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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: deceiver on June 03, 2014, 05:03:44 PM

Title: Impeccable Logic by John Meadows re protein synthesis.
Post by: deceiver on June 03, 2014, 05:03:44 PM
http://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/intermittent-fasting-kills-muscle

Quote
Most IF plans tout the benefits of fasted weight training. Some suggest 10 g of BCAA during training. But according to the study, consuming leucine (BCAA) without ample carbohydrate present prevented protein synthesis. In other words, any possibility of gaining muscle is eliminated when training in a fasted state, even when consuming BCAA.

Yes sir, IMPECCABLE LOGIC.

I am well aware that this imbecile reads our board so, especially for simpletons like him, I will destroy this short "column" in points.

1. Study on rats. Do I really have to add anything here?
2. Study has nothing to do with weight training.
3. Study does not prove that either group of rats has, at the end, gained more muscle mass than the other.
4. IF does not mean you train fasted...
5. On the whole, study is irrelevant and does not prove many things he claims in his article, ie. that IF "slows down" metabolism.
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: dr.chimps on June 03, 2014, 05:05:31 PM
Cliffs: You hate rats.
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: _aj_ on June 03, 2014, 05:17:00 PM
If JM got them gainz just using IF and BCAAs, he's a jeanyus. We should all bow down to our new natty master.
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: AlphaMaleDawg on June 03, 2014, 06:05:07 PM
LOL at you challenging John Meadows. When you have top pros paying you shit loads of money for his bodybuilding and health advice, come talk to us.
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: ProudVirgin69 on June 03, 2014, 06:36:27 PM
5. On the whole, study is irrelevant and does not prove many things he claims in his article, ie. that IF "slows down" metabolism.

The study they quoted had absolutely nothing to do with the claims they made....

In short, rats were deprived of food for 12 hours, then given a meal containing 20% protein.  Rats that were given leucine and/or carbohydrates at 135 minutes after the meal maintained peak muscle synthesis through 180 minutes.  In contrast, rats that were given water at 135 exhibited peak muscle synthesis at 90 minutes and returned to baseline at 180 minutes.

This had absolutely NOTHING to do with their claim of "But according to the study, consuming leucine (BCAA) without ample carbohydrate present prevented protein synthesis. In other words, any possibility of gaining muscle is eliminated when training in a fasted state, even when consuming BCAA."  Nor did it have anything to do with training while fasted.

I know T-Nation is a snake-oil company, but REALLY???  Did they not expect anyone to read this study?
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: Schnauzer on June 03, 2014, 06:45:36 PM
(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/63/6381fe1fcdc53547e5f55ad6326af9af59963b894c2e2f423e957f649bc198f4.jpg)
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: Bevo on June 03, 2014, 06:48:03 PM
LOL at you challenging John Meadows. When you have top pros paying him shit loads of money for his bodybuilding and health advice, come talk to us.

I'd rather pay Kamali for health advices
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: Nails on June 03, 2014, 06:52:06 PM
i doubt any pro bodybuilder ever consumes BCAA
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: Coach is Back! on June 03, 2014, 06:52:41 PM
LOL at you challenging John Meadows. When you have top pros paying him shit loads of money for his bodybuilding and health advice, come talk to us.

^^^this
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: Coach is Back! on June 03, 2014, 06:53:46 PM
http://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/intermittent-fasting-kills-muscle

Yes sir, IMPECCABLE LOGIC.

I am well aware that this imbecile reads our board so, especially for simpletons like him, I will destroy this short "column" in points.

1. Study on rats. Do I really have to add anything here?
2. Study has nothing to do with weight training.
3. Study does not prove that either group of rats has, at the end, gained more muscle mass than the other.
4. IF does not mean you train fasted...
5. On the whole, study is irrelevant and does not prove many things he claims in his article, ie. that IF "slows down" metabolism.

Feel free to jump on Elitefts.com and challenge him on this.
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: Mawse on June 03, 2014, 06:55:30 PM
 The results of the study would have been markedly different if the rats had consumed grass fed beef, organic butter and red palm oil and supplemented with a selection of T-Nations excellent line of products.

I also highly doubt the rats performed Landmine Rows during their training sessions which also skews the results significantly
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: _aj_ on June 03, 2014, 07:01:32 PM
The results of the study would have been markedly different if the rats had consumed grass fed beef, organic butter and red palm oil and supplemented with a selection of T-Nations excellent line of products.

I also highly doubt the rats performed Landmine Rows during their training sessions which also skews the results significantly
:D
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: wolfrittner on June 03, 2014, 07:17:41 PM
I'd rather pay Kamali for health advices
:D :D
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: Hulkotron on June 03, 2014, 07:20:25 PM
The results of the study would have been markedly different if the rats had consumed grass fed beef, organic butter and red palm oil and supplemented with a selection of T-Nations excellent line of products.

I also highly doubt the rats performed Landmine Rows during their training sessions which also skews the results significantly

x2
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: polychronopolous on June 03, 2014, 07:21:29 PM
Jason Blaha said you can eat unlimited carbs on tren and not gain an ounce of fat cause bulls that take tren are ripped.
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: tommywishbone on June 03, 2014, 07:24:37 PM
meltdown
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: BayGBM on June 03, 2014, 07:24:47 PM
LOL at you challenging John Meadows. When you have top pros paying him shit loads of money for his bodybuilding and health advice, come talk to us.

x2
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: no one on June 03, 2014, 07:51:26 PM
The results of the study would have been markedly different if the rats had consumed grass fed beef, organic butter and red palm oil and supplemented with a selection of T-Nations excellent line of products.

