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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Wiggs on February 19, 2013, 03:12:21 PM
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Oil or not this shit is insane. LOLOLOL....Heath ::)
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for the longest time you said heath was better
what made you come back to reality?
E
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every one has been saying this.....
heath wouldnt be top tier in the 90's
....
heat just has big arms....
mr o now but overrated
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Melvin anthony and Tom Prince in the background.
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Id give cormier the edge there
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Id give cormier the edge there
Cormier, when on, was fucking awesome! I really didnt like him at the time he was competing but now i see the vids and I'm like, "Damn!" If I had to take one pro's frame and genetics, I would be hard pressed not to take Cormier's. He looked like he could have added another 20-25lbs and still maintain that sick waist. Perfect ab structure, insertions to have a crazy "cobra-hood" for a back, and legs dry as fuck and cut. They say he partied like an animal so who knows how much better he could have been?
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Flex and Chris smoke Phil
Phil = Arms
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Cmon man that was 14 years ago....move on already !
BTW... Here's Arnold taking names at the 80' Mr.O ;D
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-P63_MZ-l7G0/Ts6xa2fTx5I/AAAAAAAAICs/Kctv4CCGarM/s1600/036.jpg)
WOOOSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH H
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Flex's oil in his rear delts and triceps are revolting...
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Cormier, when on, was fucking awesome! I really didnt like him at the time he was competing but now i see the vids and I'm like, "Damn!" If I had to take one pro's frame and genetics, I would be hard pressed not to take Cormier's. He looked like he could have added another 20-25lbs and still maintain that sick waist. Perfect ab structure, insertions to have a crazy "cobra-hood" for a back, and legs dry as fuck and cut. They say he partied like an animal so who knows how much better he could have been?
ive said it before, Cormier looked like he could compete at 275, and still have his lines.
And in that regard, he was better than Flex. Flex maybe if he did it incrementally could compete at 240, maybe. But he did it in a big jump. He looked his best at 216-224. Which is light. But he looked good. Cormier looked good at 250...and I think if he went into a serious direction, he would have pushed Ronnie, and maybe even beat him.
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Flex's oil in his rear delts and triceps are revolting...
Hams soft as a baby's ass too. Nary a cut to be seen
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Hams soft as a baby's ass too. Nary a cut to be seen
he hasn't dipped into Chad's Special Sauce" yet...
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he hasn't dipped into Chad's Special Sauce" yet...
really when did his hams have any deep cuts post '93?
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cormier wins..
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really when did his hams have any deep cuts post '93?
97 was decent, the 98 Arnold he had them. I don't know about the 99 Mr. O...oddly, he never really had conditioned hams over the body weight of low 220s.
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chris has one of the best chests ever shape wise....
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jesus, phil is so much better then this.
they look crazy but heath is just much better.
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jesus, phil is so much better then this.
they look crazy but heath is just much better.
sure..
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jesus, phil is so much better then this.
they look crazy but heath is just much better.
CC rapes the fuck out of Phil 10x till Tuesday. Smaller waist, wider shoulders, real muscle not marshmallow muscle, need I go on?
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Melvin anthony and Tom Prince in the background.
Rico McClinton and Charles Glass as well
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jesus, phil is so much better then this.
they look crazy but heath is just much better.
guess you got analed by heath
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for the longest time you said heath was better
what made you come back to reality?
E
Gave up Phil like he gave up black women.
(http://www.musculardevelopment.com/images/stories/breakingnews/phil-austin02.jpg)
Phil isn't giving it up anytime soon. Kai's weaved bun will fall off on the O stage before Phil places second.
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chris has one of the best chests ever shape wise....
Yes but he lacks separation between his Chest and his front delts, so it is actually one of his flaws in his genetic structure, other then that he would be perfect.
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top all time
ronnie
arnold
lee haney
dorian
flex wheeler
chris cormier
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yeah
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Gave up Phil like he gave up black women.
(http://www.musculardevelopment.com/images/stories/breakingnews/phil-austin02.jpg)
Phil isn't giving it up anytime soon. Kai's weaved bun will fall off on the O stage before Phil places second.
