Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Gargamel on April 09, 2015, 10:27:08 AM
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I think if you are weak in some muscle group thats genetics and they will never be on par with the rest of your physique.
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It's just not going to happen (of course my point of view is only from the natty side)
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I've brought up my chest. It's still a weak point it will never be a strong point but it can improve
This is almost one year difference exactly
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Arnold supposedly brought up his weak calves but I've never seen any conclusive evidence of a before and after shot - his calves always appeared good.
As for me, I used to have no front delts or thick lats but I've brought them up considerably. Still working on the calves and abs though.
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As long as it has nothing to do with being lazy then there is no way in hell you are ever going to get a weak point up on par with the rest.
The first couple of years of training my back was pretty weak compared to the rest but that was because I was never giving it the same attention
that my other bodyparts got. After a few more years I balanced this out. My quads and especially my calves on the other hand are so strong that I
can barely work them at all and they are still ahead of other muscles.
I've been trying to improve my biceps for years and years but it will always be lagging way behind the rest of my body.
The only way I could get them on the same level was to stop working the rest and only train the biceps but who the hell would actually consider doing that?
You should not give up early though - sometimes a bodypart is just behind because of other factors than genetics.. like weak mind-muscle connection or the wrong kind
of training for that muscle... but someone with weak calves can probably try everything there is and never get them to the level mine are at without even doing any specific excersises...
walking around at >220 lbs with high hormone levels are enough for them to be a strong part.
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Hardly possible - think about it... why was it a weak point to begin with?
With juice and lots of reps maybe.
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Hardly possible - think about it... why was it a weak point to begin with?
With juice and lots of reps maybe.
Not really. Fact is it comes down to muscle mind connection. I use to go heavy on chest. But it would never grow. Because my sholders where so dominate they took over any pressing exercise. After lowering the wieght and really learning to use my chest did I start noticing growth. Now I'm back up to my old wieght but with crazy chest pumps like never before. Don't act like everyone know how to train or has muscle mind connection off the bat it takes years to develope a style of lifting that fits you body
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I've brought up my chest. It's still a weak point it will never be a strong point but it can improve
This is almost one year difference exactly
Chest looks improved/fuller but it looks like you were in better shape in the before, is that right?
Your face looks leaner and delt-arm tie-in looks better as well as your hamstrings. Could be the lighting though, what would you say?
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Chest looks improved/fuller but it looks like you were in better shape in the before, is that right?
Your face looks leaner and delt-arm tie-in looks better as well as your hamstrings. Could be the lighting though, what would you say?
you miised a long 30/35 page thread on his last show,a lot of pics,,his chest improved a lot actually,he was washed out in the new pics'lighting 'sucked and few days before looked pretty dry compared to the last show,last minute changes played on his condition in the end.
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Chest looks improved/fuller but it looks like you were in better shape in the before, is that right?
Your face looks leaner and delt-arm tie-in looks better as well as your hamstrings. Could be the lighting though, what would you say?
I was in better shape. I spilled over no hiding that. But the lighting was fucking terrible. Everyone's asking for there money back. It was like cave lighting
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Not really. Fact is it comes down to muscle mind connection. I use to go heavy on chest. But it would never grow. Because my sholders where so dominate they took over any pressing exercise. After lowering the wieght and really learning to use my chest did I start noticing growth. Now I'm back up to my old wieght but with crazy chest pumps like never before. Don't act like everyone know how to train or has muscle mind connection off the bat it takes years to develope a style of lifting that fits you body
I have to agree with your notion and on top of that you have a pic to prove your theory so your opinion carries way more weight than mine.
Nonetheless I would slightly lower the expectations when it is a muscle/group that has less length and "initial base meat" than another group on your body.
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You ever see people with really weak calves(almost like they never been trained at all) train their calves? In a lot of cases they're weak because they have no clue how to attack them. And can't put up with the pain it will take to get serious growth out of them...They train them like every other body part and see no growth whatsoever...
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:-\
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:-\
Holy shit :o It looks like those twigs are barely able to support his upper body..
