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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: OzmO on December 17, 2014, 08:18:19 AM
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http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/17/politics/cuba-alan-gross-deal/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 (http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/17/politics/cuba-alan-gross-deal/index.html?hpt=hp_t1)
Cuba releases American Alan Gross; Obama to overhaul relations
Washington (CNN) -- U.S. contractor Alan Gross, held by the Cuban government since 2009, was freed Wednesday as part of a landmark deal with Cuba that paves the way for a major overhaul in U.S. policy toward the island, senior administration officials tell CNN.
President Barack Obama is expected to announce Gross' release at noon in Washington. At around the same time, Cuban president Raul Castro will speak about it in Havana.
Gross' "humanitarian" release by Cuba was accompanied by a separate spy swap, the officials said. Cuba also freed a U.S. intelligence source who has been jailed in Cuba for more than 20 years, although authorities did not identify that person for security reasons. The U.S. released three Cuban intelligence agents convicted of espionage in 2001.
President Obama is also set to announce a major loosening of travel and economic restrictions and begin discussions on re-opening the U.S. embassy there in what officials called the most sweeping change in U.S. policy toward Cuba since 1961, when the embassy closed and the embargo was imposed.
Officials described the planned actions as the most forceful changes the president could make without legislation passing through Congress.
Cuban agents to be 'treated as heroes' Before release, Gross told wife 'goodbye'
READ: 'He will not endure another year,' says wife of imprisoned American
Photos: Americans detained abroad Photos: Americans detained abroad
For a President who took office promising to engage Cuba, the move could help shape Obama's foreign policy legacy.
"We are charting a new course toward Cuba," a senior administration official said. "The President understood the time was right to attempt a new approach, both because of the beginnings of changes in Cuba and because of the impediment this was causing for our regional policy."
Senators return home without Alan Gross
Gross was arrested after traveling under a program under the U.S. Agency for International Development to deliver satellite phones and other communications equipment to the island's small Jewish population.
Alan Gross's wife pleads for his release
Cuban officials charged he was trying to foment a "Cuban Spring." In 2011, he was convicted and sentenced to 15 years in prison for attempting to set up an Internet network for Cuban dissidents "to promote destabilizing activities and subvert constitutional order."
After losing hope and health in Cuba, Gross finally released
Rubio: Cuba using Alan Gross as a pawn
Senior administration officials and Cuba observers have said recent reforms on the island and changing attitudes in the United States have created an opening for improved relations. U.S. and Cuban officials say Washington and Havana in recent months have increased official technical-level contacts on a variety of issues.
Obama publicly acknowledged for the first time last week that Washington was negotiating with Havana for Gross' release through a "variety of channels."
"We've been in conversations about how we can get Alan Gross home for quite some time," Obama said in an interview with Fusion television network. "We continue to be concerned about him."
Sen. Jeff Flake, R-Ariz., and Rep. Chris Van Hollen, Gross' Maryland congressman, are on the plane with Alan Gross and his wife, Judy, according to government officials.
The group of members left at 4 a.m. ET Wednesday from Washington for Cuba.
More on detained Americans
Gross' lawyer, Scott Gilbert, told CNN last month the years of confinement have taken their toll on his client. Gross has lost more than 100 pounds and is losing his teeth. His hips are so weak that he can barely walk and he has lost vision in one eye. He has also undertaken hunger strikes and threatened to take his own life.
With Gross' health in decline, a bipartisan group of 66 senators wrote Obama a letter in November 2013 urging him to "act expeditiously to take whatever steps are in the national interest to obtain [Gross's] release."
The three Cubans released as a part of the deal belonged the so-called Cuban Five, a quintet of Cuban intelligence officers convicted in 2001 for espionage. They were part of what was called the Wasp Network, which collected intelligence on prominent Cuban-American exile leaders and U.S. military bases.
The leader of the five, Gerardo Hernandez, was linked to the February 1996 downing of the two civilian planes operated by the U.S.-based dissident group Brothers to the Rescue, in which four men died. He is serving a two life sentences. Luis Medina, also known as Ramon Labanino; and Antonio Guerrero have just a few years left on their sentences.
The remaining two -- Rene Gonzalez and Fernando Gonzalez -- were released after serving most of their 15-year sentences and have already returned to Cuba, where they were hailed as heroes.
