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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: animal1991 on September 14, 2012, 10:48:42 PM
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I have his Heavy Duty I and Heavy Duty Nutrition books, but I can't seem to find his Heavy Duty JOURNAL where he entails his prep for a Mr Olympia contest in the 80's (I think)
Does anyone have it or be able to scan it to a PDF file?
Does anyone have a link to it?
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Anyone?
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Sorry, don't have it
Where did you get the Heavy Duty books from?
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I believe Mike Mentzers Heavy Duty Journal is in The National Museum of American History in Washington, DC and is being protected by 6" bullet proof glass.
Sorry, it cannot be accessed.
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I believe Mike Mentzers Heavy Duty Journal is in The National Museum of American History in Washington, DC and is being protected by 6" bullet proof glass.
Sorry, it cannot be accessed.
;D ;D ;D
actually, it's a damn good read, but i wan't able to find it on-line either, so it looks like i gotta make a trip to dc lol
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;D ;D ;D
actually, it's a damn good read, but i wan't able to find it on-line either, so it looks like i gotta make a trip to dc lol
Plus, you have to get passed the 6" bullet proof glass and security guards.
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If you Google Heavy Duty Nutrition and Mike Mentzer Heavy Duty you may be able to find it. I have those books, but can't seem to find Heavy Duty II.
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I have his Heavy Duty I and Heavy Duty Nutrition books, but I can't seem to find his Heavy Duty JOURNAL where he entails his prep for a Mr Olympia contest in the 80's (I think)
Does anyone have it or be able to scan it to a PDF file?
Does anyone have a link to it?
I actually have the original copies of all three of Mentzer's original books from 1980... "Heavy duty", "Heavy duty journal" and "Heavy duty nutrition"... As well as the original copies of Steve Davis' "The magic of symmetry" and "Achieving total muscularity" copyrighted 1976... I have the two original Arthur Jones bulletins as well...
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I actually have the original copies of all three of Mentzer's original books from 1980... "Heavy duty", "Heavy duty journal" and "Heavy duty nutrition"... As well as the original copies of Steve Davis' "The magic of symmetry" and "Achieving total muscularity" copyrighted 1976... I have the two original Arthur Jones bulletins as well...
Would it be possible for you to scan the journal and convert it to pdf? A lot of guys would appreciate. :)
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I actually have the original copies of all three of Mentzer's original books from 1980... "Heavy duty", "Heavy duty journal" and "Heavy duty nutrition"... As well as the original copies of Steve Davis' "The magic of symmetry" and "Achieving total muscularity" copyrighted 1976... I have the two original Arthur Jones bulletins as well...
how did Steve Davis advocate to train?
and btw, it should have been titled "The magic of proportion" if he was talking about all bodyparts matching and none being too over-developed in relation to the others
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If you Google Heavy Duty Nutrition and Mike Mentzer Heavy Duty you may be able to find it. I have those books, but can't seem to find Heavy Duty II.
you should also check the orignal cybergenics routine, as they basically just stole Mentzer's routine from his 1st Heavy Duty book put out in the late 70s and called it thier routine lol
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Always liked Mentzer. Reading his articles and reducing the number of sets I did in my late tens was responsible for some of the biggest gains I ever made. As a kid I'd articles advocating 20 sets per body part in the old Muscle and fitness magazines but they negated to inform you that it was over training unless you were juiced.
M.M's articles changed all of that for a lot of people. Didn't agree with EVERYTHING he wrote (like ONLY 1 or two working sets) but he was spot on about a lot of stuff. It's unfortunate that the mental/emotional problems he had later on in life made his ideas invalid to some people. :-\
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I can't find anything useful about Cybergenics on the web.
Its really frustrating. The HD journal is really no where to be found and I really want it!
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I can't find anything useful about Cybergenics on the web.
Its really frustrating. The HD journal is really no where to be found and I really want it!
the cybergenics protocol was basically take a weight that you can get 6 or so reps with and then get those reps while going til failure and then do forced reps with it til you hit negative faliure, and then drop that weight by 50% and do it again til negative failure and then again drop that weight by 50% and do it one more time till negative failure, and then repeat this cycle another 2 or 3 times for 3 to 4 cycles total :o :o :o
IMO if you did this right it would probably kill you, or you'd come damn near close to death ;D ;D ;D
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here's the arm routine:
CYCLE 1-AA REPEAT CYCLE 3 TIMES
Barbell Curls at 95% maximum (+) and (-) failure
Barbell Curls at 50% of the above (+) and (-) failure
Barbell Curls at 50% of the above (+) and (-) failure
CYCLE 2-AA REPEAT CYCLE 2 TIMES
One-arm Concentration Curls at 95% maximum (+) and (-) failure
One-arm Concentration Curls at 50% of the above (+) and (-) failure
One-arm Concentration Curls at 50% of the above (+) and (-) failure
CYCLE 1-TR REPEAT CYCLE 4 TIMES
Lying Barbell Extensions at 90% maximum (+) and (-) failure
Close Grip Bench Press at same weight as above (+) and (-) failure
Lying Barbell Extensions at 90% maximum (+) and (-) failure
Close Grip Bench Press at same weight as above (+) and (-) failure
CYCLE 2-TR REPEAT CYCLE 2 TIMES
Medium Grip Pressdowns at 90% maximum (+) and (-) failure
Medium Grip Pressdowns at 50% of the above (+) and (-) failure
Medium Grip Pressdowns at 50% of the above (+) and (-) failure
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I believe Mike Mentzers Heavy Duty Journal is in The National Museum of American History in Washington, DC and is being protected by 6" bullet proof glass.
