Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: El Diablo Blanco on May 02, 2014, 12:15:52 PM
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In my quest for epic leans I ran ECA for 4 weeks over a month ago. Appetite suppression in full effect, weight loss steady then to not overdo it, I stopped ECA. I bridged it with Animal Cuts. I looked at a lot of different "fat loss" supps and decided on these. one month went buy, pissed a lot, but always tired, lethargic, hungry. I am back on ECA. Mood is elevated, high energy, no appetite.
ECA is fat burner of the Gods.
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only terrible side effect: it makes your dick look smaller
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only terrible side effect: it makes your dick look smaller
Please elaborate.
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only terrible side effect: it makes your dick look smaller
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Please elaborate.
Because most of it is hidden in a schmoe's mouth.
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I thought I was going to die on it.
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only terrible side effect: it makes your dick look smaller
So it would make me go down from 8 to 7 inches I guess I would still be ok.
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So it would make me go down from 8 to 7 inches I guess I would still be ok.
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lol at the whores who want a 12 inch cock with a 10 inch diameter.
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Please elaborate.
peripheral vasoconstriction i guess
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Isn't that a bad thing that if you're not taking it you no longer feel "normal" and have to use it to get you up again?
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As if women have any understanding of measurement. ::)
Do an experiment and start asking women a simple question like "What is the height on that door jamb?" and prepare to be amazed at what they come up with.
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(http://31.media.tumblr.com/64ebca9b31dafd2b7ae440711e613d05/tumblr_n0xax8nmiM1rmzgv3o1_500.jpg)
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(http://31.media.tumblr.com/64ebca9b31dafd2b7ae440711e613d05/tumblr_n0xax8nmiM1rmzgv3o1_500.jpg)
haha thats just not practical. Up the ECA!!
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In my quest for epic leans I ran ECA for 4 weeks over a month ago. Appetite suppression in full effect, weight loss steady then to not overdo it, I stopped ECA. I bridged it with Animal Cuts. I looked at a lot of different "fat loss" supps and decided on these. one month went buy, pissed a lot, but always tired, lethargic, hungry. I am back on ECA. Mood is elevated, high energy, no appetite.
ECA is fat burner of the Gods.
did you sweat down to a svelte 20%, leanstuff?
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did you sweat down to a svelte 20%, leanstuff?
36.5% from 80.8% cock growing as I type.
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Yes, ECA is fantastic, especially considering it's legal.
Appetite suppression
Increased energy to workout
Sheds bloat
Burns a little extra fat
Spares muscle mass/suppresses cortisol
It's like the poor man's GH
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As if women have any understanding of measurement. ::)
Do an experiment and start asking women a simple question like "What is the height on that door jamb?" and prepare to be amazed at what they come up with.
a lot of women consider a cucumber the ideal cock size, not necessarily that long but certainly that thick
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Looks like that guy shot esiclene in his dick. Strange as fuck shape.
Haven't taken ECA in years but it does thin dick; it's a vasoconstrictor, opposite of viagra/cialis. I stopped taking pre workout mixes because of that and anxiety. Need to be able to piss at urinal with pride.
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In my quest for epic leans I ran ECA for 4 weeks over a month ago. Appetite suppression in full effect, weight loss steady then to not overdo it, I stopped ECA. I bridged it with Animal Cuts. I looked at a lot of different "fat loss" supps and decided on these. one month went buy, pissed a lot, but always tired, lethargic, hungry. I am back on ECA. Mood is elevated, high energy, no appetite.
ECA is fat burner of the Gods.
ECA= post 2000 Godhead
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My doctor told me it can give someone a heart attack
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My doctor told me it can give someone a heart attack
Without a doubt. So can a few Red Bulls. It's less about the ECA and more about the cardiac health of the person taking it.
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I use to take all that crap, then I discovered going for a run, riding my bike, playing basketball, and walking more. No need for it. Few cups of coffee and stay active.
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Yes, ECA is fantastic, especially considering it's legal.
Appetite suppression
Increased energy to workout
Sheds bloat
Burns a little extra fat
Spares muscle mass/suppresses cortisol
It's like the poor man's GH
??? I thought ephedra was illegal now?
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??? I thought ephedra was illegal now?
Ephedra, yes I believe it is....but ephedra kinda sucks. Not as consistent/predictable as ephedrine.
Ephedrine cannot be marketed for the purposes of weight loss, but it is still sold over the counter in the US for asthma
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Ephedra, yes I believe it is....but ephedra kinda sucks. Not as consistent/predictable as ephedrine.
Ephedrine cannot be marketed for the purposes of weight loss, but it is still sold over the counter in the US for asthma
Bronkaid FTW!
