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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: The Ugly on July 22, 2012, 08:21:54 PM
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His statistics are retarded.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/ruthba01.shtml
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Yes Babe was a good player. Lived off hotdogs and whiskey too, probably would have hit 1000 dingers if he was playing today with NeuroCore and upright rows.
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All PED's. The peds now didn't compare to the peds back then. Too bad the HOF can't see that.
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Sold by the Red Sox to the Yankees so the Sox owner could afford to put on a production of the musical "Bye-Bye Birdie".
Now that's retarded....
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Baseball was his hobby,
drinking, smoking, and hoes was what he loved most
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drinking, smoking, and hoes was what he loved most
on his deathbed, you know he didn't regret not hitting more homers.
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Baseball was his hobby,
drinking, smoking, and hoes was what he loved most
And he was a perma-bulker. Ruth was a Getbigger if I've ever seen one. A God among men still.
Here's to you Bambino!
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Sold by the Red Sox to the Yankees so the Sox owner could afford to put on a production of the musical "Bye-Bye Birdie".
Now that's retarded....
Whoa, that was way later. ;D
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I always get that wrong...it was "No No Nanette".... :D
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I like William Bendix as the young Babe. Dude was a hard 50 trying to look 20. Super-suspension of disbelief. 'Hi Fadder.' ;D
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I like William Bendix as the young Babe. Dude was a hard 50 trying to look 20. Super-suspension of disbelief. 'Hi Fadder.' ;D
No problem there really, since Babe Ruth ALWAYS seemed to look 50, even at 20. ;D
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Ruth played in an era where no minorites were allowed. Shit, Josh Gibson hit more homers than Ruth. If Ruth would have faced Satchel Page, Satch would have struck that fat ass out on 3 pitches
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No problem there really, since Babe Ruth ALWAYS seemed to look 50, even at 20. ;D
I can't argue that. ;D
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Why did he have such a sissy nickname ? Was he a homosexual ?
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All PED's. The peds now didn't compare to the peds back then. Too bad the HOF can't see that.
::)
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Ruth played in an era where no minorites were allowed. Shit, Josh Gibson hit more homers than Ruth. If Ruth would have faced Satchel Page, Satch would have struck that fat ass out on 3 pitches
Josh Gibson never faced Dizzy Dean...he would have struck his ass out on three pitches
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Yes Babe was a good player. Lived off hotdogs and whiskey too, probably would have hit 1000 dingers if he was playing today with NeuroCore and upright rows.
Yes if had of trained with big dicked bob his stats would of been better no doubt.
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Josh Gibson never faced Dizzy Dean...he would have struck his ass out on three pitches
lets play guess the race
jk :D
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::)
It's fact.
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Shit, Josh Gibson hit more homers than Ruth.
Yeah on the sandlot playing against 10 year olds.
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Josh Gibson is like the Paul Bunyan of baseball.
In Negro League games with complete records he hit 115 home runs in 510 games over 16 seasons (from his wikipedia page) which is 0.2255 homers per game. So if he played a full 162-game major league schedule assuming the quality of the competition was similar in both leagues (who knows) he'd hit about 37 homers a season. Over 16 years that's 584 homers if he plays every game (highly unlikely). Which is a lot but still about 80 short of Willy Mays and 3-5 solid years away from Ruth/Aaron/Bonds totals.
If you consider that had the leagues been combined and the talent level would almost certainly have been higher (i.e. the worst black pitchers were nowhere near as good as the best white pitchers) he'd probably hit homers at a lesser rate than I estimated there.
He'd probably have hit a lot of homers had he played in the majors but fuck off with this "900 home runs" business.
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Josh Gibson played in an all black league , his numbers dont mean shit
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IIRC...Gibson is allegedly the only guy to hit one completely out of Yankee Stadium....Mantle almost did it once. Don't know about the level of competition, but if true... that's impressive.
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Josh Gibson played in an all black league , his numbers dont mean shit
Ruth would have hit 1000 home runs if he only faced black pitchers just like Michael Jordan would have averaged 60 points a game if he was playing just white dudes. It works both ways.
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IIRC...Gibson is allegedly the only guy to hit one completely out of Yankee Stadium....Mantle almost did it once. Don't know about the level of competition, but if true... that's impressive.
