Author Topic: Are deads and squats necessary?  (Read 9957 times)

deceiver

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Re: Are deads and squats necessary?
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2013, 11:24:29 AM »
That's why they're amateurs. ;)

What about olympic lifters? They don't deadlift at all and prolly outlift you in deadlift by a mile. There are many powerlifters that don't do heavy deads at all except from the meet and have CRAZY deadlift.

mesmorph78

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Re: Are deads and squats necessary?
« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2013, 11:30:24 AM »
both make you big all over creates the distinction between complete big physique .. to and arm and ab trainer...
do them
choice is an illusion

Necrosis

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Re: Are deads and squats necessary?
« Reply #27 on: June 01, 2013, 12:22:34 PM »
both make you big all over creates the distinction between complete big physique .. to and arm and ab trainer...
do them


squats I agree with, I deaded for years, getting up to close to 600 (6 45's a side) for a single. I did them twice a week for years on end. I gained more mass on my back when I started more rowing exercises.

I just find the weight distribution of deads to great, your hams take a lot of stress, lower back, glutes etc.. for pure hypertrophy it doesn't make much sense.

chaos

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Re: Are deads and squats necessary?
« Reply #28 on: June 01, 2013, 12:40:15 PM »
What about olympic lifters? They don't deadlift at all and prolly outlift you in deadlift by a mile. There are many powerlifters that don't do heavy deads at all except from the meet and have CRAZY deadlift.
Every pler I know does some variation, maybe not heavy, but they all practice the move.
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

mesmorph78

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Re: Are deads and squats necessary?
« Reply #29 on: June 01, 2013, 12:43:30 PM »
squats I agree with, I deaded for years, getting up to close to 600 (6 45's a side) for a single. I did them twice a week for years on end. I gained more mass on my back when I started more rowing exercises.

I just find the weight distribution of deads to great, your hams take a lot of stress, lower back, glutes etc.. for pure hypertrophy it doesn't make much sense.
Personally when I started to get stron on dreads past 500 and doing 600 I scaled back on frequency most time now 2 times a month... Or alternating weeks number one back excersise for traps and rhomboidal and overall back


choice is an illusion

Ronnie Rep

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Re: Are deads and squats necessary?
« Reply #30 on: June 01, 2013, 12:52:25 PM »
squats yes,deads not really..
Agree with this!

Mawse

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Re: Are deads and squats necessary?
« Reply #31 on: June 01, 2013, 03:18:21 PM »
I don't do traditional deadlifts any more since I hurt my back, Romanian dls are great, so are shrug bar or rack deads for higher reps.

Squats work better than anything else for my legs but they can hurt sometimes.

Dr Dutch

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Re: Are deads and squats necessary?
« Reply #32 on: June 01, 2013, 03:21:23 PM »
I substitute squats for leg presses, but deadlifts are priceless.....

Igor90

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Re: Are deads and squats necessary?
« Reply #33 on: June 01, 2013, 03:31:35 PM »
coincidentally, i went to the gym after reading this thread and included 5 sets of deads in my back workout today lol,,

a_ahmed

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Re: Are deads and squats necessary?
« Reply #34 on: June 01, 2013, 03:33:07 PM »
lol at thread



imo to get any sort of leg development squats are a must.

Deads? Not so much but i love them. However whenever i cut, its too taxing so i turn to rows, pulldowns, isolation routines, etc... mostly. Deads are a must for building a foundation in my opinion however, most pros have stuck to rows and heavy rows work just as well. Rack pulls too.

Deads hit legs and glutes too hence, rack pulls and rows are mostly back and therefore more back focused.

