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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Psychopath on June 01, 2013, 07:07:43 AM
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Was wondering what you guys do for your back?
I always loved deadlifting because i'm good at it, but i'm starting to think i can get the same results if not better with machine work that isolate the back, where you can squeeze and hold with lighter weights.
I also found that the classic lifts perpetuate muscle imbalance, since a straight bar is used.
Remember reading Bulsemo's posts on training, where he mainly goes for light weights and pump work and that gets him the best results.
I love training, but i'm starting to lose enthusiasm for lifts like squats and deads. Too much weight is being handled, making me feel like complete shit for days.
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squats yes,deads not really..
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I don't deadlift heavy usually. I focus on squats. If you squat 200kg then you won't deadlift less than 200kg. Heavy deadlifts wreck lower back (I mean muscles) and hence destroy your regeneration. If you have to do deadlifts then:
- don't lower the bar, just fucking drop it on the floor, focus only on eccentric movement
- do clean pulls, clean deadlifts, snatch pulls and so on instead of deadlifts
- focus on heavy squats without belt
There's simply no amount of gear that would allow me to squat >3 times a week and keep my heavy deadlifts in. Fuck, even 1 squat session is hard when I add deads :/
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T-Bars. Hammer machines.
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You could develop a fantastic physique using nothing but machines. Machines get a bad rap for some reason.
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You could develop a fantastic physique using nothing but machines. Machines get a bad rap for some reason.
yes, there really is no difference and in some cases machines incite better muscle recruitement due to reduction in cheating and leverage, momentum.
Certain machines like a pullover machine just feel better then the freeweight counter part.
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You could develop a fantastic physique using nothing but machines. Machines get a bad rap for some reason.
x2..your muscle doesnt know whether you're using machine or free weighs,its all about loads and contraction/stretch of your muscle
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most ifbb pros agree deadlifts are pointless
rack pulls useful
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real men bench
fuck legs
(http://70sbig.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Doug-Young1-287x399.jpg)
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I don't deadlift heavy usually. I focus on squats. If you squat 200kg then you won't deadlift less than 200kg. Heavy deadlifts wreck lower back (I mean muscles) and hence destroy your regeneration. If you have to do deadlifts then:
- don't lower the bar, just fucking drop it on the floor, focus only on eccentric movement
- do clean pulls, clean deadlifts, snatch pulls and so on instead of deadlifts
- focus on heavy squats without belt
There's simply no amount of gear that would allow me to squat >3 times a week and keep my heavy deadlifts in. Fuck, even 1 squat session is hard when I add deads :/
amen.
squat and dead heavy was ok for me when i was young, after 28/30 y.o my lower just couldn't support the stress.
deadlift heavy till failure screw the recovery for the squat.
i'm doing askold surovetsky programm, so i'm doing 2 squat- 1 dead and the following week/ 2 dead - 1 squat, even with a honest amount of "supp" it's hell.
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Yes. Everyone's always looking for an easy shortcut.
Man the fuck up.
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Flip some heavy tires on a regular base, that's about it.
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Yes. Everyone's always looking for an easy shortcut.
Man the fuck up.
x2
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squats and deadlifts are beneficial for bottoms
bench press and curls to get the women
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I mean lower back and traps, posterior chain activation is important but for a big back chins and rows add way more mass to the lats, teres minor/major, rear delts.
Stretching results in more fiber recruitment, so any exercise that contains potentially extreme rom will be the best bet.
Deads are more for strength and functional strength imo, they are just so taxing with squats on the CNS that it makes recovery so hard.
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Q: Are squats and deadlifts necessary?
A: No. You can always go through life small and weak.
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Was wondering what you guys do for your back?
I always loved deadlifting because i'm good at it, but i'm starting to think i can get the same results if not better with machine work that isolate the back, where you can squeeze and hold with lighter weights.
I also found that the classic lifts perpetuate muscle imbalance, since a straight bar is used.
Remember reading Bulsemo's posts on training, where he mainly goes for light weights and pump work and that gets him the best results.
