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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Big Chiro Flex on January 26, 2014, 10:43:20 PM
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-Discuss
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Better google and copy pasta spam the scientific study.
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-Discuss
I'm thinking no.
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where does our good friend merlot fall in this mix?
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How about a Long Island Ice Tea?
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I'm thinking no.
I've heard this comparison from several places previously. And we know that 7 days of ibuprofen at 400mgs will certainly raise AST/ALT enzymes.
What would you compare in your experience Dbol's hepatoxicity to? (Say a standard 20mg dose)
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I am guessing that the metabolic pathways are different, first of all. Ibuprofen isn't 17-AA.
Second, this would be alarming, since I went literally YEARS when I was taking 1200+ mg/day of ibuprofen. It's still my go to pain killer of choice.
On the "it wouldn't be surprising" side is that I have come to think that doctors aren't always the most medically aware folks...
A study would be nice, or an abstract.
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All right, came across a study by Ciba.
Using dbol cuts short healing time of corneal ulcers.
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Based on my self experience, and being i somewhat liver sensitive, 20 mg dianabol is 30 times more toxic than 400mg of brufen.
I seriously wish it was different. :-\
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I've heard this comparison from several places previously. And we know that 7 days of ibuprofen at 400mgs will certainly raise AST/ALT enzymes.
What would you compare in your experience Dbol's hepatoxicity to? (Say a standard 20mg dose)
But considering that most go on dbol for 6-12 weeks. And I don't know anybody that uses a "standard" 20mg dose and it's more like 50-100mg. I don't think ibuprofen was ever meant to be taken that long. I think it's a week max. When I use it it's never more than 4-5 days.
But my opinion is that neither of these drugs are dangerous if use responsibly. Anything that's abused is not going to be good for you. Probably the most abuse substance in this country is food. People consume too much of it and the leading cause of death, heart disease, is mostly due to diet.
I venture out into public last weekend and it really hit me how everybody is just fat. Some fatter than others but all fat. It's so common place now that it's like it's become the new norm. And Hawaii was recently voted as the most fit and in shape State.
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I am guessing that the metabolic pathways are different, first of all.
Exactly. You can't compare two different drugs like that.
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ibuprofen is renal toxic not liver
hope this helps retard
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ibuprofen is renal toxic not liver
hope this helps retard
Yah, that's what I thought. It's Tylenol (Acetaminophen) that's liver toxic.
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ibuprofen is renal toxic not liver
hope this helps retard
;D
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ibuprofen is renal toxic not liver
hope this helps retard
this
minus the retard comment which I feel was superfluous to the argument
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But considering that most go on dbol for 6-12 weeks. And I don't know anybody that uses a "standard" 20mg dose and it's more like 50-100mg. I don't think ibuprofen was ever meant to be taken that long. I think it's a week max. When I use it it's never more than 4-5 days.
But my opinion is that neither of these drugs are dangerous if use responsibly. Anything that's abused is not going to be good for you. Probably the most abuse substance in this country is food. People consume too much of it and the leading cause of death, heart disease, is mostly due to diet.
I venture out into public last weekend and it really hit me how everybody is just fat. Some fatter than others but all fat. It's so common place now that it's like it's become the new norm. And Hawaii was recently voted as the most fit and in shape State.
Hawaii? The native Hawaiians are the fattest fucks I have ever seen.
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liver experts here...
daily vitamins are all good, right? B, C, E, ginseng, fish oil, and cranberry...
merlot.... 2 glasses..... 2 or 4 nights a week.... that's far more damaging than ibuprofin?
i rarely touch any tylenol or ibuprofin, never any steroid, dont even own a salt shaker... but I dont know much about how liver works, etc. I've read some vitamins suck or are bad for ya.
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ibuprofen is renal toxic not liver
hope this helps retard
Yes that's a good point as well :D
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Hawaii? The native Hawaiians are the fattest fucks I have ever seen.
Slow down, fella. I'm not saying they're not fat, but there's solid-fat and soft-fat like typical North Americans who are normally born a normal size but balloon up in weight. Hawaiians are naturally thick as fuck and solid as fuck too. North Americans were never meant to be that big and have shoulder fat that hangs down past their elbows.
Every Islander I've ever seen was solid as an oak. They're not the prettiest people aesthetically and look closer to a potato than anything, but it's a different type of "fatness". I've also heard that their cardiovascular system's pretty decent, all things considered. They're just a naturally large people.
