dumbell lunges (light but focusing on maxiumum squeeze on the quad)
THB I feel I get stronger, denser, and a bit bigger from the heavy squatting - but I would have nowhere near the sweep and thickness without the leg pressing and raises.
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I used to do them religiously and they were the best for size but I haven't done them in a year. I don't juice, I'm over 40 - I'm not going to get any bigger and I'm only going to get injured more easily so I switched to one legged leg presses instead. My legs have lost a little size but I don't really care - the presses are working out ok for me.
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What are reverse hacks? Are you talking about going face down in a hack squat machine? TBH, that seems like you would be just doing a front squat....
I loved squatting...i felt like I grew more in the days when I could get away with 3 - 4 sets of squats, the leg press, then 3 - 4 sets of leg curls. Then go home.
Now, the knees take so long to warm up so I end up doing something like this...
Leg Ext - 20, 15, 15, 12
Hack - 4 x 15 - 20
THEN squat 3 x 12
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Squats have been called the best exercise you could do in the weight room. Maybe it's true but are there negatives?
It seems quite a few hip replacements have happened for a lot of guys who squatted many years. I know Grimek, Ferrigno, Bass, and Paul Anderson had hip problems. If you know anymore add them to the list. Is squatting a natural thing to put your hip joint through? I can't answer that.
One thing for sure as Yates has shown you can build big legs without squats. I know for myself I went through a long period of hip pain. I have been using squats since I was a teenager. What gave me relief was doing leg presses prior to squats. I would use less weight due to being fatigued from the leg presses but the joint didn't hurt.
One thing for sure. Most avoid squats because they don't have a work ethic and squats are to much work. I would say for any exercise though, if it hurts a joint, don't use it.
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There's so many variations you can do instead of the regular old back squat, without relying on machines:
Front squat, Bulgarian split squat, anterior load split squat, Box squat (personal favorite right now), goblet squat.....
Most peoples issues are flexibility and using too much weight. Unless there's injury, I would always try to do one of these.
Not talking body building - just for overall strength/exercise.....
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Unfortunately 25 years of heavy squats have injured my C5/C6 vertabre area. It hurt for years, but I was stubborn and continued to squat heavy. It caused nerve impingement resulting in severe neck and shoulder pain.
A few years ago I started using a Manta Ray to displace the weight of the bar. It's awkward, but it allows me to squat without severe pain. I cannot go any higher than 275lbs, but at least I can still squat. I never had any problems with my lower back or hips. You're only as strong as your weakest link.
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So you think you can squat
http://train.elitefts.com/instructional/so-you-think-you-can-squat-parts-1-5/ (http://train.elitefts.com/instructional/so-you-think-you-can-squat-parts-1-5/)
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What are reverse hacks? Are you talking about going face down in a hack squat machine? TBH, that seems like you would be just doing a front squat....
I loved squatting...i felt like I grew more in the days when I could get away with 3 - 4 sets of squats, the leg press, then 3 - 4 sets of leg curls. Then go home.
Now, the knees take so long to warm up so I end up doing something like this...
Leg Ext - 20, 15, 15, 12
Hack - 4 x 15 - 20
THEN squat 3 x 12
Yes, reverse hacks means facing the machine- so basically a front squat. I've really liked those since I incorporated them into my leg workouts a few months ago
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JNN squats to pee.
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Unfortunately 25 years of heavy squats have injured my C5/C6 vertabre area. It hurt for years, but I was stubborn and continued to squat heavy. It caused nerve impingement resulting in severe neck and shoulder pain.
A few years ago I started using a Manta Ray to displace the weight of the bar. It's awkward, but it allows me to squat without severe pain. I cannot go any higher than 275lbs, but at least I can still squat. I never had any problems with my lower back or hips. You're only as strong as your weakest link.
why put yourself through that? fuck man! for what? do girls give a shit? did they ever?
(http://i48.tinypic.com/35iq2dy.png)
^he didn't squat for at least an entire year before showing up like that. just sayin'.
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I stopped doing squats a month ago ( or at least going heavy) because my olwer back is not feeling to well( but it is getting better)
Im sure the exercises such as lunges, leg press(and other style of this movement), hammie curl and SLDL will work just as well
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Problem with me is that lately I have yet to find a leg press that doesn't wreck havoc on my knees. The 'engineers' of the leg presses now a days seem to want to make the foot plate more and more angled away (i.e. heels higher than toes). What the fuck happened to the older style ones??? Everyone only has the retarded Cybex leg press or the Icarian ones. Are those companies the 'generic' leg press companies used to keep costs down on equipment?
Everyone seems to be able to stack this one (and I mean everyone...shows how piss poor the design is)
(http://forzastrength.com/products/181.big.jpg)
What the fuck is with the bend in the foot plate???
(http://img.diytrade.com/cdimg/1308469/23199852/0/1315138530/Precor_Fitness_Equipment_45_Degree_Leg_Press_D37.jpg)
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I think alot of guys I see in the gym - almost all of them, have under developed legs and some squat 3-4 plates! I actually watch them and wonder, how do they move that weghit and look so ordinary.