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How much caffeine should I take with Bronkaid?
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i miss ECA. It's been years. That stuff was insane.
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How much caffeine should I take with Bronkaid?
exactly 198.0125 mg
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Fellas, how will Ephedra effect someone with lower than average blood pressure?
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How much caffeine should I take with Bronkaid?
1 bronk, 1 aspirin, Dunkin Donuts Large.
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How much caffeine should I take with Bronkaid?
200mg
Fellas, how will Ephedra effect someone with lower than average blood pressure?
Increase it somewhat. Shouldn't impact the appetite suppressant/thermogenic effects though
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200mg
Increase it somewhat. Shouldn't impact the appetite suppressant/thermogenic effects though
Thanks for the answer, man. My blood pressure is right around 100/70.
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I had forgotten that I have enough Bronk in the house to cook a batch of meth (attention DEA: previous was just a joke). Thanks to you homos, I popped a little ECA before going down in The Pit for my "little" back workout.
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Thanks for the answer, man. My blood pressure is right around 100/70.
That's great! The lower your blood pressure, the better--assuming it's not making you lethargic
If I don't eat low-carb, keep the cardio up, and supplement with fish oil, mine will be around 135/80. Regular meditation has done a lot to keep it in range, too. I'd like to avoid going on bp meds, but I might have to, just to play it safe.
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That's great! The lower your blood pressure, the better--assuming it's not making you lethargic
If I don't eat low-carb, keep the cardio up, and supplement with fish oil, mine will be around 135/80. Regular meditation has done a lot to keep it in range, too. I'd like to avoid going on bp meds, but I might have to, just to play it safe.
High BP runs in my family. I have been on lisinopril since I was 35. Even when I dropped 40 pounds and my BP improved, my doc kept me on the lisinopril.
Thanks dad!
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That's great! The lower your blood pressure, the better--assuming it's not making you lethargic
If I don't eat low-carb, keep the cardio up, and supplement with fish oil, mine will be around 135/80. Regular meditation has done a lot to keep it in range, too. I'd like to avoid going on bp meds, but I might have to, just to play it safe.
We have a lot in common. I moderate my carbs, take fish oil and meditate regularly.
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Be careful you EC junkies. My buddy abused the hell out of ephedrine all through the 90's. He developed a huge amount of health issues: physiological/psychological dependence, muscle tears, neuropathy, adrenal burnout, kidney damage.
You're young and healthy now... it's in your best interest to stay that way.
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High BP runs in my family. I have been on lisinopril since I was 35. Even when I dropped 40 pounds and my BP improved, my doc kept me on the lisinopril.
Thanks dad!
I know some people report lethargy from lisinopril... anything of that nature for you? What's your dosage?
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Be careful you EC junkies. My buddy abused the hell out of ephedrine all through the 90's. He developed a huge amount of health issues: physiological/psychological dependence, muscle tears, neuropathy, adrenal burnout, kidney damage.
You're young and healthy now... it's in your best interest to stay that way.
How did the neuropathy manifest? Did a doctor say the rest of those issues were ephedrine related or is it just something you think is the case? I don't think there is such a thing as adrenal burnout either, not in the way the word is used commonly at least.
I have used more ephedrine than anyone on this forum I'm sure... I have experienced a lot of muscle tears. Haven't used it in a long time though, hard to get where I'm at. Could the ephedrine have to do with the tears? Hell I don't know. ???
One thing with ephedrine is that for me it never stopped working. In fact there appears to have been an increase in sensitivity.
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I know some people report lethargy from lisinopril... anything of that nature for you? What's your dosage?
40 mg/day along with 12.5mg HCTZ. No lethargy that I know of, but then I have been on it for 14 years, so any lethargy would be already factored into my "normal"
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Be careful you EC junkies. My buddy abused the hell out of ephedrine all through the 90's. He developed a huge amount of health issues: physiological/psychological dependence, muscle tears, neuropathy, adrenal burnout, kidney damage.
You're young and healthy now... it's in your best interest to stay that way.
lmao of couse he did and he knows the exact cause to the T lol
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We have a lot in common. I moderate my carbs, take fish oil and meditate regularly.
^^
YOU MIGHT WANT TO REPLACE THE FISH OIL- I'm using "Super Krill oil" now, (they are a very small shrimp) 300% more potent than fish oil, much more bio-available, and NO BURPS!!
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Yes, ECA is fantastic, especially considering it's legal.
Appetite suppression
Increased energy to workout
Sheds bloat
Burns a little extra fat
Spares muscle mass/suppresses cortisol
It's like the poor man's GH
Does it seriously suppress cortisol??? How is this possible for a potent stim?