LOL!
yeah
Cormier always either had that "I don't care look" or that "smirk"
Anyways, our current mr. o Champion
(http://galllery.factor-sport.com/var/albums/Stars/Phil%20Heath%202.jpg?m=1288275356)
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top all time
ronnie
arnold
lee haney
dorian
flex wheeler
chris cormier
Good list....but I would have to include Samir.
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Two guys who should have dominated bodybuilding and should have been Mr. O's but were lazy as fuck.
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chris wasnt lazy he trained very hard, flex was so genetically gifted, he trained hard too
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chris wasnt lazy he trained very hard, flex was so genetically gifted, he trained hard too
If training was all it took to be a bodybuilder, then I can think of several guys who could never win a local show that would be Mr. Olympias, and please these guys didn't train hard, especially when compared to Dorian, the king at the time.
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i went over to golds to see chris while back, hes doin good hes the top trainer at golds now, im still waiting for him to get huge again
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Two guys who should have dominated bodybuilding and should have been Mr. O's but were lazy as fuck.
cormier was not lazy.....suppose you think you are stronger than him too.
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cormier was not lazy.....suppose you think you are stronger than him too.
how many shows did Chris actually come in shape?? He was a typical drug addict and partier, who didn't have his priorities straight for bodybuilding.
If he did he would have been even better than he was.
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cormier and flex both had better physiques than dorian, and cormier went to england to train under dorian
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chris is up there for all time bodybuilding wins, he has over 70 contests and finished in top 3 50% of those shows
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cormier and flex both had better physiques than dorian, and cormier went to england to train under dorian
and both lost because they couldn't diet.. Chris almost died when he trained with Dorian lol. Don't you remember him vomiting his brains out?
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no its not that he almost died, he was already trying to come back from a near death incident, an infection in a nerve that happened before he trained with dorian
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maybe the most consistent pro next to s ray.......405 for 12 on incline......many pro wins and many top 10 finishes at the olympia.
the guy had some of the best quad separation of all time.
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the problem is, phil doesnt have the competition these guys had for nearly 20 years, they were in the golden era of bodybuilding
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the competition doesnt matter when comparing these 3.
your argument goes against own logic,man, if they had more fierce competition then theyd be forced to diet harder.
phil comes in absolutely ripped every time, these 2 didnt.
hed beat them simply based on that.
exactly
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see thats the thing, they had to diet so hard because of the competition, they couldnt come dialed in as easy
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every one has been saying this.....
heath wouldnt be top tier in the 90's
....
heat just has big arms....
mr o now but overrated
That's bs and you know it. Here he compares very well with a BB legend from the 90's.
(http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg836/scaled.php?server=836&filename=kevinphil3.jpg&res=landing)
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more..
(http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg138/scaled.php?server=138&filename=kevinphil2.jpg&res=landing)
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see thats the thing, they had to diet so hard because of the competition, they couldnt come dialed in as easy
that makes no fucking sense.. they were out of shape because they dieted harder? Are you retarded? have you ever been on a diet in your life?
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how many shows did Chris actually come in shape?? He was a typical drug addict and partier, who didn't have his priorities straight for bodybuilding.
If he did he would have been even better than he was.
A lot, and he pretty muched owned the Ironman contest, I think he beat Flex in 2000.
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cormier and flex both had better physiques than dorian, and cormier went to england to train under dorian
WHAT,.......... FUCK NO ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
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more..
(http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg138/scaled.php?server=138&filename=kevinphil2.jpg&res=landing)
I love when people throw up those out if scale comparison.....as if Like width wise you couldn't take 2 of Heath out of Levrone .... Levrone never had the genetics of chris or flex.... He poos on Heath too
You can post all the out I'd scale pics you want ... Heath is mr o now yes .... All because if arms arms and a weak line up
Would be eaten alive in the 90s era
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Levrone did have that wow factor that Cormier didn't...
