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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: G_Thang on January 24, 2015, 03:17:59 AM

Title: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: G_Thang on January 24, 2015, 03:17:59 AM


justified or not?

Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: BB on January 24, 2015, 04:06:54 AM
Justified, but I would've liked a better view into the car. The shot passenger had shot it out with cops before and got out after a long prison stay just a few years back, and had been caught slinging dope in the area before. A lot of folks are crying that the officer had control of the gun, but you don't know if the guy had a second secreted in the car, etc...., and he was acting belligerent.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: devilsmile on January 24, 2015, 04:18:09 AM
I always smell bacon when cops are near, but unfortuntely america is a cop nation. If they yell at you with their red neck voice you just need to bare it, because american cops are the most paranoid gun wielders on earth- and just do what the cops tell you. Or get shot. So I guess it's justified.

I can't always blame the cops, american people are plain nuts for the most part.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: Erik C on January 24, 2015, 04:18:48 AM
The cops performing another public service, by killing another worthless dirtball criminal. Good Riddance!
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: Grape Ape on January 24, 2015, 05:35:31 AM
I always smell bacon when cops are near, but unfortuntely america is a cop nation. If they yell at you with their red neck voice you just need to bare it, because american cops are the most paranoid gun wielders on earth- and just do what the cops tell you. Or get shot. So I guess it's justified.

I can't always blame the cops, american people are plain nuts for the most part.

How long have you lived in America?
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: devilsmile on January 24, 2015, 05:39:01 AM
How long have you lived in America?

Visited america once when I was a toddler, my view on america is from social media, news, documents and what not  :D
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: Grape Ape on January 24, 2015, 05:44:33 AM
Visited america once when I was a toddler, my view on america is from social media, news, documents and what not  :D


Very wise to make such definitive statements about a country this size from that information.

I commute from the suburbs to the city 4x a week.  I've probably seen a police officer once in the last 2 months, and it was because he was directing traffic around a construction site.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: devilsmile on January 24, 2015, 05:49:20 AM
Very wise to make such definitive statements about a country this size from that information.

I commute from the suburbs to the city 4x a week.  I've probably seen a police officer once in the last 2 months, and it was because he was directing traffic around a construction site.

I know I shouldn't make such definitive statements about a huge nation like that because in actuality I don't know.

But I remember when I once visited there, everyone had this weird way of talking, like they were 50% movie and 50% reality. And people I once went school with who were exchange students, especially the gals told me that the american guys have no own opinions on anything and didn't have any depth, but the parties were phenomenal.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: Grape Ape on January 24, 2015, 05:52:43 AM
I know I shouldn't make such definitive statements about a huge nation like that because in actuality I don't know.

But I remember when I once visited there, everyone had this weird way of talking, like they were 50% movie and 50% reality. And people I once went school with who were exchange students, especially the gals told me that the american guys have no own opinions on anything and didn't have any depth, but the parties were phenomenal.

Yeah, I don't know where you visited, but certain areas have some goofy accents.  But that works both ways for anyone here traveling abroad too.

College is not really a great litmus test either.  Most people are dumb asses at that age.

Either way, I was just chiding you a bit because I know you are a thinker.  I get how you could get the impression.  The information we have access to right now is completely insane to where it was only a short time ago, and it's going to take a long time for people's thinking to adjust.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: devilsmile on January 24, 2015, 05:59:13 AM
Yeah, I don't know where you visited, but certain areas have some goofy accents.  But that works both ways for anyone here traveling abroad too.

College is not really a great litmus test either.  Most people are dumb asses at that age.

Either way, I was just chiding you a bit because I know you are a thinker.  I get how you could get the impression.  The information we have access to right now is completely insane to where it was only a short time ago, and it's going to take a long time for people's thinking to adjust.

yeah I hear you and you're completely right, I really should take a trip there to find out for my self. And I could be surprised. I guess it's just trendy to hate everything now days... even I have fallen to that trap... I'm so weak  >:(
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: youandme on January 24, 2015, 06:01:10 AM
Luckily the officer shot first in this case Officer should be awarded for taking another POS off the streets.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: Grape Ape on January 24, 2015, 06:01:23 AM
yeah I hear you and you're completely right, I really should take a trip there to find out for my self. And I could be surprised. I guess it's just trendy to hate everything now days... even I have fallen to that trap... I'm so weak  >:(

Nah, not weak.  This country is enormous, and you're going to get vastly different impressions depending on where you go.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: King Shizzo on January 24, 2015, 06:02:43 AM
Grape Ape and Devilsmile setting up a docking session in this thread.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: _aj_ on January 24, 2015, 06:47:42 AM
Nah, not weak.  This country is enormous, and you're going to get vastly different impressions depending on where you go.