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Does it seriously suppress cortisol??? How is this possible for a potent stim?
Of course not. E/C is great, I agree. But it does not lower cortisol.
Ephedrine's mechanism of action is indirect stimulation of the adrenergic receptor system. It increases the activity of norepinephrine (noradrenaline) on adrenergic receptors (which secondarily leads to cortisol release). Caffeine significantly increases cortisol as well. If you're on gear its not really an issue. If you're cutting natural (which is stupid anyway) something like 11-OXO / 11-Lean (cheaper at smart powders) would help after running E/C for longer periods of time. The whole cortisol issue really gets blown out of proportion though. Cortisol increase from clen/EC doesnt mean a god damn thing when you're on Tren. :D
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How did the neuropathy manifest? Did a doctor say the rest of those issues were ephedrine related or is it just something you think is the case? I don't think there is such a thing as adrenal burnout either, not in the way the word is used commonly at least.
I have used more ephedrine than anyone on this forum I'm sure... I have experienced a lot of muscle tears. Haven't used it in a long time though, hard to get where I'm at. Could the ephedrine have to do with the tears? Hell I don't know. ???
One thing with ephedrine is that for me it never stopped working. In fact there appears to have been an increase in sensitivity.
Several doctors diagnosed these things... not me. I forgot to mention his type 2 diabetes.
Adrenal burnout is fake huh? Try taking E and C everyday for several years (50mgs E/400mgs 3x a day). Then stop taking it. He could not function and had to go on short term disability. He was in bed for a whole month recuperating.
Some of you guys will do/say anything to defend your crutches and vices.
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I did a mini ECA yesterday: half a bronk, a 81 mg aspirin and a couple of regular cups of coffee. Hadn't done it in a while and it was AMAZING. Don't want to get into that habit, but I will use that as required.
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Does it seriously suppress cortisol??? How is this possible for a potent stim?
I'm quite certain that was the mechanism by which it spared lean tissue when dieting. Let me try and dig some research up
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In order to down the stimulant use, this year I bought Primatine (12.5mg ephedrine) and use that along with whatever caffeine 200mg I find. I figure if it works why not use the lower dose since it does stress the body out and raise cortisol levels. If I find it is not as effective I will go back to the Brokaid 25mg.
It does mess with your sexdrive but I can't possibly imagine anything shrinking your dick. If anything I am sure a Viagra, Cialis, Levitra, or whatever else is available nowadays will counteract that.
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In order to down the stimulant use, this year I bought Primatine (12.5mg ephedrine) and use that along with whatever caffeine 200mg I find. I figure if it works why not use the lower dose since it does stress the body out and raise cortisol levels. If I find it is not as effective I will go back to the Brokaid 25mg.
It does mess with your sexdrive but I can't possibly imagine anything shrinking your dick. If anything I am sure a Viagra, Cialis, Levitra, or whatever else is available nowadays will counteract that.
Didn't mess with my dick yesterday. I could have hammered nails last night...
Maybe it wore off.
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I'm quite certain that was the mechanism by which it spared lean tissue when dieting. Let me try and dig some research up
EC could be considered "muscle sparing" because anything affecting beta 2 receptors could be. But I would not call is "anabolic" like sometimes people refer to clen being. E/C will increase cortisol (especially if used for a long time) but it's not a huge issue. So will a couple strong cups of black coffee on an empty stomach in the morning. If you want to lower it some, take 11-lean caps from smart powders or get on AAS and dont waste time thinking about it. As for E/C, catecholamines inhibit proteolysis in muscle I believe and is somewhat anti-catabolic. There have been some observations of the E/C group having more muscle at the end of dieting. But IMO, its not as pronounced as with something like clen which can literally be anti-catabolic.
No doubt that if you arent using clen or dont like the sides of clen, ECA or EC is the next best thing.
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EC could be considered "muscle sparing" because anything affecting beta 2 receptors could be. But I would not call is "anabolic" like sometimes people refer to clen being. E/C will increase cortisol (especially if used for a long time) but it's not a huge issue. So will a couple strong cups of black coffee on an empty stomach in the morning. If you want to lower it some, take 11-lean caps from smart powders or get on AAS and dont waste time thinking about it. As for E/C catecholamines inhibit proteolysis in muscle I believe which is somewhat anti-catabolic. There have been some observations of the E/C group having more muscle. But IMO, its not as pronounced as with something like clen which can literally be anti-catabolic.
Good explanation, makes sense.