But overall development, structure, size, "real muscle" with no obvious site injections or synthol, and calves goes to Cormier. IMO even better than flex
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LOL!Cormier always either had that "I don't care look" or that "smirk"
Anyways, our current mr. o Champion
(http://galllery.factor-sport.com/var/albums/Stars/Phil%20Heath%202.jpg?m=1288275356)
CC was just as half ass as Melvin, just taller with better genetics, so he got by. He should have married Monica Brant when he had the chance but he was too busy at the magazine stand. :-\
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Cormier was in one of his best shape ever at the '99 O. Should have topped oily Flex who was clearly over the hill. Flex '93 shits on any other version of Flex, he wasn't meant to carry more than 225 on his frame; but at that weight, he was one of the best ever. Ronnie was too much to be beaten but Cormier sure brought something different on the table that year. And for hose who think Heath's conditioning tops Cormier's or Flex's, time to buy a new set of eyes: blown up doll Heath looks like marshmallow compared to them.
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i think youre the one who needs a set of glases mate.
phil is much sharper than these 2.
look at lower back, hams and glutes.
oh and cut in arms.shoulders.
thought itd be obvious to everyone. ???
I'm not talking about Flex 99 but Flex 93. And the fact that Heath looks like he's wearing something like this doesn't seem to bother you. Even oily, Flex looked like he had some density. You can't judge conditioning without entering that parameter. Remember a guy named Dorian Yates?
(http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/pjpeg/33616a43d3cbfe5aa3098900d615cbcf34120410.jpg)
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I'm not talking about Flex 99 but Flex 93. And the fact that Heath looks like he's wearing something like this doesn't seem to bother you. Even oily, Flex looked like he had some density. You can't judge conditioning without entering that parameter. Remember a guy named Dorian Yates?
(http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/pjpeg/33616a43d3cbfe5aa3098900d615cbcf34120410.jpg)
;D ;D ;D
..heath is mr o... at the moment...
but lets be real not even in the same league as cormier..
zero density, its just the arms that everone goes ga ga over.....
good muscle shape... but out of whack symmetry
very overatted IMO.. just a taller lee priest.... again priest outside off arms..... nada
kevin coleman cormier nasser dexter shawn ray...... etc...
better
kai is better too out of whack too but better
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heath is in better shape then flex or chris have ever been. He also is very complete with an outstanding back.
I think nostalgia is getting the better of some people, in that clip for example both of them are smooth in the lower body.
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keepin mind ive said cormier has the best structure ever, and flex has the best muscle shape possible and the flow.
but by jdging criteria on bbuilding shows, phil would just destroy them
kevin surely was "wow" , but had flaws, his back sucked.
coleman would still be number 1 i agree.
nasser, the back spoiled it all.
dexter is close to perfect, i agree.
shawn ray?no
You just lost me on Ray. Fucking flawless, almost took down an absolute monster in Yates. No fucking way is that Michelin Man Health better than Shawn Ray
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heath is in better shape then flex or chris have ever been. He also is very complete with an outstanding back.
I think nostalgia is getting the better of some people, in that clip for example both of them are smooth in the lower body.
the thing with Flex, is he won most of contests with his shape, which Phil cannot compete with. Sure he is conditioned, and that will carry him, but Flex in condition with his genetic shape, few could beat him when he was on.
But, Flex was spotty. If I had to pick who would come in shape and win a contest between the two, it would be Phil, but if Flex came in shape----everybody including Phil's wife, mother and stepdad would give it to Flex.
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keepin mind ive said cormier has the best structure ever, and flex has the best muscle shape possible and the flow.
but by jdging criteria on bbuilding shows, phil would just destroy them
kevin surely was "wow" , but had flaws, his back sucked.
coleman would still be number 1 i agree.
nasser, the back spoiled it all.
dexter is close to perfect, i agree.
shawn ray?no
Yates?
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the thing with Flex, is he won most of contests with his shape, which Phil cannot compete with. Sure he is conditioned, and that will carry him, but Flex in condition with his genetic shape, few could beat him when he was on.
But, Flex was spotty. If I had to pick who would come in shape and win a contest between the two, it would be Phil, but if Flex came in shape----everybody including Phil's wife, mother and stepdad would give it to Flex.
Basiacally a arnold classic/ironman version of Flex (at the O he wasn't as sharp) would smoke anyone today
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keepin mind ive said cormier has the best structure ever, and flex has the best muscle shape possible and the flow.
but by jdging criteria on bbuilding shows, phil would just destroy them
kevin surely was "wow" , but had flaws, his back sucked.
coleman would still be number 1 i agree.
nasser, the back spoiled it all.
dexter is close to perfect, i agree.
shawn ray?no
narrow and all arms
...chest not good at all
but im guessing if his arms were medicore your veiw would be different
cormier and flex have less weaknesses, i could care less on how peeled flex is
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you guys need to get out of this arms arm arm mentality.. no density....