Wednesday's announcement that the U.S. will move toward restoring diplomatic ties with Cuba will also make it easier for Americans to travel to Cuba and do business with the Cuban people by extending general licenses, officials said. While the more liberal travel restrictions won't allow for tourism, they will permit greater American travel to the island.
Secretary of State John Kerry has also been instructed to review Cuba's place on the State Sponsors of Terrorism list, potentially paving the the way a lift on certain economic and political sanctions.
The revised relationship between the U.S. and Cuba comes ahead of the March 2015 Summit of the Americas, where the island country is set to participate for the first time. In the past, Washington has vetoed Havana's participation on the grounds it is not a democracy. This year, several countries have said they would not participate if Cuba was once again barred.
While only Congress can formally overturn the five decades-long embargo, the White House has some authorities to liberalize trade and travel to the island.
The 1996 Helms-Burton Act, which enshrined the embargo into legislation, allows for the President to extend general or specific licenses through a presidential determination, which could be justified as providing support for the Cuban people or democratic change in Cuba. Both Presidents Clinton and Obama exercised such authority to ease certain provisions of the regulations implementing the Cuba sanctions program.
READ: Could a U.S.-Cuba prisoner swap break the ice?
In an effort to boost the nascent Cuban private sector, the President will also allow expanded commercial sales and exports of goods and services to Cuba, particularly building materials for entrepreneurs and private residences, and allow greater business training, as well as permit greater communications hardware and services to go to the island.
Other announced changes permit U.S. and Cuban banks to build relationships and travelers to use credit and debit cards. U.S. travelers will be allowed to import up to $400 worth of goods from Cuba, including $100 in alcohol and tobacco -- even Cuban cigars. Remittances by Americans to their families back in Cuba will also be increased to approximately $2,000 per quarter.
Officials stressed the moves were not being undertaken to prop up the Castro regime, but rather to encourage further reforms on the island.
"None of this is seen as a reward. All of this is seen as a way of promoting change in Cuba because everything we have done in the past has demonstrably failed," another senior administration official said. "This is not the U.S. government saying Cuba has gotten so much better. It is still an authoritarian state and we still have profound differences with this government."
"But if we hope for change with Cuba, we must try for a different approach. And we believe that considerably more engagement with the Cuban people and the Cuban government is the way to do that," the official said, adding that the United States "will not for a moment lessen our support for improvement in human rights."
To that end, Cuba has agreed to release 53 political prisoners from a list of names provided by the United States. At least one of the prisoners has already been released. Havana has also agreed to permit significant access by its citizens to the Internet and allow the International Committee of the Red Cross and United Nations human rights officials back on the island for the first time in years.
Talks on a deal began between senior White House and Cuban officials last year and happened in fits and starts, officials said. The officials praised the role the Vatican played as guarantor of the process.
Officials would not reveal the name of the U.S. intelligence source, but officials said he was the individual who revealed to the U.S. the Wasp network, which included the Cuban Five.
"He was a very important hero," the U.S. official said.
The moves are far more sweeping than the last action Obama took toward Cuba in January 2011, when he eased restrictions on travel to and from the island. Relations have been largely frozen since Gross' conviction and the White House has made his release a condition of improved ties.
In 2013, Obama drew praise from advocates of changing U.S. policy toward Cuba when he said the U.S. had to be "creative" and "thoughtful" about fostering change on the island.
"The notion that the same policies that we put in place in 1961 would somehow still be as effective as they are today, in the age of the Internet and Google and world travel, doesn't make sense," Obama said at a November 2013 fundraiser in Florida. "We have to continue to update our policies."
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I'd bet they're busting out the cigars, right now.
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In short, Obama couldn't get the hostage free without resorting to his own communist ideologies. Obama couldn't careless about that hostage he just wanted to side with communists. This isn't the first time. I'm not even going to ask the libs on here "why" anymore since they have the same thought process.
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More diversion away from obamas failed presidency
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In short, Obama couldn't get the hostage free without resorting to his own communist ideologies. Obama couldn't careless about that hostage he just wanted to side with communists. This isn't the first time. I'm not even going to ask the libs on here "why" anymore since they have the same thought process.
Pretty cynical viewpoint. But probably true.