I love training, but i'm starting to lose enthusiasm for lifts like squats and deads. Too much weight is being handled, making me feel like complete shit for days.
with leverage equipment, you can hit the quads and gluts, just as good as squats. are you a sponsored bber or professional athlete? as far as deads, again, what's the point, if you are just staying in shape? save your lower back and knees. add bench to the list also. another exercise good for a nice muscle tear.
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I mean lower back and traps, posterior chain activation is important but for a big back chins and rows add way more mass to the lats, teres minor/major, rear delts.
Stretching results in more fiber recruitment, so any exercise that contains potentially extreme rom will be the best bet.
Deads are more for strength and functional strength imo, they are just so taxing with squats on the CNS that it makes recovery so hard.
"CNS taxing" is BS. CNS is NEVER a bottleneck in recovery, it's always muscles. For whatever reason my body recovers very slowly after heavy deads. It's of course somewhat better with 1-3 reps with 5 reps it's almost unbearable.
CNS will adapt to almost anything, that's why olympic lifters or other athletes that train explosive movements train every day, several times per day.
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nah man, cns will take huge and severe hits on very low calorie diet with high voume training.
if one does that for 2 weeks with no day off,the cns will be entirely shot.
too many factors.
no it won't, cns has nothing to do with it.
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Id consider squats essential. Deadlifts important but not as much so.
I prefer a lighter weight on deads with a really slow negative. Squats the same really slow all the way down with a pause to emphasize quads.
Very different to how a powerlifter would lift
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(http://www.lolandsmile.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/He-Skip-Leg-Day.jpg)
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squats importance: 90%
deadlift importance: 30%
i've trained with a couple of top amateur bodybuilders for a while, and only saw them doing deads like twice a month, some weren't doing them at all..
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squats importance: 90%
deadlift importance: 30%
i've trained with a couple of top amateur bodybuilders for a while, and only saw them doing deads like twice a month, some weren't doing them at all..
That's why they're amateurs. ;)
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That's why they're amateurs. ;)
Power cleans are probably better than deadlifts.
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I share the very unpopular belief here that ATG squats and controlled deadlifts should be 50% of my weeks training. They have been crucial to my bodybuilding.
Squats, for obvious reasons.
Deads, because I've added so much thickness to my entire posterior chain that I was missing by not doing them.
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That's why they're amateurs. ;)
What about olympic lifters? They don't deadlift at all and prolly outlift you in deadlift by a mile. There are many powerlifters that don't do heavy deads at all except from the meet and have CRAZY deadlift.
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both make you big all over creates the distinction between complete big physique .. to and arm and ab trainer...
do them
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both make you big all over creates the distinction between complete big physique .. to and arm and ab trainer...
do them
squats I agree with, I deaded for years, getting up to close to 600 (6 45's a side) for a single. I did them twice a week for years on end. I gained more mass on my back when I started more rowing exercises.
I just find the weight distribution of deads to great, your hams take a lot of stress, lower back, glutes etc.. for pure hypertrophy it doesn't make much sense.
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What about olympic lifters? They don't deadlift at all and prolly outlift you in deadlift by a mile. There are many powerlifters that don't do heavy deads at all except from the meet and have CRAZY deadlift.
Every pler I know does some variation, maybe not heavy, but they all practice the move.
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squats I agree with, I deaded for years, getting up to close to 600 (6 45's a side) for a single. I did them twice a week for years on end. I gained more mass on my back when I started more rowing exercises.
I just find the weight distribution of deads to great, your hams take a lot of stress, lower back, glutes etc.. for pure hypertrophy it doesn't make much sense.
Personally when I started to get stron on dreads past 500 and doing 600 I scaled back on frequency most time now 2 times a month... Or alternating weeks number one back excersise for traps and rhomboidal and overall back
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y225/lucas78/casual_zpsd0c8c6c2.jpg)
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squats yes,deads not really..
Agree with this!
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I don't do traditional deadlifts any more since I hurt my back, Romanian dls are great, so are shrug bar or rack deads for higher reps.
Squats work better than anything else for my legs but they can hurt sometimes.
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I substitute squats for leg presses, but deadlifts are priceless.....