IMO he doesnt even make the top 15 best physiques of all time
not dexxter has great arms.... but also a pro chest...
look past the arms bro
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narrow and all arms
..
All arms ::)
(http://www.bodybuildingforums.com.au/attachments/bodybuilding-news/1323d1317011083-2011-sheru-classic-mumbai-india-phil-heath-3.jpg)
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(http://muscletime.com/index.php?view=image&format=raw&type=img&id=40822&option=com_joomgallery&Itemid=202)
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/fee51eee15b2ba91adc2e5192359b5de/tumblr_metw8fGFfX1ravgzno1_500.jpg)
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flex came in once in tiptop shape in his entire career, and very good another time but thats it.
phil comes shredded to be bones no matter what.
yeah ive heard it all, the marshmellow look.thats simply bc hes in better condition,seems fuller.
look at the skin, phil comes with no water retention and no fat anywhere.
compare them when they stand next to eachother.
man, when one athlete is softer than the other, the harder ones will destroy him on stage.
Now I agree Phil's conditioning is stellar especially from the back but he's got all the hardness of a marshmallow
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BTW , Phil is not impressed
(http://tnation.t-nation.com/forum_images/4/f/4f67f_ORIG-phil_heath_foto.jpg)
(http://celebritiesexercise.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/phil-heath-workout2.jpg)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=442010.0;attach=485835;image)
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbvyozrHG31rs4ej4o1_1280.jpg)
(http://www.wallpaperswala.com/wp-content/gallery/phil-heath/phil_heath_training-in-gym.jpg)
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Cormier was in one of his best shape ever at the '99 O. Should have topped oily Flex who was clearly over the hill. Flex '93 shits on any other version of Flex, he wasn't meant to carry more than 225 on his frame; but at that weight, he was one of the best ever. Ronnie was too much to be beaten but Cormier sure brought something different on the table that year. And for hose who think Heath's conditioning tops Cormier's or Flex's, time to buy a new set of eyes: blown up doll Heath looks like marshmallow compared to them.
Flex's best was 98 Arnold look at the pics! He was 228-230 aliced and diced! If he would have stepped on stage at the Olympia in that shape he probably would have beaten Ronnie! He was the favorite to take it that year, then Ronnie showed up in that condition and Flex didn't!
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BTW , Phil is not impressed
(http://tnation.t-nation.com/forum_images/4/f/4f67f_ORIG-phil_heath_foto.jpg)
(http://celebritiesexercise.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/phil-heath-workout2.jpg)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=442010.0;attach=485835;image)
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbvyozrHG31rs4ej4o1_1280.jpg)
(http://www.wallpaperswala.com/wp-content/gallery/phil-heath/phil_heath_training-in-gym.jpg)
;D
You can post all the amazing stand along black and white .. One magic shot out if 10,000 pictures you like that illusion doesn't trick my trained eyes... ;)
Mr o now yes
All time great... no never ... IMO
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;D
You can post all the amazing stand along black and white .. One magic shot out if 10,000 pictures you like that illusion doesn't trick my trained eyes... ;)
Mr o now yes
All time great... no never ... IMO
he would wipe the floor with cormier, just as dexter did and heath shits on him. Chris was good, he just never had any great shots per se. He could have came in, in much better shape. Look at phils hams in the RDB, diced beyond words, cormier would get anihilated from the back.
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this depends, a yates with no teared up arms would beat phil, yes.
with biceps and triceps tear, he shouldnt even compete imo.
and yes, the arnold classic flex might be enough for phil.
but im shocked how severly ppl underestimate phil.
i know he looks unimpressive offseason, and not the widest guy out there, but damn
well yes, without the arms and shoulders, hed be nothing.
but same would apply to levrone.if you take away shoulders and arms from levrone, whats left?a back thats worse than phils and inferior legs to phils.
btw, flexs chest wasnt the biggest out there either, was lacking compared to the rest of him.
ive said i think flex looks better,more pleasing to the eyes, but hed lose vs phil 9 times out of 10.