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Communist ideology hand book:
Book of Lenin, chapter 5, verse 7
"To love communists one must trade hostages"
Book of Stalin, chapter 65, verse 212
"First person who speaks in a fight is a capitalist"
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Fagbama diverting and startinga new mess
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Wouldn't be surprised if Cuba becomes another problem spot, fairly quickly.
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Wouldn't be surprised if Cuba becomes the next best fertile land for growing BigMacs, venti mochas, and Wal-Mart's.
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by the way, you anti-amnesty people...
THIS is what you asked for.
FIRST, obama delivered amnesty. Nobody said anything. Still, you don't want to impeach him.
THEN, obama colluded with Boehnner to clip balls of new congress' $$$$$ strings. Still no impeach, right guys?
NOW it's going to be a nasty move of letting Cuba come back into the fold. Still no impeach, I'm guessing?
What will it take before you support impeachment? I mean, Obama could literally create an executive order that it's okay to have sex with your household pet on your kitchen table while you watch - and still, no impeach, right?
Seriously, please answer - at WHAT POINT do you stop saying "no impeach" and realize - Obama is only 48% thru his current term, plenty of damage to do still - AT WHAT POINT do you start to support impeachment?
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Correct.
by the way, you anti-amnesty people...
THIS is what you asked for.
FIRST, obama delivered amnesty. Nobody said anything. Still, you don't want to impeach him.
THEN, obama colluded with Boehnner to clip balls of new congress' $$$$$ strings. Still no impeach, right guys?
NOW it's going to be a nasty move of letting Cuba come back into the fold. Still no impeach, I'm guessing?
What will it take before you support impeachment? I mean, Obama could literally create an executive order that it's okay to have sex with your household pet on your kitchen table while you watch - and still, no impeach, right?
Seriously, please answer - at WHAT POINT do you stop saying "no impeach" and realize - Obama is only 48% thru his current term, plenty of damage to do still - AT WHAT POINT do you start to support impeachment?
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Correct.
thank you, good sir. I predict by the end of the weekend, Coach will support impeachment, overriding the Rush marching orders.
At this point, as I predicted, obama is going crazy with exec orders - and it's only going to get worse. Dems won't need white house for another 20 years after he gets done wrecking everything. I mean the last 2 weeks - Amnesty, 1.1 trillion debt, and now Cuba. And he's only 48% thru with this term!
He has 105 more WEEKS to destroy america - unless we impeach. IMO, at some point, those who oppose impeachment are enabling him in a major way. You can only "not call the police on a pedophile hiding under your porch" for so long, before you're an accessory to his crimes. Repubs, please stop letting obama molest this great country.
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We traded convicted criminals for an innocent American?
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Blah blah blah. I'll believe it (opposition) when I see it.
How Republicans could stop Obama's Cuba play
Hill Republicans started making a to-do list immediately.
By LAUREN FRENCH 12/18/14
President Barack Obama’s plan to normalize relations with Cuba has hit a familiar roadblock: Republicans on Capitol Hill.
Just hours after Obama announced that a prisoner swap with the Cuban government for two Americans was the start of a new relationship with the communist country, Republicans began informally kicking around ideas to stop any changes to the U.S.-Cuba relationship.
On the list: deny Obama funds to reopen an embassy in Havana, stall the nomination of a potential ambassador, vote down a bill to open up travel more widely and ignore requests from the White House to lift a decades-old embargo.
When Republicans control the Senate next year, the party would be in a good position to get some of their plans done. But even if they can’t fully stop Obama, who has some authority to act without Congress, the dispute will provide another opportunity for the president’s Hill rivals, including 2016 likely hopefuls Sens. Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio, to continue to question his use of executive action — a theme Republicans had already planned to take on next year around Obama’s moves on immigration and Obamacare.
“I will do all in my power to block the use of funds to open an embassy in Cuba. Normalizing relations with Cuba is bad idea at a bad time,” Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) said on Twitter Wednesday.
In a White House address on Wednesday, Obama said he would direct Secretary of State John Kerry to review’s Cuba’s place on a list of state sponsors of terrorism, reestablish an embassy in Havana and ease travel restrictions. Obama also said the U.S. would increase remittance levels, expand commercial sales and exports.