BTW, you see all these studies about acetamenophen poisoning and I never thought it to be true until I saw a ton of people in the ER with Tylenol ODs. Some people take it for attention in fake suicide attempts, others take it just because they're stupid. It's incredible. Any time I go to the ER (to visit family and friends who work there, or because I was a dumbass and hurt myself lol) I ask if there's APAP ODs and they have people who've crushed a handful of T3's to get high, ate a bottle during a fake suicide attempt, have chronic pain so they eat them like Tic Tacs, etc. I couldn't believe it. Every time I've gone there to have a coffee with someone, I'll ask if there's APAP ODs and lo and behold. It really does send a fuckload of North Americans to the ERs everyday. People are stupid as fucking gerbils.
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How about a Long Island Ice Tea?
Is it okay for a man to drink these?
"My friend" enjoys them.
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Is it okay for a man to drink these?
"My friend" enjoys them.
If you're a raging alcoholic at a social event, sure. Less conspicuous than straight alcohol, and only slightly less effective
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How about a Long Island Ice Tea?
a cocktail doesnt get any more brutal than that ;D
ibuprofen so harsh on the liver?thats brutal.
but who takes that every day?dbol is taken weveyrday, just for relativty sake.
hm, and ibiprofen is realy bad on the kidneys.
btw, chiro, well or anyone, how is cortisol on liver and kidneys?i just had a massive cortisol shot, felt like a hammer hitting from the inside :D
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Slow down, fella. I'm not saying they're not fat, but there's solid-fat and soft-fat like typical North Americans who are normally born a normal size but balloon up in weight. Hawaiians are naturally thick as fuck and solid as fuck too. North Americans were never meant to be that big and have shoulder fat that hangs down past their elbows.
Every Islander I've ever seen was solid as an oak. They're not the prettiest people aesthetically and look closer to a potato than anything, but it's a different type of "fatness". I've also heard that their cardiovascular system's pretty decent, all things considered. They're just a naturally large people.
OK, but I have been there several times and I have seen with mine own eyes. This is Israel Kamakawiwo'ole (beautiful voice) and he basically writes lamentations in song about how fat his family is.
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OK, but I have been there several times and I have seen with mine own eyes. This is Israel Kamakawiwo'ole (beautiful voice) and he basically writes lamentations in song about how fat his family is.
That's not Keith Jones
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I'm on a 30 hour flight in two weeks and will be banging Ibu by the shovel full.
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OK, but I have been there several times and I have seen with mine own eyes. This is Israel Kamakawiwo'ole (beautiful voice) and he basically writes lamentations in song about how fat his family is.
lol yeah, he's definitely a lot more on the porky side. No arguing there.
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lol yeah, he's definitely a lot more on the porky side. No arguing there.
I am pretty sure that is a uke he's holding, but it might be a guitar, LOL.
He's just in his bulking phase.
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Is it okay for a man to drink these?
"My friend" enjoys them.
Seeing as it's basically 5 shots in one I'd say yeah it is.
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Currently on Citodon.
That's paracetamol and good ol' kodein.
Paracetamol is easy to overconsume and lately in Sweden, there has been more and more reports of pain killer intoxications with resulting liver damage.
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I'm on a 30 hour flight in two weeks and will be banging Ibu by the shovel full.
make sure you get up and walk around every hr to prevent blood clots (DVT's)
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where does our good friend merlot fall in this mix?
Your MEOS has a lot to do with that......oh and milk thistle is REALLY good for your liver better than any of those vitamins you were mentioning throw in some curcumin while you're at it
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10397283
Microsomal ethanol-oxidizing system (MEOS): the first 30 years (1968-1998)--a review.
Lieber CS.