::)
Babe Ruth Owns the shit out that record, He allegedly hit one out of left field in boston that landed on a train going to New York, the ball never stopped traveling, Longest HR in history, from Boston to New York
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Ruth played in an era where no minorites were allowed. Shit, Josh Gibson hit more homers than Ruth. If Ruth would have faced Satchel Page, Satch would have struck that fat ass out on 3 pitches
quick name me 3 great african american pitchers, not latinos? not that easy right, that arguement is invalid there weren't that many teams talent was greater. babe was head and shoulders above anyobe at the time. most of the great black players were position players, ernie banks, frank robinson, hank aaron and my favorite player willie mays just to name the upper echelon players. ::)
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quick name me 3 great african american pitchers, not latinos? not that easy right, that arguement is invalid there weren't that many teams talent was greater. babe was head and shoulders above anyobe at the time. most of the great black players were position players, ernie banks, frank robinson, hank aaron and my favorite player willie mays just to name the upper echelon players. ::)
that and ruth was a great pitcher before he became a regular ofer also cost him homers.babe was a giant of a man just as mays was later lost 2 years to military service and still hit 660 hrs. the next two years he came back he hit 41 and 52 homers. the 41 might have been 50 or 60 but giants told mays to go for average instead of hrs so he hit obly 5 hrs after all-star break but raised avg from 279 to 345 thus winning a batting title.
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One of the black guys on here is sure to argue that he was secretly part black.
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It's fact.
I'm curious.
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Yes Willy Mays would have been the home run king for a few years were it not for the damned dirty Koreans.
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this fat guido is a hero in america hahaha
white people arent good at real sports
stick to curling haha
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Yes Willy Mays would have been the home run king for a few years were it not for the damned dirty Koreans.
agree but i still think mantle had more raw talent than mays
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agree but i still think mantle had more raw talent than mays
;D amazingly mays and mantle both played 2005 games at this point of their careers mays went onto 660 hrs and mantle 536 hrs.
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In fact, only Barry Bonds and A-Rod have 300 steals and 600HRs, and neither of the above two guys have/will hit 3000 hits or hold a lifetime .300 BA.
Are you referring to Bonds/ARod in that statement? ARod's pretty much a lock for 3000 hits.
And I just looked, ARod and Mays' slash lines are so close it's scary - the BAs are a point apart, and their OBP, which is much more important the BA, are a point apart. ARod's also slugging a mere 6 pts higher than Mays, giving him a miniscule 7 pt difference in OPS. Crazy how close those stats are.
Both are incredible.
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I really don't get the "Mantle is better than Mays" argument. Even at their respective peaks Mays had numbers that were just as good (slightly better in most cases) and did it with a lot less help than Mantle had on NYY. Willy Mays is probably the best all-around baseball player ever. He would almost certainly have hit more homers than Ruth without his military stint.
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ARod is pretty close to 3000 hits, yes. But, if at his pace, he's got to play healthy next year to get it. He won't get in this year. He's getting up there.
They are very, very close to being essentially the same player at the plate, which is why A-Rod is one of the greatest of all-time.
But Mays was a more dominant fielder.
He's signed to play 5 more seasons, and needs only 163 hits. He only needs to be moderately healthy. In other words, barring a career ending injury, it's a lock.
As for fielding, ARod was a fantastic shortstop, but we're comparing apples to oranges since Mays played the OF. I never saw Mays play outside of the awesome highlights, so I'm curious as to how you're defining that Mays was more dominant. I'm Sabremetrically inclined, but don't put too much faith in defensive metrics, let alone those that are retroactively calculated.
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I really don't get the "Mantle is better than Mays" argument. Even at their respective peaks Mays had numbers that were just as good (slightly better in most cases) and did it with a lot less help than Mantle had on NYY. Willy Mays is probably the best all-around baseball player ever. He would almost certainly have hit more homers than Ruth without his military stint.
Ruth will always have the fact that he won 80 something games by the time he was 23 stat on his side. If you take that into account Ruth is clearly better than Mays or anyone else.
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Ruth will always have the fact that he won 80 something games by the time he was 23 stat on his side. If you take that into account Ruth is clearly better than Mays or anyone else.
Ruth's numbers are so ridiculous they look made up. He led the league in HR and OPS in 1918, as a pitcher.
Mays was spectacular as well.
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quick name me 3 great african american pitchers, not latinos? not that easy right, that arguement is invalid there weren't that many teams talent was greater. babe was head and shoulders above anyobe at the time. most of the great black players were position players, ernie banks, frank robinson, hank aaron and my favorite player willie mays just to name the upper echelon players. ::)
Gooden, Sabathia, Paige.... I'd put Gibson up there too.
But still, they are an extreme minority.
Think about this... Doc was the last black Cy Young winner and that was in 1985!
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Gooden, Sabathia, Paige.... I'd put Gibson up there too.
But still, they are an extreme minority.
Think about this... Doc was the last black Cy Young winner and that was in 1985!
If we wanted to rule baseball, we'd rule baseball.