“We will end an outdated approach that for decades has failed to advance our interests,” Obama said. “Neither the American nor the Cuban people are well-served by a rigid policy that is rooted in events that took place before most of us were born.”
Republicans will control the Senate starting in January, meaning they will have the power to block presidential nominations. Already a number of influential Republicans vocal on foreign affairs, including Graham, Sens. John McCain (R-Ariz.), Rubio (R-Fla.) and Cruz said they staunchly oppose Obama’s plans.
Obama also called on Congress to peruse legislation that would lift the 50-year embargo against goods and travel to the Cuba. That embargo, launched by President John F. Kennedy, is not solidified by decades of congressional legislation - a fact Obama alluded to in his remarks.
“The embargo that has been imposed for decades is now codified in legislation. As these changes unfold, I look forward to engaging Congress in an honest and serious debate about lifting the embargo,” he said.
But Speaker John Boehner said he would not allow any Cuban-U.S. relations to be revisited in the House.
“Relations with the Castro regime should not be revisited, let alone normalized, until the Cuban people enjoy freedom – and not one second sooner. There is no ‘new course’ here, only another in a long line of mindless concessions to a dictatorship that brutalizes its people and schemes with our enemies,” the Ohio Republican said.
Incoming Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) said he would defer the upper chamber’s response to Cuba policy changes to Rubio, who slammed Obama for threatening U.S. national security concerns.
Already some Republicans are casting doubt on if the Obama administration has the legal authority to roll back some travel restrictions and allow increased numbers of Cuban cigars to be brought into the U.S. Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (R-Fla.) said action by Obama “may be in direct violation of Helms-Burton that specifically states that all political prisoners must be released and free and fair elections must be held before establishing a diplomatic relationship.”
The incoming chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee Tennessee Republican Bob Corker gave few details on Wednesday on what his panel would do to halt any of Obama’s proposals.
“The new U.S. policy announced by the administration is no doubt sweeping, and as of now there is no real understanding as to what changes the Cuban government is prepared to make. We will be closely examining the implications of these major policy changes in the next Congress,” he said.
Meanwhile Democrats were mixed on their response to Obama’s plans. Sen. Robert Menendez (D-N.J.), the current chair of the Forign Relations Committee was highly critical of Obama’s proposals. But House Minority Nancy Pelosi hailed Obama’s “new chapter.”
“It is clear that policy of isolating Cuba is serving neither the interests of the American people nor the democratic aspirations of the Cubans,” Pelosi said. “We must acknowledge our policy towards Cuba is a relic of a bygone era that weakens our leadership in the Americas and has not advanced freedom and prosperity in Cuba.”
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/12/congress-cuba-reaction-113654.html#ixzz3MHAucZ1E
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Blah blah blah. I'll believe it (opposition) when I see it.
How Republicans could stop Obama's Cuba play
LOL@ They sure "stopped" obama by giving him 1.1 trillion to spend.
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LOL@ They sure "stopped" obama by giving him 1.1 trillion to spend.
GOP are in bed w that communist terrorist - not against him. Does anyone seriously buy into this nonsense anymore about Boehner and McConnell being against Obama and obamacare? lmfao
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GOP are in bed w that communist terrorist - not against him. Does anyone seriously buy into this nonsense anymore about Boehner and McConnell being against Obama and obamacare? lmfao
I do believe that Cruz is against it. I do believe that Mcconnell KNEW that Cruz leading the charge to stop the spending in Feb 2015 could lead to Cruz taking his seat.
So... mcconnell takes away the big charging issue from Cruz this way. Good for him staying in charge, terrible for national deficit.
mcconnell & boehnner are about keeping mcconnell & boehnner at their leadership positions... not about controlling the spiraling debt.
But all we will hear about is "libs, libs, libs". At least libs are calling themselves dems. These RINOs in the middle... THEY are the ones wearing the repub t-shirts while enabling the Lib agenda.
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We traded convicted criminals for an innocent American?
I don't buy that innocent American shit....we had spies and they had spies.
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I don't buy that innocent American shit....we had spies and they had spies.
Alan Gross was a spy? How did you conclude this?
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Did Gross break Cuban laws?
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Did Gross break Cuban laws?
Arguably.
