Cuba releases American Alan Gross; Obama to overhaul relations

[Jack T. Cross]

it looks like he did have the goods.

[Jack T. Cross]

Sort of looks like USAID confirms it in that c/p, too. (in a roundabout way)

[OzmO]

I don't place any stock whatsoever in what a state sponsor of terrorism does.  This guy wasn't a spy.  We traded him for people convicted of spying in our system.  It's sort of like the deal we made with the Taliban to get Bergdhal.  Give away the store for nothing. 

Here is what he was charged with:

The equipment he brought to Cuba on his fourth trip, most but not all of which is legal in Cuba, included 12 iPods, 11 BlackBerry Curve smartphones, three MacBooks, six 500-gigabyte external drives, three Internet satellite phones known as BGANs, three routers, three controllers, 18 wireless access points, 13 memory sticks, three VoIP phones, and networking switches. In his report on this trip, marked as final, he summarized: “Wireless networks established in three communities; about 325 users”. However, he went to Cuba for a fifth time in late November 2009 and was arrested 11 days later.[20] When he was arrested, he was carrying a high-tech chip,[21] intended to keep satellite phone transmissions from being located within 250 miles (400 kilometres). The chip is not available on the open market. It is provided most frequently to the CIA and the Defense Department, but can also be obtained by the State Department, which oversees USAID. Asked how Gross obtained the card, a USAID spokesman said that the agency played no role in helping Gross acquire equipment.[20]

I don't know  if he was a spy or not.   Neither do you.  He was tried and convicted in their courts.  Unless you are privy to there police reports, judicial process, etc.  You are as usual just stating your opinion when saying he was innocent which is likely related to your disdain for OB. 

We are talking about a communist country that doesn't have our great system of due process.  I don't know if he was framed or the charges are just plain bull shirt or not.  But I wouldn't just assume or say he was I innocent of violAting that country's laws. 

As for the trade.  It seems lop sided.

[OzmO]

Yes and no.  The ban technically is not on travel, but on spending money in Cuba.  Which pretty much equates into a travel ban as you are going to have to spend money at some point for food, hotel, etc..   But you can get around it.  Go to Mexico and make the jump with a temporary "tourist card" that you can buy at (most) airports that are outside the US.  Even those are really not necessary as very very seldom does Cuba actually stamp passports.  But they are cheap and better safe than sorry later on.

You can even fly in from Canada as well.  But unless you live in the North a short distance (and cheap flight from Canada) it is easier and cheaper to do so from Mexico.  That is how I went years ago.  Also going through Mexico is best if you are planning on bringing back any typical tourist trinkets as the ones from Mexico and Cuba are very similar. By "similar" what I mean is "cheap and crappy".

You have be extremely careful about leaving a paper trail that could be traced back.  When I went everyone had to exchange money in Mexico before leaving and then had to exchange all the money back into USD before leaving Cuba.  Credit cards are not allowed at all by any means.  Cell phone use (including text and internet surfing) are forbidden and you are given a cheap one with prepaid card to use over there that is programmed to NOT dial into the US.  If you wanted to call home, you had to call another country and have them route the call onwards.  Texting was not an option.  (At least not in 2007 when I was there)

There are some travel group that run services like this and they are very very good and very very strict.  They review all your purchases for you, they program your (personal) cell phone so that it will not register a location, they basically do everything for you so that you won't have any hassles on down the road. 

Having been once, I am glad I did get to go but have absolutely NO desire to ever go back again.  At times it is like you have stepped into a Twilight Zone time warp.

My cousins, who are Canadian, go there at least once a yeAr.  They rave about it for its cheap prices and lack of western commercial Influence.  I would love to go some day.  Thanks for the info.  By the time I get around to going maybe it will be easier. 

[Dos Equis]

I don't know  if he was a spy or not.   Neither do you.  He was tried and convicted in their courts.  Unless you are privy to there police reports, judicial process, etc.  You are as usual just stating your opinion when saying he was innocent which is likely related to your disdain for OB. 

