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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: dj181 on September 07, 2012, 02:56:05 PM

Title: found an interesting quote by Mentzer regarding his training of Sharon Bruneau
Post by: dj181 on September 07, 2012, 02:56:05 PM
i find this hard to believe, but who knows, maybe it's true...

“A few years ago I started training champion bodybuilder Sharon Bruneau. After her first week of three workouts, she told me she wanted to stop training for a while because she’d already seen an increase in size. She was worried she’d be too big for the Ms. Olympia. After three weeks of no training, I put Sharon through another week of three workouts. Curiously enough, she was stronger on every set of every exercise in that second series of three workouts. That meant she’d succeeded in stimulating an increase during the first series of workouts and that her body had not only produced but also maintained the increase—for three weeks. If the body does in fact decompensate after 96 hours, she would have been weaker, but she was considerably stronger after three weeks of absolutely no weight training."

Title: Re: found an interesting quote by Mentzer regarding his training of Sharon Bruneau
Post by: bigmikecox on September 07, 2012, 02:57:51 PM
He was a little off. That HIT training works, but it burns you out FAST!!!  I try to train like that once a week. It takes a LOT, to do 1-2 sets until failure (I do 2 sets)
Title: Re: found an interesting quote by Mentzer regarding his training of Sharon Bruneau
Post by: dr.chimps on September 07, 2012, 02:58:52 PM
Drug addicts massaging drug addicts. Retard3
Title: Re: found an interesting quote by Mentzer regarding his training of Sharon Bruneau
Post by: flipper5470 on September 07, 2012, 02:59:38 PM
Maybe she didn't want to train with Mentzer and trained elsewhere for three weeks only to be convinced to return for another try at it...in other words, how does mentzer know what she did for those three weeks?
Title: Re: found an interesting quote by Mentzer regarding his training of Sharon Bruneau
Post by: BB on September 07, 2012, 03:11:36 PM
Mentzer was known to lie about his work outs, and was high as a kite through most of the 80's, including running around LA naked claiming Arnold sent a hit squad after him......
Title: Re: found an interesting quote by Mentzer regarding his training of Sharon Bruneau
Post by: cephissus on September 07, 2012, 03:19:13 PM
He was a little off. That HIT training works, but it burns you out FAST!!!  I try to train like that once a week. It takes a LOT, to do 1-2 sets until failure (I do 2 sets)

a lot to do 1-2 sets to failure???  what do you normally do?
Title: Re: found an interesting quote by Mentzer regarding his training of Sharon Bruneau
Post by: Moen on September 07, 2012, 03:24:05 PM
He was a little off. That HIT training works, but it burns you out FAST!!!  I try to train like that once a week. It takes a LOT, to do 1-2 sets until failure (I do 2 sets)

2 sets to failure, once a week? No way is that even humanly possible. You would die of massive CNS failure before the second set was completed.
Title: Re: found an interesting quote by Mentzer regarding his training of Sharon Bruneau
Post by: MB on September 07, 2012, 04:25:15 PM
Most anyone could train 3 times in a week, take 3 weeks off, then come back and repeat the workout week and be "stronger".  The problem is trying to increase strength over the coarse of several months and years.  It becomes an impossible task for an advanced lifter to keep upping the intensity. 
Title: Re: found an interesting quote by Mentzer regarding his training of Sharon Bruneau
Post by: booty on September 07, 2012, 04:28:27 PM
Yeah it sounds like Sharon didn't want to train with Mentzer and was trying to get rid of him.
Title: Re: found an interesting quote by Mentzer regarding his training of Sharon Bruneau
Post by: BikiniSlut on September 07, 2012, 04:34:00 PM
How could he not even suspect it was drugs??? ???
Title: Re: found an interesting quote by Mentzer regarding his training of Sharon Bruneau
Post by: Mr Nobody on September 07, 2012, 05:15:33 PM
1-2 sets to failure works per exercise maybe 2 exercises per bodypart its brutal though. Most people arent willing to do this hence they do volume training which is ok if you got the genes but if you dont have the genes it wont work. Just think if Woody Allen did volume training he would get nowhere his best bet is HIT, although he dont have the genes still the best for him. Genes rule or their would be 100 Mr O's.
Title: Re: found an interesting quote by Mentzer regarding his training of Sharon Bruneau
Post by: Viking11 on September 07, 2012, 08:02:21 PM
Yeah it sounds like Sharon didn't want to train with Mentzer and was trying to get rid of him.
Then why did she return for more?
Title: Re: found an interesting quote by Mentzer regarding his training of Sharon Bruneau
Post by: BikiniSlut on September 07, 2012, 08:09:11 PM
i find this hard to believe, but who knows, maybe it's true...

