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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: 240 is Back on May 07, 2014, 11:43:20 AM
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I'm not talking about these "self-diagnosed" polls where people decide they support amnesty, gun control, welfare, and a dozen oother things, while at the same time saying "Ya know, I've always been conservative..."
I'm talking about the 305 million people living in this nation. The big low-populated chunks of land voting repub, and the densely populated coastlines voting democrat.
Look around you - what % of people are responsible, hard working conservatives that actually subscribe to conservative beliefs? What % of americans want ot be coddled, support liberal ideals, etc. I contend it's possible more than 50% of this country subscribes to some liberal beliefs. What say you?
Polls say YES, we are a nation of liberals...
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Isn't there actual polls that have been conducted on this?
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Isn't there actual polls that have been conducted on this?
Yes.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/166787/liberal-self-identification-edges-new-high-2013.aspx
http://www.gallup.com/poll/152021/conservatives-remain-largest-ideological-group.aspx
http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/02/the_solid_conservative_majority.html
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The Majority of Americans want to be left alone and don't really give a shit what anyone else does, as long as it doesn't affect them. A small percentage are actually right or left ideologues.
"It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent
moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his
cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our
own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their consciences."---C. S. Lewis
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Yes.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/166787/liberal-self-identification-edges-new-high-2013.aspx
http://www.gallup.com/poll/152021/conservatives-remain-largest-ideological-group.aspx
http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/02/the_solid_conservative_majority.html
and yet OB got elected to a second term.
And people still think Romney wasn't a turd.
HAHAHAHA
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and yet OB got elected to a second term.
And people still think Romney wasn't a turd.
HAHAHAHA
It's a lot more complicated than just looking at whether most Americans are conservatives versus the election results. Money, the media, Alinsky's Rules, the ground game on election day, etc. all play major factors.
Romney wasn't a turd.
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I'm talking about what YOU think of those around you. Do you look at 100 people you know and say "Yeah, at least 51 of them are totally not libs?"
You give them polls asking them if they're shitty liberals or responsible conservatives, they're going to do anything to run from the negative word "liberal". FOX new and its minions have demonized it. But do at least 50% of americans ACT like it? Be honest here.
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I'm not talking about "what do self-diagnosing polls say"?
I'm talking about what YOU see. Are at least 50.1% of people around you actual, hard working, serious, focused, productive, non-leaches that give a shit about the USA and aren't just here to milk everything they can from the federal govt teet?
I look around, and I don't see that. I see the majority as leeches and less than 50% of people are actual conservatives that subscribe to conservative ideals.
You can't be a conservative and support gun contorl, right?
You cant be a conservative and support abotion, right?
Start listing them. Maybe if you want to include self-diagnosing conservatives that support amnesty and gun contorl... yikes...
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Don't most people refer to themselves as independents, now? A real laugh, right there.
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The Majority of Americans want to be left alone and don't really give a shit what anyone else does, as long as it doesn't affect them. A small percentage are actually right or left ideologues.
"It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent
moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his
cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our
own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their consciences."---C. S. Lewis
With our technology, the robber barons have become the absolute worst sort of busybodies, though, of course. (and we should be so lucky for there to be any authentic, heartfelt morality attached whatsoever. Quite the opposite, in fact.)
It's interesting how the meaning of this quote can give such different ideas over time.
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It's a lot more complicated than just looking at whether most Americans are conservatives versus the election results. Money, the media, Alinsky's Rules, the ground game on election day, etc. all play major factors.
Romney wasn't a turd.
Sounds like then the political make up of the country is irrelevant.
Liberal Media, Liberal President, Mostly conservative country.
If money affects election results than conservatives voted for OBAMA over Romney, which for them to do that means they saw romney as a turd who because of his political party or whatever didn't feel he would serve their interests.
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Liberal Media, Liberal President, Mostly conservative country.
Really? mostly conservative? So 51% of americans are against amnesty, gun control, abortion, big govt, etc?
