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Getbig Main Boards => General Topics => Topic started by: Wiggs on August 15, 2013, 02:39:39 PM
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Wow. lol
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It's obvious it's not all there or there at all because they wouldn't let them go in the room to inspect it. Talk about evil and criminal. The reason they won't let them have it is because it's counter productive to the NWO. If Germany or any country for that matter is backed in Gold, NWO could never happen. They won't or anyone else including the U.S. will never see any of that Gold.
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Simon Gruber is on the case Wiggs. He's pissed after some flat footed Irishman threw his brother off of the Nakitomi Towers a few years back. For too long the West has conspired to steal the riches of the East. He's here to level the playing field.
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Lol at the importance of Gold. ::)
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Lol at the importance of Gold. ::)
Imbecile.
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The fact the world still puts huge monetary values on gold, silver and jewels is laughable. Jewels have their place in some mechanics but that's about it.
Now to the usa. Are you saying some stealing and over lending is going on? Say it ain't so.
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Imbecile.
What gives gold its value?
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What gives gold its value?
The demand for it.
It's usefullness other than nice shiney objects.
It's rarity
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The demand for it.
It's usefullness other than nice shiney objects.
It's rarity
Try again
How much is an ounce of Gold worth.
Lol at "rarity"
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Try again
How much is an ounce of Gold worth.
Lol at "rarity"
When they take it all and theres only so much available to the public, Yeah, rarity.
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Simon Gruber is on the case Wiggs. He's pissed after some flat footed Irishman threw his brother off of the Nakitomi Towers a few years back. For too long the West has conspired to steal the riches of the East. He's here to level the playing field.
I get the Die Hard reference :-*
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When they take it all and theres only so much available to the public, Yeah, rarity.
Stop dodging the question wiggs.
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Stop dodging the question wiggs.
I know there are things more expensive per oz. genius, That's why I gave you those three things. It's been used thousands of years as "money". It's the best energy conductor on this planet.
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You are missing the point.
Try this, without the existence of money, how much is gold worth?
See, not a lot, its money that has the worth, not the gold.
It's the medium of exchange.
If you had a big bar of gold the first thing you would have to do for it to have any value is exchange it for cash. ;)
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It's the best energy conductor on this planet.
I have a feeling its silver but you might be right.
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You are missing the point.
Try this, without the existence of money, how much is gold worth?
See, not a lot, its money that has the worth, not the gold.
It's the medium of exchange.
If you had a big bar of gold the first thing you would have to do for it to have any value is exchange it for cash. ;)
Dude, they've used gold coins in the place of small money. People didn't have bars of gold.
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I think diamonds are more rare and worth more. I could be wrong though.
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Dude, they've used gold coins in the place of small money. People didn't have bars of gold.
I know it was used as money, it was because it didnt rust.
Fact remains it's not used as a medium of exchange anymore.
We have moved on.
I know countries use the gold standard to maintain wealth and financial markets but they could just as well use pink clothes pegs as long as everyone agreed.
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You guys don't understand, we're just playing a game, we all pretend, or it would fold like a card house.
Value of money is all pretend. Humans can get a lot done if we all participate in this game.
It's all worth it and pretty fun, too.
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I think diamonds are more rare and worth more. I could be wrong though.
As are platinum and tanzanite even more so. But Gold has multiple uses which make it even more precious.
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Value of money is all pretend.
Agreed, money has value because everyone agrees it has value, simple.
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Stop dodging the question wiggs.
WHITE guy Judah loved shiny roman coins & sold out his BLUE EYED BLOND buddy Jesus ;D
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I know it was used as money, it was because it didnt rust.
Fact remains it's not used as a medium of exchange anymore.
We have moved on.
I know countries use the gold standard to maintain wealth and financial markets but they could just as well use pink clothes pegs as long as everyone agreed.
No because everyone can make and has access to pink clothes pegs. It has to be a natural resource with a certain degree of rarity.
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'guess you think I'm kicking you, Bob. But it ain't so. What I'm doing is talking, you hear? I'm talking to all those villains down there in Kansas. I'm talking to all those villains in Missouri. And all those villains down there in Cheyenne. And what I'm saying is there ain't no whore's gold. And if there was, how they wouldn't want to come looking for it anyhow.'
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Dude, they've used gold coins in the place of small money. People didn't have bars of gold.
Yeah but when the "apocalypse" (hahahahaaaaaa ) comes... it won't be worth anything. It's a heavy hunk of shiny metal.
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Yeah but when the "apocalypse" (hahahahaaaaaa ) comes... it won't be worth anything. It's a heavy hunk of shiny metal.
Hopefully you'll be a nice cool jail cell where you'll feel right at home.
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No because everyone can make and has access to pink clothes pegs. It has to be a natural resources with a certain degree of rarity.
We would make special pink clothes pegs with registration numbers on them, a limited edition set as it were, come on Wiggs ,have you no imagination. ;D
That way it would be far better than gold.
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As are platinum and tanzanite even more so. But Gold has multiple uses which make it even more precious.
Yes platinum is the shit too.
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What has more value to a starving man?
(http://patentmath.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/01-gold-bar.jpg)(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSQD6xnLQfBbW9h4G_O-7d4M2ZsoEc5bE_mCZXXicpQemH0amxz9w)
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Hopefully you'll be a nice cool jail cell where you'll feel right at home.
Anytime you would like to compare earthly possessions, looks, build, jobs...let me know you fat Jobless monkey. I am superior to you in every measurable aspect.... hahahaaaaa :D
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Knowing these elitists they probably need gold to power some of the machines theyve built and discovered how to use it to expinentially increase electric flow/power
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I think diamonds are more rare and worth more. I could be wrong though.
You are. From what is known, there are huge amounts of mined diamonds that are held in clearing houses for the future because if they ever all went on the market the value would plummet. They only sprinkle some on the market to keep the "rarity" of it up to keep values up. There are numerous stories of diamond mines in the Arctic and Siberia that have billions to trillions of karats of diamonds. Just read up on DeBeers and the shit they've done to ensure people don't flood the market.
Now Platinum is rare. From what I understand. They believe the worlds reserve to be enough to fill an Olympic Pool. That's it.
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You are. From what is known, there are huge amounts of mined diamonds that are held in clearing houses for the future because if they ever all went on the market the value would plummet. They only sprinkle some on the market to keep the "rarity" of it up to keep values up. There are numerous stories of diamond mines in the Arctic and Siberia that have billions to trillions of karats of diamonds. Just read up on DeBeers and the shit they've done to ensure people don't flood the market.
Now Platinum is rare. From what I understand. They believe the worlds reserve to be enough to fill an Olympic Pool. That's it.
There are also clear and cloudy diamonds. Clear for jewelry and cloudy ones mostly used for computer components.
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Crude oil is another perfect currency being finite and unreproducible, thats why Arabs have such riches or it would be just another Africa.
Maybe we can siphoned off underground all the way to USA, like that guy did in there will be blood, that would be great trolling.
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Crude oil is another perfect currency being finite and unreproducible, thats why Arabs have such riches or it would be just another Africa.
Maybe we can siphoned off underground all the way to USA, like that guy did in there will be blood, that would be great trolling.
Crude oil powers the world... It's a little different
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Crude oil powers the world... It's a little different
That's a point of it being a currency. Gold powers the world as well in computers.
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America took advantage of post WWII, and has invested so much into its military and nuclear weapons, making it difficult for the world to fight back.
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If Jesus was a black man :-[ would you sell him to Romans
for a fistful of golden coins ;D ;D ;D
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America took advantage of post WWII, and has invested so much into its military and nuclear weapons, making it difficult for the world to fight back.
Ding Ding Ding.
We're prepared for the coming shitstorm.... we'll just kill everyone and take what we want. ;D
Unfortunately, I have a feeling some sort of malicious biological agent is going to thin the world population... and it probably wont discriminate.
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If kitco.com forum is going to be regurgitated on this knuckle draggers board.....at least link the thread.
https://www.kitcomm.com/showthread.php?t=123108 (https://www.kitcomm.com/showthread.php?t=123108)
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its worth is calculated by how much effort the mining to extract it is and demand on markets.
indeed theres much more rare things out there.
Sure the entire platinum family of metals.......
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shiny rocks. :-\ only gold I want is in the form of a 18k submariner with a black strap.... i'll take oil over gold.
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I get the Die Hard reference :-*
We're the only two sane dudes left in this thread ...
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Like it or not, gold was assigned an intrinsic value by people and civilizations thousands of years ago. It is a vessel of wealth, and exists in a relatively finite amount. Fiat currency is a volatile measure of wealth, subject to extreme changes and constantly in danger of being rendered worthless. Gold will always be a safe haven to store wealth, and is incredibly important. It is no anomaly that China and Russia have been buying up these reserves as fast as they can get their hands on it. Gold will always be invaluable as a hedge against the crooked nature of fantasy money that is conjured in the form of notes, stock market trends, etc.
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You can print more money, but you can't print more gold. Gold is a commodity, true, but it is also a store of wealth that is unconnected to modern fiat currencies. It's value, like with all commodities, is in its scarcity.
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We're the only two sane dudes left in this thread ...
Pffft, I was lol'ing hard when I read it... Just couldn't post.