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Gooden, Sabathia, Paige.... I'd put Gibson up there too.
But still, they are an extreme minority.
Think about this... Doc was the last black Cy Young winner and that was in 1985!
Sabathia won a Cy Young recently. Not sure if he's considered "African American" though. He was born in California.
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Sabathia won a Cy Young recently. Not sure if he's considered "African American" though. He was born in California.
CC is Afro-American, yes.
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Sabathia won a Cy Young recently. Not sure if he's considered "African American" though. He was born in California.
Yeah, he's in the middle, I agree... Still he's the closest thing I've seen lately.
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CC is Afro-American, yes.
Surely he has Latino or Hispanic roots though with a name like Sabathia.
I've never heard anyone say Pedro Martinez is AA, for example.
vv Haha fair enough
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Surely he has Latino or Hispanic roots though with a name like Sabathia.
I thought so to. Haven;t found any proof. Till then, he's a regular n-word...haha.
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Fergie Jenkins comes to mind. No idea how his numbers stack up, tho. Oh, and Doc Ellis. - ;D
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8) a couple of other great ball players at least hitting wise ted williams lost almost 6 years to the service and jimmie foxx burned out quick thanks to the bottle.
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bob gibson but these guys are the exception rather than the rule.
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How many hot dogs did he in one day I cant remember.
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How many hot dogs did he in one day I cant remember.
I heard it was 112 in under five minutes :o
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Ruth's numbers are so ridiculous they look made up. He led the league in HR and OPS in 1918, as a pitcher.
Mays was spectacular as well.
Does Ruth have the best stats all time, in any sport, when you put into consideration his 2nd all time On Base %, only 2 hall of fame pitchers reached 88 wins at a younger age and the fact that he reached 714 home runs FAR quicker than Aaron? Maybe Gretzky has better all time stats who else can you put in that category?
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How many hot dogs did he in one day I cant remember.
I know his pre-game ritual was 3 dogs. I can't imagine sitting downwind of the Babe on a regular basis. ;D
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Does Ruth have the best stats all time, in any sport, ?
Look up the dude named Donald Bradman, I think I posted about him earlier in this thread.
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I know his pre-game ritual was 3 dogs. I can't imagine sitting downwind of the Babe on a regular basis. ;D
Yeah he probably took big massive alcoholic dumps too.
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Yeah he probably took big massive alcoholic dumps too.
Yup, and he had the nail as well. Clean-living All-American boy. And, he didn't care for my hero (Gehrig), so there's that, too. :-\
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;D
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Jimmie Foxx looked pretty much just like the Babe in his face.
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/findagrave/photos/2001/222/foxxjimmiebio.jpg)
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Yep - he's signed to play more. Doesn't mean he will. Look how close Bonds got to 2000 rbis and 3000 hits. I mean, I wouldn't be against him NOT getting to 3000. But his past two seasons have been downhill (understandably so - he's old), so who knows what next year holds. But, I'm with you. He'll probably get it and cement his legacy as his generation's greatest hitter.
The defensive stats are just stuff of legend with Mays, stories...things like that I've read about. But there's also some degree of stat analysis like what's posted below - a sabermetrician's take on defensive prowess of Mays. If you find guys "qualitative or quantitatively" ranking defensive shortstops, you'll find few if any who put A-Rod in the top 10 of all-time.
DP-Rk: Positional Defensive Rank
PRG: PCA Real Games (explained above)
PsPRG: PRGs at most frequently played position
CAR: Career Era Adjusted Defensive Wins (I found an error in the way I was quantifying this when I was preparing this analysis that launched a major clean-up of the PCA database files that took hours today...as well as gave me an excuse to change my offensive playing time measurement from Batting Outs to Plate Appearances...it's all good...changes were minor, but it was a necessary logical tweak)
PRO: Prorated Era Adjusted Defensive Wins (in the case of pitchers, defensive wins were prorated to 600 PRGs (the average starting pitcher gets about 30 of them per season), and this is done if and only if the pitcher has at least 250 PRGs to begin with...lesser PRG totals are too prone to weird prorating errors...we throw up our hands and leave prorated and peak elements blank in short careers. In the case of all other position players, I prorated to 2000 PRGs and rquired a minimum of 250 PRGs at the primary position and overall to receive a prorated rating.
PEAK: I've made a significant change to the way peak wins are calculated. Previously I kept only wins in each season that were above the player's career average scoring rate, but I realized this was really only half of themeasure of variability missed by the prorated wins statistic. Peak wins weren't receiving enough weight, because really all it did was eliminate the down years from the prorated element...it didn't also reward for the up years. So what I decided to do was count the absolute value of all deviations from the player's career average scoring rate...it effectively doubles the magnitude of the peak wins componant, and I believe this is appropriate. Players only received a peak element if they also received a prorated element.