In that case, wowsers, the media is completely pwning the shit out of them, tricking them into nominating a RINO (romney, or mccain) and voting dem. Imagine being outsmarted by a cable news network that nobody watch that speaks to viewers at the 7th grade level.
So to be clear - at least voters are 51% conservative - BUT they're naive and stupid enough to be tricked into voting for democrats almost every time? Yikes.... I dont know what is scarier, living in a nation run by college educated liberals, or naive conservatives.
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Sounds like then the political make up of the country is irrelevant.
Liberal Media, Liberal President, Mostly conservative country.
If money affects election results than conservatives voted for OBAMA over Romney, which for them to do that means they saw romney as a turd who because of his political party or whatever didn't feel he would serve their interests.
I wouldn't say it's irrelevant. It's just complicated.
We have a mostly Republican (not necessarily conservative) government across the country (state and federal).
I know a lot of people didn't like Romney, although I'm not sure there was much crossover in 2012. People stayed home and Romney got killed in the ground game. The Obama get-out-the-vote machine was vastly superior to Romney.
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Really? mostly conservative? So 51% of americans are against amnesty, gun control, abortion, big govt, etc?
In that case, wowsers, the media is completely pwning the shit out of them, tricking them into nominating a RINO (romney, or mccain) and voting dem. Imagine being outsmarted by a cable news network that nobody watch that speaks to viewers at the 7th grade level.
So to be clear - at least voters are 51% conservative - BUT they're naive and stupid enough to be tricked into voting for democrats almost every time? Yikes.... I dont know what is scarier, living in a nation run by college educated liberals, or naive conservatives.
Maybe you should read the poll links and re post
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Maybe you should read the poll links and re post
Sorry, but I don't consider a person who says "ya know, I'm totally not liberal" to be a conservative if they support amnesty.
Do you?
See, they'll sway these polls and be counted as conservative - but they're obviously not.
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Isn't there actual polls that have been conducted on this?
Yes, every 4 years on one day in early November
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Crazy thing is, nearly every one of us wants life to be genuinely good for all.
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Sorry, but I don't consider a person who says "ya know, I'm totally not liberal" to be a conservative if they support amnesty.
Do you?
See, they'll sway these polls and be counted as conservative - but they're obviously not.
Lots of assumptions in your post. Any data to back it up?
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Yes. Turns out, they are more liberal.
America Is Becoming a Bit More Liberal. That's Pretty Unusual Six Years Into a Democratic Presidency
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2014/05/america-becoming-bit-more-liberal-thats-pretty-unusual-six-years-democratic-presi
America Is Becoming a Bit More Liberal. That's Pretty Unusual Six Years Into a Democratic Presidency.
—By Kevin Drum
| Fri May 30, 2014 12:21 PM EDT
Why are there more moderate Democrats than moderate Republicans? This has never been because Democrats are spineless wimps who won't stand up for liberal values. The main reason is simple: there aren't very many self-identified liberals in America. There never have been. Self-IDed conservatives have outnumbered self-IDed liberals by 10-15 percentage points for decades. This means that Democrats are forced to appeal more to the center than Republicans are.
But Gallup reports that this is changing. On social issues, the ID gap has narrowed to nearly zero. On economic issues conservatives still have a healthy 21 percentage point lead, but that's way down from 2010.
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Yes. Turns out, they are more liberal.
America Is Becoming a Bit More Liberal. That's Pretty Unusual Six Years Into a Democratic Presidency
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2014/05/america-becoming-bit-more-liberal-thats-pretty-unusual-six-years-democratic-presi
America Is Becoming a Bit More Liberal. That's Pretty Unusual Six Years Into a Democratic Presidency.
—By Kevin Drum
| Fri May 30, 2014 12:21 PM EDT
Why are there more moderate Democrats than moderate Republicans? This has never been because Democrats are spineless wimps who won't stand up for liberal values. The main reason is simple: there aren't very many self-identified liberals in America. There never have been. Self-IDed conservatives have outnumbered self-IDed liberals by 10-15 percentage points for decades. This means that Democrats are forced to appeal more to the center than Republicans are.