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I've brought up my chest. It's still a weak point it will never be a strong point but it can improve
This is almost one year difference exactly
You need to hit that squat rack......dat ass. :-\
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A genuine genetic weak point will always remain a weak point.
If a body part is weak due to a lack of training or improper training, than that's different.
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Not really. Fact is it comes down to muscle mind connection. I use to go heavy on chest. But it would never grow. Because my sholders where so dominate they took over any pressing exercise. After lowering the wieght and really learning to use my chest did I start noticing growth. Now I'm back up to my old wieght but with crazy chest pumps like never before. Don't act like everyone know how to train or has muscle mind connection off the bat it takes years to develope a style of lifting that fits you body
great post and tips ;)
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You need to hit that squat rack......dat ass. :-\
Lol I have a small ass :/ you can see that it take make some improvements. I'm doing a lot of glute work this offseason
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True
A genuine genetic weak point will always remain a weak point.
If a body part is weak due to a lack of training or improper training, than that's different.
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True
100% truth
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The only way to get get your weak point to "catch up" is to stop everything else and focus on the weak point. They will just bli slightly better bcz u wont let the rest of your muscle go flat out!
Calves became better with cycling and barefootrunning, 3 years...every second day or even more. Price! Lost of ass quads : )
Centopani have weak chest, wolf weak calves, milosh no arms...etc etc...
I have sen tremendous result for traps shoulder gain on roided guys! Seam to be the first muscle that POP during a cycle!
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I've brought up my chest. It's still a weak point it will never be a strong point but it can improve
This is almost one year difference exactly
glutes have improved too...no homo ;D
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Yes its possible.
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Yes its possible.
I agree. My deltoids were a definite weak spot but I prioritized them, bombed the hell out of them, and they responded.
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My calves were a real weak point, until I really started beating the shit out of them.
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Not really. Fact is it comes down to muscle mind connection. I use to go heavy on chest. But it would never grow. Because my sholders where so dominate they took over any pressing exercise. After lowering the wieght and really learning to use my chest did I start noticing growth. Now I'm back up to my old wieght but with crazy chest pumps like never before. Don't act like everyone know how to train or has muscle mind connection off the bat it takes years to develope a style of lifting that fits you body
I agree. When it comes to bringing up a weak part in my experience the find muscle connection has helped the most.
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My calves are a weak point and I have been consistently beating the shit out of them...and they still suck. I am gonna go "full Arnold" and only get photographed up to my knees in water.
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I agree. When it comes to bringing up a weak part in my experience the find muscle connection has helped the most.
There are times on Getbig when I can't be 100% sure that someone isn't just fucking with everybody in a response.
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My calves are a weak point and I have been consistently beating the shit out of them...and they still suck. I am gonna go "full Arnold" and only get photographed up to my knees in water. get a nice pair of implants
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There are times on Getbig when I can't be 100% sure that someone isn't just fucking with everybody in a response.
I was serious. But calves are possible an exception. You either have the genetics for them or you don't. But something like chest I feel can be improved with the mind muscle connection.
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When I first started training, my whole body was a weak point.
130lbs in 1985, 215lbs in 2015.
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When I first started training, my whole body was a weak point.
130lbs in 1985, 215lbs in 2015.
Everything can be improved but genetic shape won't change.
Gunter had a wide waist.
Marcus had no tris.
Branch is ugly.
Weak points are just that, shape and muscle bellies are the deciding factors.
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I've brought up my chest. It's still a weak point it will never be a strong point but it can improve
This is almost one year difference exactly
That's actually amazing progress
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That's actually amazing progress
Thank you sir. It really came down to just being smarter and stop ego lifting going 315 on bench to 135 and starting over again now I honestly don't go over 225 somtjmes 275 if im feeling it but I chase the pump now and solid time under tension I weight dosnt matter anymore
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Not really. Fact is it comes down to muscle mind connection. I use to go heavy on chest. But it would never grow. Because my sholders where so dominate they took over any pressing exercise. After lowering the wieght and really learning to use my chest did I start noticing growth. Now I'm back up to my old wieght but with crazy chest pumps like never before. Don't act like everyone know how to train or has muscle mind connection off the bat it takes years to develope a style of lifting that fits you body
How does lowering the weight change the strength ratio? Say when doing a "heavy" set of bench presses 70% of the load is taken up by your delts and triceps and 30% by your chest. How does this change when you lower the weight? Are you able to "mentally connect" to your pecs as you lower the resistance? If so, have you done that with all your body parts or are you satisfied not mentally connecting with your stronger parts.