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coincidentally, i went to the gym after reading this thread and included 5 sets of deads in my back workout today lol,,
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lol at thread
(http://www.synergy-athletics.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/chicken-legs1.jpg)
imo to get any sort of leg development squats are a must.
Deads? Not so much but i love them. However whenever i cut, its too taxing so i turn to rows, pulldowns, isolation routines, etc... mostly. Deads are a must for building a foundation in my opinion however, most pros have stuck to rows and heavy rows work just as well. Rack pulls too.
Deads hit legs and glutes too hence, rack pulls and rows are mostly back and therefore more back focused.
That's my two cents
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i dont go heavy on squats or deadlift usually 2 plates for 20+ reps
you can tell from there back who does and doesnt not that big of difference
for me squats are essential because thats the only way my legs get sore
since i switched to boxing training doing bodyweight squats and lunges for 3mins 1mins rest
squats aint shit lol
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What about olympic lifters? They don't deadlift at all and prolly outlift you in deadlift by a mile. There are many powerlifters that don't do heavy deads at all except from the meet and have CRAZY deadlift.
Many Olympic lifters deadlift with a double over hand grip along with high pulls.
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I would say squats are necessary by virtue of that they are far more effective than any other exercise for that muscle group.
I love deads but I doubt their importance for bodybuilders who want to "look strong".
Many people lift them wrong (including myself for a very very long time) and destroy their lower backs (possibly irrevocably) making them a focal point of utter dread at the weekly experience of once again, experiencing lower back pain from doing them. My form is corrected, but the destruction remains - it is never easy for me to deadlift.
Worse still, my personal experience is that if I do powerlifting type rep ranges - I do not get sore hamstrings at all, but with a nuked lower back, if I do higher rep ranges, my lower back/grip/form eventually can't handle it and it all goes to shit.
I still do them, naturally - because I'm not one of the many people here who want to "look strong" - but I can understand why some wouldn't want to do them - they are difficult and a real test of manliness.
No excuses on squats, though. I can leg press more than my training partner who can squat probably a good 25% more than me - guess who has the larger legs?
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Well nothing is necessary. If you want to be a little bitch or a "bodybuilder".
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I would say squats are necessary by virtue of that they are far more effective than any other exercise for that muscle group.
I love deads but I doubt their importance for bodybuilders who want to "look strong".
Many people lift them wrong (including myself for a very very long time) and destroy their lower backs (possibly irrevocably) making them a focal point of utter dread at the weekly experience of once again, experiencing lower back pain from doing them. My form is corrected, but the destruction remains - it is never easy for me to deadlift.
Worse still, my personal experience is that if I do powerlifting type rep ranges - I do not get sore hamstrings at all, but with a nuked lower back, if I do higher rep ranges, my lower back/grip/form eventually can't handle it and it all goes to shit.
I still do them, naturally - because I'm not one of the many people here who want to "look strong" - but I can understand why some wouldn't want to do them - they are difficult and a real test of manliness.
No excuses on squats, though. I can leg press more than my training partner who can squat probably a good 25% more than me - guess who has the larger legs?
Good post, I guess it all depends what you want to achieve in the gym, I think that strength and size are two different things myself, I'm sure we've all seen people in the gym who have a very impressive physique but struggle with 225 on the bench press, I know I have, usually this is the same person who will frown when you are deadlifting and say to his friend that "it's a useless exercise" while he stares at himself in the mirror, wears knee wraps and wraps a towel around a bar when squatting 250, on the flip side I've seen guys walk in and squat over 400lbs and they look like they never touched a weight in there life so I would say that strength and size don't always go hand in hand.
I like deadlifting because it makes me feel good, thats why I do it, same goes for squat and bench, I like setting a goal and trying to reach it, whether it's building up to a 300lbs squat or a 225 bench press.
Also, I believe there is a better camaraderie within the powerlifting/strongman community, bodybuilders can be a bit narcissistic, gym rats anyway (not all, some are really cool and I respect their discipline for dieting) the only pro bodybuilder I met was Tommi Thorvildsen in Harolds Gym in Oslo in 2006 and he was a real gent, very nice guy.