But Gallup reports that this is changing. On social issues, the ID gap has narrowed to nearly zero. On economic issues conservatives still have a healthy 21 percentage point lead, but that's way down from 2010.
Not surprised, from the "morality" they teach in school to the constant barrage of PC crap on TV. Just like every other "movement", the objective is the get to the youth.
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Not surprised, from the "morality" they teach in school to the constant barrage of PC crap on TV. Just like every other "movement", the objective is the get to the youth.
AGREED. And so many conservatives are trapped in the belief 'Oh, most people are hard working conservatives, just a few libs ruining things"
Look around anywhere you go... the majoriy of americans are liberal, tough to deny it. Now we have polling and election data that kinda proves it.
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AGREED. And so many conservatives are trapped in the belief 'Oh, most people are hard working conservatives, just a few libs ruining things"
Look around anywhere you go... the majoriy of americans are liberal, tough to deny it. Now we have polling and election data that kinda proves it.
It proves this country needs a reset......
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It proves this country needs a reset......
sadly, the repubs aren't doing that - they are moving LEFT instead. Romney supporting minimum wage. Almost all of them going for amnesty. They think the way to 'defeat' the left is to go left themselves, and maybe win over the liberal voters. In doing that, they're admitting liberals rule the country. If you can't beat em, JOIN EM!
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Nah, the majority of "Americans" are libtard socialist morons.
"Americans" because that is now a term used for the sainted, patriotic illegal immigrant invaders. Just ask Piglosi and the Democrats who in their mind is an American. Hint: It is not the tax paying LEGAL citizen.
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sadly, the repubs aren't doing that - they are moving LEFT instead. Romney supporting minimum wage. Almost all of them going for amnesty. They think the way to 'defeat' the left is to go left themselves, and maybe win over the liberal voters. In doing that, they're admitting liberals rule the country. If you can't beat em, JOIN EM!
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy."
Won't be long now........
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From a financial standpoint, I think most of the country is overly conservative.
From a social standpoint, the 1940s views are being put out to the pasture and the country is more liberal in that sense.
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From a financial standpoint, I think most of the country is overly conservative.
From a social standpoint, the 1940s views are being put out to the pasture and the country is more liberal in that sense.
Best post in this thread, imo.
Basically, the question of whether the majority of Americans are liberal or conservative is too flawed to have any kind of worthwhile answer.
Firstly, I think, because the terms "liberal" and "conservative" are relative.
Secondly, and more importantly, most people will have a mixture of liberal and conservative views that vary depending on the issue.
Kudos to 240 for this thread anyway, though. It brings up the interesting question about why so many folks avoid self-identifying as liberals when they clearly hold so many liberal views.
In general, I like 240's posts. Though he's definitely trolling at least some of the time but what he posts often seems to be the product of original thinking. Not enough of that on this board, imo.
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From a financial standpoint, I think most of the country is overly conservative.
The average US household credit card debt stands at $15191. Almost half of US households have more debt than savings. Plus U.S. personal savings rates are continuing to fall.
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The answer is yes. Tough to argue with these numbers. :( Majority of Americans are liberals, it's not really up for debate anymore.
t is a persistent belief among many in the political and media establishments, fed by decades of right-wing propaganda, that the United States is a “center-right nation” that finds progressives to be far too liberal for mainstream positions of power.
If you look purely at electoral outcomes, those who assert this appear to have a fairly strong point. The last several decades of federal politics have been dominated by center-right policies and truly left-wing politicians have been largely marginalized (e.g., Bernie Sanders). Even Clinton and Obama — the last two Democratic presidents who, theoretically, should be leftists — are corporate-friendly moderates who have triangulated during negotiations with Republicans to pass center-right policy compromises (e.g., Obama’s Heritage Foundation-inspired ACA or the Clinton Defense of Marriage Act compromise).
While electoral results may support the idea of a center-right nation, looking beyond electoral politics — which involve a mixture of policy choices, party politics, fundraising and propaganda — and focusing purely upon raw policy preferences leaves us with an entirely different picture.
Here is a compilation of polling data from various reputable American polling organizations, describing the policy preferences of the Americans people over the last year.
