“Our rights come from nature and God, not from government"

[Straw Man]

That's something Paul Ryan said yesterday

“Our rights come from nature and God, not from government. That’s who we are. That’s how we built this country. That’s who we are. That’s what made us great. That’s our founding. We promise equal opportunity, not equal outcomes.”

Do statements like this appeal to most Americans?  I know this is a popular idea with libertarians and christians but I wonder if statements like this turn off more voters than it attracts

Do black people agree with that or women or disabled people or gays?  How about people of all races who just aren't that religious or happened to have noticed that our history of access to equal rights in this country had to be fought for and is an ongoing battle.    Maybe when this country was founded God just didn't want black people to have the right to be free or for woman to have the right to vote.   I guess it's possible God gradually changed his position on those ideas and that's why we no longer have slavery and woman have the right to vote.   I guess that's possible.

Ryan and the Repubs are in full honeymoon mode right now but as he starts to get 24/7 media attention it will be interesting to see if the cracks start to appear in the facade like they did with all the other Repubs.   I don't expect him to be a walking and talking disaster like Palin but who knows what will happen.   This guy really hasn't had that much national attention, at least not in anything more than a soundbite.

[240 is Back]

ryan will shift to speaking to a MODERATE audience soon.   That's just reminding the right-wing that he still loves them.

[Straw Man]

ryan will shift to speaking to a MODERATE audience soon.   That's just reminding the right-wing that he still loves them.

I don't think he will

I think he's on the ticket to shore up the Republican base who don't really like Romney

[240 is Back]

I don't think he will

I think he's on the ticket to shore up the Republican base who don't really like Romney

good point... but Romney is going to need his baby face to win soccer moms.  He can't be full venom liek Palin was.  A lot of people who thought she was inspirational or incredible were turned off by "palling with terrorists" and other venom she spat.  She was a trashy rude shrew by the end of the race - just pure venom.  Ryan is smart enough to do it with dignity.

[Straw Man]

good point... but Romney is going to need his baby face to win soccer moms.  He can't be full venom liek Palin was.  A lot of people who thought she was inspirational or incredible were turned off by "palling with terrorists" and other venom she spat.  She was a trashy rude shrew by the end of the race - just pure venom.  Ryan is smart enough to do it with dignity.

IMO - Ryan will be the right wing attack dog and Romney will try to be the more mature type and appeal to the center.   I do think Ryan is a heck of a lot smarter than Palin and won't need to write notes on his hand and wink to the camera.  I also don't think it will be too long before Ryan says something kooky and controversial.    He has a pretty radical agenda and from what little I know about him I don't see him trying to tone down his beliefs of rhetoric

[240 is Back]

IMO - Ryan will be the right wing attack dog and Romney will try to be the more mature type and appeal to the center.   I do think Ryan is a heck of a lot smarter than Palin and won't need to write notes on his hand and wink to the camera.  I also don't think it will be too long before Ryan says something kooky and controversial.    He has a pretty radical agenda and from what little I know about him I don't see him trying to tone down his beliefs of rhetoric

looking back... wow, the 2012 VP pick was hilarious.  Winking, I mean really?  Winking?

I'm a little disappointed Romney chose a prepared professional - a train wreck would have been way more fun to watch.

[Straw Man]

looking back... wow, the 2012 VP pick was hilarious.  Winking, I mean really?  Winking?

I'm a little disappointed Romney chose a prepared professional - a train wreck would have been way more fun to watch.

you never know

Ryan could turn out to be a train wreck

who thought Palin was going to be such a disaster on the 2nd day after we knew she was the pick

[Kazan]

If you actually believe that our rights come from the government, then you should be ready for them to be taken away at any time. If you believe they are from nature and what ever God you believe in, then the government can't take them away.

[240 is Back]

who thought Palin was going to be such a disaster on the 2nd day after we knew she was the pick

I did.  I dissected her first speech - her offensive finger pointing and her obvious BS about how ready she was for this job.

Paul Ryan isn't trying to sell himself - because worthy candidates dont need to. The moment someone tries to convince you how ready they are - you know they are not.

Ryan has spend 14 years writing national law, he's a policy wonk, and he's been very conservative all the while.  He's a millionaire who has his shit together.

