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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Straw Man on August 12, 2012, 08:30:39 AM
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That's something Paul Ryan said yesterday
“Our rights come from nature and God, not from government. That’s who we are. That’s how we built this country. That’s who we are. That’s what made us great. That’s our founding. We promise equal opportunity, not equal outcomes.”
Do statements like this appeal to most Americans? I know this is a popular idea with libertarians and christians but I wonder if statements like this turn off more voters than it attracts
Do black people agree with that or women or disabled people or gays? How about people of all races who just aren't that religious or happened to have noticed that our history of access to equal rights in this country had to be fought for and is an ongoing battle. Maybe when this country was founded God just didn't want black people to have the right to be free or for woman to have the right to vote. I guess it's possible God gradually changed his position on those ideas and that's why we no longer have slavery and woman have the right to vote. I guess that's possible.
Ryan and the Repubs are in full honeymoon mode right now but as he starts to get 24/7 media attention it will be interesting to see if the cracks start to appear in the facade like they did with all the other Repubs. I don't expect him to be a walking and talking disaster like Palin but who knows what will happen. This guy really hasn't had that much national attention, at least not in anything more than a soundbite.
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ryan will shift to speaking to a MODERATE audience soon. That's just reminding the right-wing that he still loves them.
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ryan will shift to speaking to a MODERATE audience soon. That's just reminding the right-wing that he still loves them.
I don't think he will
I think he's on the ticket to shore up the Republican base who don't really like Romney
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I don't think he will
I think he's on the ticket to shore up the Republican base who don't really like Romney
good point... but Romney is going to need his baby face to win soccer moms. He can't be full venom liek Palin was. A lot of people who thought she was inspirational or incredible were turned off by "palling with terrorists" and other venom she spat. She was a trashy rude shrew by the end of the race - just pure venom. Ryan is smart enough to do it with dignity.
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good point... but Romney is going to need his baby face to win soccer moms. He can't be full venom liek Palin was. A lot of people who thought she was inspirational or incredible were turned off by "palling with terrorists" and other venom she spat. She was a trashy rude shrew by the end of the race - just pure venom. Ryan is smart enough to do it with dignity.
IMO - Ryan will be the right wing attack dog and Romney will try to be the more mature type and appeal to the center. I do think Ryan is a heck of a lot smarter than Palin and won't need to write notes on his hand and wink to the camera. I also don't think it will be too long before Ryan says something kooky and controversial. He has a pretty radical agenda and from what little I know about him I don't see him trying to tone down his beliefs of rhetoric
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IMO - Ryan will be the right wing attack dog and Romney will try to be the more mature type and appeal to the center. I do think Ryan is a heck of a lot smarter than Palin and won't need to write notes on his hand and wink to the camera. I also don't think it will be too long before Ryan says something kooky and controversial. He has a pretty radical agenda and from what little I know about him I don't see him trying to tone down his beliefs of rhetoric
looking back... wow, the 2012 VP pick was hilarious. Winking, I mean really? Winking?
I'm a little disappointed Romney chose a prepared professional - a train wreck would have been way more fun to watch.
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looking back... wow, the 2012 VP pick was hilarious. Winking, I mean really? Winking?
I'm a little disappointed Romney chose a prepared professional - a train wreck would have been way more fun to watch.
you never know
Ryan could turn out to be a train wreck
who thought Palin was going to be such a disaster on the 2nd day after we knew she was the pick
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If you actually believe that our rights come from the government, then you should be ready for them to be taken away at any time. If you believe they are from nature and what ever God you believe in, then the government can't take them away.
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who thought Palin was going to be such a disaster on the 2nd day after we knew she was the pick
I did. I dissected her first speech - her offensive finger pointing and her obvious BS about how ready she was for this job.
Paul Ryan isn't trying to sell himself - because worthy candidates dont need to. The moment someone tries to convince you how ready they are - you know they are not.
Ryan has spend 14 years writing national law, he's a policy wonk, and he's been very conservative all the while. He's a millionaire who has his shit together.
Palin? She stole building materials from an arena her town didn't need, to build her own home. Remember?
She was a royal fck up, a grifter who used her looks to dupe a desperate Mccain. An unvetted hack. Repubs spend 10 weeks trying to convince swing voters she was ready. They already KNOW Ryan is ready, because he steps past that and delivers solutions.
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Straw - he dead. Right - we are endowed by our creator w certain inalienable. Rights.
I know you are a socialist and a communist who loves the idea of the govt ordering everyone around , but most people disagree w you.
That's something Paul Ryan said yesterday
“Our rights come from nature and God, not from government. That’s who we are. That’s how we built this country. That’s who we are. That’s what made us great. That’s our founding. We promise equal opportunity, not equal outcomes.”
Do statements like this appeal to most Americans? I know this is a popular idea with libertarians and christians but I wonder if statements like this turn off more voters than it attracts
Do black people agree with that or women or disabled people or gays? How about people of all races who just aren't that religious or happened to have noticed that our history of access to equal rights in this country had to be fought for and is an ongoing battle. Maybe when this country was founded God just didn't want black people to have the right to be free or for woman to have the right to vote. I guess it's possible God gradually changed his position on those ideas and that's why we no longer have slavery and woman have the right to vote. I guess that's possible.
Ryan and the Repubs are in full honeymoon mode right now but as he starts to get 24/7 media attention it will be interesting to see if the cracks start to appear in the facade like they did with all the other Repubs. I don't expect him to be a walking and talking disaster like Palin but who knows what will happen. This guy really hasn't had that much national attention, at least not in anything more than a soundbite.
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Straw - he dead. Right - we are endowed by our creator w certain inalienable. Rights.
I know you are a socialist and a communist who loves the idea of the govt ordering everyone around , but most people disagree w you.
yet is it so often this evil govt that USES God to achieve their political goals. Some people are just created gay, plain and simple. Any politicial shitting on that is shittong on something created by God.
i heard some batshit lady on fox radio last night, saying she could never vote for an athiest, cause without that belief in God, he'd have no respect for our rights. She's rather elect a lib who poses with his bible, than a man of science who is an athiest but would rule by the constitution. Un-freakin-real.
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“Our rights come from nature and God, not from government.
Now why didnt that work for the natives when Coumbus & Co arrived ?