Charges[edit]
In January 2010, Ricardo Alarcón, the president of the Cuban National Assembly, said that Gross was "contracted to work for American intelligence services", which was denied by both the U.S. government and Gross's attorneys. Gross's trial was set on March 4, 2011.[14][27] More than a year later, Gross was charged in February 2011 not with espionage but with "Acts against the Independence and Territorial Integrity of the State" (Actos Contra la Independencia o la Integridad Territorial del Estado),[28] facing up to 20 years in prison.[27]
Sentencing[edit]
On March 12, 2011, Gross was sentenced to 15 years in prison.[24][29] According to the Cuban News Agency, he had been part of a "subversive project of the U.S. government that aimed to destroy the Revolution through the use of communication systems out of the control of authorities".[29] Gross's wife attended the trial with her attorney. Three U.S. officials also attended as observers.[24]
Gross's case was appealed to the Supreme Court of Cuba, which affirmed the sentence in August 2011.[30]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Gross#Arrest_and_trial
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Looks like he was charged and convicted.
We traded convicted criminals for an innocent American?
So as far as they are concerned he is not innocent.
It even went to their supreme court.
Isn't there a travel ban for Americans from our gov?
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Looks like he was charged and convicted.
So as far as they are concerned he is not innocent.
It even went to their supreme court.
Isn't there a travel ban for Americans from our gov?
I don't place any stock whatsoever in what a state sponsor of terrorism does. This guy wasn't a spy. We traded him for people convicted of spying in our system. It's sort of like the deal we made with the Taliban to get Bergdhal. Give away the store for nothing.
Here is what he was charged with:
The equipment he brought to Cuba on his fourth trip, most but not all of which is legal in Cuba, included 12 iPods, 11 BlackBerry Curve smartphones, three MacBooks, six 500-gigabyte external drives, three Internet satellite phones known as BGANs, three routers, three controllers, 18 wireless access points, 13 memory sticks, three VoIP phones, and networking switches. In his report on this trip, marked as final, he summarized: “Wireless networks established in three communities; about 325 users”. However, he went to Cuba for a fifth time in late November 2009 and was arrested 11 days later.[20] When he was arrested, he was carrying a high-tech chip,[21] intended to keep satellite phone transmissions from being located within 250 miles (400 kilometres). The chip is not available on the open market. It is provided most frequently to the CIA and the Defense Department, but can also be obtained by the State Department, which oversees USAID. Asked how Gross obtained the card, a USAID spokesman said that the agency played no role in helping Gross acquire equipment.[20]
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Looks like he was charged and convicted.
So as far as they are concerned he is not innocent.
It even went to their supreme court.
Isn't there a travel ban for Americans from our gov?
Yes and no. The ban technically is not on travel, but on spending money in Cuba. Which pretty much equates into a travel ban as you are going to have to spend money at some point for food, hotel, etc.. But you can get around it. Go to Mexico and make the jump with a temporary "tourist card" that you can buy at (most) airports that are outside the US. Even those are really not necessary as very very seldom does Cuba actually stamp passports. But they are cheap and better safe than sorry later on.
You can even fly in from Canada as well. But unless you live in the North a short distance (and cheap flight from Canada) it is easier and cheaper to do so from Mexico. That is how I went years ago. Also going through Mexico is best if you are planning on bringing back any typical tourist trinkets as the ones from Mexico and Cuba are very similar. By "similar" what I mean is "cheap and crappy".
You have be extremely careful about leaving a paper trail that could be traced back. When I went everyone had to exchange money in Mexico before leaving and then had to exchange all the money back into USD before leaving Cuba. Credit cards are not allowed at all by any means. Cell phone use (including text and internet surfing) are forbidden and you are given a cheap one with prepaid card to use over there that is programmed to NOT dial into the US. If you wanted to call home, you had to call another country and have them route the call onwards. Texting was not an option. (At least not in 2007 when I was there)
There are some travel group that run services like this and they are very very good and very very strict. They review all your purchases for you, they program your (personal) cell phone so that it will not register a location, they basically do everything for you so that you won't have any hassles on down the road.
Having been once, I am glad I did get to go but have absolutely NO desire to ever go back again. At times it is like you have stepped into a Twilight Zone time warp.
