Dumb Starbucks

[Shockwave]

Except not all companies get away with that kind of greed because of
a) unions
b) strikes, see: Walmart

And thats fine as well - they can do that if they feel they deserve more. Doesn't mean they actually do, or that they'll get it.

[Roger Bacon]

Except not all companies get away with that kind of greed because of
a) unions
b) strikes, see: Walmart

What's your point?

Also, why do you consider it greed to not pay more than market value for labor? Why don't you owe society for all the jobs you haven't created?

[Icelord]

And thats fine as well - they can do that if they feel they deserve more. Doesn't mean they actually do, or that they'll get it.

yeah but, figure that bad press = bad reputation
one thing that every company fears like the plague
and when enough people who work in a place complain of its conditions or shit pay
business decreases
which leads to headaches for the store manager, who has to explain a decline in the number of muffins and lattees served
the DM gets pressured to tell the SM to deliver more, which leads to more pressure on the store associates
it's a vicious circle which never creeps up the ladder past a certain point
I dunno man, there's companies where most people are happy to work (Fedex, or Microsoft, for example)
and ones that most people hate (walmart, starbucks, etc.)

[Icelord]

What's your point?

Also, why do you consider it greed to not pay more than market value for labor? Why don't you owe society for all the jobs you haven't created?

my point is greed should be condemned, not applauded
and I'd create jobs if I had the money to start a business
but of course, I don't
because 1% of the country hoards 95% of the wealth
common misconception, peddled by the GOP and other right wing think tanks: the rich all create jobs, so let's cut their taxes
nu uh
a small percentage of them do
the rest just save the cash for a rainy day (lol)

[Roger Bacon]

I dunno man, there's companies where most people are happy to work (Fedex, or Microsoft, for example)
and ones that most people hate (walmart, starbucks, etc.)

You think that you know more about their business model than they do?

If you were Walmart CEO for a year could you increase profits?

[Icelord]

what do you think the occupy wall street movement was about?
this is starting to go overboard. In normal times, corporate soaring profits are tolerable
but when so many people are out of work, and companies won't make new positions or raise wages to match living standards
well man, people start to talk
and talk is dangerous

[Icelord]

You think that you know more about their business model than they do?

If you were Walmart CEO for a year could you increase profits?

I don't think I know more about it. What I think is that a family of billionaires has 40% of america's private wealth
yet they pay their workers the lowest wages in existence
if that's ok with you, cool man
it's not ok with me
http://gawker.com/the-waltons-are-the-greediest-family-in-the-world-1300311273

[Shockwave]

yeah but, figure that bad press = bad reputation
one thing that every company fears like the plague
and when enough people who work in a place complain of its conditions or shit pay
business decreases
which leads to headaches for the store manager, who has to explain a decline in the number of muffins and lattees served
the DM gets pressured to tell the SM to deliver more, which leads to more pressure on the store associates
it's a vicious circle which never creeps up the ladder past a certain point
I dunno man, there's companies where most people are happy to work (Fedex, or Microsoft, for example)
and ones that most people hate (walmart, starbucks, etc.)

Exactly right - thats how they choose to model their business. If people hate to work there, they leave. If it hurts the company enough, they change. If not, oh well. Exactly my point... they're free to pay/treat their employees however they like, it's their reputation and their company. They don't owe anyone anything.

[Icelord]

Exactly right - thats how they choose to model their business. If people hate to work there, they leave. If it hurts the company enough, they change. If not, oh well. Exactly my point... they're free to pay/treat their employees however they like, it's their reputation and their company. They don't owe anyone anything.

I agree. But any place with a high turnover will inevitably have to revise his labor relations and operational practices in retail stores because the time it takes to train a new employee costs more money than retaining existing personnel would. Every time they hire someone new, it wastes time. They don't like losing people. Ask any boss that, he'll tell you the same. But they also don't want to make any concessions on the salary front. It's a tough balance. I don't envy the people who run those kinds of outfits.

[Nirvana]

Yeah? then how come women with long hair
which comes off much more frequently than beard hair does
are allow to wear it long
they clearly discriminate against masculinity
more reason to buy coffee from, well
anywhere else

amen

[Nirvana]

This.