Here is a pic of me pulling 530 @ 175BW, I started deadlifting 10 years ago, I think my first pull was 135 @ 145BW
I have never had a single back issue from deadlifting except the occasional tightness, only time I get pain in when I stop deadlifting and my spinal erectors get a bit soft.
Regards.
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for bodybuilding ?
for overall health?
Deads and Squats are very important for overall health. fuck crossfit. ... for bodybuilding? who cares.
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No, you don't have to deadlift to get a strong back, if that is your goal.
Squats yes. Deadlift, no.
http://www.liftinglarge.com/The-No-Deadlift-Deadlift-Program_ep_51-1.html
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i never understood this "deadlifts are taxing" but you can easily squat every day thinking
i used to do deadlifts 4x (2x straight-leg, 2x normal) a week and squats 2x
4 sets of high reps for deads, 9 sets of high reps for squats
never felt like deadlifts were particularly "more stressful" than any other lift
then again, i never felt deads in my lower back even once and for a long time never felt squats in my quads, so i'm probably just fucked up somehow, lol
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i never understood this "deadlifts are taxing" but you can easily squat every day thinking
i used to do deadlifts 4x (2x straight-leg, 2x normal) a week and squats 2x
4 sets of high reps for deads, 9 sets of high reps for squats
never felt like deadlifts were particularly "more stressful" than any other lift
then again, i never felt deads in my lower back even once and for a long time never felt squats in my quads, so i'm probably just fucked up somehow, lol
Deadlifts 4 x a week! you are fucked up!
Just kidding ;D
For me squats are a lot more taxing, I do them every monday when I'm fresh, 10 sets (8 warm up 2 work sets)
and 2 sets of paused squats, assistance work afterward, I don't deadlift until friday, I need the 3 days in between
to recover.
P.S. Your leg looks huge in your avatar!
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Squats yes. Deadlift, no.
I agree
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If you want to train like a man then dead and squat. If you just want cosmetic muscles then take the easy way out.
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20 year old back injury that I babied for WAY too long keeps me from doing either at weights that would make me happy. I am too fucking
stupid stubborn to do my strength rehab correctly and kinda hop from one tweak to the next. I can be an idiot at times.
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with leverage equipment, you can hit the quads and gluts, just as good as squats. are you a sponsored bber or professional athlete? as far as deads, again, what's the point, if you are just staying in shape? save your lower back and knees. add bench to the list also. another exercise good for a nice muscle tear.
Agreed. Especially for people using steroids, the longer and more you bench regularly, the more likely you are to get a pec tear.
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I think you can Substitute squats and Deads for other lifts and still get a good workout... however i think the Deadlift and squat are natural movements that really benefit the whole Body and if you can Deadlift heavy and squat 1x a week then itīs more than enough. I am not one of the big Boys on here but what i have built on my Frame is from Squats,Deadlifts,Bench press,Parallel Bar Dips. I use more exercises but if i wanted to get as big as my Genetics will allow...this is all i would do.
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HOLY FUCKING SHIT, FINE.
I WILL HONOUR MY MANHOOD BY SQUATS AND DEADS.
THANK YOU ALL FOR REMINDING ME I HAVE DICK N BALLS.
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HOLY FUCKING SHIT, FINE.
I WILL HONOUR MY MANHOOD BY SQUATS AND DEADS.
THANK YOU ALL FOR REMINDING ME I HAVE DICK N BALLS.
;D
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HOLY FUCKING SHIT, FINE.
I WILL HONOUR MY MANHOOD BY SQUATS AND DEADS.
THANK YOU ALL FOR REMINDING ME I HAVE DICK N BALLS.
paradoxically, deads and squats develop the ass and make it ripe for doggy style pounding
that's why in prison people who wanna keep their integrity only bench press
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If you want to train like a man then dead and squat. If you just want cosmetic muscles then take the easy way out.
this...
most guys just go to the gym to trains arms ..and bench...
alot ofpeople think once you have big arms ..thats equates to a good physique...
wrong...
if you notice most guys withh hit free wifts for arms on back day... isnt all machines pull downs..
the only reason some guys have a semi decent chest is because everyone benches..