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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: 240 is Back on February 20, 2014, 08:57:07 AM
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???
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Starbucks. A multinational with profit margins in the high millions (i.e. grosses billions) which sees fit to pay store associates $10.15/hour to stand 8 hours a day and serve the public, balance the till, clean the shop, and do inventory before and after every shift. And which won't allow a visible tattoo or a beard on its employees, right up to the district managers.
Garbage. Up there with McDonald's on the shmoe scale of corporate banditry.
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???
will not last long. They are doing a "parody", but they are producing a product...
Think of all the companies that have been sued or shut down for using the likeness of or name of a product. Even Ferrari had to rename it's F1 car one year because Ford had a problem with them calling it the F150.
And even Ford Lincoln had a problem with the Lincoln LS, because Lexus had a car model with the LS in it.
And so what if these people have a bad product? Then people will associate it with Starbucks...
Even though this is under parody, this is no different that what the Chinese do.
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They're already gone thanks to the Health Department.
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Starbucks. A multinational with profit margins in the high millions (i.e. grosses billions) which sees fit to pay store associates $10.15/hour to stand 8 hours a day and serve the public, balance the till, clean the shop, and do inventory before and after every shift. And which won't allow a visible tattoo or a beard on its employees, right up to the district managers.
Garbage. Up there with McDonald's on the shmoe scale of corporate banditry.
OK, so what would you suggest anyone with a junior high skill set should be paid???
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Starbucks. A multinational with profit margins in the high millions (i.e. grosses billions) which sees fit to pay store associates $10.15/hour to stand 8 hours a day and serve the public, balance the till, clean the shop, and do inventory before and after every shift. And which won't allow a visible tattoo or a beard on its employees, right up to the district managers.
Garbage. Up there with McDonald's on the shmoe scale of corporate banditry.
???
Fuck those tattoo wearing assholes and fuck the beards. Don't want hair in my coffee.
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OK, so what would you suggest anyone with a junior high skill set should be paid???
You get what you put in. If a company wants 5 star workers, it should pay them for it.
I would suggest $13 for entry level positions.
$16 for shift supervisors.
$20 for assistant managers.
and a salary of 42-50k for managers based on experience.
It's not much to ask given the amount of profits they make.
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You get what you put in. If a company wants 5 star workers, it should pay them for it.
I would suggest $13 for entry level positions.
$16 for shift supervisors.
$20 for assistant managers.
and a salary of 42-50k for managers based on experience.
It's not much to ask given the amount of profits they make.
oh brother...so you have no idea what this company's costs are to finance growth, pay supply chains for foreign investments, transportation of product, labor costs, Federal compliancy costs, healthcare costs, 401k matching costs, stock dividend payouts, marketing and forecasting....but you can guess what they should pay for each staffing level because "they make so much profit"
::)
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You get what you put in. If a company wants 5 star workers, it should pay them for it.
I would suggest $13 for entry level positions.
$16 for shift supervisors.
$20 for assistant managers.
and a salary of 42-50k for managers based on experience.
It's not much to ask given the amount of profits they make.
A Latte sir, thats $15 Thank you.
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You get what you put in. If a company wants 5 star workers, it should pay them for it.
I would suggest $13 for entry level positions.
$16 for shift supervisors.
$20 for assistant managers.
and a salary of 42-50k for managers based on experience.
It's not much to ask given the amount of profits they make.
Why would they pay more than they have to for unskilled labor?
First of all, if they aren't having trouble hiring, then obviously, people are willing to take those jobs and consider an acceptable wage. They always have a choice to not work at Starbucks.
Secondly, if they choose not to work at Starbucks, they have the choice to earn an education and a skillset that allows them to command a higher wage. It's an economic theory; the theory of comparative advantage. If you don't have a comparative advantage at a particular task over the competition, then your price gets driven down.
Clearly, workers at Starbucks perform tasks. And I'm sure they would like more money for their tasks. However, there's competition for those jobs, and the competition can perform the tasks just as well. Since there's no comparative advantage from one person to the next in the unskilled labor market, Starbucks can drive down wage costs.
Now, Starbucks does have to pay a lot of money to very specialized accountants who understand how to minimize the taxes paid on the profits they earn. This is because tax law and tax accounting are very specialized skillsets, with the potential for one employee to make an employer a significant sum of money, all while existing in an arena where there isn't the same supply.
When you affect minimum wage, you affect free market economic theory. I like to think most of us in the western world have a problem with that. I don't want an incentive to people to continue to work low-skilled jobs. I want incentives for society to educate itself, learn very specialized and high demand tasks, grow its intelligence, and use that comparative advantage in a global economy to exert power and influence over economies that don't have this intelligence and skillset.
If America is going to win the global economic war, it will do so on the backs of intelligent people who know more than their counterparts in developing economies. It will not do so because more people now have an incentive to work at Starbucks.
We fundamentally disagree. Not that anyone gives a shit what I think.
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Starbucks. A multinational with profit margins in the high millions (i.e. grosses billions) which sees fit to pay store associates $10.15/hour to stand 8 hours a day and serve the public, balance the till, clean the shop, and do inventory before and after every shift. And which won't allow a visible tattoo or a beard on its employees, right up to the district managers.
Garbage. Up there with McDonald's on the shmoe scale of corporate banditry.
This.
Proud to say I've never paid for a starbucks coffee in my life.
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Starbucks. A multinational with profit margins in the high millions (i.e. grosses billions) which sees fit to pay store associates $10.15/hour to stand 8 hours a day and serve the public, balance the till, clean the shop, and do inventory before and after every shift. And which won't allow a visible tattoo or a beard on its employees, right up to the district managers.
Garbage. Up there with McDonald's on the shmoe scale of corporate banditry.