This.

You'll notice that most of these are happening in urban areas that are high on crime. In my small town, I know all the cops and all of the fire dept. They delight in pulling me over to give me "warnings".
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: oldtimer1 on January 24, 2015, 06:48:57 AM
He should have been killed the first time he tried to shoot a cop. Why are we so concerned with a convict carrying a gun?  

Black lives matter? You have 2589 people shot in Chicago alone in 2014. Most of the victims were black. Most of the known shooters are black. Where is Sharpton? Where are the protests? Where are the majority liberal news providers in print, internet and television? What do liberals care about? They care about guys that break the law, have criminal records, resist arrest and assault cops.

How's this for a statistic. In 2012 123 blacks were killed by cops and 326 whites. These stats came from the CDC.

Eric Holder said in effect he would do a through investigation on the Ferguson shooting. He insinuated he would bring Federal civil rights charges and have that cop arrested. On 1-21-2015 his Justice Department announced no charges would be bought against the cop. They had nothing to charge him with. I bet you never heard that in the left leaning news providers like ABC, NBC, and CBS.  Did Eric Holder hold a press conference saying the cop was cleared?
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: _aj_ on January 24, 2015, 06:52:45 AM
Eric Holder said in effect he would do a through investigation on the Ferguson shooting. He insinuated he would bring Federal civil rights charges and have that cop arrested. On 1-21-2015 his Justice Department announced no charges would be bought against the cop. They had nothing to charge him with. I bet you never heard that in the left leaning news providers like ABC, NBC, and CBS.  Did Eric Holder hold a press conference saying the cop was cleared?

Holder knew he had nothing on Wilson, but starting the investigation allows him to bring civil rights violations against the entire PD in Ferguson, which is the end goal and is still on-going.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: devilsmile on January 24, 2015, 06:53:53 AM
Grape Ape and Devilsmile setting up a docking session in this thread.

you handle the distribution.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: oldtimer1 on January 24, 2015, 07:14:49 AM
Holder knew he had nothing on Wilson, but starting the investigation allows him to bring civil rights violations against the entire PD in Ferguson, which is the end goal and is still on-going.

He will just put them under Federal monitoring for a couple of years like what was done to the NJ State Police. Then when they find nothing but trivial stuff and it will be dropped.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: oldschoolfan on January 24, 2015, 07:31:08 AM
the guy shouldnt have gotten out of the car like that,   
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: Thick Nick on January 24, 2015, 08:26:34 AM
Not this shit again... Not the dead blackie... That's fine. I mean the outrage.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: Tapeworm on January 24, 2015, 08:36:00 AM
Seriously, until you've have a calzone in Jersey you just don't know.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: oldtimer1 on January 24, 2015, 08:42:10 AM
Seriously, until you've have a calzone in Jersey you just don't know.

The rest of the country thinks Pizza Hut and Dominos makes good pizza. Until you have a pizza made by an Italian in NJ or NY you never had a pizza. Imagine what garbage a fast food pizza chain calzone would be like?
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: SF1900 on January 24, 2015, 09:04:29 AM
Terrifying Video Shows Black Man "With His Hands Raised" Shot To Death By New Jersey Cop

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2015/01/jerame-reid-police-shot-video

A newly released dashcam recording shows a New Jersey police officer fatally shooting a black man whose hands were raised in the air.

The fatal encounter stems from a routine traffic stop on December 30, in which Bridgeton officers Braheme Days and Roger Worley pulled over a vehicle for running through a stop sign.

While questioning the two men, Leroy Tutt and Jerame Reid, the video shows Days suddenly shouting to his partner, "We've got a gun in his glove compartment!"

"Show me your fucking hands," Days, who appears to recognize Reid as he his heard calling him by his first name, warns. "He's reaching for something!"  

As the situation intensifies, Reid can be heard telling the officers, "I'm not reaching for nothing. I ain't got no reason to reach for nothing." He then tells Days, "I'm getting out and getting on the ground."

Reid gets up and exits the car with his hands raised. Then the two officers fire at least six shots, killing Reid.