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I think people make the error of mistaking an under trained or poorly trained body part for a genuinely genetically weak body part.
If a body part is weak purely because it has previously been ignored or trained improperly, than it obviously can be improved if training is corrected.
However, if we are talking about a body part that has been trained correctly and with various methods yet still remains weak, than that's a genuine genetic weak point....and there isn't anything that is going to improve it.
Look at many BB experts/gurus/trainers etc. These guys still often have lagging parts. Does anyone think it's down to improper training considering these guys will often train each muscle using every method and technique available?
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How does lowering the weight change the strength ratio? Say when doing a "heavy" set of bench presses 70% of the load is taken up by your delts and triceps and 30% by your chest. How does this change when you lower the weight? Are you able to "mentally connect" to your pecs as you lower the resistance? If so, have you done that with all your body parts or are you satisfied not mentally connecting with your stronger parts.
It's a simple concept when you are using to much weight your not engageone your weaker body part. So when your drop the wieght you can focus on the right muscle. It's no different then me curling 180lbs can I do it? Sure will I be focusing on my bis? No my back and sholders sbf everthing else is going to kick in. Now let's say I drop that to 80. Think I'll have a easier time focusing just my biceps and actually feel them working. Absolulty
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I think people make the error of mistaking an under trained or poorly trained body part for a genuinely genetically weak body part.
If a body part is weak purely because it has previously been ignored or trained improperly, than it obviously can be improved if training is corrected.
However, if we are talking about a body part that has been trained correctly and with various methods yet still remains weak, than that's a genuine genetic weak point....and there isn't anything that is going to improve it.
Look at many BB experts/gurus/trainers etc. These guys still often have lagging parts. Does anyone think it's down to improper training considering these guys will often train each muscle using every method and technique available?
You are correct. When accessing "weak" body parts in the context of bodybuilding it matters what stage of development they are at and how they have trained. Even Arnold admitted in his first autobiography that, like most of his peers, concentrated on arms and chest. The big show pieces. It's only after he met and trained with Reg Park and really focused on his calves did they explode.
But that was the case with Arnold. Not everyone is as fortunate or genetically gifted. And lets not forget that we all start out with weak body parts. All of them. Look at Platz. Skinny arms, skinny legs, skinny everything. So why did his quads blow up to such a level that it set a whole new standard for quad development. Did he simply have more of a "mind/muscle" connection with his quads than with his arms and chest. Plaz was an especially intense and focused individual. it's highly unlikely that he did focus on his upper body as much as he did on his legs if not more so because he, like everybody else, recognized the disparity.
Barring site injects and synthol I think it was Van B who said that as the physique advances, even the weak parts, the disparity will always exist. Look at Jay. Even at 16-18 years of age he had tremendous quads but the disparity between his left and right quads were always there. Even as they both grew to world class proportions the disparity was there. Same for his arms. Even with synthol his left arm was always more developed than his right arm.
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It's a simple concept when you are using to much weight your not engageone your weaker body part. So when your drop the wieght you can focus on the right muscle. It's no different then me curling 180lbs can I do it? Sure will I be focusing on my bis? No my back and sholders sbf everthing else is going to kick in. Now let's say I drop that to 80. Think I'll have a easier time focusing just my biceps and actually feel them working. Absolulty
Actually, that's an entirely different thing. It has to do with form and the difference between cheating, i.e., throwing the weight up, as oppose to lifting it and making the targeted muscle do the work. That's quite different from some kind of mental connection with your muscle. Why can't you think and connect with a muscle, say your delts, when doing a clean and jerk? Feeling a muscle and "connecting" with a muscle are two different things. I mean, I can start squeezing and flexing my bicep right now and really feel it. Maybe even cramp up from it. But nobody believes that will stimulate any muscle hypertrophy.
