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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Mr. Michael Moore on December 20, 2005, 12:17:56 PM
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Enjoy yourselves!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;)
http://www.waldemarguimaraes.com.br/videos/musculacaototal.wmv
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This was the world's greatest physique?
No wonder he was injured-going too heavy on those extensions. Also helping the other guy too early and too much on those forced reps.
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Well, Dorian used what worked best for HIM. So, those heavy extensions probably worked at his favor, because he had great thighs. If we were talking about Coleman and his seesawing training motion style reps, his defensors would be saying the same thing:"yeah, look at him, his style of training works at his favor, who are you to judge, anyway!!!" , so, I wouldn't be so critical about Dorian's extensions, cuz it surely worked for him.
Besides that, I much prefer to emulate Dorian's style of training than Coleman's. Dorian is pretty solid and in control with his repetitions, even when employing those forced reps.
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My own experience reflects Rons-reps in the 10-15 range minimizes injury potential of the sort Yates experienced training with low reps. Also hits the muscles better, IMO-maybe that's part of the reason Ron has much better muscle volume than Yates.
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I concur with you, regarding the rep range, and I think that was Yates' BIGGEST mistake. I truly believe that if he upped his reps, keeping the same training style, he would still be sitting on the throne, today.
Having said that, Ronnie is pretty smart to stay in this 10-15 rep range, but all the benefits and positive things about a higher rep range are all thrown to earth with his rep style employed, with that seesaw motion and all the momentum used from it.
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Eventually i'll have to try some of the giant sets Ron does-actually more than giant sets. A cycle of 5 consecutive sets of different weights, done 2-3 times with almost no rest! That has to shock the body into growth.
Part of the justifiable criticism of HIT seems to the use of weights that are too heavy, reps too low.
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Part of the justifiable criticism of HIT seems to the use of weights that are too heavy, reps too low.
I agree with that , too!!!! Dorian's style , with a more reasonably handable weight (higher reps) is the way to go, in my opinion.
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Does it ever occur to you clowns that some people respond best to low reps and heavy weight? I would say that most people train way too light and too infrequently.
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Obviously, Bozo. If you'd paid attention you'd have comprehended that i drew upon my own experience and avoided your mistake of blanket generalizations by making it an opinion, not a fact.
The best for most people, IMO-pay attention genius-IMO-is a middle ground of fairly heavy weights used for moderate 10-15 reps. There is a minority that can train heavy without injury, but that's a minority. A lucky few also respond better to low reps, though even there i suspect they'd probably do well with moderate reps.
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Why go so heavy on extensions? I always thought that was a refining exercise.
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Heavy extensions are one of the worst possible things to do-for optimal cuts the weight should be held and controlled at the top for a second, which can't be done if the weight's too heavy.
If you're trying to build size by going heavy, extensions are the wrong exercise to begin with. They're great for blowing out your knees, however. ;D
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Obviously, Bozo. If you'd paid attention you'd have comprehended that i drew upon my own experience and avoided your mistake of blanket generalizations by making it an opinion, not a fact.
The best for most people, IMO-pay attention genius-IMO-is a middle ground of fairly heavy weights used for moderate 10-15 reps. There is a minority that can train heavy without injury, but that's a minority. A lucky few also respond better to low reps, though even there i suspect they'd probably do well with moderate reps.
brian x is a know it all.
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Heavy extensions are one of the worst possible things to do-for optimal cuts the weight should be held and controlled at the top for a second, which can't be done if the weight's too heavy.
If you're trying to build size by going heavy, extensions are the wrong exercise to begin with. They're great for blowing out your knees, however. ;D
And YOUR huge showcase of Sandow trophies backs up how much smarter than Dorian you are.
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According to your logic, common sense is strictly the domain of Olympia winners? Yates is the one with a permanently f--- up tri, not me. Especially going heavy just prior to the show was dopey-even he admits that now. Winning the Olympia isn't rocket science.
Even a long-time HIT guy like Viator says volume and higher reps are better for refinement pre-contest.
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This was the world's greatest physique?