We are talking about a communist country that doesn't have our great system of due process.  I don't know if he was framed or the charges are just plain bull shirt or not.  But I wouldn't just assume or say he was I innocent of violAting that country's laws. 

As for the trade.  It seems lop sided.

He was not tried and convicted as a spy in their courts. 

Pretty much everything everyone says on this board (me included) is opinion.  That’s essentially what the board is:  a place to express opinions.  For whatever reason, you are trying to cast my opinion as facts.  I understand completely that my opinions are just opinions, so not sure why you are stating the obvious. 

I don’t know for certain if Alan Gross was a spy.  Just like I don’t know for certain if he is an orthodox Jewish transsexual who eats pork.  But I can use common sense.  Even Cuba didn’t charge and/or convict him of espionage. 

[OzmO]

He was not tried and convicted as a spy in their courts.  

Pretty much everything everyone says on this board (me included) is opinion.  That’s essentially what the board is:  a place to express opinions.  For whatever reason, you are trying to cast my opinion as facts.  I understand completely that my opinions are just opinions, so not sure why you are stating the obvious.  

I don’t know for certain if Alan Gross was a spy.  Just like I don’t know for certain if he is an orthodox Jewish transsexual who eats pork.  But I can use common sense.  Even Cuba didn’t charge and/or convict him of espionage.  

No actually not.   Lots of facts are presented on this board.  Such as how he was convicted of a crime in Cuba an is not innocent.  

Some opinion on this board is based on fact.  Some is not. Such as birthers.    In this particular case your opinion that he is innocent isn't based on any facts so far. 

[Dos Equis]

No actually not.   Lots of facts are presented on this board.  Such as how he was convicted of a crime in Cuba an is not innocent.  

Some opinion on this board is based on fact.  Some is not. Such as birthers.    In this particular case your opinion that he is innocent isn't based on any facts so far. 

It is a fact that he was convicted of a "crime" in Cuba.  It is a not a fact he is actually guilty of anything.  So, my opinion is that he's innocent.  And it's also a fact that he was neither charged with nor convicted of spying. 

[LurkerNoMore]

My cousins, who are Canadian, go there at least once a yeAr.  They rave about it for its cheap prices and lack of western commercial Influence.  I would love to go some day.  Thanks for the info.  By the time I get around to going maybe it will be easier. 

The prices are dirt cheap.  Great food, salsa, music, LOL.  Clubs are jumping at times, but you have to watch out being made for a tourist as they will pick pocket you in a heart beat or spike your drink and roll you for your wallet, watch, and anything else they can get later on.

[Jack T. Cross]

He's either very idealistic or he was stashing lots of cash (besides whatever money his company was making) or both. But he understood there could be very bad consequences for the risk, it looks like, by things he apparently said.

It seems by the appearance of what he did, he wanted to make an undetectable line of communication from the island, and that would be considered high risk, for sure.

The only claim I've seen from him is that he was "duped" and "fooled", but without explanation (that I've read). So maybe some information exists that explains everything in his favor. Would like to know if that's true.

[OzmO]

It is a fact that he was convicted of a "crime" in Cuba.  It is a not a fact he is actually guilty of anything.  So, my opinion is that he's innocent.  And it's also a fact that he was neither charged with nor convicted of spying. 

according to the courts of Cuba he is.  Hence he's not innocent.  But just like with OJ there are plenty of people who have the opinion he innocent too and believe it's a fact that he not guilty of anything.

[Jack T. Cross]

Looks like the "duped" and "fooled" claim refers to the company he was fulfilling contracts for, as well as our government. He says they didn't make him aware of how risky his actions were.

[Skip8282]

This guy probably was a spy.  Who gives a fuck.  He's an American trying to serve his country and we should help get him out.  Now, if he was just some reporter who voluntarily went for a story and got locked up, I wouldn't have much sympathy.

[Dos Equis]

according to the courts of Cuba he is.  Hence he's not innocent.  But just like with OJ there are plenty of people who have the opinion he innocent too and believe it's a fact that he not guilty of anything.

Who cares what the courts of Cuba says or does?  I don't place any stock in what some kangaroo court does in a dictatorship.  And just because someone is convicted doesn't mean they are actually guilty.  Just like someone who is acquitted isn't necessarily innocent. 