"The video speaks for itself that at no point was Jerame Reid a threat and he possessed no weapon on his person," Walter Hudson of the civil rights group National Awareness Alliance said Wednesday.

According to records, Reid was in prison for 13 years for shooting at a state trooper when he was a teenager.

On Tuesday, the Bridgeton Police Department expressed its disappointment over the video's release "out of respect for the family." An investigation into the fatal shooting is being conducted.

The recording comes amid reports the Ferguson police officer who fatally shot 18-year-old Michael Brown will be cleared of federal civil rights charges. The August shooting sparked massive protests around the country with the chant, "Hands up, don't shoot" serving as a symbolic call for justice in Brown's death.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: Erik C on January 24, 2015, 09:27:13 AM
So the scumbag shot a State Trooper? What goes around, comes  around. Ain't Karma a Bitch!
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: ChuckleHead on January 24, 2015, 10:15:58 AM
I know I shouldn't make such definitive statements about a huge nation like that because in actuality I don't know.

But I remember when I once visited there, everyone had this weird way of talking, like they were 50% movie and 50% reality. And people I once went school with who were exchange students, especially the gals told me that the american guys have no own opinions on anything and didn't have any depth, but the parties were phenomenal.

your view is fairly accurate.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: oldtimer1 on January 24, 2015, 10:23:30 AM
What's left out of that is that he is known to the police in the area and his prior criminal past. If a guy who has shot at  a cop before is with a gun again I wouldn't trust anything he says.

You have to realize that a cop makes a decision in seconds. Then it is debated in the courts with expert consultants for months before a decision is made. Police are legally empowered to use deadly force when appropriate, and a 1989 Supreme Court decision concluded that an officer's use of force must be evaluated through the "perspective of a reasonable officer on scene rather than with the 20/20 vision of hindsight."
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: 240 is Back on January 24, 2015, 10:25:14 AM
cops are under a lot of stress.  Like the NYC Mayor said, you have to be careful!  Maybe the dude thought it was alright to jump out of car and explain shit, but with a gun right there, coming at the cop, he created a situation where the cop chose to use deadly force.

That cop probably shouldn't be a cop anymore - move him to desk duty, teach him a clerical skill.  He did shoot a man that was advancing, not following directions clearly.  Then again, we don'ot know if he's drunk, if he's mentally retarded, etc.   So don't charge him, but he can't be on the street next week, doing this this again.

I look fwd to seeing the passengers 5th grade graduation pictures on MSNBC by Monday morning  ;D
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: tommywishbone on January 24, 2015, 10:35:14 AM
Pigs always yell using that same stupid voice. Pigs are rude. First pigs are rude and then the pig kills you. So very piggish.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: ChuckleHead on January 24, 2015, 10:37:27 AM
circa 1950s:

population of new york: little over 8 million
size of police force: 5000

today:
population of new york: little over 8 million
size of police force: over 35,000

food for thought.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: Competitor 9 on January 24, 2015, 10:56:54 AM
He's in the clear in my book.. He know this thugs dangerous past.

He told him exactly what was going to happen. Don't move, show me your hands, if you get out of the car I will shoot you, you will be dead


Well guess what happened

If he would have done what was said he would be back in jail and our tax money going to feed and cloth him again, frankly in greatful. One less mouth taking food away from people who deserve it
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: Slapper on January 24, 2015, 10:57:42 AM
Only good cop is a dead cop.

And this video proves it.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: obsidian on January 24, 2015, 11:01:45 AM
Justified shooting. He was told repeatedly to show his hands and failed to comply, and then exited the vehicle without being asked to and approached the officer. Even with his hands up he could have lunged at the cop. That cop could have been dead if he did not shoot. It has happened before.

The ex-criminal who was shot was a moron for not using common sense and paid for it with his life.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: ChuckleHead on January 24, 2015, 11:26:30 AM
years back i had an experience with some cops.

i was driving with a friend, we were pulled over for no reason, over the loud speaker they said "shut off the engine and put the keys on top of the roof and keep your hands up". i was stunned and nervous, this just a traffic stop.

i did exactly what they said, they approached on both sides with their guns drawn and pointed at both of us. we didn't move one bit. after some disrespectful talk on their part, they let us go.

i worked at a mom and pop business, i told my boss what happened and described the cops. a good friend of his was a lieutenant in the precinct, he told him the story and what the cops looked like, the lieutenant told him those cops were known to be trigger happy and that i was lucky because had i deviated one bit they would have shot me.

i knew the same lieutenant because he used to stop by the store all the time to chat with my boss. he was one hard, no nonsense guy and he thought those were bad cops and they were in fact being looked at by their superiors.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: Slapper on January 24, 2015, 11:27:22 AM
What's left out of that is that he is known to the police in the area and his prior criminal past. If a guy who has shot at  a cop before is with a gun again I wouldn't trust anything he says.