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Anytime you would like to compare earthly possessions, looks, build, jobs...let me know you fat Jobless monkey. I am superior to you in every measurable aspect.... hahahaaaaa :D
Have fun while you have them old man, because you can't bring them to hell with you.
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Like it or not, gold was assigned an intrinsic value by people and civilizations thousands of years ago. It is a vessel of wealth, and exists in a relatively finite amount. Fiat currency is a volatile measure of wealth, subject to extreme changes and constantly in danger of being rendered worthless. Gold will always be a safe haven to store wealth, and is incredibly important. It is no anomaly that China and Russia have been buying up these reserves as fast as they can get their hands on it. Gold will always be invaluable as a hedge against the crooked nature of fantasy money that is conjured in the form of notes, stock market trends, etc.
This
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Over thousands of years gold has proven to hold it's value versus the price of commodities. It is the most convenient and stable medium of barter that the world has ever seen. Financial meltdowns are created by fiat currency.
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What has more value to a starving man?
(http://patentmath.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/01-gold-bar.jpg)(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSQD6xnLQfBbW9h4G_O-7d4M2ZsoEc5bE_mCZXXicpQemH0amxz9w)
While it's true that value is subjective and situational, the scenario you describe almost never actually occurs. That's why the gold is worth more.
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Imbecile.
X2
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you realize that without fiat money we would be stuck kinda far back in time?esp the usa wouldnt exist as it does today.
are you saying there were no financial meltdowns before fiat currencys? ;D
USA wouldn't exist if it wasn't for slavery. FACT!
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You are missing the point.
Try this, without the existence of money, how much is gold worth?
See, not a lot, its money that has the worth, not the gold.
It's the medium of exchange.
If you had a big bar of gold the first thing you would have to do for it to have any value is exchange it for cash. ;)
Gold is money, the dollar is just currency.
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Over thousands of years gold has proven to hold it's value versus the price of commodities. It is the most convenient and stable medium of barter that the world has ever seen. Financial meltdowns are created by fiat currency.
rofl, so let me show you a gold chart for the first time in your life.
As you can see, if you bought gold exactly 1 year ago you would be losing around 40% of your capital. Basically 3+ DECADES worth of inflation right in your culo in just 12 months. Great "value reserve" commodity... ::)
Numbers dont lie, gold is one of the most volatile shits you could ever trade. And you dont know jack.
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USA wouldn't exist if it wasn't for slavery. FACT!
the USA wouldn't exist if it weren't for a great many things.
Groups have been enslaving other groups since the dawn of time... It just happens much more infrequently today on a grand scale.
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you realize that without fiat money we would be stuck kinda far back in time?esp the usa wouldnt exist as it does today.
are you saying there were no financial meltdowns before fiat currencys? ;D
haha its funny because galeniko knows his shit about a very broad range of different topics. There is something suspect about his background, or he maybe he is just smart.
There are plenty of reasons that fiat currency is superior to gold. One of them is that monetary supply must grow at the same pace of GDP. If monetary supply is stuck we would have DEFLATION. And deflation is 10x worse than inflation if you dont know. Since we cant controll well the supply of gold it is totally harmfull to a healthy growth of economies.
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USA wouldn't exist if it wasn't for slavery. FACT!
you wouldnt exist if it wasnt for slavery. FACT!
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rofl, so let me show you a gold chart for the first time in your life.
As you can see, if you bought gold exactly 1 year ago you would be losing around 40% of your capital. Basically 3+ DECADES worth of inflation right in your culo in just 12 months. Great "value reserve" commodity... ::)
Numbers dont lie, gold is one of the most volatile shits you could ever trade. And you dont know jack.
Show a gold chart over the last 12 years, then what do you see? ::)
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Ukjeff is a fuckin retard.
http://geology.com/minerals/gold/uses-of-gold.shtml
(http://geology.com/minerals/gold/uses-of-gold.shtml)
Of all the minerals mined from the Earth, none is more useful than gold. Its usefulness is derived from a diversity of special properties. Gold conducts electricity, does not tarnish, is very easy to work, can be drawn into wire, can be hammered into thin sheets, alloys with many other metals, can be melted and cast into highly detailed shapes, has a wonderful color and a brilliant luster. Gold is a memorable metal that occupies a special place in the human mind.
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Show a gold chart over the last 12 years, then what do you see? ::)
Dude, gold goes up and down. So does oil, so does the DOW. Thats the point. It oscilates just like ANY other commodity. If you buy gold you are buying an asset with a very high volatility, even higher than the usual stock indexes.
Its a SPECULATIVE play, not a safe harbour. Why is it so hard to understand that?
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the USA wouldn't exist if it weren't for a great many things.
Groups have been enslaving other groups since the dawn of time... It just happens much more infrequently today on a grand scale.
Wow, listen to the excuses just pour in. Pathetic. You got defensive after I stated a fact, why is that? And the fact is If slavery hadn't started and worked, there'd be no America. Period Dot. It is what it is, and you're legitimizing it with excuses to make yourself feel better. Wrong is wrong.
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Have fun while you have them old man, because you can't bring them to hell with you.
Judge not lest ye be judged.......... negro
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Judge not lest ye be judged.......... negro
I prefer Hebrew.
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you realize that without fiat money we would be stuck kinda far back in time?esp the usa wouldnt exist as it does today.
are you saying there were no financial meltdowns before fiat currencys? ;D
You are correct, the USA would not exist as it is today without fiat currency, it would be better off. By the way fiat currency and fractional reserve banking go back a thousand years, but it has been taken to whole new level in the last century. Financial booms and busts happen due to expansion and contraction of the money supply and believe me there is a great amount of wealth to be accumulated in either scenario.
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How much gold is there in the world?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21969100
Try again
How much is an ounce of Gold worth.
Lol at "rarity"
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rofl, so let me show you a gold chart for the first time in your life.
As you can see, if you bought gold exactly 1 year ago you would be losing around 40% of your capital. Basically 3+ DECADES worth of inflation right in your culo in just 12 months. Great "value reserve" commodity... ::)
Numbers dont lie, gold is one of the most volatile shits you could ever trade. And you dont know jack.
Wow 12 whole months, what a sample! Why don't you take the last couple hundred years and see how much steel, wheat, coal etc., and ounce of gold bought you. Then compare that to dollars. Your understanding of the financial system is the same of a 10 year old getting a weekly allowance.
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Wow 12 whole months, what a sample! Why don't you take the last couple hundred years and see how much steel, wheat, coal etc., and ounce of gold bought you. Then compare that to dollars. Your understanding of the financial system is the same of a 10 year old getting a weekly allowance.
So you are going to tell the dudes that bought gold last year and are losing FOURTY FUCKING PERCENT of their savings to not worry because gold is "safe" and 12 months is too short of a sample? roflcopter
no matter what bs excuse you throw at it, there is no way something that can make you lose 40% in a year can be considered a safe bet. no fucking way.
It is the equivalent of you holding dolares for 12 months and the inflation rate shots up to 40% year. It is just crazy and it *never* happened during the whole history of the american currency. Never.
Holding dolars is much more safe than holding gold, period.
And you retards cant even grasp a very simple mathematical concept called historical volality. What a shame.
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Wow 12 whole months, what a sample! Why don't you take the last couple hundred years and see how much steel, wheat, coal etc., and ounce of gold bought you. Then compare that to dollars. Your understanding of the financial system is the same of a 10 year old getting a weekly allowance.
EXACTLY
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Dude, gold goes up and down. So does oil, so does the DOW. Thats the point. It oscilates just like ANY other commodity. If you buy gold you are buying an asset with a very high volatility, even higher than the usual stock indexes.
Its a SPECULATIVE play, not a safe harbour. Why is it so hard to understand that?
Now you're back tracking. What did gold do over the last 12 years? Answer the question. It will refute your attempt at discrediting gold's store of value by limiting the scope to just the last year. Gold has been a store of value for thousands of years. Why is it so hard to understand that? Since 1913, the dollar has lost 97% of it's value. How's gold done over that time? You keep your dollars, I'll keep my gold.
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haha its funny because galeniko knows his shit about a very broad range of different topics. There is something suspect about his background, or he maybe he is just smart.
There are plenty of reasons that fiat currency is superior to gold. One of them is that monetary supply must grow at the same pace of GDP. If monetary supply is stuck we would have DEFLATION. And deflation is 10x worse than inflation if you dont know. Since we cant controll well the supply of gold it is totally harmfull to a healthy growth of economies.
Are you even remotely serious with this?
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You keep your dollars, I'll keep my gold.
Your gold is worth fuck all without the ability to exchange if for dollars.
You have some gold, you want a house and car, without dollars it aint gonna happen.
Wake up mate.
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Your gold is worth fuck all without the ability to exchange if for dollars.
You have some gold, you want a house and car, without dollars it aint gonna happen.
Wake up mate.
Tell that to Iran, who is getting paid in gold for its oil. If and when I liquidate gold, I'll have more dollars in the end, than if I had held dollars all along. You need to wake up.
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Who in turn will exchange it for cash to buy what they need when the time is right. ::)
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Are you even remotely serious with this?
I could give you a very simple mathematical equation backing what I said but I wont.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/__A4Ll0mS9j0/S6nZOrVqLBI/AAAAAAAAAIc/Vs-mIDbYgdo/s400/41HKYTPXXDL.jpg)
get it and find out for youself, kid. Good night.