Rating: (CAR+PRO+PEAK)/2 if all three elements had data (IOW...if the player met eligibility requirements)...otherwise it was simply the CAR element.
With that out of the way:
Code:
Center Field
DP-Rk First Last PRG PsPRG CAR PRO PEAK Rating
1 Andruw Jones 1251 1156 57.24 91.51 19.06 83.91
2 Tris Speaker 2740 2721 77.6 56.64 32.96 83.6
3 Max Carey 2440 1616 75.32 61.74 25.94 81.5
4 Paul Blair 1643 1594 58.5 71.21 22.34 76.03
5 Richie Ashburn 2095 1964 59.71 57 24.68 70.7
6 Curt Welch 1151 1102 37.99 66.01 18.28 61.14
7 Curt Flood 1651 1651 48.78 59.09 12.26 60.07
8 Lloyd Waner 1770 1624 47.01 53.12 18.05 59.09
9 Devon White 1814 1655 44.45 49.01 22.71 58.08
10 Willie Mays 2855 2756 57.64 40.38 16.14 57.08
11 Mike Cameron 1099 1070 34.32 62.46 16.02 56.4
12 Amos Otis 1861 1773 42.24 45.39 18.68 53.16
13 George Gore 1323 1185 34.06 51.49 19.77 52.66
14 Taylor Douthit 1037 992 31.15 60.08 13.94 52.58
15 Paul Hines 1518 1253 32.58 42.92 28.8 52.15
16 Dwayne Murphy 1180 1115 33.05 56.02 14.49 51.78
17 Lance Johnson 1315 1259 34.38 52.29 16.67 51.67
18 Cy Seymour 1513 1115 36.81 48.66 17.36 51.41
19 Jim Busby 1167 1162 32.64 55.94 14.11 51.34
20 Brett Butler 2046 1890 44.78 43.77 13.96 51.26
Believe it or not, I may actually know the guy who posted this.
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Look up the dude named Donald Bradman, I think I posted about him earlier in this thread.
Although I don't know a wicket from a stump :-\ , his Wikipedia page makes him out to be quite the beast! 8)
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This is a pic of Foxx from the 20's. Long before gh15 could claim "testosterona". Dude was in shape for an alkie.
There have been claims that testosterone was used by baseball players as early as the early 40's. I think it was Roger Maris that also had the abscess due to a faulty injection of possible steroids combined with amphetamines. Greenies were popular all throughout baseball for along time.
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That was one of the big shockers in Jim Bouton's book Ball Four (1970)....baseball players drank, cheated on their wives and took amphetamines
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I heard it was 112 in under five minutes :o
LOL a damn record no doubt
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There have been claims that testosterone was used by baseball players as early as the early 40's. I think it was Roger Maris that also had the abscess due to a faulty injection of possible steroids combined with amphetamines. Greenies were popular all throughout baseball for along time.
that was mantle in 1961 during the great home run chase missed games at end of season maris 61 mantle 54.
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Babe Ruth was a lifetime .342 hitter. Name another power hitter who even comes close to that career avg. Name any hitter that averaged above .342 :P
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That was one of the big shockers in Jim Bouton's book Ball Four (1970)....baseball players drank, cheated on their wives and took amphetamines
Awesome, must-read book. He also starred in Altman's 'The Long Goodbye.' Arnold had a bit part as a henchman, too. Solid flick.
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Does anyone know what the Babe's policy was on eating the pussies of whores?
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Does anyone know what the Babe's policy was on eating the pussies of whores?
its the 20's, you had to be a fool to eat that shit back in those days
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that was mantle in 1961 during the great home run chase missed games at end of season maris 61 mantle 54.
this. Mantle used drugs= period.
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Does anyone know what the Babe's policy was on eating the pussies of whores?
Sometimes you get the shaft, and sometimes you get a dime piece tranny.
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They want to remove drugs to make it an.even playing field. What they don't realize its always been an even playing field.
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this. Mantle used drugs= period.
Drugs? yes. Steroids? no.
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Babe just missed like 7 or 8 triple crowns. Maybe more. Though he usually led HRs and RBI, there were seasons he hit .370+ and still came up short of the batting crown.
.370 and still doesn't lead average! Insane.
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Babe just missed like 7 or 8 triple crowns. Maybe more. Though he usually led HRs and RBI, there were seasons he hit .370+ and still came up short of the batting crown.
.370 and still doesn't lead average! Insane.
Maybe this proves that it was much easier to hit for avg. back then. Nobody hits .370 these days.