Palin?  She stole building materials from an arena her town didn't need, to build her own home.  Remember?

She was a royal fck up, a grifter who used her looks to dupe a desperate Mccain.  An unvetted hack. Repubs spend 10 weeks trying to convince swing voters she was ready.  They already KNOW Ryan is ready, because he steps past that and delivers solutions.

[Soul Crusher]

Straw - he dead. Right - we are endowed by our creator w certain inalienable. Rights.


I know you are a socialist and a communist who loves the idea of the govt ordering everyone around , but most people disagree w you.

That's something Paul Ryan said yesterday

“Our rights come from nature and God, not from government. That’s who we are. That’s how we built this country. That’s who we are. That’s what made us great. That’s our founding. We promise equal opportunity, not equal outcomes.”

Do statements like this appeal to most Americans?  I know this is a popular idea with libertarians and christians but I wonder if statements like this turn off more voters than it attracts

Do black people agree with that or women or disabled people or gays?  How about people of all races who just aren't that religious or happened to have noticed that our history of access to equal rights in this country had to be fought for and is an ongoing battle.    Maybe when this country was founded God just didn't want black people to have the right to be free or for woman to have the right to vote.   I guess it's possible God gradually changed his position on those ideas and that's why we no longer have slavery and woman have the right to vote.   I guess that's possible.

Ryan and the Repubs are in full honeymoon mode right now but as he starts to get 24/7 media attention it will be interesting to see if the cracks start to appear in the facade like they did with all the other Repubs.   I don't expect him to be a walking and talking disaster like Palin but who knows what will happen.   This guy really hasn't had that much national attention, at least not in anything more than a soundbite.

[240 is Back]

Straw - he dead. Right - we are endowed by our creator w certain inalienable. Rights.
I know you are a socialist and a communist who loves the idea of the govt ordering everyone around , but most people disagree w you.

yet is it so often this evil govt that USES God to achieve their political goals.  Some people are just created gay, plain and simple.  Any politicial shitting on that is shittong on something created by God.

i heard some batshit lady on fox radio last night, saying she could never vote for an athiest, cause without that belief in God, he'd have no respect for our rights.  She's rather elect a lib who poses with his bible, than a man of science who is an athiest but would rule by the constitution.  Un-freakin-real.

[B_B_C]

“Our rights come from nature and God, not from government.  

Now why didnt that work for the natives when Coumbus & Co arrived ?

[Kazan]

yet is it so often this evil govt that USES God to achieve their political goals.  Some people are just created gay, plain and simple.  Any politicial shitting on that is shittong on something created by God.

i heard some batshit lady on fox radio last night, saying she could never vote for an athiest, cause without that belief in God, he'd have no respect for our rights.  She's rather elect a lib who poses with his bible, than a man of science who is an athiest but would rule by the constitution.  Un-freakin-real.

Irrelevant, his statement is that our rights came from nature/god.

Why is she batshit crazy? With no belief in a power higher than yourself, what is there to answer to? Why do you think communist are so anti-religion? There can be no power above the government

[MCWAY]

Irrelevant, his statement is that our rights came from nature/god.

Why is she batshit crazy? With no belief in a power higher than yourself, what is there to answer to? Why do you think communist are so anti-religion? There can be no power above the government

Or, as I've said many times, atheism is simply man worshipping HIMSELF.

[Soul Crusher]

Or, as I've said many times, atheism is simply man worshipping HIMSELF.

Leftist fanatics worship these politicians as if they were gods.   Why else do you see idiots like straw and 180 begging everyone to give them more power to run everyone's lives? 

[Straw Man]

If you actually believe that our rights come from the government, then you should be ready for them to be taken away at any time. If you believe they are from nature and what ever God you believe in, then the government can't take them away.

So when women didn't have the right to vote in this country all they neede to do was show up at the polls and say Jesus, Allah or Quetzalcoatl had granted her the right to vote.  How about convicted felons.   Can't they just assert that Shiva says rhey have the right to vote?