Exactly, it wasn't a routine stop, these cops were "hunting".
 
Quote
You have to realize that a cop makes a decision in seconds.

With their overtly hostile tone it's no wonder they are now getting shot at. In fact, unless the high-ups start training these folks on how to approach different situations, I can almost guarantee that police stations will get raided (kind of what used to happen in Harlem during the 60s and 70s) if they keep harassing the population they are supposed to protect.

Personally, I love it when I hear that a cop got shot to death. Tough. Fucking. Shit. Should've been a plumber.

Quote
Then it is debated in the courts with expert consultants for months before a decision is made.

Cops are rarely indicted. People just do not want to believe the obvious: That cops are just as bad as the criminals they say they are "protecting" us from.

Quote
Police are legally empowered to use deadly force when appropriate, and a 1989 Supreme Court decision concluded that an officer's use of force must be valuated through the "perspective of a reasonable officer on scene rather than with the 20/20 vision of hindsight."

I think there's sufficient evidence nowadays to seriously put into question the "reasonable" in an officer's perspective.

And do not bring up the "Supreme Court" into this because there's plenty of evidence too, as to how WRONG they've called it in the past. Let's just go on universal law, or do not do onto others what you wouldn't want done onto you.  
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: Grape Ape on January 24, 2015, 11:33:02 AM
Only good cop is a dead cop.

And this video proves it.

The only thing proven here is you're a moron.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: Slapper on January 24, 2015, 11:34:52 AM
This post proves you're a moron.

Really? Even though I haven't killed anyone in my life and there's a video, A VIDEO, on the first page of this thread, of a cop killing a civilian.

See if you can find a SINGLE video of me killing anyone anywhere.

Go fuck yourself.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: Erik C on January 24, 2015, 11:36:39 AM
Exactly, it wasn't a routine stop, these cops were "hunting."


Well if they were "hunting," then they bagged the proper prey! It should be open season on violent criminals of all races, all year around, with no bag limit!
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: Slapper on January 24, 2015, 11:38:44 AM
Well if they were "hunting," then they bagged the proper prey! It should be open season on violent criminals of all races, all year around, with no bag limit!

Exactly, they are essentially hunters, not cops. And they do not let badges and uniforms get in the way either.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: Grape Ape on January 24, 2015, 11:40:41 AM
Really? Even though I haven't killed anyone in my life and there's a video, A VIDEO, on the first page of this thread, of a cop killing a civilian.

See if you can find a SINGLE video of me killing anyone anywhere.

Go fuck yourself.

No, you're a moron because you've taken the video, and applied it to every policeman everywhere.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: SF1900 on January 24, 2015, 11:42:20 AM
Well if they were "hunting," then they bagged the proper prey! It should be open season on violent criminals of all races, all year around, with no bag limit!

That easy, huh? Just kill anyone who is a violent criminal? If they were current violent criminals and apprehended, they would most likely be in jail. If they were violent past criminals and are walking the street, there is also a chance they are no longer being a criminal. Then how do you differentiate between those past violent criminals who are still criminals, and those past violent criminals who are no longer criminals, in order to avoid just shooting anyone who was a past violent criminal?
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: Erik C on January 24, 2015, 11:43:27 AM
Exactly, they are essentially hunters, not cops. And they do not let badges and uniforms get in the way either.

Their job is protecting society from dirtball, violent criminals. In this case they did a good job. They should shoot dead, more scumbag criminals, for any reason whatsoever that they can make up. Every time a violent criminal dies, it's a good thing.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: 240 is Back on January 24, 2015, 11:45:18 AM
I will add - at that close range, with a slow moving target, he really did have chance to AIM for something different.

I know they're taught to aim center mass/head to bring down a threat... but unarmed guy advancing, eh, this is a tough one. 