It's not a fact that OJ isn't guilty of anything.  It's a fact that he was acquitted during his criminal trial.  But anyone who followed that trial and has a half a brain knows he was guilty as sin.  Plus he was found liable in civil trial on the same subject matter. 

[OzmO]

Who cares what the courts of Cuba says or does?  I don't place any stock in what some kangaroo court does in a dictatorship.  And just because someone is convicted doesn't mean they are actually guilty.  Just like someone who is acquitted isn't necessarily innocent. 

It's not a fact that OJ isn't guilty of anything.  It's a fact that he was acquitted during his criminal trial.  But anyone who followed that trial and has a half a brain knows he was guilty as sin.  Plus he was found liable in civil trial on the same subject matter. 

So?

He was convicted of breaking laws in Cuba.  Unless you know in detail the Cuban court system and the facts of the charges and have studied a full review of the trial in Cuba, your statement that he was innocent and the statement about the Cuban courts is once again based solely on opinion just like some are saying OJ is innocent as well as Cosby.

[OzmO]

This guy probably was a spy.  Who gives a fuck.  He's an American trying to serve his country and we should help get him out.  Now, if he was just some reporter who voluntarily went for a story and got locked up, I wouldn't have much sympathy.

I would bet, and of course this is speculation, that he was approached by the CIA prior to one of his trips and asked to install that chip into his equipment.

[Dos Equis]

So?

He was convicted of breaking laws in Cuba.  Unless you know in detail the Cuban court system and the facts of the charges and have studied a full review of the trial in Cuba, your statement that he was innocent and the statement about the Cuban courts is once again based solely on opinion just like some are saying OJ is innocent as well as Cosby.

So what.  It's my opinion.  Never said anything otherwise.  Just like you saying he is actually guilty is just opinion.  Yes he was convicted by a some kangaroo court in a community country.  Who cares? 

[OzmO]

So what.  It's my opinion.  Never said anything otherwise.  Just like you saying he is actually guilty is just opinion.  Yes he was convicted by a some kangaroo court in a community country.  Who cares? 

Far be it for you to let facts get in the way. 

[Dos Equis]

Far be it for you to let facts get in the way. 

I never let the facts confuse me.   

[Dos Equis]

U.S. pays Alan Gross $3.2 million in settlement
By Elise Labott, CNN Global Affairs Correspondent
Tue December 23, 2014

Washington (CNN) -- The U.S. Agency for International Development has paid Alan Gross $3.2 million, settling a claim over the former contractor freed last week by Cuba after five years in prison, a spokesman for the federal agency tells CNN.

USAID, the agency which oversees foreign aid, said it finalized the settlement with Development Alternatives, Inc (DAI).

Gross was employed by the Maryland-based company when he was arrested in 2009 trying to provide cell phones and other communications equiment to Cuba's Jewish community under a USAID program. The U.S. maintained Gross was trying to help Cubans access the Internet as part of democracy-building program in a country where information is tightly controlled.

Gross was serving a 15-year sentence for trying to subvert the Cuban government, but was released last week as part of a landmark deal that paved the way for a restoration of diplomatic ties between the U.S. and Cuba after more than 50 years.

In a statement released Tuesday, USAID said the settlement -- agreed to in principle in November -- calls for payment by USAID for unanticipated claims under a cost-reimbursement contract, including claims related to Gross. DAI had been seeking $7 million in costs before the Civilian Board of Contract Appeals.
"The settlement avoids the cost, delay and risks of further proceedings, and does not constitute an admission of liability by either party," the statement said. The USAID spokesman said as part of the settlement agreement, the agency agreed to pay Gross the $3.2 million directly.

Gross and his wife, Judy, filed a $60 million lawsuit in November 2012 for gross negligence against the U.S. government and DAI. They settled with DAI for undisclosed terms in May 2013, and a U.S. district court threw out his claim against the U.S. government. That ruling was upheld on appeal last month.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/23/politics/alan-gross-settlement/index.html?hpt=po_c2