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EC could be considered "muscle sparing" because anything affecting beta 2 receptors could be. But I would not call is "anabolic" like sometimes people refer to clen being. E/C will increase cortisol (especially if used for a long time) but it's not a huge issue. So will a couple strong cups of black coffee on an empty stomach in the morning. If you want to lower it some, take 11-lean caps from smart powders or get on AAS and dont waste time thinking about it. As for E/C, catecholamines inhibit proteolysis in muscle I believe and is somewhat anti-catabolic. There have been some observations of the E/C group having more muscle at the end of dieting. But IMO, its not as pronounced as with something like clen which can literally be anti-catabolic.
No doubt that if you arent using clen or dont like the sides of clen, ECA or EC is the next best thing.
eca smokes clen in every way, not even close, clen is a distant second at best.
Also studies that show an increase in cortisol are misleading. Almost like making a study saying test e will lower your test levels, which it actually does lower your test levels but replaces them ten fold.
the results of increased cortisol are lost of strength in the gym, a clear contradiction of what ephedrine does as anyone who lifts heavy knows a lift becomes stronger on ephedrine.
Better and stronger workouts, longer workouts, suppress hunger, energy and fat burning makes it king over all easily.
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eca smokes clen in every way, not even close, clen is a distant second at best.
Also studies that show an increase in cortisol are misleading. Almost like making a study saying test e will lower your test levels, which it actually does lower your test levels but replaces them ten fold.
the results of increased cortisol are lost of strength in the gym, a clear contradiction of what ephedrine does as anyone who lifts heavy knows a lift becomes stronger on ephedrine.
Better and stronger workouts, longer workouts, suppress hunger, energy and fat burning makes it king over all easily.
I prefer ECA too. For the reasons you stated, and I just feel better on it. Clen is harsh stuff. But from a raw numbers perspective, clen is going to increase the metabolism more. Does this mean its better, not necessarily. But it is more potent and is anti-catabolic. You cant just say EC is better because technically, clen is a more efficient way to boost metabolism.
Clenbuterol targets beta-2 receptors on muscle and fat tissue. EC is not a direct beta-2 agonist. EC only stimulates the release of noradrenaline which then goes on to interact with fat cells as a nonspecific adrenergic agonist. Big difference and the increase in BMR is noticeable.
EC gives a net metabolic boost of 2-4% where clen is estimated to be at about 10%. By comparison, DNP is in the 25-30% range. Clen is also legitimately anti-catabolic in nature where EC is not.
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I prefer ECA too. For the reasons you stated, and I just feel better on it. Clen is harsh stuff. But from a raw numbers perspective, clen is going to increase the metabolism more. Does this mean its better, not necessarily. But it is more potent and is anti-catabolic. You cant just say EC is better because technically, clen is a more efficient way to boost metabolism.
EC gives a net metabolic boost of 2-4% where clen is estimated to be at about 10%. By comparison, DNP is in the 25-30% range. Clen is also legitimately anti-catabolic in nature where EC is not.
agree ^^^ on all points, great post :)
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ephedrine fucks up my dick.
not cool.
will not use cause can not hit properly. :D
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Several doctors diagnosed these things... not me. I forgot to mention his type 2 diabetes.
Adrenal burnout is fake huh? Try taking E and C everyday for several years (50mgs E/400mgs 3x a day). Then stop taking it. He could not function and had to go on short term disability. He was in bed for a whole month recuperating.
Some of you guys will do/say anything to defend your crutches and vices.
Why the attacking style? I wasn't defending "a vice" and nowhere did I say ephedrine, or any medication, was side-effect free. I simply want precision and clarity from second and third hand accounts like this.
Now, 50mg 3x daily ain't shit. That's a common asthma dosage* that some people have been on for decades. Ephedrine was OTC and easily available in 50mg tablets in several countries until a couple of years ago. I've done double that for long periods. It's the caffeine that most take with it that causes a lot of the side-effects. Ephedrine isn't a very strong stimulant on its own.
As far as the adrenals, I assumed you meant "adrenal exhaustion" which indeed is a pseudoscientific term at best. There is adrenal insufficiency, but if your friend had that he was in deep shit and would have had to supplement with cortisone etc. Did he? Second problem with a case of adrenal insufficiency is proving it has to do with ephedrine intake.
See these primers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrenal_exhaustion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrenal_insufficiency
I've come off ephedrine after years of use, with no crazy withdrawals. Never stopped with caffeine though. Coming off stimulants, including, or especially caffeine can make you feel tired. Absolutely. But saying these things blow out the adrenals isn't quite proven. Caffeine is a pretty strong stimulant compared to ephedrine and I haven't seen proof that it causes "adrenal exhaustion" either, though many alternative medicine fans frequently claim this. They can't present any scientific ways to diagnose this state though, which is why it's considered unproven.
* I've posted this study before. See the dosages which caused a lady to have some problems.
Harefuah. 1994 Sep;127(5-6):166-8, 215.