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So you are going to tell the dudes that bought gold last year and are losing FOURTY FUCKING PERCENT of their savings to not worry because gold is "safe" and 12 months is too short of a sample? roflcopter
no matter what bs excuse you throw at it, there is no way something that can make you lose 40% in a year can be considered a safe bet. no fucking way.
It is the equivalent of you holding dolares for 12 months and the inflation rate shots up to 40% year. It is just crazy and it *never* happened during the whole history of the american currency. Never.
Holding dolars is much more safe than holding gold, period.
And you retards cant even grasp a very simple mathematical concept called historical volality. What a shame.
The reason you saw that much short term volatility in gold is due to your beloved fiat currency you fucking imbecile.
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The reason you saw that much short term volatility in gold is due to your beloved fiat currency you fucking imbecile.
yea, when gold goes up its because it rocks, when it goes down blame the currency ::)
oh the retards.
really, im out.
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yea, when gold goes up its because it rocks, when it goes down blame the currency ::)
oh the retards.
really, im out.
No you moron. It rocks because it goes up and down but remains steady over the long term. Didn't your macro economics book teach you that?
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hahahaha!!!
Getbiggers butthurt over a very solid hedge against the devaluation of worthless paper.
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So you are going to tell the dudes that bought gold last year and are losing FOURTY FUCKING PERCENT of their savings to not worry because gold is "safe" and 12 months is too short of a sample? roflcopter
no matter what bs excuse you throw at it, there is no way something that can make you lose 40% in a year can be considered a safe bet. no fucking way.
It is the equivalent of you holding dolares for 12 months and the inflation rate shots up to 40% year. It is just crazy and it *never* happened during the whole history of the american currency. Never.
Holding dolars is much more safe than holding gold, period.
And you retards cant even grasp a very simple mathematical concept called historical volality. What a shame.
correct me if im wrong wasnt the gold value lsst year at a record high? Only an idiot would buy gold then
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No you moron. It rocks because it goes up and down but remains steady over the long term. Didn't your macro economics book teach you that?
It remains steady over the long term because "people" manage the markets.
FFS its just a bit of shiny metal.
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It remains steady over the long term because "people" manage the markets.
FFS its just a bit of shiny metal.
It remains steady in relation to other commodities which follow supply and demand. In relation to the dollar? Well let's see... Average price of gold in 1952 $34.60 per ounce, in 2012 about $1830. But to be fair let's go back to before the financial meltdown say 2006, about $605. And let's not forget that the dollar is the strongest of the fiat currencies. What's even more interesting is that the price of gold has been pretty steady up until around 1914 and has been climbing ever since. What happened around this time? Oh yeah, the birth of the Federal Reserve.
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(http://myfreedomlibrary.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/The-Creature-from-Jekyll-Island_200w.jpg)(http://myfreedomlibrary.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/The-Creature-from-Jekyll-Island_200w.jpg)(http://myfreedomlibrary.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/The-Creature-from-Jekyll-Island_200w.jpg)(http://myfreedomlibrary.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/The-Creature-from-Jekyll-Island_200w.jpg)
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You are missing the point.
Try this, without the existence of money, how much is gold worth?
See, not a lot, its money that has the worth, not the gold.
It's the medium of exchange.
If you had a big bar of gold the first thing you would have to do for it to have any value is exchange it for cash. ;)
You are retarded. Paper money by itself is worthless unless markets put "faith" in it. Gold is what is still really valuable and which is why the dollar was backed by gold for centuries until recently.
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You are retarded. Paper money by itself is worthless unless markets put "faith" in it. Gold is what is still really valuable and which is why the dollar was backed by gold for centuries until recently.
Im retarded?
Lets run with your analogy then.
Paper money only has value because people put "faith" in it.
So what gives gold its value if its not "faith" of people?
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I don't understand why some people hate gold so much, the price of gold has no effect on your life.
Or does it?
If gold is useless why do central banks hold it on their balance sheet. They should just sell all of their reserves of this worthless, useless asset.
Or do they know something we don't?
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I don't understand why some people hate gold so much, the price of gold has no effect on your life.
Or does it?
If gold is useless why do central banks hold it on their balance sheet. They should just sell all of their reserves of this worthless, useless asset.
Or do they know something we don't?
Because Gold retains its value.
Its because people believe in it.
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USA wouldn't exist if it wasn't for slavery. FACT!
A you forgeting John Adams obtaining vital loans (5 million guldens) from Amsterdam bankers ;)
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you wouldnt exist if it wasnt for slavery. FACT!
;D ;D ;D
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Because Gold retains its value.
Its because people believe in it.
Would you say gold is important?
Why did people choose gold as the ultimate form of wealth?
Who made them choose gold?
Were they forced by governments?
Or did it come about naturally?
Is there something about gold that made it hold it's value over thousands of years of human civilisation, during which everything else has lost value due to entropic degradation?
It must be due to golds unique physical and chemical properties.
"Gold still represents the ultimate form of payment in the world. Fiat money, in extremis, is accepted by nobody. Gold is always accepted." Alan Greenspan
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Would you say gold is important?
Yes, beacuse people believe it is.
Why did people choose gold as the ultimate form of wealth?
Because of its properties.
Who made them choose gold?
Who made who? I dont know what you mean by that, people in power chose gold because they had big sticks.
Were they forced by governments?
Governments are just groups of people, people decided we would use gold
Or did it come about naturally?
Man made decisions dont come about naturally.
Is there something about gold that made it hold it's value over thousands of years of human civilisation, during which everything else has lost value due to entropic degradation?
its nice and shiny and looks nice and we can make things out if it.
It must be due to golds unique physical and chemical properties.
Not really, we could use anything if enough people decided.
Same way gold would be worth nothing as of tomorrow if enough people agreed.
"Gold still represents the ultimate form of payment in the world. Fiat money, in extremis, is accepted by nobody. Gold is always accepted." Alan Greenspan
Take a gold bar into an estate agents tomorrow and try and buy a house with it see how it pans out.pardon the pun
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Gold and silver have always been money since recorded human history. Every primitive tribe that has walked this earth recognized gold and silver for what they are. That fact didn’t change in 1971 because some lame president said so. Most countries today are doing everything they can to acquire as much gold as possible as the world moves away from using the world reserve currency, the petro dollar which is in the process of being printed into oblivion. Cotton/paper rectangles with printed ink on them do not fit the definition of money, they are debt based currency. The Germans know full well what happens when you print your currency into oblivion hence their insistence in getting their gold back from the criminals at the Federal Reserve. The price of gold and silver has been suppressed for decades. Gold, also referred to as “power money”, is going to a minimum of 5000 per ounce; some say it may go 50000+. Gold and silver have no counter-party risk. As a system collapses, all forms of “wealth” funnel down to true wealth, which has always been gold and silver. Not having any at this point in the game is foolish.
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The fact the world still puts huge monetary values on gold, silver and jewels is laughable. Jewels have their place in some mechanics but that's about it.
Now to the usa. Are you saying some stealing and over lending is going on? Say it ain't so.
At least it's something physical regarded as having value for thousands of years instead of thin-air.
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You are missing the point.
Try this, without the existence of money, how much is gold worth?
See, not a lot, its money that has the worth, not the gold.
It's the medium of exchange.
If you had a big bar of gold the first thing you would have to do for it to have any value is exchange it for cash. ;)
in countries where money is virtually worthless due to massive money printing, people turn to trading gold for food. yeah, gold for food. so scoff all you want but thats hiw some manage to actually eat.
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in countries where money is virtually worthless due to massive money printing, people turn to trading gold for food. yeah, gold for food. so scoff all you want but thats hiw some manage to actually eat.
Exactly my point, it has value because the people deem it to have value.
This isnt easy at all.
You have to forget about what the medium of exchange is and just concentrate on the "belief of the people".
It doesn't matter what the "thing" is, it's simply the faith of the people that counts.
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Should the reign of fait currency fail, the most common stores of value will be: food, ammo, gold. The first and second because of their utility and the final for its place in the historic pantheon of value stores. The first two are obviously more important.
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FACT: People like gold because it's shiny
FACT: People like diamonds because they are sparkly.
People put a value on things like they are puppies.
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FACT: People like gold because it's shiny
FACT: People like diamonds because they are sparkly.
People put a value on things like they are puppies.
People want the value of their money to be based on something physical.....
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People want the value of their money to be based on something physical.....
No they dont, they want to be sure that when they go in a shop the shopkeeper is happy to accept a card or cash.
Gold never enters their head.
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some of GBs financial elite in here solving the worlds economic crises one post at a time.
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some of GBs financial elite in here solving the worlds economic crises one post at a time.
Taking another breath from sucking Gale's nutsack? You try wayyy to hard to be witty. Just give it up. You are not liked on getbig.
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Most valuable commodity is bullets. With bullets you can obtain all the others ;D
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some of GBs financial elite in here solving the worlds economic crises one post at a time.
LOL. It is kinda sad, buncha body fetish cultists (me too) talking shit about economic theory. Quite the Mensa chapter.