Dude was a stone cold IDIOT to get out of car.  But past offenses shouldn't have played into it.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: Erik C on January 24, 2015, 11:47:23 AM
That easy, huh? Just kill anyone who is a violent criminal? If they were current violent criminals and apprehended, they would most likely be in jail. If they were violent past criminals and are walking the street, there is also a chance they are no longer being a criminal. Then how do you differentiate between those past violent criminals who are still criminals, and those past violent criminals who are no longer criminals, in order to avoid just shooting anyone who was a past violent criminal?

A leopard doesn't change it's spots. Criminals have declared war on society, and will continue their criminal ways until they are incarcerated for life, or killed. Killed is better. The rule should be: "One strike, and you're dead." That will solve many social problems.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: Slapper on January 24, 2015, 12:00:00 PM
No, you're a moron because you've taken the video, and applied it to every policeman everywhere.

No, not at all. My opinion is not based on only that video, it based on many cop-killing-civilian videos, books like The New Jim Crow, Sundown Towns, et cetera; as well as having lived through multiple rather nasty encounters with various policemen in various towns, in which I happened to get the worst of the exchange, going from losing teeth to having to go fight a $250/6 point ticket the day after I got laid off.

The one make a monumental assumption (thinking that my opinion of cops is based on a single video) is you.

Go fuck a cop.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: SF1900 on January 24, 2015, 12:06:26 PM
A leopard doesn't change it's spots. Criminals have declared war on society, and will continue their criminal ways until they are incarcerated for life, or killed. Killed is better. The rule should be: "One strike, and you're dead." That will solve many social problems.

I wrote out a statement, but erased it. I can't even debate a statement like that.  :-\
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: Erik C on January 24, 2015, 12:12:23 PM
"as well as having lived through multiple rather nasty encounters with various policemen in various towns, in which I happened to get the worst of the exchange, going from losing teeth to having to go fight a $250/6 point ticket the day after I got laid off.

So let's see....You got a ticket, and got into a fight with the Meter Maid, who knocked out couple of your teeth, after you got fired, for being stoned at work, so you hate cops. My piles bleed for you!
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: Slapper on January 24, 2015, 12:15:31 PM
Their job is protecting society from dirtball, violent criminals. In this case they did a good job. They should shoot dead, more scumbag criminals, for any reason whatsoever that they can make up. Every time a violent criminal dies, it's a good thing.

I'm sorry but I didn't see anything "violent" about that criminal. If he was a criminal at all.

What we all saw was an overtly hostile cop shooting to kill when shooting a different, non-essential, body part would've sufficed. If apprehending the criminal were the intention that is.

What these two cops did was hunt these two persons and intentionally kill one of them with little to no provocation. Meaning the cop seemingly wanted to kill that individual.

That action should send a clear message to ALL of society as to HOW FAR these assholes in a uniform will go to send a clear message that cops are above civilians.

As i said before, cops kill more civilians than viceversa.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: Slapper on January 24, 2015, 12:21:56 PM
So let's see....You got a ticket, and got into a fight with the Meter Maid, who knocked out couple of your teeth, after you got fired, for being stoned at work, so you hate cops. My piles bleed for you!

No, two separate incidents. Read my past messages for a more detailed description of the encounters, if you're interested (even though I can sense you're just being passive-aggressive).

But the thread is not about me, so please send me a PM.

 
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: Grape Ape on January 24, 2015, 12:29:36 PM
No, not at all. My opinion is not based on only that video, it based on many cop-killing-civilian videos, books like The New Jim Crow, Sundown Towns, et cetera; as well as having lived through multiple rather nasty encounters with various policemen in various towns, in which I happened to get the worst of the exchange, going from losing teeth to having to go fight a $250/6 point ticket the day after I got laid off.

The one make a monumental assumption (thinking that my opinion of cops is based on a single video) is you.

Go fuck a cop.

Given the large number of policeman, you're always going to have bad ones, and also unfortunate circumstances.  Still doesn't every cop should be killed.  Most police officers are good people.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: SF1900 on January 24, 2015, 12:42:56 PM
Given the large number of policeman, you're always going to have bad ones, and also unfortunate circumstances.  Still doesn't every cop should be killed.  Most police officers are good people.

In my opinion, its hard to determine what a good cop is. Sure, most cops who pull me over for a moving violation are just fine. However, I also determine moral action when you're put in a scenario that really determines character.

Lets be honest here: If there was a scenario where two cops approached a person. Let say cop 1 used excessive force and was clearly wrong in the situation. Let say cops 2 was just standing by. When it is all said and done, and cop 2 needs to give a statement to his boss, is cop 2 more likely to side with the civilian or side with his partner (cop 1)? I'd say the majority of cops, not all,  would side with their partner, even if their partner was clearly wrong. And this may be a good cop who acts just fine when interacting with civilians.