And if your only defense is to attack the source- read it - they cite a whole lot of far-right polling sources. Everyone says the same thing. Libs have taken over.
http://www.salon.com/2014/07/28/gops_30_year_spin_job_is_over_why_we_are_not_a_center_right_nation/
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Yes.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/166787/liberal-self-identification-edges-new-high-2013.aspx
http://www.gallup.com/poll/152021/conservatives-remain-largest-ideological-group.aspx
http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/02/the_solid_conservative_majority.html
The facts.
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The facts.
I dunno... when asked to self-identify, everyone screams "independent" or "conservative" because the word LIBERAL has been demonized so much.
but when asked to take positions on the issues, the majority of Americans choose pretty liberal positions.
common sense tells us people don't think they're liberals, they don't want to be called liberals, but they agree with liberals on the majority of the issues ;)
So either they don't understand the fact their core beliefs overlap with liberals on almost everything, or they're in denial. Either way, um, they're liberals, like it or not.
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Two polls in January 2014 confirm what I have written about for quite a while: America -- and this means not just Flyover Country, but nearly all of America -- is solidly conservative.
The Battleground Poll shows that a very solid majority of Americans describe themselves as conservative. This poll has been remarkably accurate in predicting the outcome of elections. The internal data of the Battleground Poll, unlike many other polls, is publicly reported.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/02/the_solid_conservative_majority.html
Exactly. Consistent with my experience interacting with people all over the country.
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Quoting Mother Jones and Democratic Underground. Priceless. ;)
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a very solid majority of Americans describe themselves as conservative.
Dude, there are a handful of people on the getbig political board who call themselves "very conservative" and who dislike liberals on a daily basis... yet they voted Clinton, they are a-okay with amnesty, etc.
Calling oneself conservative, while supporting so many lib causes, doesn't make one a conservative. You might think it does, that's cool.
Proof is in pudding--- americans keep choosing liberal presidents that line up with their liberal beliefs. They talk about hating liberals and loving conservatism, but they have lib positions and choose lib candidates.
You keep on citing polls where people SELF DESCRIBE. I'll keep citing polls where people consistently do this while chosing LIB POSITIONS ON THE ISSUES.
if you can't see the difference, sorry, but I think most getbiggers here will. They're self-described conservatives who vote lib and have lib positions. They're not really conservatives, dude.
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Dude, there are a handful of people on the getbig political board who call themselves "very conservative" and who dislike liberals on a daily basis... yet they voted Clinton, they are a-okay with amnesty, etc.
Calling oneself conservative, while supporting so many lib causes, doesn't make one a conservative. You might think it does, that's cool.
Proof is in pudding--- americans keep choosing liberal presidents that line up with their liberal beliefs. They talk about hating liberals and loving conservatism, but they have lib positions and choose lib candidates.
You keep on citing polls where people SELF DESCRIBE. I'll keep citing polls where people consistently do this while chosing LIB POSITIONS ON THE ISSUES.
if you can't see the difference, sorry, but I think most getbiggers here will. They're self-described conservatives who vote lib and have lib positions. They're not really conservatives, dude.
Ya mean if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck but says it's not a duck it might still be a duck?
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Ya mean if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck but says it's not a duck it might still be a duck?
Yes. This middle 10% of the population... they're wearing a shirt that says "Keep Calm and Swan On!" and telling everyone they're a beautiful swan... but their mama is a duck, their daddy is a duck, they have webbed toes and they're leaving duck shit everywhere.
But in a self-reported poll on Brietbart, this animal is a swan, by golly, because he said so.
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Dude, there are a handful of people on the getbig political board who call themselves "very conservative" and who dislike liberals on a daily basis... yet they voted Clinton, they are a-okay with amnesty, etc.
Calling oneself conservative, while supporting so many lib causes, doesn't make one a conservative. You might think it does, that's cool.
Proof is in pudding--- americans keep choosing liberal presidents that line up with their liberal beliefs. They talk about hating liberals and loving conservatism, but they have lib positions and choose lib candidates.