“A few years ago I started training champion bodybuilder Sharon Bruneau. After her first week of three workouts, she told me she wanted to stop training for a while because she’d already seen an increase in size. She was worried she’d be too big for the Ms. Olympia. After three weeks of no training, I put Sharon through another week of three workouts. Curiously enough, she was stronger on every set of every exercise in that second series of three workouts. That meant she’d succeeded in stimulating an increase during the first series of workouts and that her body had not only produced but also maintained the increase—for three weeks. If the body does in fact decompensate after 96 hours, she would have been weaker, but she was considerably stronger after three weeks of absolutely no weight training."

Can anyone elaborate on this? Is this true?

Title: Re: found an interesting quote by Mentzer regarding his training of Sharon Bruneau
Post by: Slik on September 07, 2012, 08:17:22 PM
Tired of gurus acting like this shit is rocket science and that they each have discovered the holy grail of muscle attainment. Mentzer was weird. I saw him enuff at Venice in the nineties after he really lost his mind to know that although some of theories are sound the guy was a complete whack job. And you can throw this latest mentzer double blind study out the window cuz Sharon was juiced to the gills at the time anyway.
She was hot tho but attention whore was my impression doing dumbbell lunges up n down the godam gym all the time.
Title: Re: found an interesting quote by Mentzer regarding his training of Sharon Bruneau
Post by: Schmoff on September 07, 2012, 08:17:52 PM
Drug addicts massaging drug addicts. Retard3

 :D
Title: Re: found an interesting quote by Mentzer regarding his training of Sharon Bruneau
Post by: BikiniSlut on September 07, 2012, 08:21:47 PM
So if after 96 hours the body starts to lose muscle mass then one week between body parts is not enough?
Title: Re: found an interesting quote by Mentzer regarding his training of Sharon Bruneau
Post by: Jadeveon Clowney on September 07, 2012, 08:22:24 PM

She was hot tho but attention whore was my impression doing dumbbell lunges up n down the godam gym all the time.

you = lustful cockmonster

"omg, I wish this hot chick would go away instead of parading her ass up and down for my viewing pleasure"
Title: Re: found an interesting quote by Mentzer regarding his training of Sharon Bruneau
Post by: jwb on September 07, 2012, 10:29:57 PM
I knew someone who, because of work and family etc, could only train once a week.

Week one he did chest, shoulders, triceps

Week two was legs

Week three was back, biceps

He did high volume and pretty high intensity (many sets to failure). Workouts were two hours or so.

Made better progress than most of the gym.
Title: Re: found an interesting quote by Mentzer regarding his training of Sharon Bruneau
Post by: Master Blaster on September 07, 2012, 10:41:01 PM
So if after 96 hours the body starts to lose muscle mass then one week between body parts is not enough?

lets not mix up intermittent muscle volume fluctuations with strength
Title: Re: found an interesting quote by Mentzer regarding his training of Sharon Bruneau
Post by: The True Adonis on September 07, 2012, 10:51:48 PM
Never understood the "only 2 sets to failure 2 exercises is soooo difficult" crowd.

I usually do 16-24 sets per bodypart every set to failure sometimes never going over 6 reps and never had a problem completing a workout for years.

Whats the deal?
Title: Re: found an interesting quote by Mentzer regarding his training of Sharon Bruneau
Post by: andreisdaman on September 07, 2012, 11:00:10 PM
Mentzer was known to lie about his work outs, and was high as a kite through most of the 80's, including running around LA naked claiming Arnold sent a hit squad after him......

are you serious???
Title: Re: found an interesting quote by Mentzer regarding his training of Sharon Bruneau
Post by: #1 Klaus fan on September 08, 2012, 01:22:30 AM
People, who are inherently all lazy, believe more easily in a system that is not time or energy consuming.
Title: Re: found an interesting quote by Mentzer regarding his training of Sharon Bruneau
Post by: PJim on September 08, 2012, 01:59:02 AM
i find this hard to believe, but who knows, maybe it's true...

“A few years ago I started training champion bodybuilder Sharon Bruneau. After her first week of three workouts, she told me she wanted to stop training for a while because she’d already seen an increase in size. She was worried she’d be too big for the Ms. Olympia. After three weeks of no training, I put Sharon through another week of three workouts. Curiously enough, she was stronger on every set of every exercise in that second series of three workouts. That meant she’d succeeded in stimulating an increase during the first series of workouts and that her body had not only produced but also maintained the increase—for three weeks. If the body does in fact decompensate after 96 hours, she would have been weaker, but she was considerably stronger after three weeks of absolutely no weight training."