I also highly doubt the rats performed Landmine Rows during their training sessions which also skews the results significantly

awesome :D
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: Bevo on June 03, 2014, 08:16:14 PM
x2


That's just an excuse to post up one of your male fantasies  :D
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: LurkerNoMore on June 03, 2014, 08:20:47 PM
John Meadows has some damn good training and diet advice.  Though I am sure you have many more satisfied clients who are better built and place higher.
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: ESFitness on June 03, 2014, 08:27:40 PM
there's not many ppl I'd pay money to get advice from, but john is one of them.

Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: Big Chiro Flex on June 03, 2014, 08:35:18 PM
Meadows is prob my favorite writer/coach in the industry. This article is not his best work. Dude is great.
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: trapz101 on June 03, 2014, 08:37:41 PM
too much fancy training style,but his clients all came up shredded
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: TEMPER on June 03, 2014, 08:40:40 PM
$700 for a plan.

I'll break it down.

Grass fed organics everything.
Trader Joe's everything

Here is where you really get your moneys worth.

Pre workout carb powder

PERI-WORKOUT carb powder

Post workout carb powder...

Body weight in protein
Bodyweight in carbs
150 fat

BLah blah. Now pay me $700 please...
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: Big Chiro Flex on June 03, 2014, 08:41:46 PM
too much fancy training style,but his clients all came up shredded

 ???

My training partner is a client of his. I've been doing his exact program for 9 weeks. Have you even seen his actual training plans he gives his clients ??? It's all of the basics with 1-2 "meadows" exercises thrown In there. Hardly fancy unless you're overwhelmed by a new grip or adding a supination to a standard movement.
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: ProudVirgin69 on June 03, 2014, 08:44:22 PM
Feel free to jump on Elitefts.com and challenge him on this.

Did you bother to read the study cited in the article?  Don't bother answering, it's obvious you didn't

x2

Certainly looks like the picture of health here
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: FermiDirac on June 03, 2014, 10:46:44 PM
Lol @ Meadows

Did he even attend college? Or is he just another slow-talking-fake-intellectual like Kai?
The latter would seem probable, as a 40+ old dude on gear worries about the health effects of grass fed beef vs ordinary when he's juicing his brains out.  ::)

He strikes me as a typical lying moron. He cleverly stuck to posting the abstract of the article in order to increase the credibility of his claims. This is typical ad hoc reasoning, he posts what he find supports his vision, not the things contradicting him. Unless he's an MD or have a degree in biochemistry he should shut his juicing trap and stick to his "grass fed" ramblings. Hope that grass fed beef and coconut oil keeps his liver and kidneys safe.

For any non-illiterate here who managed to get through high school, here is the actual study. (http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/301/6/E1236.short)

HTH
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: bentone on June 03, 2014, 10:55:35 PM
Deceiver is a fucking dipshit. John Meadows is one of the smartest and most thoughtful guys in the business. Chalk this thread up to another knowing nothing fucktard trying to sounds intelligent.
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: ESFitness on June 03, 2014, 11:11:47 PM
Lol @ Meadows

Did he even attend college? Or is he just another slow-talking-fake-intellectual like Kai?
The latter would seem probable, as a 40+ old dude on gear worries about the health effects of grass fed beef vs ordinary when he's juicing his brains out.  ::)

He strikes me as a typical lying moron. He cleverly stuck to posting the abstract of the article in order to increase the credibility of his claims. This is typical ad hoc reasoning, he posts what he find supports his vision, not the things contradicting him. Unless he's an MD or have a degree in biochemistry he should shut his juicing trap and stick to his "grass fed" ramblings. Hope that grass fed beef and coconut oil keeps his liver and kidneys safe.

For any non-illiterate here who managed to get through high school, here is the actual study. (http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/301/6/E1236.short)

HTH

well, he does consult with Eric Serrano often. so it' snot like he's just coming up with hairbrained ideas and not 'fact-checking' them.

he does what every other 'scientist', or at least any other intelligent person, would do... identify a problem or question.. explore options.. form a hypothesis.. test the hypothesis... get opinions.. make adjustments.. repeat over and over and see if you can replicate the results (not just in yourself, but in others).. ect ect ect...

he's not just a fella who just says "oh.. well I think if 3 of this is good, lets do 7, and add 4 of that, and 3 of the other" without rhyme or reason.
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: trapz101 on June 03, 2014, 11:20:57 PM
Lol @ Meadows

Did he even attend college? Or is he just another slow-talking-fake-intellectual like Kai?
The latter would seem probable, as a 40+ old dude on gear worries about the health effects of grass fed beef vs ordinary when he's juicing his brains out.  ::)

He strikes me as a typical lying moron. He cleverly stuck to posting the abstract of the article in order to increase the credibility of his claims. This is typical ad hoc reasoning, he posts what he find supports his vision, not the things contradicting him. Unless he's an MD or have a degree in biochemistry he should shut his juicing trap and stick to his "grass fed" ramblings. Hope that grass fed beef and coconut oil keeps his liver and kidneys safe.