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I don't place any stock whatsoever in what a state sponsor of terrorism does. This guy wasn't a spy. We traded him for people convicted of spying in our system. It's sort of like the deal we made with the Taliban to get Bergdhal. Give away the store for nothing.
Here is what he was charged with:
The equipment he brought to Cuba on his fourth trip, most but not all of which is legal in Cuba, included 12 iPods, 11 BlackBerry Curve smartphones, three MacBooks, six 500-gigabyte external drives, three Internet satellite phones known as BGANs, three routers, three controllers, 18 wireless access points, 13 memory sticks, three VoIP phones, and networking switches. In his report on this trip, marked as final, he summarized: “Wireless networks established in three communities; about 325 users”. However, he went to Cuba for a fifth time in late November 2009 and was arrested 11 days later.[20] When he was arrested, he was carrying a high-tech chip,[21] intended to keep satellite phone transmissions from being located within 250 miles (400 kilometres). The chip is not available on the open market. It is provided most frequently to the CIA and the Defense Department, but can also be obtained by the State Department, which oversees USAID. Asked how Gross obtained the card, a USAID spokesman said that the agency played no role in helping Gross acquire equipment.[20]
If this is true, the guy was off his rocker. It would be insane to possess that chip, alone. Damn. That would be looking for trouble, alright.
I wonder if he's denied it or will deny it when he's back here. (haven't been up on this situation)
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it looks like he did have the goods.
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Sort of looks like USAID confirms it in that c/p, too. (in a roundabout way)
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I don't place any stock whatsoever in what a state sponsor of terrorism does. This guy wasn't a spy. We traded him for people convicted of spying in our system. It's sort of like the deal we made with the Taliban to get Bergdhal. Give away the store for nothing.
Here is what he was charged with:
The equipment he brought to Cuba on his fourth trip, most but not all of which is legal in Cuba, included 12 iPods, 11 BlackBerry Curve smartphones, three MacBooks, six 500-gigabyte external drives, three Internet satellite phones known as BGANs, three routers, three controllers, 18 wireless access points, 13 memory sticks, three VoIP phones, and networking switches. In his report on this trip, marked as final, he summarized: “Wireless networks established in three communities; about 325 users”. However, he went to Cuba for a fifth time in late November 2009 and was arrested 11 days later.[20] When he was arrested, he was carrying a high-tech chip,[21] intended to keep satellite phone transmissions from being located within 250 miles (400 kilometres). The chip is not available on the open market. It is provided most frequently to the CIA and the Defense Department, but can also be obtained by the State Department, which oversees USAID. Asked how Gross obtained the card, a USAID spokesman said that the agency played no role in helping Gross acquire equipment.[20]
I don't know if he was a spy or not. Neither do you. He was tried and convicted in their courts. Unless you are privy to there police reports, judicial process, etc. You are as usual just stating your opinion when saying he was innocent which is likely related to your disdain for OB.
We are talking about a communist country that doesn't have our great system of due process. I don't know if he was framed or the charges are just plain bull shirt or not. But I wouldn't just assume or say he was I innocent of violAting that country's laws.
As for the trade. It seems lop sided.
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Yes and no. The ban technically is not on travel, but on spending money in Cuba. Which pretty much equates into a travel ban as you are going to have to spend money at some point for food, hotel, etc.. But you can get around it. Go to Mexico and make the jump with a temporary "tourist card" that you can buy at (most) airports that are outside the US. Even those are really not necessary as very very seldom does Cuba actually stamp passports. But they are cheap and better safe than sorry later on.
You can even fly in from Canada as well. But unless you live in the North a short distance (and cheap flight from Canada) it is easier and cheaper to do so from Mexico. That is how I went years ago. Also going through Mexico is best if you are planning on bringing back any typical tourist trinkets as the ones from Mexico and Cuba are very similar. By "similar" what I mean is "cheap and crappy".
You have be extremely careful about leaving a paper trail that could be traced back. When I went everyone had to exchange money in Mexico before leaving and then had to exchange all the money back into USD before leaving Cuba. Credit cards are not allowed at all by any means. Cell phone use (including text and internet surfing) are forbidden and you are given a cheap one with prepaid card to use over there that is programmed to NOT dial into the US. If you wanted to call home, you had to call another country and have them route the call onwards. Texting was not an option. (At least not in 2007 when I was there)
There are some travel group that run services like this and they are very very good and very very strict. They review all your purchases for you, they program your (personal) cell phone so that it will not register a location, they basically do everything for you so that you won't have any hassles on down the road.