I've told you on numerous occasions it's possible. I know it's anecdotal, but I've rested for 3-4 weeks before and got considerably stronger. I haven't trained more frequently than once a week in 4 years...
Title: Re: found an interesting quote by Mentzer regarding his training of Sharon Bruneau
Post by: cephissus on September 08, 2012, 02:04:31 AM
Never understood the "only 2 sets to failure 2 exercises is soooo difficult" crowd.

I usually do 16-24 sets per bodypart every set to failure sometimes never going over 6 reps and never had a problem completing a workout for years.

Whats the deal?

x2 except the "never had a problem" part... like wtf, 3-5 sets to failure is considered a "hard workout" for some people???
Title: Re: found an interesting quote by Mentzer regarding his training of Sharon Bruneau
Post by: dj181 on September 08, 2012, 02:17:19 AM
I've told you on numerous occasions it's possible. I know it's anecdotal, but I've rested for 3-4 weeks before and got considerably stronger. I haven't trained more frequently than once a week in 4 years...

ok man, this could be so, and i'm not saying that it ain't

but i believe training just once a week could/would only work for fellas who are beastly strong ie. squat and dead with 400 pounds for reps, and bench with 300 pounds for reps

IMO, there is certainly over-training, but there is under-training as well, and both are hallmarked by a lack of steady progress

Mentzer's old training style, when he was competing was more "ideal" again IMO, as he training each muscle twice a week on a 2-way split training 4 days per week
Title: Re: found an interesting quote by Mentzer regarding his training of Sharon Bruneau
Post by: PJim on September 08, 2012, 02:20:26 AM
x2 except the "never had a problem" part... like wtf, 3-5 sets to failure is considered a "hard workout" for some people???

It depends how you define "hard". I would say my workouts are intense, but I wouldn't ask you to take my word for it, I'd ask you to train with me, but that's obviously not very likely. The key to training HIT style is to make sure you have a good training partner or two. You won't go to true failure otherwise because you can't fail the static and negative portions of the movement. It is important that your training partner/s allow you to fail your positive and then recognize where your static strength lies, and then allow them to keep lifting the weight up to the next greatest point in static strength, the whole time you will be failing the negative also until the point that you cannot resist in the negative or static at all and the weight should just flop completely down as if you were never even gripping the bar/pressing your feet etc.  THAT is very hard, especially on compound movements straight after isolation movements in the same manner and I have trained with probably 40 plus people in that manner i.e.work colleagues, fellow students, friends and family, intrigued gym-goers. Again, I wouldn't expect you to take my account on face value.
Title: Re: found an interesting quote by Mentzer regarding his training of Sharon Bruneau
Post by: PJim on September 08, 2012, 02:32:19 AM
ok man, this could be so, and i'm not saying that it ain't

but i believe training just once a week could/would only work for fellas who are beastly strong ie. squat and dead with 400 pounds for reps, and bench with 300 pounds for reps

IMO, there is certainly over-training, but there is under-training as well, and both are hallmarked by a lack of steady progress

Mentzer's old training style, when he was competing was more "ideal" again IMO, as he training each muscle twice a week on a 2-way split training 4 days per week


My training has been tailored over the years to fit steady progress based on reading and following Mentzer/Yates/Jones and a few other proponents of HIT. I take the fundamentals of HIT and try and adapt it to keep gains consistent by tweaking the variables such as frequency etc and recording everything I do. Like I said, it helps that I have numerous training partners, we usually train in at least a trio so everything can be compared as nerdy as that sounds. To be honest with you, I have been training like this for coming on 7 years now and I have pretty much reached my peak naturally. I'm getting older, my hormones are going to start declining, my recovery rate is not going to be what it was, it's not realistic to keep putting pound upon pound of muscle on an already built frame, there is a finite amount of muscle you will put on naturally and even aided by PEDs.