[Soul Crusher]

So when women didn't have the right to vote in this country all they neede to do was show up at the polls and say Jesus, Allah or Quetzalcoatl had granted her the right to vote.  How about convicted felons.   Can't they just assert that Shiva says rhey have the right to vote?

Just admit you hate the constituin and declaration of independence.   You leftists and communists always dabble around the issue, but just fucking admit it already.   You want the govt to run your life , every aspect of it.

[Straw Man]

Leftist fanatics worship these politicians as if they were gods.   Why else do you see idiots like straw and 180 begging everyone to give them more power to run everyone's lives? 

Strange perspective given that you're the only one on this board that creates adoration threads for whichever politician you have a crush on at the moment

[240 is Back]

it sfunny to me that a person would elect a person who will work their entire career to limit freedoms and grow govt (the lib) because the lib poses with a bible.

You could have an athiest who just wants to see proof of God before signging up - and even though they will fix deficit and return the US to a small Govt success, can't vote for him.  Just funny to me.

[MCWAY]

it sfunny to me that a person would elect a person who will work their entire career to limit freedoms and grow govt (the lib) because the lib poses with a bible.

You could have an athiest who just wants to see proof of God before signging up - and even though they will fix deficit and return the US to a small Govt success, can't vote for him.  Just funny to me.

We don't have to worry about that anyway. There may be fiscal conservatives who aren't social conservatives. But, I've yet to see any social conservatives who aren't also fiscal ones. So, there is no "either/or" scenario if you pick a social conservative. Hence, you have a guy like Paul Ryan.

[Soul Crusher]

We don't have to worry about that anyway. There may be fiscal conservatives who aren't social conservatives. But, I've yet to see any social conservatives who aren't also fiscal ones. So, there is no "either/or" scenario if you pick a social conservative. Hence, you have a guy like Paul Ryan.

Question for 180 and straw - where do our rights come from?   

[tu_holmes]

Straw - he dead. Right - we are endowed by our creator w certain inalienable. Rights.


I know you are a socialist and a communist who loves the idea of the govt ordering everyone around , but most people disagree w you.

I thought we were endowed by our guns with certain rights?

I know the phrase "god given rights" is popular, but let's be clear... Our rights come from people. People with amazing ideals and the fortitude to fight for those beliefs.

God didn't give anyone shit.

People fought for them. People gave us those rights.

Not government and not God.

Also, Ryan isn't a bad dude. I hate his tax plan.

According to reports, under the Ryan plan, the year that we know about Romneys taxes, under the Ryan plan, would have had Romney paying a mere .089 percent in taxes for the year.

Seems a bit fucked up.

If its true that he wants to shift the tax burden to the middle class, then I take a huge issue with that.

[240 is Back]

Question for 180 and straw - where do our rights come from?  

The constitution, a set of beliefs agreed upon by people who lived here before us.

I believe in a higher power, but to cite Him as the source of our rights?  Link to proof?  lol... people on the other side of the world can cite their god as proof women are both WITHOUT inalienable rights, can't they?  

my definition - our rights come from forefathers - is technically acccurate.  Yours is romantic and beautiful but not provable.  HTH.

[Soul Crusher]

Read the preamble to the. Declaration of Independence.

I thought we were endowed by our guns with certain rights?

I know the phrase "god given rights" is popular, but let's be clear... Our rights come from people. People with amazing ideals and the fortitude to fight for those beliefs.

God didn't give anyone shit.

People fought for them. People gave us those rights.

Not government and not God.

Also, Ryan isn't a bad dude. I hate his tax plan.

According to reports, under the Ryan plan, the year that we know about Romneys taxes, under the Ryan plan, would have had Romney paying a mere .089 percent in taxes for the year.

Seems a bit fucked up.

If its true that he wants to shift the tax burden to the middle class, then I take a huge issue with that.

[240 is Back]

Read the preamble to the. Declaration of Independence.*

*Written by men with their own agenda.  A noble one, but a human agenda nonetheless. 

We have the rights of the LAND, the rights of this country, with borders defined by men, by rules defined by men.  If 33 was born a woman in iran, he couldn't cite his god as NOT giving him/her inalienable right - he would blame the dicks in charge for not letting him vote.

So it's credit to God when convenient, but oppression by men when the rights aren't there?