I have relatively big legs, and I squat alot- but I dont try to break any personal records. I get some good reps and have good form, and work up to 315 and even if I know I can throw on another plate I usually say to myself why not another set with the same weight and trash them good
there is many ways to move a weight from point a to b, but to do it to stimulate growth I think it has to be strict and direct-
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So you think you can squat
http://train.elitefts.com/instructional/so-you-think-you-can-squat-parts-1-5/ (http://train.elitefts.com/instructional/so-you-think-you-can-squat-parts-1-5/)
Good stuff !!
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When at my biggest i only did leg extension and leg curl 5 set with as many reps i could on each then finished.. couldnt walk for days after...
And my legs where 74 cm with veins and pretty lean my calves was 49 cm and i only did 2 set of standing calf raise a week...
Squat is for powerlifters...
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why put yourself through that? fuck man! for what? do girls give a shit? did they ever?
(http://i48.tinypic.com/35iq2dy.png)
^he didn't squat for at least an entire year before showing up like that. just sayin'.
If you lift just for girls and completely neglect all the benefits of squats then I'm fucking speechless.
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i like squatting ,different variations like free to a machine squat or feet positions,heavy relative and low rep 6 or high rep days as well,i feel its a good start to workout and all other exercises around them benefit .leg presses,extensions ,lunges thats what gets the grooves and definition after the mass is attained with squatting.but then again great or good legs can be developed with many other movements as long as there pushed hard.
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If you lift just for girls and completely neglect all the benefits of squats then I'm fucking speechless.
what benefits??? back problems, knee pain, spinal compression, etc, etc...?
fuck that.
and don't start with the "it raises test" bullshit
as if that's anything but negligible
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When at my biggest i only did leg extension and leg curl 5 set with as many reps i could on each then finished.. couldnt walk for days after...
And my legs where 74 cm with veins and pretty lean my calves was 49 cm and i only did 2 set of standing calf raise a week...
Squat is for powerlifters...
pics or shut the fuckin' fuck up.
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For whatever reason, I've always felt like squats are not the best leg exercise for me. Long ago I gave up on them- I think I don't do them with proper form and have always felt that leg presses, hacks, reverse hacks, and various squat machines give me a better leg workout. However, I still envy those guys that can step under the squat rack and handle some heavy poundages. It motivated me to start doing squats again last year, but I started to injure my lower back (old injury from about 10 years ago re-surfaced).
So, do you guys think you can get a great leg workout with squats or is in the lack of squats in a leg workout insurmountable as a flaw? Opinions?
for me, the risk/benifit ratio of squats isnt worth it, and to be honest, i dont want 40 inch thighs. Sure squats are great, but you can work your way around it... i do them maybe like once every 9-10 leg day, just to spice it up. Same goes for deadlifts.. if you cant build your back with rows ( t-bar, one arm dumbell) and other excercise, then your doing something wrong.. again, sure deadlifts are great, but you can build a back without it
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for me, the risk/benifit ratio of squats isnt worth it, and to be honest, i dont want 40 inch thighs. Sure squats are great, but you can work your way around it... i do them maybe like once every 9-10 leg day, just to spice it up. Same goes for deadlifts.. if you cant build your back with rows ( t-bar, one arm dumbell) and other excercise, then your doing something wrong.. again, sure deadlifts are great, but you can build a back without it
Some true and false here. Benefits to risks you say? What risks, there aren't any if you do them right. And since you don't want 40 inch quads, no need to be going super heavy, so what's the problem?
And yes, if you do rows and all the variations of them you can build a thick ass back. Deads are great, yes, but it can be done without them.
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For whatever reason, I've always felt like squats are not the best leg exercise for me. Long ago I gave up on them- I think I don't do them with proper form and have always felt that leg presses, hacks, reverse hacks, and various squat machines give me a better leg workout. However, I still envy those guys that can step under the squat rack and handle some heavy poundages. It motivated me to start doing squats again last year, but I started to injure my lower back (old injury from about 10 years ago re-surfaced).
So, do you guys think you can get a great leg workout with squats or is in the lack of squats in a leg workout insurmountable as a flaw? Opinions?
i have the same probablem with lower back, the only thing that will work for you is dumbell lunges, kicking , running, and jumping
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Some true and false here. Benefits to risks you say? What risks, there aren't any if you do them right. And since you don't want 40 inch quads, no need to be going super heavy, so what's the problem?
And yes, if you do rows and all the variations of them you can build a thick ass back. Deads are great, yes, but it can be done without them.
for one, lets just say you have 2 plates on each side, and you squatting, and the bar is balanced on your trap(back of neck or whatever).. if for whateverthe bar tips to a side or something, there is some weight on your spine, and your jerking your spine...
yes i know same can be said about flat bench presses with a bar, but if that happens when squatting, you risk your spine... again, for me, its not worth it.. you say i can do lightweight, but why bother? there are safer machines out there where you can go heavy, and still be much safer that squatting. i know in the bodybuilding culty, its the politically correct thing to say that you squat and you cant wait for leg days, but no, i dont squat, and i think unless you are competing, you can get pretty fucking awesome legs without squats...
for example, the hack squat machine IMO hit the same muscles with the same intensity, but because its a machine, you have the weight equally balanced on your SHOULDERS, not your neck/spine...