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yet is it so often this evil govt that USES God to achieve their political goals. Some people are just created gay, plain and simple. Any politicial shitting on that is shittong on something created by God.
i heard some batshit lady on fox radio last night, saying she could never vote for an athiest, cause without that belief in God, he'd have no respect for our rights. She's rather elect a lib who poses with his bible, than a man of science who is an athiest but would rule by the constitution. Un-freakin-real.
Irrelevant, his statement is that our rights came from nature/god.
Why is she batshit crazy? With no belief in a power higher than yourself, what is there to answer to? Why do you think communist are so anti-religion? There can be no power above the government
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Irrelevant, his statement is that our rights came from nature/god.
Why is she batshit crazy? With no belief in a power higher than yourself, what is there to answer to? Why do you think communist are so anti-religion? There can be no power above the government
Or, as I've said many times, atheism is simply man worshipping HIMSELF.
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Or, as I've said many times, atheism is simply man worshipping HIMSELF.
Leftist fanatics worship these politicians as if they were gods. Why else do you see idiots like straw and 180 begging everyone to give them more power to run everyone's lives?
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If you actually believe that our rights come from the government, then you should be ready for them to be taken away at any time. If you believe they are from nature and what ever God you believe in, then the government can't take them away.
So when women didn't have the right to vote in this country all they neede to do was show up at the polls and say Jesus, Allah or Quetzalcoatl had granted her the right to vote. How about convicted felons. Can't they just assert that Shiva says rhey have the right to vote?
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So when women didn't have the right to vote in this country all they neede to do was show up at the polls and say Jesus, Allah or Quetzalcoatl had granted her the right to vote. How about convicted felons. Can't they just assert that Shiva says rhey have the right to vote?
Just admit you hate the constituin and declaration of independence. You leftists and communists always dabble around the issue, but just fucking admit it already. You want the govt to run your life , every aspect of it.
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Leftist fanatics worship these politicians as if they were gods. Why else do you see idiots like straw and 180 begging everyone to give them more power to run everyone's lives?
Strange perspective given that you're the only one on this board that creates adoration threads for whichever politician you have a crush on at the moment
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it sfunny to me that a person would elect a person who will work their entire career to limit freedoms and grow govt (the lib) because the lib poses with a bible.
You could have an athiest who just wants to see proof of God before signging up - and even though they will fix deficit and return the US to a small Govt success, can't vote for him. Just funny to me.
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it sfunny to me that a person would elect a person who will work their entire career to limit freedoms and grow govt (the lib) because the lib poses with a bible.
You could have an athiest who just wants to see proof of God before signging up - and even though they will fix deficit and return the US to a small Govt success, can't vote for him. Just funny to me.
We don't have to worry about that anyway. There may be fiscal conservatives who aren't social conservatives. But, I've yet to see any social conservatives who aren't also fiscal ones. So, there is no "either/or" scenario if you pick a social conservative. Hence, you have a guy like Paul Ryan.
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We don't have to worry about that anyway. There may be fiscal conservatives who aren't social conservatives. But, I've yet to see any social conservatives who aren't also fiscal ones. So, there is no "either/or" scenario if you pick a social conservative. Hence, you have a guy like Paul Ryan.
Question for 180 and straw - where do our rights come from?
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Straw - he dead. Right - we are endowed by our creator w certain inalienable. Rights.
I know you are a socialist and a communist who loves the idea of the govt ordering everyone around , but most people disagree w you.
I thought we were endowed by our guns with certain rights?
I know the phrase "god given rights" is popular, but let's be clear... Our rights come from people. People with amazing ideals and the fortitude to fight for those beliefs.
God didn't give anyone shit.
People fought for them. People gave us those rights.
Not government and not God.
Also, Ryan isn't a bad dude. I hate his tax plan.
According to reports, under the Ryan plan, the year that we know about Romneys taxes, under the Ryan plan, would have had Romney paying a mere .089 percent in taxes for the year.
Seems a bit fucked up.
If its true that he wants to shift the tax burden to the middle class, then I take a huge issue with that.
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Question for 180 and straw - where do our rights come from?
The constitution, a set of beliefs agreed upon by people who lived here before us.
I believe in a higher power, but to cite Him as the source of our rights? Link to proof? lol... people on the other side of the world can cite their god as proof women are both WITHOUT inalienable rights, can't they? ;)
my definition - our rights come from forefathers - is technically acccurate. Yours is romantic and beautiful but not provable. HTH.
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Read the preamble to the. Declaration of Independence.
I thought we were endowed by our guns with certain rights?
I know the phrase "god given rights" is popular, but let's be clear... Our rights come from people. People with amazing ideals and the fortitude to fight for those beliefs.
God didn't give anyone shit.
People fought for them. People gave us those rights.
Not government and not God.
Also, Ryan isn't a bad dude. I hate his tax plan.
According to reports, under the Ryan plan, the year that we know about Romneys taxes, under the Ryan plan, would have had Romney paying a mere .089 percent in taxes for the year.
Seems a bit fucked up.
If its true that he wants to shift the tax burden to the middle class, then I take a huge issue with that.
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Read the preamble to the. Declaration of Independence.*
*Written by men with their own agenda. A noble one, but a human agenda nonetheless.
We have the rights of the LAND, the rights of this country, with borders defined by men, by rules defined by men. If 33 was born a woman in iran, he couldn't cite his god as NOT giving him/her inalienable right - he would blame the dicks in charge for not letting him vote.
So it's credit to God when convenient, but oppression by men when the rights aren't there?
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The constitution, a set of beliefs agreed upon by people who lived here before us.
I believe in a higher power, but to cite Him as the source of our rights? Link to proof? lol... people on the other side of the world can cite their god as proof women are both WITHOUT inalienable rights, can't they? ;)
my definition - our rights come from forefathers - is technically acccurate. Yours is romantic and beautiful but not provable. HTH.
So if your messiah, the one who said the constitution is fatally flawed, and wants to overthrow the USC and turn us into a full blown Marxist state like he desires, takes away your rights as outlined in the BOR you are cool with it if he can get enough in congress to go along with it?
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You seriously are an ignorant person.
*Written by men with their own agenda. A noble one, but a human agenda nonetheless.
We have the rights of the LAND, the rights of this country, with borders defined by men, by rules defined by men. If 33 was born a woman in iran, he couldn't cite his god as NOT giving him/her inalienable right - he would blame the dicks in charge for not letting him vote.