You keep on citing polls where people SELF DESCRIBE. I'll keep citing polls where people consistently do this while chosing LIB POSITIONS ON THE ISSUES.
if you can't see the difference, sorry, but I think most getbiggers here will. They're self-described conservatives who vote lib and have lib positions. They're not really conservatives, dude.
Yes, I understand your world view is formed based on what a handful of anonymous people and gimmicks say on a message board. That explains a lot.
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Yes, I understand your world view is formed based on what a handful of anonymous people and gimmicks say on a message board. That explains a lot.
You seem to be losing the plot here, BB.
240 isn't saying jack about his own world view, he's talking about how the political opinions of many self-described conservatives (both on GB and in the USA in general) support liberal policies. He's posted links supporting these ideas.
You're just crabby and predisposed to personally insulting folks today, seems to me. Actually, there's nothing too wrong with that (lol) but how about doing it and staying on point in the discussion, too? Is that asking too much?
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You seem to be losing the plot here, BB.
240 isn't saying jack about his own world view, he's talking about how the political opinions of many self-described conservatives (both on GB and in the USA in general) support liberal policies. He's posted links supporting these ideas.
You're just crabby and predisposed to personally insulting folks today, seems to me. Actually, there's nothing too wrong with that (lol) but how about doing it and staying on point in the discussion, too? Is that asking too much?
*yawn*
I know you have trouble focusing, but I posted links and excerpts in this thread. Maybe you should read them. You might learn something.
And you should stay out of the way of my occasional toying with my personal whipping boy. Don't interfere with my Monday entertainment.
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And you should stay out of the way of my occasional toying with my personal whipping boy. Don't interfere with my Monday entertainment.
OK. Man, you surprise me here.
(I would like you more if you'd say things like this more often.)
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OK. Man, you surprise me here.
(I would like you more if you'd say things like this more often.)
::)
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Yes, I understand your world view is formed based on what a handful of anonymous people and gimmicks say on a message board. That explains a lot.
you don't win many arguments on getbig these days. your debate is outright garbage now.
I don't think any getbiggers will chime in to defend you either. You change subject to insults, you roll eyes, and you generally just derail things. And not in an entertaining way, rather, in a dumb and boring way.
The simple issue here is "self-described" versus where they sit on the actual issues. There's a huge disconnect here.
please, BB, let's not have getbig suck so much anymore. Let's have good debates again here. Most of teh regulars are gone now, this place is lame lately.
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you don't win many arguments on getbig these days. your debate is outright garbage now.
I don't think any getbiggers will chime in to defend you either. You change subject to insults, you roll eyes, and you generally just derail things. And not in an entertaining way, rather, in a dumb and boring way.
The simple issue here is "self-described" versus where they sit on the actual issues. There's a huge disconnect here.
please, BB, let's not have getbig suck so much anymore. Let's have good debates again here. Most of teh regulars are gone now, this place is lame lately.
I'm not arguing about anything. This isn't a debate. I am mocking you. The fact you think people are "winning" or "losing" "debates" on this message board further shows how small your world is.
I know this is an adult playground, but nobody needs defenders on here. lol
The only thing that has really changed on the board is the over-the-top stalking by Soul Crusher groupies. Other than that, it's the same. People come and go. "Regulars" take breaks. Soul Crusher posts every day. You lie or embellish every day. Same old same old.
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you don't win many arguments on getbig these days. your debate is outright garbage now.
I don't think any getbiggers will chime in to defend you either. You change subject to insults, you roll eyes, and you generally just derail things. And not in an entertaining way, rather, in a dumb and boring way.
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Not to pile on, but I agree with this.
Earlier today, I was reading an old, old thread that SC brought back from the dead (as he likes to do) and was surprised at how well-reasoned BB's posts were a few years ago when contrasted with how he usually writes now.
Makes me feel like a dick for making old-age cracks if he really is suffering from some age-related issues. Hopefully it's only because he's taken to drinking during the day. lol
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I'm not arguing about anything. This isn't a debate. I am mocking you. The fact you think people are "winning" or "losing" "debates" on this message board further shows how small your world is.