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what benefits??? back problems, knee pain, spinal compression, etc, etc...?
fuck that.
and don't start with the "it raises test" bullshit
as if that's anything but negligible
Improved stability, stronger core thus less back problems in future, stronger base for upper body movements. Overall athletic abilities.
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Improved stability, stronger core thus less back problems in future, stronger base for upper body movements. Overall athletic abilities.
Improved stability ? huh , please explain
stronger core ? which can also be achieved by :planks,crunches( any of the 50 different variation)
stronger base for upper body movements? yeah, with stronger legs, you get a better base. but stronger legs can come from your normal leg routine, and subsituting for example hack sqquats with regular squats
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Improved stability
translation: thick waist, destroyed v taper
stronger core thus less back problems in future
did you just say, "core"? this is an absolute bull shit word. DO NOT USE IT AGAIN BC IT IS BULL SHIT. again bodybuilders don't want thick waist. and squat ALWAYS give you back problems years later. if you don't believe me go ask the professional opinion of chiropracter. ask his opinion of squat. fucked up back from squat is one of the most common things they see. over and over.
stronger base for upper body movements.
grasping at straws/bull shit
Overall athletic abilities.
wtf no. do jumping jacks sprints and shit if you want "athletic abilities". since when do bodybuilders have athletic abilities anyway?
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Improved stability ? huh , please explain
stronger core ? which can also be achieved by :planks,crunches( any of the 50 different variation)
stronger base for upper body movements? yeah, with stronger legs, you get a better base. but stronger legs can come from your normal leg routine, and subsituting for example hack sqquats with regular squats
Your problem is that you think of body just as muscles and even without going too much into details.
First of all you won't get required CNS adaptations with other leg exercises. Secondly, key thing here is proportion of strength. Think of body as an machine, every muscle has to balance the other in order for machine to work without any problems. There are certain exercises which make you adapt in certain way so you ensure that desired strength proportions remain. Therefore performing for example only plyometric exercises will lead to certain knee problems. It's biomechanics 101, I'm sorry, you have to read more.
Squats won't give you thick waist, it's GH and steroids abuse. Have you seen any olympic lifters?
(http://www.sportowiec.org/pub/images/editor/zdjecialistopad2011/Dimitry_Klokov6.jpg)
(http://www.allthingsgym.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Dmitry-Klokov-Yoked-Swole-Muscle1.jpg)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_hXSVrybOOEU/SUM9IBqTUlI/AAAAAAAAADQ/NfJB2OSBosE/s400/ivan-stoitsov.jpg)
Where the fuck is this thick waist?
Most people have problems because they:
- dont go deep enough (therefore destroyed knees and back)
- use powerlifting style squats instead of olympic style (and then they wonder why their glutes grow instead of quads and why they have back problems)
Overall I believe front squats are better than back squats because they force you to use proper technique and puts most of the stress on quads while having all benefits of traditional back squats.
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i love squats, i seem to be built for them. short legs long torso. i can achieve very deep squats easily where as the tall guys at the gym almost do good mornings cause of their height. never get any lower back problems either. Just a shame i suck so bad at deadlifts, have to pull the weight so far cause of my short arms.
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Good mornings cause of their height? They have terrible flexibility, they should work on that.
By the way I find it really peculiar that same people who rant how much weight doesnt matter complain they can't do squats because they have to put so much weight and so on, and same people who make half sissy squats with 10 plates on each side. Whatever you may feel or any bullshit broscientists tell you, you don't get full leg development from half squats. If you truly are a bodybuilder, put 3 plates on each side and perform full olympic squats for 20 reps. If it's still to easy then do that with slow, controlled negative. Still too easy? Pause at the bottom, just remember to keep your quads flexed at all times otherwise it might be dangerous for your knees. That should be enough for about everyone here including Tom Platz so well, I will end my rant here.
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Have you seen arnold doing squats in pumping iron? its like he bends forward almost cause of his height. thats what i mean.
although most people probably are not flexible enough to do it. but im pretty damn unflexible and i can do some real deep squats. stance is normally the issue i think.
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Have you seen arnold doing squats in pumping iron? its like he bends forward almost cause of his height. thats what i mean.
although most people probably are not flexible enough to do it. but im pretty damn unflexible and i can do some real deep squats. stance is normally the issue i think.
the taller you are the further you have to bend over to balance the weight. this is one of the reasons why tallers guys find squats difficult.
i'm only 5'11" but i avoid them like the plague. i did them for ten god damn years and they didn't do shit for me, but pain. and i'm not talking muscle pain. muscle pain (fatigue, burn) i like. joint pain. strain in my gut i don't want. i have no fucking reason to do them.
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When at my biggest i only did leg extension and leg curl 5 set with as many reps i could on each then finished.. couldnt walk for days after...
And my legs where 74 cm with veins and pretty lean my calves was 49 cm and i only did 2 set of standing calf raise a week...
Squat is for powerlifters...
You must have been a monster.