I have always found this guy to be illuminating: http://www.zerohedge.com/
twitter: @zerohedge
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Taking another breath from sucking Gale's nutsack? You try wayyy to hard to be witty. Just give it up. You are not liked on getbig.
ohhhhh no I'm not liked. oh god. whatever will I do now. lol
hahaha 'nobody likes you' hahaha what are you in grade 3?!
keep up the good work nancy.
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ohhhhh no I'm not liked. oh god. whatever will I do now. lol
hahaha 'nobody likes you' hahaha what are you in grade 3?!
keep up the good work nancy.
(http://www.kcconfidential.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Crying+Baby+Natural+High+for+Some+Moms.jpg)
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ohhhhh no I'm not liked. oh god. whatever will I do now. lol
hahaha 'nobody likes you' hahaha what are you in grade 3?!
keep up the good work nancy.
Would you like me to show you a post where you wrote that about me?
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LOL. It is kinda sad, buncha body fetish cultists (me too) talking shit about economic theory. Quite the Mensa chapter.
I have always found this guy to be illuminating: http://www.zerohedge.com/
twitter: @zerohedge
I'm just busting balls dude a lot of guys in here I like. it's when I see a welfare case like ukbeth (who wears jogging pants in public anyway?) debating global economics just I can't help myself. :D
xfactor said it best- why would anyone come on here looking for relationship or economic advise. it's not exactly a composium of the worlds sharpest minds that gather here. lol
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Would you like me to show you a post where you wrote that about me?
ya but in your case it's true.
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I don't think there has been an actual audit of U.S. gold reserves in decades.
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some of GBs financial elite in here solving the worlds economic crises one post at a time.
Strong fail at trying to discredit logical and coherent discussion on economies and currency which muscle only lughead wannabes like you cant understand and get mad at bc theyre losing their forum hero status
Shut the fuck up no one
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Gal and me think some of GBs financial elite in here solving the worlds economic crises one post at a time.
Fixed
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I'm just busting balls dude a lot of guys in here I like. it's when I see a welfare case like ukbeth (who wears jogging pants in public anyway?) debating global economics just I can't help myself. :D
xfactor said it best- why would anyone come on here looking for relationship or economic advise. it's not exactly a composium of the worlds sharpest minds that gather here. lol
That would be symposium my slack jawed friend.....
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Strong fail at trying to discredit logical and coherent discussion on economies and currency which muscle only lughead wannabes like you cant understand and get mad at bc theyre losing their forum hero status
Shut the fuck up no one
your right. I apologise. I'll sit back and watch the great minds of GB dazzle eachother with their intellectual prowess. half of you have to sit there and wipe drool from your mouths as you type but you know what the world needs and nobody is listening to you! hahahahaha
carry on, Jerry's kids.
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your right. I apologise. I'll sit back and watch the great minds of GB dazzle eachother with their intellectual prowess. half of you have to sit there and wipe drool from your mouths as you type but you know what the world needs and nobody is listening to you! hahahahaha
carry on, Jerry's kids.
Yes, its best you sit it out.
Unless its training shoes or bathroom mirror shots its way over your head.
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That would be symposium my slack jawed friend.....
thank you for proving point so aptly, limpwrist.
my work here is done. it's been a slice. carry on you warren buffets!
hahaha priceless.
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thank you for proving point so aptly, limpwrist.
my work here is done. it's been a slice. carry on you warren buffets!
hahaha priceless.
Is your response Gal approved?
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No they dont, they want to be sure that when they go in a shop the shopkeeper is happy to accept a card or cash.
Gold never enters their head.
Card or cash that has a relatively stable value....
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Card or cash that has a relatively stable value....
Go and ask any shopkeeper what is the current value of gold against the dollar.
See how important it is to him/her.
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Card or cash that has a relatively stable value....
There is no way that a gold bug will ever convince a skeptic and vice-versa. For a lot of folks, a hedge against equities is bonds and a hedge against inflation is land. For me and mine, I hold physical gold and silver as my hedge. I don't buy it as a traditional investment vehicle. I am not "long gold", I am "really long gold". I don't care what the spot price is. If (hyper) inflation never comes, I will give my physical holdings to my son.
The last time that I bought gold it was about $800/oz. The last time I bought silver, it was $25/oz. Meh, I don't worry about it, because it isn't part of my "investment holdings".
Ukjeff brings up many good points about the value of gold being largely ephemeral on a historical perception. It is a valid point. But all stores of value (including money) are simply that because of the trust of the underlying system. If the trust in the fiat currency is lost, then the game is afoot.
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Diversify.
Get some precious metals. I like silver but gold is fine, once the value drops back down.
Buy a few land parcels. Land doesn't die.
Buy a few guns, some ammo, some rice and protein jugs.
Buy a few grand$ in foreign currencies.
invest in a few other areas. Then relax and sleep well at night knowing not ALL of them will crash. And if half do, the other half will skyrocket. Diversify then relax :)
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For me and mine, I hold physical gold and silver as my hedge. I don't buy it as a traditional investment vehicle. I am not "long gold", I am "really long gold". I don't care what the spot price is. If (hyper) inflation never comes, I will give my physical holdings to my son.
This would make a lot of sense in a universe without opportunity cost.
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LOL. It is kinda sad, buncha body fetish cultists (me too) talking shit about economic theory. Quite the Mensa chapter.
I have always found this guy to be illuminating: http://www.zerohedge.com/
twitter: @zerohedge
LOL!! True dat!
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USA is so fucking corrupt. Ponzi scheme.
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Diversify.
Get some precious metals. I like silver but gold is fine, once the value drops back down.
Buy a few land parcels. Land doesn't die.
Buy a few guns, some ammo, some rice and protein jugs.
Buy a few grand$ in foreign currencies.
invest in a few other areas. Then relax and sleep well at night knowing not ALL of them will crash. And if half do, the other half will skyrocket. Diversify then relax :)
One of the biggest land owners in America is Ted Turner. But when shit hits the fan and the government gets overthrown by the military try to convince this land is yours and not theirs
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This would make a lot of sense in a universe without opportunity cost.
That is a very fair point also, and one that I wrestle with occasionally. I own and train with various weapons with the hope that I will never have to use them. I have an alarm system in my house with the hope that it never goes off. I have life insurance policies with the hope that my wife will never have the opportunity to redeem them (you hear that dear?!). Sometimes, you have to make investments for the "maybes" in life.
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I snicker with contempt every time someone calls gold an investment.
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I snicker with contempt every time someone calls gold an investment.
That's what they are taught to believe. Who even knows how much gold there actually is. It's such a secret and always hidden so you just have to take the word of your gubnint that they actually have what they claim.
Funny how they parade around cash like it's nothing, but you can't fucking see our gold.
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That's what they are taught to believe. Who even knows how much gold there actually is. It's such a secret and always hidden so you just have to take the word of your gubnint that they actually have what they claim.
Funny how they parade around cash like it's nothing, but you can't fucking see our gold.
I have a business partner, who after years of having to suffer through my contrarian diatribes stated with some pride that he bought gold, then proceeded to tell me about his ETF. :-X ???
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Anytime you would like to compare earthly possessions, looks, build, jobs...let me know you fat Jobless monkey. I am superior to you in every measurable aspect.... hahahaaaaa :D
Groink, you are a smart man. You are posting some racist shit lately.
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:D ;D
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Sometimes, you have to make investments for the "maybes" in life.
1. Unlike farmers' hedging with commodity futures or some such, P(USD hyperinflation) is either retardedly low -- if all factual evidence currently available is any indication -- or otherwise utterly opaque (the probabilities facing farmers are uncertain as well, but a wealth of experience at least indicates rough estimates of crop failures and the like). In either instance it's hard to see how hedging against it is any more rational than hedging against a meteor strike, i.e., it is hard to see how it is rational at all.
2. Even if P(USD hyperinflation) were 100%, it isn't clear that shiny hunks of metal would be of much use. Contrary to crackpot opinion, gold has never been a good inflation hedge (vhttp://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2078535); why would it suddenly start functioning as such?
So, P(USD hyperinflation) is retardedly low or otherwise opaque and gold has never been a good inflation hedge, yet is rather expensive (way above historical average) to buy into, incurring significant opportunity costs. I'm confident that this outweighs doomsday prescriptions from crackpots and googly-eyed kneegars (see the Industry board) trying to profit from gold bug ignorance.
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Im retarded?
Lets run with your analogy then.
Paper money only has value because people put "faith" in it.
So what gives gold its value if its not "faith" of people?
Here you go.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_standard#Theory
Commodity money is inconvenient to store and transport. Furthermore, it does not allow a government to manipulate or restrict the flow of commerce within its dominion with the same ease that a fiat currency does. As such, commodity money gave way to representative money, and gold and other specie were retained as its backing.
Gold was a common form of money due to its rarity, durability, divisibility, fungibility, and ease of identification,[10] often in conjunction with silver. Silver was typically the main circulating medium, with gold as the metal of monetary reserve. Another great advantage is its anonymity, as although most ingots bear a serial number, re-melting and/or re-refining can eliminate all traces of its source. An excellent example of the effectiveness of gold in allowing wealth to cross borders occurred after the fall of Vietnam, when many refugees carried their wealth to the West in gold.
Gold is hard to fake, easy to identify, easy to mold into necessary shapes and the resulting new shape is very durable.