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Maybe this proves that it was much easier to hit for avg. back then. Nobody hits .370 these days.
Maybe. Dude hit .393 in 1923 and didn't lead that year either. Ridiculous.
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Batting average is an overrated stat.
That said, your point stands - not many great powerhitters are masters of hitting themselves on base consistently.
Guys like Ruth, Foxx, Gehrig, Williams did it consistently and made the .300/500 club. Ok, Gehrig didn't technically make it, but anyone want to really point that out? He would have breeze in and came less than 10 HR's short before he got struck down.
I truly believe if circumstances had been a bit different, Hornsby would have hit more homeruns - arguably the greatest RH hitter of all time. Hank Greenberg would have done it easily were it not for injuries and military service in WW2.
To play your stat up, the only guys to hit .300 while hitting over 500HRs
Ruth
Foxx
Aaron
Mays
Thomas
Ramirez (his numbers are scary, actually)
Ott
A case could have been made that had Foxx and Gehrig not been cut down in their prime, they would have approached the 600 HR mark with .300 avgs. Not Babe Ruth territory, but incredible. And Williams retired with a better lifetime BA, and would have been a legit 600 HR guy had he not cut his career short due to the military service.
A-Rod could squeak in, but not at the pace he's going. He'll pull a Bonds and just miss hitting .300 lifetime. Just like the Mick did.
Pujols can very likely do it, if this season is just a slump.
Chipper Jones and Vlad Guerro are outside shots. Age has caught up with them. Legit .300 lifetime hitters, but lost the power stroke.
If Piazza hadn't caught all those years, his body would have let him get into that club easily.
I don't put Stan the Man Musial in that group. He's an all-time great, but wasn't a great powerhitter. He was very, very good at power.
My dark horse would have been Dimaggio. Maybe he makes it if he gets more years out of that body. Cause he was great.
Lol, Awesome post. Frank Thomas is one of my all-time Favorite players. This just proves how good he really was. He might have been the biggest player ever.
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I think the more relevant stat is probably OPS for the lay stat follower.
Here it's easier to measure how successful a man got on base (ability to hit and walk) and how hard he drove the ball (slugging).
RK Player Pos G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS▼
1 Ruth, B OF 2503 8399 2174 2873 506 136 714 2213 2062 1330 123 117 .342 .474 .690 1.164
2 Williams, T LF 2292 7706 1798 2654 525 71 521 1839 2019 709 24 17 .344 .482 .634 1.115
3 Gehrig, L 1B 2164 8001 1888 2721 534 163 493 1995 1508 790 102 101 .340 .447 .632 1.080
4 Bonds, B LF 2986 9847 2227 2935 601 77 762 1996 2558 1539 514 141 .298 .444 .607 1.051
5 Foxx, J 1B 2317 8134 1751 2646 458 125 534 1922 1452 1311 87 72 .325 .428 .609 1.038
6 Pujols, A 1B 1801 6684 1343 2177 480 15 463 1390 1013 748 90 35 .326 .416 .610 1.026
7 Greenberg, H 1B 1394 5193 1051 1628 379 71 331 1276 852 844 58 26 .313 .412 .605 1.017
8 Hornsby, R 2B 2259 8173 1579 2930 541 169 301 1584 1038 679 135 64 .358 .434 .577 1.010
9 Ramirez, M LF 2302 8244 1544 2574 547 20 555 1831 1329 1813 38 33 .312 .411 .585 .996
10 McGwire, M 1B 1874 6187 1167 1626 252 6 583 1414 1317 1596 12 8 .263 .394 .588 .982
Clearly, Ruth is a freak above all others.
And the top 12 OPS+ seasons of all time are all held by three men: Ruth, Bonds, and Williams. Of the 12 greatest seasons ever on offence, Ruth owns half of them. Not to diminish Bonds, who owns 4 himself including the two greatest of all-time. And Williams with 2.
Name OPS Year Team League Rank
Barry Bonds 1.422 (1.42173) 2004 San Francisco Giants NL 1
Barry Bonds 1.381 (1.38071) 2002 San Francisco Giants NL 2
Babe Ruth 1.379 (1.37908) 1920 New York Yankees AL 3
Barry Bonds 1.379 (1.37851) 2001 San Francisco Giants NL 4
Babe Ruth 1.359 (1.35863) 1921 New York Yankees AL 5
Babe Ruth 1.309 (1.30891) 1923 New York Yankees AL 6
Ted Williams 1.287 (1.28745) 1941 Boston Red Sox AL 7
Barry Bonds 1.278 (1.27781) 2003 San Francisco Giants NL 8
Babe Ruth 1.258 (1.25819) 1927 New York Yankees AL 9
Ted Williams 1.257 (1.25659) 1957 Boston Red Sox AL 10
Babe Ruth 1.253 (1.25295) 1926 New York Yankees AL 11
Babe Ruth 1.252 (1.25172) 1924 New York Yankees AL 12
Agreed, but it was proven that Bonds was juiced. That makes Ruth's stats stand out even more.