No wonder he was injured-going too heavy on those extensions. Also helping the other guy too early and too much on those forced reps.
what's extensions gotta do with him screwing up his triceps? and if heavy extensions is so dangerous, how many people can you name that injured themselves doing it? i've never heard of anyone. ever.
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Duh! That video's a good illustration of how Yates' trains every muscle. He's the only Olympia winner i know of who tore both tris and bis. To do that, keep the weights too heavy and the reps low, so you can barely feel it in the muscle and get a nice burn in the joints..real macho man stuff.
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yeah well bodybuilding is a dangerous occupation.
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Really? Let me know what comparable injuries Scott, Draper, Oliva or Ron suffered.
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suck balls haters. yates is still BIG and hard. dont hate the player............
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I really beleive heavy extensions are bad for the knees. Heavy quad work should be done with leg presses and squats. Heavy extensions will put your patellar tendon in a weird position. I use single leg light high rep extensions to rehab a bad knee once in a while. Never anything that i cant do for 20 reps. By the way dont you guys love how Dorian uses a frekin belt on those?
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Really? Let me know what comparable injuries Scott, Draper, Oliva or Ron suffered.
im sure your familiar with a number of bodybuilders that have various health issues, injuries, even death. as for avoiding heavy weight and low reps, ronnie coleman's 1-2 reps of squats and deadlifts is as low and heavy as it comes.
and if dorian ended his career a year early because he screwed up his triceps doing pushdowns, big deal.
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I really beleive heavy extensions are bad for the knees. Heavy quad work should be done with leg presses and squats. Heavy extensions will put your patellar tendon in a weird position. I use single leg light high rep extensions to rehab a bad knee once in a while. Never anything that i cant do for 20 reps. By the way dont you guys love how Dorian uses a frekin belt on those?
so what got you a bad knee to begin with?
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Enlighten yourself with some reading; Coleman maxes out very rarely, precisely so that he won't end up like Yates. Some of those maxes are done specifically for videos.
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I did not see him wearing a tank top
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I did not see him wearing a tank top
only 10 year older lou ferrigno does that
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only 10 year older lou ferrigno does that
Hey big Louie has no shame
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so what got you a bad knee to begin with?
Yes. Patella tracking issue.
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That video was from 2 years ago. You did notice the poster for the 2003 championships in the background. In two years a sea of change can happen. Please don't go dredging up old videos in the misguided hope of proving a point
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As for Dorian doing low reps, going too heavy and unsound training, I've watched Blood N guts and he does 3 sets of pushdowns (12,10,11 reps) 2 sets of skullcrushers (6 reps each) and finished it off with 1 set of one arm pushdowns (1 set per arm) for 8 reps (with a little help to squeeze at the last 1-2 reps)
That doesn't come across to me as going overboard. Injuries can happen for a number of reasons.
While he does indeed go heavy on pushdowns, he doesn't go low in reps. And he does put some weight on the bar doing skullcrushers, but not more than for example Marcus Ruhl's girlfriend use (and she works the same reprange)
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That being said, obviously the risk of injury is greater when you work heavy weights, low reps and close to a competition. But with Dorian, he probably couldn't have done it any other way.
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As for Dorian doing low reps, going too heavy and unsound training, I've watched Blood N guts and he does 3 sets of pushdowns (12,10,11 reps) 2 sets of skullcrushers (6 reps each) and finished it off with 1 set of one arm pushdowns (1 set per arm) for 8 reps (with a little help to squeeze at the last 1-2 reps)
That doesn't come across to me as going overboard. Injuries can happen for a number of reasons.
Exactly; Lee Priest is famous for his 5 sets of 6-8 reps style of training. I don't see his body riddled with injuries, and who's going to tell me he could be 'better' with 12-15 reps?
Dorian's form is as good as anyone's in the history of the sport; while overloading his body pre-Olympias probably didn't do him any favours, chances are with ANY training style (assuming he ultimately lifted as or near to as heavy) he would have injured himself as his body was just built that way. In A Warrior's Story he concludes that were his form not as strict, he'd have injured himself earlier and more severely.