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You are correct. When accessing "weak" body parts in the context of bodybuilding it matters what stage of development they are at and how they have trained. Even Arnold admitted in his first autobiography that, like most of his peers, concentrated on arms and chest. The big show pieces. It's only after he met and trained with Reg Park and really focused on his calves did they explode.
But that was the case with Arnold. Not everyone is as fortunate or genetically gifted. And lets not forget that we all start out with weak body parts. All of them. Look at Platz. Skinny arms, skinny legs, skinny everything. So why did his quads blow up to such a level that it set a whole new standard for quad development. Did he simply have more of a "mind/muscle" connection with his quads than with his arms and chest. Plaz was an especially intense and focused individual. it's highly unlikely that he did focus on his upper body as much as he did on his legs if not more so because he, like everybody else, recognized the disparity.
Barring site injects and synthol I think it was Van B who said that as the physique advances, even the weak parts, the disparity will always exist. Look at Jay. Even at 16-18 years of age he had tremendous quads but the disparity between his left and right quads were always there. Even as they both grew to world class proportions the disparity was there. Same for his arms. Even with synthol his left arm was always more developed than his right arm.
Actually, that's an entirely different thing. It has to do with form and the difference between cheating, i.e., throwing the weight up, as oppose to lifting it and making the targeted muscle do the work. That's quite different from some kind of mental connection with your muscle. Why can't you think and connect with a muscle, say your delts, when doing a clean and jerk? Feeling a muscle and "connecting" with a muscle are two different things. I mean, I can start squeezing and flexing my bicep right now and really feel it. Maybe even cramp up from it. But nobody believes that will stimulate any muscle hypertrophy.
Zzz.....
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Actually, that's an entirely different thing. It has to do with form and the difference between cheating, i.e., throwing the weight up, as oppose to lifting it and making the targeted muscle do the work. That's quite different from some kind of mental connection with your muscle. Why can't you think and connect with a muscle, say your delts, when doing a clean and jerk? Feeling a muscle and "connecting" with a muscle are two different things. I mean, I can start squeezing and flexing my bicep right now and really feel it. Maybe even cramp up from it. But nobody believes that will stimulate any muscle hypertrophy.
I could be wrong im just speaking of person experience.
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It's a simple concept when you are using to much weight your not engageone your weaker body part. So when your drop the wieght you can focus on the right muscle. It's no different then me curling 180lbs can I do it? Sure will I be focusing on my bis? No my back and sholders sbf everthing else is going to kick in. Now let's say I drop that to 80. Think I'll have a easier time focusing just my biceps and actually feel them working. Absolulty
Great post.. itīs not just lifting massive weights...unless you are a powerlifter. got to hit the muscle group in question and leave your ego at the gym door.
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I've brought up my chest. It's still a weak point it will never be a strong point but it can improve
This is almost one year difference exactly
Norwood 3 to Norwood 4. Outstanding.
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It's a simple concept when you are using to much weight your not engageone your weaker body part. So when your drop the wieght you can focus on the right muscle. It's no different then me curling 180lbs can I do it? Sure will I be focusing on my bis? No my back and sholders sbf everthing else is going to kick in. Now let's say I drop that to 80. Think I'll have a easier time focusing just my biceps and actually feel them working. Absolulty
Funny you should mention it. Did you know that Joon can curl 180? There's a video to prove it. Ask him about it.
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Navy Mike is like Big Rami and Frank Zone combined, more musclemass than Rami and better symmetry than Zane.
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Navy Mike is like Big Rami and Frank Zone combined, more musclemass than Rami and better symmetry than Zane.
Haha smartass.
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Everything can be improved but genetic shape won't change.
Gunter had a wide waist.
Marcus had no tris.
Branch is ugly.
Weak points are just that, shape and muscle bellies are the deciding factors.
You cannot change the muscle insertion points, but your overall shape does change as you get bigger. Take a look at Flex Wheeler before he started... dude was a walking bean pole.