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SF giant stadium is only 309 feet the right field foul pole
yankee stadium during ruth era was about 350
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Let's look at it in terms of OPS adjusted then, which takes into account the fields being played on, the level of competition played against...essentially a stat that tries to normalize the variance you might see when trying to compare a juiced guy against a guy from the non-juice era. Put another way, a stat that allows one to compensate for the Coors Field effect on Larry Walker's hitting!
1. Babe Ruth, 206
2. Ted Williams, 190
3. Barry Bonds, 181
4. Lou Gehrig, 178
5. Rogers Hornsby, 175
6. Mickey Mantle, 172
7. Dan Brouthers, 170
8. Joe Jackson, 169
9. Ty Cobb, 168
9. Albert Pujols, 168
11. Pete Browning, 163
12. Jimmie Foxx, 163
There are some serious movers and shakers, aren't there? Foxx drops way down. And what's Ty Cobb and Shoeless Joe and Dan Brouthers doing there? And Mickey Mantle shows up all of a sudden. Pretty neat. Of course, the clincher is that no matter how you cut it, Ruth/Bonds/Gehrig/Williams are the greatest hitters of all-time. It's hard to pick anybody better.
I guess that's why every kid in America is taught to hit left!
I'm impressed. You definately know your baseball. I think Griffey juiced in my opinion. He was also the most gifted player I have ever seen personally.
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What is OPS?
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Onbase plus slugging.
Pretty easy: add your on-base average to your slugging average.
I think Bond's OPS is skewed though. It's not Babe's fault that modern day pitchers were too pussy to pitch to Bonds. How many "intentional walks" were used in the old days?
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Does anyone know what the Babe's policy was on eating the pussies of whores?
Check with Bid Dicked Bob he may know.
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Batting average is an overrated stat.
This.
The problem with batting average is that it assigns the same value for a single that it does for a double, triple and HR, all of which are more valuable. It also ignores walks, which are valuable as well.
I also like how you pointed toward OPS as the next step.
It's funny, I see a lot of progression in terms of understanding stats that goes from show stats like BA, RBI, to OPS, to OPS+ to WAR, wOBA, BABIP, etc...... But it's funny, somewhere in the middle, they start misusing the stat, and become dumber as they try to get smarter.
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I think Bond's OPS is skewed though. It's not Babe's fault that modern day pitchers were too pussy to pitch to Bonds. How many "intentional walks" were used in the old days?
Had they pitched to him it probably would have just balanced out with higher slugging. Bonds was ridiculous, he did not miss pitches to hit.
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Had they pitched to him it probably would have just balanced out with higher slugging. Bonds was ridiculous, he did not miss pitches to hit.
Yup, that season was probably the best single season ever. He got one pitch to hit per game, and usually hit it.
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The year he hit all those homers was incredible. It was before most teams realized "holy shit this guy's a robot" and kept pitching to him and he just kept jacking them out of the park.
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The year he hit all those homers was incredible. It was before most teams realized "holy shit this guy's a robot" and kept pitching to him and he just kept jacking them out of the park.
i went to a dodgers game that year, two homeruns in a row and they walked him intentionally the next 4 at bats. Never seen anyone so dominating, maybe Arod at times....bonds was a man among boys.
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Miguel Cabrera has an outside shot at 600/.300. He just became the 14th guy to get to 300 HR's before his 30th BDay. He's an incredible talent....won the batting title as a RH hitter with zero speed.
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In the tradition of Mickey Mantle he also likes to get deep in his cups.
ARod broke a bone in his hand yesterday. I remember when him, Griffey, and a little later Pujols were all shoe-ins to supposedly break the home run record.
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That said, the game is progressing. In 100 years, I wonder what stat they'll revere? I wonder if OPS won't be viewed as "incomplete" the way BA is.
OPS is viewed as incomplete by some, who cite it doesn't account for park factors, opposing defense, etc. I think it's a pretty good indicator to start with, but sometimes you have to look further. Dustin Pedroia is a good example - the disparity between his home/road splits shows his numbers are inflated by playing in Fenway park. He's almost a competely different player on the road.
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I don't think Gridfey juiced. His body didn't change and he prob wouldn't have broken down so much if he had juiced. Just a flawless swing
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I don't think Griffey even worked out much, much less bothered with P.E.D.