Yates' injuries and cause (once he'd established his HIT-based methodology):
March 7, 1994 - injured ligament on the rotator cuff in left shoulder doing *warm-up set* of decline presses
April, 1994 - tore vastus muscle in left thigh
July 12, 1994 - torn bicep doing 405-pound barbell rows
June, 1997 - small tear in right thigh doing leg extensions while suffering from mysterious illness; later, turned out to be tear in the wall of his stomach from taking too much aspirin
October, 1997 - tears left tricep doing pullover-and-press
If you look at the bulking exercises he did, most of them were relatively 'safe' - Smith Machine to the front shoulder presses, hack squates, leg presses, Smith Machine squats, Incline bench press, only a couple of sets of deads (after being *thoroughly* warmed up), etc.
I think the fair conclusion is he both pushed it and was plain fucking unlucky.
Why all the hate on Dorian, Pumpster? No matter what the thread is, if he's mentioned you pop up and start taking shots at the guy. Wait... you're not a Shawn Ray alias are you!? :D
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Who's the cock that posted this? I saw this on MM like 2 years ago
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how can anyone rag on dorians style of training...
get a clue:
he won 6 fucking olympias jackasses!
>:(
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My own experience reflects Rons-reps in the 10-15 range minimizes injury potential of the sort Yates experienced training with low reps. Also hits the muscles better, IMO-maybe that's part of the reason Ron has much better muscle volume than Yates.
that's why dorian is thicker and harder. :P
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In the vidio you see that Dorian still has a lot of muscle.I think hes where most retired pros want to be.
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Who's the cock that posted this? I saw this on MM like 2 years ago
It was me, dipshit, thank you!!!! And just in case you're not aware, you're not the only one in the world, and one must conclude that there's a good chance that a lot of people didn't get the chance to watch the video, so that's why it's here, POSTED BY ME! ;)
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It was me, dipshit, thank you!!!! And just in case you're not aware, you're not the only one in the world, and one must conclude that there's a good chance that a lot of people didn't get the chance to watch the video, so that's why it's here, POSTED BY ME! ;)
Well why don't you put up that the video wasn't shot yesterday.
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Why go so heavy on extensions? I always thought that was a refining exercise.
There is no such thing as a "refining" exercise. your muscles contract under tension. period.
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What the hell does Yates know about training? That fag Yates was only the best bodybuilder in the world from '92-'97....6 years in a row HAH!!! Pathetic. And he had the nerve to get injured while training to be the best in the world......that just says he was poorly disciplined, poorly informed and generally didn't know what in the hell he was doing. And that clip of him performing leg extensions....I'm surprised both thighs didn't rip in that moment...his form was lousy and I'm sure he had at least 2000 lbs. moving up and down....moron. Then he had the nerve to spot that guy on leg extensions and he did it all wrong. Everyone knows that Ronnie Coleman's way is the only way to train.
MOS
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Dorian still looks huge
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Doz is the best - PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't care what other people say, neither if I hurt the Colemania members' feelings.
Regardless of the YEAR OF THE VID (Broadstreetsucker ;)), it's a testment to the man and to prove once and for all that he kept the greatest amount of muscle mass a pro bb should keep in his retirement. Dorian surely puts into shame Tom Prince, Flex Wheeler, and a big crop of other retired bbdrs. And if I do say so myself, Yates can put in to shame a lot of the CURRENT PROS STILL COMPETING. :o
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Doz is the best - PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't care what other people say, neither if I hurt the Colemania members' feelings.
Regardless of the YEAR OF THE VID (Broadstreetsucker ;)), it's a testment to the man and to prove once and for all that he kept the greatest amount of muscle mass a pro bb should keep in his retirement. Dorian surely puts into shame Tom Prince, Flex Wheeler, and a big crop of other retired bbdrs. And if I do say so myself, Yates can put in to shame a lot of the CURRENT PROS STILL COMPETING. :o
Dorian was great and I truly admire his work ethic but I would say a prime Flex put any bodybuilder to shame. Dorian had a great big cow belly and small arms.