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larry scott =delts, arnold calves...
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Even the pros have weak points
For example phil Heath history's worst mr o has the worst chest and most narrow shoulders
His accomplishments will never be remembered
Only his shortcomings
On the stage and off stage
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You cannot change the muscle insertion points, but your overall shape does change as you get bigger. Take a look at Flex Wheeler before he started... dude was a walking bean pole.
Obviously weight training changes your body, none of us here look the same from when we started. I'm a lot bigger now than I was at 3.
My point was weak spots are usually weak spots no matter how much you train them, can they improve, yes but they don't usually become strengths (unless you have an example I could be totally off base and using this as an excuse for my lagging body parts).
Ruhl trained for years, used various compounds yet his triceps weren't up to par with his biceps, which had excellent peaks. Same can be said about numerous dudes calves, they might have gotten bigger to do training/injections but there's obviously a limit or we would have guys coming onstage at a ripped 500 pounds.
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but there's obviously a limit or we would have guys coming onstage at a ripped 500 pounds.
Peptides. Somebody's gonna hit on the real-deal peptide and we will see 400 pound guys. It's gonna be awesome, in a vomit-inducing way.
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Peptides. Somebody's gonna hit on the real-deal peptide and we will see 400 pound guys. It's gonna be awesome, in a vomit-inducing way.
Lol had a friend say something similar about peptides (I'm not really sure what they are, just concentrated hormones).
I'm still waiting for the myostatin freaks to get serious about competition.
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Coco did.
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I think if you are weak in some muscle group thats genetics and they will never be on par with the rest of your physique.
FUCK OFF FUCKFACE . :)
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When I first started training, my whole body was a weak point.
130lbs in 1985, 215lbs in 2015.
We are very similar.
I'm 5'7, was 135-ish in late '87 - early '88 when I started training at 18. Have typically been 220-ish in recent years.
I brought up my back and chest greatly in my early to mid 20's.
I learned how to train back properly with basic exercises, heavy weights, proper form, and a fair amount of volume.
I brought my chest up by aligning my body properly so that my shoulders didn't do all the work.
My calves were like matchsticks at 18. I've put 5-6 inches on each of them, but they're still weak after over a quarter century of training.
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larry scott =delts, arnold calves...
Scott didn't have weak delts. They exploded when he started training. He was simply narrow. Just like Heath. No one said he has weak delts. He's just structurally narrow. And as I pointed out, Arnold, as he outlined in his book, developed his calves when he started training them after being inspired by Reg Park.
To talk about weak body parts from a bodybuilding perspective we are talking about advance bbers who have developed their entire body with some simply not responding like others. Dennis Wolf's calves is an obvious example. Massive all over except for calves.
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I doubt many naturals have ever gotten paste weak body parts
I have always had very small arms and they certainly never really ever gotten much bigger.
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We are very similar.
I'm 5'7, was 135-ish in late '87 - early '88 when I started training at 18. Have typically been 220-ish in recent years.
I brought up my back and chest greatly in my early to mid 20's.
I learned how to train back properly with basic exercises, heavy weights, proper form, and a fair amount of volume.
I brought my chest up by aligning my body properly so that my shoulders didn't do all the work.
My calves were like matchsticks at 18. I've put 5-6 inches on each of them, but they're still weak after over a quarter century of training.
Your calves are 24 inches?
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Scott didn't have weak delts. They exploded when he started training. He was simply narrow. Just like Heath. No one said he has weak delts. He's just structurally narrow. And as I pointed out, Arnold, as he outlined in his book, developed his calves when he started training them after being inspired by Reg Park.
To talk about weak body parts from a bodybuilding perspective we are talking about advance bbers who have developed their entire body with some simply not responding like others. Dennis Wolf's calves is an obvious example. Massive all over except for calves.
Dennis Wolf doesn't train calves.
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Pellius apparently brought his calves up. The 'after' is certainly impressive, but I never saw the 'before'... Just have to take his word about the progress.