For any non-illiterate here who managed to get through high school, here is the actual study. (http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/301/6/E1236.short)

HTH


he's a life member of MENSA
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: cephissus on June 03, 2014, 11:27:20 PM
he does what every other 'scientist', or at least any other intelligent person, would do... identify a problem or question.. explore options.. form a hypothesis.. test the hypothesis... get opinions.. make adjustments.. repeat over and over and see if you can replicate the results (not just in yourself, but in others).. ect ect ect...

LMAO, hilarious description of "science"... oh brother
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: Coach is Back! on June 03, 2014, 11:30:30 PM
LOL@ all of the credentialed geniuses on here calling Meadows out...hahaha. 
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: ESFitness on June 03, 2014, 11:36:07 PM
LMAO, hilarious description of "science"... oh brother

ok, genius... feel free to Google "scientific method"

copy and paste it here for all to see. I'm too busy at the moment, else I'd do it for you.

you should just leave trolling to the elderly.
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: Coach is Back! on June 03, 2014, 11:48:32 PM
ok, genius... feel free to Google "scientific method"

copy and paste it here for all to see. I'm too busy at the moment, else I'd do it for you.

you should just leave trolling to the elderly.

Dude, it's simple. Call him out on elite. He's not hard to get a hold of. Email him.
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: FermiDirac on June 03, 2014, 11:49:45 PM
LOL@ all of the credentialed geniuses on here calling Meadows out...hahaha. 

You do realise that claims deduced from scientific material needs to be backed up by evidence?

I get that you're not holding on to a university degree, but you do have to realise that in the real world, outside of your beloved beddybelding world, people can't just make up claims based on heuristics and call it facts. A coach/trainer/whatever in this industry holds little to no scientific credibility in the real world, especially when they cannot support their claim with evidence.
People are so gullible in the bodybuilding industry it boggles my mind. Some "guru" rambles, cites a journal and calls it a day. The gullible morons who then wants to pack on mass and pretend they understood the context then takes the ramblings as truths, instead of actually reading up on the subject and creating their own opinion.
If some pseudointellectual would have made similar claims in any other science they would have been laughed off and ridiculed, but in this industry heuristics and ramblings have apparently more credibility than scientific research.  

Compare ramblings in training/meidicine/dieting vs ramblings in physics, in one you are apparently "entitled" to an opinion, in the other you are not. Medicine and biochemistry should be treated in the same manner as any other serious science in this industry.
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" as Carl Sagan so eloquently put it.

P.S. I'm aware of the meltdown alert.  :-*
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: FermiDirac on June 03, 2014, 11:55:47 PM
Although, I wouldn't go as far as calling him a moron. He does provide useful information and has a lot of experience in the field of training. He has helped a lot of people during his career, which is commendable.

I just think that this "article" he wrote was a bit over his head.
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: Bevo on June 04, 2014, 01:58:52 AM
Meadows is prob my favorite writer/coach in the industry. This article is not his best work. Dude is great.

He was the same guy Bostin was using prior to Palumbo?
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: deceiver on June 04, 2014, 02:12:44 AM
You do realise that claims deduced from scientific material needs to be backed up by evidence?

I get that you're not holding on to a university degree, but you do have to realise that in the real world, outside of your beloved beddybelding world, people can't just make up claims based on heuristics and call it facts. A coach/trainer/whatever in this industry holds little to no scientific credibility in the real world, especially when they cannot support their claim with evidence.
People are so gullible in the bodybuilding industry it boggles my mind. Some "guru" rambles, cites a journal and calls it a day. The gullible morons who then wants to pack on mass and pretend they understood the context then takes the ramblings as truths, instead of actually reading up on the subject and creating their own opinion.
If some pseudointellectual would have made similar claims in any other science they would have been laughed off and ridiculed, but in this industry heuristics and ramblings have apparently more credibility than scientific research.  

Compare ramblings in training/meidicine/dieting vs ramblings in physics, in one you are apparently "entitled" to an opinion, in the other you are not. Medicine and biochemistry should be treated in the same manner as any other serious science in this industry.
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" as Carl Sagan so eloquently put it.

P.S. I'm aware of the meltdown alert.  :-*

This.
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: WillGrant on June 04, 2014, 02:20:34 AM
Dude, it's simple. Call him out on elite. He's not hard to get a hold of. Email him.
He posts on PM and MD also , very helpful and answers questions with easy to understand rhetoric
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: MONSTER_TRICEPS on June 04, 2014, 02:24:27 AM
"elite"fts  ::)

Wearing beanies in summer, high bloodpressure, and sumo stance shallow squats.

(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/images/300x/5165573.jpg)
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: SuperTed on June 04, 2014, 02:24:32 AM
I see Meadows in a similar mould to guys like Palumbo, Poliquin and Thibaudeau.
If you're a paying customer, you probably will get some great assistance and advice from them.
However, the stuff they provide for free is often questionable at best and they will pimp themselves out to any shitty supplement brand.
Meadow, like the others, would probably tell you that the Sun revolves around the Earth if you paid him enough to do so. :D
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: _aj_ on June 04, 2014, 02:26:41 AM
You do realise that claims deduced from scientific material needs to be backed up by evidence?

I get that you're not holding on to a university degree, but you do have to realise that in the real world, outside of your beloved beddybelding world, people can't just make up claims based on heuristics and call it facts. A coach/trainer/whatever in this industry holds little to no scientific credibility in the real world, especially when they cannot support their claim with evidence.