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Here you go.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_standard#Theory
Gold is hard to fake, easy to identify, easy to mold into necessary shapes and the resulting new shape is very durable.
Why do you keep missing the point?
Stop concentrating on the "thing" as opposed to the "belief" and you might just get it.
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Why do you keep missing the point?
Stop concentrating on the "thing" as opposed to the "belief" and you might just get it.
You asked this question:
So what gives gold its value if its not "faith" of people?
I provided you with a specific answer as well as a link with more scholarly approved justifications. If you can't "figure it out" then well, the problem is not on my end but yours.
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USA is so fucking corrupt. Ponzi scheme.
Yes Arce, this is the biggest Ponzi Scheme in the history of Ponzi Schemes.
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I miss the old wiggs before the conspiracies, black Hebrew BS, Christianity, and such. Still a good dude but you just can't beat the original. Oh how I long for stories of unemployment, white women and thc usage.
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I miss the old wiggs before the conspiracies, black Hebrew BS, Christianity, and such. Still a good dude but you just can't beat the original. Oh how I long for stories of unemployment, white women and thc usage.
he was one of the funniest posters back then.
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You asked this question:
I provided you with a specific answer as well as a link with more scholarly approved justifications. If you can't "figure it out" then well, the problem is not on my end but yours.
We will leave it then, we are not going to convince the other either way.
No worries.
You keep your gold I will keep my cash.
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If gold has no intrinsic value and isnt important in economic theory anymore why are central banks around the world buying it like crazy?
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If gold has no intrinsic value and isnt important in economic theory anymore why are central banks around the world buying it like crazy?
Because they know people have a belief that its valuable and they all share that belief.
If the people didn't believe the gold was valuable then it wouldn't be.
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Because they know people have a belief that its valuable and they all share that belief.
If the people didn't believe the gold was valuable then it wouldn't be.
So you admit gold is valuable, which is what matters, regardless of your perceived rationale. When your dollars continue to fall, watch what gold and silver do, then you might begin to comprehend their true value.
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Because they know people have a belief that its valuable and they all share that belief.
If the people didn't believe the gold was valuable then it wouldn't be.
All human civilization is based upon shared "beliefs" genius.
fun fact: The US Dollar has lost 96% of its purchasing power since the Federal Reserve's creation in 1913. It would seem that they have miserably failed as stewards of the people's wealth. Specifically, their mandate for stable prices. It used to cost $20 US Dollars notes to buy 1oz of gold. Now it costs $1400 notes. The 1oz of gold is still the same but the loss of purchasing power of the dollar means it requires substantial more of the fiat notes to purchase it.
But by all means...keep your "wealth" in a medium that loses 2 to 4% every year from inflation.
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All human civilization is based upon shared "beliefs" genius.
fun fact: The US Dollar has lost 96% of its purchasing power since the Federal Reserve's creation in 1913. It would seem that they have miserably failed as stewards of the people's wealth. Specifically, their mandate for stable prices. It used to cost $20 US Dollars notes to buy 1oz of gold. Now it costs $1400 notes. The 1oz of gold is still the same but the loss of purchasing power of the dollar means it requires substantial more of the fiat notes to purchase it.
But by all means...keep your "wealth" in a medium that loses 2 to 4% every year from inflation.
But your golds value is based on currency, its useless to you until you sell it.
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But your golds value is based on currency, its useless to you until you sell it.
Untrue.....I have done business where gold was the "money" exchanged for goods. It's a lot more common then you think.
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But your golds value is based on currency, its useless to you until you sell it.
Tell that to Iran, who is receiving gold for their oil.
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Go and ask any shopkeeper what is the current value of gold against the dollar.
See how important it is to him/her.
Without anything physical backing up the currency, a government can then just keep producing paper which leads to inflation.
With gold, a they can't pump out paper and 'create' money from thin air.
This is the whole point here.
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I`ve posted it before,but time to post again,and some people might realise that paper "money" is a receipt for gold.
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Without anything physical backing up the currency, a government can then just keep producing paper which leads to inflation.
With gold, a they can't pump out paper and 'create' money from thin air.
This is the whole point here.
Not necessarily - nothing precludes a government from issuing a fiat currency with a legally imposed cap on the maximum amount of currency that can be issued. Granted, such a thing would be stupid, but it's possible.
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But your golds value is based on currency, its useless to you until you sell it.
If you think gold has no value in a transaction...you've obviously never been with a women....
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Because they know people have a belief that its valuable and they all share that belief.
BINGO
People will always have faith in Gold. Historically though, other forms of currency have repeatedly failed.
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But your golds value is based on currency, its useless to you until you sell it.
So, if you need to trade your gold for a more convenient form of currency you can.
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I snicker with contempt every time someone calls gold an investment.
In 1936 (Spanish civil war), Reds stored 510 tonnes of gold in the Soviet Union ::)
Stalin refuse to give it back ;D ;D ;D
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Wow. lol
Wiggs,
Look at your source (Russian Television); it's suspect. The original Der Spiegel article seems more balanced and complete. (See http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/german-politicians-demand-to-see-gold-in-us-federal-reserve-a-864068.html) Sounds like more conspiracy theory stuff than anything with substance.
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I like RTV
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What gives gold its value?
Gold's value is intrinsic and is based on it's rarity, as well as the amount of time & labour to extract & refine it.
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You are missing the point.
Try this, without the existence of money, how much is gold worth?
See, not a lot, its money that has the worth, not the gold.
It's the medium of exchange.
If you had a big bar of gold the first thing you would have to do for it to have any value is exchange it for cash. ;)
GOLD is money. What most people refer to as money (paper currencies) is merely a substitute for money.
Cash is no different than the ticket you get from your dry cleaners when you put your shirt in.
The claim check is not the shirt, ...and by the same token FRNs (Federal Reserve Notes) are not money.
Gold always retains it's value & purchasing power, regardless of it's price.
An ounce of gold today, will buy you the same thing it did 2,000 yrs ago, or even 100 yrs ago.
We cannot say the same thing about paper currencies which are designed to steal the wealth of a population that uses them.
Our wealth is our energy. We trade our labour, sweat of our brow for paper currencies that are purposely devalued. that equals theft of our wealth.
http://www.wealthcreationtrends.com (http://www.wealthcreationtrends.com)
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Like it or not, gold was assigned an intrinsic value by people and civilizations thousands of years ago. It is a vessel of wealth, and exists in a relatively finite amount. Fiat currency is a volatile measure of wealth, subject to extreme changes and constantly in danger of being rendered worthless. Gold will always be a safe haven to store wealth, and is incredibly important. It is no anomaly that China and Russia have been buying up these reserves as fast as they can get their hands on it. Gold will always be invaluable as a hedge against the crooked nature of fantasy money that is conjured in the form of notes, stock market trends, etc.
QFT
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Gold is money, the dollar is just currency.
QFT
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Dude, gold goes up and down. So does oil, so does the DOW. Thats the point. It oscilates just like ANY other commodity. If you buy gold you are buying an asset with a very high volatility, even higher than the usual stock indexes.
Its a SPECULATIVE play, not a safe harbour. Why is it so hard to understand that?
You're referring to a rigged paper market.
It goes down because Goldman Sachs co-ordinates the take down, along with central banks. It is designed to bring the price down, trigger stop losses, and shake out all the weak hands, so the central banks can buy it up at rock bottom prices.
What you need to worry about is when the central banks go long on gold, we will see a meteoric rise in it's exchange value. Those of us who acquire smaller more transaction friendly weights will be far more flexible when that time comes... and my gut is telling me it is coming real soon. EXTREMELY soon
I'm raking in as much of it as I can, ...and I'm getting it for FREE.
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Invest in Bodybuilding DVDs. They appreciate in value. When the apocalypse arrives, roughly 75% of the population will suddenly admit to being schmoes.
When that happens, this here DVD copy of the 2005 Charlotte Pro is going to be QUITE valuable ;)
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Now you're back tracking. What did gold do over the last 12 years? Answer the question. It will refute your attempt at discrediting gold's store of value by limiting the scope to just the last year. Gold has been a store of value for thousands of years. Why is it so hard to understand that? Since 1913, the dollar has lost 97% of it's value. How's gold done over that time? You keep your dollars, I'll keep my gold.
AMEN BROTHER!!!
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Your gold is worth fuck all without the ability to exchange if for dollars.
You have some gold, you want a house and car, without dollars it aint gonna happen.
Wake up mate.
YOU SURE ABOUT THAT? :P :P
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Tell that to Iran, who is getting paid in gold for its oil. If and when I liquidate gold, I'll have more dollars in the end, than if I had held dollars all along. You need to wake up.
QFT
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LOL. It is kinda sad, buncha body fetish cultists (me too) talking shit about economic theory. Quite the Mensa chapter.
I have always found this guy to be illuminating: http://www.zerohedge.com/
twitter: @zerohedge
Tyler Durden is fantastic! He's been a great source of research & intelligence over the years.
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There is no way that a gold bug will ever convince a skeptic and vice-versa. For a lot of folks, a hedge against equities is bonds and a hedge against inflation is land. For me and mine, I hold physical gold and silver as my hedge. I don't buy it as a traditional investment vehicle. I am not "long gold", I am "really long gold". I don't care what the spot price is. If (hyper) inflation never comes, I will give my physical holdings to my son.