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My hamstrings made night and day improvements after focusing my hamstring training around the High Incline Leg press, after reading a Greg Zulak article in Musclemag back in the late 80's about it. My quads and calves have always dominated, so was very pleased to find something that could get my hamstrings to respond where typical lying curls, deadlifts, etc gave me good strength gains, but not the balanced size I was hoping. I still do high incline leg presses for hamstrings to this day, but with much lighter weight (270 tops) and at a slow cadence, as my lower back is not like it was when I was 18. Best hamstring (and glute) exercise ever imo.
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Pellius apparently brought his calves up. The 'after' is certainly impressive, but I never saw the 'before'... Just have to take his word about the progress.
Think this was 'before.'
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Pellius apparently brought his calves up. The 'after' is certainly impressive, but I never saw the 'before'... Just have to take his word about the progress.
There's a "before" pic on the thread on IronAge. I was banned from that board a while ago but if anyone has access to that board just search mtwain and the thread should pop up. They started out at just below 13 inches but I got to them to about 16. They're not huge calves but because the rest of me are all weak points they stand out more. I never really responded dramatically to resistance training.
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Your calves are 24 inches?
My calves were like matchsticks at 18 years old.
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Think this was 'before.'
all drugs.
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Over the past few years I've brought my back up from a weak point to a strong point...all due to how I was training...started doing just the basics and foregoing all the machines. Pullups (weighted at times) barbell rows, deadlifts, pulldowns...I started doing 2 days of back every week instead of 1 day...the first day was heavy and overhand grip, the second day was light and underhand grip on all the same exercises (except deadlifts, on the second day i replaced them with another back movement)...
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My calves were like matchsticks at 18 years old.
Evander Holyfield, at 214 lbs had QUADS that measured 22 inches. Arnold, who had the best developed calves during his era, measured at around 20 inches (though all bber's measurements and weights are over stated)
http://slam.canoe.ca/BoxingHolyfieldMoorer/tale_ofthe_tape.html
Please post a pic of your 24 inch calves. Never seen them that big.
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He's not saying they are 24 inches.
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BTW I remember your dictionary calves thread. I was inspired but your technique didn't work for me.
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Evander Holyfield, at 214 lbs had QUADS that measured 22 inches. Arnold, who had the best developed calves during his era, measured at around 20 inches (though all bber's measurements and weights are over stated)
http://slam.canoe.ca/BoxingHolyfieldMoorer/tale_ofthe_tape.html
Please post a pic of your 24 inch calves. Never seen them that big.
You're getting confused. You thought his age was his calves measurement.
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Evander Holyfield, at 214 lbs had QUADS that measured 22 inches. Arnold, who had the best developed calves during his era, measured at around 20 inches (though all bber's measurements and weights are over stated)
http://slam.canoe.ca/BoxingHolyfieldMoorer/tale_ofthe_tape.html
Please post a pic of your 24 inch calves. Never seen them that big.
When I was 18 years old, my calves were like matchsticks.
THEY WERE NOWHERE NEAR 18 INCHES!
They're NOT ANYWHERE NEAR 24 INCHES!
Much of their growth came from my whole body getting much bigger. They're still pretty shitty, just somewhat bigger than the matchsticks they were when I was 18 years old.
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When I was 18 years old, my calves were like matchsticks.
THEY WERE NOWHERE NEAR 18 INCHES!
They're NOT ANYWHERE NEAR 24 INCHES!
Much of their growth came from my whole body getting much bigger. They're still pretty shitty, just somewhat bigger than the matchsticks they were when I was 18 years old.
LOL. In that case nevermind.
Still 5+ inches is incredible progress. Mine was a bit under 13 inches and they are about 16 now but those 3 inches made a huge difference. I went from people expressing sorrow for me since I obviously looked like I had polio to actually getting compliments every now again.
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Yours look great.
Mine don't look that good - they're still pretty shitty from the front. I went from a skinny little runt with matchstick calves at 18 years old to a stocky cornfed mofo with near 17" cankles over a couple of decades. Calves were probably 11-ish then, they're just under 17" now. Arms probably 13-ish then, now just under 18".
My quads and torso are big and well-developed, calves and arms are still pretty weak.