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Damn...Dorian's back still could kill just about anyone on today's stage. Check out those forearms they are huge. He gotta be weighing about 240lbs in his mid 40s and still in great shape. You gotta respect the guy because even if he trained too hard sometimes and got injured, the focus and drive is what got him those "6 good reasons" why he was a great Mr Olympia. If Chris Cormier with his genetics and Dorian's training could have made it to England, we could have been looking at a different Mr. Olympia this year.
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Damn...Dorian's back still could kill just about anyone on today's stage. Check out those forearms they are huge. He gotta be weighing about 240lbs in his mid 40s and still in great shape. You gotta respect the guy because even if he trained too hard sometimes and got injured, the focus and drive is what got him those "6 good reasons" why he was a great Mr Olympia. If Chris Cormier with his genetics and Dorian's training could have made it to England, we could have been looking at a different Mr. Olympia this year.
Chris should have been training with Dorain from the get-go, but even with Dorians help its up to Chris. Starting with him this late wouldn't do THAT much.
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Wow that's awesome. He's intense, but not as intense as me. Which worries me since you guys are talking about that being the likely cause of his injuries. But I've read that your final, failing reps are actually the safest. So I go all out. If I were Dorian doing those leg extensions I would have done at least 4 more reps, until my training partner is doing rows with my feet!
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Enlighten yourself with some reading; Coleman maxes out very rarely, precisely so that he won't end up like Yates. Some of those maxes are done specifically for videos.
Pump ron has tears. He is on the way to end up like Yates. Lets not act like Ronnie is not going to show signs of his Gh abuse when he retires. That gut is not going to just go away when he drop 50 lbs of muscle. Doz looks pretty good to me compared to the former Mr O's when they stopped competing.
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Good thing Dorian was wearing that Valeo belt during those leg extensions ::)
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I really beleive heavy extensions are bad for the knees. Heavy quad work should be done with leg presses and squats. Heavy extensions will put your patellar tendon in a weird position. I use single leg light high rep extensions to rehab a bad knee once in a while. Never anything that i cant do for 20 reps. By the way dont you guys love how Dorian uses a frekin belt on those?
100% truth
for those "doubters" the rooms/ceillings/doorways are very small in england, or wherever there at... maybe thats making dorian "look" bigger...
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Pump ron has tears. He is on the way to end up like Yates. Lets not act like Ronnie is not going to show signs of his Gh abuse when he retires. That gut is not going to just go away when he drop 50 lbs of muscle. Doz looks pretty good to me compared to the former Mr O's when they stopped competing.
I agree, 88. for such a recent retired competitor he doesn't look that bad.
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Great clip.
As far as the injuries, it seems like he got them in the bodyparts where I recall it looking a bit hazardous in B&G - biceps and triceps.
The seated biceps curls in B&G always looked like an injury waiting to happen.
Not so with most of his excersises, eg benchpress, deadlift, pullover, HStrength Chest machine.
Don't remember how he teared his biceps, if it was when doing reverse grip BB rows or some biceps excersise.
In any case, I think Yates, as good form he had on most excersises, was sloppy on a few. And that is what injured him.
Would be interesting to see his own take.
BTW, nice clip, and he's fcuking big today. Looks at least 242.
YIP
Zack
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Heavy extensions are one of the worst possible things to do-for optimal cuts the weight should be held and controlled at the top for a second, which can't be done if the weight's too heavy.
If you're trying to build size by going heavy, extensions are the wrong exercise to begin with. They're great for blowing out your knees, however. ;D
you are wrong I go up to 300 lbs on the cybex leg extensions and have never had knee problems
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Someone sound the lunk alarm this is a no grunt zone ::)
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you are wrong I go up to 300 lbs on the cybex leg extensions and have never had knee problems
ummmm... 50 cent got shot 9 times twice in the face... he's huge and ripped now...
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I concur with you, regarding the rep range, and I think that was Yates' BIGGEST mistake. I truly believe that if he upped his reps, keeping the same training style, he would still be sitting on the throne, today.