So it's credit to God when convenient, but oppression by men when the rights aren't there?
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So if your messiah, the one who said the constitution is fatally flawed, and wants to overthrow the USC and turn us into a full blown Marxist state like he desires, takes away your rights as outlined in the BOR you are cool with it if he can get enough in congress to go along with it?
stop making this about dem or repub or whatever.
"Certain unalienable rights" = What, exactly?
If you are a female born in Iran, hey, guess what - those right are certainly "alienable". You dont get them.
Now, to say God CHOOSES to make people born in this chunk of hands bestowed these rights, and yet those born in the sand with a vagina NOT to have these rights?
No, 33, that's not factual. Stop thinking with your little fairy dress and think FACTS. If Hitler had won WWII, you would have been born into a US without the Constitution. You'd be reading a bill of rights that would be WAY different, and you wouldn't know any better. This whole 'unalienable' thing is great, and we are very lucky to live here. But really, it's not "REAL".
you have those rights because 250 years ago, some really great guys wrote it down that you should, and an armed populace has ensured that hasn't changed. The invisible dude in the sky did nothing but "inspire" jefferson and franklin and friends. In your heart, it feels good to see God in the white robe with a magic wand giving white males in the USA certain rights... but tell us why he gave black men FEWER rights when taht constitution was written? ???
33, your rights are granted by men. You choose to live in their country. Period.
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So in addition to knowing next to nothing about economics, now I see you know practically nothing as well about the declaration of independence , natural law, etc.
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So in addition to knowing next to nothing about economics, now I see you know practically nothing as well about the declaration of independence , natural law, etc.
Both were written by men. period.
If hitler and stalin were running the USA in 1776/1783, you'd be lecturing me about how other rights were 'unalienable'.
Everyhting you "know" was taught to you based upon doctrine created by men with their own agendas, albeit noble ones.
Basing it upon what you "feel", on words from an invisible man in the sky, right? Yes, you "know" all about us. Sweet.
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33, I dont think we are going to resolve anything. I believe in a creator, but the way he's been painted by men with political agendas, well...
Are animals born with unalienable rights? how's that cheeseburger? Or God only gave us these rights? Oh, women in Iran don't have them. God only gave them to people born in the USA. Luckily that's us.
The fact is, we're just smart monkeys on a rock in space. "unalienable" rights is a cool concept, but it was written down by hippies in the 1760s and 1770s.
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You seriously are an ignorant person.
God is meaner than you credit her
She did not give you an inalienable right to intelligence
however she did allow you an inalieable supply of stubborness and stupidity
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Both were written by men. period.
If hitler and stalin were running the USA in 1776/1783, you'd be lecturing me about how other rights were 'unalienable'.
Everyhting you "know" was taught to you based upon doctrine created by men with their own agendas, albeit noble ones.
Basing it upon what you "feel", on words from an invisible man in the sky, right? Yes, you "know" all about us. Sweet.
Would you have these rights if there was no government? And you do realize the first 10 amendments are the bill of rights? If the answer to the first question is yes, then they are natural/god given rights
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Would you have these rights if there was no government? And you do realize the first 10 amendments are the bill of rights? If the answer to the first question is yes, then they are natural/god given rights
I believe in the Bill of rights and the COnstitution.
What I'm saying is that assigning their existence to an entity (God) who existence we cannot prove - it makes no sense.
I believe in a lot of things,
I think yall have your emotions tied in here - I love these rights, but we are afforded them by the lawmakers and authorities of the land. Accept it. You can't run around naked outdoors, but you can carry a gun - tell me which is the 'god given' right? 33333386 can't carry a gun in NYC - How can a guy named Bloomberg superceded the good lord when it comes to law?
In the late 1700s, some cool guy decided what the top ten rights would be (bill of rights). Then they started a war, got to be in charge, and said everyone who lives in these borders gets these rights. "God given"? What is the criteria, again, for what God says we can do? ;)
I am not an athiest by any means - but I accept the "given" rights are the ones granted by those who run the country in which you live. If you're born in Iran, you don't have the rights people born here get? God chooses based on borders, right? No - man does.
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I believe in the Bill of rights and the COnstitution.
What I'm saying is that assigning their existence to an entity (God) who existence we cannot prove - it makes no sense.
I believe in a lot of things,
I think yall have your emotions tied in here - I love these rights, but we are afforded them by the lawmakers and authorities of the land. Accept it. You can't run around naked outdoors, but you can carry a gun - tell me which is the 'god given' right? 33333386 can't carry a gun in NYC - How can a guy named Bloomberg superceded the good lord when it comes to law?
In the late 1700s, some cool guy decided what the top ten rights would be (bill of rights). Then they started a war, got to be in charge, and said everyone who lives in these borders gets these rights. "God given"? What is the criteria, again, for what God says we can do? ;)
I am not an athiest by any means - but I accept the "given" rights are the ones granted by those who run the country in which you live. If you're born in Iran, you don't have the rights people born here get? God chooses based on borders, right? No - man does.
Not so we live in a democratically elected representative republic. The only reason a right can be curtailed is because we allow it.
Read the bible, that will give a pretty good idea of where God stands.
Back to original question, if there were no government, would you:
Have the right to say what you want ( free speech)
Practice whatever religion you choose?
The ability to protect your self?
These are just some natural rights that a government does not give you.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_and_legal_rights
for the retards like 180 straw and the others
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_and_legal_rights
for the retards like 180 straw and the others
333 - are you suggesting that Ryan was referring specifically to "natural rights" and not at all to legal rights when he said our rights come from "god and nature" ?
If so, exactly what natural rights is Ryan referring to (would have been nice for him to make that distinction of course
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That's something Paul Ryan said yesterday
“Our rights come from nature and God, not from government. That’s who we are. That’s how we built this country. That’s who we are. That’s what made us great. That’s our founding. We promise equal opportunity, not equal outcomes.”
Do statements like this appeal to most Americans? I know this is a popular idea with libertarians and christians but I wonder if statements like this turn off more voters than it attracts
Do black people agree with that or women or disabled people or gays? How about people of all races who just aren't that religious or happened to have noticed that our history of access to equal rights in this country had to be fought for and is an ongoing battle. Maybe when this country was founded God just didn't want black people to have the right to be free or for woman to have the right to vote. I guess it's possible God gradually changed his position on those ideas and that's why we no longer have slavery and woman have the right to vote. I guess that's possible.