The described bastardization of "science" is currently all the rage in the annals of "Climate" ( ::) ) "Scientists" (oh brother) and frankly any other place where public policy is "informed" by "science".
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: AlphaMaleDawg on June 04, 2014, 04:52:20 AM
Lol @ Meadows

Did he even attend college? Or is he just another slow-talking-fake-intellectual like Kai?
The latter would seem probable, as a 40+ old dude on gear worries about the health effects of grass fed beef vs ordinary when he's juicing his brains out.  ::)

He strikes me as a typical lying moron. He cleverly stuck to posting the abstract of the article in order to increase the credibility of his claims. This is typical ad hoc reasoning, he posts what he find supports his vision, not the things contradicting him. Unless he's an MD or have a degree in biochemistry he should shut his juicing trap and stick to his "grass fed" ramblings. Hope that grass fed beef and coconut oil keeps his liver and kidneys safe.

For any non-illiterate here who managed to get through high school, here is the actual study. (http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/301/6/E1236.short)

HTH

So when one takes steroids, they should make no effort to try and do everything else as healthy as possible? It's all about damage control, and Meadows is the master when it comes to safety on steroids. You'd be surprised how much better your bloodwork will look on steroids when you eat and supplement completely healthy, compared to eating junk on steroids. I would know.
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: trapz101 on June 04, 2014, 06:02:53 AM
I see Meadows in a similar mould to guys like Palumbo, Poliquin and Thibaudeau.
If you're a paying customer, you probably will get some great assistance and advice from them.
However, the stuff they provide for free is often questionable at best and they will pimp themselves out to any shitty supplement brand.
Meadow, like the others, would probably tell you that the Sun revolves around the Earth if you paid him enough to do so. :D


this
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: Alpine on June 04, 2014, 06:20:33 AM
"elite"fts  ::)

Wearing beanies in summer, high bloodpressure, and sumo stance shallow squats.

(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/images/300x/5165573.jpg)

LOL POWER LIFTER POST OF PEACE. Power lifters are just fat guys who realized they would never have the genetics to look decent.

That said, JM is a smart man. I've listened to his radio show forever. He does know what he's talking about. It's more of a real world, trial and error based first hand knowledge. He's not some guy who spouts off about studies constantly.

As for Leucine, its HIGHLY insulinogenic which a lot of people dont realize. Its like consuming pure glucose (actually moreso). So people do IF or fasted cardio yet slam BCAA before they do it. They are spiking insulin and defeating the purpose of the IF or fast which is to keep blood sugar low. When you spike insulin you blunt the release & use of free fatty acids (FFA). So if you were doing fasted AM cardio on GH to maximize FFA release/use (Lipogenesis) you would actually be hurting this process by taking a bunch of BCAA and spiking insulin before it. I see people doing IF or fasted cardio talk about utilizing BCAA before all the time and I just shake my head. This "fear" of going catabolic during fasted cardio is a myth - especially if you are on GH.

JM "Mountain Dog" Diet

(http://img.tapatalk.com/4ac6a4e5-141f-0911.jpg)
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: deceiver on June 04, 2014, 06:22:56 AM
So when one takes steroids, they should make no effort to try and do everything else as healthy as possible? It's all about damage control, and Meadows is the master when it comes to safety on steroids. You'd be surprised how much better your bloodwork will look on steroids when you eat and supplement completely healthy, compared to eating junk on steroids. I would know.

Dude, don't you find it pretty ironic that the biggest advocate of "safe" approach to steroids and "healthy" food has body and face deformed by them? Not even mentioning the purple color everywhere.

(http://articles.elitefts.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/MeadowsStarnes.jpg)

Is this really a picture of good health to you?

He can spit whatever bullshit out of his mouth but his body DOES NOT LIE.
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: bigmikecox on June 04, 2014, 06:23:15 AM
Ive known him for a minute. John knows his shit.
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: deceiver on June 04, 2014, 06:29:18 AM
Ive known him for a minute. John knows his shit.

No he does not. I know plenty of IFers and:

1. None of them was stuck at any bodyfat.
2. None of them had slowed down metabolism.

On top of that, notion that IF slows down metabolism has been disproven without leaving any shed of doubt by science.

Galeniko and no one from our own forum do their own version of IF. They even fast longer than standard IF protocols suggest. Skinnyfat and small? I don't fucking think so.
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: Man of Steel on June 04, 2014, 06:30:43 AM
Is John a pro bb?
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: _aj_ on June 04, 2014, 06:35:52 AM
He has an aesthetic look about him...

(http://files.doobybrain.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/barney-big-orig.jpg)
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: Alpine on June 04, 2014, 06:35:57 AM
Is John a pro bb?

He does not have his pro card. He's like 42 and making a final run at it now. He's a well respected trainer though and has a lot of credibility behind him. He's always been dense and grainy as hell, I am not sure how he didnt get a card while someone like Shelby Starnes did (not a slam). JM trains (or has trained) Antoine Vaillant, Matt Kroc, Dugdale, Amit Sapir, Brandon Lily (PL) just to name a few more well known guys.
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: Man of Steel on June 04, 2014, 06:38:47 AM
He does not have his pro card. He's like 42 and making a final run at it now. He's a well respected trainer though and has a lot of credibility behind him. He's always been dense and grainy as hell, I am not sure how he didnt get a card while someone like Shelby Starnes did (not a slam). JM trains (or has trained) Antoine Vaillant, Matt Kroc, Dugdale, Amit Sapir, Brandon Lily (PL) just to name a few more well known guys.