Having been once, I am glad I did get to go but have absolutely NO desire to ever go back again. At times it is like you have stepped into a Twilight Zone time warp.
My cousins, who are Canadian, go there at least once a yeAr. They rave about it for its cheap prices and lack of western commercial Influence. I would love to go some day. Thanks for the info. By the time I get around to going maybe it will be easier.
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I don't know if he was a spy or not. Neither do you. He was tried and convicted in their courts. Unless you are privy to there police reports, judicial process, etc. You are as usual just stating your opinion when saying he was innocent which is likely related to your disdain for OB.
We are talking about a communist country that doesn't have our great system of due process. I don't know if he was framed or the charges are just plain bull shirt or not. But I wouldn't just assume or say he was I innocent of violAting that country's laws.
As for the trade. It seems lop sided.
He was not tried and convicted as a spy in their courts.
Pretty much everything everyone says on this board (me included) is opinion. That’s essentially what the board is: a place to express opinions. For whatever reason, you are trying to cast my opinion as facts. I understand completely that my opinions are just opinions, so not sure why you are stating the obvious.
I don’t know for certain if Alan Gross was a spy. Just like I don’t know for certain if he is an orthodox Jewish transsexual who eats pork. But I can use common sense. Even Cuba didn’t charge and/or convict him of espionage.
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He was not tried and convicted as a spy in their courts.
Pretty much everything everyone says on this board (me included) is opinion. That’s essentially what the board is: a place to express opinions. For whatever reason, you are trying to cast my opinion as facts. I understand completely that my opinions are just opinions, so not sure why you are stating the obvious.
I don’t know for certain if Alan Gross was a spy. Just like I don’t know for certain if he is an orthodox Jewish transsexual who eats pork. But I can use common sense. Even Cuba didn’t charge and/or convict him of espionage.
No actually not. Lots of facts are presented on this board. Such as how he was convicted of a crime in Cuba an is not innocent.
Some opinion on this board is based on fact. Some is not. Such as birthers. In this particular case your opinion that he is innocent isn't based on any facts so far.
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No actually not. Lots of facts are presented on this board. Such as how he was convicted of a crime in Cuba an is not innocent.
Some opinion on this board is based on fact. Some is not. Such as birthers. In this particular case your opinion that he is innocent isn't based on any facts so far.
It is a fact that he was convicted of a "crime" in Cuba. It is a not a fact he is actually guilty of anything. So, my opinion is that he's innocent. And it's also a fact that he was neither charged with nor convicted of spying.
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My cousins, who are Canadian, go there at least once a yeAr. They rave about it for its cheap prices and lack of western commercial Influence. I would love to go some day. Thanks for the info. By the time I get around to going maybe it will be easier.
The prices are dirt cheap. Great food, salsa, music, LOL. Clubs are jumping at times, but you have to watch out being made for a tourist as they will pick pocket you in a heart beat or spike your drink and roll you for your wallet, watch, and anything else they can get later on.
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He's either very idealistic or he was stashing lots of cash (besides whatever money his company was making) or both. But he understood there could be very bad consequences for the risk, it looks like, by things he apparently said.
It seems by the appearance of what he did, he wanted to make an undetectable line of communication from the island, and that would be considered high risk, for sure.
The only claim I've seen from him is that he was "duped" and "fooled", but without explanation (that I've read). So maybe some information exists that explains everything in his favor. Would like to know if that's true.
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It is a fact that he was convicted of a "crime" in Cuba. It is a not a fact he is actually guilty of anything. So, my opinion is that he's innocent. And it's also a fact that he was neither charged with nor convicted of spying.
according to the courts of Cuba he is. Hence he's not innocent. But just like with OJ there are plenty of people who have the opinion he innocent too and believe it's a fact that he not guilty of anything.
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Looks like the "duped" and "fooled" claim refers to the company he was fulfilling contracts for, as well as our government. He says they didn't make him aware of how risky his actions were.
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This guy probably was a spy. Who gives a fuck. He's an American trying to serve his country and we should help get him out. Now, if he was just some reporter who voluntarily went for a story and got locked up, I wouldn't have much sympathy.