I couldn't have said it better myself!
You echo my sentiment EXACTLY!
The last time that I bought gold it was about $800/oz. The last time I bought silver, it was $25/oz. Meh, I don't worry about it, because it isn't part of my "investment holdings".
Ukjeff brings up many good points about the value of gold being largely ephemeral on a historical perception. It is a valid point. But all stores of value (including money) are simply that because of the trust of the underlying system. If the trust in the fiat currency is lost, then the game is afoot.
Personally I dollar cost average myself. I acquire some EVERY WEEK regardless of the pricepoint.
When it dips... I load up. I'm convinced we're going to see highs that exceed anything in Sept 2011, so dollar cost averaging, ...even at Sept 2011 prices doesn't matter to me.
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Just mention Gold & 24KT pops up, ;D
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Gold's value is intrinsic and is based on it's rarity, as well as the amount of time & labour to extract & refine it.
I take it you're stockpiling Palladium, Platinum, Ruthenium, Rhenium and Osmium, right? Rhenium and Osmium, in particular are much rarer than gold and more difficult to mine, yet they sell for less, per ounce, than gold – a hard to resist bargain if those things you said are the only metric!
You're referring to a rigged paper market.
It goes down because Goldman Sachs co-ordinates the take down, along with central banks. It is designed to bring the price down, trigger stop losses, and shake out all the weak hands, so the central banks can buy it up at rock bottom prices.
Ah yes... the rigged paper market and its dark overlord Goldman-Sachs... ::)
What you need to worry about is when the central banks go long on gold, we will see a meteoric rise in it's exchange value. Those of us who acquire smaller more transaction friendly weights will be far more flexible when that time comes... and my gut is telling me it is coming real soon. EXTREMELY soon
Your gut has been telling the same nonsense for a while now and its track record is actually quite horrible. Perhaps you should stop relying on an organ whose purpose is the digestion of food for thinking and switch to the brain instead. But be careful at first because, as with any atrophied muscle, you will need to take it slow and easy.
Of course, if there is a meteoric rise coming and real soon, as you claim, buying gold in 'smaller more transaction friendly weights' is a horrible idea: you'd want as much gold as you could buy right away. Plus, buying in small amounts is silly as I explained in another post, where I very carefully crunched the numbers and proved that using your silly system you are essentially getting screwed. Here's the relevant excerpt from the original post (http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=476435.msg6884976#msg6884976):
With Karatbars, it would take you 32 months to get an ounce of gold. If you saved that money instead then in 32 months you'd have saved enough to buy almost twice the gold... So you aren't empowered to acquire far more gold. You're duped into buying far less.
I'm raking in as much of it as I can, ...and I'm getting it for FREE.
Not this same cock-and-balls story again... do you even understand that what you're saying works against the implicit argument behind the marketing material you parrot that gold has some intrinsic value? The facts are simple and uncontroversial: if someone is giving you gold for free, it means that person owns gold which he considers worthless and throws it your way.
Gold always retains it's value & purchasing power, regardless of it's price.
An ounce of gold today, will buy you the same thing it did 2,000 yrs ago, or even 100 yrs ago.
What a bunch of bullshit... I mean, come on. This is trivial to debunk. Simply plot the price of gold against the inflation adjusted value of the dollar. I understand that you aren't an economist but this is really simple, trivial stuff.
Now you're back tracking. What did gold do over the last 12 years? Answer the question. It will refute your attempt at discrediting gold's store of value by limiting the scope to just the last year. Gold has been a store of value for thousands of years. Why is it so hard to understand that? Since 1913, the dollar has lost 97% of it's value. How's gold done over that time? You keep your dollars, I'll keep my gold.
Oh boy. Another guy with little or no understanding of economics who repeats schlock he finds on the Internet. I do have one or two fun questions for you. First, can you tell us what happened in 1934?
Also (and this question is both for you, and 24KT) in 1913, the price of gold averaged less than $19.00 per troy ounce. According to the CPI Inflation Calculator (http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm), $19.00 1913 dollars are worth slightly less than $450 2013 dollars. Yet, gold is selling significantly higher than that. How do you explain this discrepancy vis-à-vis gold's "inflation hedge" status?
Gold is money, the dollar is just currency.
No. Gold is a metal. Money, on the other hand, is any medium of exchange through which people can exchange their best efforts for the best efforts of others. Currency is merely a particular system of money. If you're going to try to discuss economics, you may want to consider spending some time to get to know the basics so that you don't make a fool of yourself.
There's a webinar starting right now that will show you how to accumulate currency grade gold at no out of pocket cost
http://www.karatbarswebinar.com (http://www.karatbarswebinar.com)
For more info visit: http://www.viewtheinfo.com (http://www.viewtheinfo.com)
Yes, ladies and gentlemen. You read that right. There's a webinar right now that will show you how to get gold – which is a magical store of value, a hedge against inflation and the currency of the future (in convenient plastic form!) – for free! But wait! There's more. If you watch now, you'll get a free gift: how to scam others by offering them free valuable gold!
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Diversify.
Get some precious metals. I like silver but gold is fine, once the value drops back down.
Buy a few land parcels. Land doesn't die.
Buy a few guns, some ammo, some rice and protein jugs.
Buy a few grand$ in foreign currencies.
invest in a few other areas. Then relax and sleep well at night knowing not ALL of them will crash. And if half do, the other half will skyrocket. Diversify then relax :)
Putting it into foreign currencies used to be a strategy, ...unfortunately all the currencies are devaluing at the same time. They're all headed for the same place. The final safe haven currency was the Swiss france, ...but a while ago, they decided to peg their franc to the euro... even though they aren't part of the EU. They will devalue their currency and not allow it to rise above 1.2. The only thing left is gold. PHYSICAL bullion, not the vapourware that is ETF's. ETF's are fractional reserve vapourware without the gold to back it. That's why we saw an orchestrated smash in the price... to trigger stop losses, and free up what little gold is there to transfer into the hands of central banks to prop up their balance sheets and be in compliance with Basel III accords.
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I snicker with contempt every time someone calls gold an investment.
You and me both. :P
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I have a business partner, who after years of having to suffer through my contrarian diatribes stated with some pride that he bought gold, then proceeded to tell me about his ETF. :-X ???
:o :o Ouch!!!
You know who he's going to blame when he loses his shirt in the ETF don't you? :P
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But your golds value is based on currency, its useless to you until you sell it.
Gold's value is not based on currency, ...it is PRICED in currency. Big Difference. It's value remains constant despite price fluctuations. Price fluctuations reflect NOT a change in the value of gold, but rather a change in the paper currencies used to acquire the gold.
Gold is wealth. When the fiat paper currencies break down, as they are currently rapidly doing, there will be a financial reset. Gold will play a huge part of that.
Back when Rhodesia became Zimbabwe, $1 Zimbabwe was equal to $1.45 USD
Personally, I would have prefered to have the equivalent of $100 Trillion worth of gold back then,
than the genuine $100 Trillion Zimbabwe Reserve bank note that I have. 999.9 pure 24KT LBMA GDL currency grade gold bullion can be converted into any paper currency worldwide, and is accepted by all banks & goverments as settlement of debt.
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Untrue.....I have done business where gold was the "money" exchanged for goods. It's a lot more common then you think.
And those like myself, and other members of our Karatbars family who own smaller, more transaction friendly weights of gold have the ability to be extremely flexible, and enjoy a smoother transition to whatever new system is put in place, ...as more & more K-Exchange businesses come on board worldwide. Infact, we will have the ability to trade mere fractions of a gram for the goods or services we need.
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Gold's value is not based on currency, ...it is PRICED in currency. Big Difference. It's value remains constant despite price fluctuations. Price fluctuations reflect NOT a change in the value of gold, but rather a change in the paper currencies used to acquire the gold.
That's just plain stupid. There's no single inherent price of gold, so that it remains constant. There's supply and there's demand, and that is what drives the price of the metal itself.
Back when Rhodesia became Zimbabwe, $1 Zimbabwe was equal to $1.45 USD
Personally, I would have prefered to have the equivalent of $100 Trillion worth of gold back then,
than the genuine $100 Trillion Zimbabwe Reserve bank note that I have. 999.9 pure 24KT LBMA GDL currency grade gold bullion can be converted into any paper currency worldwide, and is accepted by all banks & goverments as settlement of debt.
Actually no. Gold is not accepted by all banks and governments as settlement of debt, and even if it is, it is first converted to whatever currency the debt is denominated in, perhaps via the currency that is legal tender in the country in question. Stop lying through your teeth.
As for the Zimbabwean Dollar... that's a prime example of what happens when you put clueless idiots in charge of an economy – even a small, shitty one. It is great fun to buy trillion dollar bills on eBay for pennies though, but only if you can find them with free shipping.
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Just mention Gold & 24KT pops up, ;D
Actually someone sent me a link to this post and asked me to participate.
Since this thread is not subjected to the whim of the political board mods who attempt to subvert threads they don't like. I jumped in.
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Actually someone sent me a link to this post and asked me to participate.
Since this thread is not subjected to the whim of the political board mods who attempt to subvert threads they don't like. I jumped in.