If I PM you I would outline a routine that you could adapt based on recorded workouts, but remembering to only change certain variables. But, if Mentzer was right about you being, "like an unbridled horse" lol, we may never get to that.
Title: Re: found an interesting quote by Mentzer regarding his training of Sharon Bruneau
Post by: Figo on September 08, 2012, 02:34:08 AM
“A few years ago I started training champion bodybuilder Sharon Bruneau. After her first week of three workouts, she told me she wanted to stop training for a while because she’d already seen an increase in size. She was worried she’d be too big for the Ms. Olympia. After three weeks of no training, I put Sharon through another week of three workouts. Curiously enough, she was stronger on every set of every exercise in that second series of three workouts. That meant she’d succeeded in stimulating an increase during the first series of workouts and that her body had not only produced but also maintained the increase—for three weeks. If the body does in fact decompensate after 96 hours, she would have been weaker, but she was considerably stronger after three weeks of absolutely no weight training."
Just like everyone else, Mentzer was selling something, Heavy Duty is not what made the Mentzer brothers pros, but it was a nice new unused gimmick to push, a variation on Arthur Jones' system to sell Nautilus machines.
 Weider & Gironda had theirs, Bob Kennedy had pre-exhaustion, etc. Mike himself didnt do 1 or 2 sets as he prescribed, when called on it, he would say the other 3 or 4 sets were warm-ups.
This is like when Darden mentions in articles and books how by following Jones' superior methods, Arnold, Sergio, Viator, Coe, Wilson, etc all surpassed plateaus, made unbelievable gains, smashed records....  So why did all these names go back to traditional training after finding the holy grail? Were they scared they'd get too big?
Title: Re: found an interesting quote by Mentzer regarding his training of Sharon Bruneau
Post by: _bruce_ on September 08, 2012, 02:56:08 AM
Just like everyone else, Mentzer was selling something, Heavy Duty is not what made the Mentzer brothers pros, but it was a nice new unused gimmick to push, a variation on Arthur Jones' system to sell Nautilus machines.
 Weider & Gironda had theirs, Bob Kennedy had pre-exhaustion, etc. Mike himself didnt do 1 or 2 sets as he prescribed, when called on it, he would say the other 3 or 4 sets were warm-ups.
This is like when Darden mentions in articles and books how by following Jones' superior methods, Arnold, Sergio, Viator, Coe, Wilson, etc all surpassed plateaus, made unbelievable gains, smashed records....  So why did all these names go back to traditional training after finding the holy grail? Were they scared they'd get too big?

x1000
Title: Re: found an interesting quote by Mentzer regarding his training of Sharon Bruneau
Post by: Slik on September 08, 2012, 03:18:15 AM
you = lustful cockmonster

"omg, I wish this hot chick would go away instead of parading her ass up and down for my viewing pleasure"

haha. yup.  i thot about wut i wrote.  no doubt i could watch that all day.  but i don't know.  when a chick gets on drugs...the juice..they get this confidence about them that borders on arrogance..and all i am saying is when there's a million people in the gym and you are cutting a path doing walking lunges like everyone should move or watch out for you i personally don't like it.  hot or not. 
Title: Re: found an interesting quote by Mentzer regarding his training of Sharon Bruneau
Post by: dj181 on September 09, 2012, 06:23:35 AM
My training has been tailored over the years to fit steady progress based on reading and following Mentzer/Yates/Jones and a few other proponents of HIT. I take the fundamentals of HIT and try and adapt it to keep gains consistent by tweaking the variables such as frequency etc and recording everything I do. Like I said, it helps that I have numerous training partners, we usually train in at least a trio so everything can be compared as nerdy as that sounds. To be honest with you, I have been training like this for coming on 7 years now and I have pretty much reached my peak naturally. I'm getting older, my hormones are going to start declining, my recovery rate is not going to be what it was, it's not realistic to keep putting pound upon pound of muscle on an already built frame, there is a finite amount of muscle you will put on naturally and even aided by PEDs.

If I PM you I would outline a routine that you could adapt based on recorded workouts, but remembering to only change certain variables. But, if Mentzer was right about you being, "like an unbridled horse" lol, we may never get to that.


like i said before, i believe that there's under-training as well, and in my experience if i take more than 10 days or so btw bodyparts i start to gradually regress ie. drop a rep or 2

one thing he said which makes a whole lotta sense is that as one grows progressively bigger and stronger that they need to put more rest days btw bodyparts
Title: Re: found an interesting quote by Mentzer regarding his training of Sharon Bruneau
Post by: Irongrip400 on September 09, 2012, 06:29:51 AM
I knew someone who, because of work and family etc, could only train once a week.

Week one he did chest, shoulders, triceps

Week two was legs

Week three was back, biceps

He did high volume and pretty high intensity (many sets to failure). Workouts were two hours or so.

Made better progress than most of the gym.

Not gonna lie, but I workout once a week sometimes, and as far as strength, it's about the same. The only thing that changes the first week back in the gym after an extensive layoff is volume. If you're not on drugs, muscle memory is a great thing.
Title: Re: found an interesting quote by Mentzer regarding his training of Sharon Bruneau
Post by: Jaime on September 09, 2012, 09:26:25 AM
It's all bullshit. It's all how you as an individual genetically respond to training.

Dorian had a great back wow, what type of training do i do to get a back like that?

Biceps.....Actually i'll skip that advice tyvm.