Damn, I'll stick to my dunkin donut coffee.....no thanks, StarFucks
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Damn, I'll stick to my dunkin donut coffee.....no thanks, StarFucks
America runs on Dunkin. And 3 years ago they had that nifty 3-colored slurpie based on Captain America. Fucking A
(http://www.x-entertainment.com/updates/pics/tricolor2.jpg)
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oh brother...so you have no idea what this company's costs are to finance growth, pay supply chains for foreign investments, transportation of product, labor costs, Federal compliancy costs, healthcare costs, 401k matching costs, stock dividend payouts, marketing and forecasting....but you can guess what they should pay for each staffing level because "they make so much profit"
::)
I know all that stuff, actually
I worked in business development and accounts payable for a while, wrote kpi reports
and all that other jazz
listen, a corporation is a separate entity
which means it can be in deficit and the executive officers can continue to draw salaries
paying their personnel more wouldn't cut a dime from their own incomes
but they follow the old corporate 2 step, i.e. pay managers a fuckload in corporate offices
and pay store personnel pennies and dimes
and guess what, they'll keep it up because morons continue to work for those slave wages
otherwise they'd have to pay decently, like Coca Cola which pays its fucking forklift drivers $30/hr to load trailers
why?
because they collectively said no more exploitation
listen man, I respect corporate america but
unmonitored, they're like kids with adhd and a lot of money
see: the 2008 economic blowout
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This.
Proud to say I've never paid for a starbucks coffee in my life.
Hey, it's a profitable business
but I'll be damned if I put a dime into it.
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Why would they pay more than they have to for unskilled labor?
First of all, if they aren't having trouble hiring, then obviously, people are willing to take those jobs and consider an acceptable wage. They always have a choice to not work at Starbucks.
Secondly, if they choose not to work at Starbucks, they have the choice to earn an education and a skillset that allows them to command a higher wage. It's an economic theory; the theory of comparative advantage. If you don't have a comparative advantage at a particular task over the competition, then your price gets driven down.
Clearly, workers at Starbucks perform tasks. And I'm sure they would like more money for their tasks. However, there's competition for those jobs, and the competition can perform the tasks just as well. Since there's no comparative advantage from one person to the next in the unskilled labor market, Starbucks can drive down wage costs.
Now, Starbucks does have to pay a lot of money to very specialized accountants who understand how to minimize the taxes paid on the profits they earn. This is because tax law and tax accounting are very specialized skillsets, with the potential for one employee to make an employer a significant sum of money, all while existing in an arena where there isn't the same supply.
When you affect minimum wage, you affect free market economic theory. I like to think most of us in the western world have a problem with that. I don't want an incentive to people to continue to work low-skilled jobs. I want incentives for society to educate itself, learn very specialized and high demand tasks, grow its intelligence, and use that comparative advantage in a global economy to exert power and influence over economies that don't have this intelligence and skillset.
If America is going to win the global economic war, it will do so on the backs of intelligent people who know more than their counterparts in developing economies. It will not do so because more people now have an incentive to work at Starbucks.
We fundamentally disagree. Not that anyone gives a shit what I think.
We don't disagree really. You just don't see any reason the average man should make anything more than what the top bosses decide. I do see one. But overall, I wouldn't run the company differently if I was the owner
because I'm human and a greedy fuck too
but since I'm not the owner, and my friends work there
and I also worked in unionized companies that pay very good wages
I'm going to decide to say fuck Starbucks anyway
btw WAL MART is the worst in this regard, $8.30/hr to work the cash registers or greet people
you could make the case they keep costs low in this way, until you realize they could still keep costs low and pay their execs a few million less to pay their millions of workers a bit more
if it's so fine and dandy, why do they keep seeing these wildcat strikes every other month
all is not well in Walmartland
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A Latte sir, thats $15 Thank you.
But think of how GOOD it'll be
the best customer service
and everyone behind the counter will have a huge smile and a thank you instead of slapping the change in your hand
I'd PAY for that
(once a month, maybe) :D
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???
Fuck those tattoo wearing assholes and fuck the beards. Don't want hair in my coffee.
Yeah? then how come women with long hair
which comes off much more frequently than beard hair does
are allow to wear it long
they clearly discriminate against masculinity
more reason to buy coffee from, well
anywhere else
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Starbucks is shit coffee but they have reliable WiFi and you know what to expect.
But I sure do prefer my fringe of society-lookin baristas at the local coffeeshop. Beards and gauges galore...and good coffee and a better atmosphere
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Starbucks is shit coffee but they have reliable WiFi and you know what to expect.
But I sure do prefer my fringe of society-lookin baristas at the local coffeeshop. Beards and gauges galore...and good coffee and a better atmosphere
Ditto. People who serve coffee should look like hipsters. Don't ask me why, that is just as it should be. I don't want clean cut college dropouts in green aprons.
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I work at Starbucks, fuck all of you.
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oh brother...so you have no idea what this company's costs are to finance growth, pay supply chains for foreign investments, transportation of product, labor costs, Federal compliancy costs, healthcare costs, 401k matching costs, stock dividend payouts, marketing and forecasting....but you can guess what they should pay for each staffing level because "they make so much profit"
::)
I pretty much disagree with everything the dude has said. He left Canada for Europe and rails against capitalism. Lol.
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Starbucks. A multinational with profit margins in the high millions (i.e. grosses billions) which sees fit to pay store associates $10.15/hour to stand 8 hours a day and serve the public, balance the till, clean the shop, and do inventory before and after every shift. And which won't allow a visible tattoo or a beard on its employees, right up to the district managers.
Garbage. Up there with McDonald's on the shmoe scale of corporate banditry.
They have great coffee, tea, and hot chocolate (no homo), and are pretty quick. What's the problem?
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They have great coffee, tea, and hot chocolate (no homo). What's the problem?
Yeah, great for you maybe
lol
try workin there, let us know
how fun it was
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Yeah, great for you maybe
lol
try workin there, let us know
how fun it was
Now I understand your posts in the EU thread.
(http://www.miscupload.com/upload/204877827770233085379760.gif)
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Yeah, great for you maybe
lol
try workin there, let us know
how fun it was
No one has to work there.
Sorry, handing out coffee is not worth 15 an hour.
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No one has to work there.
Sorry, handing out coffee is not worth 15 an hour.
why not?
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why not?
Because any idiot can do it. They're not worth the same money as someone with REAL skills.
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Thats a decent wage for entry-level part time work, relative to many other options. Plus, workers there get the health insurance starting at 20 hours.
Not that i don't think the minimum wage should be increased, but starbucks isn't the worst offender
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Because any idiot can do it. They're not worth the same money as someone with REAL skills.
What do you consider to be "real skills" worthy of a lofty $30, 000 salary?
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What do you consider to be "real skills" worthy of a lofty $30, 000 salary?