LOL... those nasty mods and their anti-gold agenda!
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FR
(http://www.fouani.org/14.jpg)
Fort Knox
(http://blogs-images.forbes.com/afontevecchia/files/2011/11/Gold-Bars-in-Fort-Knox.jpg)
(http://0.tqn.com/d/gonyc/1/7/G/I/gold01.jpg)
In the above photo - Each gold bar weighs about 27.4 pounds and is worth about $160,000
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Ask yourselves why? ...if the gold exists and has NOT been re-hypothecated, leased out or sold, is it going to require 7 years for the USA to return 325 tonnes of Germany's gold?
Venezuela repatriated it gold, ...and we saw Central Bank vaults in NY & London drained.
Gold also shot up to all time highs at the time. then Kazakstan, and a few smaller countries requested their gold back, ...then Germany requested her gold, ...and they said it would take 7 yrs? ???
That's when we really started seeing an all-out co-ordinated effort to smash gold. It didn't work tho because all it did was increase the demand for physical. How can you possibly call it a bear market, when demand is at an all time high?
Just recently, the Bank of England dumped 1,300 tonnes of gold into the market to smash the price, trigger stop losses and make gold more afforable to central banks who are snapping up the physical hand over fist.
Now... wait for it... wait for it... Asia, has just demanded repatriation of her gold.
This is a game changer, ...and could indeed spell the end of this fractional reserve gold banking system.
In addition, ...there have been signs that many experts are calling Hindenburg Omens... the same signs that appears just before the market crash of 2008.
All I know is the system is busting apart at the seams. How long it's going to ast is anyone's guess, but I cannot shake the belief that something BIG is about to occur.
Alasdair McLeod caught a discrepancy in BofE figures, which they refuse to account for.
He discusses it here with Max Keiser.
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Is there a reliable, official quote from either the Bundesbank or the Federal Reserve that it would take seven years? Or is this just the word spreading around like wildfire on the blogosphere from what are, without a doubt, highly placed and well informed sources?
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FR
(http://www.fouani.org/14.jpg)
Fort Knox
(http://blogs-images.forbes.com/afontevecchia/files/2011/11/Gold-Bars-in-Fort-Knox.jpg)
(http://0.tqn.com/d/gonyc/1/7/G/I/gold01.jpg)
In the above photo - Each gold bar weighs about 27.4 pounds and is worth about $160,000
interesting.... so, gold is $365 per ounce? ??
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http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-08-20/gold-flooding-out-london-switzerland-alarming-rate
This is one of those stories about the gold market that almost seems too wild to be true since the numbers are so extraordinary. According to a Reuters article from earlier today, Australian bank Macquarie has reported that gold is flooding out of London and into Switzerland at a mind-boggling rate. Specifically, 240 tons were exported in May alone and 797 tons during the first half of 2013. That means gold is being exported at a annualized run rate of 17x the 92 tons exported for all of 2012. That’s insane.
Moreover, it seems a lot of that gold is being sent to Switzerland so that the 400oz bars can be melted down into different sizes that are more amenable to Asian sensibilities. So, as many of us suspected all along, what has happened is lobotomized Westerners have sent much of their gold to Asia just as the financial system prepares to melt down again. The fact that the market has absorbed all of this and yet we still have a backwardated market is extremely bullish.
From Reuters:
Aug 19 (Reuters) – Britain’s gold exports to Switzerland surged in the first half of this year, Australian bank Macquarie said on Monday, suggesting bullion being sold out of exchange-traded funds may be heading for Swiss refineries before being sold on in Asia.
The UK exported 240 tonnes of gold to Switzerland in May alone, while its exports over the first half of this year totalled 797 tonnes, Macquarie said in a note.
In contrast, Britain exported just 92 tonnes of bullion to Switzerland in the whole of last year, it said.
“The UK does not have gold mines, so where has it all come from? The obvious source is the gold exchange-traded funds (ETFs), most of which hold their gold holdings in London vaults, and which saw huge outflows in 1H 2013,” Macquarie said.
It added: “But a bigger factor, we think, is that the gold bars from ETFs have gone to Switzerland, where most of the world's gold refining capacity is, to be remelted into different size bars and coins and then sold on end consumers, predominantly in Asia, specifically China and India.”
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whats that?dj181 whole family at the beach or suntanning studio?
;D :D
;D
It was a family meeting, codename: Causa 181, which had to be stopped due to "sudden" malnourishment of the participants.
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That's just plain stupid. There's no single inherent price of gold, so that it remains constant. There's supply and there's demand, and that is what drives the price of the metal itself.
And when the price is plunged to below 75% of production costs, mining companies shut down or layoff staff... just like Barrick (the world's largest gold miner that recently layed off a full third of their staff at corporate.)
What happens when mines shut down, supply dries up, ...but demand goes to all time highs?
A revaluation MUST occur to even get it out of the ground.
Actually no. Gold is not accepted by all banks and governments as settlement of debt, and even if it is, it is first converted to whatever currency the debt is denominated in, perhaps via the currency that is legal tender in the country in question. Stop lying through your teeth.
Let me make it so simple that even YOU can get it.
The year is 1971.
You can acquire 1oz of gold for $35 Zimbabwe dollars or whatever fiat currency you use & save it as gold,
or you can keep $35 in paper and save fiat paper money
The year is 2013.
That 1 oz of gold is now convertable to $1400 in US paper money or any other form of currency on earth.
Your $35 in Zimbabwe fiat currency is worthless
Your $35 worth of Mexican peso buys very little
Your $35 worth of USA Federal Reserve notes buys you less and less each day, and is racing towards the same purchasing power as your $35 Zimbabwe dollars.
As for the Zimbabwean Dollar... that's a prime example of what happens when you put clueless idiots in charge of an economy – even a small, shitty one. It is great fun to buy trillion dollar bills on eBay for pennies though, but only if you can find them with free shipping.
That small shitty economy you refer to used to have a dollar worth MORE than the US dollar.
$1 Zimbabwe dollar used to be equivalent to $1.45 USD, ...and yes, that is exactly what happens when you put clueless idiots in charge of an economy. And when you have a clueless idiot like Bernanke in charge at the Fed openly printing $85 Billion per month to buy worthless mortgages, not to mention all the secret off book bailouts, ...how long do you think it will be before the USD starts looking an awful lot like the Zimbabwe dollar?
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And when the price is plunged to below 75% of production costs, mining companies shut down or layoff staff... just like Barrick (the world's largest gold miner that recently layed off a full third of their staff at corporate.)
What happens when mines shut down, supply dries up, ...but demand goes to all time highs?
A revaluation MUST occur to even get it out of the ground.
Again, there's gold has no inherent value. There's no magical property that gold has that makes it uniquely suited as a store of value.
When the supply dwindles, the price will, inevitably jump – that is simple economics. But alternate stores of values will also become more popular, causing demand to fall. That, too, is simple economics.
Not something I'd expect you to understand though.
Let me make it so simple that even YOU can get it.
That's rich...
The year is 1971.
You can acquire 1oz of gold for $35 Zimbabwe dollars or whatever fiat currency you use & save it as gold,
or you can keep $35 in paper and save fiat paper money
Sidenote: In 1971, the price of gold was fixed by fiat to $35 USD per ounce, as Nixon ended the convertibility of the U.S. Dollar to gold and helped end the Bretton-Woods system.
The year is 2013.
That 1 oz of gold is now convertable to $1400 in US paper money or any other form of currency on earth.
Your $35 in Zimbabwe fiat currency is worthless
Your $35 worth of Mexican peso buys very little
Your $35 worth of USA Federal Reserve notes buys you less and less each day, and is racing towards the same purchasing power as your $35 Zimbabwe dollars.
Oh boy... by the way, what does it mean that $35 1971 dollars would be worth about $470 2013 dollars, whereas the 35 1971 dollars in gold are $1,400 2013 dollars? Please grace us with your amazing understanding of economics.
That small shitty economy you refer to used to have a dollar worth MORE than the US dollar.
$1 Zimbabwe dollar used to be equivalent to $1.45 USD,
Are you fucking stupid or genuinely clueless? The Rhodesian Dollar (the precursor of the Zimbabwean dollar) was, at some point, supposed to be at $1.45 against the USD. Except it wasn't. You see, never was a fully convertible currency and the exchange rate was largely meaningless and not indicative of the real value of the currency.
...and yes, that is exactly what happens when you put clueless idiots in charge of an economy. And when you have a clueless idiot like Bernanke in charge at the Fed openly printing $85 Billion per month to buy worthless mortgages, not to mention all the secret off book bailouts, ...how long do you think it will be before the USD starts looking an awful lot like the Zimbabwe dollar?
Quite long. It's extremely unlikely that the United States will face hyper-inflation or any of the problems that plagued Zimbabwe.
That's not to say that it doesn't have other problems, but those are not nearly as severe and can be fixed.
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Again, there's gold has no inherent value. There's no magical property that gold has that makes it uniquely suited as a store of value.
When the supply dwindles, the price will, inevitably jump – that is simple economics. But alternate stores of values will also become more popular, causing demand to fall. That, too, is simple economics.
Not something I'd expect you to understand though.
That's rich...
Only Gold, and gold alone meets all the criteria for money. Paper doesn't, corn doesn't, neither do diamonds or shells, ...or even feathers. ALL of which have been tried at some point or other.