[Ephedrine psychosis].
[Article in Hebrew]
Shufman NE1, Witztum E, Vass A.
Author information
Abstract
Ephedrine has both alpha- and beta-adrenergic activity, and both direct and indirect effects on receptors. Its stimulatory effects on the central nervous system are more prolonged, though less potent, than those of adrenalin. It raises blood pressure both by increasing cardiac output and inducing peripheral vasoconstriction. It is still commonly used as a bronchodilator. However, since prolonged use leads to decreased effectiveness, patients tend to increase the dose themselves. The clinical picture of ephedrine psychosis resembles that induced by amphetamines: primarily a paranoid psychosis with delusions of persecution and auditory and visual hallucinations in a setting of unclouded consciousness. We present a 57-year-old woman who had been taking a usual dose of ephedrine for bronchial asthma (50 mg 3 times a day) for more than 30 years. When her husband died she developed depression, for which she tried to use ephedrine as an antidepressive, increasing the dose to 500 to 1000 mg a day over the course of half a year. She developed paranoid psychosis with delusions of persecution and auditory hallucinations, despite a clear sensorium. Recovery was rapid after ephedrine was gradually reduced to 200 mg a day and a small dose (200 mg) of the neuroleptic thioridazine was added.
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Clen is also legitimately anti-catabolic in nature where EC is not.
Ephedrine is legitimately anti-catabolic. Studies have shown less nitrogen excretion among other things.
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noob question, is this a "homemade brew/stack"? can combining the different constituents make up this stack for easy consumption?
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noob question, is this a "homemade brew/stack"? can combining the different constituents make up this stack for easy consumption?
Of course. Just take caffeine pills with ephedrine. Some propose a 10:1 ratio of caffeine to ephedrine but I would do about 5:1. Say 20-25mg ephedrine with 100mg of caffeine 2-3 times daily to start. Both ratios work according to studies. Aspirin isn't needed, it's pretty unclear if it helps any. Aspirin isn't good on the stomach in the long run. If I did include it I would only take a 81mg baby aspirin with the first dosage, no more.
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you guys are insane aspirin damages the lining of your intestines, say hello to hernias and protruding intestines of peice, RIP aspirin users of peace
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the results of increased cortisol are lost of strength in the gym, a clear contradiction of what ephedrine does as anyone who lifts heavy knows a lift becomes stronger on ephedrine.
Cortisol isn't really the "bad guy" it's made out to be. The people who believe in adrenal exhaustion think taking stimulants make your adrenals work in overdrive leading to low cortisol eventually. Then you would be in deep shit as cortisol is a very important hormone.
Russian sports scientists/doping experts liked testing cortisol levels in their athletes... low cortisol meant they were taking too many steroids for too long. Solution was to get off or supplement with corticosteroids to "extend the cycle."
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Ephedrine is legitimately anti-catabolic. Studies have shown less nitrogen excretion among other things.
I would argue that to be muscle sparing. It is not considered anti-catabolic by the more proper definition. That would mean it has anabolic properties. Only clen has true anabolic properties. Can you at least agree on that? If so, then you would conclude EC can only be considered "muscle sparing" but not a "true" anti-catabolic i.e. anabolic in nature.
There are a few studies that point to ECA being muscle sparing. Perhaps due to its partitioning effects:
Thermogenic, metabolic, and cardiovascular responses to ephedrine and caffeine in man.
Astrup A, Toubro S.
Research Department of Human Nutrition, Royal Veterinary and Agricultural University, Copenhagen, Denmark.
To develop an appropriate combination of ephedrine and caffeine consisting of clinically relevant doses, we examined the acute thermogenic, metabolic, and cardiovascular effects of different doses of caffeine (C) and ephedrine (E) given separately and in combination to normal subjects. The thermogenic effect after E+C (20 mg/200mg) was larger than that of any other combinations, and E and C exerted a supra-additive synergism on thermogenesis and systolic blood pressure, while being without effect on diastolic blood pressure. The combination also had pronounced effects on glucose metabolism by increasing plasma glucose, insulin and C-peptide concentrations. During chronic treatment the effect of E+C on energy expenditure is maintained, while side effects subside because tolerance develops to its hemodynamic and metabolic effects. During dietary energy restriction E+C promotes fat loss and preserves fat-free mass, which may contribute to its chronic effect on energy balance. In conclusion, the hemodynamic and side effects to E+C are transient during chronic treatment, while the effect on energy expenditure persists. The compound also possesses repartitioning properties, which may be useful in the treatment of obesity.
Here is your nitrogen excretion study. This does not make it anabolic in nature like clen, Brofessor.