I know this is an adult playground, but nobody needs defenders on here. lol
The only thing that has really changed on the board is the over-the-top stalking by Soul Crusher groupies. Other than that, it's the same. People come and go. "Regulars" take breaks. Soul Crusher posts every day. You lie or embellish every day. Same old same old.
(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/4216032/lavelle-shaking-head-o.gif)
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I'm not arguing about anything. This isn't a debate. I am mocking you. The fact you think people are "winning" or "losing" "debates" on this message board further shows how small your world is.
I know this is an adult playground, but nobody needs defenders on here. lol
The only thing that has really changed on the board is the over-the-top stalking by Soul Crusher groupies. Other than that, it's the same. People come and go. "Regulars" take breaks. Soul Crusher posts every day. You lie or embellish every day. Same old same old.
Translation: Yeah, I'm mailing it in. So what?
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Translation: Yeah, I'm mailing it in. So what?
I think this is the part where we starting talking about each other's mother. I'll start: your momma is so dumb she thought a quarterback was a refund.
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I think this is the part where we starting talking about each other's mother. I'll start: your momma is so dumb she thought a quarterback was a refund.
(http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lyhg28Wzes1rnq3i2o2_400.gif)
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I think this is the part where we starting talking about each other's mother. I'll start: your momma is so dumb she thought a quarterback was a refund.
LOL.
Even with respect to insults, you're mailing it in, eh?
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LOL.
Even with respect to insults, you're mailing it in, eh?
That's all you got? I have lots of momma jokes. :)
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That's all you got? I have lots of momma jokes. :)
Yeah, I'm sure you would rather tell old, tired jokes instead of reason comprehensibly.
Personally, I rather head off to the gym.
Cya.
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I'm not arguing about anything. This isn't a debate. I am mocking you. The fact you think people are "winning" or "losing" "debates" on this message board further shows how small your world is.
I know this is an adult playground, but nobody needs defenders on here. lol
The only thing that has really changed on the board is the over-the-top stalking by Soul Crusher groupies. Other than that, it's the same. People come and go. "Regulars" take breaks. Soul Crusher posts every day. You lie or embellish every day. Same old same old.
HAHAHAHA the hypocrite cements his status on the board.
So you :
1 - don't think Pole Toucher lies or embellishes his threads constantly?
2 - As far as defenders go, I can only thing of one little midget that has to have a personal body guard deleting things for him when the obvious becomes, well... too obvious.
3 - You have greatly increased your stock of Stupidity in the last few months. Instead of an instant meltdown, you are going for a long simmering slow burn type of implosion. That sucks. For you.
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HAHAHAHA the hypocrite cements his status on the board.
So you :
1 - don't think Pole Toucher lies or embellishes his threads constantly?
2 - As far as defenders go, I can only thing of one little midget that has to have a personal body guard deleting things for him when the obvious becomes, well... too obvious.
3 - You have greatly increased your stock of Stupidity in the last few months. Instead of an instant meltdown, you are going for a long simmering slow burn type of implosion. That sucks. For you.
Yes, you definitely have a problem. :-\ What did Soul Crusher do to make you so obsessed with him?
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Yes, you definitely have a problem. :-\ What did Soul Crusher do to make you so obsessed with him?
My reply was directed at YOU.
Nice attempt at deflection. Again. You failed. Again. No surprise though.
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My reply was directed at YOU.
Nice attempt at deflection. Again. You failed. Again. No surprise though.
Why are you so obsessed with Soul Crusher? How many pictures of Soul Crusher do you have on your hard drive?
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My reply was directed at YOU.
Nice attempt at deflection. Again. You failed. Again. No surprise though.
x2
Look at the little hypocrite. Clinging to his deflection attempt like a drowning man hugging a life preserver.
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This has never been because Democrats are spineless wimps
Dems aren't as wimpy as we thought.
They were kicking the crap out of the Trump supporter who threw the first punch last week.
Tough to cry how you want to make america great again... when you punch a mexican FIRST for trying to take your shirt, and he still whoops your ass.