That is why its so hard to say what is a good or bad cop, because different scenarios will elicit different responses. You can have a supposedly good cop take the side of his crooked partner. I can't imagine too many scenarios where even a good cop would go against his partner. The police department is very cult-like in that manner.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: Grape Ape on January 24, 2015, 12:47:13 PM
In my opinion, its hard to determine what a good cop is. Sure, most cops who pull me over for a moving violation are just fine. However, I also determine moral action when you're put in a scenario that really determines character.

Lets be honest here: If there was a scenario where two cops approached a person. Let say cop 1 used excessive force and was clearly wrong in the situation. Let say cops 2 was just standing by. When it is all said and done, and cop 2 needs to give a statement to his boss, is cop 2 more likely to side with the civilian or side with his partner (cop 1)? I'd say the majority of cops, not all,  would side with their partner, even if their partner was clearly wrong. And this may be a good that interactions just fine with civilians on a daily basis.

That is why its so hard to say what is a good or bad cop, because different scenarios will elicit different responses.

Take out policeman and use construction worker, firefighter, and accountant, and I'd think most would back up their peers and co workers vs the gen pop.

But regardless of the situation, good cops will do their job to uphold and abide by the law.  I don't think the lines are that blurred.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: BIG ACH on January 24, 2015, 12:55:36 PM
I was pulled over last month (ticket was $500+ :-/ ) but none of these shenanigans went on... I was polite and the officer was actually pleasant despite the expensive ass ticket... He was very professional and friendly.  I think the general public is being too harsh on cops.... Don't act like a dick and you won't be treated like one.  We heard about all these shootings, assaults, choke holds, etc. How does it come to this... What did the civilian do to escalate it to that level.

People forget cops deal with the shittiest ass people in the world, they are always on edge, don't make their job harder, just be polite and cooperate.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: SF1900 on January 24, 2015, 12:56:17 PM
Take out policeman and use construction worker, firefighter, and accountant, and I'd think most would back up their peers and co workers vs the gen pop.

But regardless of the situation, good cops will do their job to uphold and abide by the law.  I don't think the lines are that blurred.

Depends. In many jobs people are mandated reporters and if they suspect a coworker is harming a client, they are required by state law to report them or they can lose their license, get thrown in jail or be fined. So, it really depends on the occupation. Some jobs have VERY strict guidelines about reporting coworkers.

The issue is that many of those jobs you described do not involve direct contact with people on a daily basis. Furthermore, those jobs usually do not involve a person's life being put in danger on a daily basis (except fireman). You would hope that cops are held to a higher moral standard than a construction worker, given their oaths to serve and protect the population on a daily and continuous basis. Thus, it becomes even more stickier when one cop covers for another cop, considering the high need civilians place on cops to be honest and moral, even beyond a construction worker.

Yes, the thing is, how many good cops are out there that will actually speak out against their partners and corruption within the department? As I said, its very cult-like, so many cops would fear retaliation and ostracization by other cops, and thus will remain silent. Its actually similar to the street rule, "No snitching." Police departments need to do a better job of celebrating those good cops who bring down corruption within the department, instead of ostracizing them. Its really an organizational problem. And there have been quite a few instances of this.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: Grape Ape on January 24, 2015, 01:07:02 PM
Depends. In many jobs people are mandated reporters and if they suspect a coworker is harming a client, they are required by state law to report them or they can lose their license, get thrown in jail or be fined. So, it really depends on the occupation. Some jobs have VERY strict guidelines about reporting coworkers.

The issue is that many of those jobs you described do not involve direct contact with people on a daily basis. Furthermore, those jobs usually do not involve a person's life being put in danger on a daily basis (except fireman). You would hope that cops are held to a higher moral standard than a construction worker, given their oaths to serve and protect the population on a daily and continuous basis. Thus, it becomes even more stickier when one cop covers for another cop, considering the high need civilians place on cops to be honest and moral, even beyond a construction worker.

Yes, the thing is, how many good cops are out there that will actually speak out against their partners and corruption within the department? As I said, its very cult-like, so many cops would fear retaliation and ostracization by other cops, and thus will remain silent. Its actually similar to the street rule, "No snitching." Police departments need to do a better job of celebrating those good cops who bring down corruption within the department, instead of ostracizing them. Its really an organizational problem. And there have been quite a few instances of this.