Effects of chronic administration of ephedrine during very-low-calorie diets on energy expenditure, protein metabolism and hormone levels in obese subjects.
Pasquali R, Casimirri F, Melchionda N, Grossi G, Bortoluzzi L, Morselli Labate AM, Stefanini C, Raitano A.
Istituto di Clinica Medica 1, Ospedale S. Orsola, University Alma Mater of Bologna, Italy.
1. We investigated the effects of the chronic administration of a sympathomimetic agent on energy expenditure, protein metabolism and levels of thyroid hormones and catecholamines in 10 obese subjects after a 6-week very-low-calorie-diet programme (1965 kJ, 60 g of protein, 45 g of carbohydrates). L-(-)-Ephedrine hydrochloride (50 mg three times a day by mouth) or placebo were administered during 2-week periods (weeks 2-5 of the VLCD programme) in a randomized, double-blind, cross-over design. Five subjects began with ephedrine and five with placebo. 2. The results were analysed separately in the two groups. No difference was found between them as regards weight loss during the very-low-calorie diet and drug treatments. Conversely, ephedrine therapy induced a significantly lower daily urinary excretion of nitrogen (and, consequently, a better nitrogen balance) with respect to placebo, independently of the drug sequence. Daily urinary levels of 3-methylhistidine during ephedrine and placebo treatments were similar. The fasting resting metabolic rate (oxygen consumption, ml STP/min) fell significantly during the very-low-calorie diet in both groups, but this effect was partially and significantly prevented by administration of ephedrine. Diet therapy significantly reduced 24 h urine levels of vanillylmandelic acid and homovanillic acid, which, however, increased to pretreatment values during ephedrine treatment. No significant effects were shown on 24 h urinary concentrations of adrenaline, noradrenaline and dopamine during the very-low-calorie diet and/or ephedrine treatment.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)
Safety and efficacy of long-term treatment with ephedrine, caffeine and an ephedrine/caffeine mixture.
Toubro S, Astrup AV, Breum L, Quaade F.
Research Department of Human Nutrition, Royal Veterinary and Agricultural University, Fredriksberg, Copenhagen, Denmark.
In a randomized, placebo-controlled, double blind study, 180 obese patients were treated by diet (4.2 MJ/day) and either an ephedrine/caffeine combination (20mg/200mg), ephedrine (20mg), caffeine (200mg) or placebo 3 times a day for 24 weeks. 141 patients completed this part of the study. All medication was stopped between week 24-26 in order to catch any withdrawal symptoms. From week 26 to 50, 99 patients completed treatment with the ephedrine/caffeine compound in an open trial design, resulting in a statistically significant (p = 0.02) weight loss of 1.1kg. In another randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled 8 week study on obese subjects we found the mentioned compound showed lean body mass conserving properties. We conclude that the ephedrine/caffeine combination is effective in improving and maintaining weight loss, further it has lean body mass saving properties. The side effects are minor and transient and no withdrawal symptoms have been found.
Compare to clen which has clearly identified anabolic properties making it a true enemy of catabolism unlike whey or HMB. http://romanoroberts.com.mx/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Clenbuterol.pdf
If you want to call muscle sparing aka promoting positive nitrogen balance/retention, "anti-catabolic," then fine. That would be true. But the reality is that would make simple whey anti-catabolic by that definition. The same with HMB, glutamine, food, any number of supplements/food would be "anti-catabolic." To me, the term anti-catabolic and/or its converse, anabolic, should be reserved for something that TRULY has anabolic properties outside of the realm of food. i.e. Clen. EC does not fit that category.
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Cortisol isn't really the "bad guy" it's made out to be. The people who believe in adrenal exhaustion think taking stimulants make your adrenals work in overdrive leading to low cortisol eventually. Then you would be in deep shit as cortisol is a very important hormone.
Russian sports scientists/doping experts liked testing cortisol levels in their athletes... low cortisol meant they were taking too many steroids for too long. Solution was to get off or supplement with corticosteroids to "extend the cycle."
oh I see. Of course stimulants should be cycled and not prolonged
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you guys are insane aspirin damages the lining of your intestines, say hello to hernias and protruding intestines of peice, RIP aspirin users of peace
well 15 years later and nothing wrong here ;)
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ephedrine fucks up my dick.
not cool.
will not use cause can not hit properly. :D
lmao, :D
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noob question, is this a "homemade brew/stack"? can combining the different constituents make up this stack for easy consumption?
eca stack is a 30 year old protocol, nothing knew about it.
200mg caffeine, 25mg ephedrine, 80mg of aspirin
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It is not considered anti-catabolic by the more proper definition. That would mean it has anabolic properties.