The same goes for any bodybuilder, it has nothing to do with how they train.
Title: Re: found an interesting quote by Mentzer regarding his training of Sharon Bruneau
Post by: BB on September 09, 2012, 09:26:46 AM
are you serious???

Yes, he was in and out of hospitals during the 80's. The amphetamines and his loss to Arnold in '80 screwed him up bad. The story about the Arnold Hit Squad  was a famous one, but there are others like the time he showed up at Arthur Jones's house in the 80's and was so tweaked out that Arthur threw him out and instructed his body guards to never let him near him again, etc.......

I liked Mentzer's build but never felt him to be the thinking man's bodybuilder that he was held out to be, he always struck me as one of the junkies that had a intelligent thought and wrapped a whole bunch odd ball junkie logic around it. The only difference is that he had a bit of established credibility to push it all along.

When you actually talk to the folks that were there, they mention that there was a lot more to "Heavy Duty" than he actually wrote about, lots of sets counted as warm ups, etc...........
Title: Re: found an interesting quote by Mentzer regarding his training of Sharon Bruneau
Post by: SquatsRule on September 09, 2012, 09:30:02 AM
Mentzer is responsible for creating legions of lazy pussy bodybuilders who are constantly worried of over training.
Title: Re: found an interesting quote by Mentzer regarding his training of Sharon Bruneau
Post by: PJim on September 09, 2012, 10:01:15 AM
Yes, he was in and out of hospitals during the 80's. The amphetamines and his loss to Arnold in '80 screwed him up bad. The story about the Arnold Hit Squad  was a famous one, but there are others like the time he showed up at Arthur Jones's house in the 80's and was so tweaked out that Arthur threw him out and instructed his body guards to never let him near him again, etc.......

I liked Mentzer's build but never felt him to be the thinking man's bodybuilder that he was held out to be, he always struck me as one of the junkies that had a intelligent thought and wrapped a whole bunch odd ball junkie logic around it. The only difference is that he had a bit of established credibility to push it all along.

When you actually talk to the folks that were there, they mention that there was a lot more to "Heavy Duty" than he actually wrote about, lots of sets counted as warm ups, etc...........

I know of a certain Mr.Olympia who very much dislikes Arnold and who knows about his links with certain societies...
Title: Re: found an interesting quote by Mentzer regarding his training of Sharon Bruneau
Post by: Dr Dutch on September 09, 2012, 10:31:49 AM
i find this hard to believe, but who knows, maybe it's true...

“A few years ago I started training champion bodybuilder Sharon Bruneau. After her first week of three workouts, she told me she wanted to stop training for a while because she’d already seen an increase in size. She was worried she’d be too big for the Ms. Olympia. After three weeks of no training, I put Sharon through another week of three workouts. Curiously enough, she was stronger on every set of every exercise in that second series of three workouts. That meant she’d succeeded in stimulating an increase during the first series of workouts and that her body had not only produced but also maintained the increase—for three weeks. If the body does in fact decompensate after 96 hours, she would have been weaker, but she was considerably stronger after three weeks of absolutely no weight training."


In Holland we call this kind of "interesting quotes" lies.... ::)
Title: Re: found an interesting quote by Mentzer regarding his training of Sharon Bruneau
Post by: PJim on September 09, 2012, 10:43:24 AM
indeed.

its not even a problem doing "hit" AND high volume at the same time, same training session.



One of the two will diminish. You need a certain amount of volume to allow yourself to work up to working intensely, but after a certain point that intensity will dwindle because your body will start using energy systems that kick in when endurance, not power is required. That should be grasped as long as you have a mediocre understanding of energy systems. You have to draw the line somewhere, otherwise you're sending the wrong signals to your body and you are if you will flicking the switch to hypertrophy on and off again.
Title: Re: found an interesting quote by Mentzer regarding his training of Sharon Bruneau
Post by: PJim on September 09, 2012, 10:58:09 AM
i believe hypertrophy comes from drugs rather than training choice.and calorie intake.

but yes, that point where you can feel that the energy for power is gone and only endurance is anymore possible, thats about the point where its time to end a workout.

something like this will do for most:

light high volume warmup

heavy basic lifts some 5-10 sets

followed by high volume sets,10 to 15.



The drugs facilitate the growth, you still need to stimulate it.
As a lifetime natural (which sounds pretentious I know), I can only comment on what I know training naturally.

For a natural it is NOT, 80 percent diet and rest/20 percent training and all these random ratios you hear of.
IT IS; 50 percent diet and rest/50 percent training. You cannot have one without the other and aid hypertrophy. I want to make sure I do just enough training to stimulate, but no so much that I am unable to recuperate.