Having said that, Ronnie is pretty smart to stay in this 10-15 rep range, but all the benefits and positive things about a higher rep range are all thrown to earth with his rep style employed, with that seesaw motion and all the momentum used from it.
dorian did start going for more reps after the injuries. he had to and has acknowledged this.
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Does it ever occur to you clowns that some people respond best to low reps and heavy weight? I would say that most people train way too light and too infrequently.
it is going to depend on muscle fiber type. yates obviously is loaded with the white fibers.
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&mode=related&search= .... this MV should get its own thread... this guys been saying "yeah buddy" "light weight baby"everyday for 10 years... how small is his waist here... SUPERHERO
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That video was from 2 years ago. You did notice the poster for the 2003 championships in the background. In two years a sea of change can happen. Please don't go dredging up old videos in the misguided hope of proving a point
you beat me to it. yes the vid is a couple years old, but the recent pics of yates show he is still holding a decent amount of mass (reportedly he has had some shoulder surgery or something, onlyme- i think you had info on this?)
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monster terrorist sounding brazilian fans overly concerned with a pair of shoes in the closet
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monster terrorist sounding brazilian fans overly concerned with a pair of shoes in the closet
You're a plain ignorant ass !! For starters, the 'brazilian terrorist', in your own words, worked for about 10 years in Temple Gym as an instructor and personal trainer, and he's a PERSONAL FRIEND to both Yates and Leroy Davis. He 's friends to Tommi Thordvieldsen and Nasser el Sombaty, and has brought both of them to Brazil, and Ernie Taylor, too. Not too shabby, eh?! His name is Waldemar Guimaraes, and he's one of the most respected guys in bodybuilding in Brazil. He trains the best athletes here in bodybuilding AND MMA, including a 'nobody' called Wanderlei Silva, have you ever heard of him, asshole?
Who the hell do you know?
So quit your little prejudice antics towards people that you have no fucking clue about, take your foot off of your mouth and try to be a gentleman the next time.
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You're a plain ignorant ass !! For starters, the 'brazilian terrorist', in your own words, worked for about 10 years in Temple Gym as an instructor and personal trainer, and he's a PERSONAL FRIEND to both Yates and Leroy Davis. He 's friends to Tommi Thordvieldsen and Nasser el Sombaty, and has brought both of them to Brazil, and Ernie Taylor, too. Not too shabby, eh?! His name is Waldemar Guimaraes, and he's one of the most respected guys in bodybuilding in Brazil. He trains the best athletes here in bodybuilding AND MMA, including a 'nobody' called Wanderlei Silva, have you ever heard of him, asshole?
Who the hell do you know?
So quit your little prejudice antics towards people that you have no fucking clue about, take your foot off of your mouth and try to be a gentleman the next time.
kiwi that should warrant me rising to the top 5 in "most likely to induce a meltdown," you know its true
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Heavy extensions are one of the worst possible things to do-for optimal cuts the weight should be held and controlled at the top for a second, which can't be done if the weight's too heavy.
There is no such thing as training for "cuts".
Your credibility = 0
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kiwi that should warrant me rising to the top 5 in "most likely to induce a meltdown," you know its true
I couldn't expect otherwise from you......."the meltdown" shit, of course.......yeah right! ::)
Asshole...... :-\
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I couldn't expect otherwise from you......."the meltdown" shit, of course.......yeah right! ::)
Asshole...... :-\
and again
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and again
again..you talked before thinking...now go do your homework first then act more civilized...
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kiwi that should warrant me rising to the top 5 in "most likely to induce a meltdown," you know its true
Point noted. I agree. I can't be f*cked looking for that thread, but please take my acknowledgement here as a substitute Sir William 8)
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and again
Oh, brother......... :-\
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Good thing Dorian was wearing that Valeo belt during those leg extensions ::)
Yes you E mail him and tell him where he went wrong in the past I'm sure with your advice he'll come out of retirement and win back the Olympia.
ta ta