Sorry, it cannot be accessed.
Oops. Wish I'd held onto my copy, then :)
It was an interesting book. Intenceman could probably tell you all about it. The thing that most stood out to me was Mentzer's rest-pause training, which he used to whip himself into shape for his Universe win IIRC. He'd do about 6 max singles with 10-15 seconds rest in between. Usually someone would either help him complete the subsequent reps by providing just a little resistance, and/or sometimes he'd drop the weight a little.
As far as a bodypart split goes, all I remember is him doing a 2 on/1 off type thing. And some stuff in the book was weird; e.g., in the first workout, he'd do something like chest, back and shoulders. The next day, he might do legs, abs and arms ... but I distinctly remember that he mentioned doing a set of incline press on the leg day ??? Granted, he was somewhat out of shape at that point, but some of the overlap struck me as odd.
I know people who have tried his style of rest-pausing to great effect. It never helped me much ... I just seemed to overtrain. Dante's rest-pausing worked for me and that German P.I.T.T. stuff treats me kindly on occasion, but Mentzer's best stuff was in his '92 Heavy Duty book IMO.
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I got it. Go to his site I think you can buy there that's where I got it.
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I got it. Go to his site I think you can buy there that's where I got it.
did you ever try the cybergenics training protocol brother?
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I might have the pdf, send me a message with email and ill send it to you
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wonder if its better than picking up the weight and putting it away
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did you ever try the cybergenics training protocol brother?
Nope useless in my eyes.
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Nope useless in my eyes.
how do you figure?
i think that it could work quite well, but not 3 or 4 cycles of it
it's basically drop sets while training to positive and negative failure, and it's brutally hard if you do it right
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how do you figure?
i think that it could work quite well, but not 3 or 4 cycles of it
it's basically drop sets while training to positive and negative failure, and it's brutally hard if you do it right
Leads to over training.
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how do you figure?
i think that it could work quite well, but not 3 or 4 cycles of it
it's basically drop sets while training to positive and negative failure, and it's brutally hard if you do it right
its best to avoid the eccentric part of the lift for overtraining
just lift the weight and put it away IMMEDIATLEY dont let the wait down sat it up on a shelf
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I tried his methods and they seemed to work for awhile and then the gains slowed to a halt. But then I wasn't on drugs like Mike was. He was pretty honest about his use of what you guys call gear but that doesn't negate the truth of some of his practices.
I like the idea of rest/pause and still employ it occasionally. Mike Mentzer and Arthur Jones gave the regular guy a way to train and have a life outside the gym.
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just lift something heavy than sat it on a tall table to avoid overtraining
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just lift something heavy than sat it on a tall table to avoid overtraining
The Weider Falcon Principle is revealed. ;D
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Leads to over training.
so do you think that performing the set just til positive failure will give the best possible results?
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so do you think that performing the set just til positive failure will give the best possible results?
Forced reps and negatives are needed periodically.
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did you ever try the cybergenics training protocol brother?
LOL I did! What a waste.
Same with Hot Stuff, Boron and Vanadyl Sulfate
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Anyone? Someone must have it? Pleeeease
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Anyone? Someone must have it? Pleeeease
what "magic" are you looking for dude?
you just gotta train hard and til failure and get fucking stronger
bigger training loads=bigger muscles
the program does not need to be absolutely perfect, the only thing that matters is training load increases
stop thinking so much and JUST DO IT
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what "magic" are you looking for dude?
you just gotta train hard and til failure and get fucking stronger
bigger training loads=bigger muscles
the program does not need to be absolutely perfect, the only thing that matters is training load increases
stop thinking so much and JUST DO IT
I'm not looking for magic bro. I just want it because I want to read it, that's all. :) And I am doing it! I just want some good, new reading material of Mentzer and I can't find the Journal or HD II anywhere!