The problem is you've created a specific, hypothetical situation, and applied your own subjectivity to it.   It's still the law of large numbers.  I'm sure what you mentioned actually happens.  But, does it happen on such a large scale that it's indicative of the whole population?  Of course not.  You'd have to have an astounding rate of occurrence.  And if it happened at that rate, we'd be having much, much more social unrest as a result.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: SF1900 on January 24, 2015, 01:12:29 PM
The problem is you've created a specific, hypothetical situation, and applied your own subjectivity to it.   It's still the law of large numbers.  I'm sure what you mentioned actually happens.  But, does it happen on such a large scale that it's indicative of the whole population?  Of course not.  You'd have to have an astounding rate of occurrence.  And if it happened at that rate, we'd be having much, much more social unrest as a result.

I do wonder how much mild corruption goes on in police departments that many officers know about, but are kept silenced. Its impossible to study, because of the silence among police officers due to possible fear and intimidation.

Just because its a hypothetical situation, it does not mean that it does not occur on a large scale, nor does it mean its not worthy of discussing. This is the same reason why it took so long for it to come out about priests molesting altar boys and Sandusky having sex with boys because certain institutions (church and penn state) made it very difficult to obtain that knowledge. And guess what? It was happening on a large scale, however, these institutions used fear and intimidation to silence people.  It doesn't mean all priests are molesters and all football coaches are molesters, but this was happening on a large enough scale to make people throw their arms up and say, "enough is enough." Now, this may or may not be happening in the police force. I don't know. But it is not totally implausible to throw out such a hypothesis. As stated previously, it would be nearly impossible to really get an accurate representation about how many cops know about corruption but remain silent.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: Erik C on January 24, 2015, 01:58:34 PM
I wrote out a statement, but erased it. I can't even debate a statement like that.  :-\

Of course you can't. When I right, I'm right. You can't argue with the truth, facts, and reality, without you looking stupid.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: Grape Ape on January 24, 2015, 02:05:06 PM
I do wonder how much mild corruption goes on in police departments that many officers know about, but are kept silenced. Its impossible to study, because of the silence among police officers due to possible fear and intimidation.

Just because its a hypothetical situation, it does not mean that it does not occur on a large scale, nor does it mean its not worthy of discussing. This is the same reason why it took so long for it to come out about priests molesting altar boys and Sandusky having sex with boys because certain institutions (church and penn state) made it very difficult to obtain that knowledge. And guess what? It was happening on a large scale, however, these institutions used fear and intimidation to silence people.  It doesn't mean all priests are molesters and all football coaches are molesters, but this was happening on a large enough scale to make people throw their arms up and say, "enough is enough." Now, this may or may not be happening in the police force. I don't know. But it is not totally implausible to throw out such a hypothesis. As stated previously, it would be nearly impossible to really get an accurate representation about how many cops know about corruption but remain silent.

Your point is well thought out, but if so many people were mistreated by police officers at the scale you're talking about, we'd hear much, much more.  I get the Catholic Church thing, but it's a different crime, against a population extremely young from a different time.  It's not the same.  If police were doing this on a grand scale with adults, there'd be so much more press, especially in this age where things go viral instantly.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: SF1900 on January 24, 2015, 02:18:46 PM
Your point is well thought out, but if so many people were mistreated by police officers at the scale you're talking about, we'd hear much, much more.  I get the Catholic Church thing, but it's a different crime, against a population extremely young from a different time.  It's not the same.  If police were doing this on a grand scale with adults, there'd be so much more press, especially in this age where things go viral instantly.

Agreed with what you said. To me, its the same in the sense that it shows that large institutions can and do silence people from speaking out, even the good people.

The conversation did sort of switch to discussing what is considered a good cop in more general terms. I think a good cop is one that treats its civilians fairly, but also exposes police corruption within the department (that can be exposing excessive use of force by other officers or a corrupt boss, etc). I agree that the issue of mistreatment of adults is probably not widespread in that sense, however, I would not be surprised if corruption existed on other levels within the police department. I realize this is getting off-base, as the original topic was primarily about police brutality/excessive force.