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I think the OPS+ mark helps to account for that. It's like Larry Walker. Would he have been one of his generation's greatest hitters without Coors Field? Maybe, but then maybe his teammates wouldn't have been. And we all know Walker saw a lot of pitches he shouldn't have because he was surrounded by Bichette, et al, who were crushing it all around him. Who do you pitch to on that 90's Rockies lineup, in that field? Crazy.
OPS+ tries to account for it, though doesn't account for everything.
And then to get even deeper, we can always just go with WAR scores. I mean, I think a lot of HOF balloters lean a bit too hard on WAR scores. But then others do not. They fall prey to the simplicites of baseball, like the "wow factor" stuff such as personality, homeruns, average, media skills...the bullshit.
I also like the Base Runs metric, which gets down to the core issue of baseball - scoring runs, and who puts themselves in the best position to do so.
I would like it if you posted in the Sports Forum. This is good stuff.
Yeah, the problem with OPS+ is that, while probably directionally correct, people try to use it as an absolute. i.e. Player A at 95 is a slightly below average player, while Player B at 105 is a slightly above average. The reality is the could be almost the same player. .
I always take adjusted metrics with a grain of salt.
Case in point, Hideki Matsui: 2009 OPS: .876, OPS+ 123 2010 OPS: .826 OPS+ 126. I get that it’s trying to adjust for Yankee Stadium, but to say he’s better in 2010 slugging a full .50 pts less is tough for me.
I only look at WAR in terms of direction, and even then, ignore the defensive part of it. Defensive metrics like Zone Rating, are pretty inaccuarate until the sample reaches three years (even the creators of the stat admit this). Since WAR is cumulative, using the defensive metrics with an SS of a few months, half year, or even a full season don’t mean much to me.
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I remember one year someone came up with a system similar to the one listed above which included all these statistical variables and it concluded that Brent Barry was by far the best player in the league. :)
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Love baseball, but the accounting side of it just makes my head swim. ;D
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Love baseball, but the accounting side of it just makes my head swim. ;D
There has to be balance. So many Sabr types misuse the stat because they don't understand the context of it.
The best teams use a mix of scouting and high level stat analysis.
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I remember one year someone came up with a system similar to the one listed above which included all these statistical variables and it concluded that Brent Barry was by far the best player in the league. :)
lol!
I've never heard of Brent Barry. :-[
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Babe Ruth was a lifetime .342 hitter. Name another power hitter who even comes close to that career avg. Name any hitter that averaged above .342 :P
see above ted williams and lou gehrig. gehrig was mr rbi.
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Awesome, must-read book. He also starred in Altman's 'The Long Goodbye.' Arnold had a bit part as a henchman, too. Solid flick.
bouton had his own tv show for awhile a sitcom about baseball
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lol!
I've never heard of Brent Barry. :-[
He's a basketball player, unless there's some baseball player with the same name who I've never heard of.
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Maybe this proves that it was much easier to hit for avg. back then. Nobody hits .370 these days.
bonds, galgalarra,walker, mcuthceon is hitting 373 as we speak.
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Mickey could have been the best of them all if he didn't have all the leg injuries. Dude was lightning fast before his knee got all fucked up.
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bouton had his own tv show for awhile a sitcom about baseball
Hey, he's really, really good. :)
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Somebody tell me how many hotdogs he eat in one day
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I don't think Griffey even worked out much, much less bothered with P.E.D.
griffey didnt even lift weights much at all straight from him. Thnk it was griffey who said that could be wrong.
Always loved watching him play, never seen someone make hiting a baseball 500 feet look so effortless.
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Griffey and Williams had the prettiest swings of all time.
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Griffey and Williams had the prettiest swings of all time.
While not pretty in any way, shape or form, I always thought that Jeff Bagwell had a really cool looking swing.
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While not pretty in any way, shape or form, I always thought that Jeff Bagwell had a really cool looking swing.
Ok. For right handers, I always liked McGwire and Piazza.
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And Mike Schmidt.
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Ok. For right handers, I always liked McGwire and Piazza.
Especially McGwire during his 70 homer year when combined with the way he eyed in on the pitcher with that intense look. EVERYONE was anticipating a homer every time he came to bat during the second half of the season.
I liked Bagwell's swing cause it looked like he used every ounce of his body into that uppercut motion.
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I'd bet the house that the games played from 1900 to well after World War II were almost as fake as the WWE. Babe Ruth probably was thrown more cookies than any other player in history. That time period was sketchy as shit. The black socks scandal was just the tip of the iceberg. Much like that ref in NBA who was fixing/betting on games.