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I'm not looking for magic bro. I just want it because I want to read it, that's all. :) And I am doing it! I just want some good, new reading material of Mentzer and I can't find the Journal or HD II anywhere!
allright man, that's cool
in fact here's Mentzer's exact training "cycle" circa. 78-79
Monday and Thursday
Chest:
Pec-Deck (to failure)
Incline Barbell Press
(forced reps)
Cable or Dumbbell Fly
4 cycles with no pause between movements
Triceps:
Triceps Extension (Nautilus)
Weighted Dip
3 cycles of 8 reps to failure with no rest between movements (rest between cycles)
Thighs:
Heavy Leg Extension 1 x 10 reps
Leg Press 1 x 10 reps
Parallel Squat 1 x 10 reps
Leg Curl 1 x 10 reps
Sometimes the above exercises are performed in superset style. He always uses maximum poundages.
Tuesday and Friday
Back:
Pullover (Nautilus)
Close-Grip Chin (underhand)
2 cycles of superset
Long Cable Pull 2 x 8 reps
One Arm Dumbbell Row 2 x 8 reps
Deltoids:
Lateral Raise (Nautilus)
Press Behind Neck (Nautilus)
2 cycles of superset
Biceps:
Preacher Bench Curl
Barbell Curl
superset above for 3 cycles (I have done this, it is awesome)
Concentration Dumbbell Curl
Calves:
Toe Raise (calf machine)
Toe Raise (leg press)
1 set each
Abs:
Leg Raise (chinning bar)
Crunch (machine)
3 supersets until he feels a burn
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allright man, that's cool
in fact here's Mentzer's exact training "cycle" circa. 78-79
Monday and Thursday
Chest:
Pec-Deck (to failure)
Incline Barbell Press
(forced reps)
Cable or Dumbbell Fly
4 cycles with no pause between movements
Triceps:
Triceps Extension (Nautilus)
Weighted Dip
3 cycles of 8 reps to failure with no rest between movements (rest between cycles)
Thighs:
Heavy Leg Extension 1 x 10 reps
Leg Press 1 x 10 reps
Parallel Squat 1 x 10 reps
Leg Curl 1 x 10 reps
Sometimes the above exercises are performed in superset style. He always uses maximum poundages.
Tuesday and Friday
Back:
Pullover (Nautilus)
Close-Grip Chin (underhand)
2 cycles of superset
Long Cable Pull 2 x 8 reps
One Arm Dumbbell Row 2 x 8 reps
Deltoids:
Lateral Raise (Nautilus)
Press Behind Neck (Nautilus)
2 cycles of superset
Biceps:
Preacher Bench Curl
Barbell Curl
superset above for 3 cycles (I have done this, it is awesome)
Concentration Dumbbell Curl
Calves:
Toe Raise (calf machine)
Toe Raise (leg press)
1 set each
Abs:
Leg Raise (chinning bar)
Crunch (machine)
3 supersets until he feels a burn
Thanks man. Yesterday I did his "push" routine in HD I:
DB Flyes to failure (pre-exhaust)
Incline DB press
Lateral raises (pre-exhaust)
Seated DB press
Tricep pushdowns (pre-exhaust)
Dips
It kicked my ass but I really enjoyed it. Have never felt such a great contraction in my pecs.
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Thanks man. Yesterday I did his "push" routine in HD I:
DB Flyes to failure (pre-exhaust)
Incline DB press
Lateral raises (pre-exhaust)
Seated DB press
Tricep pushdowns (pre-exhaust)
Dips
It kicked my ass but I really enjoyed it. Have never felt such a great contraction in my pecs.
IMO that routine is better than his actual workouts from the late 70's
how's your strength increases going? recently my lunges have gone from 40 pounds per bell for 6 reps to 70 pounds per bell for 6 reps, and my quads are noticeably bigger
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Animal,
You're in SA, right?
Where did you get the mentzer books, online?
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IMO that routine is better than his actual workouts from the late 70's
how's your strength increases going? recently my lunges have gone from 40 pounds per bell for 6 reps to 70 pounds per bell for 6 reps, and my quads are noticeably bigger
Pretty good. My lunges has gone from 20kg dumbbells to 25kg dumbbells for about 8 reps. That's the only noticable. The rest hasn't really increases but I've maintained it. And I try and do something different each week so its difficult to really say where I'm gaining or not.
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Animal,
You're in SA, right?
Where did you get the mentzer books, online?