Ryan and the Repubs are in full honeymoon mode right now but as he starts to get 24/7 media attention it will be interesting to see if the cracks start to appear in the facade like they did with all the other Repubs. I don't expect him to be a walking and talking disaster like Palin but who knows what will happen. This guy really hasn't had that much national attention, at least not in anything more than a soundbite.
Starting to like this guy
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333 - are you suggesting that Ryan was referring specifically to "natural rights" and not at all to legal rights when he said our rights come from "god and nature" ?
If so, exactly what natural rights is Ryan referring to (would have been nice for him to make that distinction of course
Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Again, go take a civics class along w 180 as you two are hopelessly ignorant.
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Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Again, go take a civics class along w 180 as you two are hopelessly ignorant.
slaves certainly got to enjoy those three things at the time we created this country
women too for that matter
now I see what Ryan was talking about
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slaves certainly got to enjoy those three things at the time we created this country
women too for that matter
now I see what Ryan was talking about
Lol. More ignorance from you. The issue of slavery was hotly contested at the time of adoption of the constitution and the failure to deal w it appropriately led to a civil war resulting in the deaths of 600,000 to fix it remember?
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Lol. More ignorance from you. The issue of slavery was hotly contested at the time of adoption of the constitution and the failure to deal w it appropriately led to a civil war resulting in the deaths of 600,000 to fix it remember?
no kidding
so you're saying even man took away the natural rights of slaves
has anyone reminded Ryan of this
women back at the time of the founding weren't exactly free to pursuit happiness either and didn't have much liberty
the one group that was free to pursuit liberty and happiness were the rich white men
maybe that's who Ryan was trying to communicate with when he made that statement
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LOL. Yah, go move to fucking north Korea or Cuba asshole.
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LOL. Yah, go move to fucking north Korea or Cuba asshole.
what's that got do with my post
hopefully now that Ryan has told us our rights (only a few it seems) come from maybe someone weill ask him more questions about
you'd think that since god gives us the right of "life" that he/she/it would have given us the right to food and shelter since you kind of need that for life
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Or, as I've said many times, atheism is simply man worshipping HIMSELF.
Even for someone lacking critical thinking skills, such as yourself, this an incredibly stupid thing to say.
I hope you grow up before it's all said and done.
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what's that got do with my post
hopefully now that Ryan has told us our rights (only a few it seems) come from maybe someone weill ask him more questions about
you'd think that since god gives us the right of "life" that he/she/it would have given us the right to food and shelter since you kind of need that for life
I could care less if the ocean gave us that right. the idea that thugs and pieces of garbage like Obama Clinton boeh ER bush McConnell give us rights is insane and communistic which I know you favor.
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I could care less if the ocean gave us that right. the idea that thugs and pieces of garbage like Obama Clinton boeh ER bush McConnell give us rights is insane and communistic which I know you favor.
I have no idea what you're attempting to say here
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So if your messiah, the one who said the constitution is fatally flawed, and wants to overthrow the USC and turn us into a full blown Marxist state like he desires, takes away your rights as outlined in the BOR you are cool with it if he can get enough in congress to go along with it?
You really need to come up with some new material.
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You really need to come up with some new material.
You real
Need to research the Fay communist ghetto racist thug you support. Obama called the USC fatally flawed Because it is a charter of negative liberties and does not redistribute the wealth.
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what you straw and 240 dont seem to grasp is that simply b/c a govt has taken these rights away does not mean they do not stem from God.
Just b/c a govt has taken the right away doesnt mean the rights come from the govt. Thats why ppl argue and fight back...
If they came from govt then what right do we have to react negatively to anything?
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what you straw and 240 dont seem to grasp is that simply b/c a govt has taken these rights away does not mean they do not stem from God.
Just b/c a govt has taken the right away doesnt mean the rights come from the govt. Thats why ppl argue and fight back...
If they came from govt then what right do we have to react negatively to anything?
Is deomocracy natural?
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what you straw and 240 dont seem to grasp is that simply b/c a govt has taken these rights away does not mean they do not stem from God.
Just b/c a govt has taken the right away doesnt mean the rights come from the govt. Thats why ppl argue and fight back...
If they came from govt then what right do we have to react negatively to anything?
what rights are you referring to specifically?
the life, liberty, pursuit of happiness thing or something else or more?
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Is deomocracy natural?
We don't have a democracy. We have a constitutional republic , not that you ignorant, incompetent, idiotic, and illiterate leftists care one bit.
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what rights are you referring to specifically?
the life, liberty, pursuit of happiness thing or something else or more?
sure...
and you will say something about slaves or women...
and I will say that the fact ppl fought for their rights is proof that they arent based in govt.
If that was so, why would ppl feel they had the ability to rebel?
I mean if our rights are based in govt then there is nothing higher then govt....
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sure...
and you will say something about slaves or women...
and I will say that the fact ppl fought for their rights is proof that they arent based in govt.
If that was so, why would ppl feel they had the ability to rebel?
I mean if our rights are based in govt then there is nothing higher then govt....
life came from my parents and not god so that one is out (if you believe in God and think your life came from god then that's certainly your choice)
liberty depends on where you live so i guess if you believe God chose the place where you were born then maybe he chose to give you liberty too
pursuit of happiness - that has more to do with the time and the means so again, I don't see how God factors into that either
At what point do I get to give credit to myself for my ability to pursuit happiness?
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life came from my parents and not god so that one is out (if you believe in God and think your life came from god then that's certainly your choice)
liberty depends on where you live so i guess if you believe God chose the place where you were born then maybe he chose to give you liberty too
pursuit of happiness - that has more to do with the time and the means so again, I don't see how God factors into that either
At what point do I get to give credit to myself for my ability to pursuit happiness?
Jesus Christ are you fucking ignorant of our history. No wonder you are an Obama drone.
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life came from my parents and not god so that one is out (if you believe in God and think your life came from god then that's certainly your choice)
liberty depends on where you live so i guess if you believe God chose the place where you were born then maybe he chose to give you liberty too
pursuit of happiness - that has more to do with the time and the means so again, I don't see how God factors into that either
At what point do I get to give credit to myself for my ability to pursuit happiness?
again you want to point out situations where ppl or govt have limited those rights and say "this proves that they arent based in God"
this doesnt hold water, this just highlights the fact they are based from God.