Anything that actually takes a degree of talent or a trade. I put serving coffee at the bottom rung, along with punching buttons on a McDonalds register.
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Because any idiot can do it. They're not worth the same money as someone with REAL skills.
$15 isn't something you pay a skilled worker
that's more to the order of $25-$40, in the trades
and $50-$200+ for IT-related abilities
3-4 extra bucks would go a long way with a lot of people who've put in years with the company and paid their dues
but they're no sliding scale, it takes a promotion, basically, and there's only so many of those available
fuck Starbucks
ps. it's a lot more than "serving coffee", that's just one of many things they have to do
besides janitorial work, balancing the cash register, inventory, and other things
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Anything that actually takes a degree of talent or a trade. I put serving coffee at the bottom rung, along with punching buttons on a McDonalds register.
lol
no one with a degree would work for 15 bucks in 2014
r u nuts
that's a forklift driver income
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We don't disagree really. You just don't see any reason the average man should make anything more than what the top bosses decide. I do see one. But overall, I wouldn't run the company differently if I was the owner
because I'm human and a greedy fuck too
but since I'm not the owner, and my friends work there
and I also worked in unionized companies that pay very good wages
I'm going to decide to say fuck Starbucks anyway
btw WAL MART is the worst in this regard, $8.30/hr to work the cash registers or greet people
you could make the case they keep costs low in this way, until you realize they could still keep costs low and pay their execs a few million less to pay their millions of workers a bit more
if it's so fine and dandy, why do they keep seeing these wildcat strikes every other month
all is not well in Walmartland
We're not so dissimilar then. I find it difficult to shelve my political and humane views on society in the wake of stark economic theory and capitalism.
I suppose what makes men great is when they can try to reconcile all viewpoints on a situation.
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Anything that actually takes a degree of talent or a trade. I put serving coffee at the bottom rung, along with punching buttons on a McDonalds register.
But those people make more than $30, 000. Who do you think is worth $15/hour? Baristas with a college degree?
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lol
no one with a degree would work for 15 bucks in 2014
r u nuts
that's a forklift driver income
Exactly. Which takes more skills than handing someone coffee. I didn't mean just degrees or schooling, I meant actual skills.
Handing coffee and punching register buttons is the absolute lowest of the low and deserves minimum wage.
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But those people make more than $30, 000. Who do you think is worth $15/hour? Baristas with a college degree?
on the real, it's the assistant managers who make that
which is far too low consider they have to plan, execute, and reach sales quotas to beat the previous YTD numbers
handle a budget
promote specialty items
and replace the manager whenever he/she is out
that's a job that deserves at least 18
which is what I suggested in my first post
we're not throwing around big numbers here, I'm merely saying the starting wage is too low for what THIS company expects from its "partners" in stores
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But those people make more than $30, 000. Who do you think is worth $15/hour? Baristas with a college degree?
I put those people like entry level machinists, entry level mechanics, entry level equipment operators... etc.
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I put those people like entry level machinists, entry level mechanics, entry level equipment operators... etc.
Not sure where you live, man. A CNC machinist here starts at $25 and goes up to 30-32.
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Exactly. Which takes more skills than handing someone coffee. I didn't mean just degrees or schooling, I meant actual skills.
Handing coffee and punching register buttons is the absolute lowest of the low and deserves minimum wage.
Haha I'm forklift certified and I've worked a shitton of retail..... very little "skill" required for either, so I don't think it's accurate to differentiate between the two like that.
I put those people like entry level machinists, entry level mechanics, entry level equipment operators... etc.
And these guys start at $40k or so with waaay more room for advancement
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Not sure where you live, man. A CNC machinist here starts at $25 and goes up to 30-32.
Entry level CNC Machinists everywhere here start at 18. Only companies that start at 25 are Boeing. I should know, thats what I went to school for.
I was implying regular old manual Machinists.
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Haha I'm forklift certified and I've worked a shitton of retail..... very little "skill" required for either, so I don't know why you differentiate between the two like that.
And these guys start at $40k or so with waaay more room for advancement
Still takes more brains than handing a dude his mocha chai latter or big mac. You actually have real responsibilities.
The biggest problem I see is that every moron thinks he's worth 40k+ just for being alive. Someone has to be at the bottom. Those people usually aren't worth 13-15 an hour. Half the people I worked with when I was 16 in food service didn't even rate minimum wage, they coulnd't even count or figure out how to push a button.
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Haha I'm forklift certified and I've worked a shitton of retail..... very little "skill" required for either, so I don't think it's accurate to differentiate between the two like that.
And these guys start at $40k or so with waaay more room for advancement
Same here. I have a forklift license and my average income when I worked as an operator was $14-$16. Granted, at Coca-Cola they paid up to $28 but that took becoming permanent hire, which takes years. A few other multinationals pay around the same for similar output. Either way, easy job. Easier than Starbucks in terms of stress, for sure.
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You get what you put in. If a company wants 5 star workers, it should pay them for it.
I would suggest $13 for entry level positions.
$16 for shift supervisors.
$20 for assistant managers.
and a salary of 42-50k for managers based on experience.
It's not much to ask given the amount of profits they make.
with those wages they wont make their labor profits... either increase their price of the coffee more to pay those wages or go broke... people really overestimate the profit these fastfood/coffee places make... they pinch every penny and make profit on low labor and high traffic
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with those wages they wont make their labor profits... either increase the price of the coffee more to pay those wages or go broke
lol, nah
that's what every CEO says
truth is, they (the top executives) want to rake in millions in bonuses and solid salaries in the low millions
you have no idea how much waste goes into HR people that sit on their asses all day and make 60-80k at the head offices
it's a scam, dude. Top shelf gets a lot, middle gets a decent amount
and the the lowest rung get the least because, hey
it's cheap to replace them.
Their profit margins are so high they can pay all their workers $3 more and still make a very clean profit, and not lose any of their own salaries. They just don't want to. Because that's capitalism.
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they don't even hire a third party to clean their stores, they just hand a bucket and a mop to their underpaid hourly associates
that has nothing to do with anything but squeezing the lowest man for all he's worth
I get it, not everyone is a boss or a genius, or a manager
but christ, $10 is fucking chump change in 2014
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lol, nah
that's what every CEO says
truth is, they (the top executives) want to rake in millions in bonuses and solid salaries in the low millions
you have no idea how much waste goes into HR people that sit on their asses all day and make 60-80k at the head offices
it's a scam, dude. Top shelf gets a lot, middle gets a decent amount
and the the lowest rung get the least because, hey
it's cheap to replace them.