If you want to call muscle sparing aka promoting positive nitrogen balance/retention, "anti-catabolic," then fine. That would be true. But the reality is that would make simple whey anti-catabolic by that definition. The same with HMB, glutamine, food, any number of supplements/food would be "anti-catabolic." To me, the term anti-catabolic and/or its converse, anabolic, should be reserved for something that TRULY has anabolic properties outside of the realm of food. i.e. Clen. EC does not fit that category.
As you see there doesn't appear to be very strict agreed-upon definitions for these terms. I don't know if I've even seen the term anticatabolic in scientific literature. I think I've seen antiproteolytic though. The term anticatabolic was probably first used in some supplement ad (I remember Anti-Catabolic Fuel by Twinlab). :D
I don't think we can agree or disagree unless we define the terms. :D
I simply meant that ephedrine helps conserve muscle during diets. If clen has noticeable anabolic properties in humans, or if its muscle preserving qualities (anabolic, anticatabolic, whatever) are stronger than that of ephedrine is unknown. When clen came first came on the scene bodybuilders had high hopes for it (based on animal data) but it didn't quite pan out that way.
If I had 2 weeks to lose as much fat as possible I would pick clen over ephedrine. For a 3-4 month diet I would probably pick ephedrine. If I didn't have to choose, I would start with ephedrine and add clen later on in the diet.
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(http://31.media.tumblr.com/64ebca9b31dafd2b7ae440711e613d05/tumblr_n0xax8nmiM1rmzgv3o1_500.jpg)
LMFAO. Big ups to you. Respect.
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Of course. Just take caffeine pills with ephedrine. Some propose a 10:1 ratio of caffeine to ephedrine but I would do about 5:1. Say 20-25mg ephedrine with 100mg of caffeine 2-3 times daily to start. Both ratios work according to studies. Aspirin isn't needed, it's pretty unclear if it helps any. Aspirin isn't good on the stomach in the long run. If I did include it I would only take a 81mg baby aspirin with the first dosage, no more.
Actually aspirin is arguably the most important part of the stack...
Aspirin = salicylate
Salicylate = Activate enzyme AMPK
Enzyme AMPK = Key regulator of cell metabolism
Thusly; Aspirin switches on AMPK, increasing the breakdown of fat.
There are studies on this nowadays...
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Actually aspirin is arguably the most important part of the stack...
Aspirin = salicylate
Salicylate = Activate enzyme AMPK
Enzyme AMPK = Key regulator of cell metabolism
Thusly; Aspirin switches on AMPK, increasing the breakdown of fat.
There are studies on this nowadays...
Please hook me up. Let me see this shiat.
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(http://31.media.tumblr.com/64ebca9b31dafd2b7ae440711e613d05/tumblr_n0xax8nmiM1rmzgv3o1_500.jpg)
First thing that comes to mind:
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LOL!!!
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Please hook me up. Let me see this shiat.
One important one would be by this man:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grahame_Hardie
I believe the aspirin thing was discovered during this 2011 cancer related study by him:
http://www.biochemsoctrans.org/bst/039/bst0390001.htm
I think he was studying AMPK itself and it's effects on diabetes and cancer. One major breakthrough would be if they found a new salicylate delivery method because the long term use of aspirin has an effect on the COX-1 enzyme that has to do with mucus coatings in the digestive tract, which is why aspirin and NSAIDs etc. eventually cause at the very least small ulcers.
Pretty interesting stuff.
"I'm particularly interested in these protective effects against cancer," says Hardie. "Further research may help us discover another way of taking salicylate, other than aspirin, which has fewer side-effects."
He explains that anti-cancer effects may be due to the activity of AMPK, as diabetic drugs that target AMPK in cells are also associated with a reduced incidence of cancer
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One important one would be by this man:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grahame_Hardie
I believe the aspirin thing was discovered during this 2011 cancer related study by him:
http://www.biochemsoctrans.org/bst/039/bst0390001.htm
I think he was studying AMPK itself and it's effects on diabetes and cancer. One major breakthrough would be if they found a new salicylate delivery method because the long term use of aspirin has an effect on the COX-1 enzyme that has to do with mucus coatings in the digestive tract, which is why aspirin and NSAIDs etc. eventually cause at the very least small ulcers.
Pretty interesting stuff.
"I'm particularly interested in these protective effects against cancer," says Hardie. "Further research may help us discover another way of taking salicylate, other than aspirin, which has fewer side-effects."
He explains that anti-cancer effects may be due to the activity of AMPK, as diabetic drugs that target AMPK in cells are also associated with a reduced incidence of cancer
Alright, interesting. Though we need studies in humans to see what it really does, what doses we may need etc.