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according to the courts of Cuba he is. Hence he's not innocent. But just like with OJ there are plenty of people who have the opinion he innocent too and believe it's a fact that he not guilty of anything.
Who cares what the courts of Cuba says or does? I don't place any stock in what some kangaroo court does in a dictatorship. And just because someone is convicted doesn't mean they are actually guilty. Just like someone who is acquitted isn't necessarily innocent.
It's not a fact that OJ isn't guilty of anything. It's a fact that he was acquitted during his criminal trial. But anyone who followed that trial and has a half a brain knows he was guilty as sin. Plus he was found liable in civil trial on the same subject matter.
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Who cares what the courts of Cuba says or does? I don't place any stock in what some kangaroo court does in a dictatorship. And just because someone is convicted doesn't mean they are actually guilty. Just like someone who is acquitted isn't necessarily innocent.
It's not a fact that OJ isn't guilty of anything. It's a fact that he was acquitted during his criminal trial. But anyone who followed that trial and has a half a brain knows he was guilty as sin. Plus he was found liable in civil trial on the same subject matter.
So?
He was convicted of breaking laws in Cuba. Unless you know in detail the Cuban court system and the facts of the charges and have studied a full review of the trial in Cuba, your statement that he was innocent and the statement about the Cuban courts is once again based solely on opinion just like some are saying OJ is innocent as well as Cosby.
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This guy probably was a spy. Who gives a fuck. He's an American trying to serve his country and we should help get him out. Now, if he was just some reporter who voluntarily went for a story and got locked up, I wouldn't have much sympathy.
I would bet, and of course this is speculation, that he was approached by the CIA prior to one of his trips and asked to install that chip into his equipment.
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So?
He was convicted of breaking laws in Cuba. Unless you know in detail the Cuban court system and the facts of the charges and have studied a full review of the trial in Cuba, your statement that he was innocent and the statement about the Cuban courts is once again based solely on opinion just like some are saying OJ is innocent as well as Cosby.
So what. It's my opinion. Never said anything otherwise. Just like you saying he is actually guilty is just opinion. Yes he was convicted by a some kangaroo court in a community country. Who cares?
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So what. It's my opinion. Never said anything otherwise. Just like you saying he is actually guilty is just opinion. Yes he was convicted by a some kangaroo court in a community country. Who cares?
Far be it for you to let facts get in the way. ;)
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Far be it for you to let facts get in the way. ;)
I never let the facts confuse me. :)
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U.S. pays Alan Gross $3.2 million in settlement
By Elise Labott, CNN Global Affairs Correspondent
Tue December 23, 2014
Washington (CNN) -- The U.S. Agency for International Development has paid Alan Gross $3.2 million, settling a claim over the former contractor freed last week by Cuba after five years in prison, a spokesman for the federal agency tells CNN.
USAID, the agency which oversees foreign aid, said it finalized the settlement with Development Alternatives, Inc (DAI).
Gross was employed by the Maryland-based company when he was arrested in 2009 trying to provide cell phones and other communications equiment to Cuba's Jewish community under a USAID program. The U.S. maintained Gross was trying to help Cubans access the Internet as part of democracy-building program in a country where information is tightly controlled.
Gross was serving a 15-year sentence for trying to subvert the Cuban government, but was released last week as part of a landmark deal that paved the way for a restoration of diplomatic ties between the U.S. and Cuba after more than 50 years.
In a statement released Tuesday, USAID said the settlement -- agreed to in principle in November -- calls for payment by USAID for unanticipated claims under a cost-reimbursement contract, including claims related to Gross. DAI had been seeking $7 million in costs before the Civilian Board of Contract Appeals.
"The settlement avoids the cost, delay and risks of further proceedings, and does not constitute an admission of liability by either party," the statement said. The USAID spokesman said as part of the settlement agreement, the agency agreed to pay Gross the $3.2 million directly.
Gross and his wife, Judy, filed a $60 million lawsuit in November 2012 for gross negligence against the U.S. government and DAI. They settled with DAI for undisclosed terms in May 2013, and a U.S. district court threw out his claim against the U.S. government. That ruling was upheld on appeal last month.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/23/politics/alan-gross-settlement/index.html?hpt=po_c2