So without sounding insulting, John is a guru/expert trainer in bb that never made it as a pro, but he's giving it one more good shot at becoming one......hope he lives the dream!!!
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: Alpine on June 04, 2014, 06:47:41 AM
So without sounding insulting, John is a guru/expert trainer in bb that never made it as a pro, but he's giving it one more good shot at becoming one......hope he lives the dream!!!

If you google his images you will see he's no stranger to freaky physique and contest condition. There really seems to be no great reason why he hasnt got a pro card. His physique certainly warrants it imo.

(http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/attachments/members-photos/70436d1401759716-5-weeks-out-pic-5-weeks-out-mm.jpg)

This is from this past weekend. 5 weeks out. 235 in pic. 42 years old
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: ProudVirgin69 on June 04, 2014, 06:47:55 AM
As for Leucine, its HIGHLY insulinogenic which a lot of people dont realize. Its like consuming pure glucose (actually moreso)

Although it is certainly insulinogenic, it is not comparable to glucose otherwise you would go hypoglycemic after consuming nothing but leucine
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: ProudVirgin69 on June 04, 2014, 06:49:00 AM
If you google his images you will see he's no stranger to freaky physique and contest condition. There really seems to be no great reason why he hasnt got a pro card. His physique certainly warrants it imo.

(http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/attachments/members-photos/70436d1401759716-5-weeks-out-pic-5-weeks-out-mm.jpg)

This is from this past weekend. 5 weeks out. 235 in pic. 42 years old

Find pictures of him on stage and i think you'll see why.  His physique, although ripped & muscular, is not aesthetically pleasing
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: Alpine on June 04, 2014, 06:51:09 AM
Find pictures of him on stage and i think you'll see why.  His physique, although ripped & muscular, is not aesthetically pleasing

The raw genetic potential is not there, I agree. But I think he is one of the hardest training people I have seen. He's taken average genetics to the next level with pure hardcore dieting and extremely smart and intense training.

2012 North Americans
(http://gallery.rxmuscle.com/newgallery/DSC_3812_QBIMYLVRNO.jpg)(http://www.mountaindogdiet.com/images/about/history/2011_1.jpg)
2012 Masters Nationals
(http://gallery.rxmuscle.com/newgallery/JEB_9605_SDHDRJMKDH.jpg)
(http://asp.elitefts.net/images/upload/qa/john-meadows-4-days-outMM.jpg)
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: deceiver on June 04, 2014, 06:55:23 AM
The raw genetic potential is not there, I agree. But I think he is one of the hardest training people I have seen. He's taken average genetics to the next level with pure hardcore dieting and extremely smart and intense training. using insane amounts of drugs.

2012 North Americans
(http://gallery.rxmuscle.com/newgallery/DSC_3812_QBIMYLVRNO.jpg)(http://www.mountaindogdiet.com/images/about/history/2011_1.jpg)
2012 Masters Nationals
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQKfY2I3zbHwJEXYsPzAjNdOEf-fGZSkPs41Sm3fXaRt3-KiR0u67sgxg)


Fixed for the truth.
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: ProudVirgin69 on June 04, 2014, 06:57:56 AM
The raw genetic potential is not there, I agree. But I think he is one of the hardest training people I have seen. He's taken average genetics to the next level with pure hardcore dieting and extremely smart and intense training.

Agreed, he's easily the hardest training bodybuilder around. 
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: Alpine on June 04, 2014, 06:58:47 AM
Fixed for the truth.

I dont get your attack on JM?  Because he cited one rat study to support a point? I can tell you from his videos, site and radio show he is NOT a proponent of huge doses and none of his top clients are either.  Everyone at that level runs the same basic amounts anyway. What separates people is genetics, diet and work ethic.  He talks often about the misconception of how more drugs leads to freakier physiques when in reality, there is a point of diminishing returns to pure drug use in terms of dose. You will feel shitty on mega mega doses and this is sub-optimal for peak eating and training patterns. He is a huge health guy too, his diet is extremely clean and he talks about controlling lipids and BP often.

Seriously, who the fuck is deceiver?  
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: Big Chiro Flex on June 04, 2014, 07:59:25 AM
He was the same guy Bostin was using prior to Palumbo?

No that's another guy named John something...can't remember his last name. Known for insane drug doses.
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: Alpine on June 04, 2014, 08:06:10 AM
No that's another guy named John something...can't remember his last name. Known for insane drug doses.

You're thinking of John O'Regan. He IS known for recommending his athletes eat MASSIVE amounts of food (force feedings) and massive dosages with GH and peptide use at the same time (ghrp6 to increase hunger). He's responsible for Dallas McCarver's rapid gains and pro status. Also worked with Caprice Murray, Trigili and Cody Lewis. He worked with Bostin and recommended the same. Now he is one trainer who is well known to recommend a blunt force all out approach.

Quote
Bostin's tell all video about O'regan and McCarver stated:
- Bostin only lasted 3 weeks with him bc he put him on so much gh and AAS that his body felt "toxic", could not eat due to all the orals, could not shave due to all the hgh hands
- Dallas uses 15iu HGH serostim, while Bostin only uses 4iu of Chinese generics
- Dallas' parents pay for all his drugs
- This particular trainer got other youngsters like Nick Trigili and Cody Lewis huge
- Dallas McCarver got lucky to get a pro card, b/c Drew Jemmott and Dan Decker wasn't in the open. And Dallas' trainer paid off a judge.