Yes, I'm from SA. Well I just downloaded it in PDF format. But I think Amazon has the books themselves
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Heavy Duty
http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/36717640
Heavy Duty Nutrition
http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/3482497/html5
Not sure if they work but worth a try. I can't see the download link
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Pretty good. My lunges has gone from 20kg dumbbells to 25kg dumbbells for about 8 reps. That's the only noticable. The rest hasn't really increases but I've maintained it. And I try and do something different each week so its difficult to really say where I'm gaining or not.
you gotta stick with the same exercises, at least for awhile
this "muscle confusion" concept is a load of horseshit
and if you've just maintained your training loads then that basically means that you have just maintained your size
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you gotta stick with the same exercises, at least for awhile
this "muscle confusion" concept is a load of horseshit
and if you've just maintained your training loads then that basically means that you have just maintained your size
I'm not doing the whole "muscle confusion" thing. I just like to mix it up.
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I believe Mike Mentzers Heavy Duty Journal is in The National Museum of American History in Washington, DC and is being protected by 6" bullet proof glass.
Sorry, it cannot be accessed.
I nearly fell for it :D
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I'm not doing the whole "muscle confusion" thing. I just like to mix it up.
as long as you are increasing every workout even one rep on a exercise or weight you are progressing. The problem with changing exercises every workout it's difficult to gauge progress. I say stay on the same exercises maybe 8 weeks.
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as long as you are increasing every workout even one rep on a exercise or weight you are progressing. The problem with changing exercises every workout it's difficult to gauge progress. I say stay on the same exercises maybe 8 weeks.
THIS
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as long as you are increasing every workout even one rep on a exercise or weight you are progressing. The problem with changing exercises every workout it's difficult to gauge progress. I say stay on the same exercises maybe 8 weeks.
I follow a routine that's a bit like the one Animal'91 is doing, heavily inspired by the 1992 edition of HD and some of Dante's writings. I find it helps to alternate between a pool of 2-3 "key" exercises per bodypart. Like for pecs, if you typically do a press and a fly motion, I might do the same fly each week, but I'll do incline press one week and machine bench the next (or whatever).
On the other hand, every so often I'll just do the same main movement/bodypart every week and, like you, stick with it for 6-8 weeks. That's not a bad way to go either.
I guess that's what amuses me most about training debates. There are about ten thousand different means to reach the same end in this game, at least training-wise, but volume guys and HIT-type guys will be arguing about what's better until a 100 mile-wide comet nails Earth and turns us all into molten gloop :)
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I follow a routine that's a bit like the one Animal'91 is doing, heavily inspired by the 1992 edition of HD and some of Dante's writings. I find it helps to alternate between a pool of 2-3 "key" exercises per bodypart. Like for pecs, if you typically do a press and a fly motion, I might do the same fly each week, but I'll do incline press one week and machine bench the next (or whatever).
On the other hand, every so often I'll just do the same main movement/bodypart every week and, like you, stick with it for 6-8 weeks. That's not a bad way to go either.
I guess that's what amuses me most about training debates. There are about ten thousand different means to reach the same end in this game, at least training-wise, but volume guys and HIT-type guys will be arguing about what's better until a 100 mile-wide comet nails Earth and turns us all into molten gloop :)
[/b] Good Post. LOL ...Genes are the key if you dont have them then take all the roids or whatever you wont be Mr O. Hit always worked for me better I have tried both. See I dont like training but want the body so doing the minimum is best for me.
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I believe Mike Mentzers Heavy Duty Journal is in The National Museum of American History in Washington, DC and is being protected by 6" bullet proof glass.
Sorry, it cannot be accessed.
;D ;D
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I'm not looking for magic bro. I just want it because I want to read it, that's all. :) And I am doing it! I just want some good, new reading material of Mentzer and I can't find the Journal or HD II anywhere!
The Journal is not really a book more like a pamphlet and only about 40 pages. Yes, he talks about rest-pause and some other things, not really that great.
HD II was mostly philosophy and I think the program sucked, training only 2x a week. The routine in HD was great and think it was his best work.
If you just want to read about Mentzer for the hell of it, or because he was like one of the few bodybuilders that had a brain. You can read this one,
(http://images.borders.com.au/images/bau/97800714/9780071452939/0/0/plain/the-wisdom-of-mike-mentzer-the-art-science-and-philosophy-of-a-bodybuilding-legend.jpg)
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The Journal is not really a book more like a pamphlet and only about 40 pages. Yes, he talks about rest-pause and some other things, not really that great.
HD II was mostly philosophy and I think the program sucked, training only 2x a week. The routine in HD was great and think it was his best work.
If you just want to read about Mentzer for the hell of it, or because he was like one of the few bodybuilders that had a brain. You can read this one,
(http://images.borders.com.au/images/bau/97800714/9780071452939/0/0/plain/the-wisdom-of-mike-mentzer-the-art-science-and-philosophy-of-a-bodybuilding-legend.jpg)
so do you think that training just twice a week is under-training/under-stimulation?
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Yes, also training only 2x a week your diet would have to be spot on since you would be missing that caloric burn and post exercise calorie burn (EPOC).
I think you could maintain your muscle mass with 2x a week.