Sidenote: In 1971, the price of gold was fixed by fiat to $35 USD per ounce, as Nixon ended the convertibility of the U.S. Dollar to gold and helped end the Bretton-Woods system.
Exactly! The end of Bretton-Woods saw the escalation of the theft of our wealth & labour.
Oh boy... by the way, what does it mean that $35 1971 dollars would be worth about $470 2013 dollars, whereas the 35 1971 dollars in gold are $1,400 2013 dollars? Please grace us with your amazing understanding of economics.[/b][/glow][/size]
It means Gold has proven itself to be inflation-proof.
It means if you're smart, ...you'll save in physical gold which increases in value & purchasing power over time.
Are you fucking stupid or genuinely clueless?
Funny, ...I was just pondering the same thing about you ;)
It's extremely unlikely that the United States will face hyper-inflation or any of the problems that plagued Zimbabwe.
That's not to say that it doesn't have other problems, but those are not nearly as severe and can be fixed.
::) ::) ::) ::) You've got to be kidding me? The hyperinflation is baked into the cake.
Your statements reveal someone who simply wants to troll and waste my time, ...or someone woefully ignorant as far as gold goes. Either way... I've had enough of you.
OK, I'm done fartzing around with you. Those who know what's going on, and who know they need to be acquiring gold, and want to know about a way to acquire a perpetual supply of currency grade gold at no out-of-pocket cost, are welcome to join me on our webinar taking place this evening at 9pm EDT
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1. Gold may well increase in price, for reasons already well understood in the relevant literature (I linked to a piece of that literature in my last post in this thread). If nothing else, then, it may represent an excellent speculative vehicle -- presumably via futures.
2. However, investment-wise, gold clocks in a drastically inferior performance to stocks over the putative time period relevant to gold bugs, the long term: in the post Gold Standard era 1976-2012, stocks have a 6.7% real return, gold a 2.5% real return.
3. As to the matter of inflation hedging: as avxo astutely observed (in slightly different words), gold has a positive real rate of return. But a genuine inflation hedge would have a real return of zero. The price of gold as such is not driven by inflation, from which it follows that it is not a hedge against inflation.
4. Finally, P(USD collapse) is, based on all available evidence, extraordinarily low. There is literally zero evidence of any significant inflation on the horizon -- plenty of evidence to the contrary, in fact -- let alone hyperinflation such that the USD will somehow implode. Incurring the opportunity cost of collecting shiny rocks given this state of affairs is, it should go without saying, utterly irrational.
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USA Debt Dilemma
The American economy is going to have a harsh reckoning, the more they print to stave it off and buy up worthless MBS, toxic crap that no one else wants, the worse it's going to be. The bigger they are, ...the harder they fall.
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USA Debt Dilemma
The American economy is going to have a harsh reckoning, the more they print to stave it off and buy up worthless MBS, toxic crap that no one else wants, the worse it's going to be. The bigger they are, ...the harder they fall.
Hey look. Wonky eye is back.
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Only Gold, and gold alone meets all the criteria for money. Paper doesn't, corn doesn't, neither do diamonds or shells, ...or even feathers. ALL of which have been tried at some point or other.
That's a remarkable statement to make. Can you tell us what these magical criteria are that only gold and nothing else fulfills? Because as far as I know, the real and important criteria for a money is that the money is generally accepted as a medium of exchange, is easily divisible and easily distinguished.
And let's assume, for the sake of argument, that basing a monetary system on a precious metal is a good idea. The question then becomes why gold? Why not platinum? Or Rhenium? Or Osmium? Or, hell, Palladium? Just because gold was used in the past as a store of value and the basis of monetary systems doesn't mean much.
Oh, and for the record, posting crappy youtube videos doesn't help your case – it only serves to highlight how shallow and inadequate your knowledge in a field you purport to be an expert in is and how poorly you are able to articulate your thoughts and positions.
It means Gold has proven itself to be inflation-proof.
Uhm... so, the price of gold between 1971 and 2013 has outpaced inflation by a truly massive amount and you think that means it's inflation-proof? Seriously? How does that even compute?
And to add to that 'inflation-proof' is a big and very bold statement. At best, gold is a hedge against inflation, but that hedge only works if the assumptions you made hold. Do they? I suggest that the evidence suggests that they do not; if they did, gold would be at approximately $470 per troy ounce. Not at the ridiculous $1,400.
It means if you're smart, ...you'll save in physical gold which increases in value & purchasing power over time.
If you're smart, you aren't buying gold at $1,400 an ounce, you aren't buying gold by the gram and you don't listen to someone with no background in economics whose only skill seems to be to parrot the marketing material her handlers give her and incessantly posting youtube videos.
Your statements reveal someone who simply wants to troll and waste my time, ...or someone woefully ignorant as far as gold goes. Either way... I've had enough of you.
Let's get the facts straight, shall we?
You didn't know what millesimal fineness represented, and insisted that it meant the gold was 999.9% pure, even after I pointed out that if your assertion were true, it would mean that a one ounce gold bar would contain 9.999 ounces of gold. And you're calling me woefully ignorant?
You continue to suggest that buying gold in tiny, tiny amounts is the better deal despite the fact that I have shown, you using mathematics and hard numbers, that buying gold by the gram is not only not cost effective, but exceedingly stupid. And you're calling me woefully ignorant?
This, ladies and gentlemen, is the person who fancies herself qualified to explain the intricacies of investing in gold and wants to help you make those decisions. A person with no understanding of economics, a tenuous grasp of mathematics and a very warped view of reality.
OK, I'm done fartzing around with you. Those who know what's going on,
and who know they need to be acquiring gold, and want to know about a way to acquire a perpetual supply of currency grade gold at no out-of-pocket cost, are welcome to join me on our webinar taking place this evening at 9pm EDT
Yes... people should join this webinar to learn how to buy "currency grade gold" (whatever that is). They will, no doubt, be told how it's a brilliant idea to buy gold one 1-gram plastic card at a time and, in the process, pay almost twice the amount per troy ounce than the cost of a single one ounce gold Maple Leaf.
Funny, ...I was just pondering the same thing about you ;)
... that's rich, especially coming from someone with the IQ of tepid bathwater.
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Briefly stated, gold bugger and other retardates' claims of "printing press" exorbitance are literally false -- no such printing is going on whatever. What the Fed is doing is exchanging reserves for MBS and other such securities with banks at market rates (no net change in banks' values).
Here's the rate of growth of the money supply, which has followed virtually the same trajectory through the crisis period:
(http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=lG0)
Here's the velocity of money, a variable some think more important than money supply in feeding inflation:
(http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=lGc)
Meanwhile, the spread between 30 year treasuries and TIPS (treasury inflation protected securities) -- a metric for investors' inflation expectations -- was a shockingly low 2.35% at a recent auction.
Finally, the Fed has recently announced the imminent reduction of QE.
The only response of the gold bugger / hyperinflationist is to claim that somehow, the gradual conversion of excess reserves on bank balance sheets into money will magically incite a collapse of the dollar, a bald assertion made without the slightest bit of quantitative analysis, and one which ignores countervailing factors: that the Fed will increase interest rates, that the Fed can hold onto the exchanged assets as long as needed, that a significant amount of that new money will simply be counteracting deflation, etc.
WOOOOOOOOOOOOSH
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USA is screwed lol
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USA is screwed lol
And yours Egypt ;D ;D ;D
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USA is screwed lol
Pretty much, ...but it's no laughing matter.
I'm hopin' & prayin' we can help as many people as possible before the inevitable happens.
And at least facilitate a smoother transition during the reset.
If you think things are bad now with 47 million on food stamps,
...you don't even want to imagine what it's going to be like later.
The more people we can help to NOT have to turn to the government in times of crises, the less burden is placed on local, state, and federal governments. Lord knows each one has been stretched to the limits already. I don't even want to think of the carnage if Larry Summers becomes the new Fed chair after Bernanke.
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Pretty much, ...but it's no laughing matter.
I'm hopin' & prayin' we can help as many people as possible before the inevitable happens.
And at least facilitate a smoother transition during the reset.
A smoother transition into what? An economy where people pay for stuff by trading little plastic cards with one gram of gold inside and can't get change?
You are insane.
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Worst case scenario, a draft is put in effect, and a third world war would patch things right up.
It would also reduce world population , and create jobs to repair the epic infrastructure damage.
Don't worry, it's all going to be ok.
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Worst case scenario, a draft is put in effect, and a third world war would patch things right up.
It would also reduce world population , and create jobs to repair the epic infrastructure damage.
Don't worry, it's all going to be ok.
Wars ARE being fought now...economic and informational wars. The USA is losing because we have had all the power and stability to control the world currency and show the world how to trade....but we are squandering it by allowing those in power here to not follow our own rules.
If there is a huge ground war overseas it won't be at the direction of a centralized US gov't as we know it - or at least not with any standard of living left here. There's too much technology in war now so no need for that type of inefficiency...in fact I doubt anybody would go just based on say so - the gov't would have to imprison and deport masses of people here just to get them to go to war. Our armed forces are currently mercenary in nature. Nobody wants to die for gov't and Wall St. and somebody else's money.
Much more likely is civil war.