Author information
Abstract
Oxidation of ethanol via alcohol dehydrogenase (ADH) explains various metabolic effects of ethanol but does not account for the tolerance and a number of associated disorders that develop in the alcoholic. These were elucidated by the discovery of the microsomal metabolism of ethanol. The physiologic role of this system comprises gluconeogenesis from ketones, fatty acid metabolism, and detoxification of xenobiotics, including ethanol. After chronic ethanol consumption, the activity of the microsomal ethanol-oxidizing system (MEOS) increases, with an associated rise in cytochromes P-450, especially CYP2E1. This induction is associated with proliferation of the endoplasmic reticulum, both in experimental animals and in humans. The role of MEOS in vivo and its increase after chronic ethanol consumption was shown most conclusively in alcohol dehydrogenase-negative deer mice. Enhanced ethanol oxidation is associated with cross-induction of the metabolism of other drugs, resulting in drug tolerance. Furthermore, there is increased conversion of known hepatotoxic agents (such as CCl4) to toxic metabolites, which may explain the enhanced susceptibility of alcoholics to the adverse effects of industrial solvents. CYP2E1 also has a high capacity to activate some commonly used drugs, such as acetaminophen, to their toxic metabolites, and to promote carcinogenesis (e.g., from dimethylnitrosamine). Moreover, catabolism of retinol is accelerated and there also is induction of microsomal enzymes involved in lipoprotein production, resulting in hyperlipemia. Contrasting with the chronic effects of ethanol consumption, acute ethanol intake inhibits the metabolism of other drugs through competition for the at least partially shared microsomal pathway. In addition, metabolism by CYP2E1 results in a significant free radical release and acetaldehyde production which, in turn, diminish reduced glutathione (GSH) and other defense systems against oxidative stress. Acetaldehyde also forms adducts with proteins, thereby altering the functions of mitochondria and of repair enzymes. Increases of CYP2E1 and its mRNA prevail in the perivenular zone, the area of maximal liver damage. CYP1A2 and CYP3A4, two other perivenular P-450s, can also sustain the metabolism of ethanol, thereby contributing to MEOS activity and possibly liver injury. By contrast, CYP2E1 inhibitors oppose alcohol-induced liver damage, but heretofore available compounds were too toxic for clinical use. Recently, however, polyenylphosphatidylchol ine (PPC), an innocuous mixture of polyunsaturated lecithins extracted from soybeans, was discovered to decrease CYP2E1 activity. PPC (and its active component dilinoleoylphosphatidylc holine) also oppose hepatic oxidative stress and fibrosis. PPC is now being tested clinically for the prevention and treatment of liver disease in the alcoholic.
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pasta spam
That sounds delicious.
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Tom Prince agrees.
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make sure you get up and walk around every hr to prevent blood clots (DVT's)
I've spanked the old account a bit and bought a business class seat. It should help.
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OK, but I have been there several times and I have seen with mine own eyes. This is Israel Kamakawiwo'ole (beautiful voice) and he basically writes lamentations in song about how fat his family is.
Didn't be die? I remember seeing album covers of a dude like that with a ukulele...had long hair.
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I've never seen ALT/AST bump up from Ibuprofen usage even at 800mg TID.
I have seen BUN and Creatinine elevations and even kidney failure (rare), acetominophen is very hepatotoxic even at 2gm daily.
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I've never seen ALT/AST bump up from Ibuprofen usage even at 800mg TID.
I have seen BUN and Creatinine elevations and even kidney failure (rare), acetominophen is very hepatotoxic even at 2gm daily.
Yeah....rookie move, I confused ibuprofen with liver clearance. Oops!
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Didn't be die? I remember seeing album covers of a dude like that with a ukulele...had long hair.
Yeah, he died a few years ago.
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OK, but I have been there several times and I have seen with mine own eyes. This is Israel Kamakawiwo'ole (beautiful voice) and he basically writes lamentations in song about how fat his family is.
Well, since I was actually born and raised here in Hawaii I'll speak on this. Polynesians (Hawaiians, Tongans, Samoans, Tahitians) are, in general (meaning there are exceptions), powerfully built, strong and put together like gods. The classic broad shouldered small waist body type. You can see their naturally strong build even as children by their legs. It's rare to see a Samoan, Tongan or Hawaiian without naturally developed calves and big meaty quads. Even the women. And they all pretty much look great when they are young. But, unless they make it point to stay in shape, they go to pot pretty fast after thirty. The native culture revolves around food and they are ravenous eaters. I can't even finish a typical plate lunch here but they can just literally inhale it. They're always eating. This is great when they're growing up and when they get into high school where they all gravitate to football and therefore weight lifting. And this will hold them over until their mid to late twenties. But after that... you're looking at an average weight of 275-325 lbs. I am absolutely astonished at how routine it is to see someone over 300 lbs here.
But there is a large Asian population so they do wonders, as they do in everything, in keeping the Bell Curve on an even keel.
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" One dianabol a day keeps the doctor away "
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Didn't be die? I remember seeing album covers of a dude like that with a ukulele...had long hair.
Died a long time ago. I think it was in 1997. I knew him when he was a kid. We played T-ball on the same team. The Palolo Braves.