Yates pre injury of course
Heath has a very good back and lower body, weak chest and narrow, and IMO arms overpower everything. I used to think Priest's arms bordered on "too big", but with Heath it overshadows the rest of his body. Maybe its a personal thing with me
Kai also has stupendous lower body and back, good chest, arms, delts, but they(kai & Heath) still can't match Yates size/conditioning combo
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lmao @ Phil all arms, ah NO.
He has the best hamstrings in all the entire bodybuilding.
Top 2 best back in all bodybuiling, only Kai has him.
Striated glutes
Best shape, next to DEX.
Comes in the most shredded.
So best back, best hams, best arms, most shredded, FAR FROM ONLY ARMS FAR FAR FAR from only arms.
Also deepest cuts.
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and people somehow always overlook his shoulders, the muscle, not the sceletal widht.his shoulder mass is right there with levrones.right up there.
with epic arm insertions.
im no fan of phil at all, but what has to be said has to be said.
Yeah, the delts and arms are huge
But shoulders the size of human heads are not possible without seo. Both kai and phil are full of oil, which is a necessity in modern bbing
Personally I think of it as fake muscle, but it is what it is
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true, but flex without oil would be lightweight nationals level.
but how does he get those deep cuts and all the way striated tris when thyere full of oil?
(phil)
Oil ::)
(http://completely-anabolic.com/uploads/phil-heath.jpg)
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this depends, a yates with no teared up arms would beat phil, yes.
with biceps and triceps tear, he shouldnt even compete imo.
and yes, the arnold classic flex might be enough for phil.
but im shocked how severly ppl underestimate phil.
i know he looks unimpressive offseason, and not the widest guy out there, but damn
well yes, without the arms and shoulders, hed be nothing.
but same would apply to levrone.if you take away shoulders and arms from levrone, whats left?a back thats worse than phils and inferior legs to phils.
btw, flexs chest wasnt the biggest out there either, was lacking compared to the rest of him.
ive said i think flex looks better,more pleasing to the eyes, but hed lose vs phil 9 times out of 10.
The point is this Phil isn't put together as we'll as levrone flex or Cormier
He is out of whack people just a Accept and embrace it because its his arms that throw him out of whack
If it was that his arms were less than his chest he wouldn't even make top 10
... It's a shallow way of thinking . Anyone who compares Phil to Shawn is nuts shown was complete and has a physique Phil is out of whack ... But again 90% of people have an arm fetish going on so that's all they see
Not me... He is not as complete as the guys from the 90's.
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He is out of whack people
::)
(http://fitnessfreak24.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Phil-Heath-posing.jpg)
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The point is this Phil isn't put together as we'll as Cormier
Hahaha
(http://www.builtreport.com/cormier/009.jpg)(http://forum.bodybuildingpro.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185&stc=1&d=1085697182)(http://www.bodybuilding.com/contest_media/6432/110/d/ph_backbi1222970073.jpg)
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::)
(http://fitnessfreak24.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Phil-Heath-posing.jpg)
So? That front double bi isn't all that.
Also someone said Phil has the best hamstrings.. what about Kai Greene? Do people forget that Kai practically won Mr O 2012 but that the judges awarded it to Phil?
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he would wipe the floor with cormier, just as dexter did and heath shits on him. Chris was good, he just never had any great shots per se. He could have came in, in much better shape. Look at phils hams in the RDB, diced beyond words, cormier would get anihilated from the back.
dex didn't wiped the floor with Cormier---the judges Arnold Classic) have a thing against Chris. He clearly was better than Jay the two times Jay beat him, and better than Dex. I think it stems from the Amho Hight situation or his drug/partying.
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(http://www.wallpaperswala.com/wp-content/gallery/phil-heath/phil_heath_training-in-gym.jpg)
Whats that guy doing hanging around?
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Hahaha
(http://www.builtreport.com/cormier/009.jpg)(http://forum.spam.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185&stc=1&d=1085697182)(http://www.bodybuilding.com/contest_media/6432/110/d/ph_backbi1222970073.jpg)
LOL...You're an asshole. Try some fair comparisons Che Heath.