 
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: Big Chiro Flex on June 04, 2014, 08:07:55 AM
You're thinking of John O'Reagan. He IS known for recommending his athletes eat MASSIVE amounts of food, force feeding and massive dosages with tons of GH and peptide use (ghrp6 to increase hunger). He's responsible for Dallas McCarver's rapid gains and pro status. He worked with Bostin and recommended the same. Now he is one trainer who is well known to recommend a blunt force all out approach.
Yes that's Bostin's old coach. Crazy fuckers...
Thanks "Asspie"  :D
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: no one on June 04, 2014, 08:16:20 AM
I dont get your attack on JM?  Because he cited one rat study to support a point? I can tell you from his videos, site and radio show he is NOT a proponent of huge doses and none of his top clients are either.  Everyone at that level runs the same basic amounts anyway. What separates people is genetics, diet and work ethic.  He talks often about the misconception of how more drugs leads to freakier physiques when in reality, there is a point of diminishing returns to pure drug use in terms of dose. You will feel shitty on mega mega doses and this is sub-optimal for peak eating and training patterns. He is a huge health guy too, his diet is extremely clean and he talks about controlling lipids and BP often.

Seriously, who the fuck is deceiver?  

so let me ask you, and I'm not trying to be inflammatory even though I've ripped on john in the last, I do like the guy cause he loves the iron and helps people as much as he can and everyone who knows him speaks highly of him, but how in gods name can you call him a 'huge health guy' lol

look at him bro. does he fucking look healthy to you? do you think that's some prop and 300mgs of tren ace a week? he's swimming in anabolics. it would make your fucking nose bleed to to read his cycle most likely.


so I get you like him and you want to defend him but lay off the healthy bullshit. just cause a guy eats free range beef or whatever the fuck it is doesnt make him healthy. he's the furthest thing from.
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: SquidVicious on June 04, 2014, 08:18:57 AM
i doubt any pro bodybuilder ever consumes BCAA
THIS!
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: polychronopolous on June 04, 2014, 08:20:37 AM
Hardcore as FUCK! Gotta give him props on that.


(http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/attachments/members-photos/70436d1401759716-5-weeks-out-pic-5-weeks-out-mm.jpg)
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: Alpine on June 04, 2014, 08:20:39 AM
so let me ask you, and I'm not trying to be inflammatory even though I've ripped on john in the last, I do like the guy cause he loves the iron and helps people as much as he can and everyone who knows him speaks highly of him, but how in gods name can you call him a 'huge health guy' lol

look at him bro. does he fucking look healthy to you? do you think that's some prop and 300mgs of tren ace a week? he's swimming in anabolics. it would make your fucking nose bleed to to read his cycle most likely.


so I get you like him and you want to defend him but lay off the healthy bullshit. just cause a guy eats free range beef or whatever the fuck it is doesnt make him healthy. he's the furthest thing from.

I dont pretend to know what his doses are but I would assume they are in the same range of the spectrum that most people at his level use. I do not see him using abnormally high doses compared to other guys of his age/status chasing a card. That is all I meant.  He has a lucrative training career and pay for membership website. He has a life in this industry after hes done chasing a card and I do not think he intends to kill himself doing it. As for "huge health guy" I was more talking about his diet which is very clean/organic and his writing about checking health protocols and staying healthy. I have no comment on his appearance and how that translates to his health. I think that is an unreliable indicator anyway. 
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: no one on June 04, 2014, 08:24:51 AM
I dont pretend to know what his doses are but I would assume they are in the same range of the spectrum that most people at his level use. I do not see him using abnormally high doses compared to other guys of his age/status chasing a card. That is all I meant.  He has a lucrative training career and pay for membership website. He has a life in this industry after hes done chasing a card and I do not think he intends to kill himself doing it. As for "huge health guy" I was more talking about his diet which is very clean and his writing about checking health protocols and staying healthy. I have no comment on his appearance and how that translates to his health.


solid post. well put. cheers.
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: deceiver on June 04, 2014, 08:44:04 AM
I dont pretend to know what his doses are but I would assume they are in the same range of the spectrum that most people at his level use. I do not see him using abnormally high doses compared to other guys of his age/status chasing a card. That is all I meant.  He has a lucrative training career and pay for membership website. He has a life in this industry after hes done chasing a card and I do not think he intends to kill himself doing it. As for "huge health guy" I was more talking about his diet which is very clean/organic and his writing about checking health protocols and staying healthy. I have no comment on his appearance and how that translates to his health. I think that is an unreliable indicator anyway.  

And after a life in the industry he writes articles where he claims shit that can be easily debunked by a 15 year old using Google search.

Well done.

And please don't hate me, it's not my fault that research is what it is. Hate the data.
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: ProudVirgin69 on June 04, 2014, 08:49:03 AM
And after a life in the industry he writes articles where he claims shit that can be easily debunked by a 15 year old using Google search.

Well done.

And please don't hate me, it's not my fault that research is what it is. Hate the data.

To be fair, I doubt that John Meadows wrote that article....I'm sure he has a deal with T-Nation where they can attribute his name to all types of ghost-written articles & quotes
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: Alpine on June 04, 2014, 08:49:35 AM
And after a life in the industry he writes articles where he states thing that can be easily debunked by a 15 year old using Google search.

Well done.