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I think more damage is caused by the edema and resulting hypertension than liver damage, unless one is combining it with other orals harsh on the liver or is drinking alcohol regularly with it.
high blood pressure over a long period of time will damage the kidneys along with a myriad of other health problems---its no joke
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i spoke to a retired pro who is still alive that said he took a full bottle of dbol every single day for over ten years straight in the 70's
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i spoke to a retired pro who is still alive that said he took a full bottle of dbol every single day for over ten years straight in the 70's
Liver of peace.
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i spoke to a retired pro who is still alive that said he took a full bottle of dbol every single day for over ten years straight in the 70's
Pete Grymkowski?
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I've never seen ALT/AST bump up from Ibuprofen usage even at 800mg TID.
I have seen BUN and Creatinine elevations and even kidney failure (rare), acetominophen is very hepatotoxic even at 2gm daily.
relax,he confused liver with kidney.
painmeds= bad for kidneys.
i wonder why that is?
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Spoked to a veterinarian weeks ago and he assured me that paracetamol is one of the worst anti inflamatories when it comes to liver toxicity. Yes, liver. Worst than diclofeac, nimesulid, ibuprofen and such.
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Spoked to a veterinarian weeks ago and he assured me that paracetamol is one of the worst anti inflamatories when it comes to liver toxicity. Yes, liver. Worst than diclofeac, nimesulid, ibuprofen and such.
fuck me,
what are the common meds brands for ibuprofen?
they "sounds" harmless and common
and paracetamol as what is that known?
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Paracetamol has a comercial name of benuron.
I was surprised with this information also because paracetamol an injectable diclofenac (voltaren) are the only anti inflamatories that don't mess with my intestines, so i thought it was user friendly.
There is also some god stuff called Dol-u-ron wich is paracetamol 500 and 30mg of codein (opiate). Incredible for severe pain but addictive if one's doesn't control itself.
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relax,he confused liver with kidney.
painmeds= bad for kidneys.
i wonder why that is?
Good thing he's not studying to be a real doctor.
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Seriously?! I seem to have heard a lot of stories about long term dbol use w/ little serious negative impact. Seems like genetics, within reason, are the usual factor in whether u get adversely affected or not.
Did he say what else he was taking alongside the dbol? 70s usage is interesting.
full bottles of test every single day
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Lovers of Ibuprofen can expect nice GI Bleeding as well.. much more commonly sen in patients
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Lovers of Ibuprofen can expect nice GI Bleeding as well.. much more commonly sen in patients
but it is acetaminophen that is the number one destroyer of livers, no?
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but it is acetaminophen that is the number one destroyer of livers, no?
more so during interaction/conjunction w/ other toxic drugs to the liver
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I had a stomach ulcer last year...and I was a regular user of Ibuprofen. Never taking that stuff again, struggled with the ulcer for two months, it was the most catbolic thing I ever experienced 10kg loss in total, mostly muscle :-/
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There is also some god stuff called Dol-u-ron wich is paracetamol 500 and 30mg of codein (opiate). Incredible for severe pain but addictive if one's doesn't control itself.
That's the one I was on then.. Named "Citodon" in Sweden. Doctors needs to prescribe this.
Kodein turns into morphine inside the system.
Didn't feel much on it and therefore can't confirm it's addictive following your designated intake.
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That's the one I was on then.. Named "Citodon" in Sweden. Doctors needs to prescribe this.
Kodein turns into morphine inside the system.
Didn't feel much on it and therefore can't confirm it's addictive following your designated intake.
Some peoples bodies can't convert codeine to morphine due to issues with the liver enzyme responsible, so codeine doesn't do shit for them.
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Did we cover that ibuprofen is toxic to the kidneys in this thread already?
liver regenerates, kidneys don't. the incidence of Kidney damage due to NSAIDs is relatively high in older people / long time users.
I'll stick to a Tylenol ex a couple of times a month, thanks.
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Did we cover that ibuprofen is toxic to the kidneys in this thread already?
liver regenerates, kidneys don't. the incidence of Kidney damage due to NSAIDs is relatively high in older people / long time users.
I'll stick to a Tylenol ex a couple of times a month, thanks.
Succinctly put.
Yeah I confused ibuprofen for liver clearance, my bad.
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I've been living healthy, taking milk thistle and eating right.
Today here with family, I had 3 big glasses of wine. I dont even think I caught a buzz. no dehydration, no anything. Felt awesome, but was back and working in 90 minutes.
Liver really does grow stronger from the healthy foods and milk thistle, I guess.