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(http://www.wallpaperswala.com/wp-content/gallery/phil-heath/phil_heath_training-in-gym.jpg)
Whats that guy doing hanging around?
He's practicing his "John Romano stare of admiration". If you don't know what that is, check Flex Wheeler's "Hardbody" video, you'll see that even way back in 93, Romano was infatuated with the roundness and fullness of ebony man-muscles.
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true, but flex without oil would be lightweight nationals level.
but how does he get those deep cuts and all the way striated tris when thyere full of oil?
(phil)
I think not!
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i dont phil has any synthol at all for the record
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lol comparing Heath to this ::)
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lol comparing Heath to this ::)
I know, people here are retarded , comparing a two times Mr Olympia with a pink thong wearing tier 2 bodybuilder ,Oh brother ::)
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phils muscles look so soft even when flexed, this is what a body looks like built with 30lb dumbbells. there is just something missing. people just go nuts over him because his big proportions and arms, he looks real pretty though..
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I know, people here are retarded , comparing a two times Mr Olympia with a pink thong wearing tier 2 bodybuilder ,Oh brother ::)
Phil good Mr Olympia , worthy Mr Olympia compared to the guys he's competing with although Kai owned him in a lot of poses this year but please Phil is the best right now , has shit to do with guys of the who competed in the 90s which is why the sport is regressing not Phil's fault
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(http://www.wallpaperswala.com/wp-content/gallery/phil-heath/phil_heath_training-in-gym.jpg)
Whats that guy doing hanging around?
VLAD YUDIN. The Director of Generation Iron
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Phil good Mr Olympia , worthy Mr Olympia compared to the guys he's competing with although Kai owned him in a lot of poses this year but please Phil is the best right now , has shit to do with guys of the who competed in the 90s which is why the sport is regressing not Phil's fault
on this we agree....
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phils muscles look so soft even when flexed, this is what a body looks like built with 30lb dumbbells. there is just something missing. people just go nuts over him because his big proportions and arms, he looks real pretty though..
this...
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Perhaps Phil uses that PMMA stuff. Synthol usually changes the shape way more I think. Perhaps
PMMA results in a more natural look? Don't know anyone who used it.
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phils muscles look so soft even when flexed, this is what a body looks like built with 30lb dumbbells. there is just something missing. people just go nuts over him because his big proportions and arms, he looks real pretty though..
yeah, like those striations in his triceps look soft...
Chest has striations, legs, with separation and striations. And so on. I think it's the insulin that may have to do with it---remember he will have all those striations, but still have a full round moon face...no sunken in look.
And the person who said PMMA, no amount of PMMA is going to give you full triceps and biceps with striations...your arms look like Rich Piana, big but not cut.
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(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=69359.0;attach=481118;image)
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I'd rather look like Cormier than Coleman any day of the week.
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I'd rather look like Cormier than Coleman any day of the week.
Everyday look yes,
coleman was a freak
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i talked to chris today, hes doin well training alot of the amatuers at golds venice, and some pros
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i talked to chris today, hes doin well training alot of the amatuers at golds venice, and some pros
Is he still training Vida?
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true, but flex without oil would be lightweight nationals level.
but how does he get those deep cuts and all the way striated tris when thyere full of oil?
(phil)
the delts and arms oil thing goes back to Nasser(before it bacame obvious), Ruhl. Guys like Flex and Levrone also used but very little, Flex at his best used, but like Nasser it only became visible when he lost muscle and tried to make up for it with oil.
I'm not referring to just injecting synthol like the stupid kids or Valentino wanabees, I'm talking about like Dexter does it, lots of small injections deep int muscle, cuts are still visible, striations, vascularity, and no lumps.
Also off-season, lots of oil pre-workout, say you're training biceps, along with your other pre-workout shit, you also inject seo(site enhancement oil) into the biceps, this, with the pump stretches muscle fascia, and allows for new growth of muscle. Permanent. Obviously works best on a slin/gh protocol.
Such things started in the 90s, but have evolved to common place, nowdays everyone has huge delts and huge arms(few exceptions), and allows a guy like Heath who already had great arm genes to build maybe the freakiest arms ever.