Life, as in the beginning came from God so any life that stems from that stems from God
Liberty is often limited by Govt but that doesnt mean that the basis for liberty is not God. Again your trying to point to situations where govt/man limits liberty and say see b/c we can take it away it means its not from God, this is ignorant and uses shitty logic.
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At what point do I get to give credit to myself for my ability to pursuit happiness?
Or, as I've said many times, atheism is simply man worshipping HIMSELF.
give yourself credit for acting on opportunities youve seen and capitalized on is fine in the context that those rights came from God.
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Read the bible, that will give a pretty good idea of where God stands.
A book written by man, right?
Look, I believe in a higher power, but everything we read about that higher power ws written by fallible men like us. Who stole candy from friends. Who jerked off in the shower. Who were jealous and normal and everything just like the rest of us.
If a govt takes away our rights, its fucked up - but it's only fucked up by a set of standards written by men. Ya follow?
By "god's law" - completely natural - big MFers would kill small MFers and take their womenfolk on a daily basis. There would be no inherent right to life, liberty, or anything else. Isn't God's actual law - the one we've had for 1 million years of humanity until only a few thousand years ago - pretty much darwinish? lol, survivlal of the fittest?
This whole "it's illegal to kill and rob others" is something man invented, champ.
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again you want to point out situations where ppl or govt have limited those rights and say "this proves that they arent based in God"
this doesnt hold water, this just highlights the fact they are based from God.
Life, as in the beginning came from God so any life that stems from that stems from God
Liberty is often limited by Govt but that doesnt mean that the basis for liberty is not God. Again your trying to point to situations where govt/man limits liberty and say see b/c we can take it away it means its not from God, this is ignorant and uses shitty logic.
doesn't mean that it comes from god either
why don't you prove there is God first before you try to prove such things and liberty and the ability to pursuit happiness come from god
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A book written by man, right?
Look, I believe in a higher power, but everything we read about that higher power ws written by fallible men like us. Who stole candy from friends. Who jerked off in the shower. Who were jealous and normal and everything just like the rest of us.
If a govt takes away our rights, its fucked up - but it's only fucked up by a set of standards written by men. Ya follow?
By "god's law" - completely natural - big MFers would kill small MFers and take their womenfolk on a daily basis. There would be no inherent right to life, liberty, or anything else. Isn't God's actual law - the one we've had for 1 million years of humanity until only a few thousand years ago - pretty much darwinish? lol, survivlal of the fittest?
This whole "it's illegal to kill and rob others" is something man invented, champ.
and the reason man "invented" it?
b/c we knew it was inherintly wrong cracker jack...
why is it inherintly wrong?
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doesn't mean that it comes from god either
why don't you prove there is God first before you try to prove such things and liberty and the ability to pursuit happiness come from god
I have plenty of proof God exists, is it proof enough for you...no but my sense is nothing short of God talking to you personally would not do it.
So now that you cant stand on the, "if govt can take it away it proves its from govt" leg were down to the proof of God argument?
why dont you prove God doesnt exist?
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and the reason man "invented" it?
b/c we knew it was inherintly wrong cracker jack...
why is it inherintly wrong?
how did we "know" it all of a sudden?
Is it just that those in charge realized they could have more money/food/sex/whatever by teaching religion and school to the masses - so they could be taxed?
I mean, human beings have been here one million years. It is only in the last 2000 or 3000 that we made murder illegal, for pete's sake.
God would allow anything to kill anything for any reason for 5 billion years of life, and one million years of people - then suddenly 2000 years ago, he CHANGES his plan?
Sorry, but every law, every right, every constraint outside of a free-for-all is MANMADE. period. Not even debatable.
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I have plenty of proof God exists, is it proof enough for you...no but my sense is nothing short of God talking to you personally would not do it.
So now that you cant stand on the, "if govt can take it away it proves its from govt" leg were down to the proof of God argument?
why dont you prove God doesnt exist?
excellent
what's your proof that God exists and please clarify which god you're talking about
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excellent
what's your proof that God exists and please clarify which god you're talking about
ours. the right one. the rest of them are wrong.
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ours. the right one. the rest of them are wrong.
So you want bush, Obama, newt, Reid, Palin, et al giving you rights?
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how did we "know" it all of a sudden?
Is it just that those in charge realized they could have more money/food/sex/whatever by teaching religion and school to the masses - so they could be taxed?
I mean, human beings have been here one million years. It is only in the last 2000 or 3000 that we made murder illegal, for pete's sake.
God would allow anything to kill anything for any reason for 5 billion years of life, and one million years of people - then suddenly 2000 years ago, he CHANGES his plan?
Sorry, but every law, every right, every constraint outside of a free-for-all is MANMADE. period. Not even debatable.
LOL first even if you subscribe to evolution man as in modern man hasnt been around for a million years it about 125k if I remember correctly.
Second b/c it is inherint, do you know what inherint means?
Humans have free will cracker jack, what they do with it is up to them.
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So you want bush, Obama, newt, Reid, Palin, et al giving you rights?
fuck no. I dont want ryan and romney giving me rights either. Romney signed an assault weapons ban, remember? Go fvck a duck on this one.
I'd love to have God giving me my rights. Do you have his cell number?
Sheesh, what are you even talking about "i WANT"? WTF is "want"? How do I want to paint our story? Doesn't matter, the rights will be the same no matter what. You can credit God, I can credit mankind organizing society for his own gain. Same thing dog.
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excellent
what's your proof that God exists and please clarify which god you're talking about
My proof is that I can see God in just about everything I see around me. I see God in the actions of my friends and family, nature even misguided ppl like 240.
but again my proof will never be good enough for you, like I said short of God speaking directly to you in an audible voice you have convinced yourself that God doesnt exist.
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LOL first even if you subscribe to evolution man as in modern man hasnt been around for a million years it about 125k if I remember correctly.
Second b/c it is inherint, do you know what inherint means?
Humans have free will cracker jack, what they do with it is up to them.
You can't prove its inherent lol... and you can't prove free will. Are we really taking the thread there haha. I dont belive in free will, dude. This entire universe, solar system, planet, rivers, volcanos - they all move on a path that with a big enough computer, could be predicted. Living things, they 'make choices' based upon environment, how they're built, and what they've learned.