Their profit margins are so high they can pay all their workers $3 more and still make a very clean profit, and not lose any of their own salaries. They just don't want to. Because that's capitalism.
Exactly.
Thats capitalism, they don't owe their employees 3 dollars more. If the employees don't like it they're free to leave.
Im not dumb enough to think that its a fair system because it's not, but the fact is that the employees are free to move to a better company any time they want. Employers don't OWE anyone shit.
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Still takes more brains than handing a dude his mocha chai latter or big mac. You actually have real responsibilities.
The biggest problem I see is that every moron thinks he's worth 40k+ just for being alive. Someone has to be at the bottom. Those people usually aren't worth 13-15 an hour. Half the people I worked with when I was 16 in food service didn't even rate minimum wage, they coulnd't even count or figure out how to push a button.
Exactly
Absolutely anyone including young people can pour drinks.
The responsibility involved is another big factor, and the certification adds value.
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Exactly.
Thats capitalism, they don't owe their employees 3 dollars more. If the employees don't like it they're free to leave.
Im not dumb enough to think that its a fair system because it's not, but the fact is that the employees are free to move to a better company any time they want. Employers don't OWE anyone shit.
Except not all companies get away with that kind of greed because of
a) unions
b) strikes, see: Walmart
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???
Lol where were you when I made this thread 2 weeks ago?
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Except not all companies get away with that kind of greed because of
a) unions
b) strikes, see: Walmart
And thats fine as well - they can do that if they feel they deserve more. Doesn't mean they actually do, or that they'll get it.
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Except not all companies get away with that kind of greed because of
a) unions
b) strikes, see: Walmart
What's your point?
Also, why do you consider it greed to not pay more than market value for labor? Why don't you owe society for all the jobs you haven't created?
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And thats fine as well - they can do that if they feel they deserve more. Doesn't mean they actually do, or that they'll get it.
yeah but, figure that bad press = bad reputation
one thing that every company fears like the plague
and when enough people who work in a place complain of its conditions or shit pay
business decreases
which leads to headaches for the store manager, who has to explain a decline in the number of muffins and lattees served
the DM gets pressured to tell the SM to deliver more, which leads to more pressure on the store associates
it's a vicious circle which never creeps up the ladder past a certain point
I dunno man, there's companies where most people are happy to work (Fedex, or Microsoft, for example)
and ones that most people hate (walmart, starbucks, etc.)
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What's your point?
Also, why do you consider it greed to not pay more than market value for labor? Why don't you owe society for all the jobs you haven't created?
my point is greed should be condemned, not applauded
and I'd create jobs if I had the money to start a business
but of course, I don't
because 1% of the country hoards 95% of the wealth
common misconception, peddled by the GOP and other right wing think tanks: the rich all create jobs, so let's cut their taxes
nu uh
a small percentage of them do
the rest just save the cash for a rainy day (lol)
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I dunno man, there's companies where most people are happy to work (Fedex, or Microsoft, for example)
and ones that most people hate (walmart, starbucks, etc.)
You think that you know more about their business model than they do?
If you were Walmart CEO for a year could you increase profits?
???
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what do you think the occupy wall street movement was about?
this is starting to go overboard. In normal times, corporate soaring profits are tolerable
but when so many people are out of work, and companies won't make new positions or raise wages to match living standards
well man, people start to talk
and talk is dangerous
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You think that you know more about their business model than they do?
If you were Walmart CEO for a year could you increase profits?
???
I don't think I know more about it. What I think is that a family of billionaires has 40% of america's private wealth
yet they pay their workers the lowest wages in existence
if that's ok with you, cool man
it's not ok with me
http://gawker.com/the-waltons-are-the-greediest-family-in-the-world-1300311273 (http://gawker.com/the-waltons-are-the-greediest-family-in-the-world-1300311273)
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yeah but, figure that bad press = bad reputation
one thing that every company fears like the plague
and when enough people who work in a place complain of its conditions or shit pay
business decreases
which leads to headaches for the store manager, who has to explain a decline in the number of muffins and lattees served
the DM gets pressured to tell the SM to deliver more, which leads to more pressure on the store associates
it's a vicious circle which never creeps up the ladder past a certain point
I dunno man, there's companies where most people are happy to work (Fedex, or Microsoft, for example)
and ones that most people hate (walmart, starbucks, etc.)
Exactly right - thats how they choose to model their business. If people hate to work there, they leave. If it hurts the company enough, they change. If not, oh well. Exactly my point... they're free to pay/treat their employees however they like, it's their reputation and their company. They don't owe anyone anything.
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Exactly right - thats how they choose to model their business. If people hate to work there, they leave. If it hurts the company enough, they change. If not, oh well. Exactly my point... they're free to pay/treat their employees however they like, it's their reputation and their company. They don't owe anyone anything.
I agree. But any place with a high turnover will inevitably have to revise his labor relations and operational practices in retail stores because the time it takes to train a new employee costs more money than retaining existing personnel would. Every time they hire someone new, it wastes time. They don't like losing people. Ask any boss that, he'll tell you the same. But they also don't want to make any concessions on the salary front. It's a tough balance. I don't envy the people who run those kinds of outfits.
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Yeah? then how come women with long hair
which comes off much more frequently than beard hair does
are allow to wear it long
they clearly discriminate against masculinity
more reason to buy coffee from, well
anywhere else
amen
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This.
Proud to say I've never paid for a starbucks coffee in my life.
amen
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amen
hah me niether never liked coffee
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I agree. But any place with a high turnover will inevitably have to revise his labor relations and operational practices in retail stores because the time it takes to train a new employee costs more money than retaining existing personnel would. Every time they hire someone new, it wastes time. They don't like losing people. Ask any boss that, he'll tell you the same. But they also don't want to make any concessions on the salary front. It's a tough balance. I don't envy the people who run those kinds of outfits.