I stand by my statement: Many large organizations (churches, police departments, military etc.) use fear of intimidation and ostracization to keep people silent. I think the police department does have many organizational issues that may lead to silencing its workers, even those good cops that want to do the right thing. Sometimes its tough to do the right thing when you have so much on the line (job, pension, salary, etc.). As stated, this is off-topic and is a whole other topic for discussion.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: Teutonic Knight on January 24, 2015, 02:19:36 PM
He should have been killed the first time he tried to shoot a cop. Why are we so concerned with a convict carrying a gun?  

Black lives matter? You have 2589 people shot in Chicago alone in 2014. Most of the victims were black. Most of the known shooters are black. Where is Sharpton? Where are the protests? Where are the majority liberal news providers in print, internet and television? What do liberals care about? They care about guys that break the law, have criminal records, resist arrest and assault cops.

How's this for a statistic. In 2012 123 blacks were killed by cops and 326 whites. These stats came from the CDC.



Just like African tribal wars , must be genetics.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: SF1900 on January 24, 2015, 02:21:33 PM
Of course you can't. When I right, I'm right. You can't argue with the truth, facts, and reality, without you looking stupid.

okay, cool.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: Robgun1 on January 24, 2015, 02:21:48 PM
Here we go again.      ::)
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: SF1900 on January 24, 2015, 02:23:53 PM
Here we go again.      ::)

It's getbig. The nature of the forum is arguing with each other.  :D :D
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: Slapper on January 24, 2015, 03:32:35 PM
I was pulled over last month (ticket was $500+ :-/ ) but none of these shenanigans went on... I was polite and the officer was actually pleasant despite the expensive ass ticket... He was very professional and friendly.  I think the general public is being too harsh on cops.... Don't act like a dick and you won't be treated like one.  We heard about all these shootings, assaults, choke holds, etc. How does it come to this... What did the civilian do to escalate it to that level.

People forget cops deal with the shittiest ass people in the world, they are always on edge, don't make their job harder, just be polite and cooperate.

Did you let him fuck your wife too?
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: Thespritz0 on January 24, 2015, 04:06:47 PM
I DID NOT see any "hands up" with the passenger!!  He was fighting the whole time then barreled out of the car presumably to fight it out...
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: ChuckleHead on January 24, 2015, 05:47:18 PM
after watching the video i have to say the cop had little choice.

the cop didn't have to shoot but he would have been risking his and his partner's life.

there was a gun present within the detainee's reach. he was told expressly not to reach or move repeatedly. the guy did not comply but resisted, you can even see the cop pushing against the car door to keep it closed which the guy forced open and then popped out.

there can only be one reason why he didn't comply, he had bad intentions.

and if he didn't, the reason you comply is because you know the cop can;t know your intentions.

how much more clearer can you put it than "if you reach you will be fucking dead", over and over again. did he think the cop wasn't serious?

notice the driver was not shot. he complied.

i'm the last guy to defend cops. but the guy asked for it.

if anyone of us was in that same spot, none of us would move.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: Pray_4_War on January 24, 2015, 05:52:42 PM
Sad that it had to go down like that but it was a good shoot.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: ChuckleHead on January 24, 2015, 09:24:21 PM
i just saw a better quality video. i thought the gun was still in the car, but the fucking cop took the gun first, i didn't notice that in the version here. how can that be a justified if the cop took the gun? there was not imminent threat.......... bad shooting. bad. murder.

 
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: woodman on January 25, 2015, 03:18:15 AM
i just saw a better quality video. i thought the gun was still in the car, but the fucking cop took the gun first, i didn't notice that in the version here. how can that be a justified if the cop took the gun? there was not imminent threat.......... bad shooting. bad. murder.

 
because your taught if you find one gun look for more...easily over a dozen times I arrested someone who was carrying multiple firearms including a man in a wheelchair armed with 6 revolvers!
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: Slapper on January 25, 2015, 06:08:31 AM
I DID NOT see any "hands up" with the passenger!!  He was fighting the whole time then barreled out of the car presumably to fight it out...

You cannot shoot nyone based on presumptions, and even when you shoot you have multiple non-vital parts to choose from.

Like I said, these two cops were out there hunting.
Title: Re: New Jersey Cop Fatally Shoots Unarmed Man With His Hands Up
Post by: woodman on January 25, 2015, 08:39:13 AM
You cannot shoot nyone based on presumptions, and even when you shoot you have multiple non-vital parts to choose from.

Like I said, these two cops were out there hunting.
of course they were hunting ( but to catch) violent criminals! Unfortunately this Darwin candidate couldn't follow the cops orders and paid the price! Case closed