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(http://i2.listal.com/image/2577845/600full-the-goonies-screenshot.jpg)
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I'd bet the house that the games played from 1900 to well after World War II were almost as fake as the WWE. Babe Ruth probably was thrown more cookies than any other player in history. That time period was sketchy as shit. The black socks scandal was just the tip of the iceberg. Much like that ref in NBA who was fixing/betting on games.
Right, because having the favorites win championships left and right is always the best course of action for people looking to secure a big score on bets. ::)
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I'm sure there were other situations like the Black Sox thing that just weren't caught though. If it happened once you know it probably happened other times.
I think something like that happening today in any major pro sports league is unlikely to the point of impossibility since the players make so much money. Unless you get most of a starting lineup in trouble with the mob or something it's not going to happen.
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I think something like that happening today in any major pro sports league is unlikely to the point of impossibility since the players make so much money. Unless you get most of a starting lineup in trouble with the mob or something it's not going to happen.
It recently happened in the NBA.
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It recently happened in the NBA.
With a referee. They make just a little less money than the players.
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I can buy an isolated incident here and there in MLB history...Hell, maybe even a few examples that we don't know about that included Hall of Fame caliber players. But for a period of 50 years to be "almost as fake as the WWE?? Nah...sorry. too wacked out, conspiracy theory sounding.
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I was watching some meaningless mid-season NBA game maybe six or seven years ago and Baron Davis missed a wide open layup with just a couple seconds left and his team up by 3. I checked the spread on the game and it was 3.5 ;D
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I was watching some meaningless mid-season NBA game maybe six or seven years ago and Baron Davis missed a wide open layup with just a couple seconds left and his team up by 3. I checked the spread on the game and it was 3.5 ;D
6 or 7 years ago Baron Davis would have dunked the ball on a wide open attempt but since that is harder to fake and miss than a lay up, you might be on to something. 8)
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I can buy an isolated incident here and there in MLB history...Hell, maybe even a few examples that we don't know about that included Hall of Fame caliber players. But for a period of 50 years to be "almost as fake as the WWE?? Nah...sorry. too wacked out, conspiracy theory sounding.
I'm talking about average pitchers throwing up meatballs to the superstars of the game and getting a little extra pocket money. And because of that, a lot of players stats imop are not legit. Esp/ around the war time stats.
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Still happens today.
Ref: Alex Rodriguez
Please elaborate.
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You didn't hear about A-Rod stealing signs? Maybe even getting some pitches he shouldn't have from buddies on the other team as a make-good for tip-offs?
http://larrybrownsports.com/baseball/rick-sutcliffe-alexrodriguez-mark-teixeira-stealing-signs-tipping-pitches/7573
Could be conjecture...rumor and innuendo. But with A-Rod, I wouldn't put it past him. Hell, I wouldn't put anything past any pro. You do what you have to do to win. Stealing signs and helping your own teammate...I don't see a problem with that.
Turning over your signs to the opposition in hopes of getting a meatball to hit in your next AB...that's low.
Now I remember. I didn't make anything of it then, and still don't. I agree with your assessment completely. I have no problem with stealing sign, provided it's on the field and not being done using equipment.
As for him turning them over, I don't believe it.
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(http://i2.listal.com/image/2577845/600full-the-goonies-screenshot.jpg)
HEY YOU GUYS. ;D ;D
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(http://i2.listal.com/image/2577845/600full-the-goonies-screenshot.jpg)
:o ???
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Babe Ruth looked the same from the day he started playing , until cancer killed him..... However here is Barry Bonds today, Picuture taken a few days ago
ALL DRUGS!!!!!!!!
(http://l3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/80PQQd2.qts1DtcI6cBo2A--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTMxMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/sptusmlbexperts/bonds2007.jpg)
(http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/.cLoDFKTPANeMsnrvu5C5A--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/sptusmlbexperts/bondsbicycle.jpg)
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Babe Ruth looked the same from the day he started playing , until cancer killed him..... However here is Barry Bonds today, Picuture taken a few days ago
ALL DRUGS!!!!!!!!
(http://l3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/80PQQd2.qts1DtcI6cBo2A--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTMxMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/sptusmlbexperts/bonds2007.jpg)
(http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/.cLoDFKTPANeMsnrvu5C5A--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/sptusmlbexperts/bondsbicycle.jpg)
Damn that's crazy. Right up there with the Tom Prince transformation
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Here's Big Mac recently.
(http://www.ramirohelmeyer.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Mark-McGwire-Ramiro-Helmeyer.jpg)
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Not quite as dramatic as Bonds but pretty narrow in the shoulders
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HEY YOU GUYS. ;D ;D
just shedding some lolz to a boring thread about baseball lol