But then again, i'm just telling you what i've been exposed to, given my own hard wiring and what i've been thru. You'll use your own upbringing, hard-wired CPU and set of experiences to "prove" me wrong using your own will, i gotcha.
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My proof is that I can see God in just about everything I see around me. I see God in the actions of my friends and family, nature even misguided ppl like 240.
but again my proof will never be good enough for you, like I said short of God speaking directly to you in an audible voice you have convinced yourself that God doesnt exist.
I believe in a God. But I dont think our little ass gray matter can comprehend what HE is. To even think he would give us the brain to understand Him is silly, if you think about it. The kind actions you see in those around you are interpreted by YOU as kindness because you had a good upbringing, you have a good brain, and you NEED to believe you exist for something other than filling shoes and taking a crap for the next 50 years.
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I would rather my rights come from a pet rock than other humans like ghettothugbama Clinton bush newt etc.
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You can't prove its inherent lol... and you can't prove free will. Are we really taking the thread there haha. I dont belive in free will, dude. This entire universe, solar system, planet, rivers, volcanos - they all move on a path that with a big enough computer, could be predicted. Living things, they 'make choices' based upon environment, how they're built, and what they've learned.
But then again, i'm just telling you what i've been exposed to, given my own hard wiring and what i've been thru. You'll use your own upbringing, hard-wired CPU and set of experiences to "prove" me wrong using your own will, i gotcha.
*FACE PALM
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I believe in a God. But I dont think our little ass gray matter can comprehend what HE is. To even think he would give us the brain to understand Him is silly, if you think about it. The kind actions you see in those around you are interpreted by YOU as kindness because you had a good upbringing, you have a good brain, and you NEED to believe you exist for something other than filling shoes and taking a crap for the next 50 years.
Well according to your post just above this a big enough computer could, I mean thats your grey matter right?
goodness gracious youre a waste of bandwidth...
Its not just in the good that God is visible 240
I dont need to believe 240, it does seem you need to define me and others to feel comfortable with our beliefs.
I believe b/c of what Ive seen, even if I had never read the bible I would still believe in a higher power.
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My proof is that I can see God in just about everything I see around me. I see God in the actions of my friends and family, nature even misguided ppl like 240.
but again my proof will never be good enough for you, like I said short of God speaking directly to you in an audible voice you have convinced yourself that God doesnt exist.
you're correct in thinking that your ability to "see" god in just about everything is not going to be proof enough for me
I'm kind of disappointed that's the best you can do, a completey vague and totally subjective judgement....and then from that you expect someone to conclude that the god you "see" has given me rights?
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you're correct in thinking that your ability to "see" god in just about everything is not going to be proof enough for me
I'm kind of disappointed that's the best you can do, a completey vague and totally subjective judgement....and then from that you expect someone to conclude that the god you "see" has given me rights?
Yet you are not disappointed in obamas horrible tenure in office. Lol!!!!
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you're correct in thinking that your ability to "see" god in just about everything is not going to be proof enough for me
I'm kind of disappointed that's the best you can do, a completey vague and totally subjective judgement....and then from that you expect someone to conclude that the god you "see" has given me rights?
not at all, I expect you as someone who has convinced themself that God doesnt exist to quickly dismiss any and all evidence I put forth for the existence of God.
Kudos for living up to that expectation....
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not at all, I expect you as someone who has convinced themself that God doesnt exist to quickly dismiss any and all evidence I put forth for the existence of God.
Kudos for living up to that expectation....
I have no proof that a "god" exists or doesn't exist
when have I ever said otherwise
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I have no proof that a "god" exists or doesn't exist
when have I ever said otherwise
I never said you had proof one way or the other...
but you do not believe in God, correct?
what is your reasoning for that?
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I never said you had proof one way or the other...
but you do not believe in God, correct?
what is your reasoning for that?
which God
Jesus's dad and his spooky friend?
Allah?
Shiva ?
I have no proof any of them exist or don't exist
haven't I already said that?
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which God
Jesus's dad and his spooky friend?
Allah?
Shiva ?
I have no proof any of them exist or don't exist
haven't I already said that?
Im not asking for proof, Im asking for your belief in whether or not God/Any god exists.
How hard of a question is this to answer for you?
it seems like you may have some internal conflict with your views seeing as this question is so difficult for you to answer.
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Im not asking for proof, Im asking for your belief in whether or not God/Any god exists.
How hard of a question is this to answer for you?
it seems like you may have some internal conflict with your views seeing as this question is so difficult for you to answer.
I believe that Shiva might be dancing on the dwarf of ignorance
but that's totally symbolic and not literal
how about you
I assume you're christian (correct me if I'm wrong)
is your god a symbol or an actual being ?
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Lol its a simple question
When you want a serious conversation let me know
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Lol its a simple question
When you want a serious conversation let me know
I agree
it's a very simple question
is your god a being or a symbol?
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1) "Something" created all us.
2) We cannot and will not ever understand it in this life.
3) God didn't say "You people in USA in 1783 are now granted life, liberty, pursuit of happiness". People said that.
These are facts. maybe someone on getbig just "feels" that the God from the Bible decided people inside our borders deserve something that people inside Iran's borders don't deserve. Kinda cold.
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1) "Something" created all us.
2) We cannot and will not ever understand it in this life.
3) God didn't say "You people in USA in 1783 are now granted life, liberty, pursuit of happiness". People said that.
These are facts. maybe someone on getbig just "feels" that the God from the Bible decided people inside our borders deserve something that people inside Iran's borders don't deserve. Kinda cold.
how is that a fact
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Read the preamble to the. Declaration of Independence.
It says "creator"
It doesn't say God... Could be your mom and dad... every person who came before you in your family tree.
I don't see it as a God thing what so ever.
If that's the case, then why didn't God give those rights to people in Syria... Iran... Russia... China... on and on.
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If that's the case, then why didn't God give those rights to people in Syria... Iran... Russia... China... on and on.
They seem to think God chose, 250 years ago, to make certain rights worthy of certain people inside certain borders. What the did founders say? White males, right? Pretty strange God would discriminate.
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Or, as I've said many times, atheism is simply man worshipping HIMSELF.
Why not stop worshipping and use our brain instead?
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It says "creator"
It doesn't say God... Could be your mom and dad... every person who came before you in your family tree.