So why are you so in favor of allowing the EU to run Europe like a gigantic Walmart store? ;D
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So why are you so in favor of allowing the EU to run Europe like a gigantic Walmart store? ;D
Because nationalism is a plague
nothing good can from it
on the other hand, I've lived under the EU
and feel it's just dandy
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Exactly
Absolutely anyone including young people can pour drinks.
The responsibility involved is another big factor, and the certification adds value.
I assure you that dealing with customers effectively is more difficult and requires more skill than operating a forklift. And I have experience with both. Don't let the requisite "certification" fool you.... that's just for liability purposes.
Have you ever operated a forklift? If not, then why are you so sure that it's more difficult than working retail?
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hah me niether never liked coffee
amen
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I assure you that dealing with customers effectively is more difficult and requires more skill than operating a forklift. And I have experience with both. Don't let the requiste "certification" fool you.... that's just for liability purposes.
Have you ever operated a forklift? If not, then why are you so sure that it's more difficult than writing retail?
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$15 isn't something you pay a skilled worker
that's more to the order of $25-$40, in the trades
and $50-$200+ for IT-related abilities
3-4 extra bucks would go a long way with a lot of people who've put in years with the company and paid their dues
but they're no sliding scale, it takes a promotion, basically, and there's only so many of those available
fuck Starbucks
ps. it's a lot more than "serving coffee", that's just one of many things they have to do
besides janitorial work, balancing the cash register, inventory, and other things
you're right. those mean old companies out there providing goods and services that people want and choose to purchase. and on top of that they have gall to provide jobs to people to fill those goods and services!!
everyone should just sit around and get free money from the government. That's a far more "moral" system. ::)
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you're right. those mean old companies out there providing goods and services that people want and choose to purchase. and on top of that they have gall to provide jobs to people to fill those goods and services!!
everyone should just sit around and get free money from the government. That's a far more "moral" system. ::)
Yes, you have accurately summarized his position. Well done
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I assure you that dealing with customers effectively is more difficult and requires more skill than operating a forklift. And I have experience with both. Don't let the requisite "certification" fool you.... that's just for liability purposes.
Have you ever operated a forklift? If not, then why are you so sure that it's more difficult than working retail?
waiting tables was my lowest paid job yet it took more skill and than any other job I've had. Busy restaurant work is not easy.
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you're right. those mean old companies out there providing goods and services that people want and choose to purchase. and on top of that they have gall to provide jobs to people to fill those goods and services!!
everyone should just sit around and get free money from the government. That's a far more "moral" system. ::)
So tell me, how long have you been an intern on the Sean Hannity program
and when do they start paying you to be a corporate shill
j/w
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We pay our forklift drivers $8.50 an hour.
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We pay our forklift drivers $8.50 an hour.
That's terrible
I'm surprised they don't all quit, that's like a good wage in 1975
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Have you ever operated a forklift? If not, then why are you so sure that it's more difficult than working retail?
The fact that it costs more to hire a forklift driver than whatever you call the teenager that takes your money and pours your drink.
Unless employers are just more generous with forklift operators, but I doubt it.
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That's terrible
I'm surprised they don't all quit, that's like a good wage in 1975
I know. I toss and turn every night thinking about it.
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The fact that it costs more to hire a forklift driver than whatever you call the teenager that takes your money and pours your drink.
Unless employers are just more generous with forklift operators, but I doubt it.
Why does it cost more?
A forklift driver is usually hired through an agency. Companies don't hire them directly much anymore because they don't always need the extra labor.
So you the agency calls, sends you to a warehouse/distribution center, and you get on the lifts and load/unload rackings or trailers within 30 minutes of arriving on site, after the supervisor gives you the lowdown on what they want done
A starbucks employee has to be trained on how to clean the place, work the Point of Sale cash register, approach customers, handle receipts, balance the cash register, do inventory, open/close the store
that sounds like a lot more work to me, dude
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waiting tables was my lowest paid job yet it took more skill and than any other job I've had. Busy restaurant work is not easy.
I've always watched wait staff and imagined how difficult it is.
You can make a lot of money though, I know a waitress that makes like 70k believe it or not (well she claims she does).
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I know. I toss and turn every night thinking about it.
wouldn't sorry about it
people are desperate
even Mexicans don't come to the States anymore because
"normal" people took their jobs ;)
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Why does it cost more?
A forklift driver is usually hired through an agency. Companies don't hire them directly much anymore because they don't always need the extra labor.
So you the agency calls, sends you to a warehouse/distribution center, and you get on the lifts and load/unload rackings or trailers within 30 minutes of arriving on site, after the supervisor gives you the lowdown on what they want done
A starbucks employee has to be trained on how to clean the place, work the Point of Sale cash register, approach customers, handle receipts, balance the cash register, do inventory, open/close the store
that sounds like a lot more work to me, dude
So are you telling me companies are paying forklift drivers more than they're worth?
???
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I assure you that dealing with customers effectively is more difficult and requires more skill than operating a forklift. And I have experience with both. Don't let the requisite "certification" fool you.... that's just for liability purposes.
Have you ever operated a forklift? If not, then why are you so sure that it's more difficult than working retail?
Stressful? Sure.
More skill? Debatable. Personally id rather pay the guy responsible for driving my several thousand pound vehicle carrying thousands of dollars of equipment more than the guy responsible for pushing the big mac button and handing out a drink cup.
Customer service is easy and takes next to zero skill. It is stressful as shit. And I worked in customer service at most levels. .. everyrhing from fast food cashier to shift manager, to parts sales, to service department manager of an agricultural equipment retail store.
customet service at the level you guys are talking - fast food, starbucks, etc, is a no brainer job for high school/college kids, and the bottom of the barrel. Those jobs arent designed to support a family.
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So are you telling me companies are paying forklift drivers more than their worth?
???
Absolutely. I already told you Coke pays its drivers $52,000 a year when they're permanently hired.
FedEx and UPS pay their courrier drivers $28-$30 an hour after 2 years on the job, and they just drop boxes off all day. Any clown can learn to do that after a couple of weeks.
Lockheed Martin pays his warehouse workers $19-$25 based on what they do. Their supervisors make nearly twice that.
Absolutely man. The biggest corporations usually pay the best. The exceptions are Walmart, McDonald's, and Starbucks.
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Why does it cost more?
A forklift driver is usually hired through an agency. Companies don't hire them directly much anymore because they don't always need the extra labor.