I think you're getting a little excited and mischaracterizing that whole thing. I agree that extraploating that conclusion from a rat model is flawed. But that makes a lot of studies flawed. I think all he was basically getting at is BCAA in the absence of CHO, when in a fasted state, is not going to magically put your body back into an optimal anabolic state. In other words, a fasted state with introduction of just BCAA or PRO is not an optimal muscle building environment. I do not agree that protein synthesis is completely halted though. That is certainly a reach. He's not anti IF but he's not a promoter either as he's always all about increased clean food consumption and increased metabolism.  
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: deceiver on June 04, 2014, 08:50:23 AM
I think you're getting a little excited and mischaracterizing that whole thing.  I think all he was basically getting at is BCAA in the absence of a carb, when in a fasted state, is not going to magically put your body back into an optimal anabolic state. He's not anti IF but he's not a promoter either as he's always all about increased food consumption and increased metabolism.  

I am under impression that we have read completely different article.

Quote
"Proponents of IF like to think of it as the 'science diet' but the complete opposite is true. Intermittent fasting is the fad diet. There's no logic to it, unless your goal is to lose muscle, slow down your metabolism, and have poor workouts.

"My most difficult clients are people that have crashed and burned on intermittent fasting. Here's how it always plays out: I get a guy that was 20-30% body fat. He does IF and he loses some fat and muscle. Then he gets stuck at 15-18% body fat, so he takes his calories down. Now he's stuck at 1800-2000 calories, nothing is happening, and he's miserable. Then he comes to me for help.

Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: ProudVirgin69 on June 04, 2014, 08:52:34 AM
I think you're getting a little excited and mischaracterizing that whole thing. I agree that extraploating that conclusion from a rat model is flawed. But that makes a lot of studies flawed. I think all he was basically getting at is BCAA in the absence of CHO, when in a fasted state, is not going to magically put your body back into an optimal anabolic state. He's not anti IF but he's not a promoter either as he's always all about increased clean food consumption and increased metabolism.  

Actually, that's almost the opposite of what the study indicated.
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: Alpine on June 04, 2014, 08:55:44 AM
Actually, that's almost the opposite of what the study indicated.

I mean I think this is what JM is saying or trying to say, but fell short of. I did not read the study because its garbage. I agree lack of CHO w/ BCAA will not halt PS entirely and pulling this from the rat model seems silly in real world human application. But I also agree that a fasted state with the introduction of just PRO or BCAA is not an optimal anabolic environment too. I am not sold on IF. I have seen the best results when I am taking in clean food often and actually increase my cals some. When I tried IF before, my cals dropped, my workouts suffered and I seemed to lose more muscle while I lost fat.

If T-nation said he authored it, I doubt its ghost written.

I am under impression that we have read completely different article.

I agree that those quotes make him seem a hell of a lot more ANTI-IF than I believed. :D If only Martin Berkhan of Leangains liked WWE and troll posts, then maybe he would have been a member here and could chime in.
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: drmarkp on June 04, 2014, 12:20:13 PM
LOL at you challenging John Meadows. When you have top pros paying you shit loads of money for his bodybuilding and health advice, come talk to us.

When I was competing, I didn't know shit from shinola about training or nutrition; yet I still got as big as my marginal genetics would allow, and was winning or placing high in every show I entered... At the end of the day it's all drugs and genetics...
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: _aj_ on June 04, 2014, 12:26:23 PM
To be fair, I doubt that John Meadows wrote that article....I'm sure he has a deal with T-Nation where they can attribute his name to all types of ghost-written articles & quotes

I used to train with Tony Gentlecore, who is a frequent contributor to T-Nation. He says that the most the editorial staff does is cram in all those ridiculous references to their Biotest supplements at odd places.
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: The Onion on June 04, 2014, 12:47:10 PM
Groundbreaking insights that'll make all the difference in this video.

Cream rice + almond butter + low calorie syrop = TEH GAINZ   ???

Better than porridge?! It's a special pre-workout-meal.  :-\

[ Invalid YouTube link ]
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: Alpine on June 04, 2014, 02:12:21 PM
Related to this topic:

May 23, 2014 John and Shelby Welcome Dr Bill Willis, and expert on protein synthesis.

http://www.rxmuscle.com/2013-01-11-01-57-36/blue-collar-muscle.html

Go to about 28:00 to hear and expert PhD on PS and his opinions of fasted training.

Cliffs: Not fucking good for protein synthesis. 
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: Simple Simon on June 04, 2014, 02:14:53 PM
Related to this topic:

May 23, 2014 John and Shelby Welcome Dr Bill Willis, and expert on protein synthesis.

http://www.rxmuscle.com/2013-01-11-01-57-36/blue-collar-muscle.html

Go to about 28:00 to hear and expert PhD on PS and his opinions of fasted training.

Cliffs: Not fucking good for protein synthesis. 

Yet some people who train fasted look fantastic, hope they dont watch the video.
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: Alpine on June 04, 2014, 02:20:03 PM
Yet some people who train fasted look fantastic, hope they dont watch the video.

Well, I'm not demonizing it. If fat loss is the goal and you are on enough AAS to stave off muscle loss, then IF and/or fasted cardio/training is probably ideal for fat loss.
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: dustin on June 04, 2014, 02:51:39 PM
Just like everyone else he drops tidbits of knowledge and tidbits of shit.

Take it like anything else you read - the author could be wrong. Doesn't mean shit that he looks like a striated dog turd wrapped in earthworms and saran wrap, if he's wrong, he's wrong. And the reason why I say he's wrong is because even if he's right, the adverse effect happens on such a minuscule level that it's asinine to sit around and debate it. People train fasted for a myriad of reasons and lots of people juice as well. I train fasted and I juice, so I don't have to worry if protein synthesis drops by a rate of 0.000000000000000001% per workout. Doesn't fucking matter in the real world.