Like a study on this says:
However, one caveat is that the doses of aspirin required to activate AMPK in vivo may be higher than those used in most human studies.
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Alright, interesting. Though we need studies in humans to see what it really does, what doses we may need etc.
Like a study on this says:
studies mean jack shit nowadays, you can get anything to say anything.
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Alright, interesting. Though we need studies in humans to see what it really does, what doses we may need etc.
Like a study on this says:
Yeah. The only reason the ECA stack has the A in it is because it supposedly "mobilizes fat stores" that's the big anecdotal phrase revolving around aspirin in bodybuilding.
Whether bodybuilders knew that anecdotally or some study 30 years ago indicated as much, I dno, but bodybuilders are obsessed enough about this trivial shit that I usually just believe them. Some shit they do is clearly voodoo but the aspirin thing seems to be a well known thing. Otherwise there would be no reason to have it in a fat burning stack.
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Yeah. The only reason the ECA stack has the A in it is because it supposedly "mobilizes fat stores" that's the big anecdotal phrase revolving around aspirin in bodybuilding.
Whether bodybuilders knew that anecdotally or some study 30 years ago indicated as much, I dno, but bodybuilders are obsessed enough about this trivial shit that I usually just believe them. Some shit they do is clearly voodoo but the aspirin thing seems to be a well known thing. Otherwise there would be no reason to have it in a fat burning stack.
aspirin clears headaches and anxiety caused by ephedrine and caffeine. Its a must for me, has nothing to do with burning fat.
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aspirin clears headaches and anxiety caused by ephedrine and caffeine. Its a must for me, has nothing to do with burning fat.
Headaches and anxiety from an otc stuffy nose pill and a cup of coffee? Should look into that.
I feel nothing from ECA stack, except maybe excessive sweating, and I add 15mg of Yohimbine HCL to my ECA stack.
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Headaches and anxiety from an otc stuffy nose pill and a cup of coffee? Should look into that.
I feel nothing from ECA stack, except maybe excessive sweating, and I add 15mg of Yohimbine HCL to my ECA stack.
you take a hand full of ephedrine and do a set of 12 with 500lb on the dealifts, you will get a head ache, trust me. And anxiety is what we call ''the jitters'' everyone gets the jitters on ephedrine, if you don't then you are superman. :-\
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Yeah. The only reason the ECA stack has the A in it is because it supposedly "mobilizes fat stores" that's the big anecdotal phrase revolving around aspirin in bodybuilding.
Whether bodybuilders knew that anecdotally or some study 30 years ago indicated as much, I dno, but bodybuilders are obsessed enough about this trivial shit that I usually just believe them. Some shit they do is clearly voodoo but the aspirin thing seems to be a well known thing. Otherwise there would be no reason to have it in a fat burning stack.
Well, the aspirin part had to with reducing prostaglandin synthesis, there was a proposed mechanism behind the recommendation. The AMPK angle is a new one.
Some study said aspirin potentiated the thermogenic effect of EC and some others said it didn't.
Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 1993 Feb;17 Suppl 1:S35-40.
Ephedrine, xanthines and prostaglandin-inhibitors: actions and interactions in the stimulation of thermogenesis.
Dulloo AG.
Author information
Abstract
The pivotal role of the sympathoadrenal system in the defense of le milieu interieur has, in the last 15 years, been extended to include the fat stores-a notion that forms the basis of current strategies for thermogenic stimulation in obesity therapy. The search for effective and safe sympathetic stimulants has been directed at two main levels: (i) the development of novel beta-agonists selective for thermogenesis, and (ii) the evaluation of drugs already in clinical use for other purposes (e.g. ephedrine) which could conceivably increase the release of catecholamines to levels that enhance thermogenesis without significant cardiovascular effects. A re-direction of these strategies seem inevitable because at therapeutic doses, the thermogenic effects of these sympathomimetics seem to be considerably dampened by negative feedback mechanisms that operate both extracellularly (e.g. via adenosine & prostaglandins) as well as inside the cells (via cAMP phosphodiesterases). Such a contention is supported by studies both in man and in animals showing that methylxanthines and aspirin, drugs known to be capable of interfering with these modulators, potentiate the thermogenic effects of ephedrine. Future research aimed at clarifying the types and subtypes of these negative modulators of sympathomimetic-induced thermogenesis and their targeting by more selective antagonists would no doubt be pivotal in providing the safe drug combination with the necessary thermogenic properties to assist the management of obesity
aspirin clears headaches and anxiety caused by ephedrine and caffeine. Its a must for me, has nothing to do with burning fat.
I didn't notice any reduction in anxiety from aspirin. It did seem to increase the kick slightly, perhaps even an increase in the duration of the stimulation.
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