So you the agency calls, sends you to a warehouse/distribution center, and you get on the lifts and load/unload rackings or trailers within 30 minutes of arriving on site, after the supervisor gives you the lowdown on what they want done
A starbucks employee has to be trained on how to clean the place, work the Point of Sale cash register, approach customers, handle receipts, balance the cash register, do inventory, open/close the store
that sounds like a lot more work to me, dude
Ha, no. Ive done all that. Trust me, the retail position is far, far more brainless. Stressful yes, but brainless. Youre drastically over complicating it to try and make it sound more difficult than it is.
you push buttons, make sandwiches/fries/what have you (oftentimes more buttonz), sweep, and mop, and wipe tables. I dont know about you,but I do that daily at my own home and have since I was a child. They dont train you to do that, they ooint and tell you what to clean. Woo.
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Absolutely. I already told you Coke pays its drivers $52,000 a year when they're permanently hired.
FedEx and UPS pay their courrier drivers $28-$30 an hour after 2 years on the job, and they just drop boxes off all day. Any clown can learn to do that after a couple of weeks.
Lockheed Martin pays his warehouse workers $19-$25 based on what they do. Their supervisors make nearly twice that.
Absolutely man. The biggest corporations usually pay the best. The exceptions are Walmart, McDonald's, and Starbucks.
And all these fortune 500 companies aren't aware of this massive oversight that's costing them millions?
:o
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Ha, no. Ive done all that. Trust me, the retail position is far, far more brainless. Stressful yes, but brainless. Youre drastically over complicating it to try and make it sound more difficult than it is.
you push buttons, make sandwiches/fries/what have you (oftentimes more buttonz), sweep, and mop, and wipe tables. I dont know about you,but I do that daily at my own home and have since I was a child. They dont train you to do that, they ooint and tell you what to clean. Woo.
No, I'm not overstating it. I'm describing it based on what it was to me. Maybe to you it was a breeze. So that just goes to show no two people can agree on how hard it is and how much it should be paid. Which is why the salaries should be debated, not rigidly enforced without any further thought about their appropriateness for the job.
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And all these fortune 500 companies aren't aware of this massive oversight that's costing them millions?
:o
So are you actually here to discuss this issue or just ask ironic loaded questions and expect me to do your homework for you. Because I'm not your tutor, Rog.
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So are you actually here to discuss this issue or just ask ironic loaded questions and expect me to do your homework for you. Because I'm not your tutor, Rog.
No, but what you're saying makes zero sense.
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No, but what you're saying makes zero sense.
Straw man argument.
yawn
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The damage you can cause alone by accidentally driving a forklift through a wall or over someone makes the position more valuable than the guy who sweeps and pours drinks.
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The damage you can cause alone by accidentally driving a forklift through a wall or over someone makes the position more valuable than the guy who sweeps and pours drinks.
companies have insurance for things like that
on the other hand, an employee stealing all the cash from the till is a perishable loss
and basically the time it takes to set up loss prevention and shrinkage control, not to mention the expense
in tens of thousands of stores
costs far more than it does to pay out to one or two coneheads who crash their lift into a wall (very rare)
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No, I'm not overstating it. I'm describing it based on what it was to me. Maybe to you it was a breeze. So that just goes to show no two people can agree on how hard it is and how much it should be paid. Which is why the salaries should be debated, not rigid enforced without any further thought about their appropriateness for the job.
I agree, but it should be left to the employee and the employer. We shouldnt have an outside force such as the fed coming in and saying 'hey, you make too much, you need to pay those guys more, well, because dammit, shaniqua cant afford to raise her 4.5 kids on your cashier wags". If shaniqua is unhappy she should either take it up with her employer or move to a company that WILL pay her what she thinks shes sorth.
unless, of course, shes not worth that to anyone.... which is the paradox were fjnding ourselves in. Too many worthless people arent worth the wage they think they deserve so they go and try and get the government to force their employers to pay them more.
frankly, many of these people just arent worth the wage they want. But they cant/wont accept that and either change, or develop a skill. They just want to be lazy and be handed more money. Fuck that.
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Informs employers that youth employment regulations (29 CFR 570) promulgated under the Fair Labor Standards Act prohibit most employees under the age of 18 years from operating forklifts for non-agricultural operations and reminds employers that all forklift operators must be trained and certified.
There are hundreds of thousands more teenagers in the labor force that are perfectly capable of working at Starbucks, but aren't legally allowed to run a forklift.
The Starbucks salary keeps dropping...
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Exactly right - thats how they choose to model their business. If people hate to work there, they leave. If it hurts the company enough, they change. If not, oh well. Exactly my point... they're free to pay/treat their employees however they like, it's their reputation and their company. They don't owe anyone anything.
Lol what the fuck is that suppose to mean.
Corporations are not citizens.
Citizens are citizens.
Corporations are foreign parties that get the privilege to do business from citizens.
So if were talking about an actual democracy it`s absurd to suggest they don`t owe citizens something.
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companies have insurance for things like that
on the other hand, an employee stealing all the cash from the till is a perishable loss
and basically the time it takes to set up loss prevention and shrinkage control, not to mention the expense
in tens of thousands of stores
costs far more than it does to pay out to one or two coneheads who crash their lift into a wall (very rare)
One forklift death or serious injury is going to cost more than the entire safe at Starbucks holds. Insurance or not
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I agree, but it should be left to the employee and the employer. We shouldnt have an outside force such as the fed coming in and saying 'hey, you make too much, you need to pay those guys more, well, because dammit, shaniqua cant afford to raise her 4.5 kids on your cashier wags". If shaniqua is unhappy she should either take it up with her employer or move to a company that WILL pay her what she thinks shes sorth.
unless, of course, shes not worth that to anyone.... which is the paradox were fjnding ourselves in. Too many worthless people arent worth the wage they think they deserve so they go and try and get the government to force their employers to pay them more.
frankly, many of these people just arent worth the wage they want. But they cant/wont accept that and either change, or develop a skill. They just want to be lazy and be handed more money. Fuck that.
unfortunately we don't live in a world where you can quit your job just because it exploits you or poses a safety hazard
there's very few jobs available when you consider the high volume of people applying for them
hell, even applying to starbucks doesn't guarantee a callback, let alone an interview or the shitty job itself
it's rough out there, I feel bad for people who aren't connected to someone or have their own source of income
we should all just admire true adonis, he figured it out
working sucks
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This whole forklifting thing is utter bullshit. The skill involved in driving one ranges from very fucking advanced to far below that of a cashier. It`s all on the demands on the driver. Anyone who drives a forklift should understand that. It`s the difference between driving a semi and driving a golf cart.