That's my two cents

mame09

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Re: Are deads and squats necessary?
« Reply #35 on: June 01, 2013, 03:43:42 PM »
i dont go heavy on squats or deadlift usually 2 plates for 20+ reps

you can tell from there back who does and doesnt not that big of difference

for me squats are essential because thats the only way my legs get sore

since i switched to boxing training doing bodyweight squats and lunges for 3mins 1mins rest

squats aint shit lol


oldtimer1

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Re: Are deads and squats necessary?
« Reply #36 on: June 01, 2013, 06:51:27 PM »
What about olympic lifters? They don't deadlift at all and prolly outlift you in deadlift by a mile. There are many powerlifters that don't do heavy deads at all except from the meet and have CRAZY deadlift.
Many Olympic lifters deadlift with a double over hand grip along with high pulls.


rocket

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Re: Are deads and squats necessary?
« Reply #37 on: June 01, 2013, 07:45:02 PM »
I would say squats are necessary by virtue of that they are far more effective than any other exercise for that muscle group.

I love deads but I doubt their importance for bodybuilders who want to "look strong". 

Many people lift them wrong (including myself for a very very long time) and destroy their lower backs (possibly irrevocably) making them a focal point of utter dread at the weekly experience of once again, experiencing lower back pain from doing them.  My form is corrected, but the destruction remains - it is never easy for me to deadlift. 

Worse still, my personal experience is that if I do powerlifting type rep ranges - I do not get sore hamstrings at all, but with a nuked lower back, if I do higher rep ranges, my lower back/grip/form eventually can't handle it and it all goes to shit.

I still do them, naturally - because I'm not one of the many people here who want to "look strong" - but I can understand why some wouldn't want to do them - they are difficult and a real test of manliness.

No excuses on squats, though.  I can leg press more than my training partner who can squat probably a good 25% more than me - guess who has the larger legs?



Obvious Gimmick

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Re: Are deads and squats necessary?
« Reply #38 on: June 01, 2013, 07:49:21 PM »
Well nothing is necessary. If you want to be a little bitch or a "bodybuilder".

Whiskey

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Re: Are deads and squats necessary?
« Reply #39 on: June 01, 2013, 09:16:28 PM »
I would say squats are necessary by virtue of that they are far more effective than any other exercise for that muscle group.

I love deads but I doubt their importance for bodybuilders who want to "look strong". 

Many people lift them wrong (including myself for a very very long time) and destroy their lower backs (possibly irrevocably) making them a focal point of utter dread at the weekly experience of once again, experiencing lower back pain from doing them.  My form is corrected, but the destruction remains - it is never easy for me to deadlift. 

Worse still, my personal experience is that if I do powerlifting type rep ranges - I do not get sore hamstrings at all, but with a nuked lower back, if I do higher rep ranges, my lower back/grip/form eventually can't handle it and it all goes to shit.

I still do them, naturally - because I'm not one of the many people here who want to "look strong" - but I can understand why some wouldn't want to do them - they are difficult and a real test of manliness.

No excuses on squats, though.  I can leg press more than my training partner who can squat probably a good 25% more than me - guess who has the larger legs?




Good post, I guess it all depends what you want to achieve in the gym, I think that strength and size are two different things myself, I'm sure we've all seen people in the gym who have a very impressive physique but struggle with 225 on the bench press, I know I have, usually this is the same person who will frown when you are deadlifting and say to his friend that "it's a useless exercise" while he stares at himself in the mirror, wears knee wraps and wraps a towel around a bar when squatting 250, on the flip side I've seen guys walk in and squat over 400lbs and they look like they never touched a weight in there life so I would say that strength and size don't always go hand in hand.

I like deadlifting because it makes me feel good, thats why I do it, same goes for squat and bench, I like setting a goal and trying to reach it, whether it's building up to a 300lbs squat or a 225 bench press.

Also, I believe there is a better camaraderie within the powerlifting/strongman community, bodybuilders can be a bit narcissistic, gym rats anyway (not all, some are really cool and I respect their discipline for dieting) the only pro bodybuilder I met was Tommi Thorvildsen in Harolds Gym in Oslo in 2006 and he was a real gent, very nice guy.

Here is a pic of me pulling 530 @ 175BW, I started deadlifting 10 years ago, I think my first pull was 135 @ 145BW

I have never had a single back issue from deadlifting except the occasional tightness, only time I get pain in when I stop deadlifting and my spinal erectors get a bit soft.