I don't see it as a God thing what so ever.
If that's the case, then why didn't God give those rights to people in Syria... Iran... Russia... China... on and on.
He did , it's just that the people in those countries choose to live that way.
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My proof is that I can see God in just about everything I see around me. I see God in the actions of my friends and family, nature even misguided ppl like 240.
That is NOT proof. Or evidence. That is nothing more than subjective opinion and subconscious projection. You obviously know as much about what "proof" and "evidence" is our fake little lawyer on here does.
Its not just in the good that God is visible 240
Yeah, because god was really visible in that movie theater massacre wasn't he? God is really visible when a child is born with MS or some other life crippling/shorting condition.
"Goodness gracious" what kind of God allows that?
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They seem to think God chose, 250 years ago, to make certain rights worthy of certain people inside certain borders. What the did founders say? White males, right? Pretty strange God would discriminate.
Obviously "God" sure as didn't think blacks or women in the US were worthy of basic rights.
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Mother Nature?
if so, she's not amused.
its not nice to fool her.
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That is NOT proof. Or evidence. That is nothing more than subjective opinion and subconscious projection. You obviously know as much about what "proof" and "evidence" is our fake little lawyer on here does.
Yeah, because god was really visible in that movie theater massacre wasn't he? God is really visible when a child is born with MS or some other life crippling/shorting condition.
"Goodness gracious" what kind of God allows that?
Nice owning of the bible tumblers Lurker :)
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Nice owning of the bible tumblers Lurker :)
They actually surprise me at times with their nonsense that they try to pass off as "fact" and "proof". ::) When challenged, the only resort they seem to have as a fall back is claiming that since you can't prove otherwise, it must be true. ::) ::)
One retard on here, despite claiming to read the Bible and use it for his day to day guidance says that it was Jesus who created Earth and the universe. ::) And time travel too apparently since he had to go back before his birth to do so.
Another one claims that babies born with MS or mental/physical impairments are due to the "sins of the parents". Cancer, Torquettes, and the like isn't due to a mutation of cells or other biological means that has be documented and proven by science, but rather because of "living in sin".
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They actually surprise me at times with their nonsense that they try to pass off as "fact" and "proof". ::) When challenged, the only resort they seem to have as a fall back is claiming that since you can't prove otherwise, it must be true. ::) ::)
One retard on here, despite claiming to read the Bible and use it for his day to day guidance says that it was Jesus who created Earth and the universe. ::) And time travel too apparently since he had to go back before his birth to do so.
Another one claims that babies born with MS or mental/physical impairments are due to the "sins of the parents". Cancer, Torquettes, and the like isn't due to a mutation of cells or other biological means that has be documented and proven by science, but rather because of "living in sin".
Haha priceless.
I guess they dont get out much and talk with people who can challenge their ideas. No wonder they hate the theory of evolution. Learning and improving are not what these guys are about.
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Is it any wonder there is a decline in religion nowdays?
To be honest though, the only person on here I have found that can talk religion in an intelligent and open minded way that doesn't make themselves look like a full blown tard is Butterbean. Sharp one there. Always pleasant to chat with.
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Obviously "God" sure as didn't think blacks or women in the US were worthy of basic rights.
tony, how do you describe this? Why are some rights not given to certain groups? God-given to white males within our borders, from 1780 to present.
God is being super selective here?
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A book written by man, right?
Look, I believe in a higher power, but everything we read about that higher power ws written by fallible men like us. Who stole candy from friends. Who jerked off in the shower. Who were jealous and normal and everything just like the rest of us.
If a govt takes away our rights, its fucked up - but it's only fucked up by a set of standards written by men. Ya follow?
By "god's law" - completely natural - big MFers would kill small MFers and take their womenfolk on a daily basis. There would be no inherent right to life, liberty, or anything else. Isn't God's actual law - the one we've had for 1 million years of humanity until only a few thousand years ago - pretty much darwinish? lol, survivlal of the fittest?
This whole "it's illegal to kill and rob others" is something man invented, champ.
Guess you don 't understand the difference between the old and new testament.
But hey I'm all for survival of the fittest, the leaches of society would be eliminated one way or another
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Guess you don 't understand the difference between the old and new testament.
But hey I'm all for survival of the fittest, the leaches of society would be eliminated one way or another
it's a book written by men. I went to catholic school from grade 1 thru 10. I had religion class every day. I was an altar boy.
I guess I shake my head at men believing they are something separate from animals. When a smake eats a mouse, that's just nature. When a man kills a man breaking in his house, that's fine. When a man shoots a fleeing man in war, it's cool.
But if you shoot a guy for cheating at a card game, you're going to hell. Written by men, for men. period.
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Im not asking for proof, Im asking for your belief in whether or not God/Any god exists.
How hard of a question is this to answer for you?
it seems like you may have some internal conflict with your views seeing as this question is so difficult for you to answer.
Why would he believe in something there is no evidence for?
Your question doesn't make a lot of sense.
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Why not stop worshipping and use our brain instead?
And how exactly does worship require that one not use his brain again?
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I never said you had proof one way or the other...
but you do not believe in God, correct?
what is your reasoning for that?
you should ask better questions
when you say god should I assume you mean Allah or a Christian God or any of the various Hindu God or how about a God we haven't even heard yet.
Here's a better question
Do you believe in Allah ?
My answer would be no
do you believe the historical character we refer to as Jesus:
A: actually exisited
B: Was/Is a God
My answers would be
A: maybe
B: highly unlikely - i.e. almost certainly no
does that make me an atheist
I would say no it does not although I expect that both muslims and christians would say it does
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How come God-Given rights aren't given to ppl in other countries, animals, and women/minorities unti recently?
And in 200 years, will "god-given" be defined differently than it is today? you betcha ;)
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How come God-Given rights aren't given to ppl in other countries, animals, and women/minorities unti recently?
And in 200 years, will "god-given" be defined differently than it is today? you betcha ;)
Ryan's statement is just a dog whistle to certain people
With 200+ years of hindsight it's obvious to everyone that even when this country was founded only a certain select group of elites enjoyed the rights allegedly endowed by our "creator"
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Ryan's statement is just a dog whistle to certain people
With 200+ years of hindsight it's obvious to everyone that even when this country was founded only a certain select group of elites enjoyed the rights allegedly endowed by our "creator"
LOL - and as a nation collectively those shortcomings were fixed via a civil war and much civil action.