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This whole forklifting thing is utter bullshit. The skill involved in driving one ranges from very fucking advanced to far below that of a cashier. It`s all on the demands on the driver. Anyone who drives a forklift should understand that. It`s the difference between driving a semi and driving a golf cart.
the only lifts that require some skill are the ones that involve picking off rackings using lateral forks that extend
other than that, anyone can get a license in one day of training
the rest is practicing on the job
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Because people make more than I do they're greedy and greed is bad.
They should give me more of what they have because they're greedy and greed is bad.
I will use the force of government to take from other people to give to me...because they're greedy and greed is bad.
When I want more for myself I'm morally righteous. When others want more for themselves they're greedy.
::)
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you like to use the word they're and underline it a lot to make a point
I can tell
it's very subtle, nicely executed
and convincing
you might be cut out for Starbucks after all
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unfortunately we don't live in a world where you can quit your job just because it exploits you or poses a safety hazard
there's very few jobs available when you consider the high volume of people applying for them
hell, even applying to starbucks doesn't guarantee a callback, let alone an interview or the shitty job itself
it's rough out there, I feel bad for people who aren't connected to someone or have their own source of income
we should all just admire true adonis, he figured it out
working sucks
so? Thats not starbucks or mcdonalds problem. Thats your burden. If I went yo my bkss and sai, hey my wife and I just had 2 kids, I can't move anymore you need to give me a raise", hed say "so? Thats not our fault you chose to have 2 more kids. figure it out or go somewhere else.
Lots of people think like you and nome of you can answer WHY a company should be re a uired to pay more just because their employee gas fallen on hard times/made bad decisions.
they just say 'well today you cant just find another job/get educated/etc so therefore the employer is responsible to pay them more', except theyre not responsible for that AT ALL. Just as y9ur neighbor isnt rewuired to pay you a living wage to weed her garden no employer is required to pay their employees a comfortable lower/middle class wage for flipping burgers and mopping floors
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so? Thats not starbucks or mcdonalds problem. Thats your burden. If I went yo my bkss and sai, hey my wife and I just had 2 kids, I can't move anymore you need to give me a raise", hed say "so? Thats not our fault you chose to have 2 more kids. figure it out or go somewhere else.
Lots of people think like you and nome of you can answer WHY a company should be re a uired to pay more just because their employee gas fallen on hard times/made bad decisions.
they just say 'well today you cant just find another job/get educated/etc so therefore the employer is responsible to pay them more', except theyre not responsible for that AT ALL. Just as y9ur neighbor isnt rewuired to pay you a living wage to weed her garden no employer is required to pay their employees a comfortable lower/middle class wage for flipping burgers and mopping floors
Correct, they don't care about you. So you shouldn't care about them, either. Piss in the sinks, spit in the food, and generally do a half-assed job. That's what you're paid for, not to be the best you can be. Action reaction. ;)
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so? Thats not starbucks or mcdonalds problem. Thats your burden. If I went yo my bkss and sai, hey my wife and I just had 2 kids, I can't move anymore you need to give me a raise", hed say "so? Thats not our fault you chose to have 2 more kids. figure it out or go somewhere else.
Lots of people think like you and nome of you can answer WHY a company should be re a uired to pay more just because their employee gas fallen on hard times/made bad decisions.
they just say 'well today you cant just find another job/get educated/etc so therefore the employer is responsible to pay them more', except theyre not responsible for that AT ALL. Just as y9ur neighbor isnt rewuired to pay you a living wage to weed her garden no employer is required to pay their employees a comfortable lower/middle class wage for flipping burgers and mopping floors
I miss our grandparents generation... :-\
Wish they were still running things
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you like to use the word they're and underline it a lot to make a point
I can tell
it's very subtle, nicely executed
and convincing
you might be cut out for Starbucks after all
I enjoy a cup of Starbucks every morning I'm on the job site.. I stop by on my way to my consulting job where I earn money commiserate with my experience and skill set. I don't disparage the work Starbucks employees do and I tip extra when I receive good service. I prefer the clean atmosphere and efficiency of their organization to dimly lit hovels, staffed with tattooed, and heavily pierced "artists" whose service tells me that their too good to pour coffee and only work here because their genius hasn't yet been discovered. ::)
A job is worth what the employer and employee decide its worth in a free society. If it's not enough the employer won't be able to fill the position. If an employee has skills that are worth more than they leverage those skills for more money. The whole zeitgeist of debating what people are "owed" is what's keeping civilization back. You're owed nothing in this world...you earn and prosper based on your abilities. Or you sit around and complain about what "others" have.
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I enjoy a cup of Starbucks every morning I'm on the job site.. I stop by on my way to my consulting job where I earn money commiserate with my experience and skill set. I don't disparage the work Starbucks employees do and I tip extra when I receive and good service. I prefer the clean atmosphere and efficiency of their organization to dimly lit hovels, staffed with tattooed, and heavily pierced "artists" whose service tells me that their too good to pour coffee and only work here because their genius hasn't yet been discovered. ::)
A job is worth what the employer and employee decide its worth in a free society. If it not enough the employer won't be able to fill the position. If an employee has skills that are worth more than they leverage those skills for more money. The whole zeitgeist of debating what people are "owed" is what's keeping civilization back. You're owed nothing in this world...you earn and prosper based on your abilities. Or you sit around and complain about what "others" have.
It's exactly that kind of corporate slave thinking that keeps the rich getting richer and everyone else scraping by or going broke. When the richest country in the world has entire tent cities on the side of its highways, and people just say that's their problem because they're lazy or can't get a job, then the entire society is basically sick. So in other words there's something like a trillion dollars to spend on fighting wars in other countries but not enough to let people live with a roof over their head. That's fucked up, man. No way does the rest of the world work like that, except 3rd world countries.
And if nobody is owed anything, then why do people related to members of Congress or corporate leaders get away with not working for a living. Oh, right, because of who they know. Fuck the slave mentality. Country's full of trust fund kids who don't work a day in their life or pay taxes. I'm not buying into that.