Proud to say I've never paid for a starbucks coffee in my life.

amen

[Mobil]

amen

hah me niether never liked coffee

[Roger Bacon]

I agree. But any place with a high turnover will inevitably have to revise his labor relations and operational practices in retail stores because the time it takes to train a new employee costs more money than retaining existing personnel would. Every time they hire someone new, it wastes time. They don't like losing people. Ask any boss that, he'll tell you the same. But they also don't want to make any concessions on the salary front. It's a tough balance. I don't envy the people who run those kinds of outfits.

So why are you so in favor of allowing the EU to run Europe like a gigantic Walmart store? 

[Icelord]

So why are you so in favor of allowing the EU to run Europe like a gigantic Walmart store? 

Because nationalism is a plague
nothing good can from it
on the other hand, I've lived under the EU
and feel it's just dandy

[ProudVirgin69]

Exactly

Absolutely anyone including young people can pour drinks.

The responsibility involved is another big factor, and the certification adds value.

I assure you that dealing with customers effectively is more difficult and requires more skill than operating a forklift.  And I have experience with both.  Don't let the requisite "certification" fool you.... that's just for liability purposes.

Have you ever operated a forklift?  If not, then why are you so sure that it's more difficult than working retail?

[Nirvana]

hah me niether never liked coffee

amen

[Icelord]

I assure you that dealing with customers effectively is more difficult and requires more skill than operating a forklift.  And I have experience with both.  Don't let the requiste "certification" fool you.... that's just for liability purposes.

Have you ever operated a forklift?  If not, then why are you so sure that it's more difficult than writing retail?

[Voice of Doom]

$15 isn't something you pay a skilled worker
that's more to the order of $25-$40, in the trades
and $50-$200+ for IT-related abilities
3-4 extra bucks would go a long way with a lot of people who've put in years with the company and paid their dues
but they're no sliding scale, it takes a promotion, basically, and there's only so many of those available
fuck Starbucks
ps. it's a lot more than "serving coffee", that's just one of many things they have to do
besides janitorial work, balancing the cash register, inventory, and other things

you're right.  those mean old companies out there providing goods and services that people want and choose to purchase.  and on top of that they have gall to provide jobs to people to fill those goods and services!!  

everyone should just sit around and get free money from the government.  That's a far more "moral" system.  

[ProudVirgin69]

you're right.  those mean old companies out there providing goods and services that people want and choose to purchase.  and on top of that they have gall to provide jobs to people to fill those goods and services!! 

everyone should just sit around and get free money from the government.  That's a far more "moral" system.   

Yes, you have accurately summarized his position.  Well done

[Nirvana]

I assure you that dealing with customers effectively is more difficult and requires more skill than operating a forklift.  And I have experience with both.  Don't let the requisite "certification" fool you.... that's just for liability purposes.

Have you ever operated a forklift?  If not, then why are you so sure that it's more difficult than working retail?

waiting tables was my lowest paid job yet it took more skill and than any other job I've had. Busy restaurant work is not easy.

[Icelord]

you're right.  those mean old companies out there providing goods and services that people want and choose to purchase.  and on top of that they have gall to provide jobs to people to fill those goods and services!!  

everyone should just sit around and get free money from the government.  That's a far more "moral" system.  

So tell me, how long have you been an intern on the Sean Hannity program
and when do they start paying you to be a corporate shill
j/w

[bigkid]

We pay our forklift drivers $8.50 an hour.  

[Icelord]

We pay our forklift drivers $8.50 an hour.  

That's terrible
I'm surprised they don't all quit, that's like a good wage in 1975

[Roger Bacon]

Have you ever operated a forklift?  If not, then why are you so sure that it's more difficult than working retail?

The fact that it costs more to hire a forklift driver than whatever you call the teenager that takes your money and pours your drink.

Unless employers are just more generous with forklift operators, but I doubt it.

[bigkid]

That's terrible
I'm surprised they don't all quit, that's like a good wage in 1975

I know.  I toss and turn every night thinking about it.