People keep forgetting to stop looking at petri dishes and rat models. We're people working out in the real world with a trillion other variables. The studies are good for a reference and baseline to start poking around IN THE REAL WORLD. I could be wrong, just like anyone else. But the one thing I'm right about is that it doesn't fucking matter. Maybe if you're a week out from the Mr. O and every hormone in your body needs to be in perfect concert to get hard, full and peeled. But for everyone else on this planet they can go to bed safe and sound and not worry about fasted workouts and protein synthesis.
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: AlphaMaleDawg on June 04, 2014, 02:52:26 PM
Groundbreaking insights that'll make all the difference in this video.

Cream rice + almond butter + low calorie syrop = TEH GAINZ   ???

Better than porridge?! It's a special pre-workout-meal.  :-\

[ Invalid YouTube link ]

Did he ever say once in the video that his recipe was critical for gains? No, he's merely offering a suggestion.
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: Fuzzy Nuts on June 04, 2014, 03:12:26 PM
Meadows is purple. Blood pressure of peace.
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: wes on June 04, 2014, 03:17:45 PM
Meadows is da` man and trains old school hard !!

I train fasted 99% of the time and I highly recommend it to everyone who`s serious.
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: dustin on June 04, 2014, 03:20:47 PM
Meadows is purple. Blood pressure of peace.

He's got that health penis-purple hue, eh? That means like... 10 more years before he croaks.

Nice fella and I don't think he's a dick or anything, but it's just tough to watch guys like this get worshipped like an idol when he looks like his lethargic ass needs to be moved to his death bed sooner than later. I only just recently read up on a few things he's posted over the years and he seems like he knows his stuff, but he's a little too hung up on shit that doesn't matter like grass fed beef or special butters or whatever the fuck he over values and likes to recommend.

How can you not look at a guy like that and not feel like you're staring at death? I'd love to see him a lot more pale and a lot less like he's going to die because he seems like a nice dude.
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: Mawse on June 04, 2014, 03:27:11 PM
seriously, homeboy needs to donate a couple of pints stat .. he must have higher RBC's than the average tour de Francer
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: The Onion on June 04, 2014, 03:27:45 PM
Did he ever say once in the video that his recipe was critical for gains? No, he's merely offering a suggestion.
It's a shitty suggestion that he tries to rationalize and make "special" - and this is actually the problem that I have with Mr Meadows.

He makes everything seem more difficult than it is and comes up with elaborate explanations for the effectiveness of his concepts. He also focuses on minor details of questionable value while not adressing the bigger picture.

Put a stick of butter in a glass of Coca Cola and you'll lower the glycemic index...
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: Alpine on June 04, 2014, 03:28:39 PM
Meadows is da` man and trains old school hard !!

I train fasted 99% of the time and I highly recommend it to everyone who`s serious.

Early AM, fasted?  If I trained AM I would, but I dont.
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: dustin on June 04, 2014, 03:50:55 PM
It's a shitty suggestion that he tries to rationalize and make "special" - and this is actually the problem that I have with Mr Meadows.

He makes everything seem more difficult than it is and comes up with elaborate explanations for the effectiveness of his concepts. He also focuses on minor details of questionable value while not adressing the bigger picture.

Put a stick of butter in a glass of Coca Cola and you'll lower the glycemic index...

lol this is what I think as well. I watch these guys or try reading their posts and I just think "please, shut the fuck up already".

And this is coming from a guy who's life story is all about writing tangents on forums! lol
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: Chubz on June 04, 2014, 04:42:33 PM
So when one takes steroids, they should make no effort to try and do everything else as healthy as possible? It's all about damage control, and Meadows is the master when it comes to safety on steroids. You'd be surprised how much better your bloodwork will look on steroids when you eat and supplement completely healthy, compared to eating junk on steroids. I would know.

AMD gets it, seriously I couldn't read this whole thread it made my head hurt. Yes you can run crazy cycles and be somewhat healthy, I have learned a lot from John and Shelby. I am currently the leanest, biggest I have ever been, 42 years old, my BP is excellent, yes its possible, my cholesterol is good. John is as humble as they come, trains harder than 100% of this board, does the best with what he has(cant change his structure. Lets see how some of you fucking geniuses look..........or better yet look at 42. John pushes nothing on anyone...........100% great guy and will give you the shirt off his back..........lots of jealousy on here

Chubz
Title: Re: John Meadows is a moron
Post by: njflex on June 04, 2014, 08:12:20 PM
AMD gets it, seriously I couldn't read this whole thread it made my head hurt. Yes you can run crazy cycles and be somewhat healthy, I have learned a lot from John and Shelby. I am currently the leanest, biggest I have ever been, 42 years old, my BP is excellent, yes its possible, my cholesterol is good. John is as humble as they come, trains harder than 100% of this board, does the best with what he has(cant change his structure. Lets see how some of you fucking geniuses look..........or better yet look at 42. John pushes nothing on anyone...........100% great guy and will give you the shirt off his back..........lots of jealousy on here

Chubz
8)..
Title: Re: Impeccable Logic by John Meadows re protein synthesis.
Post by: AmonRa on June 04, 2014, 10:01:48 PM
John Meadows is a fucking retard.