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And if nobody is owed anything, then why do people related to members of Congress or corporate leaders get away with not working for a living.
???
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???
they all feel entitled and their parents cover their bills, college, financial fuckups, etc.
don't act surprised, you know what I'm saying
try giving your speech to the people who don't need to hear it
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It's exactly that kind of corporate slave thinking that keeps the rich getting richer and everyone else scraping by or going broke. When the richest country in the world has entire tent cities on the side of its highways, and people just say that's their problem because they're lazy or can't get a job, then the entire society is basically sick. So in other words there's something like a trillion dollars to spend on fighting wars in other countries but not enough to let people live with a roof over their head. That's fucked up, man. No way does the rest of the world work like that, except 3rd world countries.
And if nobody is owed anything, then why do people related to members of Congress or corporate leaders get away with not working for a living. Oh, right, because of who they know. Fuck the slave mentality. Country's full of trust fund kids who don't work a day in their life or pay taxes. I'm not buying into that.
You might be interested to know that it's possible to be against all forms of welfare...social and corporate. You're limited to simple left/right thinking. The Military Industrial Complex is abhorrent. The real reason for the disparate wealth is due to central banking and it's debt based fractional reserve lending.
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they all feel entitled and their parents cover their bills, college, financial fuckups, etc.
don't act surprised, you know what I'm saying
try giving your speech to the people who don't need to hear it
That's not a situation of someone owing someone else though. These people shouldn't be allowed to spend their money on their kids? ???
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You might be interested to know that it's possible to be against all forms of welfare...social and corporate. You're limited to simple left/right thinking. The Military Industrial Complex is abhorrent. The real reason for the disparate wealth is due to central banking and it's debt based fractional reserve lending.
That kind of Ron Paul philosophy doesn't work in the system we have. We've got two parties that are basically the same in a lot of ways except social issues and foreign policy, and taxation. But they both work for the corporate/military sector......you have to realize that no matter who you vote for, you get the same people in there. :)
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That's not a situation of someone owing someone else though. These people shouldn't be allowed to spend their money on their kids? ???
It's not the point.
A lot of people don't have to do what you said...they can walk around entitled and never work a day in their life. That can't last forever. Eventually people will get fed up of working for slave wages while other people do nothing because of who they're related to.
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It's not the point.
A lot of people don't have to do what you said...they can walk around entitled and never work a day in their life. That can't last forever. Eventually people will get fed up of working for slave wages while other people do nothing because of who they're related to.
youre sound like a 1st ye A r college know it all hippie.
"If you believe in working for what you earn and making what youre worth, you have a slave mentality, instead you should believe those that have more sbould give it to me, well, because".
Btw, the families of congressman may be entitled, but theyre allowed to if their dad/uncle/whatever feels that he wants to subsidize their life. Theyre not entitled to his money, hes giving them his money. Big difference to y9j feeling like youre entitled to mkre successful peoples cash just because theyre more successful.
I just cant comprehend the mentality of those who believe people with more money/luck/success than they have have some mind of obligation to give it to others. That is the stupidest shit I can think of. You wouldnt gice away youre dog to someone because you had 2 and he had none, and he wanted it, would you?
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It's not the point.
A lot of people don't have to do what you said...they can walk around entitled and never work a day in their life. That can't last forever. Eventually people will get fed up of working for slave wages while other people do nothing because of who they're related to.
wat
thats their families money.... they can walk around and not work s mong as their family member chooses to pay for their life... its their money not yours.... why shouldnt they pay for their family? Why do they owe it to anyone else? They dont.
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youre sound like a 1st ye A r college know it all hippie.
"If you believe in working for what you earn and making what youre worth, you have a slave mentality, instead you should believe those that have more sbould give it to me, well, because".
Btw, the families of congressman may be entitled, but theyre allowed to if their dad/uncle/whatever feels that he wants to subsidize their life. Theyre not entitled to his money, hes giving them his money. Big difference to y9j feeling like youre entitled to mkre successful peoples cash just because theyre more successful.
I just cant comprehend the mentality of those who believe people with more money/luck/success than they have have some mind of obligation to give it to others. That is the stupidest shit I can think of. You wouldnt gice away youre dog to someone because you had 2 and he had none, and he wanted it, would you?
nah
I'm just not a corporate drone like you
and I'm glad I opened my eyes because for years I was
but you're lost man, too lost for any sense to enter your mind
because it's true
there's nothing but darkness in there ;)
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wat
thats their families money.... they can walk around and not work s mong as their family member chooses to pay for their life... its their money not yours.... why shouldnt they pay for their family? Why do they owe it to anyone else? They dont.
like I said
slave mentality
you're keeping the rich rich
and the poor poor
the corporate boys are clinking their champagne glasses to guys like you :)
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like I said
slave mentality
you're keeping the rich rich
and the poor poor
the corporate boys are clinking their champagne glasses to guys like you :)
of course 'you dont believe in forcing others to give you what they have, you have a slave mentality'.
well see what you think when they come for yours.
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like I said
slave mentality
you're keeping the rich rich
and the poor poor
the corporate boys are clinking their champagne glasses to guys like you :)
Wait till the "corporate boys" in Brussels bring in a few million more Africans that can drive your forklift.
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of course 'you dont believe in forcing others to give you what they have, you have a slave mentality'.
well see what you think when they come for yours.
you can have everything I've got
I don't live by my possessions, even if they're convenient when I need them
if everyone had the same amount, rather than 1% having almost everything
I could live with that
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Wait till the "corporate boys" in Brussels bring in a few million more Africans that can drive your forklift.
well, if they do, that's good
Africans have suffered a lot, they deserve to be compensated by their former slavemasters
I see no problem
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well, if they do, that's good
Africans have suffered a lot, they deserve to be compensated by their former slavemasters
I see no problem
Okay... ;D
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America runs on Dunkin. And 3 years ago they had that nifty 3-colored slurpie based on Captain America. Fucking A
(http://www.x-entertainment.com/updates/pics/tricolor2.jpg)
I'd like to see a frappe, latte, and iced coffee in those 3 slots.
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DELETE THAT POST^^^ AND COPYRIGHT
Brilliant ;D