Of course you like your communist sock puppet messiah obama think this country is fatally flawed so its no surprise you hate what Ryan said.
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LOL - and as a nation collectively those shortcomings were fixed via a civil war and much civil action.
Of course you like your communist sock puppet messiah obama think this country is fatally flawed so its no surprise you hate what Ryan said.
33,
Aren't those who pay higher tax rates also subjected to being DENIED their GOD GIVEN RIGHTS? Why should Joe Sixpack making $75k a year hage to pay 30% in taxes, when Mitt Romney admits he pays 14%? Or some poor folks pay zero %?
Isn't anything but a flat tax, an affront to God?
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LOL - and as a nation collectively those shortcomings were fixed via a civil war and much civil action.
Of course you like your communist sock puppet messiah obama think this country is fatally flawed so its no surprise you hate what Ryan said.
yeah - those "fixes" came with lot's of bloodshed and millions of people who had the "fix" forced upon them
If a creator really endowed us with "rights" such as life then why not also endow us with healthcare to protect life or maybe we as a nation to "fix" that too. I'm sure you'd have no problem with that since you've freely acknowledged that flaws in the original plan needed to be fixed and at the federal level and even at the barrel of a gun of the federal governmnet
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yeah - those "fixes" came with lot's of bloodshed and millions of people who had the "fix" forced upon them
If a creator really endowed us with "rights" such as life then why not also endow us with healthcare to protect life or maybe we as a nation to "fix" that too. I'm sure you'd have no problem with that since you've freely acknowledged that flaws in the original plan needed to be fixed and at the federal level and even at the barrel of a gun of the federal governmnet
Ha ha ha ha ha!!!!! Do you understand what "negative liberties" means?
Even your gay corrupt savior knows the difference.
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If you are a female born in Iran, hey, guess what - those right are certainly "alienable". You dont get them.
No, they are born with these inalienable rights, but they're being deprived by government. Same old same old.
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Can anyone tell me what fatal flaw obama is taking about in this clip?
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No, they are born with these inalienable rights, but they're being deprived by government. Same old same old.
So these rights were "alienable" for the last 100k years. It has only been the last 250 years that suddenly it changed. For some.
I dunno, I think in 200 years, they'll look back at 2012 and say "how did the people allow X,Y, and Z... those rights are unalienable!"
Our perception is that they are - but for the majory of the world for the majority of the time, they HAVE been taken away.
it's a nice fairy tale for people who don't buy into santa/easter bunny, but we live by the law of the land - written by man. That's the bottom line.
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No, they are born with these inalienable rights, but they're being deprived by government. Same old same old.
you're certainly free to believe
I don't believe it at all and certainly see no evidence that it's true
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Why would he believe in something there is no evidence for?
Your question doesn't make a lot of sense.
and his evidence that God doesnt exist?
remember not proving the null does not prove the alternative...its called science....
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It says "creator"
It doesn't say God... Could be your mom and dad... every person who came before you in your family tree.
I don't see it as a God thing what so ever.
If that's the case, then why didn't God give those rights to people in Syria... Iran... Russia... China... on and on.
simply b/c humans violate those rights doesnt mean they dont stem from God.
I dont see how you guys keep confusing this concept.
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For those who think that our rights stem from govt.
Do you think that the govt has the right to euthanize its citizens at will?
and that there isnt anything wrong with that after all your rights stem from the govt right?
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and his evidence that God doesnt exist?
remember not proving the null does not prove the alternative...its called science....
This is not an argument here. If this is the only thing you can got, then you don't have shit. This is just a childish tactic for people who can't come up with anything else.
God is a unicorn on roller skates. Don't believe me? Then prove he isn't. ::)
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For those who think that our rights stem from govt.
Do you think that the govt has the right to euthanize its citizens at will?
and that there isnt anything wrong with that after all your rights stem from the govt right?
Why didn't God stop Stalin or Hitler, tony?
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Why didn't God stop Stalin or Hitler, tony?
I thought you went to catholic school etc etc etc, you should know the answer to that question
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I thought you went to catholic school etc etc etc, you should know the answer to that question
He also says he has an MBA but doesnt know the first thing about economics. He seems to have went backwards as he got older.
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I thought you went to catholic school etc etc etc, you should know the answer to that question
Grade 1-10, catholic schools. Church from age 1 thru high school, kinda stopped going in 20s. I pray and I live to give, but there are a lot of Qs, and I see a lot of ways man uses religion/fear of God to manipulate masses to do what they want.
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He also says he has an MBA but doesnt know the first thing about economics. He seems to have went backwards as he got older.
A piece of paper with some combination of letters on it doesn't make you smart
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Grade 1-10, catholic schools. Church from age 1 thru high school, kinda stopped going in 20s. I pray and I live to give, but there are a lot of Qs, and I see a lot of ways man uses religion/fear of God to manipulate masses to do what they want.
And if the masses are stupid enough to believe what some politician say with out thinking for themselves, well then they get what they deserve.
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simply b/c humans violate those rights doesnt mean they dont stem from God.
I dont see how you guys keep confusing this concept.
What do you mean "you guys"?
I don't think government gives me my rights... I believe that we the people give us our rights... It's not about government. It's about citizens.
Look at the history of all people who have fought for their freedom... Neither God, nor government had anything to do with it.
It was PEOPLE.
PEOPLE as a society give me my freedom and I in turn give them theirs.
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What do you mean "you guys"?
I don't think government gives me my rights... I believe that we the people give us our rights... It's not about government. It's about citizens.
Look at the history of all people who have fought for their freedom... Neither God, nor government had anything to do with it.
It was PEOPLE.
PEOPLE as a society give me my freedom and I in turn give them theirs.
YES!!!!!!!
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What do you mean "you guys"?
I don't think government gives me my rights... I believe that we the people give us our rights... It's not about government. It's about citizens.
Look at the history of all people who have fought for their freedom... Neither God, nor government had anything to do with it.
It was PEOPLE.
PEOPLE as a society give me my freedom and I in turn give them theirs.
I agree, we give ourselves these "inalienable rights". I was arguing this with 240 in another thread (who was arguing that government gives people their rights), people have fought for these ideals throughout history. In our time, they have become labeled "inalienable rights".