Regards.

MB_722

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Re: Are deads and squats necessary?
« Reply #40 on: June 01, 2013, 09:20:05 PM »
for bodybuilding ?

for overall health?

Deads and Squats are very important for overall health. fuck crossfit. ... for bodybuilding? who cares.

MB_722

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Re: Are deads and squats necessary?
« Reply #41 on: June 01, 2013, 09:21:51 PM »

The Oracle

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Re: Are deads and squats necessary?
« Reply #42 on: June 01, 2013, 09:22:04 PM »
No, you don't have to deadlift to get a strong back, if that is your goal.

Squats yes. Deadlift, no.


http://www.liftinglarge.com/The-No-Deadlift-Deadlift-Program_ep_51-1.html

cephissus

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Re: Are deads and squats necessary?
« Reply #43 on: June 01, 2013, 09:42:42 PM »
i never understood this "deadlifts are taxing" but you can easily squat every day thinking

i used to do deadlifts 4x (2x straight-leg, 2x normal) a week and squats 2x

4 sets of high reps for deads, 9 sets of high reps for squats

never felt like deadlifts were particularly "more stressful" than any other lift

then again, i never felt deads in my lower back even once and for a long time never felt squats in my quads, so i'm probably just fucked up somehow, lol

Whiskey

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Re: Are deads and squats necessary?
« Reply #44 on: June 01, 2013, 09:52:42 PM »
i never understood this "deadlifts are taxing" but you can easily squat every day thinking

i used to do deadlifts 4x (2x straight-leg, 2x normal) a week and squats 2x

4 sets of high reps for deads, 9 sets of high reps for squats

never felt like deadlifts were particularly "more stressful" than any other lift

then again, i never felt deads in my lower back even once and for a long time never felt squats in my quads, so i'm probably just fucked up somehow, lol

Deadlifts 4 x a week! you are fucked up!

Just kidding ;D

For me squats are a lot more taxing, I do them every monday when I'm fresh, 10 sets (8 warm up 2 work sets)
and 2 sets of paused squats, assistance work afterward, I don't deadlift until friday, I need the 3 days in between
to recover.

P.S. Your leg looks huge in your avatar!

che

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Re: Are deads and squats necessary?
« Reply #45 on: June 01, 2013, 09:55:07 PM »

oldtimer1

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Re: Are deads and squats necessary?
« Reply #46 on: June 02, 2013, 04:44:57 AM »
If you want to train like a man then dead and squat. If you just want cosmetic muscles then take the easy way out.

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Re: Are deads and squats necessary?
« Reply #47 on: June 02, 2013, 04:53:32 AM »
20 year old back injury that I babied for WAY too long keeps me from doing either at weights that would make me happy. I am too fucking stupid stubborn to do my strength rehab correctly and kinda hop from one tweak to the next. I can be an idiot at times.

Nomad

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Re: Are deads and squats necessary?
« Reply #48 on: June 02, 2013, 05:00:54 AM »
with leverage equipment, you can hit the quads and gluts, just as good as squats.  are you a sponsored bber or professional athlete?  as far as deads, again, what's the point, if you are just staying in shape?  save your lower back and knees.  add bench to the list also.  another exercise good for a nice muscle tear.

Agreed. Especially for people using steroids, the longer and more you bench regularly, the more likely you are to get a pec tear.

all drugs - TPPIIP

Donny

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Re: Are deads and squats necessary?
« Reply #49 on: June 02, 2013, 05:52:09 AM »
I think you can Substitute squats and Deads for other lifts and still get a good workout... however i think the Deadlift and squat are natural movements that really benefit the whole Body and if you can Deadlift heavy and squat 1x a week then itīs more than enough. I am not one of the big Boys on here but what i have built on my Frame is from Squats,Deadlifts,Bench press,Parallel Bar Dips. I use more exercises but if i wanted to get as big as my Genetics will allow...this is all i would do.